Re: t-and-f: MJ won't run in next World Championships

[ACCTC]

- Original Message -
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2000 1:29 AM
Subject: RE: t-and-f: MJ won't run in next World Championships


> "I will not be at the world championships, I have to decide precisely what
> I will do for the last months of my career.


Staying clean is probably the important thing.  I'm not suggesting he
wasn't, but looking at the Christie case, if he had an 'accident' while he
was winding down [his career] it would cast a shadow over everything,
because that's the way the media think.  He's done it all, and more.  Nobody
could blame him if he retired now.  I'm sure Iwan Thomas and Alvin Harrison
would wish him well!!

Re: t-and-f: MJ won't run in next World Championships

[Paul Halford]

He's signed up to run in (or at least has heavily promoted) the Goodwill
Games in Brisbane around September time.  He said some time ago he was
thinking of ending his career there.

It's not surprising he doesn't view winning the 400 in Edmonton as a
challenge but another 200/400 double would be something - shame he won't
risk getting beaten in a major 200 in his final year.

- Original Message -
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>;
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2000 12:40 AM
Subject: Re: t-and-f: MJ won't run in next World Championships


> In a message dated 00-11-27 13:27:53 EST, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>
> << Well, I wonder what he has in mind.  I realize that he already has a
whole
> drawer full of World Champs gold medals and doesn't really need one more,
but
> where in the next year or two is there a bigger or better forum from which
to
> go out as a winner?
>  >>
>
> Dear Listers,
>
> Could MJ be hinting at that he doesn't think he will physically be able to
> compete in another World's? If that's the case, MJ will end his career at
his
> own meet in April. Knowing MJ's ego, what other way would you end a career
> than at your own meet?
>
>
> Larry A. Morgan, Sr.
> Elizabeth Heat TC

Re: t-and-f: sprinting distance runners...

[ACCTC]

- Original Message -
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2000 12:48 AM
Subject: t-and-f: sprinting distance runners...


> Can you hurt (performance)  a distance runner by periodically running them
in
> the 400m?
>
In my (not so) humble opinion, no.  So long as they don't get injured, of
course.

Re: t-and-f: MJ won't run in next World Championships

[ACCTC]

- Original Message -
From: THOMAS,Graham <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, November 27, 2000 9:47 PM
Subject: RE: t-and-f: MJ won't run in next World Championships


> He sounds like he might want to go out with a 400m WR in his last race.
The
> Championships format would obviously be detrimental to this - in
comparison

Didn't seem too detrimental in Seville!!

Regrads

ACCTC

t-and-f: Genes give black runners edge: findings

[Ken Parker]

Genes give black runners edge: findings
Dominate track and field: Kenyan Olympic gold medallist condemns
research.

Danish sports researchers have found that black runners have a genetic
advantage over white athletes that allows them to run faster and
longer.

The scientific findings, which were presented on a British television
documentary last night, explain black runners' world domination of
track and field and come amid an ongoing academic controversy over
whether racial differences influence athletic and intellectual
ability.

More...from the National Post at:
http://www.nationalpost.com/news/world/story.html?f=/stories/20001127/384654
.html.


Ken

Ken Parker
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
http://www.runnersweb.com/running.html

A running and triathlon resource site

t-and-f: "Is this Olympic glory? Athletes face reality of life after Sydney"

[Conning]

By Sheila Hudson
Sacramento Bee Staff Writer
Tuesday, November 28, 2000

Triple jumper Sheila Hudson describes life after Sydney for three Olympic athletes: cyclist Nicole Freedman, sprinter Brian Lewis, and pole vaulter Stacy Dragila.

Go to www.sacbee.com, then scroll down to Sports.

Keith Conning
Vacaville, CA

RE:t-and-f: Genes give black runners edge: findings

[Philip Weishaar]

well they must have pulled the story because the web site is a blank page and no 
mention of it anywhere in there main headlines.

Subject: Re: t-and-f: Footlocker Regionals QUESTIO

[Steve Isham]

Mike,

In regards to your statements about the Footlocker versus Junior Olympics:

>My question is why bother having a JO cross country program when you have
>this program which is so much more successful? And appropriate.


Some personal reasons why my daughter and her club compete in the Junior 
Olympic (JO) XC program:

-The JO qualifier meets are more localized, the AAU & USATF South Texas 
Association meets are held in San Antonio (90 miles away), whereas the 
Footlocker South regional is in North Carolina (1300 miles away).  I am 
curious as to how many Texas 9-year olds ran at Footlocker?

-There is no age group national meet in the Footlocker program.

-The JO XC national meet moves to different locations every year, making 
every year a bit different and we get to visit a new cities, which in some 
cases, we would otherwise never visit.

I am not knocking the Footlocker program at all, I would like to experience 
it because I have heard great things about it, but there are very solid 
reasons why the JO XC programs are still very much desirably, from an age 
group perspective.  Now if Footlocker would setup the Texas regional meet 
that they talked about last year, that would be better for us.

Steve

Re: Subject: Re: t-and-f: Footlocker Regionals QUESTIO

[R.T.]

On Tue, 28 Nov 2000 11:44:51 -0600, you wrote:

>Mike,
>
>In regards to your statements about the Footlocker versus Junior Olympics:
>
>>My question is why bother having a JO cross country program when you have
>>this program which is so much more successful? And appropriate.

My son (age 14) competed in the SoCal Association JO meet 3 weeks ago.
During the course walk-through, the meet director told the kids in the
older divisions that most of the "fastest runners" in the area wouldn't
be there because they would be competing in the California State CIF first-round
meet the same day.  At least that was his experience in the past.
So he warned them that they're probably used to 'following the leaders'
in high school meets and that wouldn't be the case, they would have to
be up in the lead and close to it to keep the pace from dragging.
He also said he may combine races in the top two divisions because of
lack of entrants (again, from his prior experience).

As it turned out, there were plenty of entrants to have separate races,
combining wasn't required, and as for the quality of competition, my son
ran a time that wasn't too far off his season best as a HS frosh (converting
3M down to 2.5M), but still got his clock cleaned.  The competition was
pretty darn good!
He could have ran a PR and still might not have qualified to get to Regional JO.

There's no way I'd say JO is unsuccessful-   this year at least, the
quality of competition and the depth of the fields were very good.

The times in the upper two age groups correlated very closely to what
we've seen this year in the best of California High School jayvee races, such as at
the Mt. SAC Invitational.
Once you move up to JO Regionals and Nationals, of course the quality is
even better.

Sure, Footlocker syphons off the best of the junior and senior elite runners,
but the JO champions aren't exactly chopped liver.

RT

Re: t-and-f: Genes give black runners edge: findings

[Tom Derderian]

Before we go nuts on this topic you may find my recent column on the subject
in New England Runner to be illuminating. It can be found on Entine's web
page. http://www.jonentine.com/reviews/NE_runner.htm
Tom Derderian

--
>From: "Ken Parker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: t-and-f: Genes give black runners edge: findings
>Date: Tue, Nov 28, 2000, 7:59 AM
>

> Genes give black runners edge: findings
> Dominate track and field: Kenyan Olympic gold medallist condemns
> research.
>
> Danish sports researchers have found that black runners have a genetic
> advantage over white athletes that allows them to run faster and
> longer.
>
> The scientific findings, which were presented on a British television
> documentary last night, explain black runners' world domination of
> track and field and come amid an ongoing academic controversy over
> whether racial differences influence athletic and intellectual
> ability.
>
> More...from the National Post at:
> http://www.nationalpost.com/news/world/story.html?f=/stories/20001127/384654
> .html.
>
>
> Ken
>
> Ken Parker
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> http://www.runnersweb.com/running.html
> 
> A running and triathlon resource site
>
> 

Re: t-and-f: Genes give black runners edge: findings

[ACCTC]

So what they're saying is, of course, that to be a great runner you have to
be black.  True!   Except don't let Sonia O'Sullivan, Paula Radcliffe, Gabby
Szabo, Svetlana Masterkova...
...know.

Re: t-and-f: Fwd: IAAF Athletes of the Year announced

[GHTFNedit]

In a message dated Mon, 27 Nov 2000  8:37:20 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

<< There is no need to be shocked by the AOY.  
This selection has furthered diminished the validity of the award. Jan had a 
wonderful year but what set him apart? You can go through the list and find 
numerous men that had comparable years in their respective events. This 
selection, and order is a joke. Kenteris?! It does not get any more 
blatantly political than that. >>

Just in case somebody else hasn't already clarified this, the poll in which Kenteris 
got 3rd wasn't the IAAF's. The IAAF didn't announced places behind the winner, other 
than to increase the "drama" by announcing that the three finalists were Zelezny, 
Michael and Mo (there, don't you feel better, Darrell?).

Z had a great year, but there's little doubt in my mind that this is a Rooster Cogburn 
Award (for those of you who don't follow movies, that refers to the Oscar John Wayne 
finally one when he didn't really deserve it either. Think of it as "lifetime 
achievement" honor as opposed to the singular award it should have been.)

gh

t-and-f: gold-medal trivia question

[GHTFNedit]

Got this from British stat maven Mark Butler.
Who's the only athlete ever to win at the Olympics, World Championships,
World Indoor Championships, World Junior Championships and World Cup?
A hint: remember that the first World Juniors wasn't until '86, so there's a
lot of history you can ignore.
gh

Re: t-and-f: MJ won't run in next World Championships

[GHTFNedit]

In a message dated Tue, 28 Nov 2000  6:03:51 AM Eastern Standard Time, "ACCTC" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

<< Staying clean is probably the important thing.  I'm not suggesting he
wasn't, but looking at the Christie case, if he had an 'accident' while he
was winding down [his career] it would cast a shadow over everything,
because that's the way the media think.>>

Clearly (and unfortunately) it's apparently also the way you think. This is just what 
the list--and the sport--needs. Mindless linking of a clean athlete with drugs. Can we 
please have a moratorium on this kind of crap?


gh

Re: t-and-f: gold-medal trivia question

[Ryan Grote]

Haile Gebresalasie??
Not sure on the World Cup, but believe pretty strongly that he did win the
rest of that stuff.
Grote
adiRP

- Original Message -
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2000 2:24 PM
Subject: t-and-f: gold-medal trivia question


> Got this from British stat maven Mark Butler.
> Who's the only athlete ever to win at the Olympics, World Championships,
> World Indoor Championships, World Junior Championships and World Cup?
> A hint: remember that the first World Juniors wasn't until '86, so there's
a
> lot of history you can ignore.
> gh
>
>

RE: t-and-f: gold-medal trivia question

[Post, Marty]

Obviously since the question first being asked now, someone who won 1st
Olympic gold in Sydney.

I'd say Gabriela Szabo

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2000 2:24 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: t-and-f: gold-medal trivia question


Got this from British stat maven Mark Butler.
Who's the only athlete ever to win at the Olympics, World Championships,
World Indoor Championships, World Junior Championships and World Cup?
A hint: remember that the first World Juniors wasn't until '86, so there's a
lot of history you can ignore.
gh

Re: t-and-f: gold-medal trivia question

[Kurt Bray]

Sotomayer.

To wit:
Olympics '92
World Champs  '93, '97
World Indoor  '89, '93, '95, '99
World Juniors  '86
World Cup  '94

Kurt Bray


>Got this from British stat maven Mark Butler.
>Who's the only athlete ever to win at the Olympics, World Championships,
>World Indoor Championships, World Junior Championships and World Cup?
>A hint: remember that the first World Juniors wasn't until '86, so there's 
>a
>lot of history you can ignore.
>gh
>

_
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RE: t-and-f: Genes give black runners edge: findings

[Justin Clouder]

This, with respect to Ken, is why the subject is such a nightmare to
discuss.

The researchers DID NOT say that BLACK runners appear to have an advantage.
They were researching the Kalenjin (apologies if that's mis-spelt) only.
Their conclusion was that the KALENJIN outperform everyone, INCLUDING THEIR
OWN COUNTRYMEN.

They took three groups of youths with no training at all and trained them
for three months before assessing their progress. One group was Danish, one
was Kalenjin and one group was from a non-Kalenjin Kenyan village 50 miles
from the Nandi Hills but at the same altitude and with the same diet and
level of poverty.

The aim was to control for the effects of altitude, diet and poverty, long
considered the three key advantages that this extraordinary tribe possess to
allow them to so dominate distance running.

The Kalenjin group vastly outperformed both the Danish runners and their
compatriots from 50 miles away.

This programme, one of a series exploring the isue of genetic differences
between groups and individuals, was extremely intelligent and very balanced.
It was at pains to dismiss the traditional macro racial groups as of no
validity from a genetic basis and has focused instead on genetic variation
within small, more precise geographic groups not aligned to traditional
racial boundaries.

There is NOTHING in this research which is of any relevance to any black
person other than the Kalenjin. To categorise it as being relevant to the
purely social (not genetic) concept of a 'black' or 'white' population is
simply wrong and a reflection of the sort of casual abuse of genetic science
by people who seem unable to get past their own black, white and yellow view
of the world.

Justin

> --
> From: Ken Parker
> Reply To: Ken Parker
> Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2000 12:59 pm
> To:   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject:  t-and-f: Genes give black runners edge: findings
> 
> Genes give black runners edge: findings
> Dominate track and field: Kenyan Olympic gold medallist condemns
> research.
> 
> Danish sports researchers have found that black runners have a genetic
> advantage over white athletes that allows them to run faster and
> longer.
> 
> The scientific findings, which were presented on a British television
> documentary last night, explain black runners' world domination of
> track and field and come amid an ongoing academic controversy over
> whether racial differences influence athletic and intellectual
> ability.
> 
> More...from the National Post at:
> http://www.nationalpost.com/news/world/story.html?f=/stories/20001127/3846
> 54
> .html.
> 
> 
> Ken
> 
> Ken Parker
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> http://www.runnersweb.com/running.html
> 
> A running and triathlon resource site
> 
> 
> 


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Re: t-and-f: gold-medal trivia question

[H-E Pettersson]

Szabo has also won World Student Games, European Indoor Championships, European Junior 
Championships, the overall IAAF Grand Prix, 1500m and 3000m in European Cup but she is 
not European Outdoor Champion!

- Original Message - 
From: "Post, Marty" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2000 9:05 PM
Subject: RE: t-and-f: gold-medal trivia question


> Obviously since the question first being asked now, someone who won 1st
> Olympic gold in Sydney.
> 
> I'd say Gabriela Szabo
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2000 2:24 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: t-and-f: gold-medal trivia question
> 
> 
> Got this from British stat maven Mark Butler.
> Who's the only athlete ever to win at the Olympics, World Championships,
> World Indoor Championships, World Junior Championships and World Cup?
> A hint: remember that the first World Juniors wasn't until '86, so there's a
> lot of history you can ignore.
> gh
> 

Re: Subject: Re: t-and-f: Footlocker Regionals QUESTIO

[ed prytherch]

I think that the strength of JO must vary a lot through different regions.
Last year, two of my junior girls who finished 6th and 8th in the South
Carolina Independent Schools state meet, took second and third in the SC JO.
In our state, running JO doesn't make much sense for competitive high school
athletes.
Ed Prytherch.

-Original Message-
From: R.T. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Steve Isham <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Tuesday, November 28, 2000 2:22 PM
Subject: Re: Subject: Re: t-and-f: Footlocker Regionals QUESTIO


>On Tue, 28 Nov 2000 11:44:51 -0600, you wrote:
>
>>Mike,
>>
>>In regards to your statements about the Footlocker versus Junior Olympics:
>>
>>>My question is why bother having a JO cross country program when you have
>>>this program which is so much more successful? And appropriate.
>
>My son (age 14) competed in the SoCal Association JO meet 3 weeks ago.
>During the course walk-through, the meet director told the kids in the
>older divisions that most of the "fastest runners" in the area wouldn't
>be there because they would be competing in the California State CIF
first-round
>meet the same day.  At least that was his experience in the past.
>So he warned them that they're probably used to 'following the leaders'
>in high school meets and that wouldn't be the case, they would have to
>be up in the lead and close to it to keep the pace from dragging.
>He also said he may combine races in the top two divisions because of
>lack of entrants (again, from his prior experience).
>
>As it turned out, there were plenty of entrants to have separate races,
>combining wasn't required, and as for the quality of competition, my son
>ran a time that wasn't too far off his season best as a HS frosh
(converting
>3M down to 2.5M), but still got his clock cleaned.  The competition was
>pretty darn good!
>He could have ran a PR and still might not have qualified to get to
Regional JO.
>
>There's no way I'd say JO is unsuccessful-   this year at least, the
>quality of competition and the depth of the fields were very good.
>
>The times in the upper two age groups correlated very closely to what
>we've seen this year in the best of California High School jayvee races,
such as at
>the Mt. SAC Invitational.
>Once you move up to JO Regionals and Nationals, of course the quality is
>even better.
>
>Sure, Footlocker syphons off the best of the junior and senior elite
runners,
>but the JO champions aren't exactly chopped liver.
>
>RT
>

RE: t-and-f: gold-medal trivia question

[THOMAS,Graham]

off the cuff - Javier Sotomayor?

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wednesday, 29 November 2000 6:24
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: t-and-f: gold-medal trivia question


Got this from British stat maven Mark Butler.
Who's the only athlete ever to win at the Olympics, World Championships,
World Indoor Championships, World Junior Championships and World Cup?
A hint: remember that the first World Juniors wasn't until '86, so there's a
lot of history you can ignore.
gh

Re: t-and-f: Genes give black runners edge: findings

[R.T.]

On Tue, 28 Nov 2000 15:08:24 -, you wrote:

>So what they're saying is, of course, that to be a great runner you have to
>be black.  True!   Except don't let Sonia O'Sullivan, Paula Radcliffe, Gabby
>Szabo, Svetlana Masterkova...
>...know.
>

Actually, it tells me that if a Kalenjin (a tiny sub-set of "black") is
subjected to the same diet, training & coaching that O'Sullivan, Radcliffe,
Szabo and Masterkova get, it's only a matter of time...those four are gonna
get their clocks cleaned...

That it's not happening quite yet is only an indicator that great numbers
of Kalenjin are not yet getting that diet, training & coaching.
And as long as the status quo remains fairly constant, people like those
four still have realistic hopes of medalling in major competitions.

I think every "big name" elite competitor in track & field realizes in
their "heart of hearts" that there are probably individuals somewhere in
the world who could beat them if they were provided the same lifetime of
diet, coaching and training, facilities, and so forth.

RT

Re: t-and-f: Genes give black runners edge: findings

[P.F.Talbot]

On Tue, 28 Nov 2000, ACCTC wrote:
> So what they're saying is, of course, that to be a great runner you have to
> be black.  True!   Except don't let Sonia O'Sullivan, Paula Radcliffe, Gabby
> Szabo, Svetlana Masterkova...
> ...know.

Hmm... maybe they are!  After all, there is no biological or genetic way
to define "black" which is a term born out of modern power relations.  If
you want to look at genetic differentiation as the basis of groups then
"blacks" actually would comprise a bunch of different groups and the rest
of the world only one.

This whole discussion is really hurt by the word "black."  If you want to
talk about specific population groups with certain genetic characteristics
that is fine, but "black" doesn't have any real meaning beyond the social
world.  The only thing that African-Americans and rift valley Kenyans have
in common is that historically they were percieved in the same manner by
whites and lumped into the same group of "blacks."  Genetically, east and
west Africans are no more closely related to each other than they are to
northern Europeans and maybe less so.

Paul

***
Paul Talbot
Department of Geography/
Institute of Behavioral Science
University of Colorado, Boulder
Boulder CO 80309-0260
(303) 492-3248
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: t-and-f: Genes give black runners edge: findings

[Kurt Bray]

> >So what they're saying is, of course, that to be a great runner you have 
>to
> >be black.  True!   Except don't let Sonia O'Sullivan, Paula Radcliffe, 
>Gabby
> >Szabo, Svetlana Masterkova...
> >...know.
> >
>
>Actually, it tells me that if a Kalenjin (a tiny sub-set of "black") is
>subjected to the same diet, training & coaching that O'Sullivan, Radcliffe,
>Szabo and Masterkova get, it's only a matter of time...those four are gonna
>get their clocks cleaned...


Actually, what it tells me is that the social status of women out in rural 
Kenya does not yet provide them with athletic opportunities equal to that of 
the Kenyan men.  Notice that all four of the above-named "exceptions" to 
Kenyan/Kalenjin domination are women.  On the men's side just about the only 
ones keeping up with the Kenyans are Ethiopians and a handful of Arabs.

Kenyan women are beginning to move solidly onto the world stage, but they've 
got a ways to go.  They are perhaps where the Kenyan men were back in the 
mid to late 60s - a solid presence, but not yet dominant.  Give the Kenyan 
women another decade or two of social progress and it will be a different 
story.

Kurt Bray
_
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t-and-f: Genes give black runners edge: findings

[Randall Northam]

Are we really going through all this again (yawn)
Randall Northam

t-and-f: Sprinting distance runners

[Ed Grant]

Netters:
    Using 
distance runners on 4 x 400 teams is, in my experience, a normal part of the HS 
track and field world. And beyond that as well.
 
    Jim 
Ryun, Ron Delany and Marty Liquori all ran on their college mile relay teams, 
just to give three examples. The great Rod Dixon, after winning the Arbury Park 
10K some years agoi, was asked what his next goal was and answered: "To go 
back to New Zealand and make my club 1600R team again."
 
    Glenn 
Cunningham once doubled the mile and 600Y at the old K of C meet at Madison 
Square Garden.
 
 
    
Running the shorter distance occasionally will, IMHO, improve rather than harm 
most distance runners.
 
    
Ed Grant 

t-and-f: Brown HS Invit

[Kebba Tolbert]

Does anyone know where to find info (meet schedule, etc) for the Brown HS 
Invit being held December 29-30th?

Thanks,

Kebba Tolbert ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
=
Men's and Women's Jumps & Multis Coach
Syracuse University Track & Field

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t-and-f: "final" U.S. lists

[GHTFNedit]

anybody who really cares probably saw them long ago, but note that the T&FN website 
(www.trackandfieldnews.com) has 50-deep (at least) "final" U.S. performers lists for 
2000.

gh

Re: t-and-f: NCAA XC pics from Ames

[Sean Hartnett]

The weather in Ames was rough on photographers - but I've put up some
pictures from both races
These race reports can be found in the lower right hand corner of my
website at

http://www.uwec.edu/hartnesg/

The specific links are
Men's
http://www.uwec.edu/Academic/Curric/hartnesg/hartnett/NCXC2K/MNCXCindex.html

Women's
http://www.uwec.edu/Academic/Curric/hartnesg/hartnett/NCXC2K/WNCXCindex.html



Sean

t-and-f: JO vs Footlocker

[Ed Grant]

Netters:
    The 
debate over Junior Olympics vs Footlocker, of course, is aimed. or should be, 
almost strictly at what used to be called the senior JO division (17-18).as far 
as boys are conered the the two older divisions, intermediate (15-16) and senior 
for the girls.
    

    Since 
the trials for the two are usually compatible as far as time is concerned 
(though the JO meets often conflict with HS competition), why not do 
both?
    

    The 
two programs difffer in one basic way. Footlocker is in no way a 
"development" program, simply a bonus for the top CC athletes, only a 
relative handful of whom will advance to the finals. It doe snothing to promote 
thbe sport among the pre-HS set, a very important matter, as any HS coach will 
tell you. 
 
 
    The 
JO programs---there are two of them after all---between them get probably 90-95 
percent of the best 14 and under runners in the country. They do not do as well 
on the HS level now, but remember, the JO program began in 1974 long before 
Footlocker came along. There is no reason for JO to cancel its two older 
divisions just because there is a rival program with more glittering prizes (in 
fame and, perhaps, scholarships) now available.
 
    By 
the way, in that first year (1974), I was meet director for the AAU (no USATF 
then) Region I (New England, New York and New Jersey) meet at Warainanco Park, 
Elizabeth. We had two "interesting" winners that day. The intermediate 
boys' race---then only 3K---was won by a runner from Wayland, Mass., and the 
senior girls by a runner from Cape Elizabeth, Me. Wonder what ever happened to 
them?
 
    
Ed Grant

Re: t-and-f: MJ won't run in next World Championships

[Conway]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> In a message dated Tue, 28 Nov 2000  6:03:51 AM Eastern Standard Time,
"ACCTC" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> << Staying clean is probably the important thing.  I'm not suggesting he
> wasn't, but looking at the Christie case, if he had an 'accident' while he
> was winding down [his career] it would cast a shadow over everything,
> because that's the way the media think.>>
>
> Clearly (and unfortunately) it's apparently also the way you think. This
is just what the list--and the sport--needs. Mindless linking of a clean
athlete with drugs. Can we please have a moratorium on this kind of crap?
>
>

Agreed .. While I have not been the biggest fan of MJ (for reasons just like
this statement he made) remarks like this are the kind of thing that turn
people off of the list .. We can do without them .. I'm sure we all have our
speculations about the statement .. For example I do not expect to see him
in any high level 200's .. And expect that he will take another shot at the
400 record which means few appearances and probably go for a big one at the
Goodwill .. But to insinuate anything regarding drug use has become
tasteless on the list .. Speculate about performances .. Discuss attitudes
.. Favorite vs. not favorite athletes .. But the topic of drugs has done
enough to the sport for one year .. Let's leave it alone ..

Conway Hill
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

t-and-f: Sad news

[Ed Grant]

Netters:
    Just 
a little while ago, I was informed that Jim Tuppeny, former coach at Penn and 
longtime director of the Penn Relays, is in very serious condition from his 
lengthy battle with cancer. He signed out of the hospital and is now at home 
being cared for by five of his daughters.
 
    Jim 
was, before his Penn says, assistant coach to the legendary Jumbo Elliott at 
Villanova. His has been a life totally dedicated to the sport we all love. Your 
thoughts and/or prayers are requested for him and his family.
 
    
Ed Grant

Re: t-and-f: Fwd: IAAF Athletes of the Year announced

[Conway]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> In a message dated Mon, 27 Nov 2000  8:37:20 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>
> << There is no need to be shocked by the AOY.
> This selection has furthered diminished the validity of the award. Jan had
a
> wonderful year but what set him apart? You can go through the list and
find
> numerous men that had comparable years in their respective events. This
> selection, and order is a joke. Kenteris?! It does not get any more
> blatantly political than that. >>
>
> Just in case somebody else hasn't already clarified this, the poll in
which Kenteris got 3rd wasn't the IAAF's. The IAAF didn't announced places
behind the winner, other than to increase the "drama" by announcing that the
three finalists were Zelezny, Michael and Mo (there, don't you feel better,
Darrell?).
>
> Z had a great year, but there's little doubt in my mind that this is a
Rooster Cogburn Award (for those of you who don't follow movies, that refers
to the Oscar John Wayne finally one when he didn't really deserve it either.
Think of it as "lifetime achievement" honor as opposed to the singular award
it should have been.)
>

Knowing that Zelezny, Johnson and Greene were the finalists only validates
Darrell's statement to me .. While I am as big a fan of sprinting as anyone
.. And know virtually nothing about the walks, the performances of the
walker (K-something, sorry) were clearly the best in what was arguably a
down year for male track and field athletes .. The top women far
outperformed the men this year in terms of consistency and dominance in
various events .. The only individual in the same category on the men's side
was the walker .. So for these three to be the "top" of the list says a lot
for attempt at selecting someone "marketable" that was targeted in an
earlier post ..

Conway Hill
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

t-and-f: Genes and sports again

[Jon Entine]

Those interested in Saltin's views on this issue
should check out the cover story in the September Scientific American on
"Muscles and Genes." Also, my book cites many of his articles, if you want
to go to the source.

For the record, Bengt Saltin, who I interviewed extensively for my book,
makes EXACTLY the points Taboo makes. In this documentary, “The Faster Race,"
which was produced by the BBC division "Black Britain," and is very supportive
of the book (read reviews of the documentary and an article by the anchor
on "reactions around the world" on my web site), Saltin says the following:

“It’s a strong genetic component what type of muscle fiber you have, either
slow or fast. And West Africans have already 70 or 75 percent of the fast
type when they are born. And that’s needed for a 100 meter race around 9.9
seconds.”

What about distance running? “The Kenyans are born with a high number of
slow twitch fibers,” states Saltin. “They have 70 to 75 percent of their
muscle fibers being slow... Very many in sports physiology would like to
believe that it is training, the environment, what you eat that plays the
most important role. But we argue based on the data that it is ‘in your genes’
whether or not you are talented or whether you will become talented. … There
is no question about that. The extent of the environment can always be discussed
but it’s less than 20, 25 percent. It’s definitely a dominant factor how
they are born. … I don’t see this as a racist issue.”

For the record, East African blacks, who have a genetic history distinct
from blacks of West African ancestry, are notoriously poor sprinters, and
perform worse than most whites, as a consequence of their ectomorphic body
types, higher proportion of slow twitch muscle fibers, and other genetically-influenced
anatomical characteristics. While the best East African time in the 100 meters
is held by a Kenyan at 10.28 seconds (about 5,000th on the all-time list),
the best time by a white is 10 seconds (220th), the top time by an Asian
is 10.4 seconds (228). Athletes of West African ancestry hold the top 219
and 494 of the top 500 times. 
-- 
Jon Entine
RuffRun
6178 Grey Rock Rd.
Agoura Hills, CA 91301
(818) 991-9803 :: [fax] 991-9804
http://www.jonentine.com

t-and-f: NATIONAL POST ONLINE | Search Results | Story

[Jon Entine]

This is the article. It's actually another documentary:

http://www.nationalpost.com/search/story.html?f=/stories/20001127/384654.html

-- 
Jon Entine
RuffRun
6178 Grey Rock Rd.
Agoura Hills, CA 91301
(818) 991-9803 :: [fax] 991-9804
http://www.jonentine.com

RE: t-and-f: MJ won't run in next World Championships

[malmo]

It's not the TOPIC of drugs that has "done enough to the sport" -- it's the
DRUGS. Leaving it alone IS THE PROBLEM. Stay with it.

malmo


 But the topic of drugs has done
> enough to the sport for one year .. Let's leave it alone ..
>
> Conway Hill
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
>
>
>
>

Re: t-and-f: Fwd: IAAF Athletes of the Year announced

[Dgs1170]

So are we to expect honorary awards from time to time?
It just sounds like more excuses for bad judgment.  If you want to honor someone then create that award, do not deny others of earned glory.
I do not think there is a right or proper means to this dilemma, but something's are unjust, and need to be addressed.  Lately the rankings, and awards have been as arbitrary as the vote counting in Florida.  I think it is time stone started being stone again.  It seems as though things are more and more written in the sand, to be erased, and edited at will.

The G.O.A.T.

Re: t-and-f: MJ won't run in next World Championships

[Dgs1170]

It is not the displacement of blame Malmo, it is the blanket accusations.  Run fast, perform well = drugs.  That my friend is the problem, not the drugs.  More are accused than guilty ever day, and every year, furthering the bs that exist "out there."  Here we stand in the sport, and it is the same.  It is time to look in the mirror.  The proportion of guilty to accused is ridiculous.  If someone has fallen then punish them, but the constant berating of innocent athletes is not conducive to healing, and becoming a successful sport.


Darrell
The G.O.A.T.

t-and-f: IAAF expects EPO test at world championships

[Eamonn Condon]

The Irish Times
Wednesday, November 29, 2000



A test to detect the performance enhancing drug erythropoietin (EPO) should
be in use during the 2001 world championships in Edmonton, Canada, the
International Amateur Athletic Federation (IAAF) council was told yesterday.

"It's almost certain, but the final decision belongs to the antidoping
commission which will meet next spring," IAAF spokesman Giorgio Reineri said
in Lausanne.

Reineri said that research was underway, in collaboration with Dr Christiane
Ayotte, head of the Montreal laboratory, to evaluate their capacity to carry
out the task during the August championships.

Meanwhile, IAAF secretary general Istvan Gyulai said that the council was
also studying the possibility of transferring all dispute cases, and
particularly those relating to doping issues, to the Court of Arbitration
for Sport (CAS) in Lausanne. These issues are currently dealt with by the
IAAF arbitration panel, which has been the subject of criticism.

"But it's a constitutional rule and we will need a two-thirds majority from
the congress to make these changes," Gyulai said. "The matter is complicated
by the fact that some of the arbitrators are under contract until 2003.

"We were criticised when Merlene Ottey was cleared, saying that it was the
IAAF who took the decision, when it was the arbitration committee which took
the decision. If the CAS had been looking after that case no one could say
anything against the IAAF."

Reineri added: "They are thinking seriously about it. That could be a
solution. The council can discuss this next year and can then formulate a
proposal to go to the congress."

The transfer of all cases to CAS would also be a huge financial saving for
the IAAF which has spent over £500,000 this year on legal proceedings for
arbitration cases.

The council also forwarded to the arbitration commission the cases of
Romanian triple jumper Rodica Mateescu and German javelin thrower Caroline
Soboll, who both tested positive for nandrolone.

The council, which is meeting for the final time this year, also received a
detailed dossier from the American governing body USA Track and Field, which
was strongly criticised by both the IAAF and International Olympic Committee
during September's Olympics for not releasing the names of all its athletes
who had tested positive. Reineri said the dossier would be studied by the
IAAF's anti-doping commission which is headed by senior vicepresident Arne
Lungqvist.

He said USA Track and Field had given no further information on the doping
case of world shot put champion CJ Hunter, who tested positive four times
for nandrolone this year. Hunter, husband of triple Olympic champion Marion
Jones, has denied knowingly taking drugs.

Eamonn Condon
WWW.RunnersGoal.com

t-and-f: michael johnson

[jdunaway]

I wrote a short piece on Michael Johnson in The Australian
the day after he finished anchoring the 4x400 relay in Sydney.

In part it read:

" 'I feel great about my last victory,' Johnson said to reporters. 
'I'm glad to end it on a great note with a great bunch of guys.

" 'I've always put a lot of pressure on myself, and you've put
pressure on me. My coach, Clyde Hart, says that physically
there's no reason I couldn't keep going, but mentally and emotionally
I might find it pretty hard.

" 'I could probably go for another four years in the 400, but now that
we've done everything I could possibly do, the risk is greater than
the reward. I've built a record of consistency over the past 10 years
that I'm proud of -- and I would run the risk of messing that record up.'"

The article concluded:

"Johnson will be back in Oz next year for the Goodwill Games in Brisbane. 
He'll possibly run a few European races in June and July but will skip 
the World Championships in Edmonton next August. As a close friend said,
'that would mean reaching a level of fitness he may not be interested
in reaching again.' "

--

Looking back a couple of months, my take on this is simple. Michael's
a proud guy, and he's especially proud of that 10-year record of consistency.

In order to be sure of winning all his races in 2001, he'd have to be
capable of running 43.50 or better (of course, he wouldn't have to run that
fast
in most cases, but he'd have to be capable of it), because by next summer both
of the Harrison twins should be in sub-44 shape.

My guess is that MJ will at most run in his own MJ Invitational at Waco in
April 
-- either the 200 or the 400 -- and maybe run a couple of relays leg for
Nike at 
Penn, Drake, Mt.SAC and so on. Or he might just not race at all again. 

Either way, I don't think he wants to get it up for any more hard seasons.
And 
I'm certain he wants to go out a winner, which he can do merely by
retiring. I very 
strongly doubt that he'll run at USATF or Edmonton (though he might be
doing TV there) 
and I wouldn't be surprised if his role at Brisbane ends up being strictly
promotional.

Michael has moved from Dallas to the West Coast, he has a 6 1/2 month old
son who he enjoys 
enormously, he's interested in a number of business opportunities, he wants
do sports 
television and will tackle it with the same determination and intelligence
he applied to running.