Re: [Tagging] How to tag a Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency (US:DMV)
Am 09.06.2015 um 08:12 schrieb Bryce Nesbitt bry...@obviously.com: Maybe pretty it up with a namespace. office=goverment admin_level=4 office:type:california=DMV office=goverment admin_level=4 office:type:massachusetts=RMV name=Massachusetts Registry of Motor Vehicles There's a whole set of assumptions about each type of goverment office that would be impossible to consistently capture with generic tags. I tend to disagree. The details might be different what you can expect at a certain kind of office but that doesn't imply that we have to use different values. e.g a tag like public_office=vehicle_registration could mean DMV in California and RMV in Massachusetts. or vehicle_registration=yes etc. Generally we should avoid abbreviations. cheers Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Self serve and full serve gas stations
2015-06-09 13:07 GMT+02:00 Paul Johnson ba...@ursamundi.org: Everything else being the same (taxes, base fuel price, etc), minimum service is always about 10-15 cents *cheaper* than self service because they're not having to foot the bill for untrained and unknown people handling hazardous materials in a light industrial/retail facility. While I agree that fueling only is minimum service and not full service, around here (Europe) minimum service is always cheaper than self because there is someone who does work for you, while in self you will do it and nobody has to paid for it (there might no even be any staff at the gas station, and you'll pay in advance at a machine). Cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Self serve and full serve gas stations
On Jun 9, 2015, at 8:07 PM, Paul Johnson ba...@ursamundi.org wrote: Everything else being the same (taxes, base fuel price, etc), minimum service is always about 10-15 cents *cheaper* The idea that a human costs less than a credit card reader built in the pump is an intriguing proposition - are people doing an employee’s worth of damage or theft to the facility every day? I’m not saying you are wrong, but this seems counter-intuitive. than self service because they're not having to foot the bill for untrained and unknown people handling hazardous materials in a light industrial/retail facility. Please do not confuse this with full service, as there's typically a 20-30 cent difference between the two. I’ve been pumping my gas since I was 8 - I mastered the gas pump early, so Dad didn’t have to go inside. I had no idea I was a light industrial facilities technician with 25 years experience! ^_^ I’ve been so happy to see the full-service stations in Japan being converted to self-serve to dispense with an unnecessary visit to the cashier. The idea of “minimum service” as a tag value might be a good option: and removal of semicolon fuel:service_minimum=yes fuel:service_self=no fuel:service_full=yes or something Javbw___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] How to tag a Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency (US:DMV)
There's got to be a better way to do this. Oregon, this would be handled by the DMV in rural areas, and the Department of Environmental Quality in the Metro and Lane County regions. In Oklahoma, this would be handled by the Oklahoma Tax Commission, same as you'd get a fishing license. Driver's licenses are similarly weird; Oregon you'd do the whole thing in a Soviet breadline-like marathon at the DMV. Oklahoma, you go to a Department of Public Safety office, and have a reserve state trooper perform your driving test, then you get an 8x11 inch piece of paper that says you're allowed to drive in Oklahoma. If you want to drive in other states, then you go to the Oklahoma Tax Commission and pay the $35 to get the card other states recognize (and can be used as state ID). On Mon, Jun 8, 2015 at 9:48 AM, Andreas Goss andi...@t-online.de wrote: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Driver_and_Vehicle_Licensing_Agency https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Department_of_Motor_Vehicles amenity=driver_vehicle_licensing_agency Seems a bit long and while it's the name of the agency in the UK it also describes what it does very well. Maybe without acency? Using + isn't a good idea, right? amenity=driver_vehicle_licensing Or is there a more general term so we could subtag this in case some countries don't combine it. __ openstreetmap.org/user/AndiG88 wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:AndiG88 ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Self serve and full serve gas stations
On Tue, 2015-06-09 at 06:07 -0500, Paul Johnson wrote: Full service does cost more, because full service typically checks and tops off any fluids you're low on, along with checking your tires and cleaning your windows as part of the price included; and (sometimes, if they're fishing for a bigger tip, since tipping is generally expected at full service islands), cleaning up trash and vacuuming your car, all at no extra charge. I assume they charge for things like oil? A litre of oil is close to the price of a quarter of a tank of fuel, they surely don't give that away free? As for trusting them to put the right oil in. When I started driving there were still a lot of attendant filling stations around, I tended to avoid them as I had a car with a small tank and they never filled it to the level I did for a long journey. Phil (trigpoint) ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Self serve and full serve gas stations
On Mon, Jun 8, 2015 at 12:49 PM, Andrew MacKinnon andrew...@gmail.com wrote: I would like to propose that the tag full_service=yes be used to tag gas stations that are full serve (i.e. an attendant pumps gas, like all gas stations in New Jersey and Oregon). Nope! You're conflating minimum service and full service. Check the signs at the end of the islands: It will be one of four values: CARD (for self-service cardlock only), FULL, SELF or MINI (for minimum service). I honestly cannot remember the last time that I've seen a full service station in New Jersey or Oregon (certainly not in the last decade). Minimum service is the norm (they only pump your gas, and if it's a BP brand, they don't even let you pay at the pump). If it's slow or you get a particularly enthusiastic attendant, you may get more, but at a minimum service island, don't generally expect it. Tips are not expected (you'll legitimately surprise the attendant if you do tip 'em). I can think of places where there's cardlock (I used to be a Pacific Pride member when I was in the transportation industry and had to go through their industrial safety training) and one or two actually open to the public self service stations (on the Warm Springs reservation where Oregon does not have state jurisdiction). Full service does cost more, because full service typically checks and tops off any fluids you're low on, along with checking your tires and cleaning your windows as part of the price included; and (sometimes, if they're fishing for a bigger tip, since tipping is generally expected at full service islands), cleaning up trash and vacuuming your car, all at no extra charge. The tag self_service=yes is already used for gas stations, but some gas stations are both self serve and full serve and charge a higher price for full serve. Thus I think that self_service=no should not be used in the context of gas stations. Everything else being the same (taxes, base fuel price, etc), minimum service is always about 10-15 cents *cheaper* than self service because they're not having to foot the bill for untrained and unknown people handling hazardous materials in a light industrial/retail facility. Please do not confuse this with full service, as there's typically a 20-30 cent difference between the two. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] How to tag a Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency (US:DMV)
2015-06-09 12:27 GMT+02:00 Paul Johnson ba...@ursamundi.org: There's got to be a better way to do this. Oregon, this would be handled by the DMV in rural areas, and the Department of Environmental Quality in the Metro and Lane County regions. In Oklahoma, this would be handled by the Oklahoma Tax Commission, same as you'd get a fishing license. Driver's licenses are similarly weird; Oregon you'd do the whole thing in a Soviet breadline-like marathon at the DMV. Oklahoma, you go to a Department of Public Safety office, and have a reserve state trooper perform your driving test, then you get an 8x11 inch piece of paper that says you're allowed to drive in Oklahoma. If you want to drive in other states, then you go to the Oklahoma Tax Commission and pay the $35 to get the card other states recognize (and can be used as state ID). that's why I suggested to use a multi tag approach. One tag to say it is a government office, one to say at which level (admin level) and then tags for the stuff you can do there (property list) or about the general classification (e.g. tax office, ministry of education, torture agency, ...) cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Self serve and full serve gas stations
On Tue, 2015-06-09 at 13:17 +0200, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: While I agree that fueling only is minimum service and not full service, around here (Europe) minimum service is always cheaper than self because there is someone who does work for you, while in self you will do it and nobody has to paid for it (there might no even be any staff at the gas station, and you'll pay in advance at a machine). In the UK your card is pre-authorised, usually to GBP99, you cannot easily prepay for an unknown amount. The charge to your card is made after you have filled the car, with the amount of fuel you have bought. Phil (trigpoint) ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] How to tag a Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency (US:DMV)
These are very specific government agencies. This may be a place where regionally specific tags work best. Maybe pretty it up with a namespace. office=goverment admin_level=4 office:type:california=DMV office=goverment admin_level=4 office:type:massachusetts=RMV name=Massachusetts Registry of Motor Vehicles There's a whole set of assumptions about each type of goverment office that would be impossible to consistently capture with generic tags. Here the Duck of duck typing says call it by whatever it is known locally. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] How to tag a Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency (US:DMV)
On Jun 9, 2015, at 3:12 PM, Bryce Nesbitt bry...@obviously.com wrote: There's a whole set of assumptions about each type of goverment office that would be impossible to consistently capture with generic tags. Here the Duck of duck typing says call it by whatever it is known locally. I think there is still an umbrella it can fit under, saying it is related to cars and licensing. A place that registers your car and a place that licenses you for driving may be a different facility (or combo), but the government office(s) that handles that can at least have some kind of tag to get put in some kind of group. government=motor_vehicle_admin or civic_admin=motor_vehicle We don’t assume the government is selling cars or car parts, and administration isn’t related to enforcement (tickets/impound), sales, nor maintenance, so it isn’t so ambiguous. and the name will tell the locals the rest. (Liscence Center, Automobile Registration center, Dept of Motor Vehecles, etc) Unless we want to get into the same subcategory system that shop=* should have, and we start documenting specific government facilities (which I wanted to do with civic_admin and landuse=civic). Javbw ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Self storage places
2015-06-09 15:51 GMT+02:00 Andrew MacKinnon andrew...@gmail.com: How do you tag self storage places (e.g. Public Storage, etc.)? It seems like man_made=storage is the most popular tag on taginfo but it is unofficial. This needs to be made formal. I'm not sure that tag is about self storage businesses. man_made=storage_tank has 116.000 occurences, so those 2 354 man_made=storage might describe similar things. I remember therewas once a discussion about this on the tagging ml, but I don't recall the outcome ;-) https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/tagging/2010-December/006000.html From taginfo I find interesting: 2 442 amenity=boat_storage 244 amenity=storage 102 shop=storage_units 59 shop=storage 49 amenity=cold_storage 43 amenity=self_storage 35 service=storage I'd choose amenity=self_storage probably. Cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] How to tag a Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency (US:DMV)
2015-06-09 14:37 GMT+02:00 Paul Johnson ba...@ursamundi.org: How would you tag a shop that sells tax stamps and licenses, but is not a government office, and does not provide other services? The Oklahoma Tax Commission uses such a system throughout the state (authorized tag agents) to save people the hassle of having to drive down to their office on the capitol mall in Oklahoma City. In Italy you can buy tax stamps at the tobacco shop. Your case can be a shop=tax_stamps_and_licenses? How do people call it? Cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] How to tag a Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency (US:DMV)
On Tue Jun 9 16:06:40 2015 GMT+0100, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: 2015-06-09 14:37 GMT+02:00 Paul Johnson ba...@ursamundi.org: How would you tag a shop that sells tax stamps and licenses, but is not a government office, and does not provide other services? The Oklahoma Tax Commission uses such a system throughout the state (authorized tag agents) to save people the hassle of having to drive down to their office on the capitol mall in Oklahoma City. In Italy you can buy tax stamps at the tobacco shop. Your case can be a shop=tax_stamps_and_licenses? How do people call it? Is a tax stamp some sort of vehicle tax? Phil (trigpoint) -- Sent from my Jolla ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] How to tag a Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency (US:DMV)
2015-06-09 17:15 GMT+02:00 p...@trigpoint.me.uk: Is a tax stamp some sort of vehicle tax? you can use them universally for payments of government taxes and fees, typically you have to stick them onto forms or other documents to make them valid. cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Self serve and full serve gas stations
2015-06-09 14:47 GMT+02:00 p...@trigpoint.me.uk: Do they give change? Otherwise how do you know how much to prepay? actually this is just one type of petrol stations, a small typology for the city, there's lots of them, without a roof, it is just a very small cabin and 2 pumps. During business hours there will be someone to give you change, but when operating automatically they don't normally give change, at least not reliably. You won't fill your tank completely with cash, you'd insert something like 20EUR or 50 EUR and use all of it. Like here https://www.google.it/maps/@41.859617,12.500155,3a,75y,206.36h,85.15t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1shnjYQEWoT8GBijw4ExKakA!2e0?hl=en-IT or even smaller https://www.google.it/maps/@41.859685,12.490413,3a,75y,192.24h,85.3t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sDclJUGIRiQ3J5bpNn0DMwg!2e0?hl=en-IT https://www.google.it/maps/@41.859643,12.495109,3a,75y,345.37h,88.25t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sXyzS6plb1IVIQHgTagNCeg!2e0?hl=en-IT https://www.google.it/maps/@41.879031,12.508233,3a,75y,62.34h,91.57t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sH68vfh_LA8GfRMqvtiVRBg!2e0?hl=en-IT Cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] How to tag a Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency (US:DMV)
On Tue Jun 9 16:26:36 2015 GMT+0100, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: you can use them universally for payments of government taxes and fees, typically you have to stick them onto forms or other documents to make them valid. Tax_stamp sounds good, I have never heard of a UK equivalent. Phil (trigpoint) -- Sent from my Jolla ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
[Tagging] Access and area type for some (public) objects
I'd like to ask about access=* values for some objects. 1. First is rather easy - there is fenced area with a few big apartment houses. You can enter only if you have a key or somebody open it. Should the highways inside be tagged with access=private? It's like few hundred people inside, so I just want to make sure what is the best approach. 2. The second question is harder: what with the access to fenced area with some public institutions inside? I think of such places as hospital area - I guess highway=service inside it should be tagged with access=destination (or maybe access=customers? but it sound strange), but what with highway=footway there - there are no gates for pedestrians, so maybe it's just public, so anyone can go through this big area, or maybe access=permissive, because it's just not intended for shortcuts, but nobody will check it? 3. There are also some public offices, where you can get inside with a car only if you are a employee probably - I don't know if clients are allowed or not, but there is a kind of a gate or a lift gate, so there is no entry for cars by default. Of course the footways are not limited. I have also a problem with guessing what landuse is this - like public broadcasting (radio, TV) buildings: is it commercial, because there are offices, or what? Public radio and TV are offices with some commercial activity, but with strong public background. 4. And finally - bus garages for public transport. They can be very large and landuse=industrial is more or less clear for me (this is also public agency, so not entirely clear...). But maybe it is also the amenity=parking space? And what about access there - is it access=private for cars/buses? And what about footways - is it dependent on if you can pass through (and then permissive) or not (and then destination) or it doesn't matter? -- The train is always on time / The trick is to be ready to put your bags down [A. Cohen] ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] How to tag a Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency (US:DMV)
I'm guessing we don't need admin_level with vehicle registration, because it's always the same within a certain country. So let's keep it simple: building=yes + vehicle_registration=yes + driver_licensing=yes. uto, 9. lip 2015. 17:42 p...@trigpoint.me.uk je napisao: On Tue Jun 9 16:26:36 2015 GMT+0100, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: you can use them universally for payments of government taxes and fees, typically you have to stick them onto forms or other documents to make them valid. Tax_stamp sounds good, I have never heard of a UK equivalent. Phil (trigpoint) -- Sent from my Jolla ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Access and area type for some (public) objects
Is there a sign private or residents only or something like that? Then tag it as access=private, or motor_vehicle=private. Is there only a gate or a liftgate with no sign? Just add barrier=liftgate/gate. Access=permisive is a bit tricky, but I wouldn't tag any of your examples with that tag. Janko uto, 9. lip 2015. 19:33 Daniel Koć daniel@koć.pl je napisao: I'd like to ask about access=* values for some objects. 1. First is rather easy - there is fenced area with a few big apartment houses. You can enter only if you have a key or somebody open it. Should the highways inside be tagged with access=private? It's like few hundred people inside, so I just want to make sure what is the best approach. 2. The second question is harder: what with the access to fenced area with some public institutions inside? I think of such places as hospital area - I guess highway=service inside it should be tagged with access=destination (or maybe access=customers? but it sound strange), but what with highway=footway there - there are no gates for pedestrians, so maybe it's just public, so anyone can go through this big area, or maybe access=permissive, because it's just not intended for shortcuts, but nobody will check it? 3. There are also some public offices, where you can get inside with a car only if you are a employee probably - I don't know if clients are allowed or not, but there is a kind of a gate or a lift gate, so there is no entry for cars by default. Of course the footways are not limited. I have also a problem with guessing what landuse is this - like public broadcasting (radio, TV) buildings: is it commercial, because there are offices, or what? Public radio and TV are offices with some commercial activity, but with strong public background. 4. And finally - bus garages for public transport. They can be very large and landuse=industrial is more or less clear for me (this is also public agency, so not entirely clear...). But maybe it is also the amenity=parking space? And what about access there - is it access=private for cars/buses? And what about footways - is it dependent on if you can pass through (and then permissive) or not (and then destination) or it doesn't matter? -- The train is always on time / The trick is to be ready to put your bags down [A. Cohen] ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] How to tag a Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency (US:DMV)
In the USA, how it is handled varies from state to state, so there is at least one country where it isn't uniformly handled on a national level. -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. -- Martin Luther King, Jr. On June 9, 2015 4:03:33 PM Janko Mihelić jan...@gmail.com wrote: I'm guessing we don't need admin_level with vehicle registration, because it's always the same within a certain country. So let's keep it simple: building=yes + vehicle_registration=yes + driver_licensing=yes. uto, 9. lip 2015. 17:42 p...@trigpoint.me.uk je napisao: On Tue Jun 9 16:26:36 2015 GMT+0100, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: you can use them universally for payments of government taxes and fees, typically you have to stick them onto forms or other documents to make them valid. Tax_stamp sounds good, I have never heard of a UK equivalent. Phil (trigpoint) -- Sent from my Jolla ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging -- ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] How to tag a Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency (US:DMV)
I would like to roll town hall into civic_admin, or similar, but realistically i can't, because the tag os so popular. But since almost every single other government agency or service is currently untagged, there is still plenty to be done. Javbw. On Jun 9, 2015, at 10:58 PM, Andreas Goss andi...@t-online.de wrote: What I don't get is why everyone is on this office=government and government=* tag, when even in your proposal most of the stuff that would fall under civic_admin is currently just tagged as amenity. I mean I would not have an issue with a government= tag, but then we would have to be consistent and long term stuff like amenity=townhall should be government=townhall. And the biggest issue as already mentioned a bit further down in the discussion is that there often is no clear line you can draw. In some countries a service is run by the government, in others it's not and sometimes that's even the case within a country. On 6/9/15 08:48 , johnw wrote: On Jun 9, 2015, at 3:12 PM, Bryce Nesbitt bry...@obviously.com wrote: There's a whole set of assumptions about each type of goverment office that would be impossible to consistently capture with generic tags. Here the Duck of duck typing says call it by whatever it is known locally. I think there is still an umbrella it can fit under, saying it is related to cars and licensing. A place that registers your car and a place that licenses you for driving may be a different facility (or combo), but the government office(s) that handles that can at least have some kind of tag to get put in some kind of group. government=motor_vehicle_admin or civic_admin=motor_vehicle We don’t assume the government is selling cars or car parts, and administration isn’t related to enforcement (tickets/impound), sales, nor maintenance, so it isn’t so ambiguous. and the name will tell the locals the rest. (Liscence Center, Automobile Registration center, Dept of Motor Vehecles, etc) Unless we want to get into the same subcategory system that shop=* should have, and we start documenting specific government facilities (which I wanted to do with civic_admin and landuse=civic). Javbw ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging -- __ openstreetmap.org/user/AndiG88 wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:AndiG88 ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] How to tag a Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency (US:DMV)
Also in the U.K. as Northern Ireland had its own system. On 9 June 2015 23:13:55 CEST, John Eldredge j...@jfeldredge.com wrote: In the USA, how it is handled varies from state to state, so there is at least one country where it isn't uniformly handled on a national level. -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. -- Martin Luther King, Jr. On June 9, 2015 4:03:33 PM Janko Mihelić jan...@gmail.com wrote: I'm guessing we don't need admin_level with vehicle registration, because it's always the same within a certain country. So let's keep it simple: building=yes + vehicle_registration=yes + driver_licensing=yes. uto, 9. lip 2015. 17:42 p...@trigpoint.me.uk je napisao: On Tue Jun 9 16:26:36 2015 GMT+0100, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: you can use them universally for payments of government taxes and fees, typically you have to stick them onto forms or other documents to make them valid. Tax_stamp sounds good, I have never heard of a UK equivalent. Phil (trigpoint) -- Sent from my Jolla ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging -- ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - Donation
Honestly I don't think it's such a good idea to start voting 1 year later when there wasn't an ongoing discussion. I'm not sure about amenity=donation when some things are very different. I also feel like bood_bank, sperm_bank (do we want to tag those?) and amenity=social facility would cover most of it and there are other like shop=charity etc. So we already have a lot of POIs where you could just add donation:*=yes. With that in mind limiting the prosoal to those few tags also makes little sense, might as well use healthcare=donations then. donation:facility=mobile makes no sense as we don't tag this. At best this could be some HOT tag. donation:facility=hospital why not just tag it on the hospital? donation:facility=dedicated I would say that's exactly what amenity=donation should be. And then I don't understand why you do donation=blood, but then blood:plasma=, blood:whole= etc. Why not donation:blood=yes? On 6/10/15 00:29 , Ruben Maes wrote: Hello A year ago I started a proposal for donation facilities, covering everything from blood donation centres to clothes containers. Since then I've limited it to blood and other body products. I'd like to start the voting process now: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Donation Kind regards Ruben, aka M!dgard 2014-06-06 23:55 GMT+02:00 Ruben ruben.mae...@gmail.com: Hello everyone I created a proposal for all kinds of donation facilities (like donation of clothes or blood): https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Donation Kind regards Ruben aka M!dgard ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging -- __ openstreetmap.org/user/AndiG88 wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:AndiG88 ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] How to tag a Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency (US:DMV)
Using one global scheme could make rendering easier, but muddy the meaning of the place. Usnig regional schemes would match map reader expectations, but likely lag in terms of rendering support and processnig support. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] How to tag a Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency (US:DMV)
Sent from my iPhone On Jun 10, 2015, at 12:15 AM, p...@trigpoint.me.uk wrote: On Tue Jun 9 16:06:40 2015 GMT+0100, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: 2015-06-09 14:37 GMT+02:00 Paul Johnson ba...@ursamundi.org: How would you tag a shop that sells tax stamps and licenses, but is not a government office, and does not provide other services? The Oklahoma Tax Commission uses such a system throughout the state (authorized tag agents) to save people the hassle of having to drive down to their office on the capitol mall in Oklahoma City. In Italy you can buy tax stamps at the tobacco shop. Your case can be a shop=tax_stamps_and_licenses? How do people call it? Is a tax stamp some sort of vehicle tax? I imagine it is either the governmental revenue stamp, or the seal that goes on the car itself. In CA, you need to go to the DMV for the tags (if not by mail) and pay with money. I guess i have seen storefronts that do it too... In Japan, almost any government service - or some kind of fee for a service performed (license renewal, visa application, etc) are paid for by buying stamps, (sometimes for large amounts) and then sticking them on the application for the service in the right place. This separates the people handling the forms from the people handling money. Usually most government offices (city halls, regional capitals) have a convenience store inside that sells food for lunch and these stamps. But The *office* that *administrates* the program is not the store, nor the authorized agents in Oklahoma - it is some office or building in a government facility. Im interested in mapping government and civic agency buildings that run (administer) public programs. If a shop sells vehicle tags, great - lets set up a vending item or something - but they do not (AFAIK) administer the program. If you have a paperwork problem or a grievance, i bet you have to go to the main office. I had to have my car smog checked in California at a smog check shop (~$50), and I have to have my Japanese car inspected and have mandatory service at a local shop every two years ($800USD) - but these people are not where the program is administered - just as a place that sells hot dogs is not a hot dog factory. This is the difference between mapping the amenity and mapping the buildings. I want to map the hot dog factory. You guys are talking about mapping all the places to buy hot dogs. Perhaps we need both ^_^ Javbw ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Node objects in tunnels or on bridges?
On 9/06/2015 11:27 PM, Richard wrote: BTW I hope you don't tag all bridges with level=-1 in real world mapping??? From http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:layer /Ways passing above other ways on a bridge will have a//* higher layer value*//,/ /ways passing in tunnels below other ways will have//*lower (negative) values*//./ /All ways without an explicit value are assumed to have layer 0./ All the bridges I have tagged are layer =1 or more. None Of the bridges I have tagged are 'indoor' (so far) so a level tag is not used as in NOT required. level=-1 is lower than level=0 or level =1 See http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:level and note the words /For typical street and freeway crossings with bridges//layer http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:layer=*// should be used instead./ yes, that is logical. It would require adding the information whether it is right or left from the center of the road and renderers and other tools learning how to cope with it. Does it work in practice? As the node for the object (bin, light etc) should not be on the road (as it is not) the information for the render is already there. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
[Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - Donation
Hello A year ago I started a proposal for donation facilities, covering everything from blood donation centres to clothes containers. Since then I've limited it to blood and other body products. I'd like to start the voting process now: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Donation Kind regards Ruben, aka M!dgard 2014-06-06 23:55 GMT+02:00 Ruben ruben.mae...@gmail.com: Hello everyone I created a proposal for all kinds of donation facilities (like donation of clothes or blood): https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Donation Kind regards Ruben aka M!dgard ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Access and area type for some (public) objects
Daniel Koć dan...@xn--ko-wla.pl writes: 1. First is rather easy - there is fenced area with a few big apartment houses. You can enter only if you have a key or somebody open it. Should the highways inside be tagged with access=private? It's like few hundred people inside, so I just want to make sure what is the best approach. Barriers are about what is possible, and access is about what is permitted. This case is pretty clearly private property to which the public does not have right of access (so not =yes), and pretty clearly it is not generally allowed by the owner for the public to wander through (so not =permissive). So yes, access=private sounds right. There's a messier question about access=destination. Strictly, this means that members of the public can use the way if they are trying to go to a location only reasoanbly accessible on the way, but that doesn't sound right in this case. 2. The second question is harder: what with the access to fenced area with some public institutions inside? I think of such places as hospital area - I guess highway=service inside it should be tagged with access=destination (or maybe access=customers? but it sound strange), but what with highway=footway there - there are no gates for pedestrians, so maybe it's just public, so anyone can go through this big area, or maybe access=permissive, because it's just not intended for shortcuts, but nobody will check it? If there's no legal right to use the ways, it should be at most access=permissive. If there are no fences for pedestrians, and no no trespassing signs, then access=permissive sounds right. Same for the service roads. If there is a sign prohibiting use except for going to the hospital, or some law/regulation that more or less says that, then use access=destination, else permissive. 3. There are also some public offices, where you can get inside with a car only if you are a employee probably - I don't know if clients are allowed or not, but there is a kind of a gate or a lift gate, so there is no entry for cars by default. Of course the footways are not limited. I have also a problem with guessing what landuse is this - like public broadcasting (radio, TV) buildings: is it commercial, because there are offices, or what? Public radio and TV are offices with some commercial activity, but with strong public background. A basically commercial entity run by or funded by the government is still commercial, I'd say. 4. And finally - bus garages for public transport. They can be very large and landuse=industrial is more or less clear for me (this is also public agency, so not entirely clear...). But maybe it is also again, use is more important than government ownership. the amenity=parking space? And what about access there - is it access=private for cars/buses? I would avoid tagging amenity=parking if it's for storage of buses belonging to the transportation agency. amenity=parking has the connotation of providing a place to leave one's car while doing something. And what about footways - is it dependent on if you can pass through (and then permissive) or not (and then destination) or it doesn't matter? If people can really walk on the footways, there are no signs saying not to, and essentially never get hassled by guards then it is permissive. (I would find that surprising in a facility like you describe, at least around me.) If the police can't properly tell you not to walk on the footway, even as a shortcut, then it's access=yes. pgpO0tV_PKecH.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] How to tag a Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency (US:DMV)
Sent from my iPhone On Jun 10, 2015, at 12:40 AM, p...@trigpoint.me.uk wrote: On Tue Jun 9 16:26:36 2015 GMT+0100, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: you can use them universally for payments of government taxes and fees, typically you have to stick them onto forms or other documents to make them valid. Tax_stamp sounds good, I have never heard of a UK equivalent. The name for them is revenue_stamp http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revenue_stamp Tax is a surcharge on another service (sales tax) - this for a fee paid directly for a service - which is revenue for the government agency accepting the money. It is also proof that a fee has been paid (you have the stamp!) so they are sometimes affixed to non-paperwork objects (alcohol bottles,etc) to prove that the proper payment has been made to the proper agency regulating the good before sale - where sales tax would then be applied. Javbw. Phil (trigpoint) -- Sent from my Jolla ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] How to tag a Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency (US:DMV)
What's the difference in handling? When you register your car in Oregon, you can drive it across the USA. For cases when you can only get a drivers license for inside Oregon we can use: driver_licensing=yes + driver_licensing:admin_level=4 uto, 9. lip 2015. 23:15 John Eldredge j...@jfeldredge.com je napisao: In the USA, how it is handled varies from state to state, so there is at least one country where it isn't uniformly handled on a national level. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Self serve and full serve gas stations
On Jun 9, 2015, at 9:25 PM, Paul Johnson ba...@ursamundi.org wrote: P brands (Arco, Amoco, BP, Aral, am/pm, Wild Bean) usually make you go inside anyway and don't let you pay at the pump. A long time ago the self pumps were crap - but i have never seen pufdles of fuel anywhere. Now basically 95% of pumps in California are self, open 24/7, and pay at the pump with a card reader or RFID token. At night there no attendants at many places. Everyone is very comfortable putting gas in the car, and with a vapor recovery system mandatory (on gasoline cars) not even the fumes escape when fueling, let alone liquid. They are pretty damn clean. In Japan, Self is very popular, and similarly very clean - though as a californian, the lack of vapor recovery means filling up the tank causes it to shoot sninky vapor out around the nozzle - so they have plastic gloves and a little towel for you there - rather than making the cars have a vapor recovery system. Maybe in places where self is second rate, people have trouble or cause spills, but i think most Californians could be considered gas station attendants Javbw ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] How to tag a Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency (US:DMV)
On 6/9/15 5:48 PM, John Eldredge wrote: The department that issues drivers' licenses varies from state to state. The rules dividing regular drivers' licenses from specialized licenses, such as restricted licenses for minors, commercial licenses (needed to drive a vehicle for hire, and/or various large vehicles), and motorcycle licenses, vary from state to state. Some states have the same department handle both vehicle licenses and drivers' licenses, some don't. and the states have reciprocity agreements to recognize each other's licenses. the map of reciprocity agreements is complete, but there was a time when it wasn't. as near as i can tell, many/most Canadian provinces have agreements with the various states as well. richard -- rwe...@averillpark.net Averill Park Networking - GIS IT Consulting OpenStreetMap - PostgreSQL - Linux Java - Web Applications - Search signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Self serve and full serve gas stations
On Tue, Jun 9, 2015 at 6:55 AM, Philip Barnes p...@trigpoint.me.uk wrote: On Tue, 2015-06-09 at 06:07 -0500, Paul Johnson wrote: Full service does cost more, because full service typically checks and tops off any fluids you're low on, along with checking your tires and cleaning your windows as part of the price included; and (sometimes, if they're fishing for a bigger tip, since tipping is generally expected at full service islands), cleaning up trash and vacuuming your car, all at no extra charge. I assume they charge for things like oil? A litre of oil is close to the price of a quarter of a tank of fuel, they surely don't give that away free? It's included in the cost. Full service is usually a loss leader while you go inside and grab some food or drop kids off at the pool. As for trusting them to put the right oil in. At least on vehicles built in my lifetime, it's said the right oil either on the filler cap, on a label stuck to the inside of the hood, or both. When I started driving there were still a lot of attendant filling stations around, I tended to avoid them as I had a car with a small tank and they never filled it to the level I did for a long journey. Some jockeys do better than others. BP jockeys usually are minimum wage slackjaws who will spill if you have an awkward tank (I know one Jeep owner who lives in Oregon and is furious about this, even though he refuses to go someplace that actually pays people to know what they're doing, join a cardlock, buy a vehicle that isn't so prone to overfill, or move someplace that has self-service; I honestly think he likes being angry about this). On the other hand, Phillips 66 and Flying J attendants tend to have a laser-like aim for getting as many last pennies in there as they possibly can without going over (they'd be deadly on The Price Is Right). Don't rightly have experience with other brands of minimum service stations, as they tend to be premium (Shell, Texaco) and I really can't see the point in paying more for a name on something I'm going to have a machine set fire to... ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] How to tag a Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency (US:DMV)
On Tue, Jun 9, 2015 at 6:12 AM, Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: 2015-06-09 12:27 GMT+02:00 Paul Johnson ba...@ursamundi.org: There's got to be a better way to do this. Oregon, this would be handled by the DMV in rural areas, and the Department of Environmental Quality in the Metro and Lane County regions. In Oklahoma, this would be handled by the Oklahoma Tax Commission, same as you'd get a fishing license. Driver's licenses are similarly weird; Oregon you'd do the whole thing in a Soviet breadline-like marathon at the DMV. Oklahoma, you go to a Department of Public Safety office, and have a reserve state trooper perform your driving test, then you get an 8x11 inch piece of paper that says you're allowed to drive in Oklahoma. If you want to drive in other states, then you go to the Oklahoma Tax Commission and pay the $35 to get the card other states recognize (and can be used as state ID). that's why I suggested to use a multi tag approach. One tag to say it is a government office, one to say at which level (admin level) and then tags for the stuff you can do there (property list) or about the general classification (e.g. tax office, ministry of education, torture agency, ...) How would you tag a shop that sells tax stamps and licenses, but is not a government office, and does not provide other services? The Oklahoma Tax Commission uses such a system throughout the state (authorized tag agents) to save people the hassle of having to drive down to their office on the capitol mall in Oklahoma City. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] How to tag a Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency (US:DMV)
On Tue, 2015-06-09 at 07:37 -0500, Paul Johnson wrote: The Oklahoma Tax Commission uses such a system throughout the state (authorized tag agents) to save people the hassle of having to drive down to their office on the capitol mall in Oklahoma City. Texas does the same thing (allows e.g. grocery store courtesy booths to issue tag renewals), except in this case it's to avoid a long line at the county courthouse who would otherwise handle it. -- Shawn K. Quinn skqu...@rushpost.com ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Self serve and full serve gas stations
2015-06-09 13:48 GMT+02:00 Philip Barnes p...@trigpoint.me.uk: While I agree that fueling only is minimum service and not full service, around here (Europe) minimum service is always cheaper than self because there is someone who does work for you, while in self you will do it and nobody has to paid for it (there might no even be any staff at the gas station, and you'll pay in advance at a machine). In the UK your card is pre-authorised, usually to GBP99, you cannot easily prepay for an unknown amount. The charge to your card is made after you have filled the car, with the amount of fuel you have bought. payment in advance is possible with GCHQ-save cash as well, no compromising plastic needed ;-) Cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Self serve and full serve gas stations
On Tue, Jun 9, 2015 at 6:53 AM, johnw jo...@mac.com wrote: On Jun 9, 2015, at 8:07 PM, Paul Johnson ba...@ursamundi.org wrote: Everything else being the same (taxes, base fuel price, etc), minimum service is always about 10-15 cents *cheaper* The idea that a human costs less than a credit card reader built in the pump is an intriguing proposition - are people doing an employee’s worth of damage or theft to the facility every day? I’m not saying you are wrong, but this seems counter-intuitive. I imagine the environmental fines and regular cleanups have to add up. I'm pretty well travelled in the US, and the only stations I haven't seen puddles of spilled fuel somewhere are either closed, cardlock-only, or don't have self service. That's not good for air quality, fire safety or groundwater contamination (and also the three reasons why both the Oregon Department of Environmental Quality and the Oregon State Fire Marshall independently ban the practice in that state). than self service because they're not having to foot the bill for untrained and unknown people handling hazardous materials in a light industrial/retail facility. Please do not confuse this with full service, as there's typically a 20-30 cent difference between the two. I’ve been pumping my gas since I was 8 - I mastered the gas pump early, so Dad didn’t have to go inside. I had no idea I was a light industrial facilities technician with 25 years experience! ^_^ It's not that it's hard work, it's what to do in case of an accidental release. I’ve been so happy to see the full-service stations in Japan being converted to self-serve to dispense with an unnecessary visit to the cashier. BP brands (Arco, Amoco, BP, Aral, am/pm, Wild Bean) usually make you go inside anyway and don't let you pay at the pump. They want you to go inside and buy a rancid burrito out from under a hot lamp for five times what you'd buy it for from a grocery store's freezer case. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Self serve and full serve gas stations
On Tue, Jun 9, 2015 at 7:23 AM, Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: 2015-06-09 13:48 GMT+02:00 Philip Barnes p...@trigpoint.me.uk: While I agree that fueling only is minimum service and not full service, around here (Europe) minimum service is always cheaper than self because there is someone who does work for you, while in self you will do it and nobody has to paid for it (there might no even be any staff at the gas station, and you'll pay in advance at a machine). In the UK your card is pre-authorised, usually to GBP99, you cannot easily prepay for an unknown amount. The charge to your card is made after you have filled the car, with the amount of fuel you have bought. payment in advance is possible with GCHQ-save cash as well, no compromising plastic needed ;-) One trick I've used when I've been tight on money in the past is to use my QT QuikStart card to turn on the pump and then run inside to pay with a card, since then the card will get run at the exact value of the total instead of preauthorizing for a c-note. Kum Go is on the Honor System (welcome to Oklahoma, folks!), in which you have the option of just pressing Pay Inside to turn on the pump (which I've done if I'm going to use Google Wallet, since their pumps don't have NFC readers yet). ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Self serve and full serve gas stations
On Tue Jun 9 13:23:05 2015 GMT+0100, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: 2015-06-09 13:48 GMT+02:00 Philip Barnes p...@trigpoint.me.uk: While I agree that fueling only is minimum service and not full service, around here (Europe) minimum service is always cheaper than self because there is someone who does work for you, while in self you will do it and nobody has to paid for it (there might no even be any staff at the gas station, and you'll pay in advance at a machine). In the UK your card is pre-authorised, usually to GBP99, you cannot easily prepay for an unknown amount. The charge to your card is made after you have filled the car, with the amount of fuel you have bought. payment in advance is possible with GCHQ-save cash as well, no compromising plastic needed ;-) Why worry, the ANPR cameras will get you anyway. Do they give change? Otherwise how do you know how much to prepay? My own car I have an idea, within 4 litres but when filling a hire car (which must be returned full), I haven't a clue. Phil (trigpoint) -- Sent from my Jolla ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - Donation
On 10/06/2015 9:58 AM, Andreas Goss wrote: Honestly I don't think it's such a good idea to start voting 1 year later when there wasn't an ongoing discussion. The reverse of rush to voting ? I see no reason to wait with nothing happening after some time of the RFC stage. Others may disagree, some say some time for 'experimentation .. ok if you want that do it in the draft stage. And then I don't understand why you do donation=blood, but then blood:plasma=, blood:whole= etc. Why not donation:blood=yes? A person cannot donate blood plasma .. they donate whole blood and the plasma is separated out later? So the donation is blood, what gets used from that donation is a later process, similar to cloths .. some get used as rags others as clothing. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - Donation
On 10/06/2015 11:07 AM, Warin wrote: On 10/06/2015 9:58 AM, Andreas Goss wrote: Honestly I don't think it's such a good idea to start voting 1 year later when there wasn't an ongoing discussion. The reverse of rush to voting ? I see no reason to wait with nothing happening after some time of the RFC stage. Others may disagree, some say some time for 'experimentation .. ok if you want that, do it in the draft stage. Comma added for clarity above. And then I don't understand why you do donation=blood, but then blood:plasma=, blood:whole= etc. Why not donation:blood=yes? A person cannot donate blood plasma .. they donate whole blood and the plasma is separated out later? So the donation is blood, what gets used from that donation is a later process, similar to cloths .. some get used as rags others as clothing. Ok .. I'm wrong there.. you can donate just blood plasma. Not normal practice here for donations. A normal blood donation is whole blood. But maybe in other places they do plasma only? -- The key:value over laps greatly with other donation facilities .. may be amenity=medical_donation would help separate it? - Mapping mobile things is generally not done ... and you have no example for this ... using opening_hours ... would mean there is a fixed schedule for example opening_hours=week 34 Mo-We 09:00-12:00 It would be 'nice' to show such an example on the proposal page. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
[Tagging] Self storage places
How do you tag self storage places (e.g. Public Storage, etc.)? It seems like man_made=storage is the most popular tag on taginfo but it is unofficial. This needs to be made formal. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] How to tag a Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency (US:DMV)
What I don't get is why everyone is on this office=government and government=* tag, when even in your proposal most of the stuff that would fall under civic_admin is currently just tagged as amenity. I mean I would not have an issue with a government= tag, but then we would have to be consistent and long term stuff like amenity=townhall should be government=townhall. And the biggest issue as already mentioned a bit further down in the discussion is that there often is no clear line you can draw. In some countries a service is run by the government, in others it's not and sometimes that's even the case within a country. On 6/9/15 08:48 , johnw wrote: On Jun 9, 2015, at 3:12 PM, Bryce Nesbitt bry...@obviously.com wrote: There's a whole set of assumptions about each type of goverment office that would be impossible to consistently capture with generic tags. Here the Duck of duck typing says call it by whatever it is known locally. I think there is still an umbrella it can fit under, saying it is related to cars and licensing. A place that registers your car and a place that licenses you for driving may be a different facility (or combo), but the government office(s) that handles that can at least have some kind of tag to get put in some kind of group. government=motor_vehicle_admin or civic_admin=motor_vehicle We don’t assume the government is selling cars or car parts, and administration isn’t related to enforcement (tickets/impound), sales, nor maintenance, so it isn’t so ambiguous. and the name will tell the locals the rest. (Liscence Center, Automobile Registration center, Dept of Motor Vehecles, etc) Unless we want to get into the same subcategory system that shop=* should have, and we start documenting specific government facilities (which I wanted to do with civic_admin and landuse=civic). Javbw ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging -- __ openstreetmap.org/user/AndiG88 wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:AndiG88 ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Node objects in tunnels or on bridges?
On Mon, Jun 08, 2015 at 07:10:08PM +0200, André Pirard wrote: On 2015-06-08 13:29, Richard wrote : Hi, quite often there are node-type objects on bridges or in tunnels. What to do with them? Tunnel or bridge tags are dfined only for ways. In my mind: bridges are piece of concrete below the roads (tarmac) and hence should be tagged at level=-1 they should not split the road but be overlaid as in the real world, rendered with two stripes extending on both sides of the road, look at an aerial photo of a bridge; but it wouldn't hurt if the renderer decided to make it artificially more apparent they may have their own attributes, like a name, without overwriting those of the road There is man_made=bridge for this purpose. For the time being the ways running across the bridge still need to be split and marked with layer bridge but hopefully this requirement will go away sometime in the future: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Simplify_man_made%3Dbridge_mapping For small bridges represented by a single line however, overlaying the bridge over the road would cause more complications than it would solve. BTW I hope you don't tag all bridges with level=-1 in real world mapping??? streams and rivers repeatedly pass under bridges and culverts and there is no good reason to have them step up and down on each occasion they should be tagged at level=-2 full length we have had this discussion before. Change of layer does not mean change of elevation in real world. For technical reasons it is not desirable to tag overtly long objects with layer: if the object extends beyond your editing area/the data you have downloaded there is no way your tools could verify whether it creates a layer conflict somehwere far outside your editing area. Since there are other objects in the database assigned with layer=-2 you wil sooner or later create such conflicts. culverts should be tagged at level=-1 so in your view the waterway would step up to flow through the culvert? And the consequences regarding what you ask is that the objects, like waste bins, are not necessarily on the bridge or in the tunnel but can simply be on the road. Isn't that getting logical? yes, that is logical. It would require adding the information whether it is right or left from the center of the road and renderers and other tools learning how to cope with it. Does it work in practice? But it would be possible to hang them on tunnel walls as tunnels shouldn't be ways but different objects (as another logical consequence). man_made=tunnel in analogy to man_made=bridge anyone? There is also http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Relations/Proposed/Bridges_and_Tunnels which may be unnecessary complicated for many purposes. Avoiding splits, especially for streams and rivers, is a help for Nominatim to not show tiny pieces of ways (1). unfortunately there are milions of reasons other than bridges/tunnels why people split ways. Presumably all the parts of the ways could be collected in relations which is mostly done with waterway relations but for other ways most people think that the tools (like nominatim) should cope with way fragments as they are now. (1) and the final step towards avoiding splits would be my OVERLAY aka SEGMENT proposition, but there's never been a reply to this message. haven't noticed this proposal. Richard ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - Donation
Warin 61sundow...@gmail.com Wrote in message: Ok .. I'm wrong there.. you can donate just blood plasma. Not normal practice here for donations. A normal blood donation is whole blood. But maybe in other places they do plasma only? Plasma only is common in Germany, at least in Aachen. We have blood donation fully integrated in Healthcare 2.0 as far as I remember. I do not see the need for a separate tag proposal. -- Holger Android NewsGroup Reader http://usenet.sinaapp.com/ ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
