Re: [Tagging] How to tag a cistern?
On 3/02/2015 8:10 AM, Clifford Snow wrote: On Mon, Feb 2, 2015 at 12:54 PM, John F. Eldredge j...@jfeldredge.com mailto:j...@jfeldredge.com wrote: Once again, we are divided by a common language. In American usage, a cistern is a holding tank for captured rain water, used as an alternative to a well in areas where no city water supply is available. They often take the form of an underground pit with a waterproof lining. I've also seen them on the coast of Alaska in above ground tanks to catch rain water. In Australia rain water collection is common, or more correctly essential, in country areas. They are usually placed on the ground, or on a platform. Less frequently they are on elevated platforms or underground. Frequently they are simply called 'rain water tanks' or 'water tanks'. Cistern would be very rarely used, if ever, for these kind of tanks. In remote areas each building will have at least one tank, some the the tanks are quite large. Probable tag http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/storage_tank ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Lifecycle concepts, REMOVED
On Mon, Feb 02, 2015 at 04:53:03PM +0100, Janko Mihelić wrote: 2015-01-28 19:25 GMT+01:00 Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org: If there used to be a building but all that is left is a clearing in the forest, then the clearing will be in OSM, and not a building with a lifecycle tag of removed. But what if hikers still refer to the spot? Like Let's go to the burnt alpine hut, and then go left. That is a pretty important landmark, even if there is no sign of the hut any more. Maybe we can tag it as place=locality. perhaps the destroyed: prefix? I would assume it should be used mostly if there are still visible ruins but should be also ok as long as it is well known what it refers to. Otherwise locality seems better. Richard ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Draft Additions to camp_site
On 2 February 2015 at 05:56, Warin 61sundow...@gmail.com wrote: Not found an OSM sewer dump point key. Lots of United Kingdom canals have these. See also: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Pumpout http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Sanitary_Station http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:seamark:small_craft_facility:category%3Dpump-out The former pair both suggest Obsoleted by Tag:amenity=waste_disposal, waste=excrement: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:waste -- Andy Mabbett @pigsonthewing http://pigsonthewing.org.uk ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Electronic or 'e' cigarettes?
On 22 January 2015 at 18:00, fly lowfligh...@googlemail.com wrote: Anyway, I do not know a single shop in my area which only sells them so shop=* will never fit. Never? I'm reminded of the maxim that the singular of data is not anecdote. (There are several such shops in my home city.) -- Andy Mabbett @pigsonthewing http://pigsonthewing.org.uk ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] How to tag a cistern?
On Mon, Feb 2, 2015 at 12:54 PM, John F. Eldredge j...@jfeldredge.com wrote: Once again, we are divided by a common language. In American usage, a cistern is a holding tank for captured rain water, used as an alternative to a well in areas where no city water supply is available. They often take the form of an underground pit with a waterproof lining. I've also seen them on the coast of Alaska in above ground tanks to catch rain water. Clifford -- @osm_seattle osm_seattle.snowandsnow.us OpenStreetMap: Maps with a human touch ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Draft Additions to camp_site
On 3/02/2015 8:46 AM, Andy Mabbett wrote: On 2 February 2015 at 05:56, Warin 61sundow...@gmail.com wrote: Not found an OSM sewer dump point key. Lots of United Kingdom canals have these. See also: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Pumpout http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Sanitary_Station http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:seamark:small_craft_facility:category%3Dpump-out The former pair both suggest Obsoleted by Tag:amenity=waste_disposal, waste=excrement: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:waste Looks likeTag:amenity=waste_disposal should be the correct tag to use. Unfortunately the main wiki page suggests it is for solid waste only .. and it needs a rewrite .. and it limits its use to caravans and boats Needs a rewrite to be more open and to include sewage! And I'd think its key:waste could be moved to the main page to simplify and ease its use. I'll start another thread. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] RFD Camp ground Kitchens and their fittings
On February 1, 2015 3:10:13 AM CST, Warin 61sundow...@gmail.com wrote: On 1/02/2015 7:47 PM, Dave Swarthout wrote: There is much that needs to be done to bring OSM up to speed regarding camping facilities IMO. We have only a very few tags tourism=camp_site, tourism=caravan_site, and in a stretch, leisure=summer camp to describe the myriad of facilities out there. AFAIK, there is no way to distinguish a primitive camp site from one that caters to motorized tourists, or one that offers kitchen facilities to customers. In New Zealand many campgrounds have a shared kitchen area, which they refer to as an ablution block, that includes assorted pots and pans and a source of hot water. A very nice feature indeed. ? Umm according to wiki and corresponds to my understanding abolition is cleaning oneself. So showers? Nothing to do with preparing or cooking food.. They couldbe in the same structure .. but an abolition block may not have food facilities. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ablution http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/ablution I don't have any suggestions but want to wish you luck on getting your tagging resolved. Cheers, Dave Thanks. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging Ablution is cleaning oneself. Abolition is abolishing (ending) some practice, such as abolishing slavery. -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Darkness cannot drive out darkness: only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate: only love can do that. -- Martin Luther King, Jr. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
[Tagging] Wiki on amenity=waste_disposal Rewrite?
Hi, Reading the wiki on key:amenity=waste_disposal http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity%3Dwaste_disposal says .. it is not for 'watery waste disposal' .. yet the key:waste says it is for 'watery waste disposal' It needs a rewrite into a sensible thing! That is consistent! And does not reference old history but simply states what it it for and how to use it... Any objections to a rewrite .. you can if you wish leave it to me .. (with possible speeelin errors and auto corrections) ? ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Electronic or 'e' cigarettes?
On 23 January 2015 at 02:43, John F. Eldredge j...@jfeldredge.com wrote: my understanding is that the electronic cigarette contains a battery-powered heater and a reservoir of nicotine-containing liquid. Some are designed to be thrown away once the battery power and/or liquid are used up, More environmentally-damaging stupidity:-( -- Andy Mabbett @pigsonthewing http://pigsonthewing.org.uk ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Draft Additions to camp_site
amenity=dump_station OK, I was preparing text for that, I searched for dump_point which is the term used here, nothing. Its something we most certainly need and could be used as a standalone node or one associated with (eg) camp_site. Must make a clear distinction between waste and human waste, many caravans and motorhomes have chemical toilets and need a very specific dump station to empty. In most cases, its not acceptable to empty them into a a normal toilet, the chemicals some people use can devastate a septic tank. Warin, I am a bit surprised you have added dumpstation to the list even though its not approved. Is this the way its done ? Or is it OK to mention dumpstation because it does already have a page ? I'd also like to add max_stay and something that indicates pets are allowed, that should be enough for now. Pets=yes/no/conditional ?? I'll add a link to the (inactive) dumpstation one, think we need have a go at getting that approved, important. Is the model to reactivate the existing page ? David On Tue, 2015-02-03 at 07:15 +1100, Warin wrote: Done. Thanks .. I knew there was one out there somewhere. I think amenity=dump_station needs to be redone, the reasons for its rejection by some have been outdated by the quoted tags evolving over time making amenity=dump_station essential. . On 2/02/2015 9:29 PM, Dave Swarthout wrote: I like what you've done with this. I would suggest that for waste disposal, i.e., sewage, consider adding amenity=dump_station to the list of optional tags. Although Taginfo shows only about 100 instances of the tag so far (including variations like dump_station=yes/no), Dump Station, etc.) , this term describing a facility for dumping of RV holding tanks is very common in the U.S. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] How to tag a cistern?
On Mon, Feb 2, 2015 at 1:35 PM, Warin 61sundow...@gmail.com wrote: In Australia rain water collection is common, or more correctly essential, in country areas. They are usually placed on the ground, or on a platform. Less frequently they are on elevated platforms or underground. Frequently they are simply called 'rain water tanks' or 'water tanks'. Cistern would be very rarely used, if ever, for these kind of tanks. In remote areas each building will have at least one tank, some the the tanks are quite large. Probable tag http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/storage_tank Since we default to British English, I wonder what the Brits call these tanks? -- @osm_seattle osm_seattle.snowandsnow.us OpenStreetMap: Maps with a human touch ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Wiki on amenity=waste_disposal Rewrite?
The problem is that waste as currently defined in the wiki refers to things you want to dispose of that would come out of a home or office, things like table scraps, cans and bottles, paper, discarded packaging materials. My term for this is trash or garbage. These days much of that is recycled, especially in certain environmentally aware communities, but that's far from being the general case. As usual, there are differing definitions for these terms depending on where you live and what you are accustomed to. If you rewrite the wiki definition of amenity=waste_disposal to include sewage I think you'll invite a lot of extra discussion and run into a dead end with your proposal. Using it with a subkey like waste=sewage might be a better approach but then there needs to be a bunch of other waste=* subkeys for recyclable items, paper items, etc. On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 6:21 AM, Warin 61sundow...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, Reading the wiki on key:amenity=waste_disposal http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity%3Dwaste_disposal says .. it is not for 'watery waste disposal' .. yet the key:waste says it is for 'watery waste disposal' It needs a rewrite into a sensible thing! That is consistent! And does not reference old history but simply states what it it for and how to use it... Any objections to a rewrite .. you can if you wish leave it to me .. (with possible speeelin errors and auto corrections) ? ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging -- Dave Swarthout Homer, Alaska Chiang Mai, Thailand Travel Blog at http://dswarthout.blogspot.com ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Wiki on amenity=waste_disposal Rewrite?
The key:amenity=waste_disposal has a sub key http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:waste where some of the things you mention as stated. These presently are; * *waste*=trash http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Tag:waste%3Dtrashaction=editredlink=1 - (for trash/rubbish) * *waste*=excrement http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Tag:waste%3Dexcrementaction=editredlink=1 - (for /excrement evacuation systems/ for boats) * *waste*=oil http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Tag:waste%3Doilaction=editredlink=1 - (for motoroil, diesel and emulsions) * *waste*=chemical_toilet http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Tag:waste%3Dchemical_toiletaction=editredlink=1 - (for chemical toilets) * *waste*=grey_water http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Tag:waste%3Dgrey_wateraction=editredlink=1 - (for soapy water, like from showers and dish washing) * *waste*=drugs http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Tag:waste%3Ddrugsaction=editredlink=1 - to subtag a special container for the collection of pharmaceuticals / medicine / drugs * *waste*=organic http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Tag:waste%3Dorganicaction=editredlink=1 * *waste*=plastic http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Tag:waste%3Dplasticaction=editredlink=1 * *waste*=rubble http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Tag:waste%3Drubbleaction=editredlink=1 * *waste*=scrap_metal http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Tag:waste%3Dscrap_metalaction=editredlink=1 The key:waste=excrement already exists as a sub tag under amenity=waste_disposal but the main page is not consistent with that .. Either the main page is wrong to exclude excrement OR the waste page is wrong to include it. Take your pick.I vote for excrement on the main wiki page, not for its exclusion. The main page also mentions A place where canal boaters, caravaners etc. can dispose of rubbish (trash/waste). better expressed as A place where people can dispose of waste.?There are a few of these kind of statements that are tending to exclude things .. when there is no alternative and where the key:waste= includes them. --Recycling? I'd think bins dedicated to recycling would be better tagged using the existing amenity=recycling http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity%3Drecycling . On 3/02/2015 11:36 AM, Dave Swarthout wrote: The problem is that waste as currently defined in the wiki refers to things you want to dispose of that would come out of a home or office, things like table scraps, cans and bottles, paper, discarded packaging materials. My term for this is trash or garbage. These days much of that is recycled, especially in certain environmentally aware communities, but that's far from being the general case. As usual, there are differing definitions for these terms depending on where you live and what you are accustomed to. If you rewrite the wiki definition of amenity=waste_disposal to include sewage I think you'll invite a lot of extra discussion and run into a dead end with your proposal. Using it with a subkey like waste=sewage might be a better approach but then there needs to be a bunch of other waste=* subkeys for recyclable items, paper items, etc. On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 6:21 AM, Warin 61sundow...@gmail.com mailto:61sundow...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, Reading the wiki on key:amenity=waste_disposal http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity%3Dwaste_disposal says .. it is not for 'watery waste disposal' .. yet the key:waste says it is for 'watery waste disposal' It needs a rewrite into a sensible thing! That is consistent! And does not reference old history but simply states what it it for and how to use it... Any objections to a rewrite .. you can if you wish leave it to me .. (with possible speeelin errors and auto corrections) ? ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org mailto:Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging -- Dave Swarthout Homer, Alaska Chiang Mai, Thailand Travel Blog at http://dswarthout.blogspot.com ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Draft Additions to camp_site
I'm afraid this is contentious? See the thread I've started on Wiki on amenity=waste_disposal Rewrite? The longer 'we' wait the more people will see this and make comments.. Think I'll remove it for now .. and wait for developments. Excrement will out in the end :) On 3/02/2015 11:44 AM, David Bannon wrote: amenity=dump_station OK, I was preparing text for that, I searched for dump_point which is the term used here, nothing. Its something we most certainly need and could be used as a standalone node or one associated with (eg) camp_site. Must make a clear distinction between waste and human waste, many caravans and motorhomes have chemical toilets and need a very specific dump station to empty. In most cases, its not acceptable to empty them into a a normal toilet, the chemicals some people use can devastate a septic tank. Warin, I am a bit surprised you have added dumpstation to the list even though its not approved. Is this the way its done ? Or is it OK to mention dumpstation because it does already have a page ? I'd also like to add max_stay and something that indicates pets are allowed, that should be enough for now. Pets=yes/no/conditional ?? I'll add a link to the (inactive) dumpstation one, think we need have a go at getting that approved, important. Is the model to reactivate the existing page ? David On Tue, 2015-02-03 at 07:15 +1100, Warin wrote: Done. Thanks .. I knew there was one out there somewhere. I think amenity=dump_station needs to be redone, the reasons for its rejection by some have been outdated by the quoted tags evolving over time making amenity=dump_station essential. . On 2/02/2015 9:29 PM, Dave Swarthout wrote: I like what you've done with this. I would suggest that for waste disposal, i.e., sewage, consider adding amenity=dump_station to the list of optional tags. Although Taginfo shows only about 100 instances of the tag so far (including variations like dump_station=yes/no), Dump Station, etc.) , this term describing a facility for dumping of RV holding tanks is very common in the U.S. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
[Tagging] Access restrictions for shoulder lanes?
Hi! If shoulder lanes are mapped (for whatever reason!), what access restrictions should we apply? A simple vehicle=no doesn't seem right to me. In some countries those lanes may be accessed regularly, e.g. by pedestrians or motorcycles, so foot=yes + motorcycle=yes is obvious, but what would be the access restrictions for all other vehicles? Best regards, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Access restrictions for shoulder lanes?
Assuming you are talking about the hard shoulder AKA emergency lane on motorways, in NL and GB it would quite simply be access=no. The only exceptions are if you break down, if you are an emergency service, or if you are instructed to by the police (or similar authority). On 2015-02-02 14:17, Martin Vonwald wrote: Hi! If shoulder lanes are mapped (for whatever reason!), what access restrictions should we apply? A simple vehicle=no doesn't seem right to me. In some countries those lanes may be accessed regularly, e.g. by pedestrians or motorcycles, so foot=yes + motorcycle=yes is obvious, but what would be the access restrictions for all other vehicles? Best regards, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging [1] Links: -- [1] https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] patron saints
Isn't there an official dedication for a given japanese place of worship? Some has 1 official (main) dedication. Some has plural dedication as official. e.g. Katori Jingu Shrine = 経津主大神 (Futsunushi-no-Kami) http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E9%A6%99%E5%8F%96%E7%A5%9E%E5%AE%AE http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katori_Shrine http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E7%B5%8C%E6%B4%A5%E4%B8%BB%E7%A5%9E http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Futsunushi Wikidata Notability Each Japanese shrine has always their dedication god(s). Even pretty small shrine (such as wayside_shrine) has. If we use wikidata, Notability of Wikipedia might be problematic. Maybe it is better to make a brand new dataset for this purpose. (too heavy, indeed) Sorry that I missed your proposal. Do not mind :) Let's make better approach together! 2015-01-30 18:40 GMT+09:00 Jo winfi...@gmail.com: I think that when it gets really that complex, it's best to create a wikidata item for the shrine (and probably a Wikpedia page as well, I guess at least on ja.WP they are noteworthy enough to deserve a page), then simply refer to that using the wikidata tag itself. and maybe a comma delimited list of wikidata Q-refs in the dedication:wikidata tag, for people who want to rely on only OSM data for statistics purposes. Jo 2015-01-29 13:24 GMT+01:00 Satoshi IIDA nyamp...@gmail.com: +1 to use wikidata. I had once thinking about same purpose. :) https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/enshrine But many place of worship in Japanese have multiple dedication gods. And when we would like to express using semi-colon (;), multi-lingual approach would be fail into complex array. e.g. If a shrine dedicates 3 gods. in Japanese Kanji = 天照大御神; 月讀命; 素戔嗚尊 in English = Amaterasu-Oomikami; Tsukuyomi-no-Mikoto; Susanoo-no-Mikoto And each gods has loc_name, alt_name, or alternated writings. I was thinking about dedication:N (like Addr:N) once, but it is a bit troublesome. 2015-01-29 2:10 GMT+09:00 Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com: 2015-01-28 17:12 GMT+01:00 André Pirard a.pirard.pa...@gmail.com: Speaking of Vatican, i.e. Roman Catholic Church, Mary is Blessed, not Saint. Her title is Beata Virgo Maria (Beata Vergine Maria in Italian, Blessed Virgin Mary in English). She is an unordinary Blessed, as she and her feasts are more important than those of the Saints; anyway, Saint Mary is nothing but a popular name :-) Are you sure about this? Because I have heard about Santissima Madre di Dio (holiest mother of God) My reply was of course kidding. That, in Simone's terms, the Vatican use a popular language ;-) The fact is that in French, we use no such words as Blessed. the correct term in French is bienheureux ou bienheureuse, le qualificatif donné à une personne qui a été béatifiée http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/B%C3%A9atification cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging -- Satoshi IIDA mail: nyamp...@gmail.com twitter: @nyampire ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging -- Satoshi IIDA mail: nyamp...@gmail.com twitter: @nyampire ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
[Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Grave
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Grave ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] How to tag a cistern?
On Feb 2, 2015, at 4:58 PM, Marc Gemis marc.ge...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Feb 1, 2015 at 2:16 PM, John Willis jo...@mac.com wrote: Speaking of cisterns, Does this notion of cistern are reservoirs cover fire cisterns? I think in this case you could use emergency=water_tank [1] Sweet - that is exactly what I was thinking of - I'm surprised I missed it. Javbw ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Draft Additions to camp_site
I like what you've done with this. I would suggest that for waste disposal, i.e., sewage, consider adding amenity=dump_station to the list of optional tags. Although Taginfo shows only about 100 instances of the tag so far (including variations like dump_station=yes/no), Dump Station, etc.) , this term describing a facility for dumping of RV holding tanks is very common in the U.S. On Mon, Feb 2, 2015 at 1:23 PM, Tod Fitch t...@fitchdesign.com wrote: Sorry for the quote all, but the email app on this cell phone doesn't make it easy to edit quoted text. Regarding detail mapping of individual sites/pitches, the reason I mapped the camp sites in the campgrounds on a local mountain was for a Forest Service volunteer group. The local medical fire/ambulance agency saw it and asked for a copy. Changing my Mapnik style sheets around I was able to make a large scale printed map with the specific details they wanted. They believe it will save time in responding to medical incidents. When I get back in town and to a real computer I'll make the wiki edits suggested by another response on this thread. Tod On February 1, 2015 4:43:30 PM PST, David Bannon dban...@internode.on.net wrote: On Sun, 2015-02-01 at 15:22 -0800, Tod Fitch wrote: . I would like to have some of the items on Extend_camp_site page brought onto the main camp_site page. Specifically the site/pitch specific tags at http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Extend_camp_site#Tagging_of_individual_pitches While they are not widely used, I see a fairly big geographical distribution which implies that they might be understood and universal enough to warrant better mention. And, of course, I used them myself when mapping a couple of U.S. Forest Service campgrounds. :) Tod, I agree with the idea but mindful of Warin's advice, more things on the page, less chance of getting it approved. Incidently, AU we'd say 'site', the overall area would be a campground (but too late, its already called camp_site). I don't know if I, personally, would ever bother to map a campground down to individual sites (or pitches as you would say). But campground owners sure would and it would be useful indeed. I'd vote for them. Maybe we should try and do parallel development of these things, bring up a proposal for - 1. Overall campground, titled additions to tourism=camp_site 2. Site specific additions, pitch specific additions to tourism=camp_site 3. Warin's kitchen specific ones. We could prepare and discuss as a set but keep voting separate so we don't get a few negative votes killing whole thing ? David -- Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging -- Dave Swarthout Homer, Alaska Chiang Mai, Thailand Travel Blog at http://dswarthout.blogspot.com ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Looking for photos of italian motorways
Hi Martin, I just forwarded your message to talk-it. Luca 2015-02-02 11:55 GMT+01:00 Martin Vonwald imagic@gmail.com: Hi! I'm looking for photos of italian motorways, especially south Italy, e.g. between Napoli and Reggio Calabria, but also for north Italy. I couldn't find any on the usually suspects (Mapillary, autobahn-bilder). If you have some photos available, please let me know. If you plan any journeys there, please think of Mapillary or similar ;-) Thanks! Best regards, Martin P.S: Would be nice if someone with access to the italian mailing list might forward this. Thanks! ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
[Tagging] Looking for photos of italian motorways
Hi! I'm looking for photos of italian motorways, especially south Italy, e.g. between Napoli and Reggio Calabria, but also for north Italy. I couldn't find any on the usually suspects (Mapillary, autobahn-bilder). If you have some photos available, please let me know. If you plan any journeys there, please think of Mapillary or similar ;-) Thanks! Best regards, Martin P.S: Would be nice if someone with access to the italian mailing list might forward this. Thanks! ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Wiki on amenity=waste_disposal Rewrite?
Good move Warin. At present, this key seems a bit light on for documentation, no history and little info for any of it children. Is it an 'approved' key ? Little use. In the context where this discussion came up, camp_sites, I'd suggest waste=chemical_toilet is the one we are interested in. The waste=excrement mentions boat. Boat facilities are distinctly different, usually relying on a large hose connecting the two tanks and a pump. Chemical_toilets (in my experience) are a concrete 'bowl' about half a square metre where the material in question is either poured or pumped. Should we start by improving the documentation there ? David On Tue, 2015-02-03 at 12:05 +1100, Warin wrote: The key:amenity=waste_disposal has a sub key http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:waste where some of the things you mention as stated. These presently are; * waste=trash - (for trash/rubbish) * waste=excrement - (for excrement evacuation systems for boats) * waste=oil - (for motoroil, diesel and emulsions) * waste=chemical_toilet - (for chemical toilets) * waste=grey_water - (for soapy water, like from showers and dish washing) * waste=drugs - to subtag a special container for the collection of pharmaceuticals / medicine / drugs * waste=organic * waste=plastic * waste=rubble * waste=scrap_metal The key:waste=excrement already exists as a sub tag under amenity=waste_disposal but the main page is not consistent with that .. Either the main page is wrong to exclude excrement OR the waste page is wrong to include it. Take your pick. I vote for excrement on the main wiki page, not for its exclusion. The main page also mentions A place where canal boaters, caravaners etc. can dispose of rubbish (trash/waste). better expressed as A place where people can dispose of waste.? There are a few of these kind of statements that are tending to exclude things .. when there is no alternative and where the key:waste= includes them. -- Recycling? I'd think bins dedicated to recycling would be better tagged using the existing amenity=recycling http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity%3Drecycling . On 3/02/2015 11:36 AM, Dave Swarthout wrote: The problem is that waste as currently defined in the wiki refers to things you want to dispose of that would come out of a home or office, things like table scraps, cans and bottles, paper, discarded packaging materials. My term for this is trash or garbage. These days much of that is recycled, especially in certain environmentally aware communities, but that's far from being the general case. As usual, there are differing definitions for these terms depending on where you live and what you are accustomed to. If you rewrite the wiki definition of amenity=waste_disposal to include sewage I think you'll invite a lot of extra discussion and run into a dead end with your proposal. Using it with a subkey like waste=sewage might be a better approach but then there needs to be a bunch of other waste=* subkeys for recyclable items, paper items, etc. On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 6:21 AM, Warin 61sundow...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, Reading the wiki on key:amenity=waste_disposal http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity% 3Dwaste_disposal says .. it is not for 'watery waste disposal' .. yet the key:waste says it is for 'watery waste disposal' It needs a rewrite into a sensible thing! That is consistent! And does not reference old history but simply states what it it for and how to use it... Any objections to a rewrite .. you can if you wish leave it to me .. (with possible speeelin errors and auto corrections) ? ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging -- Dave Swarthout Homer, Alaska Chiang Mai, Thailand Travel Blog at http://dswarthout.blogspot.com ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - traffic_signals (Lukas Schaus)
I did a major update on my proposal regarding the mapping of traffic signals. As per the talk pageI’d like you to consider including (and documenting in the proposal) rendering the name=* of the “signal” in this situation, as the relation encompasses the entire set of signals - which in Japan, are named, and represented with a singleTraffic_signals icon. Even without a name, the single icon per complex intersection is preferred, as a signal icon at an intersection - even a complex one, is the proper rendering for using relative direction and counting “3 signals down is my business”, and other commonly used relative directions in places with no street addressing system. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Proposed_features/Traffic_Signals#rendering_traffic_signals_area_question thanks, Javbw ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Access restrictions for shoulder lanes?
Seems like a combination of parking tags and access tags are in order. Typical restrictions in the US would be emergency stopping only, bicycle=yes, foot=yes unless posted otherwise or, in Oklahoma's case, there's a minimum speed posted... On Feb 2, 2015 8:32 AM, Martin Vonwald imagic@gmail.com wrote: I agree that access=no (or vehicle=no) leads in the right direction, but we are still missing the information that it might be accessed in case of break downs or similar. No? Or don't we care about that? 2015-02-02 15:07 GMT+01:00 Colin Smale colin.sm...@xs4all.nl: Assuming you are talking about the hard shoulder AKA emergency lane on motorways, in NL and GB it would quite simply be access=no. The only exceptions are if you break down, if you are an emergency service, or if you are instructed to by the police (or similar authority). ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Access restrictions for shoulder lanes?
Still the question is unanswered: if, for example, one lane is a emergency/shoulder lane during night and a regular lane during day, how may we map this? access:lanes=yes|yes|now_it_is_a_shoulder @ night access:lanes=yes|yes|yes @ day So what should we use for now_it_is_a_shoulder? Any what about lanes, which are free for motorcycles, but may only be used by cars in case of break-downs. I think something similar to this is valid in spain. best regards, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Lifecycle concepts, REMOVED
2015-01-28 19:25 GMT+01:00 Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org: If there used to be a building but all that is left is a clearing in the forest, then the clearing will be in OSM, and not a building with a lifecycle tag of removed. But what if hikers still refer to the spot? Like Let's go to the burnt alpine hut, and then go left. That is a pretty important landmark, even if there is no sign of the hut any more. Maybe we can tag it as place=locality. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Access restrictions for shoulder lanes?
2015-02-02 15:41 GMT+01:00 Paul Johnson ba...@ursamundi.org: Typical restrictions in the US would be emergency stopping only Yes - and what tag would that be for emergency stopping only? I think that is my main question. Do we have one for that? ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Access restrictions for shoulder lanes?
Now your question is a lot clearer. The highway=motorway already implies that there is two or more lanes plus an emergency hard shoulder, but this does not apply to other highways. The only other tag is the highway=escape which is something completely different. I am not aware of any other tag that may fit your requirement. It would depend on how prevalent this feature is as to whether it is something to consider and whether it will lead to people adding it to motorways as well. On 2 February 2015 at 14:46, Martin Vonwald imagic@gmail.com wrote: 2015-02-02 15:41 GMT+01:00 Paul Johnson ba...@ursamundi.org: Typical restrictions in the US would be emergency stopping only Yes - and what tag would that be for emergency stopping only? I think that is my main question. Do we have one for that? ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Access restrictions for shoulder lanes?
I agree that access=no (or vehicle=no) leads in the right direction, but we are still missing the information that it might be accessed in case of break downs or similar. No? Or don't we care about that? 2015-02-02 15:07 GMT+01:00 Colin Smale colin.sm...@xs4all.nl: Assuming you are talking about the hard shoulder AKA emergency lane on motorways, in NL and GB it would quite simply be access=no. The only exceptions are if you break down, if you are an emergency service, or if you are instructed to by the police (or similar authority). ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Access restrictions for shoulder lanes?
Unfortunately things are changing regarding the Hard Shoulder on UK motorways. During times of congestion the Hard Shoulder is opened up to alleviate some of the problem by allow traffic to use it to get to the next off ramp and leave the motorway. So access=no would only apply some of the time (and certainly would not be accessed by pedestrians or motorcycles at any time time). I assume that Martin is referring to non-motorway roads but does not say which countries may have these. I would suggest that access restrictions may differ from one country to another and the rules that apply to the road in question would be the guideline to the restrictions for that road, and may also be different for another road in a different part of that country. So access=no may not apply to all roads where regular access is allowed. On 2 February 2015 at 14:07, Colin Smale colin.sm...@xs4all.nl wrote: Assuming you are talking about the hard shoulder AKA emergency lane on motorways, in NL and GB it would quite simply be access=no. The only exceptions are if you break down, if you are an emergency service, or if you are instructed to by the police (or similar authority). On 2015-02-02 14:17, Martin Vonwald wrote: Hi! If shoulder lanes are mapped (for whatever reason!), what access restrictions should we apply? A simple vehicle=no doesn't seem right to me. In some countries those lanes may be accessed regularly, e.g. by pedestrians or motorcycles, so foot=yes + motorcycle=yes is obvious, but what would be the access restrictions for all other vehicles? Best regards, Martin ___ Tagging mailing listTagging@openstreetmap.orghttps://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Electronic or 'e' cigarettes?
On 01/02/2015, Tac Tacelosky tac...@gmail.com wrote: Another legitimate terms for these shops is a vape shop, and the practice of using any sort of electronic cigarette is now referred to as vaping. This is a better term than smoking, as the product emits vapors, not smoke. We are enthusiastic about seeing this term standardized, as many jurisdictions do not license or regulate vape shops in the same way they do places that sell cigarettes (and thus e-cigarette is a confusing term). Our research is often about tobacco shops, and vape shops, because they're not licensed, introduce a new wrinkle. vape is not as established as the various forms of electronic_cigarette, I don't think it brings any clarity in the OSM usecase. Off-topic non-OSM: Sellers of electronic cigarettes have been playing a naming game to ensure that they are not classified as tobacco, to avoid the harsh tobacco laws and taxes. But, as less harmfull as this product may be, they're still an addictive nicotin-based drug with unwitting consumers. The legislation really should have started by treating them the same as classic cigarettes and *then* loosen the rules, not the other way around. But the e-cig lobby is visibly still playing the naming game everywhere... ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Draft Additions to camp_site
Done. Thanks .. I knew there was one out there somewhere. I think amenity=dump_station needs to be redone, the reasons for its rejection by some have been outdated by the quoted tags evolving over time making amenity=dump_station essential. . On 2/02/2015 9:29 PM, Dave Swarthout wrote: I like what you've done with this. I would suggest that for waste disposal, i.e., sewage, consider adding amenity=dump_station to the list of optional tags. Although Taginfo shows only about 100 instances of the tag so far (including variations like dump_station=yes/no), Dump Station, etc.) , this term describing a facility for dumping of RV holding tanks is very common in the U.S. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] How to tag a cistern?
On February 1, 2015 3:21:44 AM CST, Warin 61sundow...@gmail.com wrote: On 31/01/2015 10:49 AM, S Volk wrote: Hi, I've been mapping on Africa in HOT tasks and around, I've seen some cisterns, also know that some humanitarian NGOs have made many cisterns on Africa (also water_wells). Question: How to tag a cistern (it seems to be not like what is shown for landuse=reservoir; rather a small man made reservoir, on ground level or escavated, for either natural or treated water)? Or, in addition, since there are tags for man_made=water_well, man_made=water_tower, wouldn't it be worth to have a tag like man_made=cistern? Thank you in advance, regards, Sérgio (user:SergioAJV) svo...@hotmail.com A 'cistern' has a mechanism for keeping a water level stable, commonly used in toilets. And OSM has no tag for that feature (yet). They are connected to a water supply with some pressure behind it. I'd think you want to map the provision of water? If it is 'drinkable' then the generic amenity=drinking_water would suit? If non potable then amenity=watering_place ? If you don't know if it is drinkable then assume not, so use amenity=watering_place ? Maybe add a note ? ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging Once again, we are divided by a common language. In American usage, a cistern is a holding tank for captured rain water, used as an alternative to a well in areas where no city water supply is available. They often take the form of an underground pit with a waterproof lining. -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Darkness cannot drive out darkness: only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate: only love can do that. -- Martin Luther King, Jr. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Access restrictions for shoulder lanes?
On Feb 2, 2015 8:47 AM, Martin Vonwald imagic@gmail.com wrote: 2015-02-02 15:41 GMT+01:00 Paul Johnson ba...@ursamundi.org: Typical restrictions in the US would be emergency stopping only Yes - and what tag would that be for emergency stopping only? I think that is my main question. Do we have one for that? parking:lane=emergency seems like a good value. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - (Obligatory vs., optional cycletracks)
On Mon, Dec 22, 2014 at 8:17 AM, Martin Vonwald imagic@gmail.com wrote: No. If - for example - you need to turn left on the next crossing and the adjacent cycleway is separated from the main road so that it is not possible to turn left from the cycleway, you are allowed to switch to the main road and drive on it in order to turn left. So bicycle=no is never correct in such situation. Un no the applicable segment and put in a turn relation? ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
[Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - traffic_signals (Lukas Schaus)
Hi, I did a major update on my proposal regarding the mapping of traffic signals. All the comments you made, helped me to create an improved version which is much less complicated and still contains all necessary information. It should also be more robust against changes in the underlying mapping. Please tell me what you think about it and keep on commenting. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Traffic_Signals Greets Lukas ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Access restrictions for shoulder lanes?
Am 02.02.2015 um 16:31 schrieb Martin Vonwald: Still the question is unanswered: if, for example, one lane is a emergency/shoulder lane during night and a regular lane during day, how may we map this? access:lanes=yes|yes|now_it_is_a_shoulder @ night access:lanes=yes|yes|yes @ day On the german motorway A 8 southeast of Munich I have seen (and continued): access:lanes=yes|yes|yes|peak_traffic which seems to be a similar concept. So what should we use for now_it_is_a_shoulder? Any what about lanes, which are free for motorcycles, but may only be used by cars in case of break-downs. How's about access:lanes:conditional=$EXPRESSION for more complex phrases? Cheers, Heiko ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Mapping of kids areas
On Mon, Dec 15, 2014 at 5:24 AM, Dmitry Kiselev dkise...@osm.me wrote: Playgrounds almost newer are supervised by any kind of stuff. Kids areas and rooms, in most cases have employees who takes care of kids. Sounds like you're describing the difference between a playground and a day care. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] How to tag a cistern?
On Sun, Feb 1, 2015 at 2:16 PM, John Willis jo...@mac.com wrote: Speaking of cisterns, Does this notion of cistern are reservoirs cover fire cisterns? I think in this case you could use emergency=water_tank [1] regards m [1] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:emergency%3Dwater_tank ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
