t-and-f: Country WR in the HJ?
Yesterday, A Lennart Julin posted a somewhat rhetoric question on the Swedish TF website. Did Sweden set a new WR in the category Best combined male and female marks for a country during one day - and one meet? On Saturday, in Arnstadt, Germany, Sweden had this double: Stefan Holm 2.36 (World leader) (eq. around 7 ft. 8 4/5 in.) Kajsa Bergqvist 2.02 (eq. 6 ft. 7 in. + fractions) (New Swedish indoor record. Marina Kuptsova won at the same height after jump off) This sums up at 4.38 (eq 14 ft 4 3/8 in.) Well. I haven't had the chance to check. What can you guys find? I can imagine that perhaps the USA, Russia or Germany might challenge. But on the same day and in the same meet? Mats Åkerlind Gävle, Sweden
Re: t-and-f: Athens HJ meet: Sokolovsky 2.33
Impressive jumping by Sokolovskiy (and also by the women - four over 2.00 or higher already this winter!) But, now to the point. Sokolovskiy's 2.33 is not the world's best this year. Charles Clinger cleared 2.34 last Saturday in Nampa, Idaho. Mats Åkerlind Gävle, Sweden Michalis Nikitaridis wrote: Andrey Sokolovskyi cleared 2, 33 m. to win the international high jump, organized by the Municipality of Herakleion in Athens. The Russian jumper is now on the top of the world list for this season. Ghenady Moroz of Belarus placed second with 2, 20 m., the same height with the Greek Dimitris Syrakos who is third. In women's competition, Viktoria Seryogina won at 2, 00 m., while Kajsa Bergqvist was second, after clearing also 2, 00 m. Marina Kuptsova placed third with 1, 98 m. Full results: www.athletix.org Michalis Nikitaridis - Panayotis Christopoulos
t-and-f: Swedish TF taking top honors
The list has at times discussed various sports and also complained about the lack of appreciation that TF gets. Well, here in Sweden, we cannot complain. Tonight, TV broadcasted the annual Sports Gala. There the best athletes in Swedish sports are selected. Part by jury, part by popular choice (telephone voting). In the presence of both the king and the prime minister, TF had a super evening. First the jury votes: Best male athlete: Christian Olsson Best female athlete: Kajsa Bergqvist Best coach: Ulf Karlsson (head coach of the Swedish national team). (Yannick Tregaro - the 24 year old coach of Christian Olsson - was also aming the four nominees) Best performance of the year: Carolina Klüft Best personality of the year: Carolina Klüft. At last, the people's choce of most popular athlete of the year (The Jerring price - named after a legendary radio broadcaster) was presented. Winner: Carolina Klüft After her followed in the top 5: 2) Tony Richardsson (speedway) 3) Magdalena Forsberg (biathlon) 4) Annika Sörenstam (golf) 5) Kajsa Bergqvist (HJ) That means two tF athletes in the top five. A number of you might wonder how Klüft could outedge Bergqvist and others. OK - she won the ECh in Hep. She won the World Junior Ch. She set two World JR. She was world No.1 and ranked No. 1 by TFN. But it was a weak year, with Lewis, Barber, Raschupkina and others absent. The answer is personality! A natural born TV personality who dances, shows emotions, gives witty remaks and simply charms the TV audience. (And - yes - Swedish TV boroadcasted the whole Hept. from the EurCh in Munich). B t w - there has been a lot of discussion on the fact that Annika Sörenstam didn't win any major awards. It has been pointed out as reasons that her personality is less appealing than that of the others (also the speeway racer Tony Richardsson and the biathlete Magdalena Forsberg are extremely positive personalities). Also - Annika mostly competes in the USA. So there is a home bias also here... (Compare with the discussion around Lance Armstrong). The only other USA based Swedish athlete close to winning an award was Detroit hockey player Nicklas Lidström, one of the four nominees in the category Best male athlete. Mats Åkerlind Gävle, Sweden P.S. Isn't it interesting to compare the countries? Here we wouldn't consider a baseball, basketball or football player. That is - until a Swede someday stars in the Super Bowl or takes the role of a Dirk Nowitzki... Until now, Heptathlon was a toatlly uninteresting event in Sweden. But after Carolina Klüft... people at my work are discussion points for the LJ and whether she can match Denise Lewis this summer! Seems we all love a winner!
t-and-f: Looking for Pocatello results
Hi everybody. I wonder if somebody has the link to the official results of the Idaho State Tie Dye Meet, held in Pocatello on Dec 14. According to the Idaho State Journal website, Stacy Dragila cleared 15-0, along with some other good marks in various events. I haven't been able to find anything at the ISU website so far. A Happy New Year to everybody! Mats Åkerlind Gävle, Sweden
Re: t-and-f: Long jump
The 1999 edition of IAAF Progression of World Best Performances and Official World Records (that edition by Richard Hymans. Earlier editions also edited and researched by Ekkehard zur Megede) states: Ralph Boston's mark was measured at 27-5. (=8.3566). The practice those days, as I understand it, were to measure in 1/4 in. intervals. So it had to be 8.35 when converted to metric. B t w - it's possible that for example Ter-Ovanesiyan's 8.35 might have been 8.358 but was rounded down... That we'll never know. The main difference was of couse the altitude. Boston's mark was made in Modesto. Ter-Ovanesiyan's mark was acheived at the same Mexico City stadium as Bob Beamon one yera later jumped into TF history. I took a look at all Ralph Boston's WR marks. In all, they were 6. 8.21 (26-11 1/4 = 8.2106) Walnut, Aug 12, 1960. Wind: 0.0 8.24 (27-0 1/2 = 8.2423) Modesto, May 27, 1961. Wind: +1.79 8.28 (no imperial measure) Moscow, July 16, 1961. Wind: +1.2 (The record was then broken by Igor Ter-Ovanesiyan who jumped 8.31 in Yerevan in 1962) 8.31 (WR eq.) (no imperial measure) Kingston, Aug 15, 1964. Wind: 0.0 8.34 (measured both metrically and in imperial 27-4 1/4). Los Angeles, Sep 12, 1964. Wind +1.0 8.35 (27-5 = 8.3566) Modesto, May 29, 1965. Wind: 0.0 This was the equalled by Ter-Ovanesiyan and then came Bob Beamon... A few notes from Hyman's book: Boston's WR 8.34 was actually not his winning mark at the 1964 Olympic Trials. In his first jump, he reached 8.49 (27-10 1/4, I think, maybe 1/2...) but with a following wind of +2.6. In 1967, Boston had a narrow foul at a meet in Madrid, measured at 8.56 (28-1) Ter-Ovanesiyan has told Hymans that he at the 1968 USSR Champs in Leninakan (high altitude) had a hairline foul at 8.67 (around 28-5 3/8). Well, that was that. I won't debate measures. The fun part was to write about two such great athletes as Ralph Boston and Igor Ter-Ovanesiyan! Oh, one more thing... Their international placings: Ralph Boston (born 1939): OG 1960 - 1 / 1964 - 2 / 1968 - 3 Igor Ter-Ovanesiyan (born 1938): OG 1960 - 3 / 1964 - 3 / 1968 - 4 / 1972 - dnq for final EurCh: 1958 - 1 / 1962 - 1 / 1966 - 2 / 1969 - 1 / 1971 - 2 Not that bad, really! Of course some of you now wonder who won the remaining Olympic medals 1960-68. 1960 silver: Irv Roberson, USA 1964 gold: Lynn Davies, GBR (who also won the 1966 EurCh) 1968 gold: Bob Beamon, USA. 1968 silver: Klaus Beer, GDR Have a good time Mats Åkerlind Gävle, Sweden ghill wrote: Hmmm, once a statistian, always a statistican (aka, pain in the ass). This raises an interesting bit of history that I can't pin down from exactly at this point, but I know that conversion table say 8.35 is equal to 27-4 3/4, not 27-5. I also know that Boston jumped 27-5. In looking at old TFN Annual Editions (when I was still just a lad) I see that at one point they list Boston as the AR holder at 27-5 and WR holder at 27-04 3/4, so I have to assume that was in the era where the IAAF was still recognizing WRs in English measure, but chose to round down to the mtric equivalent. ??? Anybody have any good facts on this dichotomy? gh From: Mats Åkerlind [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Mats Åkerlind [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 22:06:32 +0100 To: Jared Fletcher [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: t-and-f: Long jump Can't help you with the links. But - the WR was held jointly at 8.35 (27' 5) by Ralph Boston (Modesto 5/29/65) and Igor Ter-Ovanesyan (USR(ARM)) (Mexico City 10/19/67). Mats Åkerlind Gävle, Sweden Jared Fletcher wrote: I was wondering if anyone knew where I might be abel to find video on the net of Bob Beamon and Mike Powell's world record long jumps. While I'm on the subject, who held the world record before Beamon broke it in '68? thanks for the help, Jared _ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
Re: t-and-f: Long jump
Can't help you with the links. But - the WR was held jointly at 8.35 (27' 5) by Ralph Boston (Modesto 5/29/65) and Igor Ter-Ovanesyan (USR(ARM)) (Mexico City 10/19/67). Mats Åkerlind Gävle, Sweden Jared Fletcher wrote: I was wondering if anyone knew where I might be abel to find video on the net of Bob Beamon and Mike Powell's world record long jumps. While I'm on the subject, who held the world record before Beamon broke it in '68? thanks for the help, Jared _ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
Re: t-and-f: Meanwhile back at the hall of fame....
The 1976 OG 3000 Steeple was a great race. The trio of Anders Gärderud of Sweden, Frank Baumgartl of the GDR and Bronislaw Malinowski of Poland kept the tempo at WR schedule. Gäredrud kicked for home with 300 to go, but was challenged at the last barrier by Baumgartl, who then tripped and fell. Gärderud won in a WR 8:08.02. Malinowski barely avoided stepping on Baumgartl and took the silver in No 2 AT 8:09.11. Baumgartl came up to secure the bronze in a NR 8:10.36! (Then add Tapio Kantanen of Finland as 4th with NR 8:12.60 and a few more runners with top marks (Michael Karst wes 5th, I think). Some race I'd say... Mats Åkerlind Gävle, Sweden
Re: t-and-f: Meanwhile back at the hall of fame....
Oerter actually beat the reigning WR holder at all four occasions. (Fortune Gordien in '56, Rink Babka in '60, Ludvik Danek in '64 and Jay Silvester in '68). He also had PB's at the OG in (at least) '68 and perhaps also in '56. (I haven't looked it up, so it's from memory) Mats Åkerlind Paul Fleming wrote: Surprised no one has mentioned Al Oerter's 4 golds in consecutive Olympics (1956-1968). Not sure that he was the favorite in any of those competitions. Paul Fleming
t-and-f: Results from meet in Pocatello?
Hi. Does anybody have the full results from a PV competition in Pocatello on June 26? Stacy Dragila appearently cleared 4.42 / 14' 6. It seems to have been some sort of square/street competition. I'd be happy for the full results or a link to them. Mats Åkerlind Gävle, Sweden
t-and-f: Khadevis Robinson runs fast
He didn't get to start in Paris. But Khadevis Robinson still ran a fast 800 on Friday. He entered the Swedish meet Världsungomsspelen in Gothenburg's Ullevi Stadium (the site of the 1995 Worlds). Robinson won in impressive style, clocking a season's best 1:45.20. That is only 0.05 shy of his PB (if my info is right). Världsungdomsspelen is mainly a junior and youth meet with some 1500 participants during three days. Full results can be found at: http://w1.311.telia.com/~u31110927/res_2002.htm You probably don't need a translation, but still: Fredagens resultat = Results from Friday. Lördag = Saturday. Söndag = Sunday. Häck = Hurdles Hinder = Steeple Höjd = HJ Stav = PV Längd = LJ Tresteg = TJ Kula = SP Diskus = DT (not too hard to figure...) Slägga = HT Spjut = JT If you wonder over other details, contct me off-list. Mats Åkerlind Gävle, Sweden
Re: t-and-f: Seeding at State meet
Why do the lanes have to be seeded this way? Why not do it like they do in the Olympics, Worlds, other international champioships and in basically all national chapionships i Europe? There the lanes 3-4-5-6 are given by draw to the four fastest times (or in some cases to a mix of semi winners and times) and the lanes 1-2-7-8 to the other finalists. Considering different wind conditions, tactics etc, this has proved to be a good system. Besides, I don't really get which system you'd like to have. As you describe it, it seems that the LSU system is corresponding to your views. But I guess that you just made a typo error. Mats Åkerlind Gävle, Sweden Jay Stuckey wrote: I am a track coach in Louisisana and have a question concerning the seeding of races at our State meet. I know that with an eight lane track, sprints should be seeded 4-5-3-6-2-7-1-8. Our State meet is run at LSU with a nine lane track. All sprints are seeded 5-6-4-7-3-8-2-9-1. I think it should be 5-4-6-3-7-2-8-1-9. On a track with an even number of lanes, the fastest runner is always seeded to be looking at the second fastest runner. Our seeding throws that out the window. The fastest is in the middle, but the second fastest is seeded INSIDE of the fastest--I submit, a distinct advantage to chase your best adversary. The 5-4-6-3-7-2-8-1-9 seeding is the default seetings in the Hy-Tek program which is used at our State meet. Worse yet, the 800 m. run is seeded 1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9. What are some of the other states running? Jay Stuckey Sumner High School Kentwood, Louisiana [EMAIL PROTECTED]
t-and-f: Where do I find Montana meet results?
Does somebody have the results from yesterday's Al Manuel Invitational in Missoula, Mt.? I've been to the UM home page but can't get any info from it. Thanks in advance Mats Åkerlind Gävle, Sweden
t-and-f: European Record and near WR by Christian Olsson
Swede Christian Olsson set a new European Record in the Triple Jump and was very near the WR on Tuesday night. After winning the European Championships in Vienna on Sunday with 17.54 (57 ft. 6 1/2 in), the 22 year old went home to Gothenburg, and improved! Olsson won the EuroJump Meeting in the Scandinavium arena (site of the European Indoor Champs in 1974 and 1984) with a jump of 17,80 (app. 58 ft 5 in.). This means a new European Indoor Record, just 3 cm (1 inch and fractions) shy of the WR. This was an improvement of his Swedish record from the Swedish Championships i Malmö with 20 cm (=8 in.) From a US viewpoint: Jeff Hartwig won the PV with 5.80 m Full results can be found at: www.gfif.se/tavlingar/resultat/reseurojump02.htm Mats Åkerlind Gävle, Sweden
t-and-f: Metric vs Imperial vs lack of knowledge
Once more the discussion of imperial vs. metric has emerged. I know that I will stir up some turbulence with this one, but anyway - here I go... I've been a list member for quite a while (3 years - +, can it be that long?). And having read all these posts and having provided some myself, I've come to a somewhat disturbing conclusion. It's not a case of metric versus imperial. It's a case of knowledge versus ignorance. I can admit that I skip some posts by just looking at who sent them. I know that they will be filled with pseudo discussions, name calling and allegations. At the same time I find interesting posts. Normally these concern the sport itself. I get results and interesting facts. But these posts rarely get any attention. It seems that a number of list members, members who write frequently and with great enthusiasm / fire, wouldn't recognize a great result if they were run over by it in the freeway. Sometimes it is said that the reason for this is that the list is made up of US HS and college people. But I rarely see anything on that thread either. (Yes, I see some. Especially during XC season. And people like Ed Grant can bring life into a state's TF. (B t w - is there anybody on the list who keeps track of what happens in my old state - NH? It's hard to follow what happens there, if one lives in Sweden...)) But - for a number of list members, it doesn't seem to matter whether a result comes in metric or imperial. Whether it's HS, college or international. They can't relate to it and / or they don't care. It's more interesting to be a muckraker... Take the IAAF / IOC vs. USATF controversy. Dick Pound states an opinion of his organization. A lot of people start to attack him, instead of looking into the case. Fortunately some posts have called for moderation, but it's been a sad discussion and one that doesn't help US TF. (You notice that I don't enter the discussion itself? I maybe will, if we get to a standard of discussion worth the name.) At the same time, some posts just get by unnoticed. A short note about Joachim Olsen putting 21.48. Hey - that equals 70 ft. 4 1/2 in. That is basically some distance that The big O could have delivered. (Yes, I know that he had his 75 in El Paso...). What does this mark by Joachim imply? What about this 17.60 TJ by Swede Christian Olsson? Well, I suppose that you get my point. More talk about marks and results. Less low talking... I have my Swedish perspective. That does not exclude an international perspective. You all can start from your perspective and broaden it from there. B t w - Stefan Holm jumped 2.30 at the Swedish Championships today and it was a quite nice meet in Birmingham. Check it out. Mats Åkerlind Gävle, Sweden
t-and-f: WL Triple Jump by Christian Olsson
Swede Christian Olsson had a great result today at the Swedish Championships. Olsson won the TJ with a World Leading 17.60 (equals almost 57 feet 9 inches - a tenth of an inch shy). This mark is of course also a new Swedish record. Winners and best results. Men 60: 1. Patrik Lövgren 6.64 3000: 1. Joakim Johansson 8:07.5m PV: 1. Patrik Kristiansson 5.56 2. Tom E Olsen NOR 5.44 TJ: 1. Christian Olsson 17.60 2. Anton Andersson 16.39 SP: 1. Jimmy Nordin 19.48 Women 60: 1. Annika Amundin 7.43 3000: 1. Malin Öhrn 9:28.45 HJ: 1. Lena Johansson 1.80 LJ: 1. Carolina Klüft 6.20 SP: 1. Linda-Marie Mårtensson 16.59 Mats Åkerlind Gävle, Sweden
Re: t-and-f: What track can learn from Winter Games
Darkness and javelin competitions can happen at big competitions as well. At the 1990 World Juniors in Plovdiv, Bulgaria, the men's decathlon was extremely delayed. (They ran the 1500 after midnight). The re-construction of the stadium was not finished and the electric floodlights were still at the ground. So - the last jav group was throwing in darkness. Cars at the runway, some light from the scoreboards. The officials were using flashlights to find the javelins... The 1500 was also interesting, with the runners appearing every now and then into the headlights of the next parked Lada car... Who won? Well, Eric Kaiser of Germany outkicked Jarkko Finni of Finland to secure his title with 7762 to 7698. David Bigham of the UK was third. Looking further down the list we b t w find Sebastian Chmara - 7. Paul Meier - 8. Sebastian Levicq - 12 and Tomas Dvorak - 17 (6710). Best US athlete was Paul Foxson (16th with 6737) while Stephen Dunphey was a DNF after three events.(2182). The reason of the delay was an example of disastrous planning. The second day of the dec was held at the same day as both the men's PV final (Galfione won) and the women's HJ quali (which on two runways crossed the two runways of the PV! This + a lack of improvisation (fixed groups for the JT which meant they started too late with that event) led to an absurd competition. But - now, almost 12 years later, it's fun to recall. Mats Åkerlind Gävle, Sweden [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 2/14/02 11:23:39 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Sorry. Everyone seems to be agreed on a morbid fascination with watching an athlete pluck a spear out of the air. Twice, I've also seen an official do that, but with some part of his body other than the hands. Not quite as dangerous, but I remember attending a late-running competition where officials had to deal with spotting the javelin in a landing area that was lit only by automobile headlights. I believe they all survived, but there were some anxious moments. Walt Murphy
t-and-f: Impressive jumping double
Sweden's triple jumper Christian Olsson has started this winter in an impressive fashion. And not just as a triple jumper... On Wednesday, Olsson won the TJ at the international GE Gala in Stockholm with an impressing 17.28 (equals 56' 8 1/4, if I remember my converting right). Yesterday (Saturday), Olsson tested the High Jump at a national meet in his hometown Gothenburg. Most for fun. The result - a win with 2.28 (eq. approx. 7' 5 3/4). More Swedish results can be found at the Swedish Federation's excellent site www.friidrott.se. Mats Åkerlind
Re: t-and-f: little did we realize...
Samson Kimobwa's 27:30.5 was run in Helsinki on June 30, 1977. Mats Åkerlind Gävle, Sweden Prof. Uri Goldbourt wrote: What about Kipchumba's WR (27:30.5?). UG -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: ùáú 29 ñôèîáø 2001 02:20 Subject: t-and-f: little did we realize... when the couple of thousand of us who saw the hot 10K at STanford on May 4 (Meb's AR), who'da thunk that Abraham Chebii's 27:04.20 would stand up as the World Leader? I don't have time to do the research, but since the '84 OG wasn't won in WL time, I can only surmise that this is the first time since then that the 10K WL was set on U.S. soil. And it's probably only the second time ever. Which makes the big question one of, Cordner, were you at the Kusocinski day in '32, making you almost assuredly the only person on the planet to see both WLs? gh
t-and-f: Swedish Team for Edmonton
Sweden has selected the following team for the World Championships in Edmonton. It includes Indoor World Champions Kajsa Bergqvist and Stefan Holm (both HJ), World Indoor Bronze winner Staffan Strand (HJ) and 21 year ol d TJ sensation Christian Olsson (17.49 this year). MEN 400: Jimisola Laursen (45.68) Marathon: Anders Szalkai (2:12.43) 110H. Robert Kronberg (13.35) HJ: Stefan Holm (2.31), Staffan Strand (2.31) PV: Patrik Kristiansson (5.83), Martin Eriksson (5.65) LJ: Mattias Sunneborn (8.15) TJ: Christian Olsson (17.49) SP: Jimmy Nordin (20.07) HT: Bengt Johansson (76.32) 4 x 400: Jimisola Laursen, Magnus Aare, Mikael Jakobsson, Johan Wissman, Johan Lannefors W50K: Bengt Bengtsson (3:56.27), Fredrik Svensson (3:57.31) WOMEN Marathon: Marie Söderström-Lundberg (2:31.28) 100H. Susanna Kallur (12.82) HJ: Kajsa Bergqvist (2.01) PV: Hanna-Mia Persson (4.21) TJ: Camilla Johansson (14.05) HT: Cecilia Nilsson (64.53) Of the Pre-designed, four have withdrawn because of injuries: Patrik Bodén (Men JT). Henrik Dagård (Men Dec.). Erica Johansson (Women LJ). Anna Söderberg (Women DT). Mats Åkerlind Gävle, Sweden
t-and-f: Swedish Relay
A while back we had a discussion on the net over the rules of the Swedish Relay. I couldn't reply, since I was on vacation. Neither could Mr. A Lennart Julin of the ATFS. He is (as many of you know) a lading international statistics and rules expert. He foloows the list, but cannot enter the discussion himself. He has asked me to post the following message concerning the Swedish Relay: SWEDISH RELAY - THE FACTS Recently there has on the mailing list been a slightly confused discussion concerning the Swedish relay that Michael Johnson was going to participate in at a couple of stops on his international farewell tour. It was somewhat bemusing to see so many Americans being so consternated by this concept. Because while the strange medley relays have become almost completely extint in other countries the US - alone - is still promoting such events even for senior elite athletes, at least on the collegiate scene. Furthermore there is no apparent hesitancy in claiming world record status for performances - indoors or outdoors - in the sprint and distance medley events that dont exist (or even have been heard about) anywhere outside of the US borders. Now for the facts about the Swedish relay: Origin It was invented around 1910 in Sweden. Name It has more or less from the start been known in Sweden as Svensk stafett, which is the exact equivalent of the English expression Swedish relay. (So the assumed parallel to expressions like French fries is not correct.) History It immediately became popular in our country, especially in matches (club as well as international) and youth competitions. It never received official championship status for seniors but official national records were registered from 1910 until 1980 when it was decided to restrict official Swedish records to events where there were world records. The final Swedish record was an 1:53.6 run in 1973 by the KA 2 IF club. However, Svensk stafett is still today an official national championship event for girls age 17/18 and it is run quite a lot in other youth competitions as well as in local club matches for seniors. In the old days the Swedish relay also was a popular event for finishing off international meets by showing off the exotic foreigners one more time. Here it should be pointed out that the international scene actually was VERY different from the current one until quite recently. The Grand Prix circuit started as late as in 1985 and way into 1970s there was nothing even remotely resembling a circuit. E.g. when Jim Ryun was in his prime in 1967 his European competitions were a couple of international matches. However, there was a tradition (at least since the 1920s) that small groups of US athletes were selected by the AAU and sent to Europe - mostly Scandinavia - to compete for a month or so on mostly small local tracks spread around the countryside. Such a US group normally was some kind of All Star Team composed of perhaps a high jumper, a shot putter, a hurdler, an 800m-runner and a couple of sprinters - most of them world leaders in their respective events. Despite being so diverse it was still possible to from such a group create a decent team for a medley relay like the Swedish relay where they could face perhaps a couple of local teams and a pick-up team of other foreigners. This was something the fans loved. Outside of Sweden the event caught on somewhat in the rest of Scandinavia (especially Norway and Denmark) as well as in Germany where it was called Schwedenstaffel (also a direct translation). That the concept still has some spark in it was very recently proven by the fact that the IAAF decided to have the Swedish relay as the only relay on the programme of the World Youth Championships. Records Of course it has never been an official world record event, but that doesnt mean that not some very good times have been run. The best time (pre-DN Galan 2001) a quick search could reveal was a 1:50.0 run in Basel (Switzerland) on 20 August 1949 by a US team consisting of Jim Fuchs, Craig Dixon, Andy Stanfield and Mal Whitfield. That was an all-star team if there ever was one: Jim Fuchs - shot put world record one month earlier Craig Dixon - world leader in the 110m Hurdles Andy Stanfield - world leader in the 200m (and World record holder and Olympic champion to be) Mal Whitfield - world leader in the 400m and 800m (and twice Olympic 800m champion) The quality of the performance could also be understood if you realise that 11+21+33+45 equals 1:50! And we are talking about something that happened over half a century ago in a world still recuperating from WWII! Rules This is how the Swedish relay always (?) has been run in Sweden: First: Run in lanes. Second: Athlete allowed 10m acceleration, run in lanes. Third: Exchange still in lanes, no acceleration, after having passed both the end of the exchange zone and the break line (which is the normal
t-and-f: Excellent discus result
Finnish Discus Thrower Timo Tompuri had a great performance in Helsingborg, Finland on Sunday. The 32 year old Tompuri threw 69.62 (228 ft. 5 in.)This bettered his own PB 65.13 with 4.49 m, and the 22 year old Finnish record (Markku Tuokko) with exactly 1.50 m. Mats Åkerlind Gävle, Sweden
t-and-f: Typo error - Tampuri
Oops. Of course it's Helsingborg, Sweden. The venue is b t w known for it's excellent wind conditions, which might explain Tompuri's result to some part. But the guy's been very consistent this year so he might be considered as a dark horse come Edmonton. Mats Åkerlind
[Fwd: t-and-f: European Record by Feofanova. Greene 9.91]
Actually Kenteris was very impressive. His 20.10 came after an unbalanced end of the turn where he almost went out into the lane outside of his (he ran on lane 4). His last 80 were strong stuff. Mats Åkerlind The Athens Grand Prix exceeded even the most optimist expectations as about 3 spectators had the chance to watch some of the most brilliant world athletes to break one European Record and bring a storm of World Leading marks. Svetlana Feofanova of Russia is the new pole vault record holder with 4, 57 m. Maurice Greene (9" 91.), Said Sief (3'30"78), Anier Garcia (13"30.), Katharine Merry (49"58.), Zhanna Pintusevich (10"93.), Tatyana Lebedeva (14,91 m.), Nicoleta Grasu (68, 31 m.). Sammy Kipketer (12.59.34) set world leading marks for this season. But of course, the pick of the enthousiasm came with the end of the 200 m. race, where the Olympic Champion Costas Kenteris won in a world leading time 20" 10., beating Obikwelu, Heard and Da Silva. Full results: http://www.athletix.net Michalis Nikitaridis
t-and-f: New Junior WR in the Javelin
I thought that some of my Nordic colleagues might hav reported. But anyway - On Thursday night - Nordic Challenge, a match between Norway - Sweden - Finland, began in Fana outside of Bergen, Norway. This was the first leg of three in a match between the three countries (one leg in Uppsala, Sweden on June 12, followed by one in Kuortane, Finland). The big result in the first part was a superb Junior World Record in the Javelin by Norway's 19 year old Andreas Thorkildsen. He threw 83.37 (275' 2) in pouring rain and cold temperature of around 50°F. This gave him a clear win from world class throwers as Nowegian Pål Arne Fagernes, and Finnish duo Harri Haatainen and Teemu Paasanen. Mats Åkerlind Gävle, Sweden
t-and-f: Rabbits...
The history of rabbits is an old one. I haven't had the chance to look into the matter, but I can give you one historical example. In the early 1940's Sweden was the powerhouse of running (not surprising, since almost all other countries were at war. Germany, France, Finland the UK and many others after the 1939 season and the US after the 1941 season. Still the Swedes advanced the sport. Runners like Gunder Hägg (16 World records 1941-45, including 10 in the 1942 season), Arne Andersson and Henry Kälarne raised the level a lot. Since Gunder Hägg competed for my home club, Gefle IF, I have been able to study how he (and other runners) set up races. The rules didn't allow rabbits, but there were ways around this. Often good young runners were used to make pace in the early stages. They then dropped back, but finished the race. (Sometimes you could even let one early leader drop out completely an still get the record recognized, if the starting field was considered large and competitive) One example: On Sep. 4, 1942, Gunder Hägg lowered his own (and Arne Andersson's) WR in the Mile from 4:06.2 to 4:04.6. Leading the first 440 y in quick 56.0 was a 22-year old runner from Gunder's club Gefle IF. That runner, Henry Eriksson, dropped back and finished the race in 4:35.0. For a young runner like Henry Eriksson, this was both a help for his more famous club mate, and practicing to go at a fast pace. Henry Eriksson told me that he often got the order. Make pace for 600 and then finish. Later that would be make pace for 1000 and then finish. In late 1945 he was told to make pace for French star Marcel Hansenne at a race in Gävle. Make pace for 1000 and then do whatever you want to. Henry won the race in 3:49.8, which placed him as World No. 10 for the year. In 1946 he won the silver at the Europeans and then in 1948 - he won the Olympic gold in London. He meant that this schooling was very important in making him a champion. To dare to run faster than you normally would, to test your limits and at the same time loose some respect for the established runners. The history of rabbits certainly is oldar than this. I suppose that somebody can fill you in. Otherwise I might come back to haunt you... (But since I'll be in the US between June 18 and July 2, I'll be out of touch with the list for a while) Have a good summer Mats Åkerlind Gävle, Sweden
t-and-f: Webb's 3:53
Now I've been listening to all the talk about Alan Webb for the whole season. After having seen him Live (yes, we get Pre Classic Live here in Europe, courtesy of Eurosport) - I agree. Alan Webb is impressive! 3:53 and fighting spirit. OK, it's a long way to go before he reaches the world's best. But he starts from a good level, to say the least. BTW - despite all the fuzz around Webb - it'd been nice to see the TV race from a more objective viewpoint... Did anybody notice that El Guerrouj won in 3:49.92? Mats Åkerlind Gävle, Sweden
t-and-f: Measuring is hard - or?
Even though I know that I am throwing gasoline on a fire which at the moment just lies dormant... The following excerpt is from the Swedish TF site. Mr. A Lennart Julin follows all Swedish athletes in the US and he is normally capable of delivering all their results to the site a day after they are posted at the net. He is one of the world's top statisticians, and a specialist in (among other things) accuracy of result reporting. This note was found at the site a few hours ago (www.friidrott.se/friidrott/resultat01/senaste01.htm) SWEDISH TEXT SANTA BARBARA, CA 5.5 M Diskus: 1) Mats Laamanen Sävedalen 49.83. (Enl Mats själv var resultatet 51.36 officiellt mätt i meter! 49.83 är omräkning från det fot/tum-resultat av 163-6 som står i resultatlistan. Förmodligen var detta en felskrivning för de 168-6 som motsvarar 51.36. Det vore en nåd att silla bedja om att amerikanerna skulle ansluta sig till hela den övriga världen och sluta krångla med fot och tum i friidrottsresultat ...) END SWEDISH TEXT What does it say here? (I assume that you don't normally read neither Swedish, nor Italian (referring to the Fiasconaro post a while back... (That's no taunting, I'm well aware of the fact that Swedish is the mother-tongue of only app 9 million)) Well, it says: First the venue and date. Then the event Men Discus. 1) Mats Laamanen is easy - he won. Sävedalen is his Swedish club. 49.83 is the result. So far OK. But the follows the paranthesis - I translate: According to Mats himself, the result was 51.36, officially measured in metric! 49.83 is a translation of the feet/inches-result 163-6 which is in the result list. Appearently this was a misprint of the 168-6 which correspond to 51.36. It would be a mercy to beg for, that the Amricans would join the rest of the world and stop fuzzing around with feet and inches in their Track results... Well... I have to agree with Lennart. Measuring in metric, translating to imperial, just so that we have to translate back again... I feels stupid. At least it would be a mercy to beg for, that the result lists always would contain both measurements. Then we could see if a result is wrong somewhere. Not as it is made in this case. Every extra translation means a risk of doing something wrong! DEFENDING IMPERIAL... At the same time, I must defend one aspect of the imperial measuring. I find it plain stupid with the 1600 and 3200 meters! Either switch to 1500 / 3000 or keep the Mile / 2 Mile! What is next? 4850 m instead of the 3M and 9650 m instead of the 6M? The best thing with the Mile / 2 Mile events is that they after all are somewhat differing from their metric counterparts. Events of their own But 1600 instead of 1609 (the Mile) - that's just annoying, as is 3200 instead of 3218 m. Mats Åkerlind
Re: t-and-f: Follow the money?....one last post...I promise..:)
Indeed, Marcello Fiasconaro was an interesting runner. Born 1949 in South Africa as son to an Italian soldier who had been deatined in RSA during WW II. Was a rugby player who took up 400 to improve his speed in the winter 1970-71. His third race landed at 46.5! Held an Italian passport and went to Italy to compete internationally. Ran 45.5 in 1971, missed the EurCh gold to Dave Jenkins with a few hundreths and was ranked No 7 by TFN. Ran 45.6 in 1972 but missed the OG (injury, I think). Went to 800 in 1973 and broke the WR with 1:43.7 at a race in Milano on June 27. (He led himself all the way with 51.2 at 400). Ranked No. 3 by TFN (behind Rick Wohlhuter (who had WR'd the 880 in 1:44.6) and South Africa's Danie Malan). In 1974 he was a favorite to win the EurCh 800 in Rome. However he was not in super shape. (1:46.1 before the Champs) He tried to make pace with 50.1 at 400. At 600 he was passed by Yugoslavia's that year super good Luciano Susanj. Susanj went on to win with 1:44.07 (then #4 World AT), while Fiasconaro faded to 6th with 1:46.3. It was a close race behind Susanj. The silver went to the 19 year old Steve Ovett with 1:45.8 (I only have the 1/100 for Susanj) and 8th place was clocked at 1:46.3! (That was Willi Wulbeck - World Champion 9 years later in Helsinki!) After that Fiasconaro had injury problems and never returned to top shape. But he was an interesting runner, a tough front runner at both 400 (if possible at that distance) and 800. Somebody who reads this might have more info on Fiasconaro then me, with my Swedish perspective. Mats Åkerlind Wayne T. Armbrust wrote: P.F.Talbot wrote: Juantorena aside, if you look at the 800 as an event, the 800/1500m types come out on top of the 400/800m types. Other than Juanto there hasn't been anyone who has had a shot at making an Olympic or World Championship final in both the 400 and 800 in the last 30 years. What about Fiascanaro (sp?) from South Africa who ran for Italy while South Africa was suspended from the IAAF? He was very good in both a few years before Juantorena started running the 800. -- Wayne T. Armbrust, Ph.D. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Computomarx 3604 Grant Ct. Columbia MO 65203-5800 USA (573) 445-6675 (voice FAX) http://www.Computomarx.com Know the difference between right and wrong... Always give your best effort... Treat others the way you'd like to be treated... - Coach Bill Sudeck (1926-2000)
t-and-f: Doping, but also more stuff
Looking through the posts at this list is a strange experience. It seems that some members prefer to speak out in haste, rather than getting informed. They prefer to throw out accusations and vague criticism, rather than meeting argument with argument. Im right now disappointed at the discussion concerning the USA and doping. Members Walt Murphy and Ben Hall have accused IAAF VP Arne Ljungqvist of being anti-US (Murphy) and a witch hunter, McCarthy-style (Hall). As a personal friend of Arne Ljungqvist, this makes me sad and even angry. Could you list members please refrain from attacking the messenger and avoiding the issue. I must say the same thing as Uri Goldbourt. Arne Ljungqvist is a man of great integrity. He was a world class high jumper in the 1950s (not a thing which automatically makes him a great person ? just look at the drug case of Javier Sotomayor). Arne Ljungqvist then became a professor of medicine and has advanced to the vice presidency of the IAAF. He has often been very outspoken on drugs and in opposition to Primo Nebiolo and others. What Arne Ljungqvist wants is a clean sport, nothing else. So ? please ? understand that Ljungqvist is addressing what we in Europe see as a big problem. It is reported that there have been a number of doping cases that the US federation has not reported to the IAAF. All other federations must report ? so why not the USA? And with this background ? can we trust that the US teams are clean? Or are they simple cheats, aided by their federation? Of course ? nobody wants to believe this. I know the problems with US law and how to adjust it to international rules. This is the main problem. But for all other countries, its a hard thought to aceept that they must compete against an athlete who can cheat and then hide behind a national legal system. Or ? even worse - behind a national federation protecting the cheats. This was done in the GDR and other Eastern bloc countries. Id hate to think that the same thing is done in the USA. But ? when I saw the results from Lisbon, I couldnt help thinking about the US athletes the same way I used to think about the Soviet and GDR athletes in the old days. And for a guy who has lived in the USA ? thats a depressing thought. So ? my question is: How should the USA tackle this doping problem? Do you expect the rest of the world to accept that while they are expected to report their cases and get them convicted, the USA should not? Or is there another solution? Or ? should doping be allowed? In that case - on what grounds and what doping should / should not be allowed? Lets keep the discussion to that level, instead of stooping down to cheap, low-class McCarthy crap. (I will choose to see it as a satirical attempt or a joke. I believe that Ben Halls real standpoint has a lot more to bring to the discussion.) Walt Murphy has already explained his point in a way that I to some extent can see and accept. Mats kerlind [EMAIL PROTECTED] P.S. The most stupid thing about all this. I came home to sit down and write a point about the World Indoors About real TF. About a good US performance. About surprises. About cross country high jumping! (The jumpers had to pass the round track, a camera rail, some cables, two runways for PV and LJ/TJ (with competitions going on ), an 18 in. drop and the 60 track (with competition going on) before making their attempts! No wonder that 2.32 (=7 7 3/8) was enough for a win (by a Swede who has been tested 8 times since Sydney). About Borzhakovskiys impressing 800. About a 1500 in 3:51 that still was extremely exciting (after 70 and 2:21 it had to be an interesting last 400!). About the fact that Germany went home with one single medal! But I wont. I doubt that anybody is interested and Ive lost the will to use the time.I have fallen into the trap myself But as somebody wrote. It seems that the list nowadays just brings out the cheap shots. No real TF. And now Im a part of it. Ill give the list another chance, but I start to think that I can do better without it. P.P.S. Just read GH's post about the Lisbon 1500. A superb account!
t-and-f: So you understand...
Sometimes I'm amazed at the narrowness of the list's topics and horizons. Tonight, we've learned tha Svetlana Feofanova jumped a new European Record of 4.65 in the women's PV. For you who don't understand it, it means that she cleared 15' 3 1/8". Ivan Pedroso jumped a decent 8.31, which means 27' 3 1/4". Javier Sotomayor cleared 2.31 = 7' 10 7/8". Tatyana Lebedeva jumped 14.89 in the women's TJ = 48' 10 1/4 (plus fractions...) Tim Montgomery won the 60 m in 6.53. That translates into quite a good time, though I don't know the imperial equivalent. (Should be something like 828 grains of sand through the hourglass). The rest of the measurements were taken completely out of my head, no paper help. So if I'm incorrect, please give the correct results in imperial. My point: It'd be nice to see more about actual T F. One example - Dragila challenged by Feofanova. Dragila is clearly the favourite, if she enters. But the challenge will be tough, having seen Feofanova clear 4.65 with space to the bar. So - more international thoughts and speculations. One doesn't exclude the other. But some of you must react to some results outside of the US. I remember last summer when Alekna's big throws were mailed to the list - even in imperial. Hardly a reaction. Then big surprise and some protests when he got the AOY award... One more thing. I watched the Athens (Pireus) meet on TV tonight. It's sad to see a top class meet the despite world leading athletes still shows such bad arrangements. No distance beyond 60 was legal. The rules state that there should be a cone every 2 m (=7') in the turns. Here it was at least 6 m (20'). In the first turn it was no problem though. There was so much sand from the LJ/TJ pit spread out over lanes 1-2 that the athletes went wide... Mats kerlind "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
t-and-f: Red Raider results?
Hi out there. Does anybody know how to find the complete results from the Red Raider Indoor Classic, in Lubbock, Texas? The meet started Friday and the Texas Tech homepage so far only brings a recap of their own performances. Mats kerlind "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: t-and-f: WR-setting non-participants
Well, because of WW II - Swedish duo Gunder Hgg (15 WR's 1941-1945 from 1500-5000 m + 1 Relay WR ) and Arne Andersson (4 WR's in the 1500 - 1 Mile 1942-1944) Both were DQ'd in 1946 by the Swedish federation for breaking the amateur rules and thus never went on to 1948 and the London Games. Mats kerlind "Mcewen, Brian T" wrote: While reading over some indoor record lists I perused the World Indoor Records ... noting the 3000m record by Daniel Komen of 7:24.xx. He also set the 5k World Record a few years ago ... and still holds the outdoor 3k and 2 mile WR's. The reason it was interesting, is that Komen has never run in an Olympics, but has been around for two of them. The 2 mile/3k are not Olympic events ... but the 5k IS. How many athletes can you name who have set a WR in ANY track and field event who never went to the Olympics? Include non-standard events too (because the WR-setters in the 1000, 2000 and 3000 for the last 30 years have all run in the Games, excepting Komen). The easiest answer (so I'll post it before fifteen other people do) is another multi-WR setting Kenyan distance phenom - Henry Rono. Try it and see how many we can list.
Re: t-and-f: How good was a 10.07 100m in 1972.
I'm stepping in late, I realize. But anyway. I have to object to "DGS's" statement about training more than one Olympic Games (cycle) and sports regime. This somehow implies that he believes that the US sprinters have some God sent talent that would make it impossible for anybody from, say, Europe, to beat them if the backgrounds were equal. This reasoning is not holding up. (Then why does the USA have to keep importing foreign athletes into the school sports systems?) Borzow was probably doped, but so were the vast majority of the US sprinters of the day. Remeber that the USSR and the GDR imported their doping science from the USA. An one Olympic Games cycle? Let's check Borzow in 1972. Born on Oct. 20, 1949, he was still shy of 23 years. Equal in age to his American counterparts, or even younger in some cases. So much for that advantage... Some information about Borzow's background in 1972. He emerged at the scene in 1969. Then he first won the USSR Champs and then a hair thin European Champs title, still a teenager. (His ECh win was won 0.01 in front of French sprinter Alain Sarteur. The time was 10.4e into a -2.7 wind). But he also sensatioanlly equalled the European Record with a hand timed 10.0. In 1970 he had injury problems, but won the USSR-USA match in Leningrad. (The USA was represented by Ben Vaughan (yes, a white sprinter) and Ivory Crockett, with John Carlos out because of injury). In 1971, Borzow was ranked World No. 1 by TFN after winning the ECh in Helsinki (an impressive 10.26 into -1.3, with the silver winner Gerhard Wucherer of FRG at 10.48. Borzow also won the 200 with 20.30 (0.0), 0.41 in front of FRG:s Franz-Peter Hofmeister.) Borzow that summer again ran a hand timed 10.0 (Eur Rec equalled). He once met the top US sprinters. That happened at the USA-USSR (+ guests) match in Berkeley. Borzow won into a head wind with 10.5, with Jim Green second (10.5 - a strange time, since all photos show that Borzow is around 4 ft in front), Lennox Miller (10.6) third, Don Quarrie (10.7) fourth, Del Meriwether (10.7) fifth and Aleksandr Korneljuk (10.8) sixth. And then it was 1972... Double Olympic Golds and so on. But I admit, I would have loved to see a 100 final with Ed Hart and Rey Robinson in it. Especially Hart was good, proven by his last leg in the relay. My opinion is that Valeriy Borzow is one of the great sprinters of all time. Also the rest of his career proved that, with more European Champs golds, six 60 titles indoors, a new Olympic medal etc. It might be true that it's harder to find top class sprinters among white Europeans. Actually the Eastern bloc proved that. If it was only a question of doping and some secret training, then why didn't they mass-produce the likes of Borzow? No, because in the end you also need that extra talent - Borzow, to strike gold. He was a product of an efficient system, but also a great talent who would have succeeded in any system. And finally - don't get tempted to see the world through those old good-bad, west-east, US-commie, type of glasses. You should know that we Swedes have had our fair share of doping problems. And we got almost all our impulses from the USA... Merry Christmas Mats kerlind [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 12/21/00 7:49:38 AM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Actually Hines ran an auto timed 10.03 in his Sacramento race in 68 .. And Hayes auto time in Tokyo was 10.05 .. Nonetheless Borzov's 10.07 placed him right at the mark with the best of his time .. And even today, there are only a hand full of sprinters that can say they can step on the track with confidence and run faster .. 10.07 made this year's American sprint squad for the games !!! And 10.07 would have placed 4th and just out of the money at this year's games .. A quarter century later .. OK stop running down this endless road of who could do what, when and where. There is no definitive answer. And the facts are being misconstrued. Borzov's 10.07 is no where near the times run in Sacramento. And we can never discount the variable of "level of competition." Every champion was a champion of that time and era, very few transcend the time gap, but not all. And Borzov was not one of them. What if in the 60's and 70's the American sprinters could train beyond one Olympic Games, or had the sports regime of the eastern Bloc? We would not know Valery Borzov. DGS The G.O.A.T.
Re: t-and-f: Interval Training
I assume that the training session mentioned in the post represents a newer type of interval training than Gerschler's. This since the WR in the late 1930's was just under 3:50 (the 3:47.8 by Jack Lovelock stood between 1936 and 1941). Anyone knows any details of Gerschler's training back then? Mats Åkerlind Ken Parker wrote: "Classical interval running training was developed in Germany in the 1930s, and the complete workout is fairly tightly structured and monitored by stopwatches (Reilly, 1981). The original form of interval running as conceived by the German coach Gerschler and physiologist Reindall was to repeat a set distance in a set time with a fixed recovery jog between (Watts Wilson, n.d.). A typical session for a 1500-meter runner with a personal best of 3:40 could be 8 repetitions of 400 meters in 57 to 58 seconds, with a recovery jog of 300 meters covered in 3 minutes (Alford, Holmes, Hill Wilson, 1985). " More...from: http://www.hkpe.net/training/runninge/runningConducting.htm. Ken Parker [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.runnersweb.com/running.html http://www.runnersweb.com/running.html A running and triathlon resource site
Re: t-and-f: Embarassment
Suddenly responses start to come. A question to especially Andy Ferrara and also to some others. The opinion here in Europe is that the US would have scored the weakest performance ever, even if the Champs had been held, say, in late June (when the Europeans haven't peaked yet and it's really out of season for most athletes from the rest of the world.) I mentioned this in a previous post and it's time to ask the question again. Is the US really having a decline or is it just a temporary thing. (And then I'm not referring to Santiago, but to the World Best prior to Santiago). By the way. The US got one medal, sort of. Niklas Arrhenius took the silver in the DT. Niklas is born and raised in the USA. His father Anders was an international top class SP man in the 1970's for Sweden (he stayed in the US after his college days) and Niklas has kept his Swedish passport. I cannot be sure, but I think that Niklas got more encouragement from the Swedish federation than did, say, Travis Pedleton. I might be wrong, but I think that the US shouldn't overlook the importance of various international meets. This is where you get the important knowledge of how to prepare for and behave in "the big arena". This has been seen as weak point in many US events and the USATF has sent out squads of upcoming runners to European meets. (In my home city, we've seen Steve Holman, Bob Kennedy and Rich Kenah among many others). Thus, it's sad to see the US waste a super opportunity to school it's upcoming stars. And - it was a great meet in Santiago. Many top results and apart from Monique Henderson, not one single US athlete would have won a sure gold. (Well, with good baton handling, the boys' 4 x 100 had been hard to beat, and the US combination of talent and guts would have been nice to see in the other relays as well). But apart from that, the US athletes actually weren't that missed in Santiago. To be nasty - if the spoiled child doesn't want to come to the party, let the spoiled child stay home. And with Andy Ferrara's view, I could see the US team staying home from Edmonton as well. Then we would miss some good athletes, but also some antics à la HSI, 400 heat diva fashions and more. (But - honestly - I'd rather see the US there. Stacy Dragila again, the fighting spirit of Nick Hysong, Andy Bloom's happiness from Doha in a WCh, Marion's smile after winning and the relay teams... etc. Yes, please come, all is forgiven!) But as they say - you fight a fight when it comes up, not just when all the odds are in your favor. That should have been the motto for the US in Santiago, not this poor showing. Mats Åkerlind [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If you think the Olympics were bad, check out the performance of the US team at the World Jrs in Santiago, www.nationalscholastic.org - thus far, 10/21, the BEST US effort has been a couple 4th place finishes. NO medals!! What's going on In the last two World Jrs, the USA won the unofficial team competition in '92 and was second in '96 with the Men finishing first. Only an awesome performance by the Chinese women kept the USA from taking the overall title for a second time. Didn't anyone at USATF nor any member of the coaching staff ever make a few calls to the kids to see if they were in shape and training?
t-and-f: US medal in Santiago
Actually the US got one medal in Santiago. Rocky Danners took the bronze in the PV. Mats Åkerlind
Re: t-and-f: One US winner in Santiago - sort of...
letes". 13.60 in the 110H by Yuniel Hernandez of Cuba is one example. So - is my worry something real? Or is it all just a small variation in the long run of things? Mats Åkerlind [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mats: Simple... the meet is ridiculously late in the year, and 99.9% of U.S. athletes have to be in school/college/university now. Most schools started the term in August or very early September. There was talk originally of whether or not to even send a team to Santiago. I think the IAAF goofed in a big way by putting this meet in this location at this time of year. Besides, I have not even heard of many of these U.S. athletes, and I consider myself very up on the American scene! Glen McMicken
t-and-f: One US winner in Santiago - sort of...
Well into the World Juniors in Santiago, the US showing is so far not very impressive. It's not a normal US showing and even here in Sweden, we can to some part understand the reasons - time of year, location, obligations to colleges etc. Still - it's sad to see that the US doesn't field a competitive team. And that the athletes don't get enough time off to concentrate on the competition. (The 5000 guy who missed the quali would not have done so in a team with more coordination and assiastance. (All teams were as surprised with the late change of schedule. Difference - most of the other teams were already in Santiago, as teams. For us Swedes, it meant that we could change Gustav Svedbrant's schedule from 10K + 5K to heats + final 5K). But - in a way the US have gotten a gold in Santiago. The winner of the 100 m Hurdles, Sweden's Susanna Kallur, was born in the USA. Born Feb. 16, 1981, in Huntington, NY. As was her twin sister Jenny (6th in the Final). American parents? No. All Swedish. The answer to this question is the father of the family. Anders Kallur was a very successful NHL Pro who won 4 Stanley Cup titles with the New York Islanders in 1980 - 1981 - 1982 - 1983. (Yes, the Islanders actually could win games those days...). This explains the birthplace of Susanna and Jenny. I haven't bothered to look into Anders' full NHL statistics, but here in Sweden he's still much more famous than his World Junior Championships twins. By the way - I'd like to see some discussion over the US selection, training and coaching for the World Junior's... Mats Åkerlind
t-and-f: Historical Sprinting
Thanks to Joshua Seeherman for an interesting message concerning Bill Carr in 1932. A few notes. 1) Carr's time is one of the first electric times recorded, and bettered his own time from earlier that summer with 0.45 sec. The bokk on WR progression rightly states his hand time as (46.0 - 46.1 - 46.3). That means that the correct time should have been 46.1. Given that, his hime was equalled in 1936 by Archie Williams (Chicago June 19) and bettered by Rudolf Harbig with 46.0 in 1939 (Frankfurt/Main Aug 12). 2) I have a hard time accepting that the synthetic tracks would have given that big an improvement. Mr A Lennart Julin has proved rather conclusively that the improvement from a top class cinder track to a synthetic is much smaller than here indicated. I also think that using the Mile relay in one meet as main proof is somewhat too small a basis for that conclusion. If the improvement would be that dramatic, why didn't the results explode even faster? Given this, Bob Hayes should have had an almost unbelievably fast time in Tokyo in 1964 (10.06 on cinder at the OG). Carr might have been able to run faster at synthetic tracks, but we can never tell how much by some sort of formula. And - how fast would Tommie Smith have been able to run on synthetic, given his 44.5/44.8y on cinder in San José 1967. (This last point was no proof of my viewpoint, just a thought... Had he beaten Evans in Mexico, had he started etc?) 3) I cannot believe that starting blocks can be worth as much as 0.25 sec. I've raced with both blocks and with dug starting holes (yes, I have, in the 1970's in Finland!). The difference is not that big, even though it exists. 4) Shoe technology. I might accept the 0.3 difference. But the shoues weren't that much lighter in the 1950's either... But to conclude: I agree that Carr is one of the best 400 runners in US history. I will not try to estimate how fast he might have been able to run, and I won't rank him. But thanks for bringing his achievements to attention! Mats Åkerlind
t-and-f: Gail Devers
I normally don't enter discussions concerning allegations, speculations etc. In the case of Gail Devers in Sydney and at the GP Finals, I have most of the time deleted the posts. But I have read some and I have noted one thing. Very few of the list members seem to have seen the broadcast from the GP Finals in Doha. If you saw the meet, you could notice three things: 1) Gail Devers had a heavily strapped hamstring. 2) She had much more problems beating her opponents than in the meets previous to Sydney and it looked as if she was running at "cruise control". 3) She was badly limping after the race and did not take any victory lap. Just a few steps in front of the crowd in the turn. (This is what we could see from the TV broadcast which came first Live from Eurosport and then in a 120 minutes summary by Swedish TV. She might have done more celebrating outside the TV's range.) Where does this put us? Well, I for one do think that she ran in Doha with a slight injury. Why she stopped in Sydney I don't know. I only know what she said Live to Jonas Karlsson on Swedish TV directly after the race - that she had had hamstring problems and that she was very disappointed. One more fact is that you really can get tested also after preliminary rounds. I don't know how common it is but it happens. So just entering means that you are in the lottery. The perhaps most bizarre example of this happened at the 1993 World's in Stuttgart. It happened in a Final, but nevertheless. Some of you might remember that in the Women's 800 Final, three of the eight finalists fell! Liu Li of China got up rather quickly and finished 6th with 2:04.45 (Maria Mutola won with very fast 1:55.43, with Ljubov Gurina as second and Ella Kovacs as third - just so you remember them...) Anyway - two of the finalists were late to get up and then just jogged to the finish. Lilya Nurutdinova of Russia finished 7th with 3:19.18(!) and Tina Paulino of Mozambique 8th with 3:19.89. But - Nurutdinova was, as place 7, selected for a random doping test. She failed, beacuse of steroids! So - never be sure of what can happen! The rest of the speculations, allegations and attacks at each other I will leave to you who choose do so. But I would wish that you would stop all this negative talking. It is not what I joined the list for. In Sweden, Race Walking has it's own Federation, so it's not even a part of Track for us. But it is internationally. I might have thoughts on how to improve that event, but I would never decline to talking s**t about people in favor or against Race Walking, Hammer Throwing, the 400 dash or anything else. Keep it to facts and fact-related discussions! Besides - Robert Korzienowski is impressive, whether he becomes AOY or not. And so is Jan Zelezny, Marion Jones, Jonathan Edwards and numerous others. To conclude - something that I liked to watch. The happiness of Andy Bloom after putting 21.82 (71' 7" or something in imperial) in Doha. That was not the joy of money but of a great result (perhaps helped by the knowldge of money but nonetheless!) Mats Åkerlind 6. Liu Li CHN 2.04,45 7. Tina Paulino MOZ 3.19,89 -. Lilya Nurutdinova RUS diskv anm: Tre av de åtta finalisterna föll. Nurutdinova 7:a (3.19,18), men disv p g a doping (steroider).
t-and-f: Another great athlete...
Ed Grant's post about Erin Donohue brought to mind another great athlete of HS age. She doesn't run XC, but she could if she wanted. These are the season's best results of Swedish Carolina Klüft, born Feb. 2, 1983, and certainly still of in High School, even though the Swedish system is somewhat different. Her 2:14 at 800 isn't that bad, and as you can see, she matches the 38' SP and 140+' in the JT. 100 m: 11.90 200 m: 24.47 400 m: 54.2 (relay) 800 m: 2:14.38 100 m Hurdles (84 cm): 13.88 300 m Hurdles: 41.22 HJ: 1.85 (=6' 3/4") LJ: 6.23 (=20' 5 1/4") SP (4 kg): 11.81 (=38' 9") DT (1 kg): 33.96 (=111' 5") JT (600 g): 45.71 (=149' 11 1/2") Hep: 5.814 points. I don't know about you, but here in Sweden we are rather impressed: Carolina is right now in Chile for the Worls Juniors in Santiago, where she will start in the Heptathlon. Seh will by the way still be eligible in two years! (Her most impressive feat is by the way 5.764 in the Hep, with a fall in the 100H and 17.23 as result there. With a "normal" result it would have been a 6.000+ series!) Mats Åkerlind
t-and-f: Peter Snell's achievements
Hi out there. I'd like to make a few comments concerning the posts about Peter Snell. I will not judge him versus Seb Coe and the rest. I just note that they both were super athletes, and the best thing with this discussion is that we now write about them. Abot Peter Snell. His 800 WR was 1:44.3 (not 1:44.1) as noted. This was clocked in an 880 yard race in Christchurch, NZL, on Feb 3, 1962. (The race started at 14.55 / 2.55PM). The venue was Lancaster Park and it was a grass track. I have not found any numbers on the length of the lap. But - I think that it might have been full size. His 1 Mile record the same year was set at the grass track in Wanganui, which was 385 yards (=352.04 m). I think we might have the confusing factor there. The results: 1. Peter Snell 1:45.1 (880 y = WR. All three watches 1:45.1). 800 m: 1:44.3 =WR (watches at 1:44.2 - 1:44.3 - 1:44.4). 2. James Dupree, USA 1:49.6 3. John Bork, USA 1:53.5 The pace was set by Barry Robinson, who passed 440 y at 50.7. Snell's splits were: 24.8y - 26.2y (51.0y) - 25.9y (1:16.9y) - 28.2y (1:45.1y). Lap times 51.0y - 54.1y. Was he running barefoot? I have a picture which is said to be from that race, and on that picture he wears spikes. So I guess - NO. The old WR's were by the way completely smashed. 800 m: 1:45.7 Roger Moens, BEL 1955 880 y: 1:46.8 Tom Courtney, USA 1957 Peter Snell broke a few other WR's as well. 1000 m: 2:16.6 Auckland, Nov 12 1964. (Prev record 2:16.7 Siegfried Valentin, GDR 1960) 1 Mile: 3:54.4 Wanganui Jan 27, 1962. (Prev record 3:54.5 Herb Elliott, AUS 1958) 3:54.1 Auckland Nov 17, 1964. (Snell broke his own record. Acutally FAT 3:54.04) 660 y (unofficial record): 1:16.9y (Intermediate time in the 800/880 race) (Prev record 1:17.0y Jack Yerman, USA 1959) 1000 y: 2:06.0i Los Angeles Feb 10, 1962 (160 y banked boards). (Prev record 2:07.1 (outdoors) Ernie Cunliffe, USA 1961. Snell's win at the Tokyo OG 1500 indeed was impressive. But the winning time was 3:38.1, (no 3:35...) still impressive. (The 3:35... was the 3:35.6 by Herb Elliott in Rome 1960 - also on cinder (Ryun's 3:33.1 in 1967 was also a cinder track mark!) Snell's winning margin was impressive as well. 1.5 sec to both silver winner Josef Odlozil of Czechoslovakia and bronze winner John Davies of New Zealand. Well, there we have some facts. A good writer also mentions his sources. Most of the results (all concerning the WR races, except the 440 split for pace maker Barry Robinson) come from the superb "Progression of world best performances and official IAAF World Records". Main author Richard Hyman. Published in 1999. Some facts come from the Swedish annual "Friidrott", a series which in text, pictures and statistics covers the Track year and which has been around since 1960. It's also in that book that I have found the picture from the 1962 800/880 race. Mats Åkerlind Gävle, Sweden "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
t-and-f: Change of carreers
A similar case to Perris-Kneebone. In 1992 Germany's Nico Motchebon was very close to the Olympic Team in Modern Pentathlon. He was even on German TV, showing the clothing that the Germans would wear in Barcelona. But then he was left home as reserve. (He was also 5th in the 1991 World Championships and 3rd in Team). In 1993 he took the bronze at 800 m in the World Indoors and then had a long and successful carreer in running. Quite a change! Mats Åkerlind
t-and-f: Sydney - surprises?
What is a surprise? I came to think about that, watching the Olympics from Sydney. As many of you, I had my Bible ready. Athletics 2000 The book where you can find almost all the facts. Suddenly it occured to me that the best judge of surprises might be this all-knowing source of wisdom! (No, Im not mocking the ATFS, Im actually a member, though my scope of research is limited to the Swedish Track history (and even to parts of it )) Anyway. How did Peter Matthews an his crew do? Could I find all the medal winners? In the list of biographies? In the index? Were there any sensations so great that they even went completely unnoticed? So ? I sat down and I checked the medal winners in the individual events (the relays are bound to bring forward some unknowns). In all ? 122 men and women brought home individual medals. 65 men and 57 women. (Blame the difference on +2 events for the men (Steeple + 1 extra Walk), and on Marion ) (Actually ? multiple medal winners were Ato Boldon (100+200), Robert Korzienowski (20W + 50W ? 2 gold medals!), Marion Jones (100 + 200 + LJ ? 2 golds and 1 bronze!), Gabriela Szabo (1500 + 5000), Gete Wami (5000 + 1). Then. How many of these had biographies in Athletics 2000? Actually the vast majority. 54 of the 65 men and 50 of the 57 women. Peter Matthews ? that was impressive! (Some of the people with biographies actually surprised me. I had not thought of Niccola Vizzoni as a leading HT contender. But the book had his biography ). There are other examples as well. Then ? who surprised? First ? the return of the old stars. People who have had bios in previous editions, but have been away for a while from the real top level. They included three athletes. One man and two women. The man was Kenyas Marathon runner Eric Wainaina. The bronze medal winner from Atlanta once more got the selection and delivered. Bronze in 1996 and now silver. In between ? not that much. But great running. The women ? Pauline Davis-Thompson of the Bahamas. Silver in the 200, gold in the 400Relay, and a superb gold in press conference showing! (Stealing the show from Marion - impressive!) Its never too late to improve. The other ? strong and consistent Spanish walker Maria Vasco. At age 25, returned to where she left off. New names ? never mentioned in the bios, but in the index of the book. 10 men and 3 women. The men included three gold winners. Konstantinos Kenteris of Greece in the 200. An ex-400 runner who went down to 200 and struck gold. Arega Aberaha of Ethiopia in the Marathon. A youngster who can reach the stars. And the same goes for Reuben Kosgei of Kenya in this peculiar, slow 3000St race. The other men in this section were: Tesafye Tola (silver Marathon). Hadi Souaan Al-Somaily (silver 400H), Adam Nelson (silver SP), Noe Hernandez (silver 20K Walk), Tesfaye Tola (bronze Marathon), Abderrahmane Hammad (bronze HJ), Roman Shchurenko (bronze LJ), Joel Sanchez (bronze 50 K Walk). Among the three women, we find one gold medallist: Nouria Mérah-Benida won that exciting 1500. At almost age 30, she finally brought it home all the way! Impressive and worth thinking about, the next time you see a 27 year old as past the top! The two others: Yelena Prokhorova took the Hep. Silver. But we who saw her at the U23 Eur Ch in Gothenburg in 1999 are not surprised The third - Tanya Lawrence, bronze in the 100. And now to the real surprises. The ones that couldnt even be found int the index or even in the top 200 lists of 1999. A short list. Two women. In the womens 20K Walk, Chinas Wang Liping taking gold after all the dramatics. (Jane Saville of Australia must get an extra gold as the best loser. Dqd entering the Stadium, she never blamed anyone for her missed gold medal! Just noted that she, as some other girls, had been walking over the accepted limit. Perhaps even bigger than Cathy Freeman, its easier to win than to lose!) Anyway - Wang Liping could not be found in Athletics 2000. But we find her in the 1999 edition. So the 24 year old was basically just back on track again. The last name is perhaps more interesting. Oana Musunoiu-Pantelimon of Romania got a shared bronze in the HJ with 1.99. That was PB with 5 cm (2 inches). A new star? No, a 28 year old jumper. The PB 1.94 was from this year. But before that, she was last seen in the index in Athletics 1998 (covering the 1997 season) Then she jumped 1.92, and had a PB of 1.93 from 1992. So there you find a surprise But to conclude ? I could actually find all the medal winners in either this edition of Athletics, or in previous editions. So ? there were no extreme sensations in these Olympics. No Edwin Moses, if you get my point But ? it was a great competition to watch. No WRs, because of the time of year and the weather. But ? great fights. So ? now for Santiago, and then to 2001. Mats Åkerlind [EMAIL PROTECTED]
t-and-f: Munich decathlon
As already stated, Jeff Bannister was the third man on the US decathlon team in Munich in 1972. Place 21 with 7.022 doesn't seem that impressive, but he had a "zero" in the 110 m Hurdles. Too bad for a guy who was No. 3 in the 1972 World Best with 8.120. As it was, the Russian Leonid Litvinyenko took the OG silver with 8.035 behind Avilov's WR 8.454. Mats Åkerlind "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
t-and-f: Yokohama...
Some great results in Yokohama. Seems that the Olympics are coming soon... But - the greatest result, or wasn't it? Tatiana Lebedeva going 15.32 in the women's TJ! That means something like 50'3" (plus fractions) and makes her World No. 2 AT behind Inessa Kravets from the WCh 1995 in Gothenburg. (And for you imperial people - makes her the second woman to jump 50 feet in the TJ!) And - the rest of the meet isn't that bad either. From Garcia, to Jayasinghe to Yelesina, to Obadele Thompson, to Edwards to (sorry to Pedroso and all the others omitted). Mats Åkerlind
t-and-f: SWE-FIN Meet
Just to keep the list somewhat international Peter Larsson has mailed the results from the Sweden-Finland annual meet to the list. I'd like to add a few remarks to those of you that didn't notice or, as with me, erased too soon. 1. This meet is, as far as I know, the last dual country meet that draws any attention or press. It's a 3-per-country meet, women and men. All Olympic events in two days, except marathon and the walks (the latter are scored outside the meet, as a sort of exhibition event.) This year, we had a crowd of +40.000 on Saturday and +32.000 on Sunday i Helsinki. The crowds were equally good last year in Gothenburg. 2. Besides, it's a U19-meet with 2-per-country. This is held just prior to the meet, with the relays as features in the main meet. (Earlier in the year, we've had U21 and (every 2nd year) U23-meets.) 3. Despite that the results would not all all points win Olympic medals, the crowd support is immense. And - it's friendly! As a Swede, I've been sitting in Helsinki among a mostly finnish crowd, cheering, supporting - and at all times being friendly. (Every time a Swede would win, my Finnish neighbor would turn around and say - Good going, what about a drink?) All this (not just the drinks) turns this meet into something very special. 4. This meet seems to bring the athletes to new levels of performance. Let me give some examples and translations... Mens 110H. Swedish record 13.44 by Robert Kronberg. And a Junior Record by 18 year old Philip Nossmy. 13.63 (on the 42") is very, very good by a 18 year old, even by US standards. (Some of you might want to deny that, but then explain the 100+ College coaches who try to recruit the guy...) 2.34 in the HJ by Stefan Holm. That means 7' 8 1/6" for you imperial guys. Thats's high! especially for a guy who stands 5' 10"... Aki Parviainen.. Say no more.. The guy faces no challenge whatsoever an throws +85 meters. Opponents in Sydney, beware... Susanna Kallur, SWE. 13.07 in zero wind by a 19 year old means world no. 1 in the event for an junior. And - I haven't mentioned Arsi Harju, or Olli-Pekka Karjalainen or... (Sydney - look out!) It was a good meet. Sweden won the Men's meet and the boy's U19. Finland won the women's meet and the girl's U'19. Next year we'll be on eah others' throats again. (With lots of love and respect!) Mats Åkerlind "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
t-and-f: Impressive, or...?
A while ago, I mailed the list and asked why so few people seemed to care about the great marks that were posted. Voronin in the HJ and Alekna in the DT. The answer, it turned out, was that most people on the list couldn't relate to the metric postings. Thanks to the past days posts, you should now. Quite a handful of helpful hints. Believe me, I have the same problem "the other way around", even though I've gone to school in the US. But - I am still amazed tha nobody's reacted to a brilliant mark in Gateshead. 3:30.82 by Ali Saidi-Sief. In rainy weather, winning by 5+ seconds... And this by a guy whose event in Sydney should be the 5K. He was impressive. I never noted the splits, but I think it was like 1:51.9 at 800, and by then he was alone (the pace maker stayed up to 1000) with a large gap to the rest of the field. More notes - rainy weather weakened a lot of the marks. But Cathy Freeman was impressive in the 200. Maurice was weak in the 100, but had earlier had a good anchor 4 x 1 leg (no I didn't get all the members, but it was mostly HSI). Blame it on the cold, I suppose... Capel needs to start to prepare for the Games... This was not the same guy as in Sacramento. Dominique Arnold must be frustrated right now - not going to Sydney. Edwards had mostly miserable jumps, and then one good jump... Kipketer's going to be good in Sydney, considering how much injury problems he's had. But Bucher's an extremely tough fighter, and so is Said-Guerny, so it's going to be interesting to say the least. BTW - we have new WR marks in the women's JT by Trine Hattestad. But I know, that's not what the discussion was about... Mats Åkerlind [EMAIL PROTECTED]
t-and-f: Results in imperial (was TV Coverage)
Thanks for the replies to my post concerning TV coverage etc. I will respond privately to some of you. A few of you have mentioned that still few of the list members directly understand metric results. I understand you. Even though I studied and competed in the US many years ago, I have to use quite a lot of my (limited) brain capacity to convert, every time I read imperial results. So - let's put it this way... Hey, Alekna threw 242' 4 1/2"... Voronin cleared 7'10 1/2" (almost - it should be soemthing like 7' 10 3/8". Impressive isn't it? (Furthermore - Alekna has been awesome the whole year and won every meet that I've seen results from, beating guys like Riedel and Schult all the time. (I might have missed some results - so he might have had some losses...) To get it interesting for you US people out there. Peter Larsson sent you the results from the Malmö meet. Noticed the 10.92 by Torri Edwards? Wind aided, but still very good. The men had a brisk +4.2 in their backs when Boldon had 10.03 and Laynes 10.10 (the stadium display first said 9.89 for Boldon, so you can imagine the mix of disbelief and possible happiness on behalf of the runners). Other things to notice. Only a third for Dragila, with a (for her) weak 4.26 (this time you do the calculations... Not? Oh, you are so spoiled... OK - 14' almost (14' equals 426,72 cm). But it was chilly and a nasty wind. Sideways to headwind. But it might be wise, not to bank the gold medal just yet. (Though she still is my No 1 pick). Another US athlete who impressed. Adam Nelson with his 21.53 (70' 7 3/4"). He'll be around in Sydney... Mats Åkerlind "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
[Fwd: t-and-f: Selected results from Germany]
Hi again. Mats Åkerlind here. Did you notice the result for Hartwig in the exhibition meet? 6.00 means 19' 8 1/4"... And the guy's not going to Sydney... Mats Norderney, 1 Aug PV: Hartwig USA 5.90, Hysong USA 5.85, Lobinger 5.80, Boergeling 5.75, Otto 5.65 Cologne, 4 Aug Market Square PV (exh): Hartwig USA 6.00, Brits RSA 5.81, Ecker 5.76, Lobinger 5.76 Viersen, 6 Aug HJ: Rhoden 2.25 Neustadt, 6 Aug w800m: Gsell 2:00.97 w1500m: Friedrich 4:05.97, Walter 4:10.80 Winfried Kramer Kohlrodweg 12 66539 Neunkirchen GERMANY Editor of NATIONAL ATHLETICS RECORDS Association of Track Field Statisticans
t-and-f: TV Coverage etc.
As a subscriber to this list, I sometimes get bored by the discussion over TV coverage. Living in Sweden, I still can get the message: For track fans - US TV coverage is not good. (the word "sucks" might be appropriate, but I'd rather not use it.) I know the problem - I have lived in the US and I still remember the frustration I felt, still as a Swede, not to be able to follow the 1976 Canada Cup in Hockey. My networks - in the Boston area, mind you - didn't cover the event (That can bring a Swede out of his (sometimes existing) mind. Anyways. I'd like to give you an example of what I get to see. I have Eurosport. They cover most of the international meets and - as has been explained - have to rely on the national broadcaster. Taht means a mix of good coverage and bad. Some times we get good pictures and somteimes bad (=only the running events, with lots of replays). The commentary is nowadays in your native language. That is good for me in Sweden, since our people are well informed. (Stefan Olsson is actually a very good commentator)). However, I had to endure a few meets this summer while in Germany, and I was not amused by the commentary. That happened to be big parts of the US Champs and the Africa Cup and I hope that the Germans normally get better covaerage. (To German list members - I'm a fluent German speaker). The Golden League meets are a different matter. Eurosport doesn't have the rights. In Sweden however, we are fortunate to have Channel 4 broadcasting. That means that A Lennart Julin is commenting and that means perfect information. I can get mad at the selection of pictures, but the info that ALJ brings is just amazing. On the domestic level, our meets normally get 3-5 minutes in the national sports review. The exception is "DN Galan" (=120 minutes) and tonight's meet in Malmö. That meet got 40 minutes and I now know why some of you are irritated at the time wasted. Because this meet was an opposite. I don't know what you get, but we got 38 minutes "live track" and two minutes of interviews. 45 seconds with Kajsa Bergqvist (she was quite happy with 1.94 and felt that Hestrie Cloete (won at 1.97) will be a real contender in Sydney. (As info - the meet was held in rather cold weather and very windy conditions. That in regard to some results). Then 1:15 with Erica Johansson commenting on her form, the rainy Swedish summer (meaning that she has done parts of her trainig indoors, even in July!) etc.) Now to some advice - are you still reading this? I joined this list since I was interested in getting both information and views on things. I'm getting disappointed, since a lot of the mails are very aggressive and don't bring the discussion further. Dwight has left. I was sometimes not agreeeing with him, but I will miss his comments. Please, keep the discussion at a level where we all can take part and where no-one gets undue response. We're not her to win, we're here to contribute. To end it. Where is all the response to the big results? Alekna threw 73.88!!! (give or take a few cm...) Voronin cleared 2.40!!! I'd expect some reaction to this! Mats Åkerlind Gävle, Sweden "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
