RE: t-and-f: Talking tough

[Andre Sammartino]

Jai's a bit "out there" generally, and it is fair to say, he takes
liberties even with Australian-English...

Even as a native-speaker, i can only hazard a guess and suggest he means
they are babies... or that they tend to spill their beers (a much bigger
insult downunder)...

Look out for "Jumping Jai" at the Games (if the event/sport gets any
coverage up there).  He's a very extroverted character, tattoos aplenty,
long hair, smokes like a chimney. At the recent trials he opening with a
terrible 7.80m or so jump (25 and a half feet?) but jumped around as if
he'd broken the world record... asked why... he said he just wanted to wake
up the crowd...   


>> In a message dated 8/29/00 17:43:02, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> writes:
>>
>> << "They only jump big in America, and these guys, these three guys, are a
>> bunch of dribblers, that's all I'm saying. >>
>>
>> i give up, what's a dribbler? Malmo, where's that Excel Strine-to-English
>> conversion chart? :-)
>>
>> gh

Reckon you know your stuff?
Come try our Olympics track and field tipping comp 
http://surf.to/bayside

t-and-f: Field Event Distance Conversion

[Shawn Sorenson]

Everyone,

Call me crazy, but what the heck are people talking about with regard to an
adjusted algorithm to take measurement factors into account?

Every meet worldwide, with the exception of some non-championship,
relatively unimportant, and certainly not reported to this list meets I've
been to at the high school level, measures distances in metric units,
rounded to the nearest 0.01m.  These are the official distances, and that's
what matters for determining who wins, and for record purposes.  The only
motivation for expressing such a distance in feet and inches is to relate
the distances for those who don't have an intuitive feel for the metric,
unless some old records measured in feet and inches still stand (do they?).

If the official distance is in metric, then it's irrelevant what the
official distance would have been, had it been measured in the imperial
system.  To this end, any "algorithm" capable of converting metric to feet
and inches, and rounding to the nearest 1/4 inch, is entirely appropriate.
Whether or not it matches T&FN's adjusted algorithm is irrelevant, because
the distance was measured in meters.

I have a very simple program on my calculator that does conversions for me
when I'm at a meet, and otherwise I use a windows program that I wrote,
available at:

http://www.owlnet.rice.edu/~riceroo/met-eng2.exe

I'd be happy to share either.

Shawn Sorenson
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: t-and-f: Re: where are all the world records?

[Conway]

On Tuesday, August 29, 2000 9:26 PM "Kurt Bray" said:
Subject: Re: t-and-f: Re: where are all the world records?


> The situations are not comparable.  Ben Johnson was found guilty of
> cheating, so he and his marks were disqualified.  The public certainly
> understands and accepts that and rightly forgets about Ben.  But is that
> what we are proposing to do?  To wipe out all the old records by declaring
> them tainted and the athletes cheaters?


Why not !! What is one of the biggest image problems of hte sport today for
Mr John Q Public ?? The idea that everyone in the sport is using drugs ..
And what do mostt of us in the know know about the sport and its records ??
That a large majority of them have been tainted by the use of drugs .. If we
just take what we know from recorded fact regarding the height of the
Eastern Bloc there go half the records in one fell swoop .. So why not tell
MR Public "Hey look" .. We know there's been a problem .. So we're
increasing our testing efforts and re-establishing the benchmark so as to be
fair to all !! For the next few years record breaking will be at an all time
high and hopefully so will the interest of Mr Public ...

> >  When was the last time you read that Uwe Hohn is stll the "real" WR
> holder in
> >  the javelin?
>
>
> Again, not a valid comparison because in this case they changed the
> implement.  The event was significantly changed such that the marks are
not
> directly comparable.  The equivalent change in the 100m would be to
lengthen
> it to 110m or shorten it to 90m and then start keeping new records.  In
that
> case people probably would forget about Maurice Greene after a while.  But
> as long as it stayed 100m, and Greene was not discredited in some way, a
new
> "world record" of say 9.89 would always cause many people to say: "Yeah,
but
> what about Mo?".

I don't think anyone in the general public has a clue about implement
changes .. Heck it takes quite a while for many in the sport to get a clue
.. Do you think many sprinters or distance runners can tell you about any
implement changes to field events ?? I'll give you another example ..
Decathlon and Heptathlon scoring tables .. When they have been changed (and
correspondingly the records) who knew or cared outside of the athletes and
coaches that were affected ?? And in the case of "yeah but what about MO",
in order to make that comparison one would have to know what the actual
records were prior to .. And John Q doesn't follow them that closely .. Mr
Public doesn't know (or care) what the actual marks are .. He just wants to
know for comparisons sake whether or not someone is close to or exceeding
them .. I think too often we transfer our need to know the minutiae of the
sport along to Mr Public who just wants to know if he is watching quality
competition .. And his only benchmark is records (since he isn't paying as
close attention as he would to say baseball or football) ..

Conway Hill
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: t-and-f: Gateshead 4x1

[Jason L Bunston]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> What possibly can we expect in Sydney?
> Cold, wet, rainy, and fast.

When my family left OZ in 1982 I remember it snowing second week of August
on the western (inland) outskirts of Sydney (Chatswood).

But the sea is very warm!! Surf's up.
___
 Jason Bunston
 ICQ  22474747
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 http://webhome.idirect.com/~jbunston
___

t-and-f: Writers needed.

[Flowman21]

Schiefer here. 
I'm getting ready to boost up TNFmedia.com's internet presence.  I need 
writers, both interns, and I can actually pay a little of money now.  

Obviously, for payment, it would have to be a pretty significant piece, or a 
series of pieces.


For some of you younger guys who need intern work, I will be happy to take a 
look at your meet coverages, editorials, etc.

Please contact me for more information.


John Schiefer
tnfmedia.com

Re: t-and-f: Re: where are all the world records?

[Kurt Bray]

On Tue, 29 Aug 2000 22:38:25 EDT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  
>  I think Conway Hill's previous post about the Ben Johnson situation puts
the 
>  lie to it. It was mentioned awhile, but given the level of attention the 
>  media in general gives track it only takes a year or so before you have 
>  somebody writing the sport who has never even heard of the existing 
>  recordholder, let alone someone who preceded him.
>

The situations are not comparable.  Ben Johnson was found guilty of
cheating, so he and his marks were disqualified.  The public certainly
understands and accepts that and rightly forgets about Ben.  But is that
what we are proposing to do?  To wipe out all the old records by declaring
them tainted and the athletes cheaters?  

I was under the impression that the 20th century records were to be given
some sort of graceful retirement and start over again keeping new records,
arbitrarily coinciding with the new century.  In such a situation the old
record would retain all its validity in the minds of many, probably most,
people.


  
>  When was the last time you read that Uwe Hohn is stll the "real" WR
holder in 
>  the javelin?


Again, not a valid comparison because in this case they changed the
implement.  The event was significantly changed such that the marks are not
directly comparable.  The equivalent change in the 100m would be to lengthen
it to 110m or shorten it to 90m and then start keeping new records.  In that
case people probably would forget about Maurice Greene after a while.  But
as long as it stayed 100m, and Greene was not discredited in some way, a new
"world record" of say 9.89 would always cause many people to say: "Yeah, but
what about Mo?".

Kurt Bray






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t-and-f: Fw: LIBBIE observations

[mike fanelli]

- Original Message -
From: mike fanelli <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Benji Durden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2000 9:48 PM
Subject: LIBBIE observations


> Following her stellar Gateshead 3000, iIt has been asked "why the big
> improvement??"
>
> Over a post race beer (or two or three) following Libbie's trials race,
> Damien Koch related that Libbie said she felt unresponsive and still had
> "marathon legs'" following the 10K finals... the rest of the week was
> dedicated to determining whether or not to come back in the 5...after much
> emotional wrangling, Libbie and Damien came to the conclusion that
> physically (and emotionally) it was best to celebrate her "victory" (i.e.
> making the team) and then focus on  regrouping and directing the focus on
> being the very best 10,000 meter runner she could be in Sydney. Libbie,
> usually a bundle of positive style, glass 3/4 full type energy, was in a
> noticeable  bummin' style funk following her trials 10K...by the time she
> left Sacto on that final Sunday evening, you could see that she was once
> again her affable self...with the assistance of Damien and an impressive
> support group, Libbie was obviously able to go back to the drawing board
and
> re-group in such a fashion that produced the result from Gateshead.
>
> One final thing to remember is that never before has Libbie done the early
> season build up that she did this year in prep for the dreaded SC Marathon
> Trials effort...in the past, she wouldn't run for weeks during the winter,
> choosing instead to race and train on x country skis in and around Ft
> Collins, Colorado...while her mechanics may not belie that of a pure
> marathoner, get her on a flat fast course (one that resembles the track)
and
> Libbie is destined to shine shine shine...
>
> While sporting a modest 10K best of 31:41, Libbie's 3000 fitness indicates
a
> time sub 31:20...under the right conditions, it is feasible to see her
> knocking on that 31 flat door...very cool to see yet another US
middle/long
> distance runner "beaking through" post Sacto trials.
>
> prayin for a 25 lap tailwind,
> Mike Fanelli
>
>
> -Mike
>
>
> - Original Message -
> From: Benji Durden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: t&f list <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2000 3:31 PM
> Subject: Re: t-and-f: BIG PR for LIBBIE
>
>
> > Damien, Libbie's coach says she has been training with Jon Sinclair (he
is
> > in 15:00 sea-level 5k shape or better) so she is getting help in her
> > workouts. He didn't say much else on the voice mail message Running
Stats
> > got.
> >
> > bd
> > --
> > Benji Durden
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Anyone know why Libbie got such a big PR? Did she say?
> > > Tom D.
> >
>
>

Re: t-and-f: Gateshead 4x1

[WillyBeaman]

HSI has officially gone sub 38!!!  Only the second team to do such.  Oops, sorry, I 
mean the US has already gone sub 38 for the year.  What possibly can we expect in 
Sydney?
Cold, wet, rainy, and fast.

Re: t-and-f: High-Low

[Jason Michael Blank]

On Tue, 29 Aug 2000, John Lunn wrote:

> Trackos,
> Does anyone know if we have any Olympic team members, from the 1500m
> up, who used the "high-low" model for training. I know the obvious
> runners who trained at altitude. I'm not aware of any runners who went
> to low altitude for speed work before trials.
> Thanks!
> John

  Curt Clausen (and the other male walkers?) have been using the hypoxic
tent, which is supposed to duplicate high-low training.

Jason

___
Jason BlankHopkins Marine Station
Enloe HS '92, Duke '96, Stanford ??  Oceanview Boulevard
[EMAIL PROTECTED] Pacific Grove, CA 93950

"I would prefer the Trinidad government to do something really grand 
  in my name.  I'd like them to build maybe three or four tracks with
   indoor facilities for the kids to enjoy. . . and I'd like Tobago."
 --  Ato Boldon of Trinidad, on his hopes for Olympic Gold
___

RE: t-and-f: Talking tough

[malmo]

Dribbler? H. Could be the work of an over-zealous fluffer.

Copy the text "They only jump big in America, and these guys, these three
guys, are a bunch of dribblers, that's all I'm saying." and insert it to the
text field at:

http://www.rinkworks.com/dialect/

Then select the appropriate dialect and a translation will be returned from
your query.

malmo


>
> In a message dated 8/29/00 17:43:02, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> writes:
>
> << "They only jump big in America, and these guys, these three guys, are a
> bunch of dribblers, that's all I'm saying. >>
>
> i give up, what's a dribbler? Malmo, where's that Excel Strine-to-English
> conversion chart? :-)
>
> gh
>

Re: t-and-f: millennium WRs

[R.T.]

On Tue, 29 Aug 2000 22:41:35 EDT, you wrote:

>
>In a message dated 8/29/00 18:48:54, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>
><< For stat lovers, this coming year would be the best time to wipe out 
>the existing records, because after all, the new millennium doesn't 
>begin until Jan 1, 2001 >>
>
>a millenium is a period (any period) of 1000 years. For 99% of the populace, 
>we're now talking about the 1000 years that begin with a 2.
>
>gh

Call it anything you want, but I don't wanta go through Y2K all over again !!!

RT

Re: t-and-f: Talking tough

[GHTFNedit]

In a message dated 8/29/00 17:43:02, [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

<< "They only jump big in America, and these guys, these three guys, are a
bunch of dribblers, that's all I'm saying. >>

i give up, what's a dribbler? Malmo, where's that Excel Strine-to-English 
conversion chart? :-)

gh

Re: t-and-f: millennium WRs

[GHTFNedit]

In a message dated 8/29/00 18:48:54, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

<< For stat lovers, this coming year would be the best time to wipe out 
the existing records, because after all, the new millennium doesn't 
begin until Jan 1, 2001 >>

a millenium is a period (any period) of 1000 years. For 99% of the populace, 
we're now talking about the 1000 years that begin with a 2.

gh

Re: t-and-f: Re: where are all the world records?

[GHTFNedit]

In a message dated 8/29/00 17:34:23, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

<< 
It wouldn't be that clean with the general public.  And the reason is the
news media.  Until the old record was exceeded, EVERY news story about some
new WR would contain a "However":   >>

I think Conway Hill's previous post about the Ben Johnson situation puts the 
lie to it. It was mentioned awhile, but given the level of attention the 
media in general gives track it only takes a year or so before you have 
somebody writing the sport who has never even heard of the existing 
recordholder, let alone someone who preceded him.

When was the last time you read that Uwe Hohn is stll the "real" WR holder in 
the javelin?

gh

t-and-f: millennium WRs

[Jack Pfeifer]

For stat lovers, this coming year would be the best time to wipe out 
the existing records, because after all, the new millennium doesn't 
begin until Jan 1, 2001
JP

t-and-f: HOMEMADE METRIC PERVERSION CALCULATORS

[malmo]

A word from our TECHNICAL STAFF (me).

Apparently, at the point at the right margin where my (yours too?) e-mail
client (Outlook) wraps the text to the next line a space is inserted go to
the end of each line of the formula and delete the space - causing part of
the lower line of text to join - then do the same thing with the next line.
Cut and paste, insert the formula in the Excel spreadsheet and you're on
your way.

If that fails then just type in the formula manually - it works.



FIXED(ROUNDDOWN(+A2*100*0.3937/12,0),0)&"'"&FIXED(ROUNDDOWN(+A2*100*0.3937,0
)-(ROUNDDOWN(+A2*100*0.3937/12,0)*12),0)&IF(+A2<25,CHOOSE(ROUNDDOWN(((+A2*10
0*0.3937)-ROUNDDOWN(+A2*100*0.3937,0))*4,0)+1,"","¼","½","¾"),"")&

"Is that your final answer, malmo?"

"Yes, Regis, that is your final answer."

malmo




>
> Sorry folks, I don't know why the formula didn't work the first
> time. If it
> doesn't this time then don't cut-and-paste into the excel formula cell -
> enter the formula by hand - it will work!
>
>
> FIXED(ROUNDDOWN(+A2*100*0.3937/12,0),0)&"'"&FIXED(ROUNDDOWN(+A2*10
> 0*0.3937,0)-(ROUNDDOWN(+A2*100*0.3937/12,0)*12),0)&IF(+A2<25,CHOOS
> E(ROUNDDOWN(((+A2*100*0.3937)-ROUNDDOWN(+A2*100*0.3937,0))*4,0)+1,
> "","¼","½","¾"),"")&
>
>
>
> >
> > http://www.planet.net/paheyd/UnitConverter.html
> >
> > These conversion calculators fail in that they convert to decimal
> > feet only,
> > which any third-grader can do.
> >
> > It takes a little patience, but an EXCEL spreadsheet can easily
> be created
> > to convert meters in to feet/inches/fractions.
> >
> > There are easier and cleaner ways to use Excel formula syntax to
> > accommodate
> > the conversion, but here is a formula that works. Make sure that
> > you [1]copy
> > and paste the entire formula into the "Answer cell", [2] change
> > the "target
> > cell", in this case "A2", to the cell address that you intend to
> > insert the
> > metric distance. [3] It's a good idea to apply "protection" to
> your METRIC
> > PERVERSION CALCULATOR, so to prevent an inadvertent deactivation!
> >
> > THE FORMULA:
> >
> > =FIXED(ROUNDDOWN(+A2*100*0.3937/12,0),0)&"'"&FIXED(ROUNDDOWN(+A2*1
> > 00*0.3937,
> > 0)-(ROUNDDOWN(+A2*100*0.3937/12,0)*12),0)&IF(+A2<25,CHOOSE(ROUNDDO
> > WN(((+A2*1
> > 00*0.3937)-ROUNDDOWN(+A2*100*0.3937,0))*4,0)+1,"","¼","½","¾"),"")&
> >
> > Geek-out everyone!!!
> >
> > malmo
> >
> >
> > > Somewhere, I have a spreadsheet that takes into account the
> > > algorithms.  Not
> > > only that, but it does all three different metric-to-English
> conversions
> > > (different formulas are used for vertical jumps, horizontal
> > > measurements, and
> > > long throws).  If anybody is interested in this, let me know, and
> > > I'll try to
> > > dig it up.  It was in Excel, so I should be able to find it -
> > but it's at
> > > home and I'm not.  I haven't used it since the Atlanta Olympics,
> > > but it came
> > > in very handy.
> > >
> > > -- Howard Willman
> > >
> > > In a message dated 8/29/00 2:31:56 PM Central Daylight Time,
> > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> > >
> > > << not trying to sell books, but note that BGB  (and other track event
> > >  conversion systems) do not use a pure mathematical conversion;
> > > there's an
> > >  algorithm which takes into account the fact that the metric mark
> > > is not an
> > >  exact measujrement to begin with, so you're dealing with some
> > > probability.
> > >  (actually, it's algorithms, plural, since the vertical jumps are
> > > calculated
> > >  differently)
> > >
> > >  pure math will from time to time yield English conversions which
> > > don't agree
> > >  with those found in either T&FN or the FAST annuals (or the
> > > ATFS, back when
> > >  it carried both).
> > >
> > >  gh
> > >   >>
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

t-and-f: nbc says: track fans are "weenies"

[Erik Palmer]

Check out this article regarding NBC's collaboration with Quokka
to produce nbcolympics.com:
http://www.upside.com/News/39a5c5670.html

Second most interesting comment to me:
"If the TV experience was for family and fans, then this was a level of
coverage that could connect to the fanatics," according to NBC VP Dick
Ebersol.

Which I interpret as meaning that we won't be seeing adequate coverage of
Olympic track on U.S. network TV in our lifetime; NBC will rationalize
skimpy coverage of non-glamour events by relegating those events to the
website.

happy trails,
ep


__
Erik Palmer
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.trackwire.com

RE: t-and-f: HOMEMADE METRIC PERVERSION CALCULATORS

[malmo]

Sorry folks, I don't know why the formula didn't work the first time. If it
doesn't this time then don't cut-and-paste into the excel formula cell -
enter the formula by hand - it will work!


FIXED(ROUNDDOWN(+A2*100*0.3937/12,0),0)&"'"&FIXED(ROUNDDOWN(+A2*100*0.3937,0
)-(ROUNDDOWN(+A2*100*0.3937/12,0)*12),0)&IF(+A2<25,CHOOSE(ROUNDDOWN(((+A2*10
0*0.3937)-ROUNDDOWN(+A2*100*0.3937,0))*4,0)+1,"","¼","½","¾"),"")&



>
> http://www.planet.net/paheyd/UnitConverter.html
>
> These conversion calculators fail in that they convert to decimal
> feet only,
> which any third-grader can do.
>
> It takes a little patience, but an EXCEL spreadsheet can easily be created
> to convert meters in to feet/inches/fractions.
>
> There are easier and cleaner ways to use Excel formula syntax to
> accommodate
> the conversion, but here is a formula that works. Make sure that
> you [1]copy
> and paste the entire formula into the "Answer cell", [2] change
> the "target
> cell", in this case "A2", to the cell address that you intend to
> insert the
> metric distance. [3] It's a good idea to apply "protection" to your METRIC
> PERVERSION CALCULATOR, so to prevent an inadvertent deactivation!
>
> THE FORMULA:
>
> =FIXED(ROUNDDOWN(+A2*100*0.3937/12,0),0)&"'"&FIXED(ROUNDDOWN(+A2*1
> 00*0.3937,
> 0)-(ROUNDDOWN(+A2*100*0.3937/12,0)*12),0)&IF(+A2<25,CHOOSE(ROUNDDO
> WN(((+A2*1
> 00*0.3937)-ROUNDDOWN(+A2*100*0.3937,0))*4,0)+1,"","¼","½","¾"),"")&
>
> Geek-out everyone!!!
>
> malmo
>
>
> > Somewhere, I have a spreadsheet that takes into account the
> > algorithms.  Not
> > only that, but it does all three different metric-to-English conversions
> > (different formulas are used for vertical jumps, horizontal
> > measurements, and
> > long throws).  If anybody is interested in this, let me know, and
> > I'll try to
> > dig it up.  It was in Excel, so I should be able to find it -
> but it's at
> > home and I'm not.  I haven't used it since the Atlanta Olympics,
> > but it came
> > in very handy.
> >
> > -- Howard Willman
> >
> > In a message dated 8/29/00 2:31:56 PM Central Daylight Time,
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> >
> > << not trying to sell books, but note that BGB  (and other track event
> >  conversion systems) do not use a pure mathematical conversion;
> > there's an
> >  algorithm which takes into account the fact that the metric mark
> > is not an
> >  exact measujrement to begin with, so you're dealing with some
> > probability.
> >  (actually, it's algorithms, plural, since the vertical jumps are
> > calculated
> >  differently)
> >
> >  pure math will from time to time yield English conversions which
> > don't agree
> >  with those found in either T&FN or the FAST annuals (or the
> > ATFS, back when
> >  it carried both).
> >
> >  gh
> >   >>
> >
>
>

Re: t-and-f: Re: where are all the world records?

[Kurt Bray]

On Tue, 29 Aug 2000 19:19:26 EDT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  
>  the hard-core nuts would have had endless debates; the general public
would 
>  mindlessly embrace the new rash of recordbreaking, which is the whole
point.

It wouldn't be that clean with the general public.  And the reason is the
news media.  Until the old record was exceeded, EVERY news story about some
new WR would contain a "However":  

"However, Flossie Johnson's new 'world record' of 1:55.11 is still well
behind Kratochvilova's 20th century record of 1:54.68 set back 1983."

Kurt Bray





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t-and-f: Talking tough

[Andre Sammartino]

Australian long-jumper Jai Taurima (4th Seville) has been doing his own
trash-talking of late:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/sport/moreSport/2000/08/item2830100356_1.htm

Taurima talks tough ahead of Olympic long jump 

If confidence means anything, Australia will win a gold medal in the long
jump at the Sydney Olympics.

Commonwealth Games gold medallist Peter Burge and Australian record holder
Jai Taurima head the charge in an event not usually noted for its depth of
challenge.

Taurima believes, in the cooler conditions in Sydney, the Russians
represent more of a threat to Australia, winning gold, than the Americans.

"I think the Russians are the ones who are going to be the scare factor,"
he said.

"Americans are Americans aren't they?

"They only jump big in America, and these guys, these three guys, are a
bunch of dribblers, that's all I'm saying.


For the most arduous Olympics tipping comp going 'round come see us...
http://surf.to/bayside

Re: t-and-f: Re: where are all the world records?

[Conway]

On Tuesday, August 29, 2000 4:19 PM <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:

> those who would argue that new records would somehow contaminate the
sport's
> historical line ignore the fact that even if there had been no advances in
> training, technnology alone removed from reality some of the sport's
greatest
> heroes ever in an all-time list sense, and it didn't hurt their standing
one
> iota.
>
> synthetic tracks and runways, starting blocks, metal/fiberglass poles,
> aerodynamic javelins, concrete throwing circles (not many on the list will
> remember when shot putters wore spikes!), rim-weighted discs, foam rubber
> pits, etc., etc.
>
> We've found ways to make past recordholders obselete: why not do it in a
> major way? Because it would require the IAAF to admit that there was a
huge
> doping regimen on its watch and it had no choice but to ratify a lot of
> records that are from the realm of the unreal. (not that it has gone away)
>

And haven't we already seen the effects of this type of "wiping the records
clean" in the case of Ben Johnson ?? Ben took the 100 record from 9.93 to
9.83 and then 9.79 .. And then suddenly with the magic wand the record stood
at 9.92 (the time of a second place finisher on less) .. There was no hue
and cry as nary a person noticed or cared outside of the track community ..
And apparently it wasn't a big deal within the community either ... And the
athletes certainly didn't complain as they were again in reach of the mark
.. I do believe Carl Lewis, Leroy Burrell, Donovan Bailey and now Maurice
Greene have all been considered WR holders in the event with nary a question
about their credentials .. John Q Public doesn't care how the records came
to be .. They just want to know what they are and can anyone break them ..
The athletes only want to know what marks they have to aim at .. And we all
should be happy to witness top class competition - which occurs no matter
what the records are ...

Conway Hill
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

t-and-f: HOMEMADE METRIC PERVERSION CALCULATORS

[malmo]

http://www.planet.net/paheyd/UnitConverter.html

These conversion calculators fail in that they convert to decimal feet only,
which any third-grader can do.

It takes a little patience, but an EXCEL spreadsheet can easily be created
to convert meters in to feet/inches/fractions.

There are easier and cleaner ways to use Excel formula syntax to accommodate
the conversion, but here is a formula that works. Make sure that you [1]copy
and paste the entire formula into the "Answer cell", [2] change the "target
cell", in this case "A2", to the cell address that you intend to insert the
metric distance. [3] It's a good idea to apply "protection" to your METRIC
PERVERSION CALCULATOR, so to prevent an inadvertent deactivation!

THE FORMULA:

=FIXED(ROUNDDOWN(+A2*100*0.3937/12,0),0)&"'"&FIXED(ROUNDDOWN(+A2*100*0.3937,
0)-(ROUNDDOWN(+A2*100*0.3937/12,0)*12),0)&IF(+A2<25,CHOOSE(ROUNDDOWN(((+A2*1
00*0.3937)-ROUNDDOWN(+A2*100*0.3937,0))*4,0)+1,"","¼","½","¾"),"")&

Geek-out everyone!!!

malmo


> Somewhere, I have a spreadsheet that takes into account the
> algorithms.  Not
> only that, but it does all three different metric-to-English conversions
> (different formulas are used for vertical jumps, horizontal
> measurements, and
> long throws).  If anybody is interested in this, let me know, and
> I'll try to
> dig it up.  It was in Excel, so I should be able to find it - but it's at
> home and I'm not.  I haven't used it since the Atlanta Olympics,
> but it came
> in very handy.
>
> -- Howard Willman
>
> In a message dated 8/29/00 2:31:56 PM Central Daylight Time,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>
> << not trying to sell books, but note that BGB  (and other track event
>  conversion systems) do not use a pure mathematical conversion;
> there's an
>  algorithm which takes into account the fact that the metric mark
> is not an
>  exact measujrement to begin with, so you're dealing with some
> probability.
>  (actually, it's algorithms, plural, since the vertical jumps are
> calculated
>  differently)
>
>  pure math will from time to time yield English conversions which
> don't agree
>  with those found in either T&FN or the FAST annuals (or the
> ATFS, back when
>  it carried both).
>
>  gh
>   >>
>

Re: t-and-f: High-Low

[Michael Rohl]

Netters

john asked:

> Does anyone know if we have any Olympic team members, from the 1500m up,
> who used the "high-low" model for training. I know the obvious runners
> who trained at altitude. I'm not aware of any runners who went to low
> altitude for speed work before trials.

I don't know about going low and staying there but in the sense of 
using a pure hi-low model Michelle uses it.  And of course so do I but 
i am only going to Sydney to watch.
Good Training,
  Michael Rohl

t-and-f: where are all the world records?

[Michael Rohl]

Netters

Marty wrote:
> Correct me if I'm wrong, but those were ROAD performances and only official
> world records at those distances that get ratified by the IAAF are on the
> track.

That was my mistake Marty and Gary already pointed that out.  See 
I thought that for things like the Marathon and Road walks and 
Half Marathon that the IAAF had decided to change those from 
World "BESTS" to World Records.  If I am wrong then i have no idea 
where i read it but that is what I thought I read.  (Did that make 
sense.)

> And I know this will raise a firestorm among some folks on this list here,
> but I don't buy that those road "records" were legit until I see some
> confirmation by an independent race walking authority that the courses the
> Russians followed that day were 1) certified as accurate distance(s); and 2)
> those courses were coned properly and followed on the day of the races

Na. no fire storm from me. I have my doubts as well.  I think the 
cones were laid out wrong myself but have not heard anything 
official.   As far as I am concerned the  women's winner of the Euros' 
is legit.  And will be ratified.

But on a side note what difference does it really make wether it is a 
road best or record for the purposes of the conversation.  Would we 
be having the same discussion if a world best had been set in the 
Marathon and didn't Tegrat set a world best for the Half marathon 
earlier this year?
Good Training,
  Michael Rohl

Re: t-and-f: Re: where are all the world records?

[GHTFNedit]

In a message dated 8/29/00 8:40:50 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

<< If they had adopted the German proposal for new records
(without findamentally changing the events, as with the
javelin), then we would be involved in endless debates as
to when the new record is statistically superior to the old. >>

the hard-core nuts would have had endless debates; the general public would 
mindlessly embrace the new rash of recordbreaking, which is the whole point.

those who would argue that new records would somehow contaminate the sport's 
historical line ignore the fact that even if there had been no advances in 
training, technnology alone removed from reality some of the sport's greatest 
heroes ever in an all-time list sense, and it didn't hurt their standing one 
iota.

synthetic tracks and runways, starting blocks, metal/fiberglass poles, 
aerodynamic javelins, concrete throwing circles (not many on the list will 
remember when shot putters wore spikes!), rim-weighted discs, foam rubber 
pits, etc., etc.

We've found ways to make past recordholders obselete: why not do it in a 
major way? Because it would require the IAAF to admit that there was a huge 
doping regimen on its watch and it had no choice but to ratify a lot of 
records that are from the realm of the unreal. (not that it has gone away)

gh

Re: t-and-f: Impressive, or...?

[GHTFNedit]

In a message dated 8/29/00 2:56:35 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

<< Dominique Arnold must be frustrated right now - not going to

Sydney.  >>

i thought he was one of the revelations of the Trials (earlier too, but 
partic. in Sacto). really showed me a lot.

had he not whacked a hurdle in the final, he may well have gone on to medal.

gh

RE: t-and-f: Re: where are all the world records?

[Post, Marty]

I used "standard" to mean events included on a championship level or have
been in existence for a significant number of years. This would include
events like the 1000, 2000 and 3000 meters and the mile, but leave out the
300 meters which a lot of the press credited with Michael Johnson having set
a "world record" at earlier this year.

> --
> From: Adam Knudson[SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Reply To: Adam Knudson
> Sent: Monday, August 28, 2000 6:06 PM
> To:   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject:  t-and-f: Re:  where are all the world records?
> 
> I think that the last year in which no men's track or field world
> record was broken was 1910, of course it depends on what you
> mean by standard events, if you don't consider the 1k or the 3k
> standard then I think it would be 1918.  (by the way the answer
> is the same even if you are only considering the year through
> August).  Don't quote me on that, but I'm pretty sure that's right.
> I'm sure if it's wrong some one on the list will jump in to correct me.
> 
>Adam
> 
> >Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2000 22:02:50 -0400
> >From: "Post, Marty" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Subject: t-and-f: where are all the world records?
> >
> >a month or so ago I wondered when was the last time it that there were no
> >men's world track and field records in a calendar year through the month
> of
> >July
> >
> >better make that through the month of August now, as the next meet with
> WR
> >possibilities won't be until Berlin, this Friday, Sept. 1. (Actually best
> >prospective WR might be in Rieti if Michael Johnson is say in 99% of the
> >400m shape he was in at Seville)
> >
> >Has there even been a year when there were no men's world records in
> >standard events?
> 
> 
> 
> 

t-and-f: Hood To Coast Recap - A First-timers personal experience

[Hanks, Jeffrey S]

I ran the 19th annual Hood To Coast Relay (194-miles) this past weekend and
thought I'd lend my own personal experiences and perspective from the race
to those on the list that were curious about it.  As a first-timer in this
race, I was completely impressed by this great event that is, as I
understand it, the largest (by total attendance) relay race in the world.

Background

The Hood To Coast Relay in it's 19th year easily max'ed out at 1000 teams as
it had for quite a few years running.  In fact, I believe they reached their
max within a week of opening applications this year.  Our team (#9909)
barely scraped in only because they award 1030 team spots assuming that 30
teams will drop prior to the start of the race.  We were the 9th team among
the 30 teams to get in based on this extra bubble.  

For those unfamiliar with the geography, the race starts at Timberline Lodge
(Elevation 6000 feet) on Mt. Hood (about 60 Miles east of Portland, OR).
The route travels westward through Portland and eventually to the city of
Seaside on the Oregon Coast by the Pacific Ocean.  The exact route map along
with details elevations for each of the 36 routes can be found at
http://www.hoodtocoast.com.  Each team consists of 12-members who each run 3
legs of the course.  Each leg averages around 6 miles and each runner will
run between 15 and 18 miles over the course of the race.  Runner 1 for
example will run legs 1, 13, and 25.  Additionally each team has two support
vehicles (vans) carrying six runners each.  Van 1 starts at the Timberline
Lodge and goes through the first 6 runners before Van 2 (carrying runners
7-12) takes over. The vans then leapfrog through the remainder of the race
every after every 6 legs.

There are about 15 divisions in the race ranging from Men's Elite, Men's
Open, Women's Open, Women's Supermaster's (50+), to corporate teams.  Each
team uniquely designs their support vans usually based on a specific theme
relating to their name.  One team "Jungle Fever" decorated both vans with a
jungle-theme and blasted the song "Jungle Fever" over their speakers
constantly.  I can only imagine how sick those runners got of that song.
Other teams wore tiaras on their heads as they run, fake prosthetic looking
butts, and large 10-gallon cowboy hats.  

Personal Perspective
---
Hood To Coast was INCREDIBLE!  Without a doubt, one of the best experiences
of my life.  And, one of the most challenging physically!

Our team (Intel - One GIG thAt HERTZ) had a start time of 8pm at TimberLine
Lodge on Mt. Hood.  They started teams at 10:30am Friday morning, and
released 20 teams every 15 minutes throughout the day.  I think that they
went until 8:30pm before they were all done.  Our wave followed the Elite
wave, which is strange because generally they release the fastest later and
later in the day, but I guess they wanted to get the Elites off before the
sun set.  They introduced all the Elite teams (Princeton Alumni Running
Club, Atlanta Track Club, etc... big names!).  They also introduced a lot of
the runners.  The World Record Holders for Master's Men and Women in the
marathon were there.  Numerous NCAA CC National Champions were there, former
Boston marathon winners were there, and a handful of sub-4 minute milers
were there as well.  

My leg was the first one (by the way, you can view all the legs and results
at: http://www.hoodtocoast.com) which was 7-miles long and dropped 2000
vertical feet.  Originally, I had the idea that it would be cool to try to
catch a straggler from the 7:45 heat (i.e. make up 15 minutes on them over 7
miles), however when I realized that it was the elite heat at 7:45, those
hopes pretty much went out the window.  I took off at a fairly fast fast,
but still a bit conservative.  I talked to enough people that convinced me
that I didn't want to go all-out or I'd kill my legs on the decline.  Of the
20 runners, I was middle-of-the-pack for most of the way, but as it started
flattening out around 4-5 miles, I started gaining on a few people.  I think
that the steep descent took it's toll on a few of the runners ahead of me.
I finished 6th out of my group of 20 and handed off to the next runner.  The
race organizers gave us spreadsheets to fill out and track our times.  I
attached it in case you are curious.  It shows all the runners times per leg
as well as averages.  My first leg finished in 46:53 (a 6:42/minute pace)
which I was pretty happy with.  The descent obviously helped my time a lot,
as I've never run sub-7 minutes for 7 miles before.  I stretched for a
couple minutes and hopped back in the van and we headed on to the next
checkpoint.  My calves and quads were already killing at this point from the
descent so at the next checkpoint I stretched some more and started icing.

After our sixth runner finished, Van 2 took over the next legs and we drove
to Portland where leg 13 was gonna start in about 4 hours.  We found the
transition point after gettin

t-and-f: High-Low

[John Lunn]

Trackos,
Does anyone know if we have any Olympic team members, from the 1500m up,
who used the "high-low" model for training. I know the obvious runners
who trained at altitude. I'm not aware of any runners who went to low
altitude for speed work before trials.
Thanks!
John

Re: t-and-f: Division I Men's Cross Country

[Sdcxc]

Hey Grote -

All polls pale in comparison to the mighty Grote Poll. Your public eagerly 
await! Be warned folksyou know he's read "Running with the Buffalos" 
and was a Wetmore fan long before the book.

Carp.

Re: t-and-f: BIG PR for LIBBIE

[Benji Durden]

Damien, Libbie's coach says she has been training with Jon Sinclair (he is
in 15:00 sea-level 5k shape or better) so she is getting help in her
workouts. He didn't say much else on the voice mail message Running Stats
got.

bd
-- 
Benji Durden
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


> 
> Anyone know why Libbie got such a big PR? Did she say?
> Tom D.

t-and-f: Why Kenyans are lousy at their national sport, soccer...

[Jon Entine]

FYI, Quokka.com recently ran a three part series excerpting a chapter of
my book on culture, genes and athletics.

The series begins at:
http://www.quokka.com/0008/24/QCMb7misc_s_taboo_WFC.html

Among the more interesting questions the series/chapter answers, "Why
are Kenyans such fanatical lovers of soccer, their national sport, but
so mediocre at it?"

For that matter, "Why are East Africans, among the more populous African
countries, so uncompetitive agains such powers as Nigeria, Cameroon, or
even tiny Ivory Coast?"

And how is it possible that 797 of the top 800 all time 100 meter times
are held by athletes of West African ancestry, yet there are no top
distance runners of primarily West African ancestry.

These are all intriguing questions that deepen our understanding of what
we will see unfold in Sydney!


Jon Entine
(818) 991-9803 :: [fax] 991-9804
http://www.jonentine.com

t-and-f: Impressive, or...?

[Mats Åkerlind]

A while ago, I mailed the list and asked why so few people seemed to
care about the great marks that were posted. Voronin in the HJ and
Alekna in the DT. The answer, it turned out, was that most people on the
list couldn't relate to the metric postings.

Thanks to the past days posts, you should now. Quite a handful of
helpful hints. Believe me, I have the same problem "the other way
around", even though I've gone to school in the US.

But - I am still amazed tha nobody's reacted to a brilliant mark in
Gateshead. 3:30.82 by Ali Saidi-Sief. In rainy weather, winning by 5+
seconds... And this by a guy whose event in Sydney should be the 5K. He
was impressive. I never noted the splits, but I think it was like 1:51.9
at 800, and by then he was alone (the pace maker stayed up to 1000) with
a large gap to the rest of the field.

More notes - rainy weather weakened a lot of the marks. But Cathy
Freeman was impressive in the 200. Maurice was weak in the 100, but had
earlier had a good anchor 4 x 1 leg (no I didn't get all the members,
but it was mostly HSI). Blame it on the cold, I suppose... Capel needs
to start to prepare for the Games... This was not the same guy as in
Sacramento. Dominique Arnold must be frustrated right now - not going to
Sydney. Edwards had mostly miserable jumps, and then one good jump...
Kipketer's going to be good in Sydney, considering how much injury
problems he's had. But Bucher's an extremely tough fighter, and so is
Said-Guerny, so it's going to be interesting to say the least.

BTW - we have new WR marks in the women's JT by Trine Hattestad. But I
know, that's not what the discussion was about...

Mats Åkerlind

[EMAIL PROTECTED]

t-and-f: big PR for Libbie

[Michael Rohl]

Netters

Tom Wrote:
> Anyone know why Libbie got such a big PR? Did she say? 

She ran faster then she has before:)

Sorry.  What makes this more impressive is that it follows 1:11 half 
marathon win in Parkersburg.

I'll tell you seeing some of the race results, I am impressed with the 
way some of these women have chosen different distances.   
Drossin, Rudolf and Rines and now Hickman all dropping it down 
and mixing it up for PR's.  Reminds me a bit of Jennings approach, 
which I think is the model to follow.  Would have been interesting to 
see Suzy jump up to a 5k in there.  The men never seem to do this 
and I think they should.

Good Training,
  Michael Rohl

t-and-f: Metric conversion web location...

[McDonald, Craig Richard]

A quick search found this useful site, the user get to pick the units...

http://www.french-property.com/ref/convert.htm
 

Craig

Re: t-and-f: Soccer vs. CC

[Ajohn79]

Is it possible for athletes to compete in 2 sports simultaneously where 
you're at? I know Jacob Maas (formerly of Stanford) competed in both 
cross-country & football and track & baseball simultaneously, as well as 
basketball, during high school. I also believe he did the 
basketball/wrestling double back in junior high. I'm just wondering if it's 
possible in other states to do 2 sports in the same season. Thanks.


<< Netters:
 It is quite possible that the potentially best CC team in NJ this 
fall will be playing soccer instead.
 
 Red Bank Regional HS already has the three Trotter sisters on the 
booting squad and, if I am hearing correctly, they will be joined by Katie 
Kingsbery, younger sister of 2000 NJ outdoor 1600 champ Walton Kingsbery, who 
has been at neighboring Red Bank catholic the past two years. This would be 
an awesome lineup with any kind of a 5th "man" to fill it out. And it is, of 
course, going to be quite a lineup in the various distance relays this 
rpting. (Only problem for Penn is that Kingsbery would be sitting out the 
automatic 30-day probation for committing the great sin of transferring 
schools without a change of address. But she would be missed there more for 
the 3200 team than the DMR, of course.)
 As far as a 4-by-Mile team is concerned. they added up to about 
20:30 last spring. Only one of the four graduates this year and there should 
be a more than adequate replacement cominbg aboard this fall.
 
Ed Grant >>

Re: t-and-f: Gateshead 4x1

[Elliott Oti]

Drummond ran the first curve, then Williams, Johnson, and Greene for the
home straight.

> A US team won the 4x1 at Gateshead in a nice 37.95 .. Does anyone know who
> the personnel was on that team ??
>
> Conway Hill
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]

t-and-f: Soccer vs. CC

[Ed Grant]

Netters:
    It is 
quite possible that the potentially best CC team in NJ this fall will be playing 
soccer instead.
 
    Red 
Bank Regional HS already has the three Trotter sisters on the booting squad and, 
if I am hearing correctly, they will be joined by Katie Kingsbery, younger 
sister of 2000 NJ outdoor 1600 champ Walton Kingsbery, who has been at 
neighboring Red Bank catholic the past two years. This would be an awesome 
lineup with any kind of a 5th "man" to fill it out. And it is, of 
course, going to be quite a lineup in the various distance relays this rpting. 
(Only problem for Penn is that Kingsbery would be sitting out the automatic 
30-day probation for committing the great sin of transferring schools without a 
change of address. But she would be missed there more for the 3200 team than the 
DMR, of course.)
    As 
far as a 4-by-Mile team is concerned. they added up to about 20:30 last spring. 
Only one of the four graduates this year and there should be a more than 
adequate replacement cominbg aboard this fall.
    
Ed Grant

t-and-f: List Supervisor - New Responsibility

[Bill Roe]

I guess we need to remind Tony and others that this list is what we call
"unmoderated" - every post you send goes directly to the list, with the only
delay occurring if the server at the University of Oregon is busy.
Supervisors are here to react to questions and occasionally discipline
violators of our charter.  We do not see posts before they go out, and
therefore cannot add or subtract material from them.  

Being NOT metrically challenged, I would probably decline the opportunity
anyway, especially since all supervisors are volunteers and I have other,
better things to do with my time... 

> Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 09:10:05 -0700
> From: "A.J. Craddock" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: t-and-f: LIst Supervisor - new responsibility?
> 
> Here's a thought.
> 
> How about getting the List Supervisor (or his nominee) to do something 
> REALLY useful, and convert all the significant metric marks that are
> posted 
> to the List to Imperial measurements so that the majority of the List can 
> relate to them?
> 
> One small step for increasing the popularity and intelligibility of the 
> sport.IMHO
> 
> Tony Craddock
> (Member - Metrically Challenged Anonymous, and participant in their new 
> Olympic event - the 12-step program)

Re: t-and-f: Division I Men's Cross Country

[Ryan Grote]

Yeah, just checked it out, and only the regional polls are up.  Even when
the national one is out, its all just so blah...dry...numbers and names
only.  Where is the wit, the sarcasm, the uncalled-for shots at people I
don't even know?  What this website does is screams for THE GROTE POLL!

Well, I'll work on it.  Busy times of late, but things are settling down and
my preliminary calculations are all done.  As I get older and further
removed from the collegiate scene (remember closest schools to me are
Rutgers and The Hall) there will be a bit less insider knowledge and a bit
more inaccuracy.

So, what I'll try to do is make up for that with...irrelevance.
Grote
adiRP

- Original Message -
From: Gordon Thomson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2000 2:47 PM
Subject: t-and-f: Division I Men's Cross Country


> The United States Cross Country Coaches Association has started a new
website.  This is the site to get the national poll and regional polls for
NCAA Division I Men's Cross Country.  Pre-season polls are released today!
>
> The site is  http://www.usccca.org/
>
> Gordon Thomson
> DePaul University
> Head XC/Track Coach
> (773) 325-1452
> www.DepaulBlueDemons.com
>
>

Re: t-and-f: LIst Supervisor - new responsibility?

[Dave Johnson]

>In a message dated 8/29/00 9:21:02 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>
><<
>How about getting the List Supervisor (or his nominee) to do something
>REALLY useful, and convert all the significant metric marks that are posted
>to the List to Imperial measurements so that the majority of the List can
>relate to them? >>
--

GH responded:

>
>there is no such thing as a significant metric mark; only Imperial marks are
>significant :-)
>
-

For the metrically challenged, think of Greene's 100m 9.79 as about 8.99
for 100y.  Call that 8.8 for a hand-timed 100y.  MJ's 19.32 would be 19.44
for 220y, or a likely 19.2 for hand timing.  Put it on the straightaway and
you've got 18.8.

Or in terms Commish would have understood in his younger days, 8 4/5 and 18
4/5.

Oh, you meant field events!

Dave Johnson
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: t-and-f: BIG PR for LIBBIE

[GHTFNedit]

In a message dated 8/29/00 12:38:54 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

<< Anyone know why Libbie got such a big PR? Did she say?  >>

she told T&FN in Sacramento (after her 3rd in the 10) that she was still beat 
up from the marathon Trials; one could speculate that she has an incredible 
base at this point and a month of sharpening it came to fruition.

gh

t-and-f: Olympic Meeting entries

[Michalis Nikitaridis]

The IAAF permit "Olympic Meeting 2000" is to be 
held tomorrow in Thessaloniki, Greece with the participation of many top 
athletes among which is Marleen Ottey, Sevatheda Fynes and Christy Gaines, 
Donovan Bailey, Greg Saddler, Mark Boswell and Kwaku Boateg, Yago Lamela and 
James Beckford, Karsten Kobs and Heins Weis, Deon Hemmings and Sandra 
Cummings-Glover, Anzhela Balakhonova and Pavla Hamackova, Niurka Montalvo 
etc
 
The entry lists of the meeting (as complete 
as possible) are published at http://www.athletix.gr
 
Michalis Nikitaridis - Panayotis 
Christopoulos

t-and-f: Re: Conversion Lesson [was List Supervisor ...]

[A.J. Craddock]

I am an engineer, and do indeed know how to convert metric marks to 
Imperial.  I can also spout electromagnetic and physics theory that is so 
advanced that even most conventionally trained Ph.D.s do not understand it.

But that is not the point.

If Field (not Track) is to sell itself to the American public and gain new 
converts, at least give them something to relate to.

The smug cognoscenti attitude that "I am from  and all you ignorant 
Americans better learn to measure just like the rest of the world does", or 
"I have mastered how to calculate the results into an intelligible format", 
or "I am so into it that I have purchased Mao's Little Red Book" isn't 
going to help one bit.

Because if a predigested intelligible result is not plopped onto the plate 
of the average American, he just will not give a s*** about it.

And that is the way the field events nabobs need to start thinking if they 
want this fascinating microcosm of athletic endeavor to find a wider audience.

Not "I can understand/calculate it, so f*** you, Jack!"

Oh.and why don't I take the time to convert metric marks as I see 
them?..usually because, like many people, I am just too damn busy.

Tony Craddock

At 03:10 PM 8/29/00 -0400, Pete wrote:
>I own a cy of the BGB but I do all my metric conversions with a simple 
>calculator.  Just remember that there are approximately 3.28 feet per meter.
>
>-Metric to English (x 3.28 then convert the decimal to inches)
> e.g. wLJ 6.90m
>
> 6.90 x 3.28 = 22 ft + 0.632 ft [ 0.632 x 12 inches = 7.854 inches 
> ... 0.854 " is about 3/4"]
> So, 6.90 ~ 22' 7 3/4"
>
>-English to Metric (convert inches to a decimal then divided by 3.28)
> e.g. mDiscus 206' 5 3/4"
>
> First convert inches to a decimal (5.75/12 ~= 0.4792).   So the 
> mark is
> ~ 206.4792 feet.  Now divide by 3.28 ... 206.4792/3.28 ~ 63.097m
>
>If you know how to operate a calculator, you can convert marks in about 5 
>seconds (or less).  Once you've calculated a bunch, you'll acquire the 
>ability to estimate with surprising accuracy.
>
>Pete
>
>
>
>At 01:45 PM 8/29/00 -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>>FREE PLUG
>>
>>Or you could all buy the Big Green Book from Track and Field news and do it
>>yourselves. I'm as metrically challenged as anyone, and I'd be lost without
>>it. It also has scoring tables for the multi-events(indoors and outdoors),
>>and all sorts of other goodies.

t-and-f: day 6 wit and wisdom

[GHTFNedit]

Pascal Dobert (two dorky names...)

Adam Goucher:  I'm going to use the alpha elimination scheme on the Adams

It would be embarrassing to sit at dinner with someone whose name you can't
pronounce...
Meb Keflezighi

Capel...

I'm not voting alphabetically, I'm voting distanceically.  Or something like

that...

Meb Keflezighi, I don't know why, must we have a reason? Any of the 12 seem 
to have something to offer as dinner guest. Hey, this is getting harder, I 
want Howard and Lister back to kick around.

Re: t-and-f: Conversion Lesson [was List Supervisor ...]

[HWillman]

Somewhere, I have a spreadsheet that takes into account the algorithms.  Not 
only that, but it does all three different metric-to-English conversions 
(different formulas are used for vertical jumps, horizontal measurements, and 
long throws).  If anybody is interested in this, let me know, and I'll try to 
dig it up.  It was in Excel, so I should be able to find it - but it's at 
home and I'm not.  I haven't used it since the Atlanta Olympics, but it came 
in very handy.

-- Howard Willman

In a message dated 8/29/00 2:31:56 PM Central Daylight Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

<< not trying to sell books, but note that BGB  (and other track event 
 conversion systems) do not use a pure mathematical conversion; there's an 
 algorithm which takes into account the fact that the metric mark is not an 
 exact measujrement to begin with, so you're dealing with some probability. 
 (actually, it's algorithms, plural, since the vertical jumps are calculated 
 differently)
 
 pure math will from time to time yield English conversions which don't agree 
 with those found in either T&FN or the FAST annuals (or the ATFS, back when 
 it carried both).
 
 gh
  >>

t-and-f: Monaco Field Events

[Beard, Cory]

IAAF Golden League

Herculis Zepter
Monaco, 18-Aug-2000

RESULTS MEN

GP
HIGH JUMP  - MEN
Pts
1 Sotomayor Javier CUB  2.30 (7' 6 1/2")  12.0
2 Topic Dragutin   YUG  2.27 (7' 5 1/4")  10.0
3 Leeper NathanUSA  2.27 (7' 5 1/4")   9.0
4 Boateng KwakuCAN  2.24 (7' 4 1/4")   8.0
5 Hemingway Matt   USA  2.24 (7' 4 1/4")   6.5
5 Strand Staffan   SWE  2.24 (7' 4 1/4")   6.5
7 Austin Charles   USA  2.20 (7' 2 1/2")   4.5
7 Hammad Abderahmane   ALG  2.20 (7' 2 1/2")   4.5
9 Janku Tomás  CZE  2.20 (7' 2 1/2")
  Grant Dalton GBR NM
  Klyugin Sergey   RUSDNS

GP
POLE VAULT  - MEN
Pts
1 Stolle Michael   GER  5.95 (19' 6 1/4")  12.0
2 Hartwig Jeff USA  5.90 (19' 4 1/4")  10.0
3 Hysong Nick  USA  5.75 (18' 10 1/4")   9.0
4 Brits Okkert RSA  5.65 (18' 6 1/2")   8.0
5 Tarasov Maksim   RUS  5.65 (18' 6 1/2")   7.0
6 Smiryagin Yevgeniy   RUS  5.65 (18' 6 1/2")   6.0
7 Johnson Lawrence USA  5.65 (18' 6 1/2")   5.0
8 Lobinger Tim GER  5.55 (18' 2 1/2")   4.0
9 Averbukh Aleksandr   ISR  5.55 (18' 2 1/2")
9 Bubka Sergey UKR  5.55 (18' 2 1/2")
   11 Galfione JeanFRA  5.40 (17' 8 1/2")
   11 Mesnil RomainFRA  5.40 (17' 8 1/2")
  Markov Dmitriy   AUS NM
  Ecker Danny  GERDNS

GP
SHOT PUT  - MEN
Pts
1 Belonog YuriyUKR  21.02 (68' 11 3/4")  12.0
2 Nelson Adam  USA  20.51 (67' 3 1/2")  10.0
3 Menc MiroslavCZE  20.34 (66' 8 3/4")   9.0
4 Lambrechts BurgerRSA  20.29 (66' 7")   8.0
5 Buder Oliver-SvenGER  20.07 (65' 10 1/4")   7.0
6 Martínez Manuel  ESP  19.78 (64' 10 3/4")   6.0
7 Bloom Andy   USA  19.40 (63' 7 3/4")   5.0
8 Konopka Mikulás  SVK  19.14 (62' 9 1/2")   4.0
9 Niare Yves   FRA  18.87 (61' 11")
  Guset Gheorghe   ROM NM

RESULTS WOMEN

GP
LONG JUMP  - WOMEN
Pts Wind
1 Johansson Erica  SWE  6.81 (22' 4 1/4")  12.0 +0.0
2 Daute-Drechsler HeikeGER  6.78 (22' 3")  10.0 +0.2
3 Burrell Dawn USA  6.76 (22' 2 1/4")   9.0 +0.0
4 May FionaITA  6.75 (22' 1 3/4")   8.0 -0.3
5 Kravets Inessa   UKR  6.62 (21' 8 3/4")   7.0 -0.1
6 Montalvo Niurka  ESP  6.61 (21' 8 1/4")   6.0 -0.1
7 Prandzheva Iva   BUL  6.57 (21' 6 3/4")   5.0 -0.1
8 Felix AurélieFRA  6.46 (21' 2 1/2")   4.0 -0.2
9 Wise Joanne  GBR  6.36 (20' 10 1/2")
-0.3

GP
JAVELIN THROW  - WOMEN
Pts
1 Shikolenko Tatyana   RUS  67.20 (220' 6")  12.0
2 Solberg-Hattestad Trine  NOR  66.73 (218' 11")  10.0
3 Damaske TanjaGER  62.72 (205' 9")   9.0
4 Tomecková Nikola CZE  61.97 (203' 4")   8.0
5 Bisset Sonia CUB  59.39 (194' 10")   7.0
6 Eve Laverne  BAH  59.34 (194' 8")   6.0
7 Nerius SteffiGER  58.25 (191' 1")   5.0
8 Schoellkopf-Auzeil NadineFRA  54.92 (180' 2")   4.0


Cory Beard

RE: t-and-f: BIG PR for LIBBIE

[Highfill, Floyd]

MF wrote:
> -Original Message-
> From: mike fanelli [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Monday, August 28, 2000 11:34 PM
> To:   [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject:  t-and-f: BIG PR for LIBBIE
> 
> 
> ps - how about a little help in converting Sheila Hudson's TJ win of 13.42
> for those of us determined to remain metrically illiterate
> 
[Highfill, Floyd]  44' even.

t-and-f: Zurich Field Events

[Beard, Cory]

IAAF Golden League

Weltklasse in Zurich
Zurich, 11-Aug-2000

RESULTS MEN

GP
HIGH JUMP  - MEN
Pts
1 Austin Charles   USA  2.32 (7' 7 1/4")  12.0
2 Hammad Abderahmane   ALG  2.29 (7' 6")  10.0
3 Leeper NathanUSA  2.29 (7' 6")   9.0
4 Hemingway Matt   USA  2.26 (7' 5")   7.5
4 Rhoden Christian GER  2.26 (7' 5")   7.5
6 Holm Stefan  SWE  2.26 (7' 5")   6.0
7 Matusevich KonstantinISR  2.26 (7' 5")   5.0
8 Strand Staffan   SWE  2.23 (7' 3 3/4")   4.0
9 Stauffer Martin  SUI  2.20 (7' 2 1/2")
   10 Krehmic ElvirBSH  2.20 (7' 2 1/2")

GP
POLE VAULT  - MEN
Pts
1 Ecker Danny  GER  5.85 (19' 2 1/4")  12.0
2 Hysong Nick  USA  5.80 (19' 0 1/4")   9.5
2 Tarasov Maksim   RUS  5.80 (19' 0 1/4")   9.5
4 Lobinger Tim GER  5.80 (19' 0 1/4")   8.0
5 Markov Dmitriy   AUS  5.80 (19' 0 1/4")   7.0
6 Smiryagin Yevgeniy   RUS  5.80 (19' 0 1/4")   6.0
7 Johnson Lawrence USA  5.70 (18' 8 1/4")   5.0
8 Galfione JeanFRA  5.70 (18' 8 1/4")   4.0
9 Stolle Michael   GER  5.70 (18' 8 1/4")
   10 Hartwig Jeff USA  5.60 (18' 4 1/2")
   11 Gerasimov Pavel  RUS  5.60 (18' 4 1/2")
   12 Brits Okkert RSA  5.60 (18' 4 1/2")
   13 Averbukh Aleksandr   ISR  5.50 (18' 0 1/2")
   14 Bubka Sergey UKR  5.50 (18' 0 1/2")
   14 Harting Chad USA  5.50 (18' 0 1/2")

GP
TRIPLE JUMP  - MEN
Pts Wind
1 Edwards Jonathan GBR  17.36 (56' 11 1/2")  12.0
+0.2
2 Friedek Charles Michael  GER  17.31 (56' 9 1/2")  10.0
-0.2
3 Dimitrov Rostislav   BUL  16.95 (55' 7 1/2")   9.0
-0.4
4 Hanstveit Ketill NOR  16.79 (55' 1")   8.0 +0.2
5 Romain JérômeFRA  16.71 (54' 10")   7.0 -0.5
6 Carter LaMarkUSA  16.66 (54' 8")   6.0 +0.6
7 Donato Fabrizio  ITA  16.58 (54' 4 3/4")   5.0
+0.0
8 Howard RobertUSA  16.43 (53' 11")   4.0 +0.2
9 Calvo MichaelCUB  14.87 (48' 9 1/2")
+0.4

GP
SHOT PUT  - MEN
Pts
1 Nelson Adam  USA  21.64 (71' 0")  12.0
2 Belonog YuriyUKR  21.00 (68' 10 3/4")  10.0
3 Hunter Cottrell J.   USA  20.53 (67' 4 1/4")   9.0
4 Menc MiroslavCZE  20.30 (66' 7 1/4")   8.0
5 Lambrechts BurgerRSA  20.23 (66' 4 1/2")   7.0
6 Buder Oliver-SvenGER  20.10 (65' 11 1/2")   6.0
7 Lyakhov Sergey   RUS  19.54 (64' 1 1/4")   5.0
8 Konopka Mikulás  SVK  19.50 (63' 11 3/4")   4.0
9 Bloom Andy   USA  18.99 (62' 3 3/4")

DISCUS THROW  - MEN

1 Alekna VirgilijusLIT  71.12 (233' 4")
2 Kruger FrantzRSA  67.81 (222' 6")
3 Tammert Aleksander   EST  66.19 (217' 2")
4 Riedel Lars  GER  66.08 (216' 9")
5 Fazekas Róbert   HUN  65.40 (214' 7")
6 Washington Anthony   USA  65.20 (213' 11")
7 Möllenbeck Michael   GER  64.81 (212' 7")
8 Schult JürgenGER  62.68 (205' 8")
9 Kövágó ZoltánHUN  62.25 (204' 3")

RESULTS WOMEN


GP
LONG JUMP  - WOMEN
Pts Wind
1 Jones Marion USA  6.93 (22' 9")  12.0 +0.7
2 Prandzheva Iva   BUL  6.92 (22' 8 1/2")  10.0 +0.3
3 Daute-Drechsler HeikeGER  6.91 (22' 8")   9.0 +0.1
4 May FionaITA  6.86 (22' 6 1/4")   8.0 +0.3
5 Montalvo Niurka  ESP  6.85 (22' 5 3/4")   7.0 -0.7
6 Burrell Dawn USA  6.80 (22' 3 3/4")   6.0 +0.3
7 Johansson Erica  SWE  6.65 (21' 10")   5.0 +0.6
8 Sturrup Chandra  BAH  6.41 (21' 0 1/2")   4.0 +0.3
9 Golding Lacena   JAM  6.30 (20' 8"

Re: t-and-f: Conversion Lesson [was List Supervisor ...]

[GHTFNedit]

In a message dated 8/29/00 12:17:42 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

<< I own a cy of the BGB but I do all my metric conversions with a simple 
calculator.  Just remember that there are approximately 3.28 feet per meter. 
>>

not trying to sell books, but note that BGB  (and other track event 
conversion systems) do not use a pure mathematical conversion; there's an 
algorithm which takes into account the fact that the metric mark is not an 
exact measujrement to begin with, so you're dealing with some probability. 
(actually, it's algorithms, plural, since the vertical jumps are calculated 
differently)

pure math will from time to time yield English conversions which don't agree 
with those found in either T&FN or the FAST annuals (or the ATFS, back when 
it carried both).

gh

t-and-f: Conversion Lesson [was List Supervisor ...]

[Pete]

I own a cy of the BGB but I do all my metric conversions with a simple 
calculator.  Just remember that there are approximately 3.28 feet per meter.

-Metric to English (x 3.28 then convert the decimal to inches)
 e.g. wLJ 6.90m

 6.90 x 3.28 = 22 ft + 0.632 ft [ 0.632 x 12 inches = 7.854 inches 
... 0.854 " is about 3/4"]
 So, 6.90 ~ 22' 7 3/4"

-English to Metric (convert inches to a decimal then divided by 3.28)
 e.g. mDiscus 206' 5 3/4"

 First convert inches to a decimal (5.75/12 ~= 0.4792).   So the 
mark is
 ~ 206.4792 feet.  Now divide by 3.28 ... 206.4792/3.28 ~ 63.097m

If you know how to operate a calculator, you can convert marks in about 5 
seconds (or less).  Once you've calculated a bunch, you'll acquire the 
ability to estimate with surprising accuracy.

Pete



At 01:45 PM 8/29/00 -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>FREE PLUG
>
>Or you could all buy the Big Green Book from Track and Field news and do it
>yourselves. I'm as metrically challenged as anyone, and I'd be lost without
>it. It also has scoring tables for the multi-events(indoors and outdoors),
>and all sorts of other goodies.

Re: t-and-f: BIG PR for LIBBIE

[Tom Derderian]

Anyone know why Libbie got such a big PR? Did she say? 
Tom D.



>If not mistaken, Libbie Hickman's 2nd place in Gateshead 3000 (behind the
>8:33.0 of Sonia O'Sullivan) was a HUGE PR...
>
>My stats have this as number 2 American performance/performer of
>all-time...second only to Mary's amazing 1985 Golden Gala (Rome)
>8:25.83wow!!
>
>-Mike Fanelli

RE: t-and-f: LIst Supervisor - new responsibility?

[Highfill, Floyd]

W. Murphy wrote:

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2000 11:45 AM
> To:   [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED];
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject:  Re:  t-and-f: LIst Supervisor - new responsibility?
> 
> 
> Or you could all buy the Big Green Book from Track and Field news and do
> it 
> yourselves. I'm as metrically challenged as anyone, and I'd be lost
> without 
> it. It also has scoring tables for the multi-events(indoors and outdoors),
> 
> and all sorts of other goodies.
> 
> Walt Murphy
[Highfill, Floyd]  
The Universal Handbook of Track and Field Charts has conversion
tables also plus over 100 other charts and tables for track and field.

Floyd Highfill 

t-and-f: SURVIVOR--day 7

[GHTFNedit]

OK clones, you've got 24 hours (i.e., until noon PDT Wednesday) to cut 
another Sacto champion from the dinner table.

If you didn't vote previously, doesn't mean you can't vote now. And no, you 
don't have to say the same thing two days in a row.

Here are the 11 remaining potential dinner guests to choose from:

Pascal Dobert
Adam Goucher
Meb Keflezighi
Allen Johnson
Angelo Taylor
Charles Austin
Lawrence Johnson
Adam Nelson
Adam Setliff
Lance Deal
Tom Pappas

gh

ps--to recap, day 1 eliminated Seaman and Mo, day 2 Greer and MJ, day 3 Gabe 
and Everett, day 4 Lister, day 5 Howard, day 6 Capel

pps--each of the remaining candidates has received at least one ding for the 
last 2 days.

t-and-f: Day 6--the list strikes with a vengeance!

[GHTFNedit]

man, is this a tough crowd! The first four days Capel was one of the many who 
got a handful of votes every day. After his 20.7 in Brussels, he jumped up to 
an almost-out yesterday and is gone today, as the biggest daily runaway 
choice yet.

Can't say I mind the decline in time required to manipulate all this, but it 
is kinda sad to note that voting is down to 1/3 of what it was the first day. 
Just a reminder: if you missed a day (or all previous days), doesn't matter. 
You can chime in any time.

gh

t-and-f: Van Damme Field Events

[Beard, Cory]

IAAF Golden League

Memorial Van Damme
Bruxelles, 25-Aug-2000

RESULTS MEN

GP
HIGH JUMP  - MEN
Pts
1 Austin Charles   USA  2.31 (7' 7")  12.0
2 Boateng KwakuCAN  2.28 (7' 5 3/4")  10.0
3 Klyugin Sergey   RUS  2.28 (7' 5 3/4")   9.0
4 Topic Dragutin   YUG  2.25 (7' 4 1/2")   8.0
5 Rhoden Christian GER  2.25 (7' 4 1/2")   7.0
6 Boswell Mark CAN  2.20 (7' 2 1/2")   5.5
6 Hammad Abderahmane   ALG  2.20 (7' 2 1/2")   5.5
8 Strand Staffan   SWE  2.20 (7' 2 1/2")   4.0
9 Rybakov Yaroslav RUS  2.20 (7' 2 1/2")
   10 Janku Tomás  CZE  2.20 (7' 2 1/2")
   11 Krehmic ElvirBSH  2.20 (7' 2 1/2")
   12 Pennings Wilbert NED  2.15 (7' 0 1/2")
   12 Sokolovskyy Andriy   UKR  2.15 (7' 0 1/2")
   14 De Paepe Patrick BEL  2.15 (7' 0 1/2")

GP
POLE VAULT  - MEN
Pts
1 Ecker Danny  GER  5.90 (19' 4 1/4")  12.0
2 Averbukh Aleksandr   ISR  5.80 (19' 0 1/4")  10.0
3 Gerasimov Pavel  RUS  5.80 (19' 0 1/4")   9.0
4 Tarasov Maksim   RUS  5.80 (19' 0 1/4")   8.0
5 Lobinger Tim GER  5.80 (19' 0 1/4")   7.0
6 Stolle Michael   GER  5.70 (18' 8 1/4")   6.0
7 Hartwig Jeff USA  5.70 (18' 8 1/4")   5.0
8 Hysong Nick  USA  5.60 (18' 4 1/2")   4.0
9 Johnson Lawrence USA  5.50 (18' 0 1/2")
  Duval ThibautBEL NM
  Galfione JeanFRA NM
  Markov Dmitriy   AUS NM
  Mesnil RomainFRA NM
  Rombaut Wesley   BEL NM

GP
SHOT PUT  - MEN
Pts
1 Nelson Adam  USA  21.58 (70' 9 3/4")  12.0
2 Belonog YuriyUKR  21.10 (69' 2 3/4")  10.0
3 Hunter Cottrell J.   USA  20.80 (68' 3")   9.0
4 Menc MiroslavCZE  20.59 (67' 6 3/4")   8.0
5 Buder Oliver-SvenGER  20.21 (66' 3 3/4")   7.0
6 Lambrechts BurgerRSA  19.98 (65' 6 3/4")   6.0
7 Bloom Andy   USA  19.92 (65' 4 1/4")   5.0
8 Martínez Manuel  ESP  19.53 (64' 1")   4.0

DISCUS THROW  - MEN

1 Alekna VirgilijusLIT  68.06 (223' 3")
2 Kruger FrantzRSA  66.82 (219' 3")
3 Washington Anthony   USA  65.90 (216' 2")
4 Schult JürgenGER  63.70 (209' 0")
5 Kövágó ZoltánHUN  63.56 (208' 6")
6 Van Daele Jo BEL  62.18 (204' 0")
7 Fortuna DiegoITA  61.48 (201' 8")
8 Pestano MarioESP  57.54 (188' 9")

RESULTS WOMEN


GP
LONG JUMP  - WOMEN
Pts Wind
1 Kotova Tatyana   RUS  6.96 (22' 10")  12.0 +0.2
2 Daute-Drechsler HeikeGER  6.86 (22' 6 1/4")  10.0 +0.6
3 May FionaITA  6.82 (22' 4 1/2")   9.0 +0.4
4 Montalvo Niurka  ESP  6.76 (22' 2 1/4")   8.0 +0.4
5 Jones Marion USA  6.59 (21' 7 1/2")   7.0 -0.2
6 Felix AurélieFRA  6.50 (21' 4")   6.0 +0.5
7 Jaklofsky Sharon NED  6.25 (20' 6")   5.0 +1.7

GP
JAVELIN THROW  - WOMEN
Pts
1 Solberg-Hattestad Trine  NOR  67.76 (222' 4")  12.0
2 Menéndez OsleidysCUB  66.38 (217' 9")  10.0
3 Uppa Taina   FIN  63.84 (209' 5")   9.0
4 Shikolenko Tatyana   RUS  63.00 (206' 8")   8.0
5 Tomecková Nikola CZE  62.44 (204' 10")   7.0
6 Nerius SteffiGER  59.01 (193' 7")   6.0
7 Tilea-Moldovan Felicia   ROM  58.90 (193' 3")   5.0
8 Stas Cindy   BEL  54.90 (180' 1")   4.0


Cory Beard

Re: t-and-f: can you believe this

[alan tobin]

Let's not start the Joe Black/Nick Whited/"whoever the hell he is" thing on 
here. This guy or these guys or who or whatever apparently wants to see his 
name on each and every track board or discussion list. It's been going on 
all summer. Let's just please ignore him/her/it.

Alan


>From: "Michael Rohl" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: "Michael Rohl" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Subject: t-and-f: can you believe this
>Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 21:40:54 -
>
>Netters
>
>Here is a crack up for you.  And some wonder why I get a little
>temperamental
>
>This guy claims to one of the U.S'S fastest marathoners... as if THAT
>means anything.   You can decide.   sounds like a typical wannabe
>distance runner insecure in what he is doing.  I know the type
>because I have coached them.  BTW he doesn't even have the
>courage sign his real name.
>
>Hi:
>My RW'ing wife recieved the following email.  Probably a troll, but who can
>tell.  Either way, thought you all would find this interesting if not 
>funny.
>
>Oh, please feel free to reply to Mr. Black since he obviously is seeking
>feedback...BG!  Just don't hit reply, I didn't write this, Mr. Black at
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] did. Have fun!
>Rick
>
>
>Email Ann got:
>---
> >Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 11:09:40 -0700 (PDT)
> >From: Iamthegreatestrunnerofalltime <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Subject: Racewalking is a JOKE
> >To:
> >
> >Although you do not know me, I felt compelled to write
> >you after seeing your idiotic site.  As one of the
> >fastest marathoners in the US, I am utterly confused,
> >while at the same time appalled, that you people call
> >yourselves "athletes".  I don't get it.  Why walk when
> >you can run.
> >
> >I have come to the conclusion that racewalking is for
> >second class citizens, citizens that cannot be
> >competitive at what they really want to do (i.e.,
> >run), so they take up walking as a lesser form of
> >competition, and then tell the world how fast they are
> >in the walk (i.e., analogous to peddling a bike with
> >one leg, whispering the loudest, or swimming without
> >using one's hands).  What is next, running with arms
> >tied behind one's back.
> >
> >I guess the point of this little diatribe is that
> >racewalkers don't get any respect, because they are
> >not entitled to any.  Trust me, I don't mean this in a
> >mean-hearted nature; rather serious athletes such as
> >myself do not appreciate your attempts to call
> >yourselves athletes, as we don't want to be grouped
> >with you.  That the US is sending racewalkers to
> >Sydney is a disgrace to this country I call home.
> >What is next, the modified mile (one can run, but is
> >not allowed to break a sweat).
> >
> >Racewalking serves no purpose; now take the knowledge
> >that I have bestowed on you, and begin running, for
> >racewalking is just plain stupid.
> >
> >Joe Black
> >
>Good Training,
>   Michael Rohl

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http://profiles.msn.com.

t-and-f: Gateshead Field Events

[Beard, Cory]

Rough feet and inches...

IAAF Grand Prix II

CGU Classic
Gateshead, 28-Aug-2000

RESULTS MEN

TRIPLE JUMP  - MEN
Pts Wind
1 Edwards Jonathan GBR  17.48 (57' 4 1/4")   5.0
+0.6
2 Idowu Phillips   GBR  16.83 (55' 2 3/4")   4.0
+0.6
3 Achike Onochie   GBR  16.53 (54' 2 3/4")   3.0
+0.8
4 Golley JulianGBR  16.25 (53' 3 3/4")   2.0
+0.9
5 Carter LaMarkUSA  16.21 (53' 2 1/4")   1.0
+1.6
6 Bell Kenta   USA  15.92 (52' 2 3/4")
+0.6
7 Howard RobertUSA  15.89 (52' 1 3/4")
+0.7

JAVELIN THROW  - MEN

1 Backley SteveGBR  82.13 (269' 5")
2 Nieland Nick GBR  81.25 (266' 7")
3 Hill MickGBR  79.00 (259' 2")
4 Pukstys Tom  USA  78.04 (256' 0")
5 Rags Eriks   LAT  76.74 (251' 9")
6 Roberson MarkGBR  73.70 (241' 9")
7 Parker David GBR  69.86 (229' 2")


RESULTS WOMEN


POLE VAULT  - WOMEN

1 Balakhonova Anzhela  UKR  4.21 (13' 9 3/4")
2 Sauer Mary   USA  4.21 (13' 9 3/4")
3 Whitlock Janine  GBR  4.21 (13' 9 3/4")
4 Bártová Daniela  CZE  4.21 (13' 9 3/4")
5 Gerryts Elmarie  RSA  4.21 (13' 9 3/4")
6 De Wilt Monique  NED  4.11 (13' 5 3/4")
6 Müller AndreaGER  4.11 (13' 5 3/4")
8 Ryshich Nastja   GER  3.96 (12' 11 3/4")

TRIPLE JUMP  - WOMEN
Wind
1 Hudson SheilaUSA  13.42 (44' 0 1/2")
+2.0
2 Griffith MichelleGBR  13.41 (44' 0")   +0.3
3 Koivula Heli FIN  13.41 (44' 0")   +1.5
4 Moroni Maria CostanzaITA  12.69 (41' 7 3/4")
+0.1
  Rahouli Baya ALGDNS

GP
DISCUS THROW  - WOMEN
Pts
1 Dietzsch Franka  GER  65.30 (214' 3")   8.0
2 Sadova Natalya   RUS  63.73 (209' 1")   7.0
3 Powell Suzanne   USA  61.50 (201' 9")   6.0
4 Möllenbeck Anja  GER  59.63 (195' 8")   5.0
5 Burova-Chernyavskaya OlgaRUS  59.32 (194' 7")   4.0
6 Goormachtigh Jacqueline  NED  54.53 (178' 11")   3.0
7 Drew Shelley GBR  54.07 (177' 5")   2.0
8 Roles Philippa   GBR  53.85 (176' 8")   1.0


Cory Beard

t-and-f: Division I Men's Cross Country

[Gordon Thomson]

The United States Cross Country Coaches Association has started a new website.  This 
is the site to get the national poll and regional polls for NCAA Division I Men's 
Cross Country.  Pre-season polls are released today!

The site is  http://www.usccca.org/

Gordon Thomson
DePaul University
Head XC/Track Coach
(773) 325-1452
www.DepaulBlueDemons.com

Re: t-and-f: Note to Statisticians - Andrew Masai's DOB

[Buck Jones]

Note that a Kenyan friend of mine once offered the opinion that for about
$100 you can be whatever age you want and have the Kenyan birth certificate
to back it up.
Cheers,
Buck

-Original Message-
From: David Monti <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Monday, August 28, 2000 7:21 PM
Subject: t-and-f: Note to Statisticians - Andrew Masai's DOB


>
>RRW Subscribers and Track Listers,
>
>I have received several e-mails recently inquiring about the age of Kenyan
>athlete, Andrew Masai.  Most older reference books listed his date of birth
>as 13-Dec-1960, which would make him 39 years-old, but the 2000 Road Race
>Management Guide listed the date as 13-Jan-1960.  He has been competing as
a
>masters athlete since April.
>
>I made an inquiry and received a fax of a copy of his birth certificate
from
>his U.S.-based agent.  According to this document, signed by a Kenyan
>government official, he was born on the earlier date, making him 40
>years-old.  He was born in the Mt. Elgon District in the Western Province
of
>Kenya in Kaptalelio.
>
>Statisticians and race officials who need a copy of the certificate can
>contact me privately.
>
>That is all.
>
>
>David Monti, Editor and Publisher, Race Results Weekly
>
>Sponsored by:
>
>F I L A   R U N N I N G / R U N N E R ' S   W O R L D / S A L M I N I  F I
L M S
>
>P.O. Box 8233[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>FDR Station  +1 212-752-2666
>New York, NY 10150-8233  +1 212-752-2626 (fax)
>USA  +1 815-461-2285 (secondary fax)
> http://www.RaceResultsWeekly.com
>

t-and-f: U.S. TRACK TEAM LIVING DIFFERENT LIFE

[Christopher Goss]

U.S. TRACK TEAM LIVING DIFFERENT LIFE

COURAN COVE, Australia (AP) - Friendly wallabies sidle up to the
tables during meals, stand on their hind legs and beg for food.
Fruit bats flutter in the trees. About 150 species of birds fill
the air.

There's a 25-meter swimming pool. Sports facilities abound, from
the usual basketball, volleyball and tennis courts to lawn
bowling, rockclimbing and bocci. Parasailing, windsurfing,
kayaking and scuba diving are among the dozen water sports
available.

Not your typical spot for a U.S. track team to prepare for the
Olympics. But that's where the Americans have been for the past
week, on this island off Australia's Gold Coast. They'll move to
Brisbane on Tuesday for two more weeks of preparation before the
opening ceremony of the Sydney Games.

For the most part, the small contingent of athletes -- the other
team members will join the group later -- have been enjoying
themselves.

They have quickly adjusted to the 14- to 17-hour time difference
from the United States, the change in diet and the strange
surroundings. Spending a week at the resort was a decision of the
team coaches about a year ago, and it has worked out well.

*** For the full U.S. track team feature, see
http://www.infobeat.com/stories/cgi/story.cgi?id=2569276940-6e1

Re: t-and-f: LIst Supervisor - new responsibility?

[Alan Shank]

"A.J. Craddock" wrote:

> Here's a thought.
>
> How about getting the List Supervisor (or his nominee) to do something
> REALLY useful, and convert all the significant metric marks that are posted
> to the List to Imperial measurements so that the majority of the List can
> relate to them?

There's a qucik-and-easy shortcut method that I sometimes use. Put .3048 in
your calculator's memory. Then put the metric mark in the register and divide
by what's in memory. On my calculator, for 60 meters,  it's:

.3048 M+
60
196.85039 in display
This gives you feet and decimal fractions of feet.
On my calculator, you can just enter the next metric mark and hit 
and get the next result, but most calculators don't work that way.

Or, you could learn to "think metric," which isn't that hard and just takes a
little discipline.
Cheers,
Alan Shank

t-and-f: JAPAN'S HORNET YVONNE KANAZAWA SCOTT

[Conning]

http://www.sacbee.com/sports/news/sports01_2829.html

Yvonne Kanazawa Scott (Hiram Johnson High School, Sacramento), the assistant 
track coach at Sacramento State, is a member of the Japanese Olympic team.

=
Keith Conning
Northern California Editor
California Track & Running News
Official Publication of the California/Northern Nevada Associations of USATF
735 Brookside Drive
Vacaville, CA  95688-3509  U.S.A.
(707) 447-7356 
Fax (707) 448-7667
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.caltrack.com 
(See Prep and Regional News sections of website.)

t-and-f: Apologies

[Ed Grant]

Netters:
    My 
apologies to one and all, but particularly to the "Commish" for that 
typo in my recent post. He really isn't that old--nor am I who has about 20 
years on him.
    
Ed Grant

Re: t-and-f: Re: where are all the world records?

[northam]

> If they had adopted the German proposal for new records
>(without findamentally changing the events, as with the
>javelin), then we would be involved in endless debates as
>to when the new record is statistically superior to the old.
>
> Dave Carey

That sounds like a criticism, but for this list it should be a positive 
advantage. Debates could go on and on and end in the mud slinging that so 
characterises track and field in general and this list in particular.
Randall Northam

Re: t-and-f: LIst Supervisor - new responsibility?

[whitmank]

Tony,
I had the same beef with results until I picked up this handy converter
somewhere and now it's on my desktop for quick and handy use.

(See attached file: metric1.xls)

Hope this helps

Keith Whitman
Head Cross Country Coach
Assistant Track & Field Coach
University of Nebraska at Kearney
Office (308) 865-8070
Home (308) 338-1115
http://www.lopers.com/xcountry/default.htm
Fax # (308) 865-8187
 Excel 2.x Chart

Re: t-and-f: can you believe this

[Michael Rohl]

Netters,
Alan wrote:

> Let's not start the Joe Black/Nick Whited/"whoever the hell he is" thing on 
> here. This guy or these guys or who or whatever apparently wants to see his 
> name on each and every track board or discussion list. It's been going on 
> all summer. Let's just please ignore him/her/it.

Sorry guys I just meant to pass it along for fun not start a real riot or 
anything.  Kind of the "you know the're out there" post.  The riot has 
started on the racewalk list though and they are just reaming the 
guy.  Hope he got what he wanted.
Good Training,
  Michael Rohl

Re: t-and-f: LIst Supervisor - new responsibility?

[GHTFNedit]

In a message dated 8/29/00 9:21:02 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

<< 
How about getting the List Supervisor (or his nominee) to do something 
REALLY useful, and convert all the significant metric marks that are posted 
to the List to Imperial measurements so that the majority of the List can 
relate to them? >>

there is no such thing as a significant metric mark; only Imperial marks are 
significant :-)

gh

Re: t-and-f: RACE WALKER IS WALKING ON FINANCIAL EDGE

[Michael Rohl]

Netters

Chris passed on:

> Ugh...more about the tent.  I was afraid this would turn into one of those
> stories.  We may yet see racewalking on NBC.

I know exactly how you feel.  Actually I am quite surprised to hear 
this from Tim and I hope i don't here it again.   Those 4 walkers we 
sent are the best funded best supported group we have ever sent.  
Michelle has received less then 1 percent of the support they have.  
Last report I have heard is that there has been 95,000 dollars raised 
for the ArcO group's coaching and travel and when you figure in the 
worth of the free room and bard at 10 grand a year per athlete yoy 
get a a figure close to 15.   My question to them back in April 
when they went to Ecuador, which by they way they were bragging 
cost them each 200 to stay for the month, why do you need altitude 
training when you have the tents.  My feeling is that the tents don't 
work as well and its better to buy/rent a house where I live for a year 
and a half for the same price.

Of course at least our walkers said nice things about the host 
country unlike Lister who complained about not getting CANDY?  
Give me a frigging break - he has been voted off right?

> Note to Mike:  Gotta get a hook for Michelle...quick.  That really wasn't an
> A-frame cottage you moved to up in the mountains, was it?  Wasn't it a
> teepee?  And how about food?  Didn't she only eat carrots while hanging
> upside down from a chin-up bar.  There's got to be a UCAP (Up Close and
> Personal--we'll talk about them a lot, so let's get a proper acronym going)
> in there some where.

No we moved to a cave I found and we have been eating dried bull 
elk meet and drinking elk cows milk!

A UCAP with the Rohl family,  By God that is not something we 
really want to see is it?
Good Training,
  Michael Rohl

Re: t-and-f: LIst Supervisor - new responsibility?

[WMurphy25]

In a message dated 8/29/0 12:21:02 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

<>

FREE PLUG

Or you could all buy the Big Green Book from Track and Field news and do it 
yourselves. I'm as metrically challenged as anyone, and I'd be lost without 
it. It also has scoring tables for the multi-events(indoors and outdoors), 
and all sorts of other goodies.

Walt Murphy

t-and-f: Bob Hayes' whereabouts

[Justin Clouder]

Hi All

I've been asked by Katie Funk of the Kansas City Star if I know where Bob
Hayes is - she's doing a piece on him for their Olympic coverage.

I don't know the answer, and nor do I know anything about Katie except that
she sends polite e-mails and has a cool name, but I said I'd pass on the
request.

If anyone would rather contact Katie direct, her e-mail is [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Thanks all.

Justin


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Re: t-and-f: Re: where are all the world records?

[Jason Michael Blank]

On Mon, 28 Aug 2000, Conway wrote:

> I tend to agree .. What WRs would anyone expect to be broken ?? Most
> WRs are so far out there as to almost be out of reach ..
. . .
> But I think WRs are going to become more and
> more of a rarity ..

  Of course they will.  Over the course of the 20th century, athletes
have run faster and jumped and thrown farther due to improved training
methods, better equipment and facilities, widening participation in the
sport, longer more dedicated careers, and pharmacological aids.

  We saw big jumps with the move from dirt tracks to mondo, and bamboo
to fiberglass poles, with the innovations of interval training and
weight training.  With such big improvements behind us, we've focused
in on the details and we're approaching the limits of human
performance.  We may or may not have years of improved performances in
front of us, but we will have to shift our focus toward competition
because records will eventually be few and far between.

Jason

PS - Are any other listmembers planning on running the Pacific USATF
 cross-country series?

___
Jason BlankHopkins Marine Station
Enloe HS '92, Duke '96, Stanford ??  Oceanview Boulevard
[EMAIL PROTECTED] Pacific Grove, CA 93950

"I would prefer the Trinidad government to do something really grand 
  in my name.  I'd like them to build maybe three or four tracks with
   indoor facilities for the kids to enjoy. . . and I'd like Tobago."
 --  Ato Boldon of Trinidad, on his hopes for Olympic Gold
___

t-and-f: LIst Supervisor - new responsibility?

[A.J. Craddock]

Here's a thought.

How about getting the List Supervisor (or his nominee) to do something 
REALLY useful, and convert all the significant metric marks that are posted 
to the List to Imperial measurements so that the majority of the List can 
relate to them?

One small step for increasing the popularity and intelligibility of the 
sport.IMHO

Tony Craddock
(Member - Metrically Challenged Anonymous, and participant in their new 
Olympic event - the 12-step program)

Re: t-and-f: Re: where are all the world records?

[Dave Carey]

 If they had adopted the German proposal for new records
(without findamentally changing the events, as with the
javelin), then we would be involved in endless debates as
to when the new record is statistically superior to the old.

 Dave Carey

On Mon, 28 Aug 2000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> 
> The IAAF will be sorry yet it didn't buy the German proposal for new records 
> when the millenium turned. They're going to feel a compelling need to do so 
> in the next few years and won't have a "logical" excuse that the public will 
> go for. The sport really couldn't have been revitalized in Joe Sixpack's eye, 
> no matter how much the purists might have hated the move.
> 

t-and-f: Inquiry for Statisticians - Biktagirova/Minsk Marathon

[David Monti]

Track Listers and RRW Subscribers,

I recently learned that the Russian federation had selected Valentina
Yegorova, Lyubov Morgunova, and Madina Biktagirova to run the Olympic
Marathon.  The selection of Yegorova and Morgunova was not surprising, and
each had posted three Olympic "A" qualifying times since 01-Jan-1999.

According to my records, Biktagirova had not bettered the 2:33:01 time
standard during the qualifying period.  However, the Russian federation has
offered a 14-May-2000 result for Biktagirova at the Minsk Marathon in BLR.
Her time was reportedly 2:30:47.  Only one statistician had this result, but
no other results for this race.  So far, I cannot get independent
corroboration that this race actually took place, or who the top finishers
were, male and female.

If anyone has any reliable information about this race, please contact me
privately.  

All my best,


David Monti, Editor and Publisher, Race Results Weekly 

Sponsored by:

F I L A   R U N N I N G / R U N N E R ' S   W O R L D / S A L M I N I  F I L M S

P.O. Box 8233[EMAIL PROTECTED]
FDR Station  +1 212-752-2666
New York, NY 10150-8233  +1 212-752-2626 (fax)
USA  +1 815-461-2285 (secondary fax)
 http://www.RaceResultsWeekly.com

t-and-f: Max Jones on Recent Drug Rulings

[David Monti]

Track Listers,

One of my subscribers, Max Jones, has strong opinions the IAAF's efforts to
rid the sport of banned substances.  With his permission, I share some of
his missives.  BTW, this is not the Max Jones of UK Athletics, but an avid
ultra-runner.

THESE OPINIONS ARE HIS ALONE.  RESPOND TO HIM AT <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  DO
NOT RESPOND TO ME.

 The IAAF confirmation of bans on Gary Cadogan, Doug Walker and Linford
Christie 
is an outrage. It should be resisted with all the strength which the
international 
Track & Field community can muster, including a boycott of the IAAF’s Grand
Prix 
events. These men are no drug-cheats, they are innocent victims of despotic, 
unaccountable regimes, the IOC and the IAAF.
   CONVICTED BUT NOT CHARGED WITH ANY CRIME  
 When they were arrested, the IAAF had powers only to suspend athletes
guilty of 
taking banned drugs "in abnormal quantity …with the sole intention of
increasing in 
an artificial and unfair manner his/her performance in competition". Have
they been 
charged with this offence ?  Of course not, because neither the IOC nor the
IAAF has 
any properly researched scientific correlation linking any amount of any banned 
substances with any degree of performance enhancement. No, they have been
charged 
with urinating a sample which contained more than 2 nanograms per millilitre
of an 
anabolic steroid, the minimum hospital dose of which - would a real
drug-cheat take 
so little ? - is 25,000,000 times 2 nanograms.
CASE NOT PROVEN EITHER 
   In a fair hearing, were it ever held, it would be up to the IAAF to
prove 
"beyond reasonable doubt" that, on the uncorroborated evidence of the
processing of 
a single urine sample, the athletes had gained artificial and unfair
advantage, not 
for them to prove (the impossible negative) that they had NOT been injected
with the 
nandrolone. Moreover, the samples are obtained by, analysed by and reported
on by 
less than perfect human beings who may be bored out of their minds by the
seemingly 
endless run of negatives. Some, inevitably, fearful for their continued
employment 
if no positive is reported when, according to the IOC bosses, "drug use is 
increasing at a terrifying rate", may see it as their duty to Sport to help
clean 
out the filthy stables. The athletes are seen as being Guilty Until Proven
Guilty.
IOC NOT 100% CERTAIN NOW
  Meanwhile, while the IAAF insists that true and false positives are
proof of 
that guilt, the IOC now concedes on its own web-site that "the effectiveness of 
doping is far from being proven in all the cases which have come to light". 
Moreover, the amount of testosterone it allows before a positive is declared
is 600 
times the 2 nanograms of nandrolone - the weakest anabolic steroid of 
all - which it allows after "research" on, quote, "males, including sportsmen". 
   INVALID RESEARCH  
  That work, carried out by the IOC-accredited lab in Montreal, Canada,
found 
0.6ng/ml of nandrolone in the urine of its volunteers, but it offered no
explanation 
as to where that had come from. In the Aberdeen study referred to in the IAAF’s 
Press Release, however, there were also three volunteers who are not
world-class 
athletes. Two of those three who took no exercise produced no nandrolone,
the third 
did exercise a little and produced nandrolone metabolites. It is appalling
that the 
IAAF decision on nandrolone should be based on a study which leapt from "males, 
including sportsmen" to set a limit of the same order of magnitude and which 
resulted in the banning of Merlene Ottey.
 What the IAAF has also failed to notice is that ALL 9 Track & Field
athletes 
sent down for urinating nandrolone are world-class sprinters, the most
intensive 
exercisers of all. How many of those were there in the Montreal studies, on
which 
the IAAF relies, and in the work done in Aberdeen, which it dismisses ?
None and 
five, respectively, four of the latter then producing urine "positives".
Whereupon 
the professor responsible for the Montreal "research" said that the Aberdeen
study 
could not be valid for, if it were, 80,000 out of the 100,000 tests in 1999
would 
nave been positive. That  workers are deprived of their jobs by people
capable of 
such ridiculous statements is totally unacceptable.
IAAF COURT PREDISPOSED TO CONVICT
 The IAAF claims in its Press Release that its own Arbitration Council is 
independent, as it is made up of representatives of national Federations..
The last 
time a national Federation took an independent line, the IAAF was quick to
threaten 
it when its transgression was leaked. Mary Slaney tested positive at the
Olympic 
Trials in 1996, the USATF neither told the IAAF of the positive nor
suspended her. 
When the IAAF found out, it wielded its big stick. In the immortal words of
(mortal) 
IAAF President Primo Nebiolo, who died last year, "the IAAF has Rules and
when a 
Federation does not follow the rules we have to do something", he said. "We

t-and-f: World Run Day Press Release

[David Monti]

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

   World Run Day™

Registration Begins for The Global Fitness and Charity
Challenge at active.com

===

New York, N.Y.  August 28 - World Run Day  - The
Global Fitness and Charity Challenge, coming this
November 5th, may be the largest running/fundraising
event ever! 

Registration for US residents begins today and
continues thru November 5th at www.active.com. 
To register, runners worldwide individually select
an event running distance - any distance. They also
promise a pledge to "any charity on the face of the
earth," and for any amount.

Registration for under $10.99 includes a commemorative
event day t-shirt, posting of results on the Internet
website www.runday.com , and the opportunity to share
The Power of Running with a global family of
charity-minded runners!

One-hundred percent of all donations go directly to
charity. The event t-shirt is provided at cost (plus
shipping/handling) to each and every runner. 

Whether running in an existing event, or with family,
friends, or even alone on a treadmill watching TV,
runners can become part of this event on November 5,
2000 with just a small donation to charity.

Referred to as "The Big E-Run," and "An International
Day of Charity," World Run Day's Event Coordinator
Bill McDermott hopes to capture the magic of Earth
Day, We Are The World, and perhaps (given some time)
even the millennium celebration! "It's all prepared
for a special group of fitness enthusiasts - charity
runners worldwide, " he says.  

The event website, www.runday.com continues to
build-up for the colossal event. Multiple language
translations, hundreds of charity links, and an
attempt to locate all running events scheduled for
November 5th are undertaken to be in place by event
day.

With a multitude of translators, in-kind sponsors, and
a desire to stage an extraordinary event, McDermott
thinks that World Run Day has the potential to become
a great success!
   
For more information visit www.runday.com or contact
Bill McDermott at [EMAIL PROTECTED] Charities and the
press are invited to call 1 (917) 626-9623 seven days
a week.
   ### 

Re: t-and-f: U.S. TV criticism--1976 style

[JimRTimes]

In a message dated 8/28/00 11:40:50 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

>Ahh, an image of Roche with his arm in a sling keeps appearing to me, too,
>
>from somewhere in the deep recesses in my cerebral cortex. Or was that
>
>Addison? Or both?

Yep, both. 2 breaks, 2 different years. No wonder the Trials seem "boring" 
now in comparison - no threat of injury/mayhem save questionable hamstrings 
in the 200 - when Roche & Addison went down you KNEW they were hurting for 
real!

Jim Gerweck
Running Times

t-and-f: Selected results from Germany

[Winfried Kramer]

Pfungstadt, 23 Aug
wJT:  Shouaa  SYR  49.98  (first competition since Sevilla)


Beckum, 25 Aug
wPV:  Garcia ARG  4.32, Goetz  4.27

Sondershausen, 25 Aug
110mh (+0.3): Balzer 13.28, Leberer 13.48, Crews 13.57
PV:  Manson USA  5.61
SP:  Paumier  CUB  19.17 (one month ago  20.78m in Habana!)
JT:  Luaces CUB  82.45
w100mh (+0.1):  Sprenger 13.00
wTJ:  Herschmann  13.91 (+1.4)

Neuwied, 26 Aug
SP: Bloom  USA  20.07
wSP: Kumbernuss 20.27, Kleinert-Schmitt  19.17, Zakowicz POL  
18.15


Winfried Kramer
Kohlrodweg 12
66539  Neunkirchen
GERMANY
Editor of NATIONAL ATHLETICS RECORDS
Association of Track & Field Statisticans

Re: t-and-f: where are all the world records?

[GHTFNedit]

In a message dated 8/28/00 20:38:24, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

<< Actually the whole thing is for naught, pending ratification the 
Russians have already broken the 20 and 50k marks this year so 
pack it up.  There have been world records set by men but who ever 
asked initially just for got to check on the walks. >>

the IAAF doesn't ratify road-race records.

gh

t-and-f: Reynolds: "I'm not dead [retired] yet"

[Ed Gordon]

Spoke with Reynolds in the hotel in Koenigs Wusterhausen (that's
track-speak for a teeny village outside of Berlin).  He is on the start
list--and undoubtedly hundreds of villagers will pack the "Friendship
Stadium" [not all GDR names have been changed] to get a glimpse of the
former world-record holder.

"I'm probably not going to run," he said.  "I've had lots of good races in
the Berlin area, and I don't want to go out with something in the 47's."

Reynolds says his sub-par condition is from his inability to bounce back
from a quad injury earlier this season.  He suffered the setback in
training.

He still has meets planned for Sopot (Poland) and Patras (Greece) in the
next week.  Then, he will consider himself retired.