[Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - yarn shops

[Nate Wessel]

Howdy y'all,

I am proposing to make official a tag that is already in use to some 
degree, *shop=yarn*, for shops that primarily sell yarn and other 
knitting/crochet supplies. Currently the wiki has these falling under 
shop=sewing. As a long-time sewer who has recently taken up knitting, I 
can say with confidence that these are very different things; though 
sometimes larger stores will sell both.


https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/yarn_shops

Please discuss this proposal on its Wiki Talk page.

Thanks,

Nate Wessel
Cartographer, Planner, Transport Nerd
NateWessel.com 
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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - yarn shops

[Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging]

What about shops that sell about equal amount of them and
as nonspecialist[1] I have no idea which is dominating?

Would it be reasonable to use shop=sewing sewing=yarn type of schema?

[1] I tried knitting just enough to confirm that it is not a hobby for me,
my sewing supplies do not expand beyond buttons/thread.

Jan 2, 2023, 18:14 by n...@natewessel.com:

>
> Howdy y'all, 
>
>
> I am proposing to make official a tag that is already in use to  some 
> degree, > shop=yarn> , for shops that primarily sell yarn  and other 
> knitting/crochet supplies. Currently the wiki has these  falling under 
> shop=sewing. As a long-time sewer who has recently  taken up knitting, I 
> can say with confidence that these are very  different things; though 
> sometimes larger stores will sell both. 
>
>
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/yarn_shops
>
>
> Please discuss this proposal on its Wiki Talk page.
>
>
> Thanks,
>
>
>
> Nate Wessel
>  >  Cartographer, Planner, Transport Nerd
>  >  NateWessel.com 
>
>

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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - yarn shops

[Nate Wessel]

I was at a store like that 
 just recently.


In that case I would probably tend to separate with a semicolon 
`shop=yarn;sewing` or just pick the dominant type. There can be a bit of 
a blurry boundary there for sure, same as for `shop=sewing` and 
`shop=fabric`. In that case I usually try to decide whether it's mostly 
fabric or other stuff like sewing machines and just pick one.


The problem with `sewing=yarn` IMO is that sewing and knitting aren't 
really all that closely related. You can be an expert at one without 
knowing the first thing about the other. None of the equipment or 
materials are the same.


I think there's a bigger discussion to be had about how to tag "craft 
stores" and "art supply stores", and the things they sell, and maybe 
everything here is a subclass of whatever that category is most properly 
called. But I fear that may be a can of worms that will have us 
attempting to define "art".


Best,

Nate Wessel
Cartographer, Planner, Transport Nerd
NateWessel.com 

On 2023-01-02 15:02, Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging wrote:

What about shops that sell about equal amount of them and
as nonspecialist[1] I have no idea which is dominating?

Would it be reasonable to use shop=sewing sewing=yarn type of schema?

[1] I tried knitting just enough to confirm that it is not a hobby for me,
my sewing supplies do not expand beyond buttons/thread.

Jan 2, 2023, 18:14 by n...@natewessel.com:

Howdy y'all,

I am proposing to make official a tag that is already in use to
some degree, *shop=yarn*, for shops that primarily sell yarn and
other knitting/crochet supplies. Currently the wiki has these
falling under shop=sewing. As a long-time sewer who has recently
taken up knitting, I can say with confidence that these are very
different things; though sometimes larger stores will sell both.

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/yarn_shops

Please discuss this proposal on its Wiki Talk page.

Thanks,

Nate Wessel
Cartographer, Planner, Transport Nerd
NateWessel.com 



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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - yarn shops

[stevea]

Yes, sewing and knitting aren't all that related.  In California, we have what 
are often known as "Vac-and-Sew" shops which sell (not necessarily all of) 
vacuum cleaners and their supplies (hoses, attachments, nozzles, refill 
bags...), sewing supplies and maybe sewing machines, sometimes fabric, 
sometimes yarn and knitting supplies.  Some of them offer classes in these 
endeavors, as well, in which case, they are more than a shop=*, they are a sort 
of school=*.  (Or "artist-oriented classroom," like a pottery studio which 
teaches how to use pottery wheels and might offer clay, glazes, other related 
supplies and even kiln-space "rental").

My point is that these are all different.  The long-standing OSM tenet of "tag, 
tag well" (or "tag your best") continues to apply.  While I have all due 
respect for wiki-authors who do great work of categorizing these things, at 
best these can only be considered as guidelines, rather than hard-and-fast 
tagging "requirements."  Yes, in OSM, (as "Street" is our middle name), in some 
cases, as with motorways, a highway=motorway is a highway=motorway pretty much 
the world over.  (Because we say so, we define what we mean by that).  With 
shops and art-related endeavors, there is much, much more variability, and I 
doubt we'll ever reach consensus what "best" or "perfect" strategies are.  So, 
the best we can do is continue to offer "tag your best" and "tag well" as 
ongoing strategies.  Sure, discuss further if more can be "wrung out" of such 
discussions, but realize that perfection may never be achieved.

As long as "tag your best" and "one feature, one tag" continue, I think we're 
in good shape.
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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - yarn shops

[Yves via Tagging]

I'm pretty sure this discussion already happened here years ago, did not found 
it, though.
Yves 

Le 2 janvier 2023 22:29:58 GMT+01:00, stevea  a 
écrit :
>Yes, sewing and knitting aren't all that related.  In California, we have what 
>are often known as "Vac-and-Sew" shops which sell (not necessarily all of) 
>vacuum cleaners and their supplies (hoses, attachments, nozzles, refill 
>bags...), sewing supplies and maybe sewing machines, sometimes fabric, 
>sometimes yarn and knitting supplies.  Some of them offer classes in these 
>endeavors, as well, in which case, they are more than a shop=*, they are a 
>sort of school=*.  (Or "artist-oriented classroom," like a pottery studio 
>which teaches how to use pottery wheels and might offer clay, glazes, other 
>related supplies and even kiln-space "rental").
>
>My point is that these are all different.  The long-standing OSM tenet of 
>"tag, tag well" (or "tag your best") continues to apply.  While I have all due 
>respect for wiki-authors who do great work of categorizing these things, at 
>best these can only be considered as guidelines, rather than hard-and-fast 
>tagging "requirements."  Yes, in OSM, (as "Street" is our middle name), in 
>some cases, as with motorways, a highway=motorway is a highway=motorway pretty 
>much the world over.  (Because we say so, we define what we mean by that).  
>With shops and art-related endeavors, there is much, much more variability, 
>and I doubt we'll ever reach consensus what "best" or "perfect" strategies 
>are.  So, the best we can do is continue to offer "tag your best" and "tag 
>well" as ongoing strategies.  Sure, discuss further if more can be "wrung out" 
>of such discussions, but realize that perfection may never be achieved.
>
>As long as "tag your best" and "one feature, one tag" continue, I think we're 
>in good shape.
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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - yarn shops

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

Am Mo., 2. Jan. 2023 um 18:17 Uhr schrieb Nate Wessel :

> Howdy y'all,
>
> I am proposing to make official a tag that is already in use to some
> degree, *shop=yarn*, for shops that primarily sell yarn and other
> knitting/crochet supplies. Currently the wiki has these falling under
> shop=sewing. As a long-time sewer who has recently taken up knitting, I can
> say with confidence that these are very different things; though sometimes
> larger stores will sell both.
>
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/yarn_shops
>
> Please discuss this proposal on its Wiki Talk page.
>


is it different from shop=haberdashery?
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag%3Ashop%3Dhaberdashery
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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - yarn shops

[Warin]

On 3/1/23 10:26, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:



Am Mo., 2. Jan. 2023 um 18:17 Uhr schrieb Nate Wessel 
:


Howdy y'all,

I am proposing to make official a tag that is already in use to
some degree, *shop=yarn*, for shops that primarily sell yarn and
other knitting/crochet supplies. Currently the wiki has these
falling under shop=sewing. As a long-time sewer who has recently
taken up knitting, I can say with confidence that these are very
different things; though sometimes larger stores will sell both.

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/yarn_shops

Please discuss this proposal on its Wiki Talk page.



is it different from shop=haberdashery?
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag%3Ashop%3Dhaberdashery



Very different.


Haberdashery'; is some times called 'notions'., buttons, zippers, buckles..

yarn: Knitting is making clothing/bedding from yarn.. so along with yarn 
you get knitting needles, knitting machines..


sewing; needles, thread, sewing machines ...

fabric: cloth used to make clothing, curtains, cover furniture ..


I regard these as different products... some stores do stock more than 
one of the above, some only have one and others do mostly one but have a 
little of another.



The problem of tagging the shop that sells more than one category has to 
be dealt with. A baker that also sells fruit and vegetables for instance?




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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - yarn shops

[Philip Barnes]

Shops selling wool are commonly referred to as wool shops so why not shop=wool?

Yarn doesn't seem very intuitive to me as a native English speaker.

Phil (trigpoint)

On 2 January 2023 17:14:28 GMT, Nate Wessel  wrote:
>Howdy y'all,
>
>I am proposing to make official a tag that is already in use to some degree, 
>*shop=yarn*, for shops that primarily sell yarn and other knitting/crochet 
>supplies. Currently the wiki has these falling under shop=sewing. As a 
>long-time sewer who has recently taken up knitting, I can say with confidence 
>that these are very different things; though sometimes larger stores will sell 
>both.
>
>https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/yarn_shops
>
>Please discuss this proposal on its Wiki Talk page.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Nate Wessel
>Cartographer, Planner, Transport Nerd
>NateWessel.com 
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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - yarn shops

[Alan Mackie]

On Mon, 2 Jan 2023, 16:20 Nate Wessel,  wrote:

> I was at a store like that
>  just recently.
>
> In that case I would probably tend to separate with a semicolon
> `shop=yarn;sewing` or just pick the dominant type. There can be a bit of a
> blurry boundary there for sure, same as for `shop=sewing` and
> `shop=fabric`. In that case I usually try to decide whether it's mostly
> fabric or other stuff like sewing machines and just pick one.
>
> The problem with `sewing=yarn` IMO is that sewing and knitting aren't
> really all that closely related. You can be an expert at one without
> knowing the first thing about the other. None of the equipment or materials
> are the same.
>
> I think there's a bigger discussion to be had about how to tag "craft
> stores" and "art supply stores", and the things they sell, and maybe
> everything here is a subclass of whatever that category is most properly
> called. But I fear that may be a can of worms that will have us attempting
> to define "art".
>
I think one of the issues here is that in OSM we use the craft key for
trades so there's no obvious catch all category left for activities you'd
expect to be part time or pastimes.
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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - yarn shops

[Nate Wessel]

shop=wool  ... this 
seems like almost exactly what I'm proposing. And is used much more 
frequently  than shop=yarn.


And yet for me, I never even thought to search for this. And the word 
'yarn' doesn't actually appear anywhere on the page or it would have 
shown up in my searches of the wiki.


It's also not referenced anywhere on the shop=sewing 
 page, which 
explicitly mentions knitting needles, etc. Nor on the shop=fabric 
 nor 
shop=haberdashery 
 pages.


It seems like maybe the real problem here is that the various tags 
related to the "fibre-arts" aren't all that well documented yet and not 
at all well cross-referenced. Would anyone object to an attempt to 
better cross-reference and distinguish these categories?


In particular it seems to me like shop=wool should encompass things like 
knitting needles, and specify that it would be selling (wool) yarn, and 
not wool fabric as that would fall under shop=fabric.


I would also want to drop references to yarn and knitting needles from 
shop=sewing, pointing to shop=wool for that.


It seems like shop=haberdashery and shop=sewing need some further 
discussion, as they seem almost impossible to distinguish from the wiki 
documentation. Personally, I always thought of a haberdashery as a hat 
shop?? I somehow hadn't even heard of that tag before this discussion.


Best,

Nate Wessel
Cartographer, Planner, Transport Nerd
NateWessel.com 

On 2023-01-03 07:51, Philip Barnes wrote:
Shops selling wool are commonly referred to as wool shops so why not 
shop=wool?


Yarn doesn't seem very intuitive to me as a native English speaker.

Phil (trigpoint)

On 2 January 2023 17:14:28 GMT, Nate Wessel  wrote:

Howdy y'all,

I am proposing to make official a tag that is already in use to
some degree, *shop=yarn*, for shops that primarily sell yarn and
other knitting/crochet supplies. Currently the wiki has these
falling under shop=sewing. As a long-time sewer who has recently
taken up knitting, I can say with confidence that these are very
different things; though sometimes larger stores will sell both.

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/yarn_shops

Please discuss this proposal on its Wiki Talk page.

Thanks,

Nate Wessel
Cartographer, Planner, Transport Nerd
NateWessel.com 


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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - yarn shops

[Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging]

Jan 3, 2023, 15:16 by n...@natewessel.com:

>
> shop=wool >  ... this 
> seems like almost exactly what I'm proposing. And is used  much > more 
> frequently >  than  shop=yarn. 
>
>
> And yet for me, I never even thought to search for this. And the  word 
> 'yarn' doesn't actually appear anywhere on the page or it  would have 
> shown up in my searches of the wiki. 
>
>
Added in 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Tag:shop%3Dwool&diff=2458814&oldid=2018646

>
> It's also not referenced anywhere on the > shop=sewing 
> >  page, which 
> explicitly mentions knitting needles, etc. Nor on the > shop=fabric 
> >  nor > 
> shop=haberdashery 
> >  pages. 
>
>
Feel free to add them to "See also" section!

>
> It seems like maybe the real problem here is that the various  tags 
> related to the "fibre-arts" aren't all that well documented  yet and not 
> at all well cross-referenced. Would anyone object to  an attempt to 
> better cross-reference and distinguish these  categories? 
>
>
No, and in general feel free to add such "see also" 
(except cases like linking barely used controversial tags, but this does not 
apply here)

>
> In particular it seems to me like shop=wool should encompass  things like 
> knitting needles, and specify that it would be selling  (wool) yarn, and 
> not wool fabric as that would fall under  shop=fabric. 
>
>
> I would also want to drop references to yarn and knitting needles  from 
> shop=sewing, pointing to shop=wool for that. 
>
>
> It seems like shop=haberdashery and shop=sewing need some further  
> discussion, as they seem almost impossible to distinguish from the  wiki 
> documentation.
>
>
Note that maybe they are effectively duplicates with the same meaning in 
practice
And in such cases OSM Wiki should not pretend that there is some systematic 
difference.
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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - yarn shops

[Philip Barnes]

On Tue, 2023-01-03 at 09:16 -0500, Nate Wessel wrote:
> shop=wool ... this seems like almost exactly what I'm proposing. And
> is used much more frequently than shop=yarn. 
> And yet for me, I never even thought to search for this. And the word
> 'yarn' doesn't actually appear anywhere on the page or it would have
> shown up in my searches of the wiki. 
> It's also not referenced anywhere on the shop=sewing page, which
> explicitly mentions knitting needles, etc. Nor on the shop=fabric nor
> shop=haberdashery pages. 
> It seems like maybe the real problem here is that the various tags
> related to the "fibre-arts" aren't all that well documented yet and
> not at all well cross-referenced. Would anyone object to an attempt
> to better cross-reference and distinguish these categories? 
> In particular it seems to me like shop=wool should encompass things
> like knitting needles, and specify that it would be selling (wool)
> yarn, and not wool fabric as that would fall under shop=fabric. 
> I would also want to drop references to yarn and knitting needles
> from shop=sewing, pointing to shop=wool for that. 
> It seems like shop=haberdashery and shop=sewing need some further
> discussion, as they seem almost impossible to distinguish from the
> wiki documentation. Personally, I always thought of a haberdashery as
> a hat shop?? I somehow hadn't even heard of that tag before this
> discussion. 

These were common back in the 70s, now a big part of the problem is
that most of this trade (along with other many other small specialist
retailers) have been taken up by bigger general purpose shops and craft
shops.

Thinking where do I know of a wool shop locally the answer is I don't
but thinking of where have I seen wool for sale I immediately came up
with The Range https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Range_(retailer) and
Charlie's (similar to The Range based in Wales and The Borders).

Phil (trigpoint)

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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - yarn shops

[Craig Wallace]

On 2023-01-03 12:51, Philip Barnes wrote:
Shops selling wool are commonly referred to as wool shops so why not 
shop=wool?


Yarn doesn't seem very intuitive to me as a native English speaker.


Nowadays, a lot of yarn is acrylic, or polyester, or cotton, or some 
other materials, or a mixture.

It is not necessarily made of wool. Especially the cheaper stuff.



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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - yarn shops

[Graeme Fitzpatrick]

On Wed, 4 Jan 2023 at 00:21, Nate Wessel  wrote:

> Would anyone object to an attempt to better cross-reference and
> distinguish these categories?
>

That's always a good idea! :-)

Thanks

Graeme
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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - yarn shops

[stevea]

Note to all on this thread:  The original poster / Proposal author has 
requested that further discussion on this take place on our wiki's Talk page of 
his Proposal [1].

With mail-lists, wiki (and their Talk pages), our newer Discourse forum and 
more (Mastodon servers and myriad proprietary channels like Slack and other 
social media), we do have many ways to communicate with each other.  I like to 
honor requests of Proposal authors, so I've started two minor (follow-up) 
topics on the Talk page as a seed. 

[1] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Proposed_features/yarn_shops
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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - yarn shops

[Nate Wessel]

Hi all,

I'm going to try to summarize some of my thoughts / findings on this 
issue thanks to all the helpful feedback here so far.


I took a good look through (randomish sample) everything tagged 
shop=wool , and in particular those 
with websites. It does seem like these are almost entirely shops selling 
yarn, though I did find at least one that wasn't but was also a 
plausible "wool" shop with no yarn: https://www.eaglewools.com.au/


For the most part, I'm happy to have found a somewhat more established 
tag that basically matches what I was proposing here 
. 
Though as I and some others have noted, I think the primary thing here 
is that the shop sells /yarn/ (and knitting etc supplies), regardless of 
whether the yarn is made of wool or silk or hemp or eyelashes or 
whatever. Is "wool shop" a British English thing? I (North American) 
really hadn't heard of that before this and would have called this a 
"yarn shop" or "knitting shop". I even found that language on some 
English language websites I looked at.


Random aside: The Polish(?) wiki page 
 for shop=wool 
does seem to mention yarn and knitting directly.


Anyway, if there is consensus that `shop=wool` is an accepted tag for a 
store selling /yarn/, I'm happy to list `shop=yarn` as a deprecated 
tagging on that page and proceed with shop=wool.


With all that in mind, I went ahead and edited the (English) wiki pages 
for shop=[ wool, sewing, haberdashery, fabric ] to try and more clearly 
separate and identify these. For the moment, the difference between a 
sewing shop and a haberdashery is still unclear to me; is a sewing shop 
just a haberdashery that also has some sewing machines and/or fabric? 
...but that can be a conversation for another day.


Let me restate some assumptions for the sake of debate:
* shop=wool is a shop that sells yarn, even if there is no literal wool 
on premises
* a shop selling nothing but wool fabric is shop=fabric (stores do 
specialize in wool suiting)

* a shop selling nothing but wool clothes is shop=clothes

Thoughts?

Thanks,

Nate Wessel
Cartographer, Planner, Transport Nerd
NateWessel.com 
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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - yarn shops

[Warin]

On 3/1/23 23:51, Philip Barnes wrote:
Shops selling wool are commonly referred to as wool shops so why not 
shop=wool?


Yarn doesn't seem very intuitive to me as a native English speaker.

Phil (trigpoint)



I think you need to contact a knitter?


https://www.tangled-yarn.co.uk/

https://www.greatbritishyarns.co.uk/

https://loopknitting.com › collections › british-yarns

https://www.thewoolfactory.co.uk

https://www.hobbycraft.co.uk › Knitting & Crochet


All the above use the word 'yarn'...



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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - yarn shops

[Warin]

On 5/1/23 11:19, Nate Wessel wrote:


Hi all,

I'm going to try to summarize some of my thoughts / findings on this 
issue thanks to all the helpful feedback here so far.


I took a good look through (randomish sample) everything tagged 
shop=wool , and in particular those 
with websites. It does seem like these are almost entirely shops 
selling yarn, though I did find at least one that wasn't but was also 
a plausible "wool" shop with no yarn: https://www.eaglewools.com.au/


For the most part, I'm happy to have found a somewhat more established 
tag that basically matches what I was proposing here 
. 
Though as I and some others have noted, I think the primary thing here 
is that the shop sells /yarn/ (and knitting etc supplies), regardless 
of whether the yarn is made of wool or silk or hemp or eyelashes or 
whatever. Is "wool shop" a British English thing? I (North American) 
really hadn't heard of that before this and would have called this a 
"yarn shop" or "knitting shop". I even found that language on some 
English language websites I looked at.


Random aside: The Polish(?) wiki page 
 for shop=wool 
does seem to mention yarn and knitting directly.


Anyway, if there is consensus that `shop=wool` is an accepted tag for 
a store selling /yarn/, I'm happy to list `shop=yarn` as a deprecated 
tagging on that page and proceed with shop=wool.


With all that in mind, I went ahead and edited the (English) wiki 
pages for shop=[ wool, sewing, haberdashery, fabric ] to try and more 
clearly separate and identify these. For the moment, the difference 
between a sewing shop and a haberdashery is still unclear to me; is a 
sewing shop just a haberdashery that also has some sewing machines 
and/or fabric? ...but that can be a conversation for another day.


Let me restate some assumptions for the sake of debate:
* shop=wool is a shop that sells yarn, even if there is no literal 
wool on premises
* a shop selling nothing but wool fabric is shop=fabric (stores do 
specialize in wool suiting)

* a shop selling nothing but wool clothes is shop=clothes

Thoughts?




Agree with

* a shop selling nothing but wool fabric is shop=fabric (stores do 
specialize in wool suiting)

* a shop selling nothing but wool clothes is shop=clothes


Disagree with

* shop=wool is a shop that sells yarn, even if there is no literal wool 
on premises



I think it would be better with shop=knitting, or shop=yarn. There are 
some 28 shop=knitting, mostly UK, out to Turkie and USA..


Consider that acrylic yarn is now also available.

I think 'knitting' is better as that covers not only the yarn.

-

Haberdasher made an appearance in Chaucer's Canterbury Tales... so it is 
an old term.


There remain some specialists

https://www.williamgee.co.uk/product-category/haberdashery/
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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - yarn shops

[Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging]

Jan 5, 2023, 01:19 by n...@natewessel.com:

>
>  The > Polish(?)wiki page 
> >  for shop=wool does 
> seem to mention yarn and  knitting directly. 
>
>
Yes, https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Pl:Tag:shop%3Dwool is a Polish page
(PL/Pl being commons shortcut for Poland/Polish).
"artykuły dziewiarskie" mentioned there seems to mean "knitting materials"

> Anyway, if there is consensus that `shop=wool` is an accepted tag  for a 
> store selling > yarn> , 
>
(...)

>
>
>  * shop=wool is a shop that sells yarn, even if there is no literal  wool 
> on premises
>
>
>
That seems really ugly and I would not support this (but I am not an expert at 
all on this topic).
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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - yarn shops

[Sebastian Martin Dicke]

As far as I know yarn to knit socks and other textiles to be washed 
often are made nowadays usually from a mixture of wool and polyester (or 
other synthetic materials) while there are sold many balls of wool to 
knit other textiles at least in Wollgeschäften (literally wool shops) in 
Germany. Often their names contain the term Wolle (wool). In such shops 
you can buy needles too. Balls made from other natural materials 
processable like wool, such as cashmere, are sold there too.



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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - yarn shops

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

Am Do., 5. Jan. 2023 um 11:52 Uhr schrieb Sebastian Martin Dicke <
li...@post.sebastian-dicke.de>:

> As far as I know yarn to knit socks and other textiles to be washed
> often are made nowadays usually from a mixture of wool and polyester (or
> other synthetic materials) while there are sold many balls of wool to
> knit other textiles at least in Wollgeschäften (literally wool shops) in
> Germany. Often their names contain the term Wolle (wool). In such shops
> you can buy needles too.



I would expect all of them to sell wool. Yarn with a mixture of wool and
other materials can be seen as "wool"



> Balls made from other natural materials
> processable like wool, such as cashmere, are sold there too.



cashmere IS wool.
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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - yarn shops

[Nate Wessel]

I tend to agree still that `shop=wool` isn't quite the right tag. I was 
looking into this a bit more and there are NO uses of shop=wool in the 
entire United States , with the 
exception of one I added this morning. Though there are several with 
tags like `knit|yarn`, none of which (tags) are documented.


I think it's fair to say that outside of Britain and parts of Europe, 
this is just starting to be mapped. Maybe because the documentation 
didn't mention yarn? Maybe because `shop=wool` isn't an option in ID 
yet? Maybe because it's hard to knit and digitize maps at the same time??


I think I'll leave the proposal for `shop=yarn` in place, updating it to 
reflect the current usage of `shop=wool` and we can vote on whether to 
prefer one tag over the other. If it gets voted down at least we'll have 
established some consensus around `shop=wool` and can move forward with 
that.


Best,

Nate Wessel
Cartographer, Planner, Transport Nerd
NateWessel.com 

On 2023-01-05 04:12, Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging wrote:

Jan 5, 2023, 01:19 by n...@natewessel.com:

The Polish(?) wiki page
 for
shop=wool does seem to mention yarn and knitting directly.

Yes, https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Pl:Tag:shop%3Dwool is a 
Polish page

(PL/Pl being commons shortcut for Poland/Polish).
"artykuły dziewiarskie" mentioned there seems to mean "knitting materials"

Anyway, if there is consensus that `shop=wool` is an accepted tag
for a store selling /yarn/,

(...)

* shop=wool is a shop that sells yarn, even if there is no literal
wool on premises

That seems really ugly and I would not support this (but I am not an 
expert at

all on this topic).

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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - yarn shops

[stevea]

I do know some knitters, they are very exacting:  if you need "Size 7 circular 
needles," you better find one of these shops, or you must suffer online 
ordering / shipping.  The supplies (yarn, especially, but really, all of it) 
are quite specific:  "nothing else will do."  And as I've shopped with such 
knitters at more than one of these shops and appreciate the specific senses 
required to make a yarn purchase (sight, touch, yes, even smell — a faint hint 
of lanolin can be detected, says my nose) the brick and mortar yarn shops we're 
talking about here are seriously better than online shopping.  So, yes, when 
one of these shops exist, it often has a dedicated community, so much so that 
people do and will quite deliberately seek out a "yarn shop."  I know people 
who will drive three hours (one way) to get to one.  Good for OSM for mapping 
them.
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