t-and-f: Oslo: Smiling Sammy?
Watched the broadcast on the deuce last night and was happy with the coverage and the broadcasters, but I have one bone to pick with Larry Rawson regarding 5000m winner Sammy Kipketer. He wasn't smiling. It may look like it, but no offense to the guy, he just has big teeth that stick out when he exerts. Not a smile. I won't get into whether or not I believe he's actually 18... Suzy was amazing. I almost spit out my Hacker-Pschorr when watching her pull away. She and coach looked almost stunned and in disbelief about the result. When is the last time an American absolutely devastated a field like that in an event over 800m?Grote adiRP
Re: t-and-f: Deirdre Coleman Imus
Imus SUX...who listens to him. Everybody able should listen to Howard Stern. He runs. Actually had a discussion with Robin about how far and fast (not very) Gore and Bush run each day. A while ago Howard was stressing on air about not being able to find his running shoe (Asics Kayano in a 13)...I had them in stock, and was dying to hook the guy up, but couldn't get through on the phone. That was my chance to talk to Bababooey and save Howard. I try to avoid turning the radio dial to WFAN Sports when Imus is on air. Grote adiRP - Original Message - From: Joseph McVeigh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: T&F List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2000 2:29 PM Subject: Re: t-and-f: Deirdre Coleman Imus > Chas. L. Shaffer wrote: > > > U.S. radio personality Don Imus frequently mentions that his wife had a > > track scholarship at Villanova > > > > [...] > > > > Her name is Deirdre Coleman (although you'll sometimes see it spelled > > Deidre). I believe that she is now about 35 or 36 years old. According to > > Don, she was a middle distance runner. > > > > A March 4, 1999 Web posting on "DeLorenzo's Dugout" by James DeLorenzo > > states that she never ran for Villanova. > > > > Imus could be just lying -- or misled. A lot of people are > told "I was third in the mile in the intramural meet back at > East Jockstrap University" yet seem to hear "I was a track > star in college," which any proud husband will repeat and > exaggerate. > > And if you wnet by resumes that you read at work, the T&F > team at every secondary school, college, university, and > probably even prison, must have had several dozen team > captains per year. > > If I had a dollar every time I've heard someone lie > ridiculously about the athletic ability of themselves or > their friend, I wouldn't have to work for a living. > > -- > Joseph Aloysius McVeigh > Morgan Stanley Dean Witter & Co. > 212-761-6115 > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > >
t-and-f: Asking About Winter X-C Nats Again...
Know that this question has been asked, but haven't seen an answer yet, so here it goes:Where are the February X-C Nationals and Trials for 2001? You know the one where they have like 16 different races. Won't ask the question again of why the hell we have two different national meets in this country when its tough enough getting one good race together... I know Fall X-C Club Team Nats are in Boston. But why right after Thanksgiving? Bad travel weekend, flying or driving. Grote adiRP
t-and-f: Hood To Coast!!!!! Brussells, Schmussells...
Will there be any sort of website with good updates and quick results from Hood To Coast? Who cares if MJ's is OK and runs 43something. He couldn't hack THE relay of all relays. What I really want to know is how McVeigh and his evil shin hold up on that first leg, as well as the rest of "our" hodgepodge squad from Jersey. Will Bucknell threepeat? Who will stop them? Last year's runners-up Princeton Running Company? Or the Nike/Pace Setter/Oregon team? Or better yet, the crew identified mysteriously as Jersey Eccentric Running Karass. For those interested, the team was to consist of all Jersey guys with one Ohioan who has close ties to Jersey, and maybe others who live close, but once lived in the Garden State. However, after several turns for the worst, we lost the Ohio guy, lost myself, and others and the roster looks like this: 1. Joseph Aloysius McVeigh- In addition to sacrificial runner, McVeigh is team leader, braintrust, organizer, planner, benefactor, and check writer...coming off a tough run at the trials in Pitt, wants to win H2C prior to retiring. Peacemaker at the other side of my family's table at my wedding. 2. Peter Gilmore- NON-JERSEY, but thats OK...former Cal guy, which is better than being a former Stanford guy, just kidding...see legs 8 and 9. 3. Sam Alexander- My right hand man at Runners Pace, manned the operation last week whilst I honeymooned in Oregon. Filmed and bartended at my wedding. 4. CHRIS KATON- Greatest Hood To Coast runner EVER. Period. Jersey connection is with me and Spoonire. 5. JR Meloro- True Jersey guy, Bergen Catholic alum like McVeigh. adiRR turned adiRP, former Farm Teamer begat us a few fill-in legs. Was at my wedding. 6. Tom Sabol- LaSalle alum, Philly is almost Jersey, good for team spirit. 7. Rob Reeder- Jersey HS alum. Stanford, Farm Team, connection with our leg 11 from HS and from Vegas Marathon and Oly Trials Marathon. 8. Matt Martin- South Jersey HS alum, was on team that dethroned my alma mater, Bernards High way back when. 49:39 10 miles. 9. Don Conrad- Dartmouth connection with our leg 11. Sub 29 this year as post-grad at...Stanford. 10. Rob DeFilippis- A J.E.R.K. through and through...although he and his wife got caught in traffic and missed my wedding. 11. Chris Langan- Lives in Philly now, but does his doctor thing at Camden hospital. Oly Trials in the marathon, 26th. True Jersey guy, at my wedding. 12. Brian Harris- From the famed North Hunterdon HS program, Hudson, Martin, Lauck, Bilotta, and so on. Occassional training partner of Lauck in her Olympic run. Went to UVa and Kutztown. Also recently married, but not to me. Why post all of this. I dunno? Thought it would be interesting, but that was when I started typing in the AM. Got sidetracked and now its 7:15 and I have to go home. Sort of wish I was still out there running the race. But anyway, go Jersey Eccentric Running Karass. And whats that website if there is one?Grote adiRP
t-and-f: Grote Poll Eligibility Query
Matt Lane...x-c or no x-c? Last year's X-C Xpress from The Walt had him as a senior, that is what I thought, but Molvar listed him as returning. Clearly this makes a difference in the individual picture, and team as well, as W&M has either 6 of 7 or 7 of 7 back, and with Lane would effectively only have to score 4 guys. That always helps. Grote Poll Hint: Southern Miss will not be in the poll, nor will they go to NCAA's, again. Grote adiRP
t-and-f: Regina and Marathoners
I dunno, 2:19? From what I've seen/heard it seems like Jacobs runs 14:45 on a more speed/anaerobic focused training regimen, no? Don't hear much about her running 20 mile long runs and stuff. She doesn't need to, I suppose. If I had to pick a US woman who realistically looks to have marathon written all over her, I'd say that there are 2 who standout:Drossin Rhines. Regina has no reason to run a marathon. Despite the fact that hundreds of thousands of people run them, and the major ones are filling up with fanatics each year, the marathon really is not a whole lot of fun. In fact, I'd venture to say that the marathon sucks. Drossin, however, seems to come from a higher mileage (and altitude) based aerobic focused program. And her build is more marathon fit. Rhines is so efficient, has that marathon shuffle thing, little bounce or knee lift, and still has surprising spunk at the end of a 1m, just ask Hickman and Lauck. However, if it came down to it, my money would still be on McVeigh to beat their collective asses over a marathon. Grote adiRP
Re: t-and-f: Regina and Marathoners--Compare to Joanie...
Not to knock Jen Rhines here at all, but 2:26 to 2:28 puts her at the top of the heap of American women marathoners, more or less. Now, consider 2:26 to 2:28 puts her just about a FULL MILE BEHIND Joan Benoit's best marathons. Wow. How come she had all of the secrets figured out way back when in the dark ages of the early 80's, when there was only 1 ESPN channel, no VH1, and Roger Clemens was just a young Red Sox hurler? Grote adiRP - Original Message - From: mike fanelli To: Ryan Grote ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, July 28, 2000 2:04 AM Subject: Re: t-and-f: Regina and Marathoners Rhines with 10 weeks of specific work is a 2:26-2:28 prformer...perfectly suited for the event with mechanics and anaerobic threshold capacity...IMHO MF - Original Message - From: Ryan Grote To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2000 11:48 AM Subject: t-and-f: Regina and Marathoners I dunno, 2:19? From what I've seen/heard it seems like Jacobs runs 14:45 on a more speed/anaerobic focused training regimen, no? Don't hear much about her running 20 mile long runs and stuff. She doesn't need to, I suppose. If I had to pick a US woman who realistically looks to have marathon written all over her, I'd say that there are 2 who standout:Drossin Rhines. Regina has no reason to run a marathon. Despite the fact that hundreds of thousands of people run them, and the major ones are filling up with fanatics each year, the marathon really is not a whole lot of fun. In fact, I'd venture to say that the marathon sucks. Drossin, however, seems to come from a higher mileage (and altitude) based aerobic focused program. And her build is more marathon fit. Rhines is so efficient, has that marathon shuffle thing, little bounce or knee lift, and still has surprising spunk at the end of a 1m, just ask Hickman and Lauck. However, if it came down to it, my money would still be on McVeigh to beat their collective asses over a marathon. Grote adiRP
Re: t-and-f: NCAA XC Recruits Update
Wow, I go away on a vacation for a week and its already x-c season, must mean I have to start going on the Grote Poll 2000. Anyway, for the record... Rollie Geiger didn't recruit me since I transferred there from U. of Washington. Once I contacted him and visited he was most welcoming, however, and was made a very fair and convincing argument for me to stay, even if I did go back out to Portland. Since then he has been most forgiving and friendly. But he's a great recruiter indeed, look at the athletes NC State gets compared to the sometimes higher profile neighbors UNC and Duke. It must be the adidas... Also, don't neglect to mention these two other Jersey recruits: Meet of Champs winner JOSH KAUKE (1:50.19) is going to PRINCETON. Think last year was his first season of x-c. He might not be the greatest 8k/10k guy right away, but could be serviceable. Colin Brown of Columbia HS (Clark family fame) is also headed to Princeton. Philly sleeper LaSalle landed indoor Meet of Champs 1600m winner MIGUEL JONES of Hillsborough. Huge talent and range from 400m to 3200m and was the county x-c champ. Grote adiRP - Original Message - From: John Molvar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Send t-and-f <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2000 4:10 PM Subject: t-and-f: NCAA XC Recruits Update > NCAA XC Recruits Update > > It is never too soon to start talking about XC. > The Olympics are in October, but XC will start on > schedule anyway. I took a look at the Men's NCAA > Division I results from last year and looked at > who is coming back and who got the best recruits > and I will summarize my findings. Note that I > got the recruiting information from the excellent > Dystat Site. It has a list of all college > recruits in all events and is an excellent > resource. I will address the teams in the order > of finish at last year's championship. Overall, > the most striking fact it that at least 5 of last > year's top 7 teams will be stronger this year > which will make the season quite exciting. > > Arkansas won big last year but returns only 3 of > their top 7 and only secured one top tier > American recruit in Fernando Cabada. (see below > for a list of the top recruits and where they are > going). However, Arkansas always recruits > foreigners and several of their 8 through 15 > runners are returning and likely to step up. > They will be one of the favorites but not the > favorite. Wisconsin returns only 2 of their top > 7 but snared 3 of the best high school distance > prospects in the country with Josh "14 mile per > week" Spiker, Matt Tegenkamp and Tim Keller. > All 3 ran sub 9 last Spring. Despite being hurt > by graduation more than any top team, they could > retain a top 5 finish. NC State is another team > that only returns 2 or their top 7. Coach > Rollie Geiger has a reputation of being the top > recruiter in the country. He has consistently > gotten some of the best runners. He even > recruited the legendary Ryan Grote and once > convinced a top miler to transfer from an Ivy > league school transfer to NC state. This year is > one of his best recruiting years ever, bringing > in 5 top distance men. Expect NC State to be a > top 5 contender for years to come. > > Stanford had the misfortune of injuries and an > off day for many of their runners last year. > This year the opposition is going to face an > avalanche of quality runners. For starters, they > return 6 of their top 7. Secondly, 3 of those 6 > had very bad races last year. Thirdly they had a > great recruiting year, bringing in 4 top runners > including the 2 highest placing seniors at last > year's Footlocker Final (Don Sage and Ian > Dobson). Fourthly, they have 4 runners returning > from last year who did not run at the nationals, > but turned in tremendous times on the track > (Powell-3:40, Luchini-28:54 and Hill 14:15. > Lastly, they return 2 proven runners > (Robinson-14:05 and Hawkins-29:30) from 2 year > Mormon sabbaticals. All together, that is 16 > very talented runners fighting for 7 spots. > Stanford could lose 8 of these guys to injury and > still come into the NCAAs as favorite. They will > be very tough to beat. > > Michigan looks to be very strong. They return 5 > of the top 7, but recruited 4 excellent middle > distance runners including Brian Turner and Mason > Ward who have also run well as harriers. This > does not include the 1 or 2 top flight Canadian > runners that they typically recruit. Michigan > could remain in the top 5. When Martin Smith > took over at Oregon his goal was to build a team > capable of competing for the title. He is making > good progress. He was 6th in his first year, > returns
Re: t-and-f: Crystal Springs
Crystal Spring holds the West Coast Conference Chamionship each year, which is of course the conference meet of all college conference meets. In fact, if you'll remember they had held the PAC-10 Championships at Stanford Golf Course for quite a few years in a row until recently, just a few miles south of Crystal Springs. Frustrated with the inability to escape the looming shadow of the WCC, the PAC-10 hierarchy and Vin Lanana decided it would be best to not fight the power and presence at Crystal Springs. I had two experiences at Crystal Springs, 15 point 1-7 sweeps by the Pilots. Tough course, fun stuff. Grote adiRP - Original Message - From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2000 4:59 PM Subject: t-and-f: Crystal Springs > I am a little biased but for my money the best XC course I know is Crystal Springs Cross CountryCourse which is located in Belmont, California on Hallmark Drive. It hosts over 20 meets a year. From high school duel meets to college championships. Thecourse has remained unchanged for over 20 years, allowing it's records to be valid to date. The course is maintained by long time > College of San Mateo Coach Bob Rush. Matt Giusto > holds one of the fastest times on the high school > course. I am sure many a runner can recall a > doozy of story regarding the course. > > If anybody has run on this course, you might want > to chime in on what you remember most about Crystal > Springs. > > A.C. >
Re: t-and-f: Division I Men's Cross Country
Yeah, just checked it out, and only the regional polls are up. Even when the national one is out, its all just so blah...dry...numbers and names only. Where is the wit, the sarcasm, the uncalled-for shots at people I don't even know? What this website does is screams for THE GROTE POLL! Well, I'll work on it. Busy times of late, but things are settling down and my preliminary calculations are all done. As I get older and further removed from the collegiate scene (remember closest schools to me are Rutgers and The Hall) there will be a bit less insider knowledge and a bit more inaccuracy. So, what I'll try to do is make up for that with...irrelevance. Grote adiRP - Original Message - From: Gordon Thomson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2000 2:47 PM Subject: t-and-f: Division I Men's Cross Country > The United States Cross Country Coaches Association has started a new website. This is the site to get the national poll and regional polls for NCAA Division I Men's Cross Country. Pre-season polls are released today! > > The site is http://www.usccca.org/ > > Gordon Thomson > DePaul University > Head XC/Track Coach > (773) 325-1452 > www.DepaulBlueDemons.com > >
t-and-f: USATF Drug Cover-Ups...ASK D. ROBINSON
I'm stunned by the recent bombshell about potential USATF drug coverups. Gee, go figure. 8 in in 88? I wonder if anybody who won a medal was involved. I thought that only those dirty Canadian sprinters or Chinese women, or recently Dutch swimmers were juiced? Ask Darrell Robinson, HS 400m record holder about drug coverups and what happens when one tries to uncover them... Let everybody take what they want to take. Let national governing bodies help supply the best stuff and best chemists if the nation deems it worthwhile. Its a total joke. Testing is a waste of time and an insult to anybody's intelligence. Anybody catch womens swimming the other night when Andrea Joyce hounded gold medal winning, world record holding, Inge DeBruuin (sp?) of the Netherlands? Ridiculous. First they show US swimmer Van Dyken pouting about losing to her, then denying what she said about her being on drugs, then Joyce doubts the Dutch winner and grills her about performance. Think that if Van Dyken had set 9 world records, won the golds, etc., and been accused of anything that Bob Costas or Andrea Joyce would've even questioned her or mentioned allegations? Hell no, she's American, everybody knows we Americans would never cheat or whatever. Grote adiRP
t-and-f: Searching for HS X-C, Great American Festival Results
I saw that Mt. View, UT won or something, as did Webb, anybody have a website with full results. Figuring I'll start following the HS ranks more until they are all ganked just like those darned Canadian sprinters and Dutch swimmers. Grote adiRP
Re: t-and-f: 5 positive names from 1988
It is encouraging to discover that NOBODY in the US has been doing anything dirty since 1988, though, right? - Original Message - From: R.T. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, September 25, 2000 10:00 PM Subject: Re: t-and-f: 5 positive names from 1988 > >The word that I get is that three of the five who tested positive at the > >1988 US Olympic track and field Trials accounted for five of the gold > >medals at the Seoul Olympics. > > > >Tony Craddock > > Is there a reason why people have to keep going back > to 1988 (TWELVE years ago!) to dig up enough dirt > for trash talking? > > TAC has pretty much swept aside almost all the relevent > 'names' in authority since then and became USATF. > > RT >
t-and-f: Cochrane Defense for CJ...
So here is Johnny's gameplan, he is going back to the proverbial well on this one, as it has worked before. Johnny will bring the big man (CJ) before the IOC/IAAF/USATF, whomever. He will break out a black leather glove, launch into an irrelevant tirade, have CJ try to get the glove on his monstrous hand, and when he can't proclaim, "If it doesn't fit, you must aquit!" Thereafter, the committee of wonders will proclaim that the tests were really unreliable, that 1000 times a normal ratio may not really be all that irregular, and CJ will sue. As for toothpaste and toothbrushes, I can't imagine what kind of those things Marion uses, has to be something specially designed to work around the bulging/growing/protruding jaw and squirrelly tooth. Grote adiRP
Re: t-and-f: MEB and ABDI IN SYDNEY
I agree, I've been harping on this for years, since I was in college in fact. The marathon (if done right) need not end one's track career. There are many examples of guys running marathons and then running better on the track. Main example, once again, is Alberto Salazar. Fresh out of Oregon, Salazar went on a binge of winning, thats right, winning New York and Boston, sub 2:10 and everything. After running marathons, Salazar also managed to run 27:26 and 13:11. I agree that it wouldn't be horrible for our fastest guys (Meb, Abdi, Hausers, and so on) to jump into a big marathon each fall after a good track season. Not necessarily a time trial course, but a big race, how about New York? Grote adiRP - Original Message - From: mike fanelli <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2000 12:13 PM Subject: Re: t-and-f: MEB and ABDI IN SYDNEY > OK, let's assume that they've got an additional 30 seconds improvement over > 10K...where does that put them in the world?? > My only real point was that TYPICALLY in this day and age, US distance > runners wait way too long to focus on the marathon. When US ran well and had > depth at the distance (1980) guys had moved to the event much > earlier...Shorter at 23 years old!!! Our marathon depth or lack thereof is a > borderline embarassing scene. It's like "OK, now I'm really slowing down in > my career...do I take up handball or the marathon??" > > > Mike > > > - Original Message - > From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2000 8:37 AM > Subject: Re: t-and-f: MEB and ABDI IN SYDNEY > > > > No. It's not guys like Meb and Abdi we need moving up to the marathon. We > > need to coddle, teach, train and coach them towards their potential at 5K > and > > 10K. And along the way we need to remunerate them for their success on the > > track, just like the marathoners. This way 12:59 and 26:59 won't seem like > > such a mystery to them. The answer is not pushing everyone towards the > > marathon. Have we not learned from our mistakes? > > > > Larry > > New England Track > > > >
Re: t-and-f: Cochrane Defense for CJ...
Thats right, INNOCENT, of course, you are assuming that I am making accusations, maybe just observations. Its never OK to question an American, is it? How about Inge DeBruuin and her innocence? No outrage there, and that was on TV. All I know is that I am recently married, my wife and I have the same kind of toothbrush, different colors, but we do use the same kind of toothpaste...and come to think of it use the same Iron supplement...oh no, bust the Grote's! Grote adiRP - Original Message - From: Phil Murray To: T&F List Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2000 1:49 PM Subject: RE: t-and-f: Cochrane Defense for CJ... I must have missed it -- what was the point of this message? Surely it wasn't humor. "As for toothpaste and toothbrushes, I can't imagine what kind of those things Marion uses, has to be something specially designed to work around the bulging/growing/protruding jaw and squirrelly tooth." Does this public insulting of an innocent person bother anyone else bother anyone else? I've seen some tasteless, immature posts before, but this may be the worst. What is the reason for such a vicious, humiliating attack? Phil Murray -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Ryan GroteSent: Tuesday, September 26, 2000 10:39 AMTo: T&F ListSubject: t-and-f: Cochrane Defense for CJ... So here is Johnny's gameplan, he is going back to the proverbial well on this one, as it has worked before. Johnny will bring the big man (CJ) before the IOC/IAAF/USATF, whomever. He will break out a black leather glove, launch into an irrelevant tirade, have CJ try to get the glove on his monstrous hand, and when he can't proclaim, "If it doesn't fit, you must aquit!" Thereafter, the committee of wonders will proclaim that the tests were really unreliable, that 1000 times a normal ratio may not really be all that irregular, and CJ will sue. As for toothpaste and toothbrushes, I can't imagine what kind of those things Marion uses, has to be something specially designed to work around the bulging/growing/protruding jaw and squirrelly tooth. Grote adiRP
t-and-f: Cross Talk...No More Grote Poll.
OK, I'm just getting too old for this shizit...on many levels. Let me explain: -I'm way removed from the insider scoop of things, and in this neck of the woods, the Jersey collegiate scene isn't exactly where its at, even if Princeton is an NCAA qualifier each of the last few years. -I haven't run a x-c race in 4 years, that might change soon, but stilll... -I'm married, running a business, buying a house, and directing a race... -My yearly biased pick team, Colorado, is now being led by a KID who I sold shoes and spikes to when he was in HS, now he's in his 3rd year as one of the Buffs leading the charge to the podium... For these reasons, I am clearly old and out of it, and more than ever have not a clue what the hell I am talking. Truly this is a sad day. Oh, how the mighty have fallen. However, the miracles of modern technology serve you all with plenty of much BETTER options than the Grote Poll could ever be again. As always, try http://www.tnfmedia.com and see their 2000 NCAA X-C board. There is a new player, out of Wake Forest apparantly. Despite my spats in the past with some Wake folks, and despite the fact that this "poll" uses as it claims a mathematical algorithm (totally against the spirit and foundation of the Grote Poll obviously) I'll endorse the "poll" here now: http://www.wfu.edu/~demecj02 So once again, the Grote Poll is no more. I'll just follow along quietly from now on. Still, while I'm at it, a few quick questions and observations: -Norhteast and Mid-Atlantic X-C is rising up again, Providence is very good, as is Georgetown and Iona -Is Sanchez eligible for G'town? -William and Mary: Great, underrated program, at nationals every year now and seemingly stronger this year after losing Lane? -Why no mention of Portland drubbing ranked Southern Utah? -Where is Kimani? Eligible? -What did they do to the Sundodger course in Lincoln Park, Seattle? Times were seemingly ridiculously fast, or the guys now are just faster than sad sacks such as myself. -When will NCAA's be held near someplace where people actually live? -Finally, if they want to get shizit done down at U. of Texas and beat the likes of Rice, UTSA, and A&M, they need to get somebody from Jersey in charge...I mean, hell, for now, Chris Simms is on campus, give him a shot. Farewell... Grote adiRP
Re: t-and-f: LYNN NELSON in ULTRAMARATHON
Nothing for 31 miles could be deemed good. Grote adiRP - Original Message - From: Joe Rubio <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: mike fanelli <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2000 3:52 PM Subject: Re: t-and-f: LYNN NELSON in ULTRAMARATHON > 7:45 pace for 31 miles is good? > > mike fanelli wrote: > > > > Lynn Nelson, 1988 Olympic Trials 10,00 meter champ (and Seoul Olympic > > finalist), an Oregon (via MN, AZ and CA) resident debuted at the 50 > > kilometer ultramarathon distance recently. The race director referred to her > > performance as "Trasonesque" (referring to Ann, the Bob Beamon of ultras??). > > > > Enjoy the attached story and results. > > > > -Mike Fanelli > > > > Subject: McKenzie River - Results > > > > > > > > > We had a glorious day on the river, after a hard rain on Friday > > > dampened the trail and riled up the yellow jackets. Craig Thornley > > > battled fellow Eugenean Kevin Myers all morning, coming back from > > > a two minute deficit halfway through to prevail by 5 minutes. > > > > > > Lynn Nelson, also of Eugene, put forth what I must call a 'Trasonesque' > > > effort > > > as she took 45 minutes off the women's course record! She blew by > > > some pretty classy ultrarunners in John Robinson and Steve > > > Smucker, leaving them to wonder how they got beat by a woman > > > "in Oregon!" This lady is for real. If she can stay healthy, there > > > is no limit to where her national class track speed could take > > > her in the ultra world. > > > > > > This event concluded the state's first ultra trail series, and > > > interest in trail racing has never been higher in Oregon. The > > > popularity of the 50K distance has brought out a lot of new > > > faces, and with all the young people flocking to these events, > > > the health of the sport here is at an all time high. > > > > > > Phil Vaughn (RD) > > > > > > > > > 01 Craig Thornley 36 3:54:40 > > > 02 Kevin Myers403:59:34 > > > 03 LynnNelson 384:01:14 > > > 04 JohnRobinson 34 4:02:47 > > > 05 Steve Smucker 46 4:02:53 > > > 06 JohnPearch 27 4:06:43 > > > 07 Justin Soares 21 4:08:53 > > > 08 DaveMcJunkin554:12:27 > > > 09 AndyDale 31 4:12:41 > > > 10 Scott Diamond 39 4:16:14 > > > 11 CurtRingstad 48 4:32:19 > > > 12 Dante Biancucci 29 4:35:50 > > > 13 JeffPhillips 28 4:37:55 > > > 14 Susan Fox 32 4:38:52 > > > 15Clem LaCava 514:38:58 > > > 16 Steve Petersen 46 4:41:48 > > > 17 Carmen Ripley 30 4:44:32 > > > 18 MikeHendrickson 37 4:46:20 > > > 19 Sylvia Dion28 4:49:14 > > > 20 GeneSkinner 44 4:49:30 > > > 21 MarcAdams 32 4:49:30 > > > 22 Rod Beckner 35 4:50:53 > > > 23 MarkWarner 41 4:51:35 > > > 24 GregWheeler 544:52:03 > > > 25 Michael Christiansen 35 4:53:40 > > > 26 Linda Samet 34 4:54:11 > > > 27 LisaHusaby 37 4:58:48 > > > 28 Marcus Mayfield 44 5:01:39 > > > 29 Kelly Woodke 33 5:02:01 > > > 30 Laurie Cullen 36 5:02:39 > > > 31 JodiKartes 30 5:03:48 > > > 32 Steve Loitz 44 5:07:44 > > > 33 Scott Martin 28 5:08:54 > > > 34 David Lygre 58 5:08;54 > > > 35 Kelly Strome 36 5:10:14 > > > 36 Stephan Willow 32 5:11:13 > > > 37 Clayton Gillette 445:11:37 > > > 38 DaveChase 52 5:15:00 > > > 39 MarkKalen 36 5:15:45 > > > 40 Ken Ward43 5:16:33 > > > 41 Colin Loader 37 5:18:07 > > > 42 Jan Liebeskind 395:18:33 > > > 43 David Brewer 48 5:19:02 > > > 44 Ted Heid56 5:25:19 > > > 45 KirkHendrickson 46 5:26:28 > > > 46 MarkSchofer 40 5:26:51 > > > 47 Steve Varga 47 5:28:57 > > > 48 Bob Lynes 62 5:30:48 > > > 49 David Bateham 40 5:32:29 > > > 50 James Ridlington 55 5:33:46 > > > 51 Jon Gnass 45 5:38:37 > > > 52 Melissa Berman 47 5:38:40 > > > 53 Rebecca Wallick 42 5:38:40 > > > 54 JodyScheffelmaier 52 5:40:04 > > > 55 Aubrey Robbins 22 5:42:03 > > > 56 BillRobbins 64 5:42:22 > > > 57 JeffMikesell 395:44:22 > > > 58 Ben Benjamin 535:45:01 > > > 59 Diane Jones 41 5:45:43 > > > 60 Laura Cesar 23 5:48:17 > > > 61 Jeral Godfrey 57 5:55:33 > > > 62 SeanHarrasser 33 5:58:05 > > > 63 Barbara Ringstad 44 6:00:18 > > > 64 Ronda Sundermeier 326:03:23 > > > 65 Karen Gnass 38 6:04:16 > > > 66 Stacey Bunton 36 6:05:29 > > > 67 Mar
Re: t-and-f: More Testicular Fortification (with permission)
Alright! What a great post. Best thing I've read in a few years. If I were still doing the Grote Poll, I would have to move NC State up just for this post. This Keller kid obviously has what it takes. Well done, my friend, well done. Grote adiRP - Original Message - From: David Aaron Keller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Track-Fans <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; malmo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, October 09, 2000 2:45 AM Subject: Re: t-and-f: More Testicular Fortification (with permission) > Sorry to ruin your post, but I've been trying to get off this e-mail server > forever. I've heard the only way is to string together an unbelievable number > of obscenities. So here it goes: fuck you you you lobster sucking shitbag. > Eat a pile of my steaming shit. You manually masterbate female otters for > artificial insemination. You all suck donkeys for cash and prizes. Blow me. > Sorry if this offends anyone, but eat my shit. So long suckers. Peace. . . > I'm outta here. No really, truly I'm sorry. > > Sincerely, > > K-dogg > > Go pack. > > P.S. Stanford rules. > > > > > On Mar 1, 4:00pm, malmo wrote: > > Subject: t-and-f: More Testicular Fortification (with permission) > > > > Games Olympic People Play > > Rounding up the usual suspects > > by Charlie Francis > > > > On some levels, it somehow seems a shame to reignite the flame of scandal so > > soon after the Olympic flame has been extinguished. Of course, it's not our > > nature to bury our heads in the sand, and the only way that the integrity of > > the Olympics can be regained is to expose its weaknesses, to shine a bright, > > cleansing light on the crud that grows on its belly. > > > > Hence this report on Olympic drug scandal, Olympic politics, and Olympic > > pettiness written by perhaps the world's greatest track coach, Charlie > > Francis. > > > > Read it and you'll have enough dish to be the hit of any locker room > > conversation. > > -- -- > > -- > > > > Pulled hamstrings, falls, viruses, upsets, surprise non-qualifiers, pre-game > > departures amidst claims of death threats, allegations and accusations! > > > > What in the wide world of sports was going on in Sydney? > > > > The drug story took center stage early in the games with the revelation that > > CJ Hunter, the current World Champion in the Shot Put and husband of sprint > > phenom Marion Jones, had previously failed four separate drug tests for the > > anabolic steroid nandrolone in various European competitions prior to the > > Olympics. > > > > The press had been following up rumors to this effect for weeks prior to the > > games, but had been met with denials all around. "There are no positive > > tests being processed," announced the U.S.A.T.F., America's track governing > > body in response to reporter queries. "Bullshit," said Hunter/Jones agent > > Charlie Wells in response. > > > > The aforementioned stuff hit the fan shortly afterward when the > > International Amateur Athletics Federation's (IAAF) Chief Doping Officer, > > Arne Ljungqvist, made CJ's positive tests official. The USATF, who had said > > no positive tests were being processed, was caught in a blatant lie and > > scrambled for cover behind Clintonesque legalisms. They pointed to a > > definition of "positive" [drug tests] that was more narrow than the > > President's definition of "sex." > > > > The IAAF then added fuel to the fire of scandal by announcing that there > > were 15 more American positives that the USATF had covered up. (Actually, > > the press has been following up on eight cases for the year 2000, 17 for the > > year 1999, and more from 98, 97, and 96.) > > > > A press conference was hastily arranged by the Hunter/Jones camp to try to > > limit the damages and allow Marion to go on with her quest for gold in > > peace. Enter Johnny Cochran of OJ Simpson fame. Cochran had previously > > represented Jones (successfully) in 1992 during a random drug testing > > controversy. > > > > CJ Hunter then issued a tearful pro-forma denial. He had reason to be > > tearful, for while the test results were no surprise, their release to the > > public outside the USATF's control certainly was. He would ordinarily have > > expected the positive tests to go away as he would have known that USATF > > doping panels have been routinely dismissing nandrolone and Testosterone > > positives out of hand, claiming them to be scientifically insupportable. > > > > Without the list of names, the IAAF would have been powerless to overturn an > > USATF decision, even though they routinely did it elsewhere. > > > > The press conference achieved one of its two objectives by isolating Marion > > >from the damage, but failed on the other. Hunter was vilified and ridiculed, > > "How Could He Do This To Her?" cried one American paper. "Beauty and the > > Beast" cried another. His "iron supplement defense" was laughed at, although > > not with
Re: t-and-f: Steroids and major league baseball
Nobobdy ever talks about pro basketball, the NBA. NFL and baseball are brought up, but look at the type of athleticism involved in the NBA. Explosive bursts and pretty extended exertion. Performance enhancement could come in handy. Wouldn't trainers/doctors give anything and everything to keep the stars on the court, people in the seats, money in the pockets, and so on... Wondering if some supplements could be adversely effecting kidneys recently? I dunno, but if people think athletes in one professional sport are doing something, why not another? As for hockey players, watch "Slapshot" and it still holds true today, those guys are old school, they just drink. Grote adiRP - Original Message - From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2000 11:21 AM Subject: Re: t-and-f: Steroids and major league baseball > football and many college athletics), Major League Baeball does not randomly > test players for any performance enhancing drugs. > > > And thus does not have to deal with public relations disasters such as positives to stars, false positives, inane excuses and explanations, coverups, lawsuits and questioning of every athlete's motive when they are injured, don't run well, break records, have quantum leaps in performance, etc. > > Don't tell me the NFL tests with any regularity. How many naturally built 310lb lineman can their be? > > Steve S. > > >
t-and-f: Colorado Buffaloes
Who cares about Privolava or Provolone for that matter... Who cares about the 4 x 100 team... I do still care about the Yanks... But, most importantly, Colorado won Pre-Nats. Call it what you will, its just Pre-Nats, but they were on the top of the results, and they look pretty tough. Individual wins from Torres and Wheeler to boot... Grote adiRP
t-and-f: Best X-C Team Ever from Texas to Race at Michigan with a 1st Year Coach From Jersey...
Long title, The honor goes to Coach Jason Vigilante's University of Texas Longhorns. Coach Vig undoubtedly quelled the rioting hordes in Austin that were rampaging after the football massacre in the Red River Rivalry. Less than a week later, still smarting from the Sooner slaughter, the bravehearted Texas mens cross-country team won the prestigous Michigan Interregional. The most beloved man from New Jersey in the state of Texas is definitely NOT Chris Simms (he's from Bergen County, that might be his problem) it has to be Jason Vigilante. In the Grote Poll Preview, I was just kidding when I said that Texas Tech, Texas A&M, and Texas-justaboutanybody would trash Vigs 'Horns. I had faith in the guy, but did not think it would go this far. Looks to me like Coach Vig might be present with his team when one of his teachers teams hauls a whole bunch of hardware in Ames. Grote adiRP
Re: t-and-f: Re: Embarassment
Sorry, but I'd rank Olympics #2, and NCAA D1 X-C/THE GROTE POLL far above and beyond all else at #1. Grote adiRP - Original Message - From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, October 23, 2000 4:16 PM Subject: Re: t-and-f: Re: Embarassment > In order of importance and attention to this US residing fan: > > 1. Olympics/World Champs > 2. IAAF Season > tie 3. College Season > tie 3. US Open Season > 5. US High School Season > > Juniors is so far down this person's radar that if it hadn't been brought up > on this list I wouldn't have known it was happening and when it was mentioned > my reaction was "in October? after the season is over?". > > The non existent performance by the US is pretty easy for US residents to > understand. > > Steve S. > >
t-and-f: Grote Poll Conference Preview
This should come as an attachment, hope it works, it might not because I'm at least half a retard. Give credit to me for doing this thing on wordpad instead of email, so that I don't lose it each week when my crappy computer wigs out or logs off or whatever it does that I don't understand. This will also be posted soon on http://www.tnfmedia.com as always. Mets fans? Yankee bashers? What now? I'm still trying to recover from the disaster of the mere 87 win season debacle. Grote adiRP conferences.doc
Re: t-and-f: Big 12 Men's Team Results
As impressed as I am with Big 12's, and as much as I am always a Buff fan, albeit a Pilot alum, lets answer Roger's question...well, sort of, at least. I'm not sure who has and when, but the key point is not to forget that UTEP scored 18 points at NCAA's in 1981 or 83, can't remember which. Yikes. Grote adiRP - Original Message - From: Roger Ruth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Saturday, October 28, 2000 10:41 PM Subject: Re: t-and-f: Big 12 Men's Team Results > Earlier today, Benji Durden posted: > > > 2000 Big 12 Conference Cross Country Championships > > October 28, 2000 > > Men's Team Results > > > > 1. UNIVERSITY OF COLORADO > > 1 2 3 4 6 (9) (36) = 16 > > Jorge Torres, Steve Slattery, Ed Torres, Mike Friedberg, Sean > > Smith, Zach Crandall, Jason Robbie > > > For a long time, Bill Easton hung a photo in his office at Allen > Fieldhouse, showing four Jayhawks charging down Campanile Hill, with nary > another runner in sight. I don't know where the fifth KU runner finished, > or whether there were five scoring places in those days (ca. 1956?). > Otherwise, I would think Colorado's must be an all-time best for the Big > 7/Big 8/Big 12. Right? Has any team ever swept a major conference XC > championship? > > > >
Re: t-and-f: FitSense FS-1 at the Chicago marathon expo
I'm eagerly awaiting the arrival of FitSense that I've committed to carrying. I've heard good things about Sportbrain, as well. But since we are dropping reps names, a guy by the name of Ted Fitzpatrick is marketing FitSense, not a dumby as a Dartmouth grad, and a decent runner, as well. Grote adiRP - Original Message - From: Hanks, Jeffrey S <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: track list <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, October 30, 2000 5:54 PM Subject: t-and-f: FitSense FS-1 at the Chicago marathon expo > At the expo for the Chicago Marathon last weekend, a company called FitSense > was showing off a new device they've designed called the "FS-1". They claim > it can measure distance run by up to 98% and also reports back pace (in > miles/hour), as well as heart race (if attached to a heart rate monitor). > Unlike pedometers, which use a static length for stride length, this device > can supposedly adjust to a runners varying stride length. > > It "seems" like it would be really useful, but my question is has anyone on > the list had any experience with this either through personal use or through > coaching? Also, could anyone familiar with this device explain how it works > if not by counting footfalls? > > Thanks, > Jeff Hanks > >
t-and-f: Post-Conference Meet Grote Poll
The Grote Poll October 31, 2000 Halloween... Let me get right into it, some great conference meets were run which featured some inter-regional action, namely the Big East and Big 10. A few big guns were wheeled out who had not raced yet and will factor heavily at nationals. The Grote Poll Top 31 will capture it all and present the teams in projected order of finish right now based on the criteria that the teams meet for reaching NCAA's as an automatic or at-large qualifier. As always, do not whine and disagree with me, if you don't like it, stick with your own opinion. Any offenses that I do make where I may rank a team ahead of a team that it lost to are my prerogative because I am Grote and this is my poll...the Grote Poll. Any outright errors that I make, I'll go ahead and blame on my dog, Gervin, who's sitting and sleeping right next to me. THE GROTE POLL TOP 31 1. STANFORD- First off, let me just say that Stanford sux. Everything is just too good there, and I'm tired of it. Academics, facilities, weather, talent, blah, blah, blah. That said, Stanford showed at PAC-10's what it did not show at Pre-Nationals, which is the potential to devastate. As suspected, a real top 5 of Riley, Luchini, Murley, Robison and Sage looked to be unbeatable. The places went 1-3-4-6-7 at a meet where there is still plenty of depth, and the times covered a range of 23:39-23:56. My math tells me that is a 17-second spread off of Jon Riley, who was 3rd at Pre-Nats. Even if you get generous and plug that lineup in there using a 30 or even 40-second spread, Stanford likely puts 5 in front of Colorado's 3rd, Mike Friedberg. National titles are not won with "if's" though, and maybe that would not have happened, or maybe the Buffs would not let it happen. Last year they lost at PAC-10's, so they obviously made a statement this year. The top 5 sure look bulletproof, but 3 of them do not have NCAA experience and the cast of characters (Hejny, Parris, Powell, Jennings, Stember) that could be used to fill out the top 7 all have question marks. 2. COLORADO- It is always hard to compare results from a x-c meet in Boulder, such is the case at Big 12's. CU destroyed Oklahoma State in a manner that Arkansas did not approach, but altitude aided that. Still, they ran over Vasquez and the rest of the Cowboys and some other good individuals in impressive fashion. Perhaps the best sign was the Ed Torres and Mike Friedberg ran as the Buffs #3-4 guys instead of #4-5 guys a la Ames. Late summer injuries have brought the two along it appears. Sean Smith ran amazingly for 16th at Pre-Nats, right ahead of K-State's Kimeli, and at conference he was right behind, so he could be used as a consistency gauge showing improvement for E. Torres and Friedeberg. Even more than Stanford, however, CU relies on 5 and only 5 guys for its scoring hopes to win nationals. Some of the Stanford guys would seem to have bigger upsides, but Friedberg is a 4th man who has run 28:51. To win, Torres needs to be scored on one hand, and Slattery probably on two at the most. Beyond that, the other 3 need to be Top 30, and hope Stanford does not get 5 in before 20th. Can Colorado win? Yes. Are they the favorite? No. Will they win? I dunno, that is why they run the race. 3. PROVIDENCE- Ray Treacy's Friars are good and they are consistent. PC handled a G'town team that was a close 5th at Pre-Nats, but ran an infinitely better race at Big East (see #5, but not until you are done with #'s 3/4, respectively). Keith Kelly is one of 3 strong favorites to win, along with Torres and the apparantly eligible and fit enough David Kimani of Alabama. Kelly dominated a pretty good field in Boston, with a meet record 23:21. A 50-second spread off of a top 3 guy nearly guarantees you a top 4 trophy. Providence also has the luxury of having capable 6, 7, and even 8th men in case of top 5 fallout. 4. ARKANSAS- As impressive as the top 3 teams were in their conference, Arkansas really was not in the SEC. Granted the meet was a gimme, but previous questions as to the consistent x-c abilities of Karie and Travis were raised once again. Maybe they did not run that hard? Who knows. Either way, a performance like the SEC one does not make Arkansas a threat to the throne. To contend with Stanford and Colorado, the Hogs must have Karie close to Karanu at front, and Travis or somebody closer to Link and Lincoln. Methinks that Arkansas will put it together at nationals as they always do with the exception of 1994 at home. The year after that 10th place debacle was the last time NCAA's were at Iowa State, and the Hogs won when they really were not expected to win. 5. GEORGETOWN- How can the Hoya's be 5th? Well, I'll blame this one on Gervin, he saw their logo and licked it or something, even though he's a Weimeraner. In reality, G'town did not run well at Pre-N
Re: t-and-f: $$$$$ not the root of all evil.
What a wacky idea...I proposed a few years back that we make the likes of Machuka and Hanneck citizens, they were road kings for a while. Turns out Hanneck is now, but he's not the same guy. Who needs to, though, when we have a new American Record marathon from Special K, and 2 young new sub-28 guys this year in Abdirahman and Keflezighi. Hey, that Kimani guy has been in Alabama for a few years, does Alabama still count as being in the US? Grote adiRP - Original Message - From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, November 06, 2000 7:34 PM Subject: Re: t-and-f: $ not the root of all evil. > > In a message dated 11/6/00 7:22:19 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > > >This just means there would be no-one left running for most third world > >countries. Anyone approaching elite status would just take out US (etc) > >citizenship.. > > Well, that's one way to end the US distance drought ;-) > > Jim Gerweck > Running Times >
Re: t-and-f: RE: : Team USA Training Centers - How and Why?
And while you are at it, explaining things, whoever the explainer may be, can you address this issueROCHESTER Grote adiRP - Original Message - From: Steve Vaitones <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2000 4:45 PM Subject: t-and-f: RE: : Team USA Training Centers - How and Why? > It was posted by > >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >Date: Sat, 4 Nov 2000 14:34:15 EST > >Subject: t-and-f: Team USA Training Centers > > > >Wire 89, November 3, 2000 > >In this edition of the Running USA wire: > >1) Team USA Training Centers Announced > >Copyright (c) 2000 Running USA > >* > >FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE > >For more information, contact: > >Basil Honikman, (805) 683-0408; [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >Ryan Lamppa, (805) 696-6232; [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >Team USA Distance Running Announces Two Training Centers On-Line > >Sites Selected at Rochester Hills, MI and Rochester, NY with More Coming > > As these seem to be created somewhat out of the vapor in the past few months, > can someone post to the list a (pretty detailed) outline of : > > - how an area applied to be a Training Center > - how these centers were selected (some don't seem to be hotbeds of running) > - what is being provided for funding by both Running USA and USATF (like cash) > - what the "center" or sponsor at that center is expected to provide > (lodging, jobs, stipends, travel, ???) > - what the short and long term funding is to be > - what the focus of the program is - i.e., road running along, or distance > running to include track 5/10? > - what the status of women is, given the two named sites list no women on > their rosters > - whether athletes will be required to live "in-residence" at the centers, > and what the athletes other obligations are? > - whether there a plan to have a grant/support program that would work with > areas that may already have, by chance, decent training groups > or is all support going into these particular centers? > - how the SoCal program will get an in at the Olympic Training Center > - what the coaching / training / racing plans are for these groups > - what the plan is to evaluate the successes of particular centers and the > program as a whole > > Thanks > > Steve Vaitones > > >SANTA BARBARA, Calif. - (November 3, 2000) - Team USA Distance Running, a > >joint program of Running USA and USA Track & Field, announced today the > >establishment of two Team USA Training Centers in Rochester Hills, Michigan > >and Rochester, New York. The Centers--which will provide coaching, structured > >group training and athlete support and promotion--are a partnership between > >Running USA, USATF, Hansons Running Shop and Team BrownStone. > > > >"We welcome our first two Team USA Training Centers and applaud the > >initiative and generosity of Keith and Kevin Hanson and John Luther in > >forming their training groups. Their commitment to distance running is deeply > >appreciated. With several more training centers scheduled to be on-line in > >2001, together, we have a chance to elevate U.S. distance running in the > >minds of the public and to create an American running renaissance," stated > >Basil Honikman, Team USA Distance Running coordinator. > > > >"We are very pleased to partner with USATF and Running USA to dramatically > >improve post-collegiate American distance running. The Hansons Running Shop > >Olympic development program is proud to have our program recognized as a role > >model for developing U.S. distance runners," said Keith and Kevin Hanson of > >the Hansons Running Shop. > > > >"It is an honor to be associated with Running USA and USATF as one of the > >first Team USA Training Centers. It is gratifying to know that what we at > >Team BrownStone started two years ago will be part of the Team USA structure > >that will help bring U.S. distance running back to world-class levels. The > >true winners in this endeavor will be the athletes who will now have a > >program available to fully support their training and goals," stated John > >Luther, Team BrownStone coach. > > > >Plans for Team USA Southern California are nearing completion and this center > >may open early in the New Year. Led by Bob Larsen, former UCLA head track > >coach and headed by U.S. Olympian and 10,000 meter champion Meb Keflezighi, > >Team USA Southern California will probably utilize the ARCO U.S. Olympic > >Training Center in Chula Vista, California (near San Diego) together with > >high altitude springtime training at Mammoth in the California Sierras, east > >of Yosemite. > > > >In addition, Team USA Training Centers in Seattle, Washington with Club > >Northwest and USATF Vice President Bill Roe and Pocatello, Idaho under the > >direction of USATF Men's LDR chair Danny Grimes are also scheduled to open in > >2001. > > > >About Funds to Support Team USA Distance Running > > > >A fund raising program was announced at the U.S. Olympic Trials in Sacrame
Re: t-and-f: American Distance Club meeting at NCAA DI Championships
My only question is why is this meeting not being held in ROCHESTER, isn't that where its all going to be at Grote adiRP - Original Message - From: Andrew Gerard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2000 4:22 AM Subject: t-and-f: American Distance Club meeting at NCAA DI Championships > The American Distance Club announces its Fall Summit meeting to be held in > conjunction with the NCAA Division I Cross Country Championships in Ames, > Iowa. The mission of the ADC is to improve performances of American > distance runners through promotion of discussion and sharing of ideas > between coaches, providing opportunities for development through training > and competition, and create a fellowship in the American middle-distance > and distance community. So far, speakers have included coaches and > athletes such as Said Aouita, Frank Gagliano, Vin Lananna, Mark Wetmore, > Ron Warhurst, Sam Bell, Chick Hislop, Harry Groves, Dave Murray, Martin > Smith and John McDonnell. This meeting will serve as an organizational > meeting focusing on the future direction of the club. The rough agenda and > meeting information appears below. All current members and new members are > welcome. > > > American Distance Club > Fall Summit Meeting: > > "Where we are and where we're headed : > A discussion of the direction of the American Distance Club" > Discussion to include: > ® Re-examination of mission statement > ® Election of officers > ® Future meeting topics, times and locations > ® Treasurers' report > > at > The Microtel Inn and Suites > 2216 Southeast 16th Street (Off Hwy 30 - Ph: (515)233-) > 8:30pm to 10:00pm > Saturday, November 18th > > New members welcome > Annual dues are $100, payable at the door. > For additional information, see Andrew Gerard (William and Mary) > or Tim Connelly (Notre Dame) > > Andrew Gerard > Head Men's Track and Field Coach > College of William and Mary > > >
Re: t-and-f: RE: : Team USA Training Centers - How and Why?
Politics? If that is another word for money. USATF or USA Running or whatever goes where the money is even if its not the best situation. See womens and mens Olympic Marathon Trials. If somebody in Coosawhatchie, South Carolina, felt like WASTING money in the name of funding that was $5.00 more than whoever from Rochester spent, then this training center would be in Coosawhatchie, SC, and that would be THE place to be. Why knock the coach from Athletics America? When are people going to stop expecting to be paid or funded for not being particularly good at distance running just because they think they could be better if only they had a little more money and didn't have to have such a mean, nasty regular job? Grote adiRP - Original Message - From: MountainAir SportsManagement <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2000 8:30 PM Subject: Re: t-and-f: RE: : Team USA Training Centers - How and Why? > Rochester... > > Nothing more than a vacation spot for the New Mexico > based Shawn Hellybuyck stable of athletes. The list is > of athletes that she represents. > > Politics, Politics. Bravo for Keith and Kevin Hanson > getting selected. I think what they are doing for > young American Distance runners is great. Much more > than that shiester coach of the Athletics America crew > did. > > Also, if any of you think that you can provide a > better environment, benefits, coaching, and funding > for a group in your area; Running USA and USATF is > taking applications. I don't think they want to stop > at just 2 locations. > > Cheers... > > RP > Mountain Air Sports > > > > > --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > In a message dated 11/8/00 5:43:25 PM Eastern > > Standard Time, > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > > > > > And while you are at it, explaining things, > > whoever the explainer may be, > > > can you address this issueROCHESTER > > > > > > Grote > > > adiRP > > Rochester is a fine place to train with a group > > assembled that can support > > runners of caliber. Rochester and upstate NY has > > produced many Olympians and > > fine runners over the years. > > > __ > Do You Yahoo!? > Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one Place. > http://shopping.yahoo.com/ >
Re: t-and-f: Doug Schneebeck deserves our vote
That would be really swell...funding for all levels...but can I ask WHY? WHY does anybody need or deserve funding? Sure it would be nice, and its nice when you get it, but nothing is a birthright. Grote adiRP - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, November 17, 2000 5:40 PM Subject: Re: t-and-f: Doug Schneebeck deserves our vote the point is guys, that USATF should be funding, in some way, all levels of athletesread what the initials represent, slowly.louise
t-and-f: Ames Update From The Colonel
Just received call #1 from a true legend of our sport at 11:44. I picked up the phone, "Hello, Runners Pace" and was greeted with the question, "Ryan, do you have any woolen hats there?" My response was a sincere, "No I donated them all to the Stanford University X-C Teams". I was then informed that the temperature in Ames, Iowa is/was 18 degrees with 25 mph winds. Go Buffs! Please see page 3 of USA Today Sports today. Chris Lear's "Running With The Buffaloes" is recognized. A few original copies remain, but Lyon's Press will be putting out a nice hardcover version early in 2001. Grote adiRP
Re: t-and-f: gold-medal trivia question
Haile Gebresalasie?? Not sure on the World Cup, but believe pretty strongly that he did win the rest of that stuff. Grote adiRP - Original Message - From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2000 2:24 PM Subject: t-and-f: gold-medal trivia question > Got this from British stat maven Mark Butler. > Who's the only athlete ever to win at the Olympics, World Championships, > World Indoor Championships, World Junior Championships and World Cup? > A hint: remember that the first World Juniors wasn't until '86, so there's a > lot of history you can ignore. > gh > >
Re: t-and-f: Re: The World's [yuk]
If we are going to talk about baseball as a model for success, please just talk about successful baseball...The Yankees. Period. Anyway, look at what a home team hauls in each year, 81 games, with tons of concessions. Yankee Stadium has the best pretzels anywhere, at $3.75 a pop. Noboby cares, they fork over the cash. Or how about this one, BEER at track meets. Don't tell me about laws, rules against it at college stadiums. It would work. It would bring in more cash, so somebody make it work. Know how much a crappy Bud is at Yankee Stadium Six Bucks. Ridiculous, but people load up on the 6-buck beers, which is pretty good for the profit margins. Oh wait, of course there is a posted 2 beer limit. So if you are a total numbskull and can't figure out that there is no way to keep track of such things, or that you couldn't just go to another stand... Anyway, sell beer at track meets...work it in as a sponsor...there is plenty of good, local microwbrewed beer in places like Eugene, Portland, and Seattle. Start small there, sell some Nor'wester at the adidas meet at 6 bucks a pop, later on show the profit numbers to the big boys for national sponsorship from a Bud or whatever. And don't tell me that its not legal on college campuses or that it would be too hard to supervise or insure or whatever. Also, minor league ball is another good point. Its not just a success in backwoods type of places, either, believe me. There are several new minor league ballbarks in Jersey here that attract VERY well. Closest to me the Somerset Patriots are an Independent League team in the 3rd wealthiest county in the US, located about 35 miles from NYC. They sellout regularly...and they sell beer. Grote adiRP - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, December 04, 2000 11:49 AM Subject: Re: t-and-f: Re: The World's [yuk] So we are going to play the numbers game? All the numbers you just gave us does not speak to the health of the sport on the field. None of those numbers tell the story of the teams in small markets that are in direct danger of folding, or having to move because the money to operate is not there. Those numbers do not tell you that the rich teams win, and the poor teams lose. To indulge you in your numbers barrage, track could post some impressive numbers also (as could any sport), if we had 162 games to rely upon. The Dodgers are still trying to sell their 3 million attendance mark, as a benchmark. But given their new budget, and the capacity of Dodger Stadium, getting 3 million a year is not very impressive, nor is it fiscally good. I am not advocating a laser light show in place of track, I am open to accents. Baseball has the seventh inning stretch, the organs, and occasional music. Football has music and cheerleaders. Basketball has music, cheerleaders and opening laser shows. Millrose had the best introduction I have ever seen last year. It did not take away from the event, nor did it break the continuity of the meet, and it added some excitement and drama to the event. There are things that can and should be done to enhance the track meet. We need a broader base, and things to attract and keep fans, and participants, and sponsors. Darrell The G.O.A.T.
Re: t-and-f: Future track superstar?
Mr. Grant, As for future superstars from NJ this year...my vote goes to DWIGHT RUFF of Camden...he's got another superstar at his HS named DaJuan Wagner, but unlike Wagner, Ruff will likely stay in college and graduate and is not on probation for assault. Ruff ran a state record 50.32 in the 400H this year. He's going to Baylor, following their 1-2 NCAA finish. Could be the next Angelo Taylor...I bet on Ruff making the Olympic team in 2004. Grote adiRP/MMRD - Original Message - From: Ed Grant To: track net Sent: Friday, July 06, 2001 6:16 PM Subject: t-and-f: Future track superstar? Netters: This was quite a year for NJ HS track, of course, but there will be more to come. Three National winners return next year: Glenn DiGiorgio of Bayonne in the boys' SP, Tawana Watkins of Paterson Kennedy in the girls 400H and soph Michael Morrison of Willingboro in the boys' HJ> But we have another contender who didn't quite make it to Raleigh this year. he is Andre Callender of Seton Hall Prep, also a soph, who suffered a minor leg injury in mid-season that p=made his condition so doubtul that his coaches didn't consider cntering him until it was too late After that injury, he was unable to train regularly over the hurdles, but still came on to run 13.91 in the all-group final (after a heat at 14.01). he is an imposing physical specimen who has all it takes to be a first-class international hurdler were it not that he is also a definite Division I and NFL prospect as a running back in football. (He also played basketball this past winter, somewhat ineffectually) We will just have to wait an see what the future brings, but it doesn't look bright for the track and field propects right now, though he could dominate the event in our state the next two years along with another football player, Jeff Porter of Franklin, who ran just over 14.00 this year. Ed Grant
Re: t-and-f: re: NJ Superstars
I believe you neglected to mention that these records are for racewalking, correct? - Original Message - From: Michael J. Roth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: T&F Listserve <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2001 1:01 AM Subject: t-and-f: re: NJ Superstars > 2 other blips on the future-star radar from NJ are Zachary Pollinger and > Christina Farrell. Zachary broke the Freshman 1 mile record at the > Indoor National Scholastic Champs and Christina was 2nd in the Jr 5000 > at Penn as a 12 year old. > > MJR > >
t-and-f: Top NJ HS Milers...WALK or RUN
Only that another kid from NJ, freshman from Parsipanny Hills named Jeremy Zagorski, set a Morris County frosh record in the 1600 this year of 4:16 and change. Bet that is quicker than your boy Zach Pollinger did his mile...OK, his was indoors, and the 4:16 was for 1600m. So let me get this straight, if you didn't mention the racewalking and are getting all defensive about not denigrating it or making it less deserving, are you saying that its all equal if on foot? If that is the case, then your boy can go ahead and enter the NJSIAA high school meets and be judged on the same guidelines, time and place, right? That is, since they don't have racewalking in high school track in NJ...which of course doesn't make it less deserving as an event. Maybe your boy Pollinger can tangle with Zagorski next year...only that Zagorski ran his PR in the Meet Of Champions, which you have to qualify for...Pollinger would not qualify, in fact wouldn't even make the sectionals. But oh wait, thats different he's WALKING. Oh wait, racewalking is a differnent discipline, different event, right? So why did you fail to mention it as such? You can't just go out and say some that John Godina threw 70 feet and some high school kid threw 120, lots of them actually, ones that didn't even make it to the state meetwithout talking about what they throw. 70 feet in shot...pretty darned good. 120 feet in the discus...not all that exceptional. So maybe your boy did set a record, but make it clear what the record was. Unless you feel embarassed by it. Grote adiRP/MMRD - Original Message - From: Michael J. Roth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Ryan Grote <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: T&F Listserve <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2001 2:21 PM Subject: Re: t-and-f: re: NJ Superstars > Ryan, > > There was no neglect at all, and no reason to denigrate these > performances by somehow qualifying them as less deserving because of the > event that they choose to undertake. > > Next . . . > > MJR > >
Re: t-and-f: Top NJ HS Milers...WALK or RUN
Not knocking Pollinger at all, knocking the guy who in the first place did not designate what event Pollinger was setting records in... Obviously I am not a fan of racewalking, but that does not matter. I'm not a fan of the Red Sox, either. Grote adiRP/MMRD - Original Message - From: Edward Koch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: sean other <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Ryan Grote <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Michael J. Roth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: T&F Listserve <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2001 9:56 PM Subject: Re: t-and-f: Top NJ HS Milers...WALK or RUN > Why not just agree that Zagorski is the best upcoming NJ athlete whose > last name begins with "Z" and Zac Pollinger is the best whose first name > begins with "Z." (unless Ed Grant wants to throw some additional names at > us.) And we all know from the posts submitted by Ryan, Ed, me and others > that New Jersey has numerous great athletes. > > By the way, I can attest that Zac is not Mr.. Roth's boy. I know Zac's > dad well. Bill Pollinger is USATF-NJ Secretary and a USATF Certified > Official. > > Ed Koch > > > -Original Message- > From: sean other <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: Ryan Grote <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Michael J. Roth > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Cc: T&F Listserve <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; [EMAIL PROTECTED] > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Date: Saturday, July 07, 2001 6:54 PM > Subject: Re: t-and-f: Top NJ HS Milers...WALK or RUN > > > >Hey Grotey Baby, > >I've a freshman walker here in Ireland who can run > >4:12 mile. > >Sean > >--- Ryan Grote <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> Only that another kid from NJ, freshman from > >> Parsipanny Hills named Jeremy > >> Zagorski, set a Morris County frosh record in the > >> 1600 this year of 4:16 and > >> change. Bet that is quicker than your boy Zach > >> Pollinger did his mile...OK, > >> his was indoors, and the 4:16 was for 1600m. > >> > >> So let me get this straight, if you didn't mention > >> the racewalking and are > >> getting all defensive about not denigrating it or > >> making it less deserving, > >> are you saying that its all equal if on foot? If > >> that is the case, then > >> your boy can go ahead and enter the NJSIAA high > >> school meets and be judged > >> on the same guidelines, time and place, right? That > >> is, since they don't > >> have racewalking in high school track in NJ...which > >> of course doesn't make > >> it less deserving as an event. Maybe your boy > >> Pollinger can tangle with > >> Zagorski next year...only that Zagorski ran his PR > >> in the Meet Of Champions, > >> which you have to qualify for...Pollinger would not > >> qualify, in fact > >> wouldn't even make the sectionals. But oh wait, > >> thats different he's > >> WALKING. > >> > >> Oh wait, racewalking is a differnent discipline, > >> different event, right? So > >> why did you fail to mention it as such? > >> > >> You can't just go out and say some that John Godina > >> threw 70 feet and some > >> high school kid threw 120, lots of them actually, > >> ones that didn't even make > >> it to the state meetwithout talking about what > >> they throw. 70 feet in > >> shot...pretty darned good. 120 feet in the > >> discus...not all that > >> exceptional. > >> > >> So maybe your boy did set a record, but make it > >> clear what the record was. > >> Unless you feel embarassed by it. > >> Grote > >> adiRP/MMRD > >> > >> - Original Message - > >> From: Michael J. Roth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >> To: Ryan Grote <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >> Cc: T&F Listserve <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >> Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2001 2:21 PM > >> Subject: Re: t-and-f: re: NJ Superstars > >> > >> > >> > Ryan, > >> > > >> > There was no neglect at all, and no reason to > >> denigrate these > >> > performances by somehow qualifying them as less > >> deserving because of the > >> > event that they choose to undertake. > >> > > >> > Next . . . > >> > > >> > MJR > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > >__ > >Do You Yahoo!? > >Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail > >http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ > >
Re: t-and-f: Jenny Adams
Good point, been meaning to ask where is she from, that is where did she go to college? Not your typical looking high hurdler, looks more like a 3k/5k runner or something. Kicking some ass, though. Grote adiRP/MMRD - Original Message - From: Conway <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: T-and-F@Lists. Uoregon. Edu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2001 3:36 PM Subject: t-and-f: Jenny Adams > Alan Webb got a lot of play earlier in the season due to his breakthrough > this year in the mile .. I think Jenny Adams has had as big a breakthrough > in the 100H .. Who would have thought at the beginning of the year that the > US would be in the running for gold in the 100H at world's and that it might > not be Devers ?? Adams has had a very consistent season so far and the way > things are going would not be a surprise at the top of the medal stand in a > few weeks ... Unfortunately she seems to be left out when we give kudos here > on the list ... So here's hoping she medals at worlds .. > > Conway Hill > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > >
Re: t-and-f: Grote where are you?
Thanks for caring everybody. Its a busy time of year, x-c season starting means busy business. Plus, don't forget that I'm married and own a home. And I run sometimes, too. That said, there will be a GROTE POLL 2001, oh yes there will. The Wife and I are roadtripping to Greenville, SC, for nationals, as well and bringing a few friends with us. Trip is actually booked. We are there. The Grote Poll may be posted on the letsrun.com website. Any other takers, let me know, collegerunning.com or whatever. As we all know, the coaches poll sucks, as does Stanford. And the Red Sox. And the Nets, but I love them anyway...even with Todd MacCulloch who'll break a leg soon enough to not be a salary cap burden. Anyway, this is the 2nd time I've checked email since Saturday, don't even know full worlds results yet, so haven't done too much Grote Poll work yet, so any good tips would be appreciated. I hope to have a Grote Poll 2001 Preview out around the first week of September. Couple hints to keep you riveted: -Kimani really did run 13:10, didn't he? -Arkansas has won 3 straight, they gotta be #1, even if Todd Day and Scott Thurman have come back to school following botched NBA moves, and are running in the Hogs top 5. -Grape Crush -Bigtime in the Big East Grote adiRP/MMRD - Original Message - From: P.F.Talbot <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Track list <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, August 17, 2001 12:37 PM Subject: t-and-f: Grote where are you? > Half-way through August and no talk yet of the fall NCAA cross season. > > I'm starting to miss the good old days > > Paul > > >
Re: t-and-f: RE: something else to chew on
I'll chime in on this one, as the cause of the problem is quite simple: NIKE SUCKS. Get somebody, anybody else on the job and uniforms will improve. Grote adiRP/MMRD - Original Message - From: Kurt Bray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2001 2:37 PM Subject: Re: t-and-f: RE: something else to chew on > Jim opined: > > >IMHO, the last good looking uniforms the USA had were the '72 OG. > > Yes, I agree that those were the best looking in my memory. However, I > liked the USA '91 World Champs uniforms too. They were white front and back > with predominantly red trim on the side, kinda stylish but not too "busy". > > With the uniforms today it's hard to determine at a glance exactly which > country the athlete is from. > > Kurt Bray > > > _ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp > >
Re: t-and-f: The Dude poll - men's XC
The Dude Poll? Oh, thats great. Lots of credibility when you can't even use a name. Haven't bothered to read it, but I can't argue with his #1. The real killer to his credibility is in his final lines, some reference to drinking a Coronaha! Although I'm not drinking anything these days, you'll find the refrigerator always stocked with GERMAN beer at the Grote House...no, Heineken ain't German, and Beck's doesn't count...here's an inventory from memory of current stock: -Paulaner Salvator (6-8) -Paulaner Hefeweizen (4 or so) -Spaten Optimator (full 6) -Paulaner Oktoberfest -Hacker Pschorr Oktoberfest -Maybe a Warsteiner Dunkel or two, as well. The Grote Poll is coming, don't worry. Grote adiRP/MMRD - Original Message - From: P.F.Talbot <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Thexc Dude <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2001 12:22 PM Subject: Re: t-and-f: The Dude poll - men's XC > Of course this is just Division I. If you look at all of NCAA x-c, > Western State would fit in somewhere between 1 and 4 on this list. Their > 5th man is a 14:10 5k guy and their 1rst man is the fastest 10k guy in > college. > > On Thu, 30 Aug 2001, Thexc Dude wrote: > > > Grote is dead. There's a new player in town..and > > his name is The Dude. > > > > NCAA Men's XC poll > > by The Dude > > > > PRESEASON > > 1. Colorado > > > > They scored 94 points last year. They graduate 21st > > place and add Ritz. At worst, an even swap, if Ritz > > aclimates to 5000ft OK. Everyone improves just a > > little and they score 75 points. That should be good > > enough to win this year. > > > > 2. Stanford > > > > They have too much talent not to be 2nd. They lose > > their #1 and #2, but their remaining guys were all fr > > or so. Add the math major in, plus if Andy Powell can > > improve on his 251st place showing, they could move up > > from their 4th place team effort last year. Plus it > > shouldn't be -200 degrees for the Cali boys. > > > > 3. Providence > > > > Yes they lose Keith Kelley. But their returners went > > 11, 16, 45, and 48 in the team scoring last year. To > > give you an idea how powerful that is, only 4 schools > > had their 5th man at 50th place or better (in team > > scoring). They'll find a 5th and be right here, > > baring injury. > > > > 4. Notre Dame > > > > The math is simple here too. They were 9th last year > > at 276 points. Their 5th man scored 133 points. > > replace that with a single digit (perhaps a #1) with > > Shay, and even with the same placings for the others, > > they score around 140. That is easily good for 4th. > > But if anyone in the top 5 gets hurt, they drop > > several places. > > > > 5. Villanova > > > > 181 points last year, and they're all back. Gosh this > > is easy. > > > > 6. Arkansas > > > > They lose their #1, #2, and #3. McDonnell always > > finds a way, and he will here again. Lincoln and > > Travis will be solid. They will have at least 2 > > others. I think this year, their problem will be a > > 5th. I see 70th place or so, which puts them 6th. > > > > 7. Wisconsin > > > > The Badgers have a team that can win the whole > > thing.next year. They're going to do some planned > > redshirting of Wallace and Keller this year. They add > > Festa (who will place higher than) Tegenkamp, Spiker, > > and Winkel this year. So their top 5 from last year > > will only have one of the same faces. 7th is > > realistic, and top 3 next year, when everyone is in > > the mix. > > > > 8. NC State > > > > 11th last year - they bring everyone back, plus Dugan > > off of redshirt. On paper, that might place them > > higher, but the magic is gone in Raleigh. Too many > > rumors about partying and guys blowing off long runs. > > But they still have 10+ scholarships in distance, and > > that will give them enough talent for top 10. > > > > 9. BYU > > > > Top 10 now, then they'll finish 28-31 at NCAA's. > > That's been the pattern so why mess with it now. I'll > > just move them down 2 places every week. > > > > 10. William and Mary > > > > Gerard getting it done with a bunch of no names. Blue > > collar work ethic at an elitist school. A lot of > > people don't know that they finished 11th last year > > and had their whole team fall in the pile up at 800m > > at NC's. > > > > 11. Michigan > > > > A lot of people are predicting higher, but the smart > > money is to put them here. Wisnewski is talented, but > > burnout is a possibility. All those 130 mile weeks > > are catching up with him. The guy had maybe two legit > > races last year. Pilja will either be all-american or > > on psycho leave. Webb and Brannen's success will > > depend on how they handle the miles. Who's gonna be > > their 5th? Remember they were 7th in the conference > > and district last year. Do fall victim to the mindless > > hype. Plus look at their schedule. They race just > > about every weekend from Sept 21 to conference. It's > > Webb and the Boys
Re: t-and-f: Why not talk about College XC?
I'm working on it. Grote Poll is near completion, it will be posted at letsrun.com most likely. It will not be emailed out to the list, you'll have to suck it up and go to the website. Grote adiRP/MMRD - Original Message - From: Michael Jones <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: t-and-f <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, September 03, 2001 1:01 PM Subject: t-and-f: Why not talk about College XC? > The season has already begun and yet there is nothing about collegiate cross. I > also am a little surpised that we haven't heard from Grote yet. > > __ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger > http://im.yahoo.com >
Re: t-and-f: NCAA-I men's XC poll
Dull...boring...The Grote Poll is done, be patient and check letsrun.com and hopefully those wiseguy Ivy Leaguers will post it. For what its worth, Arkansas #3 is a total slap in the face. I don't care who they lost and who they return. If Oliver Miller is in their top 5, I don't care, they have won 3 straight. They'll find a way to compete for the win. At least start them at #1 until they get knocked off. They have some decent guys back in Lincoln and Travis. Look at their roster, some dude from Eldoret, Kenyan named SILVERUS KIMELI, he might not suck. Grote adiRP/MMRD - Original Message - From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2001 12:06 AM Subject: t-and-f: NCAA-I men's XC poll > THE MONDO NCAA-I MEN'S CROSS COUNTRY POLL > (pre-season poll-9/5/01)First regular season poll: Sept. 25 > Conducted by the UNITED STATES CROSS COUNTRY COACHES ASSOCIATION > > Ranking Team (first place votes)Points > > 1 Colorado (13) 397 > > 2 Stanford (3)379 > > 3 Arkansas342 > > 4 Providence 334 > > 5 Notre Dame 327 > > 6 Wisconsin 315 > > 7 Villanova 289 > > 8 Northern Arizona253 > > 9-tie Arizona 237 > > 9-tie Georgetown 237 > > 11 North Carolina State216 > 12 William & Mary 200 > 13 Oregon 194 > 14 Iona College148 > 15 BYU 145 > > 16 Indiana 138 > 17 Portland128 > 18 Weber State 115 > 19 Michigan107 > 20 Minnesota 100 > > 21 Arizona State 94 > 22 Alabama 92 > 23 Wake Forest 68 > 24 Air Force 59 > 25 Oklahoma State56 > > Also receiving votes: Eastern Michigan 52, Dartmouth 36, Ohio State 26, > Michigan State 24, Penn State 20, Texas 16, Colorado State 8, Duke 6, > Northern Iowa 6, Washington 6, Florida 5, Cal Poly-San Luis Obispo 3, > Missouri 3, Nebraska 3, Iowa 2, Princeton 2, St. Francis (Pa.) 2, Cal-Irvine > 1. > > Sponsored by Mondo. Voting panel consists of members of the executive > committee of the United States Cross Country Coaches Association. Compiled > by Don Kopriva, USCCCA Public Relations Director, P.O. Box 3040, Lisle, Ill. > 60532. For more information, contact him via e-mail at [EMAIL PROTECTED] or via > fax at 630/960-3218. > > >
Re: t-and-f: NCAA-I men's XC poll
Those damned Bros. Johnson...biased against Princeton or something. I swear I had him in there...must have been Weldon, the Yale guy. Nevermind that Rojo went to Princeton. Nevermind that I'm a nitwit. Yeah, he should be around...15th...Webb outkicks him...maybe better. Tough to say with a guy coming off of an injury RS versus a guy like Shay coming off a planned RS and NCAA title. Grote adiRP/MMRD - Original Message - From: Michael Contopoulos <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, September 07, 2001 10:44 AM Subject: Re: t-and-f: NCAA-I men's XC poll > Grote, > > I know you don't want suggestions, but you left Paul Morrison off your top > 25. Did you intend to do that? > > M > > > >From: "nad wilson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Reply-To: "nad wilson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >Subject: Re: t-and-f: NCAA-I men's XC poll > >Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2001 14:15:24 + > > > >It's really too bad that Scotty Thurman left early for the pros. he and > >Oliver Miller along with the returners (and maybe Nolan Richarson) could > >easily make a run at an NCaa title. > >never count out the hogs. > >dAN > > > > > >>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >>Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >>To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, > >><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >>Subject: Re: t-and-f: NCAA-I men's XC poll > >>Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2001 20:30:57 EDT > >> > >>In a message dated Thu, 6 Sep 2001 2:53:17 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > >>"Ryan > >>Grote" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > >> > >> > Dull...boring...The Grote Poll is done, be patient and check > >>letsrun.com > >>and > >> > hopefully those wiseguy Ivy Leaguers will post it. For what its worth, > >> > Arkansas #3 is a total slap in the face. I don't care who they lost > >>and > >>who > >> > they return. If Oliver Miller is in their top 5, I don't care, they > >>have > >> > won 3 straight. They'll find a way to compete for the win. At least > >>start > >> > them at #1 until they get knocked off. They have some decent guys back > >>in > >> > Lincoln and Travis. Look at their roster, some dude from Eldoret, > >>Kenyan > >> > named SILVERUS KIMELI, he might not suck. > >> > > >> > Grote > >> > adiRP/MMRD > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>Good observation, Grote. Silverus Kimeli is a transfer from Cloud CC, > >>where > >>he won a nifty 1500/3000 indoor double and also placed 3rd in the 5K. > >>sideshow > > > > > >_ > >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp > > > > > _ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp > >
Re: t-and-f: NCAA-I men's XC poll
Actually Todd Day probably had a better x-c build, and thus not exactly an NBA body for a 2 or 3...or how's this for going back a bit with Arkansas hoops and x-c bodies...SIDNEY MONCRIEF! Had a "Sir Sid" poster in my room as a youngster when living in Milwaukee...very underrated. Played incredible "D" so as a harrier McDonnell could just stick him on the Stanford #1 man, and Sidney would shut his ass down! Grote adiRP/MMRD - Original Message - From: nad wilson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, September 07, 2001 10:52 AM Subject: Re: t-and-f: NCAA-I men's XC poll > um, i just went an read the grote poll on letsrun.com and noticed that he > too mentioned scotty thurman. yeah, thats was a coincidence. weird. maybe > it's just that scotty has such a build for a XC runner... > dAN > > > >From: "nad wilson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Reply-To: "nad wilson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >Subject: Re: t-and-f: NCAA-I men's XC poll > >Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2001 14:15:24 + > > > >It's really too bad that Scotty Thurman left early for the pros. he and > >Oliver Miller along with the returners (and maybe Nolan Richarson) could > >easily make a run at an NCaa title. > >never count out the hogs. > >dAN > > > > > >>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >>Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >>To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, > >><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >>Subject: Re: t-and-f: NCAA-I men's XC poll > >>Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2001 20:30:57 EDT > >> > >>In a message dated Thu, 6 Sep 2001 2:53:17 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > >>"Ryan > >>Grote" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > >> > >> > Dull...boring...The Grote Poll is done, be patient and check > >>letsrun.com > >>and > >> > hopefully those wiseguy Ivy Leaguers will post it. For what its worth, > >> > Arkansas #3 is a total slap in the face. I don't care who they lost > >>and > >>who > >> > they return. If Oliver Miller is in their top 5, I don't care, they > >>have > >> > won 3 straight. They'll find a way to compete for the win. At least > >>start > >> > them at #1 until they get knocked off. They have some decent guys back > >>in > >> > Lincoln and Travis. Look at their roster, some dude from Eldoret, > >>Kenyan > >> > named SILVERUS KIMELI, he might not suck. > >> > > >> > Grote > >> > adiRP/MMRD > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>Good observation, Grote. Silverus Kimeli is a transfer from Cloud CC, > >>where > >>he won a nifty 1500/3000 indoor double and also placed 3rd in the 5K. > >>sideshow > > > > > >_ > >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp > > > > > _ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp > >
t-and-f: NJ area Perspective
Glad to hear that those on the list who have responded are OK. What we have to remember is that even if we are OK, there are thousands out there who have been devastated by this. I myself am thankful that I got to spend the day safe with my wife and was relatively unaffected, but am also mournful for those who have lost loved ones. Those we know are checking in OK, as well. Some people have asked about Joe McVeigh. I have spoken with him, he made it home safely to Summit, NJ, last night, and was very shaken up. I do not open my store until noon on Tuesday's, so I had the unfortunate timing of watching all of this unfold live around 9 AM yesterday as I drank coffee preparing to go do a track workout. My first though was Joe, a great friend. I thought I remembered him moving his office from the WTC further uptown a while ago, but was not so sure. Then I saw the 2nd building hit. I worried more. Turns out Joe used to be on the 59th floor of building two, but did move his office about 2.5 miles away. I then worried about my sister-in-law, a lawyer in midtown and others I know. I still have concern about a friend, Matt Rosetti, who works nears there, about 4/10 mile away, but have heard from Joe that he is likely OK. Another concern is Maggie Morrow, who works in the World Financial Center, still standing, but real close to the damage. She is engaged to Brian Clas, and they will marry a few weeks prior to Brian competing in the NYC Marathon. Like I said, I am grateful that my own life and the lives of most of the people close to me are relatively safe. I lost a day of business, but I know that a store like my own, Urban Athletics, owned by top NYRRC master Jerry Macari is located in the WTC plaza. I hope he and all of his employees are safe. The weather yesterday and today is pristine here in Bernardsville, a pleasant town where many commute by train. I still went to the Bernards High track and ran my workout. I could see a trail of smoke, but this was all. I remember thinking how normally on a day like yesterday I could see the tips of the towers from the track, but was not aware that both had collapsed. There are other lookout points that normally provide a nice, clear glimpse of the towers, something always of an icon to me. Its always a thrill to look out over the miles and see the symbol of a great city, yet still be in my own comfortable town. Yesterday evening, a took a 2nd run, a loop from home around the Somerset Hills Country Club, one of the world's top 100 courses, beautiful condition, always friendly to allow me to run on it. At the top of the course, I run past the grass tennis courts and look out over the links layout of the front nine, a clear unobstructed view over the pleasant valley of the Great Swamp lies to the east, from the top of Mine Mtn. Normally again are the clear and inspiring towers, from now on just a void. Again, my best wishes go out to all of those who have been devastated by this event. Grote adiRP/MMRD - Original Message - From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 5:45 PM Subject: Re: t-and-f: tf listers in NYC... > Some of you have e-mailed me so I thought I'd just respond to all...I'm fine, > our money management offices are 3miles north in mid-town Manhattan...It's > been a very upsetting day..the firm I used to work for, Morgan Stanley, had > 15 floors in one of the buildings...Thank you all for thoughts and best > wishes..Larry Rawson >
Re: t-and-f: Cheboiywo's training plan
Good for Boaz. How old is he again? Does he do any training with Yousri El Medjboudi (sp?) you know the guy who got the boot from and for Southern Miss a few years back? Heard they have some $imilar inter$t$. Then again, El Medjboudi was more into the road race scene than the track scene... Haven't read the article yet, but I will later, read USA Today sports everyday as a general rule, but won't get to the Boaz bull until after I revel in the article about the Yankees... Grote adiRP/MMRD - Original Message - From: Ed and Dana Parrot <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Athletics" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2001 10:27 AM Subject: Re: t-and-f: Cheboiywo's training plan > > There's a big piece in USA TODAY sports today on Boaz Cheboiywo. > > > > It mentions that Cheboiywo runs up to 120 miles a week with Saturday > > 20-milers often run at a 5:35-mile pace. (A warm-down after his weekly > > annilihation of his cross-country racing competition?) > > Pretty quick 20-miler for a cross country runner to be doing. I suspect > it's a lot slower than a lot of the top African marathoners run their long > runs, however. > > - Ed Parrot > >
Re: t-and-f: XC Long-Short Debate
Been saying this for years and maybe they are getting closer to it, but to promote the sport at the elite level to those at the grass roots level try this on for size: -Have a freaking short course x-c race at Van Cortlandt park on the classic 2.5 mile course the same day as the GIGANTIC Manhattan Invite which has around 8000 entrants, all school kids. Duh. -Make it a special, invite only, money most likely race. I'm sure there will be sponsor conflicts...but whatever, get over it. Have it in the middle of the day, right after some of the better varsity races. When's the last time that non-HS runners ran the 2.5 course? Would Hudson's record fall? -Field with guys like Broe, Goucher, Browne, Lunn, Famiglietti, Chorny, Rogers, Meb, whoever. Same idea with women. CAPTIVE AUDIENCE. Seems to make too much sense. Given that USATF is starting to push some of its big ticket events to a real market, to THE real market (NYC Metro) maybe this could happen. A tuneup event for the USATF X-C Nationals At VCP? What a concept, its been done before...hey maybe even just have ONE national x-c meet, not club/regular? US Marathon Champs are here, Hall of Fame will be here, Indoor Nats will be here, making a 2012 Olympic Bid...maybe a good outdoor facility in the vicinity? Grote adiRP/MMRD - Original Message - From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2001 1:07 PM Subject: t-and-f: XC Long-Short Debate > I don't see anything wrong with having both long and short course races. Just not at championship meets. > > I think cross meets can be made more exciting and fan-friendly in many ways. Adding a short course race is only one of them. > > Other ideas include making courses consisting of shorter loops, say 1200m-2000m, so virtually the entire race is visible. This might sound boring, but one of the best courses I've ever run was at the Brussels cross race where the loop was only 1500m. > > Another idea would be to have a race that is 1/5th of a marathon, and team places would be determined by adding the times of the top 5 runners. It might be fun to see how five college guys could compare to a world class marathoner. > sideshow >
Re: t-and-f: Grote Poll
Check out letsrun.com There has been nothing since Pre-Nats, but those results speak for themselves, which is good because having two races is too complicated and stupid for me to figure out. There will be nothing this week, kind of busy myself. I should have something before regionals and nationals. We'll be in SC for NCAA's. Arkansas will be #1. Grote adiRP/MMRD - Original Message - From: Michael Jones <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2001 7:09 PM Subject: t-and-f: Grote Poll > Grote has gotten very famous lately but will there be another Grote Poll in the > near future? > > __ > Do You Yahoo!? > Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. > http://personals.yahoo.com >
Re: t-and-f: marathon taper
Great subject... I suck at tapering...I hate it... Of the 6 marathons I have started I've struggled with the last few weeks each time, I've finished only 3 of them and barely that in my latest. Did the "best" taper to date for my latest debacle at NYC, followed a textbook 3-week job wherein the week ending 2 weeks out was 75% of peak mileage, the next week 60% of peak mileage and the last about a third of peak mileage in the last 6 days. Didn't feel too bad or lethargic or heavy, but still didn't feel as good as I did during peak mileage phase. Felt like I was bulletproof at that point and then on the actual day was far from it. Sometimes I think its best to just stick with what makes you feel strongest and toughest during the buildup...both training and nutritionally (my real downfall on the day of NYC). I felt a heck of a lot better on almost all of my important, hard long run Sunday's than I ever did on marathon Sunday. Lots of factors involved, some people (psychos like me) are probably better not backing off as much, no matter what the physiology says. For my mind, the more you taper and change things, the more worry/mental stress the event provides, would be better to treat it like any other race. I ran much better in races I "trained through" leading into the marathon. Whatever. Grote adiRP/MMRD - Original Message - From: Michael Rohl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Michael Contopoulos <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2001 2:59 PM Subject: Re: t-and-f: marathon taper > > Marathon tapers are very tricky, but doing more only make you tired. For an > athlete coming out of 80 mile weeks (a poor measure of training to begin with) > a 60-50-30(not including the race sounds about right. More important are the > key workouts that one would want to hit. Did the individual hit his 30k with > each 10 faster at marathon pace 3-4 weeks out? Did they get in 4*5k > progressively faster? Then you can cut morning runs, there by reducing volume, > by 20 % and maintain fitness. They only consideration that on might have is > being able to adjust diet to prevent weight gain, or watching salt intake to > prevent water retention. One reason I have handled Championships better then > most would expect is because of my ability to taper. Too little is almost > always going to be better then to much. In the last weeks. If you want I'll > write down a typical taper verbatim. > > Michael Rohl > Head Coach X-C, T&F > Mansfield University >
Re: t-and-f: NJ Footlocker candidates
As always, I will take this opportunity to chime in when my alma mater, Bernards is mentioned here, to beat the proverbially deceased horse once again: -The last NJ boys public school to win the Meet of Champs in x-c was none other than tiny Bernards in 1985...they had also won in 1981 and 1982. That streak was ended this year as Haddonfield's spectacular team won big, the first ever Group 2 school to win. So, only Group 3 or 4 or big parochial schools have won up until now, other than tiny Bernards. -Tiny Bernards was in the meet again for the first time in a few years, with a young, somewhat promising team, but finished dead last. -In a totally unrelated meet two days later than the NJ meet (neither of which were attended by anybody named Grote, despite my previous plans) the mens NCAA x-c title was won by Colorado. -The CU mens team win for Coach Mark Wetmore means that the only coach ever to have had a mens/womens team and individual x-c winner at the same school is...Wetmore. Lots of records and championships and things of that nature used to take place at Bernards until the late 80's pretty much...then it all changed. A few years later, Colorado got pretty consistently great. A few more years and a guy who used to run from Bernards sometimes wrote a great book about the great program, and some people read it and sort of got it and appreciated it. -So, Bernards last, Colorado first. 1985...Bernards first, what place was Colorado...? -Incidentally, there are as of right now, no Footlocker national candidates at Bernards...but there used to be. Grote adiRP/MMRD - Original Message - From: Ed Grant <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: track net <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 2:34 AM Subject: t-and-f: NJ Footlocker candidates > Netters: > > The Northeast Footlocker trials at Van Cortlandt park this Saturday > look like one of the toughest ever for both boys and girls, but New Jersey > may be able to place at least one qualifiert in each race off the results of > its AG meet at Holmdel last Saturday. (Full results are available on several > web sites now--Ed Scullion's siote, elite tacing (which did the meet) and > armorytrack > > The boys; race was the fastest mass finish in some years with six > boys under the 16:00 mark, three of them from a Haddonfield team which came > within 15 seconds of the team course record (Had John Bernetich been healthy > this fall, they surely would have broken it). > > Dan Deichert of Eastern pressed the pace, but faded in the last > mile and it was favorite Marc Pelerin who came over the line first in 15:43. > Junior Chris Platt of Haddonfield was next in 15:48 and Jim Flannery of St. > Joseph (Metuchen) 3rd in 15:51, just nipping another junior, Peter Hess of > Toms River North. It was quite a comeback for Flannery, who was the best > frosh in the state three years ago, but dropped out halfway through last > fall with a collapsed lung. > > Pelerin and Platt could both make the Footlocker finals and you > can't count out the four boys behind them. Platt had the fastest NJ time on > the VCP 2.5M course this fall with teammate Skip Stiles next best, followed > by Pelerin. > > The girls' AG race provided the biggest upset since Jodie Bilotta, > as a soph, defeated NJ VCP 2.5M record-holder Karen Ahearn of Bernards in > 1985. (Alearn finished 3rd that day behind future Olympian Anne Marie > Letko). > > Junior Lindsay VanAlstine of Hawthorne Christian improved her > Holmdel time by about 40 seconds to reverse earlier losses to Jesse Mizzone > of Passaic Valley. Van Alstine took the lead from the gun and finished 50 > yards ahead in 18:43. She is a one-girl team who plays basketball in the > winter and softball in the spring, though that could change after this > success. Both girls have a shot at Orlando in a very tough and deep field. > > TYhe team titles went to the favorites by large margins, neighbors > Haddonfield and Moorestown---both Gr. II schools (the second smallest group > in our state). The Haddonfield win ended a six-year string for Christian > Brothers (which finished 8th with two regulars on the sidelines who might > have got them up to 6th,m but no higher). It was an even longer time since a > public school (Gr. I Bernards) had last won the boys' title in 1985. > > Ed Grant > >
Re: t-and-f: NCAA Pre-Meet/Furman Invitational
I think its a travesty that Arkansas is ranked 3rd after they have won 3 straight titles and have brought in Cragg, Silverus Kimeli to replace who's gone. They should start #1 every year and stay there until somebody beats them, they've earned that. Then again, what the heck do polls matter? Or Pre-Nats? Grote adiRP/MMRD - Original Message - From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2001 6:08 PM Subject: Re: t-and-f: NCAA Pre-Meet/Furman Invitational > Pre-Nats??? This looks like Nationals minus Arkansas and Wisconsin!!! > > A quick count reveals that only 7 men's and 4 women's teams ranked in the top 25 in the latest polls won't be there. Ranked teams that will be there: > > Men: 1, 2, 5, 8-11, 13-22, 24 > Women: 1-6, 8,9, 11-13, 15-22, 24, 25 > > How much longer before Griak becomes the meet that qualifies you for the Pre-NCAA? :-) > > I think the qualifying system is much more fair than it was before the field was expanded, but at what cost? Many meets now suffer because schools prefer going to Pre-NCAA or Griak. For example: Murray Keating, Wolverine Interregional, Big Cross (Pasco, Wa), Central Collegiates, Paul Short, etc. > > And what about poor schools in the southeast district? They have to run at Furman for Districts as well. So probably half their races are on the same course. > > So is the Pre-NCAA idea a good one? I still think so, but would like to hear what others think. > sideshow > > > In a message dated Tue, 9 Oct 2001 5:21:40 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > > > Info from Furman on this Saturday's NCAA Pre-Meet. > > > > Following is some crucial information on the NCAA Pre-Meet/Furman > > Invitational, slated for Saturday, Oct. 13, at the Furman Cross Country > > Course (on the Furman Golf Course). > > > > Schedule of Events > > 8:30 Furman Invitational Junior Varsity Girls 5K > > 9:10 Furman Invitational Junior Varsity Boys 5K > > 9:40 Furman Invitational Varsity Girls 5K > > 10:15 Furman Invitational Varsity Boys 5K > > 10:45 NCAA Pre-Meet Women's Purple 6K > > 11:20 NCAA Pre-Meet Women's Silver 6K > > 11:55 NCAA Pre-Meet Men's Black 8K > > 12:35 NCAA Pre-Meet Men's Gold 8K > > 1:15 Furman Invitational Men's 8K > > 2:00 Furman Invitational Women's 6K > > > > Teams that have been accepted into the NCAA Pre-Meet races will be > > announced Thursday at noon on the Furman website. The address is > > www.furmanpaladins.com. Please click on the NCAA Championships logo, > > scroll down to the results section, and click on the Furman > > Invitational/NCAA Pre-Meet link. There you will find links to the race > > fields for the pre-meet races. There will be two balanced women's pre-meet > > races (purple & silver) and two balanced men's pre-meet races (black & > > gold). All other teams, and all overflow individuals will be put into the > > Furman Invitational races. Each pre-meet race will have 37 teams and NO > > individuals. > > > > COMPLETE Collegiate Fields (Men): Stanford, Washington, Georgia Tech, > > Alabama, Virginia, Washington State, Columbia, Ball State, Texas, ETSU, UNC > > Asheville, Oakland (Mich.), Butler, Northern Iowa, Iowa, Youngstown State, > > Brown, Wake Forest, Marquette, Colorado State, Marshall, Air Force, > > Brevard, Central Michigan, Dartmouth, Wofford, Cornell, Texas Tech, Oregon, > > North Carolina, Kentucky, North Greenville, Samford, Michigan State, > > LaSalle, Guelph, Missouri, Utah, Birmingham Southern, N.C. State, Furman, > > Villanova, Bucknell, Indiana, Life, Bethune Cookman, Colorado, Arizona > > State, BYU, Indiana, Montreat, Elon, Princeton, College of Charleston, > > Belmont, Appalachian State, Western Carolina, Western Kentucky, Radford, > > Queens, Duke, Arizona, Northern Arizona, Cincinnati, Nofolk State, Eastern > > Michigan, New Mexico, Georgia, Florida, Weber State, Notre Dame, Winthrop, > > Davidson, Mercer, Lenoir Rhyne, Miami (Ohio), Clemson, Tennessee, Syracuse, > > Kent State, Toledo, Georgetown, Florida State, St. Francis (Pa), UNC > > Charlotte, Emory, Coastal Carolina, Liberty, Savannah State, Richmond, > > Eastern Illinois, Loyola (Chicago), Tennessee Tech, Ohio State, Creighton, > > The Citadel, UC-Santa Barbara, UCLA, Minnesota, South Florida, Charleston > > Southern, Baylor, Virginia Tech > > > > COMPLETE Collegiate Field (Women): Missouri, Birmingham Southern, N.C. > > State, Mississippi State, Furman, BYU, Villanova, Bucknell, IUPUI, Life, > > Tennessee, Bethune-Cookman, Colorado, Arizona State, College of Charleston, > > Appalachian State, Western Carolina, Minnesota, Western Kentucky, Queens, > > Duke, Arizona, Northern Arizona, Elon, Princeton, New Mexico, Georgia, > > Weber State, Notre Dame, Alabama, Winthrop, Mercer, Pittsburg, Boston > > College, Lenoir-Rhyne, Yale, Stanford, Mi
Re: t-and-f: Coach's comments on Pre-Nats
Well said, one important thing to remember, while its great to just qualify for NCAA's, the point is to crown an NCAA Champion...on that note, Arkansas has never gone to the Pre-NCAA Meet. Arkansas has won 11 titles and 3 straight...even though they're only #3 right now?!?!?!? Whenever an issue like this comes up and people don't know what to do, why not call up Fayetteville, Arkansas and ask for some input because whatever they do down there works just fine. So, am I saying that instead of Pre-Nats everybody should just run against Abilene Christian, Blinn, Dodge City, and so on...? Grote adiRP/MMRD - Original Message - From: ROBERT J HOWELL <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2001 5:59 PM Subject: t-and-f: Coach's comments on Pre-Nats > > This is going to be great for discussion. Coaches have differing views on > what to do about the state of Division I cross country. > > First, Coach Braman from FSU says that some runners might have benefited > from being in the first race because the pace was slower. While I didn't > see the race, I did get a first-hand account who told me in no uncertain > terms that the first race was not nearly as conducive to fast times as the > second. The first race was hotter, and much more packed in. A slow pace > is relaxing when you are in a 5k on the track, you have a big kick, and > you are sitting off the right shoulder of the leader. Running in the > middle of a pack of people, and not being able to get around is not going > to work to anyone's benefit. It's going to wear people out with anxiety > and the extra effort needed to pass other runners. > > I think that this alone is grounds for not ever combining the results of > the two races for qualifying purposes. Even gh would agree. He's written > in the past about wind making differences in 100m heats run only minutes > apart in who advances on time. > > The Nebraska coach made mention of the shortcomings of the course(too > many tight turns and the cart path). I mentioned this a couple of days > before the race, but have since been reminded about what cross country is > about. If the conditions aren't ideal then tough it up. If it's too > crowded in the pack, go run in the lead; there's no crowd in front of the > pack. The course isn't perfect, but everyone runs it, and it isn't going > to determine who wins. It will be ok with 31 teams. > > But pretty much everyone is in agreement that if these last three years > are indicative of what Pre-Nats are going to be like, then we should > somehow change the system. But these same coaches will show up next year > if the format isn't changed. So what are the options? > > 1. Eliminate qualifying at Pre-NCAAs. With this move alone, we can bring > teams back to the more traditional big meets such as Paul Short, Michigan > Interregional, Murray Keating, Griak, The Cowboy Jamboree, Spiked Shoe, > Big Cross, New England's, Notre Dame Invite, Stanford Invite, and the > Rocky Mountain Shootout. But the good old days weren't always so > good. Coaches and ADs don't have the money to send teams to all of these > meets. There is a downside to eliminating Pre-NCAAs. > > 2. Give each District 3 qualifiers. This would take care of 27 teams, > and leave 4 at large berths. There would still be teams that would come > to Pre-NCAAs for these berths, but it would inject some reality into the > equation for some of the teams. The downside to this, is the Mid-Atlantic > division. The third best team in this district is...? I don't think this > makes Coach Harwick's idea a bad one, but just know that some very > good team in the West, the Mountain, or in the Great Lakes region is going > to get left out on a regular basis. > > 3. Keep the current system. The meet is too large. 74 teams in one race > would have been way too many. They did well to split it. But that said, > the format and number of teams in that meet have no bearing on who > finishes in the top 10 at NCAAs. And wasn't that the point of the > original meet, to allow the good teams to run on the course. So Colorado > and Stanford didn't run against each other. Who cares? They'll do so in > November. And even better, Arkansas and Wisconsin will be there too. And > neither one of those teams even went to Pre-Nats, but they'll both get > into NCAAs. And I suppose they'll run the course on the Saturday or > Sunday before the meet. There's a novel idea. I wonder if John McDonnel > tosses and turns at night wondering if he should go to Pre-NCAAs? He > might want to solidify his at-large position. Seriously though, he > might have nightmares that one of his runners might be leading > the race and go the wrong way. That could be a real concern for him. > For me, that's one of the coolest things about NCAAs every year. We can > wonder who Arkansas is going to bring to the meet. Speaking of which, who > is Arkansas going to
Re: t-and-f: Famous people who have run track?
I'll chip in here on Ron Dayne...as a Giants fan and Jersey resident, I wish he would've stuck with the discus at this point. The guy above him in the depth chart, Tiki Barber (he's famous, he was in one of those GQ or People Sexiest Men alive things...not that I pay attention to that stuff) was also a hurdler in HS and maybe even at UVa? As was twin brother Ronde. They also went to HS in Jersey. Grote adiRP/MMRD - Original Message - From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 10:59 AM Subject: Re: t-and-f: Famous people who have run track? > Of course there was Wilt Chamberlain, a notable track athlete at Overbrook > High School in Philadelphia. Ron Dayne is NJ high school discus > record-holder. The infamous OJ Simpson was part of a world record 4 x > 110-yard relay team. Maybe the coach shouldn't mentuion that to his kids. > > steve lurie >
Re: t-and-f: RK's Season
I dunno...long time no post. Have not even looked at these ratings or read everybody's rants about them, but regarding the RK fella, one big difference with him and Zatopek is that Zatopek RAN. Running is running, racewalking is a bit contrived at the very least. So, I say do the apples to apples thing, in which case there are lots of 18-19 minute 5k folks (men and women) who are not world ranked, so the RK fella should be thankful. Grote adiRP - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2001 3:15 AM Subject: t-and-f: RK's Season Netters below is RK's season record I think I had seen two other races not listed here but what you have is 11 wins 12 losses over 5, 10, 20 and 50k. his only loss was to two russians at 10k one of whom was last years world champ the other was in the top 5 at the games. It is especially note worthy that RK was considered a 50k specialist before this year. In any case it's a great year for any athlete. Remember too that no one ever thought anyone would win the 20&50 in one Olympics. On like MJ's double which required considerable changes to the schedule RK did his on the normal schedule. It was akin to Zatopek's feet. Feb 13 POL Ch. Spala 5000m 1st 19:00.53Feb 19 FRA Ch. Liévin 5000m 1st 18:53.71Mar 5 Ponte de Sôr 50km 1st 3:41:50May 7 Villeneuve d'Ascq 5000m 1st 19:16.30Jun 3 Kraków 10km 3rd 38:48(1 Ilya Markov 38:42, 2 Vladimir Andreyev 38:47)Jun 10 Spala 5000m 1st 18:48.92Jul 17 Eur Cup Eisenhüttenstadt 20km 1st 18:18.29Jun 24 Warsaw 5000m 1st 19:02.88Jul 9 Hildesheim 20km 1st 1:18:22Aug 5 POL Ch Kraków 20km 1st 1:20:52Sep 22 OG Sydney 20km 1st 1:18:59Sep 29 OGSydney 50km 1st 3:42:22
t-and-f: Racewalking MumboJumbo
Right. Because that would be about running...moving as fast as possible over a given distance. The spikes and blocks would help reach that goal. I wouldn't know too much, as I've never run out of blocks, and all of my PR's from 3000m-1m are in road racing flats. However, the idea in any running event is to move as fast as possible. Running is the fastest way for humans to move, since we cannot fly. If we could, different story. I don't run track any more, I'm too slow. However, the point of going in circles is also to move the fastest, that is the track is the most even, best surface, etc. In road races, the same concept applies, cover the distance as fast as possible, at least that is my idea. Some may do it for the cash. Racewalking is like racing airplanes on the ground by taxiing them on a runway. Or like auto racing while never shifting out of 2nd gear. Or like having sex with your clothes. Or like playing basketball with a football. All these things are silly, and not the best means to achieving the goal of the pursuit or event. Grote adiRP - Original Message - From: Mike Casey To: Ryan Grote Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2001 10:43 PM Subject: RE: t-and-f: RK's Season Hi Ryan, You wrote:: "racewalking is a bit contrived at the very least" and running in circles, or crouching down and placing your feet in blocks, and wearing shoes with spikes in them isn't.? Mike -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Ryan GroteSent: 17 January 2001 17:48To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: t-and-f: RK's Season I dunno...long time no post. Have not even looked at these ratings or read everybody's rants about them, but regarding the RK fella, one big difference with him and Zatopek is that Zatopek RAN. Running is running, racewalking is a bit contrived at the very least. So, I say do the apples to apples thing, in which case there are lots of 18-19 minute 5k folks (men and women) who are not world ranked, so the RK fella should be thankful. Grote adiRP - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2001 3:15 AM Subject: t-and-f: RK's Season Netters below is RK's season record I think I had seen two other races not listed here but what you have is 11 wins 12 losses over 5, 10, 20 and 50k. his only loss was to two russians at 10k one of whom was last years world champ the other was in the top 5 at the games. It is especially note worthy that RK was considered a 50k specialist before this year. In any case it's a great year for any athlete. Remember too that no one ever thought anyone would win the 20&50 in one Olympics. On like MJ's double which required considerable changes to the schedule RK did his on the normal schedule. It was akin to Zatopek's feet. Feb 13 POL Ch. Spala 5000m 1st 19:00.53Feb 19 FRA Ch. Liévin 5000m 1st 18:53.71Mar 5 Ponte de Sôr 50km 1st 3:41:50May 7 Villeneuve d'Ascq 5000m 1st 19:16.30Jun 3 Kraków 10km 3rd 38:48(1 Ilya Markov 38:42, 2 Vladimir Andreyev 38:47)Jun 10 Spala 5000m 1st 18:48.92Jul 17 Eur Cup Eisenhüttenstadt 20km 1st 18:18.29Jun 24 Warsaw 5000m 1st 19:02.88Jul 9 Hildesheim 20km 1st 1:18:22Aug 5 POL Ch Kraków 20km 1st 1:20:52Sep 22 OG Sydney 20km 1st 1:18:59Sep 29 OGSydney 50km 1st 3:42:22
t-and-f: Not Kidding, and more contrived event ideas...
Actually I wasn't kidding. I think that they should have an event to correspond with racewalking called the SissyPut. That is, shot put for weaklings under 150pounds, but taller than 5'10" (not sure on the metric coversions?). I'd like to try that. However, instead of a regular shot put, they should use a softball painted pink. I'll bet that I could do pretty well... Grote adiRP - Original Message - From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2001 7:35 AM Subject: Re: t-and-f: RK's Season > Netters > > Ryan, normally witty, and informed came up with this one liner: > > >So, I say do the apples to apples thing, in which case there are > >lots of 18-19 minute 5k folks (men and women) > > who are not world ranked, so the RK fella should be thankful. > > Ryan, by the light, I hope you are joking because this has to be the > second most stupid thing I have ever seen written about the walks. > Right behind that horse's but's, P.N. from New Zealand who thought it > would be ok to try to relegate what he doesn't like to an Island. > > On the upside I think Conway's essay on the founding fathers of the > rankings was the best so far in the discussion. I know GH said he wasn't > going to write any more about this but I would like to see a response to > that because it seems that Conway has crystallized the point of the > discussion at the same time pinning down the defenders of the rankings. > The horse isn't dead yet I'd like to see an expansion from what Conway > wrote. >
Re: t-and-f: Fastest lead off leg
How about fastest NCAA 4x4 anchor? Is it Quincy Watts in '92? I dunno. How about Angelo Taylor? Or how about fastest collegiate anchor period? Nehemiah at Penn? You know what is good about the NCAA amidst all their corruption and rules breaking and hypocrisy and other BS...they don't have racewalking, at least not in DI. For whoever it was that was starting to talk about hoops and football being contrived, don't go there whether you like the games or not, as those are the games that make money and allow for other sports to exist at many levels (not all levels, but many). Grote adiRP - Original Message - From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2001 3:03 PM Subject: Re: t-and-f: Fastest lead off leg > In a message dated Thu, 18 Jan 2001 1:29:42 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > > << I was wondering if someone could pass along to me the two fastest lead off > legs in 4x400m relay history. The first two people that came to mind were > Danny Everett and Jerome Young. I was not certain but 44.2 and 44.4 were the > times that stick in my head. I would like to know for sure. >> > > Everett ran 44-flat to lead off in Seoul; that's No. 1. > > Second best would be Young's 44.3 at the Goodwill Games in '98. > > gh > > ps--if you'd like some trivia, fastest leadoff leg in an NCAA Champs 4x4 is 45-flat by Steve Lewis in '88. > > pps--while we're talking UCLA 4x4 guys, Darrell's uncle, John Smith, is the only guy ever to win 4 NCAA titles in the 4x4. INterestingly enough, he ran leadoff as a frosh (46.7), second leg as a soph (45.3), third leg as a junior (44.8) and anchor as a senior (44.7), getting faster every year. How perfect is that?!!! > > gh >
t-and-f: Where did I say HATE?
Please cite the spot where I say that I "HATE" the walks or anything, or that I say racewalking is not "MANLY". I don't think it makes a heck of a lot of sense as a sport. It is a fine excercise. I commend anybody who finds anything that inspires passion and devotion in themselves, and pursues that thing with dedication and vigor. Racewalking may be require a whole bunch of manliness, I dunno...I can't imagine the flack racewalker's get for heel-toeing it around on the roads. I didn't see anybody call me names, but go ahead if you must. Again, I didn't say that I HATE ANYTHING, not even racewalking. I don't even hate Stanford, I am jealous that they became great during my eligibility, and I love it for them to lose. I am not jealous of racewalking. I don't hate the Red Sox, why would I as a Yankees fan? I am pretty close to hating some thing, such as figure skating, Ally McBeal, all those Boy Bands, Britney Spears and so on. Most of those things, however, are not important enough to inspire such a passion as hate. Grote adiRP - Original Message - From: Michael J. Roth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Track Listserve <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2001 7:58 PM Subject: t-and-f: re: Racewalking MumboJumbo > gh and others, > > To come to Mike Rohl's defense, he was not calling Grote any of those > things. What he said was that the close-minded, knee jerk reactions > that cause Grote to hate the walks is the same mental makeup that leads > to those other types of people, just in a more extreme way. Grote's > comments, and those of others, that denigrate the walks are based upon > pure ignorance and childish ideals of what is "manly" in T&F. If it > looks funny then they can't be athletes, and the event & its > practitioners have no place in the sport. > > You and others have complained that the walk is not accepted because no > one gets to see it in meets in the US. Gee, I wonder who is responsible > for that? The good-old-boy network of coaches that have continually > excluded it from the NCAA and HS Federations for way too long. Maybe if > they stood up, more blood would flow to the brains they sit on. This > has gone on too long and the stupidity of the whole exclusion and > disrespect of the walks is a joke, as are those who continue to act in > this fashion. > > MJR > >
Re: t-and-f: pray for the Ravens
I disagree on many levels: -First, the Giants play and practice in Jersey and most of the players live in Jersey. -Unlike most cities in the US, New York is a REAL big city, big enough that successes/failures in sports are not the be all, end all of things. Life will go on, with or without parades. -Millrose already ceases to exist in the eyes of most New Yorkers. Its great and all that 10,000 plus people "fill" the Garden, however there are 20+million people in this area. -Never forget that sports like football make the money for TV and sponsors, particularly the Super Bowl, which this year may be one of the WORST rated ever, but still is projected for a 41.0 share. None of this really has anything to do with the fact that I am a Giants fan... Grote adiRP/MMRD - Original Message - From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, January 19, 2001 11:57 AM Subject: t-and-f: pray for the Ravens > .. cuz if the NY Giants win the Super Bowl, Millrose (just 5 days after the Game) will cease to exist in the eyes of the all-powerful New York media. There are a half-dozen Olympic gold medalists in town? Who cares, we need to write the definitive biography of Jason Sehorn. > > Unfortunately, even if the Giants lose, the deconstruction of that side of things is going to go on for weeks. > > sigh. > > gh >
Re: t-and-f: NYC Marathon 2001 USA Championship
Hallelujah! Finally. USATF/LDR/whatever, is now playing in the Big Leagues! Grote adiRP/MMRD - Original Message - From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 2:52 PM Subject: t-and-f: NYC Marathon 2001 USA Championship > >From the Running USA wire: > > FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE > > The 2001 New York City Marathon® Will Host the USA Marathon Championships > > NEW YORK - (January 22, 2001) - The 2001 New York City Marathon will > serve as the 2001 USA Men's and Women's National Marathon Championships it > was announced today by Allan Steinfeld, President and CEO of the New York > Road Runners Club (NYRRC) and Marathon Race Director. > > Steinfeld made his historic announcement at the weekly NY Track Writers > luncheon where veteran Olympian Anne Marie Lauck joined him. Men's defending > champion Rod DeHaven, who represented the United States in last year's > Olympic Marathon in Sydney, addressed the media on a teleconference call, as > did Craig Masback, CEO of USA Track & Field (USATF), the sport's national > governing body, and USATF President Bill Roe. > > "This is indeed an important date for both the NYC Marathon and for the > sport in this country," said Steinfeld. "By hosting the USA National Marathon > Championships we will be providing this country's top men and women > marathoners the opportunity to race and test themselves against the world's > best and to enjoy unprecedented media and fan exposure by competing in the > world's most celebrated road race. > > "At the same time we are adding an exciting new element to the race that > will generate additional interest to the millions of fans who already line > the race course and to those who watch the live TV broadcast," said > Steinfeld. > > The USA National Marathon Championships will be held as a race within a > race at the 2001 NYC Marathon on Sunday, November 4. > > The USA National Marathon Championships will be a major part of the > pre-race promotional campaign as well as the live TV broadcast on > WNBC-Channel 4. The NYRRC is putting up more than $100,000 in prize money and > other substantial race incentive bonuses exclusively for the USA > Championships. First place prize money for both the men's and women's U.S. > champion is $15,000. As part of the lucrative race incentive bonus package > being offered to the American runners, a sub 2:12 (men) and sub 2:31 (women) > time will pay out a $15,000 bonus. > > American runners will also be eligible to compete for prize money from > the general marathon prize money pool of more than $310,000 depending on > their overall place and time in the race. > > "We applaud the NYC Marathon for doing something very positive and > exciting for long distance running in this country by taking this bold step > forward in enhancing their own race," said Masback. > > In addition, the 2001 NYC Marathon will act as an exclusive one-day > window for runners to achieve the qualifying standards to race in the 2004 > U.S. Olympic Marathon Trials. The qualifying period will close after the 2001 > NYC Marathon and not reopen until January 1, 2002. > > A combined field of more than 50 of America's top men and women > marathoners is expected at the starting line. > > "This is an incredible chance for us to run against the world's best," > said DeHaven, who ran a 2:15:30 winning time at the U.S. Olympic Marathon > Trials in Pittsburgh last May. "At the same time we will be bringing new > attention to the sport in general and to this country's top runners by being > here in the media capital of the world." > > The NYC Marathon has hosted the USA Women's National Championships twice > before in 1975 (Kim Merritt) and 1978 (Marty Cooksey). The NYC Marathon has > never hosted the Men's National Championships. This will be the 77th Men's > National Championships race and the 28th Women's National Championships race. > > "This should be a race that comes right down to the Central Park finish > line," said Lauck, whose best finish in the NYC Marathon was third in 1994. > > The 32nd running of the New York City Marathon will be on Sunday, Nov. 4 > and once again a starting field of 30,000 is expected. The New York City > Marathon is a New York Road Runners Club event. > > # # # > > Ryan Lamppa, Running USA Media Coordinator > USATF Road Running Information Center >
Re: t-and-f: Death of a Sportsman
Sad day indeed. Let me second Mr. Grant's words and add a few of my own. The year that Marquette won the NCAA Basketball Championship was 1977, at the Omni in Atlanta. No, I'm not looking this up, its in my messed up little head. This is my very first sports memory of any kind, I was a few weeks short of being 3 years old. My father is a Marquette alum, former player and diehard Warriors fan (now Golden Eagles?). Anyway, upon the sound of the final buzzer, my Dad was jumping in cheering so much that he head his head on the ceiling and KO'd himself for a few minutes. The star at UNC that year was Phil Ford, point guard and longtime Dean Smith assistant coach. Walter Davis was there, as well. The tourney M.O.P. (Most Outstanding Player) was Marquette's Butch Lee, who got off to a good start as a rookie with the Cleveland Cavaliers, but later suffered a knee injury that today would probably be manageable, but in 1978 left a player never the same. Believe that the semi-finalists that year were UNLV and UNC-Charlotte, a cinderella led by Cedric "Cornbread" Maxwell. That was Marquette's last trip to the Final Four, and Al McGuire's last game. He was the best color man on the tube, in my opinion. I met him after a game in 1983, they lost to DePaul, I got his autograph and a photo with their star at the time, Doc Rivers, believe Rick Majerus was the coach then. Grote adiRP/MMRD - Original Message - From: Ed Grant To: track net Sent: Friday, January 26, 2001 5:35 PM Subject: t-and-f: Death of a Sportsman Netters: I was saeened a few minutes ago to head of the death of Al McGuire, who, while best known for his basketball exploits as player, coach and commentator, had a onetime connectionm with our sport, of which more later. I will always remember McGuire for two incidents that occurred during Marquette's upset win over North Carolina at the NCAA chamapionships (1976, I believe). The firest occurred when the issue was very much in doubnt., The star of North Carolina (can't recall the name, but it wasn't you know who---he came along a few years later)--drove in for a shot and went tumbling into the stands. Marquette got the ball and was hurrying it down the coyurt for an apparent five on four possession when McGuire signalled from the bench to slow the play down. The NorthCarolina ace extricated himself from the fans, hurried back up the court and play continued, five on five. The second was at the game's end. With seconds to go and vbictory assured this tough (and he was tough) guy from Brooklyn broke down in tears, burying his head in his hands. later he said that all he could think of was "all those CYO games, all those tiny gyms back in Brooklyn." This was a man who n=[knew where he came from and loved every minute of it. A lighter story or two from his broadcasting days. Once, he was going a game at Georgetown (against Missouri, I think). For some reason, this Sunday TV special was being played at the Hoyas' Mc Donogh gym rather than the larger arena (pre-Landover) where it would normally have been scheduled. McGuire commented "This is like playing Georgetown in a confessional box." Again during the early days of the 1980 presidential campaign, he was doing a game, perhaps back at marquette, and there was a sign in the stands "McGuire for Presiodent." His rejoinder was (remember this was when Jimmy Carter was President with a brother who got a lot of ink) "I've got abrother who would make Billy Carter look lile a monk." Finally, the track connection. It was not well known that in his HS days, Al had been a successfull cross-country runner. He took advanatage of that to earn big bucks for a Milwaukee charity. There was a road race and McGuire got a lot of well-hipped Milwaukee business men to put up money for each second (or minute) he could run the course under a certain time. He evidently had kept in good shape, but be beat the time with plenty to spare. A real sportsman and he will be missed. Ed Grant PS: Of course, everyone who answered my earlier trvia question---ad I am flattered at the number of responses---was absolutely correct. It could have been no one but Skeets.
Re: t-and-f: suddenly it's a track meet
And of course a former state record holding discus thrower was "playing" for the Giants...Ron Dayne. Since he got ZERO carries yesterday, maybe they should have let him try to throw something, since Kerry Collins couldn't, and at least get some use out of Mr. Heisman. Grote adiRP/MMRD - Original Message - From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, January 29, 2001 9:41 AM Subject: Re: t-and-f: suddenly it's a track meet > another former trackster in the game, Quadry Ismail, could have been world > class in either the HH, bit IMHO would have been even better at the 400IH. He > was a great hurdler on our team at Syracuse(2-3x AA), but never "really" > trained full time for track. He could also split 46 on the 4 x 400, and he > never trained for anything higher than the 110's, if he ever got his body in > track shape... but as at all Big d1 schools football rules, and he > always had commitments that took him away from track for periods of time... > > nick > >
Re: t-and-f: JERMAINE LEWIS AND RON DAYNE
They both had no rushes for no yards in the Super Bowl? Dayne has a Heisman, but Jermaine has a Super Bowl win and a TD to remember the day by? At least Ron doesn't have to live in Maryland. Grote adiRP/MMRD - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2001 11:51 AM Subject: t-and-f: JERMAINE LEWIS AND RON DAYNE What do Jermaine Lewis of the Baltimore Ravens and Ron Dayne of the New York Giants have in common? Keith Conning
Re: t-and-f: Re: adidas Oregon Track Classic Earns GP Status
Actually, Raleigh is still on the map, its just easy of Cary, not far from Durham or Chapel Hill. I'll bet that 99+% of the inhabitants are totally unimpressed with the disappearance of the meet, and would not trade the meet for the televised hoops victory last night (NC State over #6 UVa). Hoops going a game over .500 in hopes of rallying for the NIT beats out a world class track meet anyday. Grote adiRP/MMRD - Original Message - From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 3:36 PM Subject: t-and-f: Re: adidas Oregon Track Classic Earns GP Status > Congrats to Portland meet (at a new site I see) for upgrade from International Permit Meet to GP II. > > It has gone generally unremarked, but fans should also note that Stanford's meet (June 9) has been elevated all the way to GP I status, replacing Raleigh (and that Raleigh has apparently fallen off the map). > > gh >
Re: t-and-f: bballs, sneakers, and $
Real shoes and the insinuation of Nike being a company who makes them? I know you did not type the word Nike, but you did say "Bowerman Series". All that I have to say is, "Boing." OK, thats not the Bowerman series, but close enough. I suspect that someday hoop shoes will come back to fashion promise, although it may take awhile, as comfort has become an issue, as well. Eventually the running and all-terrain shoe craze will fade a bit. I am still stunned that New Balance shoes are cool with the kiddies and have been for a while. When I was a youngster, teenager in the mid-late 80's, I saved up my paper route money and allowance to buy my shoes, and they were always hoop shoes, not just because I played basketball, I had seperate ones for that. But my everyday walking around, going to school shoes were ALWAYS basketball shoes, usually high tops, until I was in late high school, and got more fashion/dress conscious. Who cares? Well, the point is that everybody was wearing hoop shoes, I always paid more to get the newest, most expensive Air Jordans or Air Flight's or whatever, thats why I got a paper route. I never dreamt of wearing running shoes. Those were for the geeks, no offense. I would've been afraid of getting my ass kicked wearing running shoes, even expensive ones, much less something like New Balance. I even remember being 16, when I was actually becoming more of a runner than anything else, coming to run with a pretty serious running crowd at Bernards HS at 6 PM each summer night. I'd get out of the car, running shoes in hand, hoop shoes on foot. After running, the switch was made again. At some point, I figure, hoop shoes will return to prominence because those are what are on the feet of the guys making the big bucks, guys on the TV. Then again, what if the tables totally turned? What if...because the running shoe market is hotter, that running is what took over the TV time...running shoe commercials replacing hoops stuff. Instead of the NBA All-Star game or college hoops, indoor track in the prime TV slot. Big contracts to all sorts of runnersthen again, keep your day job. Grote adiRP/MMRD - Original Message - From: The Barretts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, February 12, 2001 1:17 PM Subject: t-and-f: bballs, sneakers, and $ > This has been cussed and discussed in the past, so an update > is in order. Last night (or was it Saturday?) ABC News did > a piece on basketball sneaker contracts. Sales are _way_ down > ($3Billion to $1.9B), with the result being only the top few players > get $. Also said running shoes sales now top BBall shoes, for the > first time since the '80's. Sure, plenty of "fashion" shoes, but > whatever keeps the running shoes companies in business is fine > with me - as long as they keep putting out "real" shoes, e.g. > the Bowerman series. > > It's a tough world out there - better eat your Wheaties if > you expect to be able to keep complaining about lack of > $ for your t-and-f addictions. > > Richard > > >
Re: t-and-f: here's a wild thought...
Or maybe he should just finish high school first and show how good he is over 4/5 years at Colorado and then beyond? For what its worth (really nothing) I believe that he is pretty freaking good, better than any HS kid I've ever seen come along. Grote adiRP/MMRD - Original Message - From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2001 7:43 PM Subject: t-and-f: here's a wild thought... > Instead of romping in the Junior XC race, as everybody expects he will, Dathan Ritzenhein should get a measure of just how good he is by running one of the Senior races this weekend. > > SHould he run the 4K or the 12K? > > gh >
Re: t-and-f: RE: Riley and Ritz
Jeezuz. Can't people just take everybody for what they are? I said the kid was the best I'd seen come along...I was born in 1974. That is great. There is a defiinite raising of the bar among HS and collegiate and even post-collegiate distance runners in the US. Times are dropping again. No, there are no WR's or gold medals yet. Look at HS lists from early 90's as compared with right now. Look at the Kinney Champs and their struggles in the late 80's and early 90's vs. some of the recent guys. Ritzenhein is a huge talent. Leave it at that and see what happens. Don't compare him to Lindgren. If you want to...fine...I say that he could kick Lindgren's ass right now, then again so could I. While some of you are at it, please point out then that even though Webb ran 3:59, he's nowhere near as good as Jim Ryun. Thats obvious. But better point it out and keeping blabbing about it. Liquori's HS was in Newark...you think overcoming Spokane is tough? Grote adiRP/MMRD - Original Message - From: Richard McCann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: Garry Hill <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; e. garry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Jack Pfeifer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Mike Hubbard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2001 1:27 PM Subject: t-and-f: RE: Riley and Ritz > At 04:45 PM 2/14/2001 -0800, t-and-f-digest wrote.. > >Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 19:06:12 EST > >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >Subject: RE: t-and-f: here's a wild thought... > > > >In a message dated Wed, 14 Feb 2001 5:28:55 PM Eastern Standard Time, > >"Mcewen, Brian T" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > ><< When you consider performance in both track and XC in HS only, AND > >performance over four years... I think only Virgin and Lindgren can > >legitimately be called "better" than Ritz.>> > > > >Until Ritzenhein sets a national record (outdoors) and earns a spot in the > >U.S. Rankings (i.e., the "open" rankings) he rates not only behind Virgin > >and Lindgren, but also two others who come instantly to mind, Pre and Rick > >Riley. > > > >Riley was my best friend in college, so I'm biased, but I think he tends > >to get a bit overlooked since his reign as HS Recordholder in the 2M > >lasted only 3 years before Pre came along. > > > >But it must be noted that in addition to his HSR of 8:48.4, Riley ran a > >4:04.7 mile, 14:00.2 in the 5000 (only 8 open athletes ran faster) and > >29:11.4 for 6M (finishing 5th in the Nationals). > > Riley had the added burden of also coming from Spokane two years after > Lindgren, who had run faster over 2 miles, but who's mark was unrecognized > for record purposes. He wasn't the best runner in his own city during his > era, despite probably being the third best in the US, behind Lindgren and Ryun. > > Also, I believe the Lindgren went through in 8:44 in his 13:44 record > run. I'll have to check my "Jack's Track Book for 1976" with the > Washington state records to confirm that. Ritz would have to have a > similar confidence level to go after that mark. > > > Richard McCann > >
Re: t-and-f: Short/Long course cross country
Wait just a cottonpickin' minute there... In all seriousness, if you want any of your argument to be respected, don't forget to mention getting rid of the walks. It would be neat to see marathoners and milers racing, but it doesn't really happen. Imagine Khannouchi and Gabe tangling at the US X-C Champs. One guy from another country and one guy from another planet. Great stuff. Grote adiRP/MMRD - Original Message - From: John Lunn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: lehane <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 2:40 PM Subject: Re: t-and-f: Short/Long course cross country > Bob, > COOL! > While you are down sizing cross country, why not do the same to track. > Only 1 weight event. Heck they all spin now, so as long as they spin and have a weight they must be the same. Let's not water down the events. > Same with the horizontal jumps. If you can jump once,you can jump 3 times. I say compromise -have the duo jump or call it the hop-step. Forget the long jump and the triple jump. > Running? Forget the 100 and the 400. I'm tired of the talent being stretched to cover these events. The 200 says it all. > No one knows what to make of the 800- throw it out. The 5000 and the 10,000 are the same people-chuck 'em. If they can't run the mile, they shouldn't be on the track. > There is more to cross country than a long race on bumpy ground! > John > > lehane wrote: > > > I'm in full agreement. Cross country - one race, one champion. Beautiful simplicity. > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > > > ABOLISH THE 4K CROSS COUNTRY!!! > > > > >
t-and-f: X-C Start Lists?
Anywhere to find entry lists for Vancouver, WA? Just read in McPaper, I mean USA Today that Regina Jacobs is running the 4k. That makes that race interesting. The men's 12k will be pretty loaded, sort of a meeting of generations, sans Goucher...Hacker, Coogan, Kennedy, Williams, Culpepper, Julian, Rodgers, Frick and Frack, and so on. As for the junior dudes, if Ritzenhein is indeed running, do not just hand him the race. Is not Franklyn Sanchez still a junior? He is redshirting indoors and ran 8:05 or so if I recall correctly. Not a slouch. For what its worth, Jersey guy Joe McVeigh continually tells me that he is a great bet for last place, but I bet that he beats somebody. Grote adiRP/MMRD
Re: t-and-f: Badgers baby!
While I might not totally agree, I like this thread. Wisco will definitely be in the title hunt, probable trophy team. Let the Grote Poll contemplation begin! Its disrespectful to favor anybody other than Arkansas anymore, however. Its been 3 straight again for them, each year they beat a more highly touted Stanford or Colorado team. It will be war with Colorado, Arkansas, Stanford, Wisconsin, and watch out for 'Nova. Grote adiRP/MMRD - Original Message - From: Joe Rubio <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, February 19, 2001 6:59 PM Subject: t-and-f: Badgers baby! > First volley thrown. The Wisconsin men will come away with the DI XC > title next fall... > > Joe >
Re: t-and-f: Badgers baby!
What about the Bros. Bickford? Both World Ranked at 10k, with Bruce being #1 in around 1986, correct? Or maybe the Bros. Mastalir as juniors? Grote adiRP/MMRD - Original Message - From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2001 7:46 AM Subject: Re: t-and-f: Badgers baby! > > > > Brian McGuire wrote: > > >A good day for EX-Badger Matt Downin, yesterday. BOTH Downin brothers make > >the U.S. squad. Question for the trivia-inclined. Is this the first time > >that two brothers have been on the same senior U.S. cross team? (I realize > >the 4k has opened more opportunities) > > I don't think that the Reina's accomplished that - Ruben went as a junior > in 1986, Randy made the senior > team in 1987, and I know Ruben was on the senior team in 1995 - but I don't > think that there was a year where they both qualified. > > Of course, Roland never qualified - but that's another story... > > Phil > > > > >
Re: t-and-f: Sorry about that post on Ritzenheim
Yeah, really...especially since he lost, we'd better write that kid off right here and right now. Unless you want to talk about the difference in a first year college kid vs. a still in HS kid...albeit ONLY a first year college kid who was a mere 8:53 guy in HS. I stick by my statement on Ritzenhein, he's the best HS distance that I have seen come along, I was born in 1974. Anybody who's disappointed in his x-c junior results, go ahead and look up the results of another CU bound HS senior from 1994, the race was in Memphis. Grote adiRP/MMRD - Original Message - From: Ed & Dana Parrot <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: 't-and-f@darkwing. uoregon. edu' (E-mail) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2001 4:37 PM Subject: t-and-f: Sorry about that post on Ritzenheim > Netters - > > Apparently I just posted an email on Ritzenheim and the 5K - I sent this > a week ago and I guess my email provider just sent it on now - sorry for the > post on the dead topic! > > - Ed Parrot > >
t-and-f: X-C Nats Team Scores?
Do they still keep "team" scores at US Winter Nationals? If so, I was wondering in particular about the mens 12k... -Nike goes 1-3-5-7-12 by my count -adidas 2068 goes 2-9-13-30-39 by my count, and what is 2068, by the way? -Hanson's impressively goes 11-16-17-18-21 -Farm Team goes 4-31-32-34-35 -New Balance goes 8-10-14-20-?no 5th man? -Top Unattached guys go 6-22-23-27-29 Thus, by my math, if you count the Nike or adidas gatherings as a team, the standings look like: 1. Nike-- 28 2. Hanson's-- 83 3. adidas 2068-- 93 4. Farm Team-- 136 OR, if Matt Downin, Dan Nelson, Weldon Johnson, Mike Mykytok, and Ian Solof would have called themselves a team (makes as much sense as the Nike and adidas team being called a team) they would have been 4th with 107. So, I still say it would be a lot more fun if teams were organized and scored as clubs based upon where they live/train instead of who gives them shoes and perhaps some contract money. Hanson's and The Farm Team do that, as do some other clubs in the meet like Wisconsin Runner, Reebok Boston, BAA, Club Northwest, Hoys, and so on. If guys are good enough to get shoe contracts, great, let them wear their shoe company garb, but score them with a local club. What would hurt Nike exposure wise if Meb was counted for SoCal TC or something? Or Culpepper for Boulder Harriers or something? No biggy, I suppose, life goes on and the sport wallows in anonymity either way. Grote adiRP/MMRD
Re: t-and-f: SACTO TRIALS: Marathon Selection
How about choosing the marathon team from a race the previous fall What would be so bad about allowing 9+ months from the selection race for recovery and a kickass training cycle? Why not allow the 3 (hopefully) men and women to use the money stipend from the trials? That amount of time would allow the marathoners to actually train to be in top form for Athens, to not worry about money, not have to overrace, and not have to rush things. Plenty of time to recover, deal with injuries, and so on. I don't think it would suck too much, if the selection was made out of the new US Champs race, but if it was made at Cal Int'l that might work well, too, the course is fast. Grote adiRP/MMRD - Original Message - From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, February 23, 2001 12:44 AM Subject: Re: t-and-f: SACTO TRIALS: GOOD & NOT SO GOOD > In a message dated Thu, 22 Feb 2001 8:05:05 PM Eastern Standard Time, "Tom Derderian" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > << What would it take to have the marathons in Sacramento with the track > trials?>> > > A 2am starting time? > > No wait, we're choosing a team to run in Athens in August. Sacto is thereby DQed because the conditions won't be severe enough. Marathon Trials should be in Houston in July. > > gh >
Re: t-and-f:...Meb's Foul Mouth
Yeah, just imagine if he'd gone to school in Jersey, than he would have a full mastery of the American Profanity Lexicon, in addition to his NCAA/US titles and Olympic berth. But he still would've had to run faster than he did to hold state records for 1600/mile and 3200/two mile...in fact he would've had to run faster in order to hold a Bernards High record. Grote adiRP/MMRD - Original Message - From: Kurt Bray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, February 23, 2001 5:48 AM Subject: Re: t-and-f: If you can't stand the heat... > Brian said: > > >As one of the nine fans (your math, not mine) who found the warm Sacramento > >weather a delightful contrast to the frigid Bay Area summers, I scoff at > >such complaints. The weather was one of the best things about the meet. > > As one who spent four summers in the Sacto area, I can tell you that we were > incredibly lucky that the weather was miraculously mild for nearly the > entire trials last summer. It's normally over 100 degrees pretty much every > day. If the weather is more normal in 2004, you won't come away thinking > that the weather was one of the best things about the meet. > > And in a another post Brian also said: > > After the race, Meb, a > native-born Eritrean, was showing his command of the English language. > "F***! F***!" he kept saying > > Meb may be Eritrean-born, but he went to high school right here in San > Diego, where I'm sure he must have learned the full complement slang and > profanity common to American youth everywhere. > > Kurt Bray > _ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > >
Re: t-and-f: Creating Good Distance runners in the US
Whoa there... This may have already been addressed, Samuelson or Benoit is from Maine, New Hampshire would be Jennings. I'm sure GH will jump this one, but Lindgren and Oregon...oooh. Thats like saying that Michael Jordan played at Duke. While Eugene and most of the Northwest are indeed often wet, sloppy, Lindgren went to Wazzu, Pullman, WA, known as The Palouse. At times a locale featuring incomparible weather conditions. Its on the other side of the mountains and desert, basically, from the rest of the state. Nasty, nasty, nasty place. Then again, in my travels I've found that just about everywhere can be the windiest place on the map at times when you really want to get on the track. Grote adiRP/MMRD - Original Message - From: Fred Finke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: T-and-F list (E-mail) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Coach-Net (E-mail) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2001 1:29 PM Subject: t-and-f: Creating Good Distance runners in the US > Hi. Fred Finke here. > I have another theory. The weather is not your barrier, it is you > asset!! Throw in Altitude and I can almoist guarentee you a great XC program > is in the neighborhood. I think the reason is that people that live in the > soft climates are not grown "tough". Think about it. The great runners > (yes I know there are some exceptions, but the number is REAL small), Ryun > (Kansas-Hot and Cold), Mills (poor, Indian Reservation), Lindgren, > Prefontaine(Oregon - Sloppy and wet), Hamilton (Wisconsin - now that is COLD > (yeah, Suzy), Samuelson (New Hampshire in February?), Kennedy (Ohio) et al, > (Please do not use Marc Davis, He is a paradigm:) All were raised in tough > environments, whether it is climatic, socio-economic, etc. I think for an > athlete to be great, sacrifices need to be made. I would challenge anyone > to list GREAT runners that grew up with a silver spoon and went onto > greatness. To be great, Sacrifices need to be made. Personally I think the > WORST thing that could happen to a great HS athlete is to give them a full > Scholarship. Make them EARN it. You have to be HUNGRY!! (Ask the Kenyans) > > > Fred Finke > *** > Fred Finke, LDR Men's Coach Selection Coordinator >--- O Men's Team Leader, World Cross, Morocco, 1998 >-- <^_ [EMAIL PROTECTED] and [EMAIL PROTECTED] > -- \/\ Visit me at: www.Coachnet.net > *** > > > --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > In a message dated Thu, 15 Mar 2001 12:48:27 AM > > Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > > > > << Dan, > > > > You have a great point. The weather was always a > > barrier for us in Utah as > > well. Keep in mind, however, that since I've been > > living in Southern > > California, I can't think of more than about 4 or 5 > > guys that were worth > > anything at all. Keep in mind that this is on the > > collegiate level. Coming > > from Utah, and Arkansas, I personally feel it's a > > disgrace that So. Cal > > colleges can't produce more distance talent than > > they do. It's pretty bad > > really. > > > > Any thoughts.? > > > > Schiefer >> > > > > Bad coaching. > > sideshow > > > > *** > Fred Finke, LDR Men's Coach Selection Coordinator >--- O Men's Team Leader, World Cross, Morocco, 1998 >-- <^_ [EMAIL PROTECTED] and [EMAIL PROTECTED] > -- \/\ Visit me at: www.Coachnet.net > *** > >
Re: t-and-f: Where have you gone Brendan Foster? The nation turns its lonely eyes to you - woo-woo-woo ...
Why the Goucher critique here? All the running mags seem to be predicting a US distance renaissance of sorts. The latest TFN has a box about the Big 3 High Schoolers and a box on Matt Lane, 4th at the trials 5k. All the talk about the 10k guys and breaking of American records and all. How soon everybody forgets. Umm, who WON the trials 5000m again? Oh yeah, Goucher. After an injury filled spring with no races. Which US guy was it that made the final in Sydney in his first Olympic attempt? Oh yeah, Goucher. Granted it wasn't his first track championship at the world level, that would have been '99 worlds after he WON US Nationals the first time, and went on to make the final. By the way, I've found most of the recent stuff on the list to be almost as boring as the 4th quarter of a Nets game. Grote adiRP/MMRD - Original Message - From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2001 1:11 PM Subject: Re: t-and-f: Where have you gone Brendan Foster? The nation turns its lonely eyes to you - woo-woo-woo ... > In a message dated Wed, 14 Mar 2001 4:54:05 PM Eastern Standard Time, "Mcewen, Brian T" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > << [whatever happened to that 'superstar' named Goucher?? Maybe the > big-time contract makes him less hungry?? Maybe that's the problem with US > distance running.] > > > > Thanks for filling the world in James ... but all of America who cares > already knows what 'happened' to Goucher. > > What would you say is the problem with British distance running? > > > -Brian McEwen > > P.S. no offense to Britain, they are no worse off than the U.S. ... it is > just that the 'problem' with US distance running has little to do with FAT > CONTRACTS. > >> > > Templeton won't take offense. He's an Ozzie. Oy-oy-oy. > sideshow > >
Re: t-and-f: Sanchez - New US Junior 5000 record?
No offense to Sanchez, great run, great record...BUT, where and when else is a better opportunity than Stanford to run faster than that?? He won't need to run another qualifier. He will likely want to be in tip-top contention shape for NCAA's and also maybe USATF Nationals, so why would he even need to run another 5k before then? Perhaps run the 5k at Big East's for the title and team points, however, that is being held in Piscataway, NJ. As much as I love the Garden State, Piscataway, exit 5 on I-287, is a land much different from my exit 26 home in Bernardsville. Now that I mention it, maybe they should have the Big East distance events at Bernards HS...pretty good track, not too windy, and the kids there sure as hell don't use it right anymore. I'll time and count the laps myself. Grote adiRP/MMRD - Original Message - From: Ed & Dana Parrot <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, April 02, 2001 2:33 PM Subject: Re: t-and-f: Sanchez - New US Junior 5000 record? > > > > With all the talk about US HS and Junior distance performances recently, > > has it been mentioned that Franklin Sanchez' (born 3/6/82), with his 3rd > > place at Stanford in 13:38.39 this past weekend, breaks the US Junior mark > > of 13:39.6 set by Steve Prefontaine in 1970? > > > Mighty impressive. And he still has a few months of track season to bring > it down further. > > - Ed Parrot > >
Re: t-and-f: Regionals
Coach Nick makes some good points. One more I'd like to make is that even the big track powers who send legions to nationals, win titles, produce world class athletes and so on...THEY DON'T MAKE ANY MONEY FOR THEIR SCHOOLS OR THE NCAA! Its a blackhole financially. College track, post-collegiate track, all of it. People should be happy to get whatever scholarships or money they get, as its basically just charity. Grote adiRP/MMRD - Original Message - From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, April 13, 2001 8:18 PM Subject: Re: t-and-f: Regionals > Ed- (and list) > your problem here is you think it is the NCAA's( and schools themselves) > job's to get these kids ready for International comp?? GET REAL, this list is > so off base when they talk about this stuff, it isnt funny. If those 100 or > more kids want to start in mid may that is fine, just let them pay their > respective tuitions and do their thing. > College Track is way more than the 1% who go to nationals, and as many of our > european folks will say, "school is for learning and Athletics is run by > clubs" School is for people who wish to learn, school's sponsor sports > (especailly non revenue one's) to give an all around experience for "mind and > body". While most schools love the press that having an athlete of theirs > make the Olympic team or such gets them, don't think for a second that school > Ad's or presidents give two shits what USATF wants or does. 98% of Kids who > do NCAA Track will never go to a NCAA Meet, most schools never send anyone, > and they dont stop having teams. These kids do it for their love of the > sport, and the schools have the sport to enhance kids experiences, and they > know they will see that money back many times over in donations and the like. >Fire away! > nick > (with first hand experience at many different levels) >
t-and-f: Stanford 10k and Not Just Kennedy
There are other people in the field...other Americans even. Everybody always seems to forget about Meb Keflezighi. He was rarely a favorite to win the NCAA titles he won. Kind of a surprise to people when he won the trials. Not the guy everybody talked about before x-c nationals in February. He is very tough to beat when ready. Sure, Kennedy beat him by a spot at world x-c... Grote adiRP/MMRD
Re: t-and-f: Predict Webb's future
Rather than predict his future (or place limits or expectations on him) lets just let it happen, lets just watch, enjoy and encourage it. More importantly, lets let Webb do the same thing. Please apply the same rules with Dathan Ritzenhein. As for potential matchups, maybe this fall in x-c, if no redshirting occurs. These are great runners, talents unlike any we've seen for a while in the US, who also happen to appear to love running and love working hard. Lets have faith that they will do whatever it takes and not impose our fans will upon them as has happened with Carl Lewis and others. Grote adiRP/MMRD - Original Message - From: Wayne T. Armbrust <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, May 28, 2001 4:55 PM Subject: Re: t-and-f: Predict Webb's future > > > Patrick Hoffman wrote: > > > I'm so excited about "the kid" that I went > > back to my lists of high school improvements to > > see what he might improve to in the next 15 years. > > > > Here is a sample of runners to give you an idea. > >Highschool bestimprovement > > > > Steve Scott 4:10+ 3:47 23 > > Steve Holman4:10+ 3:49+ 21 > > Joe Falcon 4:083:49 19 > > John Gregorek 4:053:51 14 > > Bob Kennedy 4:063:56 10 > > Marty Liquori 3:59.8 3:52.2 7.6 > > Matt Centrowitz 4:01.27+3:54.9 6.4 > > Jim Ryun3:553:51 4 > > Time Danielson 3:59.4 3:59.4 0 > > Gerry Lindgren 4:01.5 4:01.5 0 > > Rich Kimball4:02.4 4:02.4?0 > >Tom Byersc4:21 3:50+ 31 > > > > > > > Alan Webb 3:53.43 ?? > > -- > Wayne T. Armbrust, Ph.D. > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > ComputomarxT > 3604 Grant Ct. > Columbia MO 65203-5800 USA > (573) 445-6675 (voice & FAX) > http://www.Computomarx.com > "Know the difference between right and wrong... > Always give your best effort... > Treat others the way you'd like to be treated..." > - Coach Bill Sudeck (1926-2000) > > >
Re: t-and-f: half-joking thought about Webb
Lets not forget that college is kind of a fun time. If I could go to school for 10 years, I would, college is great. Let the kid grow up. I've never been to Ann Arbor, but all reports suggest its a great college town. Good football team for those non-meet fall Saturdays...Tommy Amaker running the show in hoops...good stuff. If Webb had signed with Stanford, by all means I'd say GO PRO! Grote adiRP/MMRD - Original Message - From: Martin J. Dixon To: Track & Field List Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2001 7:17 AM Subject: t-and-f: half-joking thought about Webb I realize that this is all hypothetical but why couldn't he get a 4 year deal with a shoe company that stipulates that he will be attending school and that he controls when and where he can compete? Somebody would have to offer it to him obviously and I don't know whether a shoe company would. Most of the big meets take place when he is out of school. There have been successful athletes out there who have had jobs(Steve Jones comes to mind) and I don't know about the rest of you but I didn't realize just how easy I had it when I went to post secondary school. 8 months a year with a lot of time off-nice gig if you can get it. I don't know how Webb is scholastically but it strikes me that a shoe company could get some mileage out of this kind of association. Maybe there are some issues to do with stepping on the toes of the NCAA but I don't know. T & F is unique compared to other big name sports because a large part of its' competitive schedule does not take place during the school year like football, basketball, hockey etc. Regards, Martin
Re: t-and-f: Webb vs Ngeny
This is ridiculous. Don't even bring up such topics. Let him be who he is. Not even a week since he breaks the near immortal Jim Ryun's record, and it has to be pointed out that Noah Ngeny is better. No fair. On those lines, you El Guerrouj is pretty good, he has run 3:26, but there is no way he'll break 3:20...and Geb's 10k record is great, but I don't think he's good enough to run 25:59 this year. Grote adiRP/MMRD - Original Message - From: Post, Marty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: 't-and-f@darkwing. uoregon. edu' (E-mail) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2001 10:16 AM Subject: t-and-f: Webb vs Ngeny > While Webb literally ran against El Guerrouj last Sunday, consider where he > now compares on paper against today's other great miler, Noah Ngeny. > > Back in the summer of 1997 when Ngeny was 18 years old (born Nov. 2, 1978) > he ran 3:50.41 for a mile and 3:32.91 for 1500 meters. > > Webb should certainly be able to improve on 3:38.26 at the USATF champs, but > as talented as he is, no way he runs sub-3:33 this year. > > > Marty Post > Senior Editor > Runner's World Magazine > www.runnersworld.com > >
t-and-f: adidas Meet TV?
Any coverage nationally or locally of the adidas Oregon Track Classic on Sunday? It has been on before. Not the meet's fault. What happened to the TV package of the Golden Spike Tour or whatever USATF drummed up? How about that great meet in Carbondale, Illinois? TFA? Raleigh? Oops. And if any meet is going to be on live real network TV, why would it not be The Prefontaine Classic??? Good God! Guess its not on the Golden Spike Tour. Why would it be? CBS used to show it live, remember? USATF marketing at its finest. For what its worth, none of the newspapers in my area (which happens to be the largest market in the US by far) had results of the Prefontaine Classic. Way to go, USATF. Don't blame somebody at a paper. No results is a failure. There was a tiny article on page 2 about Webb, but nothing else. Anyway, any word on any TV coverage would be good. I am having one of those DirectTV/UlitimateTV gigs installed as I type, so even if its on Fox Sports NW or something, let me know. Oh yeah, thats really great that top finishers at USATF Nationals will get prize money. Mo Greene, Marion Jones and the like really need the help. Grote adiRP/MMRD
Re: t-and-f: adidas Meet TV?
No, no I saw it, problem is not enough people did. CBS used to show the meet live. A lot more people watch anything on CBS than anything on FoxSports NY, which is what the meet was on. I happen to have Fox Sports New York, but its not standard. MSG is standard. A lot more people have MSG as it carries the Yankees, Fox Sports NY carries the Mets among other things (not why I signed on). I know a guy named Joe McVeigh who doesn't have Fox Sports NY, so even he missed it. But that is great news that the Princeton Meet is on...as that is a Golden Spike thingy...oh yeah, when was that meet? And the adidas meet will be on only a week post-event. I'll avoid seeing results at all costs just so that I can watch it all unfold. I hope that the telecast makes sure to focus on the important events of the meet like the sprints, thats what meets in Oregon are all about. Guys running sprints who won't be helped at all by the newfangled prize money structure at nationals. Grote adiRP/MMRD - Original Message - From: Kurt Bray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, June 01, 2001 8:31 PM Subject: Re: t-and-f: adidas Meet TV? > According to the RW website, the Oregon Track Classic will be televised June > 10th on ESPN2. The US Open from Stanford will be shown the same day on CBS. > > And the Prefontaine Classic WAS televised live - I watched it. You must > have been watching Beverly Hills 90201 reruns and missed it. > > And as for coverage of Webb, the press has done pretty well. The LA Times > had a nice piece about it. Sports Illustrated covers it pretty well too in > the current issue. This coupled with a big feature article about Ritz and > Webb in SI a week or two ago suggests something of a renaissance in track > coverage by that magazine (for now at least). > > Kurt Bray > > > > > >Any coverage nationally or locally of the adidas Oregon Track Classic on > >Sunday? It has been on before. Not the meet's fault. What happened to > >the TV package of the Golden Spike Tour or whatever USATF drummed up? How > >about that great meet in Carbondale, Illinois? TFA? Raleigh? Oops. > >And if any meet is going to be on live real network TV, why would it not be > >The Prefontaine Classic??? Good God! Guess its not on the Golden Spike > >Tour. Why would it be? CBS used to show it live, remember? USATF > >marketing at its finest. For what its worth, none of the newspapers in my > >area (which happens to be the largest market in the US by far) had results > >of the Prefontaine Classic. Way to go, USATF. Don't blame somebody at a > >paper. No results is a failure. There was a tiny article on page 2 about > >Webb, but nothing else. > > > >Anyway, any word on any TV coverage would be good. I am having one of > >those DirectTV/UlitimateTV gigs installed as I type, so even if its on Fox > >Sports NW or something, let me know. > > > >Oh yeah, thats really great that top finishers at USATF Nationals will get > >prize money. Mo Greene, Marion Jones and the like really need the help. > >Grote > >adiRP/MMRD > > > > _ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > >
t-and-f: USATF and Nationals and Money
It is my impression that USATF doesn't really have that much money that they can afford to just GIVE it away. As always, who says you get to be paid for running or for track & field? Sure, it'd be nice...but it is not a birthright. The sport in general from a marketing and revenue standpoint really doesn't seem to be healthy enough. Especially track. The sector of the sport that makes money and has big time sponsors is road racing. Sorry, but its true. The NYRRC has its stuff together. Look at the list of sponsors for the NYC Marathon, or even the run of the mill Central Park races. Then, if you have a tape of the Pre meet, pay attention to the commercials, or rather near infomercials. Sad. Furthermore, the athletes that could really use the money are not so much the athletes that will be in the top 4 at nationals, give or take a few of the more obscure events (no offense) like women's steeple, or vault other than Dragila, the hammer, women's TJ, etc. Perhaps some of the 3rd and 4th placers could use the money, but its only $500 for 4th. I'm old and have a mortgage now, so I may be outta touch, but $500 doesn't cover rent in many places anymore. The $3500 is great, but the guys and women struggling just to get to the meet are the ones who would really get a boost from that most likely, not the national champions. How many national champions have to work, or don't have shoe or other sponsor contracts? My solution for the strugglers is to keep the proverbial day job. As for the Devils, I'm not a rabid hockey fan. More of a Yankees and Nets guy, Walt. Grote adiRP/MMRD - Original Message - From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, June 01, 2001 5:43 PM Subject: Re: t-and-f: adidas Meet TV? > > In a message dated 6/1/01 5:22:41 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > > << Guys running sprints who won't be helped at all by > > the newfangled prize money structure at nationals. >> > > For every Maurice or Marion that doesn't need the prize money that USATF is > offering, I think it's safe to say that there are many more athletes who will > welcome the influx of cash, as modest a sum as it may be. What did you > expect, $50,000 per event from the start? How about giving USATF some credit > for at least trying to make improvements in the sport. > > That's enough venting for one afternoon...the rain has stopped(for now), the > sun is trying to peek through the clouds, and i'm off to Hayward Field! > > Walt Murphy > > > > Walt Murphy >
t-and-f: Re: Meets on TV, $$, etc
What I'm doing is looking out for #1...me. Thats right, I'm a selfish, capitalist bastard. More people and organizations should do this. Instead of charity work, USATF should get its stuff together, make sure nationals and trials (Sacto?) actually turn a profit. I do what works for my damnself. I love to run. I don't run races for money. I love to run a lot, too much. I don't expect to get free stuff, or be paid for it. If I do, bonus. If not, I've got ways figured out to make ends meet. So, perhaps what I do thats good for the sport is not be another burden or drain on it. How's that? I sell running shoes. I talk to young, impressionable, often clueless HS kids a lot. I advertise in USATF-NJ newsletters, sometimes even chip in some donations to clubs or races. Thats about all, I don't have much time, I work 6 days a week, run too much, and have a lawn to mow. Grote adiRP/MMRD - Original Message - From: mjroth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: T&F Listserve <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: Ryan Grote <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, June 01, 2001 10:24 PM Subject: Meets on TV, $$, etc > Grote, and other naysayers: > > While we all bitch here about the state of the sport, what are you doing > to improve the situation? Its so much easier to complain without doing > anything about the problem(s), but this does not help anyone. > > I'm sure the National Office & NJ Association of USATF could use someone > to help. > > MJR > >
t-and-f: Out On A Limb For 5k...
OK, big surprise here from me...I'm going to issue a happy congrats to somebody from Stanford. Call it East Coast bias, but seems to me like a gutsy race, and great career capping story with Jon Riley winning the NCAA 5000m. After running the 10k, and not winning, he had to be a sizeable underdog to the faster-PR'd and fresher Matt Lane, among others. Riley has seemingly always been close to the top since his frosh year. He has been steady and solid, as a 1500/5k guy, always running fast and placing well at nationals 3 times a year, but never winning. Stanford has had some big names, he's been one of them, and has had some big wins, but until yesterday he hasn't been one of them, but has always been expected to be. So, great story to finally win one. Grote adiRP/MMRD
Re: t-and-f: USATF and Nationals and Money
Its not that I don't think the best track athletes deserve big money. I wish that it was Meb that signed the 10 year 252 million dollar deal for his AR 10k instead of A-Rod to play SS for a crappy team. But its not. I wish that free agents in running were sought after as Chris Webber will be. But they aren't and won't be, thats just how it goes. The inequities are huge, but its simple; people/owners/companies pay for what the public wants to see. Track will never do what the big sports do, but could do better than its doing. Track needs to promote its strengths, and it has some. Millions of people run, and run races, and can relate to distance running or road racing if presented properly. Those people all buy shoes and other sponsors products potentially. Those people (take the masses who fill up NYC, Marine Corps, Chicago Marathons and run 4 hours plus) don't exactly relate as well to the 100m. Sorry, but its true. Give people's attention span some credit. Look, people go nuts to watch cars go in circles for hours in NASCAR...and those are all backwoods folks from the South, right Just kidding. So, plaster Tide, Cheerios, Valvoline on Meb's singlet, have fans drinking in the infield and in the stands, and people will be thrilled to watch a 25-lap distance race. Maybe. I dunno. Not saying its easy, but it could be done better. Promote what works, like Penn Relays, Mt. SAC, nationals, NYC, Boston marathons, and so on. Until those are marketed successfully, don't worry about drumming up stuff like the Golden Spike Tour. Something bigger and better could be done. Look at the growth of NASCAR and golf. Look how they have succeeded where competitors like Indy/Cart and tennis have failed. Or just go ahead and show the Princeton Invitational a month after the fact. Best race of the meet wasn't Marion, it was NJ HS girl Erin Donohue in the "elite" mile. I didn't go to that meet. I won't watch it on TV. But I will close my business early to go watch her and others run at the NJ State Meet of Champions on Wednesdsay. Thats the real deal there. Grote adiRP/MMRD - Original Message - From: Ed & Dana Parrot <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: 't-and-f@darkwing. uoregon. edu' (E-mail) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2001 1:26 PM Subject: Re: t-and-f: USATF and Nationals and Money > > It is my impression that USATF doesn't really have that much money that > they > > can afford to just GIVE it away. As always, who says you get to be paid > for > > running or for track & field? > > The money comes from the USOC for development - a lot more than just the > 300K+ that is being awarded at nationals (although not nearly the amount > that is needed!). USATF took a relatively small part of this money and > diverted it from awards based on year-end rankings to prize money. > > As for payment for track and field, I must disagree with Grote. To me, the > idea of track athletes being professional is so basic that I can't even make > an argument in its favor - it seems obvious. But I can respect a different > opinion. > > Malmo's post was right on about one thing in particular - grass roots is > where the action is. That's why I am heavily involved with the USATF > associations committee, which focuses solely on grass roots. This does not > mean that I think associations are doing a great job - with a few notable > exceptions we're doing a lousy job by most standards. But I believe the > focus of associations is in the right place. > > I still believe that prize money at nationals is a positive, long overdue > thing. The problem with grass roots in USATF is that the organization has > chosen to put most of its focus on the elite segment of the sport. We had > four years of little but lip service about grass roots (and worse before > that during the Cassell era), but new president Bill Roe has already done > more in six months than had been done during the previous four years. > Nevertheless, until either a critical mass within USATF finally realizes > that grass roots is the key to long term development, or the 57 associations > stop protecting their own turf and band together to seize control of the > organization (which is technically very possible), it will be an uphill > battle. > > - Ed Parrot > >
Re: t-and-f: adidas Meet TV?
Bottom line is they weren't in there. It should be SOMEBODY'S job to make sure they are in there. Don't pass the proverbial buck. Most track fans have figured out where to get results. If you want MORE track fans than you already have (assume that USATF does, right?) then the onus is definitely on the "Powers That Be" of t&f in this country to get the word and get the results out there. Not just put on the wire and leave it up to the papers. Demand it. Don't tell fans that they need to call the papers or contact editors. Thats insulting to the fans. I would think its insulting to the sponsors eventually, as well. Grote adiRP/MMRD - Original Message - From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, June 04, 2001 12:13 AM Subject: Re: t-and-f: adidas Meet TV? > Ryan, you blathered: > > < the largest market in the US by far) had results of the Prefontaine Classic. > Way to go, USATF. Don't blame somebody at a paper. No results is a failure. > There was a tiny article on page 2 about Webb, but nothing else.>> > > Below are the Pre results from the AP wire. The blame here falls not on USATF > nor the meet, but on your local papers. You can bring a horse to water, but. > . . > > Ryan Lamppa > > Prefontaine Classic Results > c The Associated Press > > Sunday > > At Eugene, Ore. > > (Race distances in meters) > > Men > > 100 - 1, Patrick Jarrett, Jamaica, 9.89 seconds. 2, Tim Montgomery, United > States, 9.92. 3, Maurice Greene, U.S., 9.92. 4, Bernard Williams, U.S., 9.95. > 5, Jon Drummond, U.S., 10.18. 6, Shawn Crawford, U.S., 10.26. 7, Bryan > Howard, U.S., 10.38. Bruny Surin, Canada, did not finish. > > 200 - 1, Bernard Williams, U.S., 20.18. 2, Ramon Clay, U.S., 20.33. 3, Shawn > Crawford, U.S., 20.39. 4, Christopher Williams, Jamaica, 20.49. 5, Jon > Drummond, U.S., 20.68. 6, Abdul Aziz Zakari, Ghana, 20.98. Kenny Brokenburr, > disqualified. > > 800 - 1, Patrick Nduwimana, Burundi, 1 minute, 44.93 seconds. 2, William > Chirchir, Kenya, 1:45.09. 3, Khadevis Robinson, U.S., 1:45.15. 4, Trinity > Gray, U.S., 1:45.35. 5, David Kiptoo, Kenya, 1:45.74. 6, Derrick Peterson, > U.S., 1:46.01. Rich Kenah, U.S., and James McIlroy, Ireland, did not finish. > > Mile - 1, Hicham El Guerrouj, Morocco, 3:49.92. 2, Kevin Sullivan, Canada, > 3:51.82. 3, Bernard Lagat, Kenya, 3:53.14. 4, Adil Kaouch, Morocco, 3:53.40. > 5, Alan Webb, U.S., 3:53.43 (high school record). 6, Hudson de Souza, Brazil, > 3:54.39. 7, Graham Hood, Canada, 3:54.62. 8, Bryan Berryhill, U.S., 3:55.01. > 9, Youssef Baba, Morocco, 3:55.10, 10, Raymond Yator, Kenya, 3:55.12. 11, > Martin Keino, Kenya, 3:56.87. 12, Daniel Zegeye, Ethiopia, 3:57.92. 13, > Ibrahim Aden, Somalia, 4:01.27. Sean Gross, Mike Miller and Jason Pyrah, > U.S., did not finish. > > 5,000 - 1, Luke Kipkosgei, Kenya, 13:13.27. 2, Leonard Mucheru, Kenya, > 13:14.94. 3, Abraham Chebii, Kenya, 13:17.62. 4, Bob Kennedy, U.S., 13:19.02. > 5, Meb Keflezighi, U.S., 13:23.16. 6, Said Berrioui, Morocco, 13:26.56. 7, > Ben Maiyo, Kenya, 13:28.33. 8, Mark Carroll, Ireland, 13:32.28. 9, Said El > Wardi, Morocco, 13:26.56. 10, Abdi Abdirahman, U.S., 13:33.00. 11, Teodoro > Vega, Mexico, 13:34.48. 12, Albert Chepkurui, Kenya, 13:34.61. 13, James > Getanda, Kenya, 13:36.90. 14, Pablo Olmedo, Mexico, 13:40.51. 15, Nick > Rogers, U.S., 13:41.17. 16, Nolan Swanson, U.S., 13:45.68. 17, Blair Martin, > New Zealand, 13:48.39. 18, Brent Hauser, U.S., 13:53.85. 19, Ray Hughes, > U.S., 13:57.81. Daniel Gachara, Kenya; Andrew Walker, Ireland; and Sammy > Langat, Kenya, did not finish. > > 100 hurdles - 1, Terrance Trammell, U.S., 13.34. 2, Dawane Wallace, U.S., > 13.38. 3, Mark Crear, U.S., 13.43. 4, Terry Reese, U.S., 13.56. 5, Eugene > Swift, U.S., 13.62. 6, Allen Johnson, U.S., 13.68. 7, Dudley Dorival, Haiti, > 13.69. 8, Dominique Arnold, U.S., 13.70. > > Discus - 1, Virgilijus Alekna, Lithuana, 220 feet, 5 inches. 2, Jason Tunks, > Canada, 215-7. 3, Vasily Kaptyukh, Belarus, 214-0. 4, Adam Setliff, U.S., > 211-0. 5, John Godina, U.S., 209-11. 6, Aleksandr Tammert, Estonia, 209-7. 7, > Andy Bloom, U.S., 207-3. 8, Gabor Mate, Hungary, 204-3. 9, Doug Reynolds, > U.S., 198-10. > > Women > > 200 - 1, Marion Jones, U.S., 22.26. 2, Juliet Campbell, Jamaica, 22.75. 3, > Latasha Colander-Richar, U.S., 22.87. 4, Torri Edwards, U.S., 23.00. 5, > Chandra Sturrup, Bahamas, 23.03. 6, Christine Arron, France, 23.50. 7, Nova > Peris, Australia, 23.44. 8, Chryste Gaines, U.S., 23.50. 9, Inger Miller, > U.S., 23.50. 10, Falilat Ogunkoya, Nigeria, 23.79. 11, Fatima Yussuf, > Nigeria, 23.85. > > 800 - 1, Maria Mutola, Mozambique, 1:58.90. 2, Tina Paulino, Mozambique, > 1:59.68. 3, Laetitia Vriesde, Suriname, 2:00.33. 4, Diane Cummins, U.S., > 2:00.78. 5, Charmaine Howell, Jamaica, 2:00.95. 6, Christie Cesar, U.S., > 2:07.96. Janette Davis, U.S., did not finish. > > 1,500 - 1, Suzy Favor Hamilton, U.S., 4:06.93. 2, Lyudmila Vasilyeva, Russia, > 4:09.75. 3, Lidia Chojecka, Pola
Re: t-and-f: Marion Jones to divorce CJ
Oh, this is shocking. First Tom and Nicole and now Marion and CJ? At least they don't have kids to squabble over like the movie star couple...then again neither Tom or Nicole was/is a convicted druggie. Or was CJ cleared? I forget. Good marketing, I mean marital move. Grote adiRP/MMRD - Original Message - From: Post, Marty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: 't-and-f@darkwing. uoregon. edu' (E-mail) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2001 3:19 PM Subject: t-and-f: Marion Jones to divorce CJ > > Triple Olympic champion Marion Jones said on Tuesday she had separated from > her husband, world shot put champion C.J. Hunter, and will seek a divorce. > "C.J. and I very recently decided we were headed in different directions in > terms of our lives and decided that it was time for us to go on in our > separate ways," Jones told Reuters in a telephone interview from her home in > Apex. > > > Marty Post > Senior Editor > Runner's World Magazine > www.runnersworld.com > >
Re: t-and-f: Hazel Clark Status?
I dunno, but I'm SURE it has nothing to do with the slap-on-the-wrist for the positive test from indoor nationals that Hazel received recently. No suspension, but a DQ and press release...not that there is necessarily any smoke where there is fire or anything. Or something... Grote adiRP/MMRD - Original Message - From: Chas. L. Shaffer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2001 12:23 AM Subject: t-and-f: Hazel Clark Status? > Does anyone know of Hazel Clark's current condition? She was announced as > an entrant to both the Prefontaine Classic and the adidas Oregon Track > Classic, but did not compete. I did not notice any mention of a scratch in > the Eugene Register-Guard. > > And, how about Regina Jacobs? She was also listed as an entrant in the > Prefontaine 800m, and I saw her sitting in the VIP area atop the implement > weighing area, but she did not compete. In Portland a week later, she died > badly with 200m to go, fading from the top 3 to last or nearly so around > the ultimate curve. She stepped off behind the discus cage. > > Charley Shaffer > Seattle > >
Re: t-and-f: mile improvement since high school
University of Portland school record holder Todd Davis (3:59 inside? 8:37 steeple, 13:48 5000m) ran 4:09 in high school...for 1500m. In February of 1997, at the annual Halftime Mile on the 8-turn 240m track upstairs/above/around the basketball court at halftime of a hoops game (as the name suggests) Todd Davis won THE BATTLE of DAVIS in a furious come-from-behind sprint over Olypmian (in the uniform for the event) Marc Davis. Grote adiRP/MMRD - Original Message - From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2001 11:14 AM Subject: Re: t-and-f: mile improvement since high school > How about Karl Paranya (Haverford sub 4, HS 4:20-ish) > > Jim Gerweck > Running Times >
Re: t-and-f: WC 'A' standard holders in distances?
J. Geils Band got me inspired and into some trouble in 2nd grade...I think I was the only one who had the album...favorite song was "Piss On The Wall"...great tune...but I don't think the janitor at my elementary school thought so. Grote adiRP/MMRD - Original Message - From: david honea <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2001 2:30 PM Subject: RE: t-and-f: WC 'A' standard holders in distances? > Brian McEwan wrote: > > > <<< In the 5k (13:25.00) I count Kennedy, Meb, Broe this year, with > Rodgers > > and > > Goucher from last year (Lane just misses). Could make for an interesting > > choice for Broe. With the SC A standard at 8:25, you'll certainly have to > > beat that to make the team at the USATF final. But the SC prelim and the > 5k > > are on the same day, and only 1 day after the 10k. So if Meb makes the > team > > in the 10k, he's likely not going to run the 5k?? So Broe may just have > to > > beat Rodgers (13:40-something at Pre) to possibly make the team? Broe > > looked flat in the SC on Sunday, and although he is tough, is no lock to > > make it in the SC. >>> > > > > A: Kennedy and Goucher have shown great recent form, enough to expect > they > > will be 1-2. Broe seems to be 'the best of the rest' so far (for the 5k). > > Abdirahman will run the 10k. Rogers is a 10k-specialist despite his > Olympic > > races last year. The question is : will anyone double? Will Meb run the > > 5k/10k? With good times the last 2 years he might. Will Lane edge Broe > for > > third though? Or will Riley? > > Recall that going into the trials last year, Hauser and Rogers were 10k > specialists with the A standard in their event, and Meb was just another > good runner without the A standard in anything. A month later Hauser and > Rogers were 5k Olympians, and Meb was the US leader in the event (#4 > all-time). Granting that Kennedy and Goucher look bulletproof right now, it > is probably not a good idea to assume to limited a set of contenders for the > other spot on the world team, and definitely not a good idea to assume that > anyone good enough to place in the top three could not then get under 13:25 > in a European vacuum race. > > > BTM > > "I was lookin' at a Flashback Sunday, slow-motion weekend got me > > DNNN!" J.Geils, 1981 > Unless you were one of the people lined up to buy the album on the day of > release (didn't everyone?), you never heard this song in 1981, as it did not > debut on the top 40 until March of '82, when I dutifully recorded it in my > notebook. The peak, at number four, was in April-May. (I had a LOT of spare > time in seventh grade.) > You can play fast and loose with track stats if you want, but nobody gets > away with misstatements about 80's music on any list I read. (Which is > pretty much just this one, but if you hear of problems somewhere else let me > know.) > > david > > > >
Re: t-and-f: what's the best HS distance medley of all-time?...DMR 400 Futility?
How about what's the worst 400 leg of a great HS DMR? My alma mater, Bernards High ran officially 2nd (same time as 1st) at Penn Relays '83 with a then-record 10:00.6. I don't have it in front of me, but I think that quarter miler ran 52.6...maybe slower. Ed Grant knows, I'm sure. That fall, Bernards won the NJ Meet of Champs in x-c for the 2nd straight year as a Group 1 (smallest) public school. No public school has won since. They lost anchor John Carlotti (won state Meet of Champs in x-c, twice in 800, and in 1600), Chris Blanchet (won MofC in 3200 indoors/outdoors) and Paul Stogryn (made World Jr. x-c team in HS) from that squad. The next year they only managed 10:06 at Penn to WIN. Guy by the name of Jim Nielsen anchored the winners (he wound being the winner of both the 1600/3200 at the MofC that year, nobody else has ever done that before/after)...had the pleasure of meeting and running with Mr. Nielsen yesterday AM for the first 62 mins. of a long run. Grote adiRP/MMRD - Original Message - From: David Dallman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Post, Marty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: 't-and-f@darkwing. uoregon. edu' (E-mail) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, June 18, 2001 11:18 AM Subject: Re: t-and-f: what's the best HS distance medley of all-time? > For a time of 10 minutes, the conversion factor would be about 3.6 to > 3.7 seconds. That is, both metric times mentioned are intrinsically > superior to the 10:01.6 non-metric one. > David Dallman > > > On Mon, 18 Jun 2001, Post, Marty wrote: > > > South Lakes 9:49.78 at the distance medley broke the 14-year-old HSR of > > 9:53.31 by McCullough. > > > > However,. back in 1977 South Eugene ran a 10:01.6 when the legs were at > > non-metric yard distances. > > > > What's the conversion factor and which mark is intrinsically superior? > > > > > > Marty Post > > Senior Editor > > Runner's World Magazine > > www.runnersworld.com > > > > > > David Dallman > CERN - SIS > > >
Re: t-and-f: Webb maybe top 3 at USATF 1500... but not going to Edmonton.
But what if he wins? Is it then a situation a la the marathon trials where
the champion gets into the meet even if no qualifier? Can the champion who
runs 3:39 go to Worlds and block others who potentially posess the standard?
Better yet, who the hell cares, let the racing play itself out on the track
and worry about the ramifications later. Its that old cart before the horse
thing.
Grote
adiRP/MMRD
- Original Message -
From: Post, Marty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 't-and-f@darkwing. uoregon. edu' (E-mail) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2001 1:46 PM
Subject: t-and-f: Webb maybe top 3 at USATF 1500... but not going to
Edmonton.
> The WC "A" standard at 1500m is rather stiff this year: 3:36.20.
>
> >From 1983 there has been exactly one US championship where the winning
time
> was 3:36.20 or faster, last year when Jennings ran 3:35.90 (and he was the
> only one).
>
> The last three US champs in Eugene ('86, 93, '99) winning times were
> 3:42.41, 3:42.74 and 3:39.21.
>
> Even if Webb makes top 3 it seems extremely remote he'll have "A"
qualifier.
> And his coach has supposedly said he will not chase one in Europe.
>
>
> Marty Post
> Senior Editor
> Runner's World Magazine
> www.runnersworld.com
>
>
