Re: [Tagging] Deprecating of leisure=common and leisure=village_green

[Marc Zoutendijk]

> From: Marc Gemis 

> Village green is translated literally in Dutch as gemeentegroen
> (village = gemeente, green=groen), which is just any small patch of
> grass, bushes, flowers, trees inside a town near a road.

“near a road” is a rather useless addition as almost every object within a 
village is near a road!


Marc.



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Re: [Tagging] Deprecating of leisure=common and leisure=village_green

[Marc Zoutendijk]

From: Tom Pfeifer mailto:t.pfei...@computer.org>>


> On 07.12.2017 17:34, Marc Zoutendijk wrote:
> 
>> Especially with regard to village_green it is striking to see how many 
>> mappers in the UK have used 
>> this tag "_against_ the original definition.”  
> Do you have proof that it was UK mappers who did that, and not somebody 
> armchair painting green on 
> the map, from elsewhere?
> 


This mapper:
http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Chris%20Parker 

seems a UK mapper to me and with a good track record of over 9000 changesets.
He mapped _every_ roundabout on this square as a village_green:
http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/tEk 


I have created an overpass for the village_green tag (with a color stylesheet).
Currently it finds everything in the UK, but is easily to change to find other 
countries.
http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/tEe 


>> Making the tag village_green a useless tag (in the 
>> sense of that wiki) anyway.
> 
> Not if we clear the situation now.
> 

+1

>> Anyway, another mapper has removed the pictures from the wiki.
> 
> No, they are on the talk page now.

The person who “moved” the pictures did not say where he moved them…
I contacted him on his talk page an he explained what he had done.
It is ok with me.

> 
>> Thanks for this nice form of cooperation without any discussion at all.
> 
> You are wrong, it was discussed in the wiki since March 2017 (after you added 
> the pictures on the 
> feature page in February), and recently in this list.
> 

You misunderstand me here, I objected to moving those pictures without 
disccussing _that_ with me first.
And talking about discussion: it was already discussed on this mailing list 
before I added the pictures to the wiki:
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/tagging/2017-January/030788.html 


And because it’s use outside of the UK seems to me not possible (or even 
allowed) because of legal consequences, someone should tell the Spanish mappers 
they have to fix something:
http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/tEq 

Or the mappers in Belgium:
http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/tEr 

Earlier in this discussion I wrote: “do we need another year”?
I think we do!

Marc.








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Re: [Tagging] Deprecating of leisure=common and leisure=village_green

[Andy Townsend]

On 08/12/2017 13:05, Marc Zoutendijk wrote:


This mapper:

...

Before we get too far down the line of geographical 
guilt-by-association, think how much more tidying UK-based mappers will 
have had to do :)


To be fair though, I certainly wouldn't have got around to trying to map 
the buildings properly in the small town nearest me if they hadn't 
mapped the buildings (not very well) first.


Best Regards,

Andy


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Re: [Tagging] "building=college" tag missing from building key page

[Vao Matua]

On Thu, Dec 7, 2017 at 3:08 PM, Steve Doerr wrote:

   On 07/12/2017 18:31, Marco Boeringa wrote:

>  College, as Vao Matua also pointed out, usually refers to secondary
> school / high school age education
>

Not in the UK, I'm afraid. It tends to refer to adult education of one
form or another. Or else an alternative to school for 17-to-18-year-olds
('sixth-form college').

Steve,

My point was that the term College in *Samoa* refers to secondary school /
high school age education. Not a statement about the use in all countries,
thanks for helping me understand the UK meaning.
Presently I am an instructor at a tertiary education institution that is
called a college.
All this is to say that the term "college" like many other terms has varied
meanings to different people.

On Thu, Dec 7, 2017 at 3:08 PM, Steve Doerr  wrote:

> On 07/12/2017 18:31, Marco Boeringa wrote:
>
>> College, as Vao Matua also pointed out, usually refers to secondary
>> school / high school age education
>>
>
> Not in the UK, I'm afraid. It tends to refer to adult education of one
> form or another. Or else an alternative to school for 17-to-18-year-olds
> ('sixth-form college').
>
> --
> Steve
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>
>
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Re: [Tagging] "building=college" tag missing from building key page

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> On 7. Dec 2017, at 19:31, Marco Boeringa  wrote:
> 
> Anyway, no tagging scheme for education will ever be perfect, the differences 
> between individual countries and the usage of specific terminology is vast.


while this is true, choosing good names for the tags still helps in reducing 
misunderstandings. “college” for example is not a very clear term for use on 
global scale, because it can mean different things in different places / 
context. Something more abstract like secondary_school or different words like 
vocational school or professional school, which describe a concept, would IMHO 
be better than college.

cheers,
Martin 
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Re: [Tagging] "building=college" tag missing from building key page

[Colin Smale]

This is why the ISCED codes exist: 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Standard_Classification_of_Education#ISCED_2011_levels,_categories,_and_sub-categories


They are already used in OSM: 

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/ISCED 

So the original enquiry can be addressed with building=school and
isced:level=*

On 2017-12-08 22:30, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:

> sent from a phone
> 
>> On 7. Dec 2017, at 19:31, Marco Boeringa  wrote:
>> 
>> Anyway, no tagging scheme for education will ever be perfect, the 
>> differences between individual countries and the usage of specific 
>> terminology is vast.
> 
> while this is true, choosing good names for the tags still helps in reducing 
> misunderstandings. "college" for example is not a very clear term for use on 
> global scale, because it can mean different things in different places / 
> context. Something more abstract like secondary_school or different words 
> like vocational school or professional school, which describe a concept, 
> would IMHO be better than college.
> 
> cheers,
> Martin 
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Re: [Tagging] "building=college" tag missing from building key page

[Marco Boeringa]

Colin and others,

I think we have drifted a bit off of the original topic, my "original 
enquiry" was the notion that the "building=college" tag, with 15k uses, 
was not included on the building key page, and if it would be a good 
idea to include it.


From there, there was discussion about landuse of schools, which IMO is 
already covered by "amenity=school/college/university", as the Wiki 
pages for these features have now for years stated that the entire 
(campus) grounds should be tagged amenity=x, while the actual buildings 
on there should use building=x (e.g. 
building=school/university/"college??" or more appropriate tag if e.g. a 
building=office)


And than we landed on the meaning of the vague term "college"...

I think, as the OP, I will personally leave it at this. With my first 
post, I just wanted to note the apparent disparity with the existing 
building=school/university. But it is not a big thing to me.


Marco


Op 8-12-2017 om 22:51 schreef Colin Smale:


This is why the ISCED codes exist:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Standard_Classification_of_Education#ISCED_2011_levels,_categories,_and_sub-categories

They are already used in OSM:

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/ISCED

So the original enquiry can be addressed with building=school and 
isced:level=*



On 2017-12-08 22:30, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:




sent from a phone

On 7. Dec 2017, at 19:31, Marco Boeringa > wrote:


Anyway, no tagging scheme for education will ever be perfect, the 
differences between individual countries and the usage of specific 
terminology is vast.



while this is true, choosing good names for the tags still helps in 
reducing misunderstandings. "college" for example is not a very clear 
term for use on global scale, because it can mean different things in 
different places / context. Something more abstract like 
secondary_school or different words like vocational school or 
professional school, which describe a concept, would IMHO be better 
than college.


cheers,
Martin
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