[Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - building:soft_storey

[Stefano Maffulli]

Thanks to all who contributed to refine the proposal. I addressed all 
the concerns raised on the talk page on on the mailing list. I opened 
the voting phase today on


https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_featur/building:soft_storey

Definition: a type of construction where any one floor is significantly 
more flexible (less stiff) than those above and below it


Please cast your vote! Thank you,
Stefano

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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - building:soft_storey

[Stefano Maffulli]

On 2/3/19 3:13 AM, marc marc wrote:
if the goal is to define the seismic quality of a building, 


That's not the goal. The goal is to have an easy way to identify 
buildings that are more likely to require attention in the immediate 
aftermath of an earthquake.



wouldn't it
be better to have a more meaningful tag that allows to have more than a
binary value?
maybe prexifed with seismic_quality in stead of building in order to be
able to extend this in the future to bridges or other critical objects
if some contributors see an interest in it.
I mentioned this on the talk page: I think this can be valuable but it's 
a separate project. Evaluating seismic quality of any structure needs to 
be done by professionals.


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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - building:soft_storey

[Stefano Maffulli]

Hello folks,

discussion is tapering off on

The proposal page: 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/building:soft_storey


Definition: a type of construction where any one floor is 
significantly more flexible (less stiff) than those above and below it


If there are no more objections or comments, I'll prepare for voting 
some time next week. BTW, I'm at FOSDEM tomorrow afternoon in the geo 
devroom, in case you want to discuss in person, too.


Cheers,

stef


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[Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - building:soft_storey

[Stefano Maffulli]

Hello folks,

I put together a proposal page after our conversations on the list[1]. 
There doesn't seem to be a strong opinion in favor or against 
building:soft_storey as a key, and given that the key is already in 
use[2], I suggest we use it.


The proposal page: 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/building:soft_storey


Definition: a type of construction where any one floor is significantly 
more flexible (less stiff) than those above and below it


Let's continue the discussion on the Talk page.

Thanks,

Stef

[1] 
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/tagging/2018-December/041498.html


[2] https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/building:soft_storey



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Re: [Tagging] how to map soft story/soft storey buildings properly?

[Stefano Maffulli]

On Sat, Dec 29, 2018 at 3:44 PM Martin Koppenhoefer 
wrote:

> usually the answer to this is we do not want to be merely redistributing
> authoritative data that OSM mappers can not improve.


Sorry, I am not making myself clear enough. This data can be modified and
improved by OSM mappers. It's not that different from power/switch/voltage,
primary/secondary data discussed recently or other data, like VHF channels
in harbors/waterways. It's data that is available to trained people. For
San Francisco specifically mappers can rely on the public dataset to
double-check and in other parts of the world they can follow more
appropriate rules.

It's also worth reiterating that a tag of this sort already exists in the
database, although it's not officially recognized.
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Re: [Tagging] how to map soft story/soft storey buildings properly?

[Stefano Maffulli]

On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 12:58 AM Michael Patrick 
wrote:

> Because their may not have been very many of these left after multiple
> earthquakes?
>

Interesting theory :) There are hundreds of thousands of these sort of
buildings in California alone: it's a pretty big deal.

First, it might be noticed that the term, even in OSM, is not used in
> isolation, it is part
> of an extensive internally consistent system of terms from a survey of a
> particular part
> of the world.[...]
> In the western United States, designating a building as a 'soft_story'
> visually with the intended meaning that it was at seismic risk, you
> would be off base.
>

I want to re-iterate that the intention of this discussion is to find a way
to tag on OSM buildings that are **officially** defined as Soft Story by
the appropriate agencies. This is not about doing ground inspections and
visual recognition of buildings vulnerable to earthquakes done by random
volunteers.

They examples you gave make an interesting point. Who
> maintains this in OSM, i.e. if a retrofit is accomplished, do you
> still designate it as soft story?
>

In San Francisco we have NERT volunteers who are already maintaining data
about soft story buildings in their areas but they are not using OSM. These
volunteers look at the *official* public data from SF government and mark
things on paper, excel tables, their private google maps.

The intention here is to help the NERT volunteers to standardize on OSM
instead.


> What about addresses which
> are demo'd and new construction? Also, for various reasons,
> many, many retrofits are not done under a permit, or not
> specifically identified as a seismic retrofit.
>

Again, this doesn't apply to California. Anything done to a building in
California must go through public permits *and* laws mandate specifically
retrofitting for buildings that are by law identified as 'soft story'.
Demolished buildings and new constructions in California aren't soft story
according to law.


> However, what I think what you want to do is still
> possible and could be really, really useful, if it
> followed a format ( like one of the VSMs) that
> provided the complete set of characteristics.
>

I agree it would be cool but NERT volunteers don't have the resources for
doing this. Plus, it would be out of scope for them: the job has already
been done by San Francisco DBI already (and other DBIs across the state).

A summary of the discussion so far:

- OpenDRI used building:soft_storey=yes (and some mis-spelled variations)
- Other people in Nepal used building:irregularity:type=soft_storey
- over-namespacing is considered harmful

Given that soft storey is a characteristic of a building, I'm starting to
think that we have two  options:

1 - "soft_storey" as its own key, with values "yes" and "retrofitted". The
value "No" is redundant.
2 - soft_storey as key in the building namespace, so it is
building:soft_storey="yes" or "retrofitted"

Any thoughts?

/stef

PS

> ( another kind of soft story
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millennium_Tower_(San_Francisco)#Sinking_and_tilting_problem
> )
>

Totally different story (not storey :))
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Re: [Tagging] how to map soft story/soft storey buildings properly?

[Stefano Maffulli]

On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 1:17 AM Martin Koppenhoefer 
wrote:

> indeed, that's what I was suspecting. Would it be possible to give mappers
> summary advice on a short wikipage how to identify potential soft storey
> buildings? Or is this something that requires expert training?
>

This requires expert training and as I said in another message, this job
(at least in California) has already been done by the Department of
Building Inspection (DBI). The DBI releases open data with the list of soft
story buildings and the status of their retrofitting.

Regarding the choice of tag, I was looking at taginfo and the only current
> tag with some usage I have found is
> building:irregularity:type
> 
> *soft_sto*ry
> 
>

Thanks for digging these up. They seem to be in Nepal, too but they must
have been done outside of the OpenDRI initiative of Katmandu since they use
a different tag. For example, https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/328538917
and an OpenDRI one, https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/226670899

The key is not bad, but could also omit the "type" and become
> building:irregularity, or become a property
> building:irregularity:soft_storey=yes/suspected/etc,
> in case we expect more building irregularities on the same building. I
> also note the word "structure" is not in the key, there might be other
> kinds of e.g. geometric irregularities as well.
>

How is this going to work with regards to the ongoing namespace discussion?

"story" is American English, in British spelling it should be "storey" (we
> use British spelling in tag names by convention).
>

I know :)
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Re: [Tagging] how to map soft story/soft storey buildings properly?

[Stefano Maffulli]

On Mon, Dec 17, 2018 at 2:19 PM Martin Koppenhoefer 
wrote:

> It is at least debatable, I know there are some people who love long
> structured tags, although this idea is in a minority in Osm tagging, most
> people do not use tags like this. It doesn’t seem necessary in this case to
> use a structured name, I would not expect other “soft_storey”s in different
> domains.
>

Ah! that makes sense. soft_storey=yes/no as its own key would be used also
to keep track of the status of reinforcement. (more about this below)


> The bigger problem could be verifiability. OSM is about crowd sourced
> geodata while this property seems to require expert capabilities and
> additional information you cannot get non-destructively on the ground?
>

A soft story building can be identified visually by the trained eye and
such buildings are inherently weaker than others in earthquakes, even if
they've been reinforced. That said, even among soft story buildings there
are degrees of weakness and higher rigidity is better. To address this,
there are laws and building regulations. In California, the location of
soft story buildings is shared publicly including their reinforcement
status. A soft_storey key could have value "yes" or "reinforce complete"
according to local law?

I got interested in this tag because I'm working with San Francisco NERT
volunteers to add the official SF soft story database from
https://sfdbi.org/soft-story-properties-list to OSM. Eventually, we'd like
to do a mass import but before even going close to it, I thought that first
we should reach an agreement on which key/value to use.
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Re: [Tagging] how to map soft story/soft storey buildings properly?

[Stefano Maffulli]

On Sun, Dec 16, 2018 at 1:17 AM Martin Koppenhoefer 
wrote:

> no, this clearly isn’t a suitable key because the soft story property from
> what you wrote above is about a structural detail in some floors while
> building structure is about the general structural system of a building or
> part of it.
>

"soft story" is actually an attribute of the whole building, not just one
floor. It's a recognized classification of a structural characteristic of
buildings.

On Sun, Dec 16, 2018 at 1:35 AM Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote:

> What is really trying to be tagged?
>

Good question. For disaster preparedness and response, it is valuable to
have a list of soft story buildings in a neighborhood. There are multiple
places where such buildings are mapped like https://sfdbi.org/softstory,
http://softstory.openoakland.org/,
http://www.ladbs.org/services/core-services/plan-check-permit/plan-check-permit-special-assistance/mandatory-retrofit-programs/soft-story-retrofit-program


> The earthquake susceptibility of a building/structure? In that case use
> some words to indicate that?
> earthquake_susceptibility=soft_story ?
>
> There are other things that are earthquake susceptible too, so it needs to
> be able tag them too.
>

Sounds like it would be complicating the model. There are too many ways by
which a building would be susceptible to quakes.

So far, building:soft_storey:y/n seems to be the least controversial way to
tag these buildings. Any other thoughts? I'll propose it for formal review
if there are no major blockers.

thanks,
/stef
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[Tagging] how to map soft story/soft storey buildings properly?

[Stefano Maffulli]

Hello folks,

i'm a bit confused about how to map soft story buildings. The Wikipedia
definition https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soft_story_building is

soft story building is a multi-story building in which one or more floors
have windows, wide doors, large unobstructed commercial spaces, or other
openings in places where a shear wall would normally be required for
stability as a matter of earthquake engineering design.

A few years ago, there was an effort (promoted by World Bank, it seems) to
map buildings in OSM for Katmandu where they used key
buidling:soft_storey=yes/no. They never proposed a formal tag. The results
of that effort is a bit confusing and I'm not sure it's the best approach.
See
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Kathmandu_Living_Labs/exposuresurvey#Building_Structure

There are ~13,000 buildings using that key, yes/no
https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/building:soft_storey

I'm not convinced soft_storey should be its own key or rather a structural
characteristic of a building. For example, building:structure is widely
used to tell if buildings are made of masonry, reinforced concrete, etc. It
would make sense for soft_storey to be a value of that key.
https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/building:structure

The values are not standardized and lots of spelling creativity is in that
key.  BTW, there is no wiki page for building:structure either.

Question for the community: does it make sense to add soft story
information using the key building:soft_storey=y/n (similar to
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:building:fireproof) or should I use
building:structure=soft_storey?

Thanks,
stef
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Re: [Tagging] emergency=control_centre

[Stefano Maffulli]

On Sun, Dec 9, 2018 at 8:16 AM Paul Allen  wrote:

> Ambulance stations
> (like fire stations) are places where people should be aware that high
> speed emergency
> vehicles may suddenly appear from.
>

This is a factor but not the main one for using emergency=fire_station or
ambulance. These amenities and buildings are *resources* that are useful
during or in the aftermath of disastrous event. The reason why I would want
to map the building where ambulances and firestations with the emergency
key, instead of the building or amenities is that this information has
practical value for disaster preparation and response.

This conversation made me realize that the wiki page could use some more
details on the scope of the emergency key, IMO, to also help mappers.
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[Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - emergency=fire_alarm_box

[Stefano Maffulli]

Hello folks,

the fire alarm box tag has been in RFC status for a while and all the
concerns raised have been addressed.

Here is the proposal
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/fire_alarm_box

Please leave your votes and comments.

/stef
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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - emergency=fire_alarm_box

[Stefano Maffulli]

On Sun, Nov 4, 2018 at 1:06 PM Martin Koppenhoefer 
wrote:

> I think you have to make it clear if it should be limited to public alarms
> on the street, or any alarm box could get the tag including those in
> buildings, and if it is the former the tag should get a different name,
> while the tag name is fine if it is intended for any fire alarm box.
>

I should have been more precise... What I mean is that we should keep the
scope of my initial proposal, that is to limit the tag to alarm boxes
placed on the street (like the wikipedia page defines them
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire_alarm_call_box). The term is fairly well
defined in English, there are pictures clarifying what this is supposed to
look like and there are examples on OSM already.
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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - emergency=fire_alarm_box

[Stefano Maffulli]

On Sun, Nov 4, 2018 at 5:40 AM Martin Koppenhoefer 
wrote:

>
> it is exactly the same thing . I would also include those in private
> buildings, there’s no difference.
>

I can see how one would think they are the same. To a first respondent,
they have few important differences that may not be visible to non-experts.
One, they are maintained by the cities to resist major events. Two, they
are accessible to the public, outside of (collapsed?) buildings. Three, the
alarms in buildings are expected to be accessible *first* by the people in
the building: first respondents are unlikely to reach the alarms in a condo
or a bank before the people in there do (or the automatic signal goes off).

You can add alarms in private buildings but I don't see how that
information would be valuable. In san francisco, private condos, public
buildings and larger buildings are mandated to have fire alarms connected
to the fire department anyway so you'd basically map redundant information.
Not sure about other places in the world, I don't object to using the tag
outside of its scope.

and to answer Warin's comment :

you don't need a map to find them
>

Think of fire hydrants: they are usually on public land and we map them.
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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - emergency=fire_alarm_box

[Stefano Maffulli]

On Sat, Nov 3, 2018 at 5:33 PM Graeme Fitzpatrick 
wrote:

> Do we also use this tag to tag the "In case of fire, break glass" alarms
> eg https://goo.gl/images/4qVSgc, that are found throughout public access
> buildings eg hospitals, high rise offices, hotels, universities etc?
>

IMO to add those to OSM would be overkill: people frequenting the buildings
will know where the alarms are, and those most often get triggered also
automatically anyway.

I think it's more worthwhile focusing on the alarms that are in the street,
actionable by passer-by, or the volunteers of various disaster response
teams. The use case is of a member of such disaster response team doing the
first inspections on the ground after a major event (say, earthquake) and
noticing fire. Their printed map should have the closest alarm marked.
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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - emergency=fire_alarm_box

[Stefano Maffulli]

On Sat, Nov 3, 2018 at 4:00 PM Martin Koppenhoefer 
wrote:

> is this intended only for those alarm boxes that directly notify a fire
> department or would those for local systems count as well (e.g. ring an
> alarm bell)?
>

These are to call the fire department only.
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[Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - emergency=fire_alarm_box

[Stefano Maffulli]

hello folks, first RFC here!

Proposal to add a tag to map "A device put on public land used for
notifying a fire department of a fire."

Full proposal here:
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/fire_alarm_box

Add a tag for fire alarm call boxes. A fire alarm box, fire alarm call box,
or fire alarm pull box is a device used for notifying a fire department of
a fire. Typically installed on street corners or in buildings.

Cities like San Francisco rely on this type of boxes for emergencies
because they offer redundancy over other communication systems, like cell
phones. In San Francisco these boxes have been reinforced to resist the
strongest quakes and are considered to be a redundancy tool in case of
emergency. These are placed usually every 2 blocks.

Many of these have already been mapped in San Francisco and other places:
https://overpass-turbo.eu/?w=%22emergency%22%3D%22fire_alarm_box%22+global

I'd love your opinion on this, these make OSM data even better to build
resiliency maps.

Cheers,
stef
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Re: [Tagging] Part/whole confusion with Wikidata tag, and the need for enveloping parts into a whole

[Stefano]

Il giorno mar 7 ago 2018 alle ore 18:37 peterkrauss <
pe...@openstreetmap.com.br> ha scritto:

>
> >
> > Using route or site relations when appropriate is a good solution.
>
> Ok, lets elect the OSM Map Features that are Wikidata-good-solutions
>
> * "type=boundary" (6,525,236 elements)
>
> * "type=route" (30,257,877 elements!) and complements as
> "type=route_master".
>
> * ... more good solutions?
>
> AssociatedStreet suggests to collect the etymology of the road name

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Relation:associatedStreet


>
> PS: "type=site" was classified with status "abandoned", at
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Relations/Proposed/Site
>
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[Tagging] Weighbridges for containers

[Stefano]

Hello,
since two years an IMO regulation requires the weighing of full shipping
containers and this caused the increase of weighing stations, often grouped
together in the same facility.
I wanted to map some of them and opted for using the existing tag amenity =
weighbridge[0] but on an area instead of the highway.
I created also the tag ( weighbridge:solas = yes ) to tell apart the
classic weighbridges (i.e. for tractors) from the ones used for container
trucks

Example: https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/505500747

What do you think?
Should I describe the use case on the wiki page?

Thanks,
Stefano

[0] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity%3Dweighbridge
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Re: [Tagging] Outdoor deckchairs

[Stefano]

Il giorno dom 29 apr 2018 alle ore 11:03 Tomasz Wójcik <tom...@wp.pl> ha
scritto:

> There are wooden public deckchairs like these:
>
> https://www.haloursynow.pl/img/wysiwig/images/IMG_3515.jpg
>
>
> http://www.pmo.com.pl/media/k2/items/cache/0dc247c07eee71a72cf9409729fb3455_XL.jpg
>
>
> http://gloskoninski.pl/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/lezaki-park-ojc-w-konin-kbo-2.jpg
>
>
> I think they are something different than bench and need separate tag,
> like "amenity=deckchair". What do you think?
>
>
>
I found amenity=bench + bench:type=lounger as existing tagging when I
mapped some of them.
http://www.genoaportcenter.it/Repository/Immagini/viadottoimperiale.jpg

Regards,
Stefano


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Re: [Tagging] discrepancy in shop definition and "wholesale" value

[Stefano]

2018-02-28 10:39 GMT+01:00 Martin Koppenhoefer :

> The wiki states that a shop is a place selling retail goods or services.
> The value shop=wholesale, almost 1000 uses, is not fitting into this
> definition. What shall we do?
>

Where did you read that??
I see on
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:shop%3Dwholesale
A *warehouse club * or *cash
and carry * is
a large store which sells items in bulk. Many warehouse clubs require a
membership fee.

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/wholesale


> Cheers,
> Martin
>
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Re: [Tagging] Nicknames

[Stefano]

2017-10-25 9:53 GMT+02:00 Martin Koppenhoefer :

>
>
> sent from a phone
>
> > On 25. Oct 2017, at 09:18, Stephan Knauss 
> wrote:
> >
> > Why not using loc_name for it?
>
>
> +1, loc_name, nat_name, reg_name, alt_name, there are quite some
> established tags to put alternative names on objects.
>

Why not using Wikidata for names?

The nickname is there
https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q60


>
> Cheers,
> Martin
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Re: [Tagging] landuse=industrial with industrial=port

[Stefano]

Hello,
I just tried and Marinetraffic (probably the only -or one of the few-
consumer in the field) seems to handle only industrial=port in their custom
maps.
Does a totally new key have benefits?

Stefano

2017-02-23 1:52 GMT+01:00 John Willis <jo...@mac.com>:

>
>
>
> Javbw
> On Feb 22, 2017, at 10:13 PM, Martin Koppenhoefer <dieterdre...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> If you want more detail about the port (typology / properties), please
> explain what should be added (you'll likely know better then me what you
> need, as you have many of them).
>
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Seaway
>
>
> I will read up on what is mappable currently and compare to features I
> have seen that are mappable - all of these little towns have similar
> infrastructure for many 10m fishing boats, and additional infrastructure
> for larger 20-30m boats in some places.
>
> The one thing I need to check on is... a boat "pull-out" area. It is not a
> dock/pier and not a boat launch. Launches are for cars to get boats off
> their trailer, and mappable for people to know where to take their boat to
> get it into/out of a body of water. These pull-out areas are long stretches
> of (concrete) shoreline dedicated to pulling small and medium sized boats
> out of the water for parking /maintenance for smaller little boats. I'm
> sure in other countries where there is less infrastructure, this is just a
> beach or shoreline, but these are purpose-built and dedicated features.
> Maybe there is an existing key, but this is a common feature for tiny
> fishing villages I would like to map, like this one (my picture).
>
> https://m.flickr.com/#/photos/javbw/11091200666/in/set-72157638113676925/
>
> I know these are small things for small villages, and mapping for a big
> intermodal container ports is more important, but there are more of these
> little places to map overall.
>
> Javbw
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Tagging] landuse=industrial with industrial=port

[Stefano]

2017-02-21 8:16 GMT+01:00 Malcolm Herring <malcolm.herr...@btinternet.com>:

> On 20/02/2017 20:14, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:
>
>> agreed, the wiki page titled 'Harbour' gives an overview of both, maybe
>> the page should be renamed
>>
>
> I could rename it "Harbours and Ports" and add text to cover ports, but
> first I need some agreed tagging for ports. That was the question asked in
> the OP. Most of the instances of "landuse=harbour" are over areas that are
> in fact port facilities. Other port areas tend to be tagged
> "landuse=industrial".
>
> Maybe someone can propose a port specific tagging?


I use already my proposal, I haven't migrated to the correct page, but it's
here
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:landuse%3Dport

Ciao,
Stefano



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Re: [Tagging] Sub tags for sport=soccer

[Stefano]

On Nov 10, 2016 03:14, "Warin" <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> There are several varieties of soccer;
>
>
> The traditional 11 a side game. The pitch size is on the OSMwiki page
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:sport%3Dsoccer .
>
>
> 9 a side ... so 18 players in total.
>
>
> 5 a side so 10 people total.
>
>
> A version for the 'younger people' (children) usually called 'mini
soccer".
>
>
> 
>
> I think these would be best tagged with the added sub tag of
>
> soccer= 11_a_side(default)/9_a_side/5_a_side/mini_soccer/*
>
>
> Where * can be used to describe whatever version that may come later or
be in existence now.
>
>
> Comments?
>

Hi,
I made this kind of proposal some years ago, and I used it a bit.
If you want to improve it and move it forward I'd like that.

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Soccer

Ciao,
Stefano

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Re: [Tagging] Tagging of Country Names

[Stefano]

2016-10-25 17:02 GMT+02:00 Sven Geggus <li...@fuchsschwanzdomain.de>:

>
> So I propose a correction of all country names to names into official
> langages of
> the respective countries only and to remove all english names.
>

If you'd want the name only in official languageS the problem will arise in
countries with more than one (and equally) official language.

>
> Any objectives?
>

Is there on all the countries the Wikidata id?

>
> Sven
>

Regards,
Stefano


>
> --
> Um Kontrolle Ihres Kontos wiederzugewinnen, klicken Sie bitte auf das
> Verbindungsgebrüll. (aus einer Ebay fishing Mail)
>
> /me is giggls@ircnet, http://sven.gegg.us/ on the Web
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Re: [Tagging] Satellite visibility of archaeological sites

[Stefano]

2016-08-23 13:42 GMT+02:00 Bjoern Hassler <bjohas...@gmail.com>:

> Hi all,
>
> how would you tag whether an archaeological site is visible on satellite
> images?
>
> Sardinia has several 1,000 large megalithic stone towers (nuraghe), about
> 600 of which are in OSM. However, they have different states of
> preservation. Some are clearly visible on the satellite image (with
> extensive structures present), but others aren't (and there probably isn't
> much remaining).
>
> This doesn't necessarily indicate their preservation - some are covered by
> forest. So a tag like "preservation" may not be easy to add unless you do a
> ground survey.
>
> However, I'd like to add something like "visibility", indicating whether
> the site is clearly visible from a satellite image (and may thus be worth
> visiting).
>
> What do you think? What tag should I use?
>

Probably you could use tourism = attraction for the most important (Su
Nuraxi, Nuraghe Losa, and so on, perhaps the ones mantained by someone?).
I never had the possibility to further extend the tagging, but the nuraghes
differ by period and by shape (single tower towards castle).

See this for the tagging (I discussed it some years ago with the italian
community) http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/IT:Glossario_OSM#Nuraghe

Here's my map of them (manually updated)
http://nuraghe.org/map.html#8/40.097/9.124



> Bjoern
>
>
Regards,
Stefano


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Re: [Tagging] tagging seasonal sports

[Stefano]

2016-04-06 1:27 GMT+02:00 Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com>:

> Hi,
>
> Where one sport is played in winter (eg soccer) and another in played in
> summer (e.g. soccer) ... I have two methods
>
> sport=cricket;soccer ... and thus lose the seasonal information
>
> OR
>
> tag each pitch;
> the cricket pitch is usually circular and tagged
> sport=cricket,seasonal=summer
> the soccer pitch is rectangular, overlays the cricket pitch and is tagged
> sport=soccer, seasonal=summer
>
> BUT
> what to do if I'm lazy or the pitches are indistinct and a only have one
> way/pitch to tag .. but want to include the seasonal information? Even
> opening_hours if there are known dates cannot be used on dual tag for the
> same way.
>
>
> Ideas?
>

In the only case happened to me I applied the conditional restrictions
tagging (I've recovered it now because was deleted due to warnings I
believe, perhaps because conditional tagging is documented only for road
restrictions?).

http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/24297524
It's a swimming pool used as five-a-side soccer pitch during winter.

http://www.ilsecoloxix.it/rw/IlSecoloXIXWEB/levante/foto_trattate/2012/12/07/piscinacampo2--673x320.jpg

Regards,
Stefano

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Re: [Tagging] shop=marine RFC

[Stefano]

2016-03-15 11:32 GMT+01:00 Malcolm Herring <malcolm.herr...@btinternet.com>:

> On 15/03/2016 09:42, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:
>
>> and do you go to the same shops?
>>
>
> Yes. Chandleries cater for all types of small craft.
>
>
>
Chandlers are called also to supply materials and groceries to vessels
calling at the port (container / conventional ships), at least in my
company I hear them called as such also when dealing with foreign agents...

Stefano


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Re: [Tagging] shop=marine RFC

[Stefano]

2016-03-14 23:28 GMT+01:00 Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com>:

> On 14/03/2016 11:37 PM, Richard Fairhurst wrote:
>
>> Richard Z. wrote:
>>
>>> this meaning is not even in wiktionary. How many of those shops
>>> would even know they are called chandler?
>>>
>> All of them, in my (fairly extensive) experience.
>>
>> http://reader.waterwaysworld.com/fullsearch.cgi?q=chandlery
>>
>> Richard
>>
>>
>>
>>
> A google for 'ship chandlers' on
> https://www.google.co.uk/?gws_rd=ssl#q=ships+chandlers
>
> turns up quite a few that themselves use the term 'Chandlery' in their own
> description.
>
> I think the term is common in the boating and shipping world.
>
>
>
> Hi all,
In Genoa (Italy), I have at least two naval supplies shops naming
themselves "(ship) chandlers".
 One of them is this one http://www.yachtchandler.it/ (I mapped with the
openseamap tagging plus shop=ship_chandler)
The other one was established in 1858, has "ship chandler" on the sign, but
I haven't yet mapped it.
Another one I have mapped some years ago as shop=chandler (but no
'chandler' in the name iirc).

Regards,
Stefano

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[Tagging] Move tag to a subtag (landuse=port)

[Stefano]

Hi all,
following discussion in
https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/pull/1731
I would like to move the tagging scheme for landuse=port[0], proposed by
me last year, under the industrial proposal [1].

For the data part, I would replace landuse=port with
landuse=industrial+industrial=port where applicable (checking each
occurrence). I already did this in my city http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/b0N

For the wiki page I would move the name from Tag:landuse%3Dport
to Tag:industrial%3Dport (I see that there are 3 translations, do they move
as well?)

What's your opinion?

Regards,
Stefano

[0] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:landuse%3Dport
[1] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/industrial
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Re: [Tagging] Sector, section, and cemetery

[Stefano]

2015-05-15 15:38 GMT+02:00 Kotya Karapetyan kotya.li...@gmail.com:

 Hi everybody,

 I was mapping cemeteries recently, and I stumbled over a couple of
 confusing points. I would like to know your opinion.

 1) There is landuse=cemetery and amenity-grave_yard. Could someone explain
 the difference please? Is it that graveyard is always at a place of worship
 territory? I find it quite confusing: most big cemeteries in Moscow have
 started as such graveyards, but are now much more known than those old
 churches or monasteries (which may even be non-functional by now). Also, at
 every cemetery, there is a place of worship. But its only purpose is often
 to hold a burial service at that cemetery.

 2) For large cemeteries, mapping of sections/sectors is essential for the
 map to be of any use. There is a proposal for this
 https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Cemetery_sector,
 but it seems to be abandoned. I would restart it, but I have a doubt: do we
 want a specific cemetery-related tag only? I would rather introduce
 something like a section that could be used elsewhere too (e.g. for a
 large parking, beach, etc.) The fact that it's a cemetery section can be
 derived from geometry.


The person who proposed it did also a mass retagging where sector were
already defined



 3) A good alternative could be a subtag:
 cemetery:section=xxx,
 where I would make xxx the name of the section (aka ref and name).

 4) Ref seems to be a good tagging for the cemetery section number, but it
 doesn't show up on the map, unlike the name (e.g.
 https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/345082198). Is ref still a preferred
 tag?

 5) Is it more correct to use section or sector for cemeteries? The
 proposal is for sector but I think it should actually be section.


You could evaluate the tagging already in use in different cemeteries
around the world and see which tags are used for similar objects, then
proposing some system to unify the situation.
Well mapped cemeteries you can find in Poland, Pere Lachaise in Paris,
Staglieno in Genoa, and so on.


 Cheers,
 Kotya


Regards.
Stefano


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Re: [Tagging] Proposed tag shop=wholesale

[Stefano]

2015-05-08 18:04 GMT+02:00 Andrew MacKinnon andrew...@gmail.com:

 I propose to create the tag shop=wholesale for stores that sell
 large quantities of merchandise in bulk, such as Costco and Sam's
 Club. Many such stores require a membership to join. See
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warehouse_club. This tag has 320 uses
 in taginfo already.


Hi,
I described (and proposed) the tag in 2011 with a wholesale key to specify
the items sold

http://wiki.osm.org/wiki/Proposed_features/wholesale

Feel free to edit the page or improve it :-)

Regards,
Stefano


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Re: [Tagging] Zones 30 in Belgium (from [OSM-talk-be] )

[Stefano Fraccaro]

It's not possible to apply the same JOSM preset to all nodes at one time?
If the case, maybe I can write a short program to do that (in C# language).

Stefano


Il 20/11/2012 10:40, A.Pirard.Papou ha scritto:

I have converted their file to a .osm file.
I can transfer the nodes to another layer and apply a JOSM preset.
That's quite fast but 1000 is much!
But I can split the .osm file to share the work.



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Re: [Tagging] emergency=fire_hydrant and wrenches

[Stefano Pallicca]

2012/7/25 fly lowfligh...@googlemail.com:
 On 25/07/12 14:00, LM_1 wrote:
 2012/7/25 Jason Cunningham jamicu...@googlemail.com:
 On 24 July 2012 19:55, David ``Smith'' vidthe...@gmail.com wrote:

 Useful to whom? The local fire department should already know, and nobody
 else should be authorized to open the hydrant anyway — though it seems the
 biggest reason departments object to unauthorized access is damage caused 
 by
 using the wrong kind of wrench…

In my case, I'm talking about fire_hydrants used by forest
fire-fighters. It is mostly composed by volunteers, and we often go to
nearby places where we don't know where hydrants are or what kind of
wrench is needed to open them. On our trucks we often don't have both
types of wrench, thus knowing where is the nearest fire hydrant that
has the right wrench is very important to us.

Stefano

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[Tagging] emergency=fire_hydrant and wrenches

[Stefano Pallicca]

Hi all,
In the place where I live, there are some hydrants that are secured,
that is you have to open it using a square or pentagonal wrench. I
think that this distinction could be useful (which wrench has to be
used, if any...)

Stefano

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[Tagging] Tagging: minimum required tags

[Stefano Fraccaro]

Hi,
I have started a project with a school to map some objects in our 
city (for example, house numbers). There is a way to standardize this 
process, at least for some objects?
I'm a newbie and I ask every time how to tag a new type of objects... 
and if I look at other similar objects, I see that different people tag 
similar objects in different way.


For this school, I'm writing a document that explain howto map an 
object. For example:


 * choose a node in an existing building or, only if necessary, create
   a new node in a building side
 * add tag addr:housenumber
 * add the house number(s). If there are more values, separate each
   item with ;
 * add tag addr:street
 * add the correct street name

I think that if the tagging is, al least for the minimum required tags 
for each object, the same for all tagger, the database could be used 
more friendly and with lesser resources (that is better for all).
I think that is expensive detect house numbers in buildings, in nodes, 
with some numbers separated with comma, some numbers separated with 
semicolon, and so on...


I understand that different situation could produce different tagging... 
maybe this can be done inside each state (tagging standard for Italy, 
for Germay, for ...)


Good documentation = better tagging = lesser requests = better database info

Stefano

PS: my english is not so good, sorry

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[Tagging] Highway services operator

[Stefano Pallicca]

On the wiki [0] I found the operator tag to describe the operator of a
certain service area.
Now what is this tag supposed to describe? The fuel station operator?
The restaurant/bar/fast food operator? Other?

May other amenities/services be inserted?
E.g.
- semicolon-separated services=*
- atm=yes/no

Thw wiki entry is absolutely lean about these aspects

Stefano


http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:highway%3Dservices



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