RE: t-and-f: So you understand...
I believe 7' 10 7/8" instantly relates to 2.41 meters not 2.31 meters. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Mats kerlind Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2001 2:22 PM To: Track Field Mailing list Subject: t-and-f: So you understand... Sometimes I'm amazed at the narrowness of the list's topics and horizons. Tonight, we've learned tha Svetlana Feofanova jumped a new European Record of 4.65 in the women's PV. For you who don't understand it, it means that she cleared 15' 3 1/8". Ivan Pedroso jumped a decent 8.31, which means 27' 3 1/4". Javier Sotomayor cleared 2.31 = 7' 10 7/8". Tatyana Lebedeva jumped 14.89 in the women's TJ = 48' 10 1/4 (plus fractions...) Tim Montgomery won the 60 m in 6.53. That translates into quite a good time, though I don't know the imperial equivalent. (Should be something like 828 grains of sand through the hourglass). The rest of the measurements were taken completely out of my head, no paper help. So if I'm incorrect, please give the correct results in imperial. My point: It'd be nice to see more about actual T F. One example - Dragila challenged by Feofanova. Dragila is clearly the favourite, if she enters. But the challenge will be tough, having seen Feofanova clear 4.65 with space to the bar. So - more international thoughts and speculations. One doesn't exclude the other. But some of you must react to some results outside of the US. I remember last summer when Alekna's big throws were mailed to the list - even in imperial. Hardly a reaction. Then big surprise and some protests when he got the AOY award... One more thing. I watched the Athens (Pireus) meet on TV tonight. It's sad to see a top class meet the despite world leading athletes still shows such bad arrangements. No distance beyond 60 was legal. The rules state that there should be a cone every 2 m (=7') in the turns. Here it was at least 6 m (20'). In the first turn it was no problem though. There was so much sand from the LJ/TJ pit spread out over lanes 1-2 that the athletes went wide... Mats kerlind "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: t-and-f: class-record sweeps
I may be late on this, but I'm guessing Marion Jones and Curtis Johnson, both UNC athletes. Brian McGuire - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2001 5:03 PM Subject: t-and-f: class-record sweeps There are two high schoolers (one man, one woman) who hold the frosh, soph, junior and senior-class records (outdoors) in their events. Hint: although they're from different states, they shared collegiate affiliations and were teammates for one year. Who are they? gh (who just loves the statistical gems that can be gleaned from Jack Shepard's "High School Track")
Re: t-and-f: Entertainment
Tom expressed some good ideas regarding selling TF as entertainment. But I would emphasize that the entertainment must stay focussed around the sport. Thus the ideas about instant replay and educated announcing are great. But we need only look at the dismal showing of the recent XFL joke to see that bells and whistles will not sell a sport. It's NOT the glitz and hype that sells the NFL or NBA. Fundamentally it is still the recognition and appreciation of amazing performances by the athletes WITHIN the sport. The Chicago Bulls didn't sell out their games because they had the best dance troupe. Cheers, Buck Jones -Original Message- From: T. Jordan [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wednesday, February 21, 2001 4:37 PM Subject: t-and-f: Entertainment Mr. Oti wrote: ...because it took 4 hours to show a game consisting of 1 hour pure playing time, and 3 hours for shots of bulky players milling around aimlessly, giving each other countless high-fives, and lots of tinsel involving boy-bands, teen pop stars, and renditions of various anthems. Yup, and the above is what the American public thirsts for. That if there is not enough action on the football field, the basketball court, or the athletics track, they can be entertained by the "spectacle" around them. For the American audience at a track meet, this means ideally allowing no more than five minutes between events (you want to wait for the grass to grow, go to a baseball game or cricket match), having an On Field Expediter to cue the announcer to significant goings-on in the field events, live music before (and perhaps during) the meet, offering a kids tent, autograph table, and other (hopefully) value-added attractions to the main event. My own number one wish from Santa is a video replay screen at every track venue. These are now standard in football, basketball, and baseball stadia. Track field needs them, too. For track field to be successful at attracting spectators in the United States, it must be non-stop and it must be understandable (announce both metric and Imperial, and always announce world-leading or significant marks). If one is fortunate, there are great match-ups and competition, which is still what makes the sport thrilling to the track fan. But to attract the general sports fan in the U.S., it must above all ENTERTAIN. Tom Jordan
RE: t-and-f: Entertainment
I live for the day the XTL (extreme track league) becomes reality. Lap-dancing in the stands? Jacuzzi water jump? It could happen. malmo Mr. Oti wrote: ...because it took 4 hours to show a game consisting of 1 hour pure playing time, and 3 hours for shots of bulky players milling around aimlessly, giving each other countless high-fives, and lots of tinsel involving boy-bands, teen pop stars, and renditions of various anthems. Yup, and the above is what the American public thirsts for. That if there is not enough action on the football field, the basketball court, or the athletics track, they can be entertained by the "spectacle" around them. For the American audience at a track meet, this means ideally allowing no more than five minutes between events (you want to wait for the grass to grow, go to a baseball game or cricket match), having an On Field Expediter to cue the announcer to significant goings-on in the field events, live music before (and perhaps during) the meet, offering a kids tent, autograph table, and other (hopefully) value-added attractions to the main event. My own number one wish from Santa is a video replay screen at every track venue.
RE: Re: t-and-f: X-C Nats Team Scores?
I believe the scoring is based on the top 4, as is the worlds. You may have to revise your results. :) Fred Finke Excuse me while I crawl out of my cave, but how long ago did the Worlds go to scoring only 4? It used to be 6. malmo
RE: t-and-f: re: amateurism teams (long)
Typo in paragraph 3 should read- Anyone else who watches on TV or at the track is an added bonus. Sorry, Ben -Original Message- From: Ben Hall [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2001 9:03 AM To: Track Listserve Subject: RE: t-and-f: re: amateurism teams (long) First, Mats, thanks for highlighting the excellent performances of the last couple days. Second, I completely agree with GH about presentation, professionalism, etc. Third, this notion of catering to "Joe Six-pack" is foolish. There is no such thing. NASCAR does not market to "Joe Six-pack." NASCAR markets to a defined audience. Anyone who watches on TV or at the track is an added bonus. Track Field in the US needs to identify an audience or two and go after those. Saying "we want everyone" is a waste of time and money. In the Internet application development business we try to identify who potential users for a site or service might be and build applications to their specific needs. If we didn't do this up front we would spend most of our time and energy trying to be everything to everyone. Track Field are not that. Track Field can and should attempt to market itself to a broad audience. However, we MUST identify a few key market segments to target. When a client says "we want everyone to use our site" it severely limits what can be done to enhance the experience for the users who are actually the most likely to come to the site. I suggest that we follow some method to developing our product. One standard product/software/website development methodology is DEFINE, ARCHITECT, DESIGN/PROTOTYPE, and IMPLEMENT TF has hard decisions to make. Who are the top two market segments that you want coming to meets and watching on TV? Do you want men 8-13, 14-18, 19-25, 25-35, 35-45, etc? Do you want women 8-13, 14-18, 19-25, 25-35, 35-45, etc? What income brackets do you want? Etc etc. Once you get them to the arena or in front of the TV how do you satisfy them? AND HERE, don't rely on some line NBC or CBS gives you about how they want it done. Do the research yourself. Figure out how we as a sport want to present meets. TEST, TEST, TEST. Pick some meets to make try what you've come up with. Tweak it, make it better. Then convince people you're right. (I say this because after all of the highly critical radio commentary I heard on the way Sydney was covered by NBC (personal stories crap and little competition) I think it's time for us to do our own analysis.) Then sell the concept to every damn meet director in the country. This includes college and high school meet directors. Right now I can see absolutely no method to the way the sport is marketed or presented. One guy wants "Team Track" another wants disco balls and dance music during competition and most of us just want to see a well run competition, that runs on time, is compact, and one we can follow without having to chart every event. Our sport lives in a highly competitive capitalist market. It can and will survive. However, for it to do more than just survive we must run the sport like a business with a product to sell. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Michael J. Roth Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2001 7:23 PM To: Track Listserve; Mike Rohl Subject: t-and-f: re: amateurism teams Mike, On the amatuerism/team topic we agree wholeheartedly, but that should surprise no one on this list!! This summer I had submitted a detailed proposal to score the Golden Spike Tour along team lines. The proposal was given directly to Craig Masback, who said he presented it to the Board of Directors. I'll take him at his word, as there is no reason to doubt this. Basically, it was shot down - I don't remember the details - and we got stuck with the point system that is being used now for the Pontiac Cup thing. My point was the infamous "Joe Sixpack" would understand the team thing. It was to be done on a mixed-dual meet format so that each team would go head-to-head with all others in the meet. I'd love to know why the IAAF table scoring was used instead, as "Joe" has no idea what these scores mean, nor does he care. MJR
t-and-f: Falk Balzer tested positive
According to some German press reports, Frank Balzer tested postive for Nandrolone on January 19. Winfried Kramer Kohlrodweg 12 66539 Neunkirchen/Germany Association of Track Field Statisticians Editor of NATIONAL ATHLETICS RECORDS www.saar.de/~kramer
Re: t-and-f: 2004 track and field trials in Sacramento
Might the marathons be there too? The trials in 1972 and 1976 in Eugene had the marathon finish in Hayward Field following Olympic format. Was great theater. And that was before women were invented! Tom Derderian, Greater Boston Track Club - There will be a press conference later today to announce that the 2004 US t-and-f trials will return to Sacramento. Marty Post Senior Editor Runner's World Magazine www.runnersworld.com
t-and-f: the women of track
Somebody asked me why there wasn't a 2001 version of the calendar with Amy Acuff and friends. My guess is cuz they lost their shirts the first time round. gh
t-and-f: High School Record
don't think i saw this mentioned here, and it just came to my attention. Lashinda Demus 53.38 (altitude-aided) at Pocatello last weekend. Intrinsically not the best time ever, as it's inferior to the 53.45 for 440y by Andrea Thomas of 85, which is worth 53.14. gh
t-and-f: U.S. Track Trials Back Where They Belong
U.S. Track Trials Back Where They Belong John Crumpacker Thursday, February 22, 2001 ©2001 San Francisco Chronicle URL: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/chronicle/archive/2001/02/22/SP20 3645.DTL Keith Conning E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] WEB: http://hometown.aol.com/conning/myhomepage/index.html
Re: t-and-f: Falk Balzer tested positive
Winfried schrieb am 22.02.2001: According to some German press reports, Frank Balzer tested postive for Nandrolone on January 19. I just published a DLV News-Bulletin at http://www.dlv-sport.de/NEWS. Falk Balzer has been suspended from competition by the DLV Anti-Doping-Kommisson. This suspendig is follows the "procedural guidelines" of IAAF. It does not mean, that Balzer is guilty or he has been banned. Falk Balzer will not compete at the German Indoor Championchips, which will be held this weekend at Dortmund. ( http://www.dlv-sport.de/ERGEBNISSE/2001/DHM ) Ciao dirk -- DLV-Webmaster-Team c/o Dirk Wagner [EMAIL PROTECTED] Schreyerstr.5 60596 Frankfurt am Main Tel. 069 63151644 Fax 069 63151645
Re: t-and-f: TF professionalism
In a message dated 2/21/01 8:13:43 PM Pacific Standard Time, HALSINATOR writes: send no more email One of my diehard fans sent me this. So I decided to heed his word and send no more emails. In the spirit of the discussion I will call this a post, instead of an email, I think email as an imperial term. ;-) DGS Faith is a road seldom traveled
t-and-f: RE: USATF Release: SACRAMENTO TO HOST 2004 OLYMPIC TRIALS
Just PLEASE tell me that they will fix two things: 1) The site lines (i.e. steepness of the stands or distance between the stands and the track). 2) The speaker system. The announcers were inaudible below the mid-walkway. Suggest the speakers on the INFIELD - not half-way up the stands. Bob Bettwy [EMAIL PROTECTED] Director - Program Control Washington Group SRS Technologies (703) 351-7266
t-and-f: Incorrect times for USATF XC 12K??????
I was wondering if anyone else noticed the timing error in the men's 12K? Meb Keflezighi most certainly did not run 34:11. I was standing around the corner from the finish, but I estimated he finished around 35:0something. Both my and USATF's splits had him at just over 29:00 for 10K. There's no way he ran the last 2K in 5:00. Culpepper's time is off too. I don't know about Abdi et. al. Perhaps someone walked across the finish line, giving first place 34:11 and all other times are skewed by one place. Does anyone have any idea what the true times were? Thanks. Dan Lilot Track Field News
t-and-f: NCAA Division II Track Field Power Rankings, 2-21-01
Below are the NCAA Division II Track Field Power Rankings for February 22, 2001 as determined by the US Track Coaches Association (Division II). More information on the rankings can be obtained at the rankings web site, www.d2rankings.com, or at the Division II Coaches Association web site, http://www.unf.edu/sports/track/div2coaches/ MEN RankTeamPoints Region 1 Nebraska-Kearney149.79 North Central 2 Central Missouri State 148.02 South Central 3 Emporia State University141.74 South Central 4 Fort Hays State University 137.1 South Central 5 Kutztown University 136.69 East 6 Pittsburg State University 132.3 South Central 7 South Dakota State University 131.4 North Central 8 Ashland University 130.02 Great Lakes 9 Saginaw Valley State130.01 Great Lakes 10 Lewis University128.05 Great Lakes 11 Northern State University 127.57 North Central 12 Lock Haven University 127.39 East 13 Saint Joseph's College 125.69 Great Lakes 14 UMass Lowell125.15 New England 15 Shippensburg University 122.58 East 16 East Stroudsburg University 121.65 East 17 Millersville University 120.22 East 18 Colorado School of Mines118.36 North Central 19 University of Indianapolis 110.85 Great Lakes 20 University of Missouri-Rolla85.68 South Central WOMEN RankTeamPoints Region 1 Emporia State University143.1 South Central 2 South Dakota State University 133.38 North Central 3 Nebraska/Omaha 131.92 North Central 4 Nebraska-Kearney128.23 North Central 5 Central Missouri State 127.88 South Central 6 Kutztown University 124.74 East 7 Saginaw Valley State124 Great Lakes 8 UMass Lowell123.66 New England 9 Lewis University120.92 Great Lakes 10 Ashland University 120.16 Great Lakes 11 University of Indianapolis 118.84 Great Lakes 12 Pittsburg State University 116.17 South Central 13 Shippensburg University 111.32 East 14 East Stroudsburg University 110.82 East 15 Lock Haven University 108.95 East 16 Truman State University 108.39 South Central 17 Fort Hays State University 107.62 South Central 18 Millersville University 105.15 East 19 Northern State University 104.22 North Central 20 Saint Joseph's College 85.39 Great Lakes -- Brian Kavanaugh Lotus/Domino R5 CLP, Development Multi-Option Systems, Inc. 11920 Burt Street, Suite 100 Omaha, NE 68154-1598 (402) 431-8000 / (800) 551-MOSI [EMAIL PROTECTED] (work) [EMAIL PROTECTED] (home) Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1
t-and-f: Sacrameto to Host 2004 Olympic Trials
Contact:Jill M. Geer Director of Communications [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.usatf.org 317-261-0500 FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE Thursday, February 22, 2001 Olympic Trials to return to Sacramento in 2004 INDIANAPOLIS The U.S. Olympic Track Field Trials will return to Sacramento, California, in 2004, USA Track and Field (USATF) announced on Thursday. Dates for the meet will be announced at a later time. Sacramento becomes the first city to host two consecutive Olympic Trials since Eugene, Ore., which had three in succession , from 1972-1980. Other cities expressing interest in hosting the 2004 Olympic Trials were Buffalo, N.Y.; Charlotte, N.C.; Durham, N.C.; and Eugene, Ore. The 2000 Olympic Trials, held July 14-23, attracted an Olympic Trials record 187,104 spectators over eight days of competition and delivered a resounding worldwide message about the strength of track and field in the United States. USA Track Field is thrilled to be returning to Sacramento for the 2004 Olympic Trials, USATF CEO Craig Masback said. Last years Olympic Trials were the most successful in history, with eight days of sell-out crowds. From our perspective, it was the most successful Olympic Trials ever, in any sport. USA Track Field and the Sacramento Sports Commission can now benefit from having one Olympic Trials under our belts, and we look forward to working together for an even better Olympic Trials in 2004. The 2000 Olympic Trials set new standards, on and off the track. One world record, four American records and 11 Olympic Trials records highlighted the competition, and 10 of the winning marks in Sacramento exceeded the winning marks at the Sydney Olympics. The event was viewed on worldwide television in 62 nations, and included national television on NBC and PAX-TV over the eight days. More than 700 journalists from 16 countries came to Sacramento for the Olympic Trials. Sacramento proved itself to be a gracious host in 2000, USATF President Bill Roe said. More importantly, the city and the sports fans of Northern California showed their unmatched support for track and field, and they impressed the world in the process. There is no better place for the 2004 Olympic Trials, for athletes, fans or USA Track Field. The Olympic Trials also resulted in several long-term improvements at Cal State Sacramento. In addition to the competition and warmup tracks donated by Alex G. Spanos in 2000, a new system of telephone communication lines was installed, along with state-of-the-art electrical power connections and grandstand renovations. All told, more than $2,000,000 was invested in the A.G. Spanos Sports Complex by the local organizing committee (LOC). Spanos had pledged $500,000 toward the 2004 effort. In 2000, we set out to transform Sacramento into this countrys track and field capital, said Cleve Livingston, chair of the Sacramento Region Sports Education Foundation. With the 2000 Trials, the 2001 Junior Olympics, the 2003 NCAA Track and Field Championships, and now the 2004 Trials, we believe we are close to achieving this goal. Sacramento was awarded the 2000 Olympic Trials in December 1997. By being awarded the 2004 Olympic Trials in February, the LOC has a 10-month jump start on planning, as well as benefiting from the experiences gained at 2000 Olympic Trials. The local organizing committee is preparing a ticket renewal plan for 2000 Olympic Trials ticket holders, assuring those patrons first priority on 2004 seating.
Re: t-and-f: RE: USATF Release: SACRAMENTO TO HOST 2004 OLYMPIC TRIALS
Also, How about some shade netting over the stands. - Original Message - From: "Bettwy, Bob" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "Track List (E-mail)" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2001 12:30 PM Subject: t-and-f: RE: USATF Release: SACRAMENTO TO HOST 2004 OLYMPIC TRIALS Just PLEASE tell me that they will fix two things: 1) The site lines (i.e. steepness of the stands or distance between the stands and the track). 2) The speaker system. The announcers were inaudible below the mid-walkway. Suggest the speakers on the INFIELD - not half-way up the stands. Bob Bettwy [EMAIL PROTECTED] Director - Program Control Washington Group SRS Technologies (703) 351-7266
Re: t-and-f: RE: USATF Release: SACRAMENTO TO HOST 2004 OLYMPIC TRIALS
In a message dated 2/22/01 5:21:36 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Also, How about some shade netting over the stands. What "stands?" They are called "sits" at Hughes Stadium. Try standing and cheering like in Europe and see what it gets ya!!! maddog
t-and-f: All-Time sub-28:00 10k's ... U.S. and World
Doing a little tabulating to answer my own trivia question, I came up with the following: American sub-28:00's: Nenow 11 82-89 Salazar 9 80-84 Virgin 7 76-80 Shorter 5 72-7? Plasencia 4 ? Eyestone4 ? Williams4 ? McChesney 3 ? Bickford3 84-85 Worldwide sub-28:00's: Tergat 16 93-2000 (seven at Brussels - seven in Championship heats or finals) -former WR holder Haile Geb 14 93-2000 (eight of them in Championship heats or finals - SIX in Invites) - current WR holder Khalid Skah 13 90-2000 (despite a PR of 27:14 - 52 seconds slower than Geb) Mamede 13 ? (despite a PR of 27:13) - former WR holder Barrios 12 ? former WR holder Nizigama12 ? Nenow 11 82-89 Henry Rono 11 former WR holder Lopes 10 76-84 former World #2 Maina Munyi 10 Still competing Ramaala 10 Still competing Salazar 9 Alberto Cova9 Salah Hissou9 94-97 (five in Championship meets - four in Brussels) former WR holder Mezegebu9 Still competing Martii Vainio 9 (impressive considering a 27:31 PR) German Twins: Kunze 8 Schildhauer 8 Virgin 7 former World #2 Paul Koech 7 (Fastest man in history NEVER to have won ANY of his SUB-28:00's) Viren 5 (PR of 27:38 ... and five times under 28:00!) former WR holder Jos Hermens 5 (Geb has a manger who knows the score) Ethiopian Duo: Yifter 4 Kedir 4 Most consistent performer: Toshihiko Seko (1978-1986): 27:51, 27:43, 27:51, 27:42, 27:45, 27:45 (ALL sub-28's within NINE seconds) Something weird with guys who ran around 26:52: William Sigei 4 93-95(You would think he would have run more with a 26:52 PR) former WR holder Mohamed Mourhit 4 97-00(You would think he would have run more with a 26:52 PR) Weirdest of all: Charles Kamathi 1 (PR of 26:51 ... but only ONE sub-28:00) This is by no means the definitive list ... just a collection of names from lists people have sent me and I compiled on my own. The US and World TOP-FIVE are accurate though.
Re: t-and-f: RE: USATF Release: SACRAMENTO TO HOST 2004 OLYMPIC TRIALS
Also, How about some shade netting over the stands. Spanos promised to fund the building of some sort of shade covering over the stands if the trials were awarded to Sacramento again for 2004. Now we'll see if he delivers. Kurt Bray _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
t-and-f: SACTO TRIALS: GOOD NOT SO GOOD
The good news is that the Trials will be back in Sacto in '04...the bad news is that the Trials are back in Sacto in '04. While I am pleased to have the Trials in my Northern California backyard and by most accounts, last year's meet was outstanding, the seating situation basically sucked. By this I mean that the seating was so jam packed that once you made it to your seat, you were stuck. Getting up for a "beverage" or pit stop was damn near impossible...am hoping that the seating and enter/exit procedures are improved down the road. -MF * Mike Fanelli San Francisco Bay Area Real Estate Specialist professional representation of buyers and sellers [EMAIL PROTECTED] 415.447.6254 or visit my web site at: www.SFabode.com
t-and-f: can you justify metric measure?
The question in the subject line is one I'm posing with restrictions. I don't want answers from anybody who doesn't live in the United States, because--no offense--you don't understand the situation. And I'm talking only about FIELD events, not track. While I think the switch to metric events cost the sport dearly 20-odd years ago, that's no longer an issue. So here's what I'm asking. I want somebody to come up with even ONE reason that would justify a metric measurement in a jump or throw either being read over the PA or posted on the scoreboard or on a field-event indicator. What possible benefit could it have for an American track field audience that is basically ignorant of the metric system (and would love to stay that way). What possible benefit is there for the sport? gh (i apologize in advance to all those who are tired of metric conversations--you know wehre the delete button is--but as somebody who has spent half his waking hours for the last 20 years trying to find ways to make the sport palatable, i feel compelled to continue this Quixotic quest.)
Re: t-and-f: All-Time sub-28:00 10k's ... U.S. and World
This begs the question, when was the last time, if ever, that Gebreselassie ran over 28:00? He almost exclusively runs 10Ks for championships and record attempts. Andy Ames From: "Mcewen, Brian T" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: "Mcewen, Brian T" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: t-and-f: All-Time sub-28:00 10k's ... U.S. and World Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 17:45:10 -0500 Worldwide sub-28:00's: Tergat 16 93-2000 (seven at Brussels - seven in Championship heats or finals) - former WR holder Haile Geb 14 93-2000 (eight of them in Championship heats or finals - SIX in Invites) - current WR holder Khalid Skah 13 90-2000 (despite a PR of 27:14 - 52 seconds slower than Geb) Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
Re: t-and-f: SACTO TRIALS: GOOD NOT SO GOOD
Mike, That part was fun. Everyone around us in good spirits after we all shifted down a row, or was it up a row? By the time you got a couple of hot dogs and went to the boys room a couple of times, you were friends. In my book they don't need to change anything and I'll return. JL mike fanelli wrote: The good news is that the Trials will be back in Sacto in '04...the bad news is that the Trials are back in Sacto in '04. While I am pleased to have the Trials in my Northern California backyard and by most accounts, last year's meet was outstanding, the seating situation basically sucked. By this I mean that the seating was so jam packed that once you made it to your seat, you were stuck. Getting up for a "beverage" or pit stop was damn near impossible...am hoping that the seating and enter/exit procedures are improved down the road. -MF * Mike Fanelli San Francisco Bay Area Real Estate Specialist professional representation of buyers and sellers [EMAIL PROTECTED] 415.447.6254 or visit my web site at: www.SFabode.com
t-and-f: Stars
Conway Hill wrote about the 2000 Oly Trials in Sacramento: Mo, MJ and Marion were there ... Where else in the US = can you see the 3 of them in the same meet All three have been at the Prefontaine Classic the past three years...but that just proves your point, Conway. The Pre Classic has by far the largest attendance of any invitational meet in the U.S., and you and Buck Jones and others are correct: it is the STARS who bring in the spectators. They don't even have to be track fans. Surveys taken at three past Pres showed that 50% of those in attendance described themselves as "general sports fans" rather than "track fans". If the athlete is a big enough star, and there are enough of them, the fans will turn out.
Re: t-and-f: can you justify metric measure?
So here's what I'm asking. I want somebody to come up with even ONE reason that would justify a metric measurement in a jump or throw either being read over the PA or posted on the scoreboard or on a field-event indicator. How about, that for the mark to be legal for IAAF qualifying purposes, technically it must be measured in metric? Therefore, announcing the performance in metric for high level meets or even USATF juniors has some value. That said, I agree with you that announcing metric performances should not be done if the intention is to attract anyone other than ultra hard-core fans. I do think that having them on the scoreboard or field event indicator is fine, as long as the English measurement is the one that is most obvious. I will repeat my earlier assertion, however, that a CONSISTENT application of metric only results and announcements throughout track at all levels (youht, high school, etc) would eventually be just as well received as using an English membership. The problem is that we are not consistent, nor do I entertain much hope of becoming consistent - we can't even agree on the damn rules! In which case, going English only is best option. - Ed Parrot
Re: t-and-f: SACTO TRIALS: GOOD NOT SO GOOD
What would it take to have the marathons in Sacramento with the track trials? Tom D. - Original Message - From: John Lunn [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: mike fanelli [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2001 6:40 PM Subject: Re: t-and-f: SACTO TRIALS: GOOD NOT SO GOOD Mike, That part was fun. Everyone around us in good spirits after we all shifted down a row, or was it up a row? By the time you got a couple of hot dogs and went to the boys room a couple of times, you were friends. In my book they don't need to change anything and I'll return. JL mike fanelli wrote: The good news is that the Trials will be back in Sacto in '04...the bad news is that the Trials are back in Sacto in '04. While I am pleased to have the Trials in my Northern California backyard and by most accounts, last year's meet was outstanding, the seating situation basically sucked. By this I mean that the seating was so jam packed that once you made it to your seat, you were stuck. Getting up for a "beverage" or pit stop was damn near impossible...am hoping that the seating and enter/exit procedures are improved down the road. -MF * Mike Fanelli San Francisco Bay Area Real Estate Specialist professional representation of buyers and sellers [EMAIL PROTECTED] 415.447.6254 or visit my web site at: www.SFabode.com
Re: t-and-f: RE: USATF Release: SACRAMENTO TO HOST 2004 OLYMPIC TRIALS
- As long as they bring back all those nice porta-pots everthing will be just fine.
Re: t-and-f: RE: standing (wasUSATF Release: SACRAMENTO TO HOST 2004 OLYMPIC TRIALS
In a message dated Thu, 22 Feb 2001 5:52:02 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: What "stands?" They are called "sits" at Hughes Stadium. Try standing and cheering like in Europe and see what it gets ya!!! I, for one, made a point of going to one of the head cops after the meet and thanking him for enhancing the viewing experience. Anybody who keeps asses glued to the seats WHEN NECESSARY gets into the GH Hall Of Fame. Don't get me wrong; i find absolutely no fault with leaping to your feet and jumping up and down when something truly exciting is going on. I do it myself, and it's one reason i don't sit in pressboxes unless I have to (the unwritten rule of "no cheering in the pressbox"). But when the moment is passed, get your ass down. And I think the police were pretty good at recognizing what was a seminal moment in a race and not saying anything. What I saw them do--yeah!--was go after the yahoos who feel to compelled every time somebody runs by them. And I don't just mean if it's your teammate or your kid, i mean everybody, every time. Or the jerk who stands up, turns around and talks to the people in the row behind him for minutes at a time, during a competition. Or the guy in the front row who decides to stand up even though he has an unobstructed view, forcing everybody in every row behind him to stand on a whim. Obviously, policing this is an inexact science, but I thought the Sacto police did an excellent job of it. If they erred to much on the sitting side, that would be my preference. As for the "cheering like in Europe" part, my take after 30 years of European meets is their manners in this department are far ahead of ours. (They had to do something to make up for the metric measuring :-) gh ps--while I'm yapping at people who make viewing a meet tough, i think they ought to outlaw any camera lens that's longer than the dick of the guy using it. (I've long suspected there's an inverse corrolation in this department, by the way) Now I don't mean to get off on a rant, but ever sit next to this asshole at a meet? His telephoto obscures the track on whichever side of you he sits; he's wearing a vest with 222 pockets that he continually needs to get into, meaning you get elbowed every 10-15 minutes, and when you try to use the aisle, you invariably raise his ire becuase it's your fault you kicked the post he's got his camera resting on. I always wish i had my portable x-ray machine with me so i could give him a quick roentgen shot, fogging all his film. But that's just me; maybe I'm wrong!
Re: t-and-f: RE: USATF Release: SACRAMENTO TO HOST 2004 OLYMPIC TRIALS
Add some mist sprays for the fans and athletes. And please pave the surroundings. The dust, and dirt were overwhelming. I lost a good pair of shoes to the dust bowl. Other than that, I think it will be a great site again, as soon as, they turn the track around. Faith is a road seldom traveled
Re: t-and-f: can you justify metric measure?
Easy. So when they read results from around the world and want to compare, they have the measurement to do so. I have seen enough new wires to know that most times they are reported in metric units. Example, Garry you announce a meet, and read and print the results in imperial measurements, the LA Times will take that information and print it word for word, just as you have reported it to them. That same day there is a meet in Stuttgart, and all published reports are strictly in metrics. The LA Times again prints what is reported. How is the fan to know what is what? Godina puts 71'10" and wins. Belonog puts 21.50 m. Who threw further? Unless some diligent worker like Scott Davis is willing to do all the conversions for the Times, the fan is lost, and the sport is alienated because track fan does not know who has done what. As opposed to you reporting the metric, which has to be measured anyway, and the imperial, so track fan begins to have some correlation of the distances. Also, when they show in the Times track fan will know who did what, and that Godina is one of the best in the world. I know you do not expect track fan to just take your word for it? DGS Faith is a road seldom traveled
t-and-f: Gebrselassie 10K
possibly his 28:03 at Seoul Games (1992) mrgymrat Two roads diverged in a wood, and I, I took the one with the major hills... and that has made all of the difference! Run fast, Run slow, Run period.
t-and-f: Sacto Trials made for the Shade?
Y ask Y: Good news that Spanos the ex-vaulter will sink another 500K into the Sacto Trials in 2004. Big question: Is he making good on his promise to erect a shade canopy for the stands? My wife and 180,000 other fans who suffered the heat last summer are interested. Ken Stone
Re: t-and-f: can you justify metric measure?
Let's say the results from a GP I meet like Zurich or Pre (it doesn't make a whole lot of difference) roll in to an American newspaper's sports desk via wire service or any other reasonable source, and there aren't any obvious world records jumping off the page, here's my take on what happens: 1. Field results are expressed in imperial units. Likelihood of being printed in agate in the next edition: Major media center (SF, LA, Chic, NY) daily: 60% Smaller town daily (Nashville, Houston etc): 30% Likelihood of carrying the accompanying text story, simply copied verbatim off the wire service: Major daily: 10% Smaller daily: 0% Likelihood of writing their own story: you gotta be kiddin! 2. Field results are expressed in metric. Likelihood that results will be printed "as is" in the next edition: Major daily: 0% Smaller daily: 0% But most major dailies have connections to somebody locally who knows how to convert the right way (or reasonably close). Likelihood that locally-converted results will be printed as soon as they can get around to it: Major daily: 30% Smaller daily: 0% So the whole idea, if a promoter wants to get the results into the newspapers, is to convert it to imperial BEFORE releasing it to the media. These likelihood percentages might seem shocking to Europeans, but it's reality here in the good ol' U.S.A. Editors want their work to be done FOR them in the case of what they view as "minor sports" like tf athletics, otherwise they just ignore the results as if the meet didn't happen. They don't really care, and they don't think their readers care either. Track meet results are just agate "filler" right next to the greyhound results from Sarasota and yesterday's winning Lotto numbers. Editors doubt anybody actually reads that stuff, or if they do they're just an oddball Ted Kaczynski kind of outcast living in a shack somewhere. Somebody like Ken Stone can tell me how far off my estimates are. RT
Re: t-and-f: can you justify metric measure?
In a message dated 2/22/01 9:28:40 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I have seen enough new wires to know that most times they are reported in metric units. Example, Garry you announce a meet, and read and print the results in imperial measurements, the LA Times will take that information and print it word for word, just as you have reported it to them. That same day there is a meet in Stuttgart, and all published reports are strictly in metrics. I can only speak for the papers that I see, such as the NY Times and USA Today, but, with very rare exception, they print field event results from international meets in feet and inches. They know their audience. Walt Murphy
t-and-f: standing in Sacto
Just posing the question to those of you who are in favor of announcing measurements in English because the American fan will not understand metric (A position I largely agree with). I know at least some of you don't favor allowing spectators to stand throughout a track meet. Won't those same American fans who stand for entire basketball or football games get disgusted and move to other sports when they aren't allowed to do it at track meets? I know I sat next to a couple of different people in sacto who had not been to a track meet before and whom I would categorize as fitting the general stereotype of the football or basketball fan. Both of them were yelled at by the "standing" police for standing and cheering, and I suspect neither of them will be back. Maybe that's not the kind of fans we want, but can we afford to be that choosy? - Ed Parrot
Re: t-and-f: can you justify metric measure?
In a message dated Thu, 22 Feb 2001 8:01:37 PM Eastern Standard Time, Ed Dana Parrot [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: How about, that for the mark to be legal for IAAF qualifying purposes, technically it must be measured in metric? Therefore, announcing the performance in metric for high level meets or even USATF juniors has some value. Why? Virtually every meet (every one of consequence) is measured in metric, and all the athletes and coaches (the ones who worry about Q purposes) know that already, so they're not worried about how it's measured. And for the general fan, who knows nothing about that rule, and couldn't care less, why start speaking a foreign language to him? If you feel compelled to mention Qs (a practice which has rendered collegiate meets almost unwatchable), say the jumped 7-4 and he got his Q, period. Fans don't need or want chapter and verse on the intricacies of the legitimacy of marks. They want our sport to be like baseball; ball goes over fence, is home run. They don't want to know if the wind was legal, what the metric measure is for the 330-foot mark on the left-field fence, who surveyed the field and what he had for breakfast. Keep the sport simple! gh
Re: t-and-f: Stars
Absolutely correct. I have had Mo and Marion for the last 4 years. And even the 2 times Mo did not run, he was signing autographs, shaking hands, walking up and down the track with me and talking to the folks. The fans love that stuff and will come to see it. Sure, they may have been disappointed that Mo was not yet ready to run, but he was there pressing the flesh. For the fans, that is just as important in my view. Scott Davis - Mt. SAC Director
Re: t-and-f: standing in Sacto
In a message dated Thu, 22 Feb 2001 10:45:37 PM Eastern Standard Time, Ed Dana Parrot [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I know at least some of you don't favor allowing spectators to stand throughout a track meet. Won't those same American fans who stand for entire basketball or football games get disgusted and move to other sports when they aren't allowed to do it at track meets? I know I sat next to a couple of different people in sacto who had not been to a track meet before and whom I would categorize as fitting the general stereotype of the football or basketball fan. Both of them were yelled at by the "standing" police for standing and cheering, and I suspect neither of them will be back. Maybe that's not the kind of fans we want, but can we afford to be that choosy? Terrible two-edged sword here. As a worst (or most-likely?)-case scenario, allow the newcomers to stand and you'll simply lose a lot of the old-timers (and I don't necessarily mean that in an age-related way). The old-timers you could count on to come to meet after meet, year after year. Sacto was a one-time spectacle (maybe about to be a 2-time?). Maybe those newcomers don't come back whether you let them stand or not. Do we want to run the risk of alienating the entrenched audience on the vague hope that we can capture new people? As for these guys being "stereotypical football or basketball fans," let me relate to my geographical area. Other than the crazies in the Black Hole, Raider fans spend most of the game in their seats, as do Niners. And Giants and A's. Nobody goes to Warrior games, so it doesn't matter. And then there's the only sport I go to regularly, which is hockey, where if you persist in standing, the usher will gladly escort you from the arena. In fact, for years, as part of the pregame video, they used to have one of the Shark thugs come on screen and deliver a message somethign like, "don't stand up or i'll ahve to come and break your face." As a final note, in my many years of announcing, whenever the crowd starts standing for no reason (usually at the start of the 100), I'll frequently say something like, "Now that you've all stood up, have you noticed you can't see any better than before? If you all sit down, you'll all see just the same, and you'll be more comfortable." Hundreds of such announcements in many cities have never failed to get a rousing cheer from the crowd. I have to believe that's the way the majority wants it. gh
t-and-f: Sub 13:20 5000m by Americans
Mcewen, Brian T wrote: Salazar never broke 13:20 until the year he ran 27:25. And I think he only broke 13:20 once. I think Nenow only cracked 13:20 once in his career (maybe twice). And Virgin went 13:19 twice ... Salazar run sub 13:20 three times. But Nenow only once. Virgin twice. And All time list as a reference: 1 1 Bob Kennedy 70 Nike Int12:58.215 WKZ Zrich 14 Aug 96 2 Kennedy 12:58.752 DNG Stockholm 08 Jul 96 3 2 Sydney Maree 56 Puma TC 13:01.152 Bislett Oslo27 Jul 85 4 Kennedy 13:02.932 Bislett Oslo22 Jul 94 5 Kennedy 13:03.374 WKZ Zrich 16 Aug 95 6 Kennedy 13:03.576 ISTAF Berlin 01 Sep 98 7 Kennedy 13:04.045 GP Final Milan 07 Sep 96 8 Kennedy 13:05.187 Golden Gala Rome14 July98 9 Kennedy 13:05.545 WK Zrich 11 Aug 99 10 Kennedy 13:05.932 BNP Villeneu DAscq 08 Jul 94 11 Kennedy 13:06.122 ISTAF Berlin 30 Aug 96 12 Kennedy 13:06.626 DNG Stockholm 07 Jul 97 13 Kennedy 13:07.719 WKZ Zrich 13 Aug 97 14 Kennedy 13:08.439 Golden Gala Roma7 July99 15 Kennedy 13:09.645 Bislett Oslo21 Jul 95 16 3 AdamGoucher 75 Fila13:11.2510 WK Zrich 11 Aug 99 17 4 Meb Keflezighi 75 Nike13:11.772 Heusden 5 Aug 00 18 5 Alberto Salazar 58 Ath West13:11.933 DNG Stockholm 06 Jul 82 19 Kennedy 13:12.143 Pre Eugene 26 May 96 20 Kennedy 13:12.356 OG Atlanta 03 Aug 96 21 6 MattCentrowitz 55 New York AC 13:12.91 1 Pre Eugene 05 Jun 82 22 Kennedy 13:12.986 WKZ Zurich 17 Aug 94 23 7 Bruce Bickford57 New Balance TC 13:13.49 2 Oslo Game Oslo27 Jun 85 24 Maree 13:13.841 VDM Brussels23 Aug 89 25 Maree 13:14.623 GP Final Rome10 Sep 86 26 8 BillMcChesney 59 SMTC13:14.805 WKZ Zurich 18 Aug 82 27 Kennedy 13:14.914 Bislett Oslo10 Jul 93 28 9 Marty Liquori 49 Florida AA 13:15.062 World Cup Dusseldorf 04 Sep 77 29 Maree 13:15.077 Bislett Oslo04 Jul 87 30 Kennedy 13:15.393 NEC Classic Melbourne 25 Feb 98 31 10 DougPadilla 56 Ath West13:15.441 WG Helsinki04 Jul 85 32 Salazar 13:15.722 Pre Eugene 05 Jun 82 33 McChesney 13:15.771 Eugene 16 May 81 34 Maree 13:15.851 Paulen Hengelo 14 Aug 88 35 11 Jim Spivey 60 Asics TC13:15.868 ISTAF Berlin 30 Aug 94 36 Liquori 13:16.001 WKZ Zurich 24 Aug 77 37 Liquori 13:16.211 DNG Stockholm 04 Jul 78 38 Padilla 13:16.421 TAC Indianapolis16 Jun 85 39 Kennedy 13:16.495 Kobenhavn 25 Jul 93 40 Kennedy 13:16.937 GPF Paris 03 Sep 94 41 Maree 13:17.132 TAC Indianapolis16 Jun 85 42 12 JohnGregorek60 adidas 13:17.448 Bislett Oslo04 Jul 87 43 Kennedy
t-and-f: Team Scores from 2001 USA Winter XC Champs
Ok, since I've had several people complain that no team scores have been posted, here you go... 2001 USA Winter Cross Country Championships Ft. Vancouver Park, Vancouver, WA February 17-18, 2001 TEAM SCORES for Junior Senior Races Senior Men COMBINED Scoring 1 Nike 14 2 adidas 27 3 New Balance 60 4 Hanson's - Team USA 81 5 Nike Farm Team 102 6 NYAC 172 7 Air Force 225 8 Club Northwest 243 9 adidas Transports 246 10 Navy 255 11 Marines 273 12 Army 289 Senior Men's 4k 1. adidas 2068 16 2. NIKE 22 3. Army 62 4. Marines 79 5. Air Force 80 6. Navy 92 Senior Men's 12k 1. NIKE 15 2. adidas 2068 45 3. New Balance 47 4. Hansons Team USA 58 5. NIKE Farm Team 80 6. NYAC 124 7. Reebok Boston 132 8. adidas Transports 133 9. Air Force 161 10. Team Eugene 185 11. Navy 191 12. Army 207 13. Marines 215 Junior Men's 8k 1. Wings of America 21 [faster 5th runner] 2. San Diego TC 21 3. Colgate 38 4. Oregon Prep 66 Senior Women COMBINED Scoring 1 Nike 21 2 adidas 33 3 Asics 40 4 Team Oregon 177 5 Marines 284 6 Army 307 Senior Women's 4k 1. NIKE 12 2. adidas 2068 30 3. Team Oregon 45 Senior Women's 8k 1. Asics 15 2. adidas 2068 22 3. Marines 63 4. Army 74 5. Navy 89 Junior Women's 6k 1. Wings of America 10
t-and-f: Talking Cross
And HOW ABOUT that meet last weekend in Fort Vancouver? Didn't get to see it myself, but sounds like it was a spectator friendly course (though 6 loops must've been tiresome to athletes). Notable performances: Deena Drossin grabs her third straight national title. Ho-hum. Regina Jacobs gets down and dirty. Too bad Drossin wasn't in the 4k, would've made a much more interesting race. Brad Hauser makes fourth straight national team (two in track, two in cross). "Pre-meet favorite" (at least judging by some news accounts and his confident statements) Bob Kennedy can only place fifth in 12k. Has the torch been officially been passed? Brian McGuire
t-and-f: If you can't stand the heat...
...Get out of the stadium. My wife and 180,000 other fans who suffered the heat last summer are interested. As one of the nine fans (your math, not mine) who found the warm Sacramento weather a delightful contrast to the frigid Bay Area summers, I scoff at such complaints. The weather was one of the best things about the meet. I agree with Darrell that the dust sucked, and they should also do something about fencing people off while parading the athletes past. Unnecessary. Brian McGuire
t-and-f: Talking Cross II
Wasn't quite finished when I accidentally sent last message. How 'bout some major props for Meb! Outstanding surprise victory at Oly Trials 10,000, great 5,000 in Europe, then a solid run at the Olympics...followed by convincing win at Vancouver. I was down in the athletes' bullpen in Eugene in '99 after the 10,000, in which Meb had finished fourth, less than a second behind Abdi for the final spot on the Worlds team. Meb had come into the meet lacking a desired "base", due to injury. Nonetheless, he had tried a mid-race breakaway with Abdi, but lacked the conditioning to pull it off. After the race, Meb, a native-born Eritrean, was showing his command of the English language. "F***! F***!" he kept saying, softly, slapping his spikes against the bench. He didn't look angry. He was actually smiling, some. In retrospect, he was obviously making some vows, as well. He hasn't looked back since. Brian McGuire
Re: t-and-f: If you can't stand the heat...
don't you think we just got plain ass lucky with the weather??? ps - USATF Natls (Eugene '01) tix go on sale 3/1 (www.eugenechamps.com)...hotels are already tough to get...just (this eve) made some reservations at $85 at Best Western on Franklin 1/2 block from TrackTown Pizza...541-485-2727 Mike Fanelli San Francisco Bay Area Real Estate Specialist professional representation of buyers and sellers [EMAIL PROTECTED] 415.447.6254 or visit my web site at: www.SFabode.com - Original Message - From: Brian McGuire [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: T n F List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2001 8:44 PM Subject: t-and-f: If you can't stand the heat... ...Get out of the stadium. My wife and 180,000 other fans who suffered the heat last summer are interested. As one of the nine fans (your math, not mine) who found the warm Sacramento weather a delightful contrast to the frigid Bay Area summers, I scoff at such complaints. The weather was one of the best things about the meet. I agree with Darrell that the dust sucked, and they should also do something about fencing people off while parading the athletes past. Unnecessary. Brian McGuire
Re: t-and-f: SACTO TRIALS: GOOD NOT SO GOOD
In a message dated Thu, 22 Feb 2001 8:05:05 PM Eastern Standard Time, "Tom Derderian" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: What would it take to have the marathons in Sacramento with the track trials? A 2am starting time? No wait, we're choosing a team to run in Athens in August. Sacto is thereby DQed because the conditions won't be severe enough. Marathon Trials should be in Houston in July. gh
Re: t-and-f: If you can't stand the heat...
Brian said: As one of the nine fans (your math, not mine) who found the warm Sacramento weather a delightful contrast to the frigid Bay Area summers, I scoff at such complaints. The weather was one of the best things about the meet. As one who spent four summers in the Sacto area, I can tell you that we were incredibly lucky that the weather was miraculously mild for nearly the entire trials last summer. It's normally over 100 degrees pretty much every day. If the weather is more normal in 2004, you won't come away thinking that the weather was one of the best things about the meet. And in a another post Brian also said: After the race, Meb, a native-born Eritrean, was showing his command of the English language. "F***! F***!" he kept saying Meb may be Eritrean-born, but he went to high school right here in San Diego, where I'm sure he must have learned the full complement slang and profanity common to American youth everywhere. Kurt Bray _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
Re: t-and-f: If you can't stand the heat...
In a message dated 2/22/01 9:11:19 PM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: and they should also do something about fencing people off while parading the athletes past. Unnecessary Very necessary! Holding up the athletes until the fans get out of the way is not a good idea. Allowing the fans access to zoned out 100 m runners is a bad mixture. There needs to be a better way to route everyone, but if not, the fencing is the best idea. DGS Faith is a road seldom traveled
