Re: [swinog] open source illusions

[Marco Fretz]

Tonnerre Lombard wrote:
> Salut, Per,
> 
> On Tue, 07 Oct 2008 15:41:47 +0200, Per Jessen wrote:
>> I am 99% an open source _user_, and I have only written very few
>> patches.  Which proves my point, I think. 
> 
> So let me summarize. The fact that we all can fix things and only a few
> people do it means that the argument of being able to fix things is a
> weak argument. The fact that we all can prove the source code and
> _noone_ does it makes it a strong point.
> 
> Thanks for enlightening me.

I've nothing further to say :-)

> 
>   Tonnerre
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [swinog] Embedded Linux practicing

[julien mabillard]

There was an interesting project compiling mobile technologies
applied in Japan with NetBSD: Nemo[1]

[1] http://2007.asiabsdcon.org/papers/P01-paper.pdf

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Re: [swinog] IRC Server dead ?

[Stanislav Sinyagin]

> From: Andre Timmermann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

> Am Mittwoch, den 08.10.2008, 03:55 -0700 schrieb Stanislav Sinyagin:
> > yes, Venty, everyone wants to know what you talk about in your 
> > private communications.
> 
> Yihaaa, the *ng "I don't have anything to hide"-statement.

nope, it's the other thing: If I need to hide something, I use the right tools 
:)

so, if I go once and buy 1000 paper knives, I will not pay by my plastic card 
and won't use any Supercard or Cumulus :-)
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Re: [swinog] IRC Server dead ?

[Andre Timmermann]

Am Mittwoch, den 08.10.2008, 03:55 -0700 schrieb Stanislav Sinyagin:
> yes, Venty, everyone wants to know what you talk about in your 
> private communications.

Yihaaa, the *ng "I don't have anything to hide"-statement.


-- 
Mit freundlichen Grüssen

Andre Timmermann
Nine Internet Solutions AG, Albisriederstr. 243c, CH-8047 Zuerich
Tel +41 44 637 40 00 | Direkt +41 44 637 40 06 | Fax +41 44 637 40 01

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Re: [swinog] IRC Server dead ?

[Martin Ebnoether]

On the Tue, Oct 07, 2008 at 10:54:49PM +0200, Ihsan Dogan blubbered:

Hallo.

> > Skype is like MSN Messenger, just another ugly overloaded communication
> > tool. if I have to choose between skype and MSN, it's MSN, because there
> > are a lot of opensource and freeware alternatives to the bad Live
> > Messenger from Microschrott, ah Microsoft... :-)
> 
> Well, it might be ugly, but at least it works in almost every situation.

If it would not, they could not sniff into other peoples private
communications.

CU, Venty

-- 
What we're planning here is World Domination!

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Re: [swinog] IRC Server dead ?

[Robert.Guentensperger]

You're right!
Some (!) paranoia is not too bad.

Cheers
Günti


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rainer Duffner] 
IRC Server dead ?

http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog
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Re: [swinog] IRC Server dead ?

[Stanislav Sinyagin]

yes, Venty, everyone wants to know what you talk about in your 
private communications.

don't be silly, just use it as any other public communication platform, 
be it Gmail or internet forums. If you need to transport sensitive data, use 
secure channels for it. If you need to communicate to few hundred of your 
contacts, 
there's not much alternative, because most of them use skype anyway.





- Original Message 
> From: Martin Ebnoether <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

> > > Skype is like MSN Messenger, just another ugly overloaded communication
> > > tool. if I have to choose between skype and MSN, it's MSN, because there
> > > are a lot of opensource and freeware alternatives to the bad Live
> > > Messenger from Microschrott, ah Microsoft... :-)
> > 
> > Well, it might be ugly, but at least it works in almost every situation.
> 
> If it would not, they could not sniff into other peoples private
> communications.
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Re: [swinog] IRC Server dead ?

[Rainer Duffner]

Stanislav Sinyagin schrieb:
>> From: Andre Timmermann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> 
>
>   
>> Am Mittwoch, den 08.10.2008, 03:55 -0700 schrieb Stanislav Sinyagin:
>> 
>>> yes, Venty, everyone wants to know what you talk about in your 
>>> private communications.
>>>   
>> Yihaaa, the *ng "I don't have anything to hide"-statement.
>> 
>
> nope, it's the other thing: If I need to hide something, I use the right 
> tools :)
>
> so, if I go once and buy 1000 paper knives, I will not pay by my plastic card 
> and won't use any Supercard or Cumulus :-)
>   


Well, in the former GDR (DDR, East Germany), when they had elections,
people could use the polling booth to mark the ballot paper in privacy.
But most people choose not to - it looked too much as if they had
something to hide and might want to vote with "No" (GDR was "famous for
99.9%" results.

What people don't seem to "get" is that privacy is something you've got
to maintain while you don't really need it - because if you let it erode
to the point that it no longer exists, it's too late and you can't
reclaim it without large and painful sacrifices.




Rainer


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Re: [swinog] IRC Server dead ?

[Marco Fretz]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> i was requesting twice on _http://www.warmduscher-
> abc.ch/warmduscher_abc.asp_
>   
> 
> to add the term "Skype-Benutzer"
> 
> but as the maintainer seems to be an skype fan it getting ignored

try it again :D

> 
> Roger
> 
> 
> 
> Am 7 Oct 2008 um 9:32 hat Marco Fretz geschrieben:
> 
>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>> > IRC is cool - IRC is a geek tool ,-))
>> > skype is something for "warmduscher" (well, i've got an account since
> 2 days...) ,-))
>>
>> yes, IRC is old-school. it's just great, coding own bots, irc clients,
>> etc... lot of possibilities.
>>
>> Skype is like MSN Messenger, just another ugly overloaded communication
>> tool. if I have to choose between skype and MSN, it's MSN, because there
>> are a lot of opensource and freeware alternatives to the bad Live
>> Messenger from Microschrott, ah Microsoft... :-)
>>
>> >
>> > -steven
>> >
>> > -Original Message-
>> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Stanislav Sinyagin
>> > Sent: Monday, October 06, 2008 4:02 PM
>> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> > Subject: Re: [swinog] IRC Server dead ?
>> >
>> > why doesn't someone create a public Skype chat for SwiNOG?
>> > I think more people on this list have skype than IRC client software
> (me, for example :-)
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > - Original Message 
>> >> From: Boris Meyer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> >> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> >> Sent: Monday, October 6, 2008 3:51:20 PM
>> >> Subject: Re: [swinog] IRC Server dead ?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> PS: The actual list of all available servers is listed at:
>> >> http://irc.subcult.ch
>> >>> As a result of a DDoS against the SwissIX IP-Range the prefix of
>> >>> SwissIX is at the moment only reachable by its peers.
>> >>>
>> >>> We are working towards bringing the irc-server back online. But in
>> >>> the mean time eiher use another server of the mesh or have a
>> >>> SwissIX-connected ISP ;).
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >> ___
>> >> swinog mailing list
>> >> swinog@lists.swinog.ch
>> >> http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog
>> >
>> > ___
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>> > http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog
>> > ___
>> > swinog mailing list
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>> > http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog
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>>
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [swinog] IRC Server dead ?

[Marco Fretz]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> i was requesting twice on _http://www.warmduscher-
> abc.ch/warmduscher_abc.asp_
>   
> 
> to add the term "Skype-Benutzer"
> 
> but as the maintainer seems to be an skype fan it getting ignored

I cant add it:

Microsoft JET Database Engine error '80040e57'

The field is too small to accept the amount of data you attempted to
add. Try inserting or pasting less data.

/warmduscher_melden.asp, line 125

haha :D

> 
> Roger
> 
> 
> 
> Am 7 Oct 2008 um 9:32 hat Marco Fretz geschrieben:
> 
>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>> > IRC is cool - IRC is a geek tool ,-))
>> > skype is something for "warmduscher" (well, i've got an account since
> 2 days...) ,-))
>>
>> yes, IRC is old-school. it's just great, coding own bots, irc clients,
>> etc... lot of possibilities.
>>
>> Skype is like MSN Messenger, just another ugly overloaded communication
>> tool. if I have to choose between skype and MSN, it's MSN, because there
>> are a lot of opensource and freeware alternatives to the bad Live
>> Messenger from Microschrott, ah Microsoft... :-)
>>
>> >
>> > -steven
>> >
>> > -Original Message-
>> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Stanislav Sinyagin
>> > Sent: Monday, October 06, 2008 4:02 PM
>> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> > Subject: Re: [swinog] IRC Server dead ?
>> >
>> > why doesn't someone create a public Skype chat for SwiNOG?
>> > I think more people on this list have skype than IRC client software
> (me, for example :-)
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > - Original Message 
>> >> From: Boris Meyer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> >> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> >> Sent: Monday, October 6, 2008 3:51:20 PM
>> >> Subject: Re: [swinog] IRC Server dead ?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> PS: The actual list of all available servers is listed at:
>> >> http://irc.subcult.ch
>> >>> As a result of a DDoS against the SwissIX IP-Range the prefix of
>> >>> SwissIX is at the moment only reachable by its peers.
>> >>>
>> >>> We are working towards bringing the irc-server back online. But in
>> >>> the mean time eiher use another server of the mesh or have a
>> >>> SwissIX-connected ISP ;).
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >> ___
>> >> swinog mailing list
>> >> swinog@lists.swinog.ch
>> >> http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog
>> >
>> > ___
>> > swinog mailing list
>> > swinog@lists.swinog.ch
>> > http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog
>> > ___
>> > swinog mailing list
>> > swinog@lists.swinog.ch
>> > http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog
>> ___
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>>
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [swinog] IRC Server dead ?

[Tonnerre Lombard]

Salut, Stanislav,

On Wed, 8 Oct 2008 04:17:13 -0700 (PDT), Stanislav Sinyagin wrote:
> nope, it's the other thing: If I need to hide something, I use the
> right tools :)
> 
> so, if I go once and buy 1000 paper knives, I will not pay by my
> plastic card and won't use any Supercard or Cumulus :-)

Thing is, you never know what you should have hidden last summer.
Austria was once already this close to getting Haider into their
government. Now imagine him as the minister of the Interior, sitting on
all the data. And now it's not too unlikely to happen, again.

The laws of data protection define a necessity of "Datensparsamkeit".
Under any possible condition, this is a code of practice which does not
harm but it does help you a lot in some situations. The fact that
people exercising this code of practice are already regraded as
suspects should not prevent us from following it.

Tonnerre



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Re: [swinog] Hot Red Flames (Was: IRC Server dead ?)

[roger]

maybe your not aware but skype is a p2p tool, servers just exists for the 
directory, or the gates .. so wiretapping is just possible on the gate while 
calling a PSTN partitiant. but as we allready heard most using skype, the 
possibility of badmans communication will stay P2P

to confuse the wiretapping system, say in every conversation a bunch of 
triggerwords like: C4, bomb, nuclear, gaz, dynamite, cäsium, blow up... or 
whatever getting in your mind.

Roger

Am 8 Oct 2008 um 7:15 hat Peter Keel geschrieben:

> * on the Mon, Oct 06, 2008 at 06:50:54PM +0200, Jeroen Massar wrote:
> > > I've done too much cmputer security, and now I've got a
> > > déformation professionelle. I won't use closed software
> > > for anything crucial like "communication";
> > 
> > You don't use Cisco's or Junipers? How do you use the Internet actually?
> 
> It's a very different matter if a client is wired to use some specific 
> server of some company to initiate communication, and uses a closed 
> protocol too. For all I know this is like re-routing my communication
> trough skypes servers so they can wiretap it.
> 
> Cheers
> Seegras
> -- 
> "Those who give up essential liberties for temporary safety deserve 
> neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin
> "It's also true that those who would give up privacy for security are 
> likely to end up with neither." -- Bruce Schneier
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Re: [swinog] IRC Server dead ?

[Chris Gravell]

SwiNOG is for Network Operator discussions and nothing else. The last few
days have irritated me. Please keep such silly discussions off the email
list.


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[swinog] Forgotten topic (was: IRC Server dead ?)

[Daniel Kamm]

Hey guys

On Mon, 2008-10-06 at 13:17 +0200, Roman Hochuli wrote:
> As a result of a DDoS against the SwissIX IP-Range the prefix of
> SwissIX
> is at the moment only reachable by its peers.

This huge flame war is irritating me. What's up with this DDoS and the
shut-down peerings? Please inform about that issue, rather than flaming
around on closed or open source practices...

Greez from croatian holidays
 - Dan

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Re: [swinog] IRC Server dead ?

[Tonnerre Lombard]

Salut, Chris,

On Wed, 08 Oct 2008 17:10:13 +0200, Chris Gravell wrote:
> SwiNOG is for Network Operator discussions and nothing else. The last
> few days have irritated me. Please keep such silly discussions off
> the email list.

While I agree that Skype and Open vs. Closed source is off-topic (hi
ylz), I think data protection is not really. But maybe that time is
over too.

Tonnerre


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Re: [swinog] IRC Server dead ?

[roger]

at least it prooved the ML is still alive, and not so slow as some mentioned ;-
)

we got  3 days nanog feeling, who cares ?
if someone like an idling list.. we maybe could create [EMAIL PROTECTED], and 
to make shure there is no accidentaly traffic setting this list to moderated
this would be even helpfull for all the autoresponder fan's

Roger



Roger 

> Salut, Chris,
> 
> On Wed, 08 Oct 2008 17:10:13 +0200, Chris Gravell wrote:
> > SwiNOG is for Network Operator discussions and nothing else. The last
> > few days have irritated me. Please keep such silly discussions off
> > the email list.
> 
> While I agree that Skype and Open vs. Closed source is off-topic (hi
> ylz), I think data protection is not really. But maybe that time is
> over too.
> 
>   Tonnerre
> 


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Re: [swinog] IRC Server dead ?

[Scott Weeks]

--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

at least it prooved the ML is still alive, and not so slow as some mentioned ;-)

we got  3 days nanog feeling, who cares ?
if someone like an idling list.. we maybe could create [EMAIL PROTECTED], and 
to make shure there is no accidentaly traffic setting this list to moderated
this would be even helpfull for all the autoresponder fan's
-



I enjoyed reading it all.  It put a smile on my face several times.  

One day, I want to do a beer event with you guys, but since it's 12,277 
kilometers (7628 miles) there:

http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/distanceresult.html?p1=103&p2=268

It'll probably be a very long time until that happens...  ;-)

scott

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