Re: [Tagging] iD semi automatic adding public_transport to aerialway=station
Yes that's true, but then we need a clear definition of what is seen as "public_transport" and what's not, don't we? I think some mappers also use access=private already (I'm not sure whether that fits). I think this proposal: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Differentiation_for_routes_of_public_transport goes in a direction of that, but note it has nothing to do with aerialway=station. --Lukas Gesendet: Sonntag, 19. April 2020 um 13:12 Uhr Von: "Joseph Eisenberg" An: "Tag discussion, strategy and related tools" Betreff: Re: [Tagging] iD semi automatic adding public_transport to aerialway=station I agree that a tag like "public_transportation=yes" would be a sensible tag to add to a aerialway=station which is used as public transit, and "public_transportation=no" could be useful for a "railway=station" or "highway=bus_stop" which is not used for public transit. -- Joseph Eisenberg ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] iD semi automatic adding public_transport to aerialway=station
I agree that a tag like "public_transportation=yes" would be a sensible tag to add to a aerialway=station which is used as public transit, and "public_transportation=no" could be useful for a "railway=station" or "highway=bus_stop" which is not used for public transit. -- Joseph Eisenberg ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] iD semi automatic adding public_transport to aerialway=station
sent from a phone > On 19. Apr 2020, at 10:53, Jo wrote: > > It only makes sense if the teleférico can be used all year around and is > useful for the whole public. If it's only there to get skiers up a mountain, > I don't think it's part of the public transport network. I don’t agree that a public transport feature must be available all year long, saisonal features would be ok as well. I also wouldn’t open the can of worms asking to whom something is “useful”, as this is depending on subjective judgement, rather the question should be by whom it is “usable” Cheers Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] iD semi automatic adding public_transport to aerialway=station
It only makes sense if the teleférico can be used all year around and is useful for the whole public. If it's only there to get skiers up a mountain, I don't think it's part of the public transport network. Jo On Sun, Apr 19, 2020 at 10:43 AM Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: > > > sent from a phone > > > On 18. Apr 2020, at 23:13, Gegorian Hauser wrote: > > > > I know that in the aerialway=station wiki site is nothing written about > public_transport. > > But there should be the description about when the public_transport > tagging is allowed and when not > > > for all kinds of stations, public_transport=yes/no could make some sense > > > Cheers Martin > ___ > Tagging mailing list > Tagging@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging > ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] iD semi automatic adding public_transport to aerialway=station
sent from a phone > On 18. Apr 2020, at 23:13, Gegorian Hauser wrote: > > I know that in the aerialway=station wiki site is nothing written about > public_transport. > But there should be the description about when the public_transport tagging > is allowed and when not for all kinds of stations, public_transport=yes/no could make some sense Cheers Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] iD semi automatic adding public_transport to aerialway=station
I know that in the aerialway=station wiki site is nothing written about public_transport. But there should be the description about when the public_transport tagging is allowed and when not. If there is nothing in the aerialway=station what say when public_transport is OK and when not, iD will add the public_transport to all aerialway=station, according to these Wiki links: https://github.com/openstreetmap/iD/issues/7491 https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?oldid=625726 https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Public_transport#Cable_cars And so someone with better English then me, should write this into the aerialway=station Wiki, and fix writings in above linked sites! Gregor > Sent: Friday, April 10, 2020 at 4:31 AM > From: "Joseph Eisenberg" > To: "Tag discussion, strategy and related tools" > Cc: "Gegorian Hauser" > Subject: Re: [Tagging] iD semi automatic adding public_transport to > aerialway=station > > I checked the wiki page for aerialway=station and > public_transport=station - neither page currently suggests adding > public_transport=station to aerialway=station features. > > Nor has this been suggested that I can see in the history since 2016, > when it was briefly suggested to use public_transport=platform instead > of aerialway=station! (That's crazy): > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Tag%3Aaerialway%3Dstation=revision=1529291=1412174 > > -- Joseph Eisenberg > > On 4/10/20, Gegorian Hauser via Tagging wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > > Is it possible, that someone from this mailing list changes the wiki? > > I am not able to do this, because English is not my primary language. > > And so I can report this again to the iD Editor > > > > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:aerialway%3Dstation > > > > thanks > > > > Sent: Thursday, April 02, 2020 at 6:31 PM > > From: "Yves" > > To: "Tag discussion, strategy and related tools" > > Subject: Re: [Tagging] iD semi automatic adding public_transport to > > aerialway=station > > Hi Gegorian, > > You wrote: > > "No for public_transport tagging for aerialways what are generaly used for > > winter sport only during winter. > > > > No for aerialway in winter sport areas if the are used during summer to > > transport people. aerialway:summer:access=yes/booth/exit/etc. > > > > No for aerialway=goods > > > > > > > > Yes for public_transport tagging to aerialways they transport all days the > > comlete year peoples up and down > > > > Yes to aerialway in citys if they brin people up to a viewpoint/park/etc. > > > > Yes to aerialway they connect smal villages/hamlets to local bus stop or > > train stations" > > > > For the record, this proposal is OK for me. The exact wording is probably to > > be worked in the wiki. > > Yves___ Tagging mailing list > > Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging > ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] iD semi automatic adding public_transport to aerialway=station
I checked the wiki page for aerialway=station and public_transport=station - neither page currently suggests adding public_transport=station to aerialway=station features. Nor has this been suggested that I can see in the history since 2016, when it was briefly suggested to use public_transport=platform instead of aerialway=station! (That's crazy): https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Tag%3Aaerialway%3Dstation=revision=1529291=1412174 -- Joseph Eisenberg On 4/10/20, Gegorian Hauser via Tagging wrote: > > Hi, > > Is it possible, that someone from this mailing list changes the wiki? > I am not able to do this, because English is not my primary language. > And so I can report this again to the iD Editor > > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:aerialway%3Dstation > > thanks > > Sent: Thursday, April 02, 2020 at 6:31 PM > From: "Yves" > To: "Tag discussion, strategy and related tools" > Subject: Re: [Tagging] iD semi automatic adding public_transport to > aerialway=station > Hi Gegorian, > You wrote: > "No for public_transport tagging for aerialways what are generaly used for > winter sport only during winter. > > No for aerialway in winter sport areas if the are used during summer to > transport people. aerialway:summer:access=yes/booth/exit/etc. > > No for aerialway=goods > > > > Yes for public_transport tagging to aerialways they transport all days the > comlete year peoples up and down > > Yes to aerialway in citys if they brin people up to a viewpoint/park/etc. > > Yes to aerialway they connect smal villages/hamlets to local bus stop or > train stations" > > For the record, this proposal is OK for me. The exact wording is probably to > be worked in the wiki. > Yves___ Tagging mailing list > Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] iD semi automatic adding public_transport to aerialway=station
Hi, Is it possible, that someone from this mailing list changes the wiki? I am not able to do this, because English is not my primary language. And so I can report this again to the iD Editor https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:aerialway%3Dstation thanks Sent: Thursday, April 02, 2020 at 6:31 PM From: "Yves" To: "Tag discussion, strategy and related tools" Subject: Re: [Tagging] iD semi automatic adding public_transport to aerialway=station Hi Gegorian, You wrote: "No for public_transport tagging for aerialways what are generaly used for winter sport only during winter. No for aerialway in winter sport areas if the are used during summer to transport people. aerialway:summer:access=yes/booth/exit/etc. No for aerialway=goods Yes for public_transport tagging to aerialways they transport all days the comlete year peoples up and down Yes to aerialway in citys if they brin people up to a viewpoint/park/etc. Yes to aerialway they connect smal villages/hamlets to local bus stop or train stations" For the record, this proposal is OK for me. The exact wording is probably to be worked in the wiki. Yves___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] iD semi automatic adding public_transport to aerialway=station
Hi Gegorian, You wrote: "No for public_transport tagging for aerialways what are generaly used for winter sport only during winter. No for aerialway in winter sport areas if the are used during summer to transport people. aerialway:summer:access=yes/booth/exit/etc. No for aerialway=goods Yes for public_transport tagging to aerialways they transport all days the comlete year peoples up and down Yes to aerialway in citys if they brin people up to a viewpoint/park/etc. Yes to aerialway they connect smal villages/hamlets to local bus stop or train stations" For the record, this proposal is OK for me. The exact wording is probably to be worked in the wiki. Yves ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] iD semi automatic adding public_transport to aerialway=station
Can someone add this sugestions to the Wiki, or need these disscusion more time to hear different meanings? As written in my previous email, for me the situation is clear how to map a "aerialway=station", and for now, there was noone against my sugestion. regards Gregor Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2020 at 11:04 PM From: "Yves" To: "Tag discussion, strategy and related tools" , "Paul Allen" Subject: Re: [Tagging] iD semi automatic adding public_transport to aerialway=station Both Martin and Paul have good points, but this won't help mapping aerial ways. Discussing this small matter at hand and refining the wiki may. Yves ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] iD semi automatic adding public_transport to aerialway=station
Both Martin and Paul have good points, but this won't help mapping aerial ways. Discussing this small matter at hand and refining the wiki may. Yves Le 31 mars 2020 20:02:44 GMT+02:00, Paul Allen a écrit : >On Tue, 31 Mar 2020 at 18:21, Martin Koppenhoefer > >wrote: > >> I did not check recently, but from previous discussion and experience >I >> recall iD "semiautomatically" (i.e. suggesting to perform "fixes" for >the >> user for all of the currently downloaded map data in the editor) >> "improving" and "updating" tagging. This kind of behaviour could be >> questioned in the light of the automated editing guidelines (i.e. >maybe the >> issue is bigger than just aerialway stations). >> > >The last time I tried upgrading a tag (a few weeks ago) iD still didn't >give any >summary of what if was going to change. The only way to tell was to >look at >the complete tag list before upgrading and compare it with what you got >after >upgrading. Too much hassle. > >Many people will just assume iD is correct when it suggests an upgrade >and >just accept it. But that may not be the case. The suggestion may be >wrong >in >a particular case or it may be wrong in almost every case. The >developers >of >iD sometimes go their own way, much to the consternation of some in the >community. > >-- >Paul ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] iD semi automatic adding public_transport to aerialway=station
On Tue, 31 Mar 2020 at 18:21, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: > I did not check recently, but from previous discussion and experience I > recall iD "semiautomatically" (i.e. suggesting to perform "fixes" for the > user for all of the currently downloaded map data in the editor) > "improving" and "updating" tagging. This kind of behaviour could be > questioned in the light of the automated editing guidelines (i.e. maybe the > issue is bigger than just aerialway stations). > The last time I tried upgrading a tag (a few weeks ago) iD still didn't give any summary of what if was going to change. The only way to tell was to look at the complete tag list before upgrading and compare it with what you got after upgrading. Too much hassle. Many people will just assume iD is correct when it suggests an upgrade and just accept it. But that may not be the case. The suggestion may be wrong in a particular case or it may be wrong in almost every case. The developers of iD sometimes go their own way, much to the consternation of some in the community. -- Paul ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] iD semi automatic adding public_transport to aerialway=station
Am Di., 31. März 2020 um 18:38 Uhr schrieb Andy Townsend : > If the consensus here is that the approach that iD is taking isn't ideal, > then I'd suggest updating the wiki to match the consensus here > (cross-referencing the mailing list discussion), then suggesting that the > iD issue be looked at again in the light of the discussion here and the > (newly updated) wiki. > I did not check recently, but from previous discussion and experience I recall iD "semiautomatically" (i.e. suggesting to perform "fixes" for the user for all of the currently downloaded map data in the editor) "improving" and "updating" tagging. This kind of behaviour could be questioned in the light of the automated editing guidelines (i.e. maybe the issue is bigger than just aerialway stations). Cheers Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] iD semi automatic adding public_transport to aerialway=station
On 31/03/2020 15:08, Gegorian Hauser via Tagging wrote: I also opened yesterday a issue on the github site from iD but this was closed imediatly because of "there is nothing written in the Wiki" https://github.com/openstreetmap/iD/issues/7491 I guess? If the consensus here is that the approach that iD is taking isn't ideal, then I'd suggest updating the wiki to match the consensus here (cross-referencing the mailing list discussion), then suggesting that the iD issue be looked at again in the light of the discussion here and the (newly updated) wiki. Best Regards, Andy ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] iD semi automatic adding public_transport to aerialway=station
of course there existing aerialways they get used for public transport. I can name 5 or maybe more in my region, but the other 90%(in my region) are closed in summer and are only used during witer so these hae no public transport funktion. for me it is ok to ad public transport to a gondola in a city or to a gondola who brings tourist to the mountain for hiking but not for stations used only for winter sport. On aerialways they are used generaly to move people up and down the mountain(all the year) is a private operator what maintain only this arealway or on some more important routes it is the local public transport organisation where you can move with the same tiket as with the bus, tram, train etc. Also thes aerialways are used during winter to bring people up to the winter sport, but there is no downhil piste so they have to use it up and down also when they go to skiing. In the most winter regions the gondola operating also during summer to bring up people to the area for hiking but this is the same operator as during winter. For this exists the aerialway:summer:access=yes/booth/exit/etc. tagging and not need aditional public transport tagging For me it is clear: No for public_transport tagging for aerialways what are generaly used for winter sport only during winter. No for aerialway in winter sport areas if the are used during summer to transport people. aerialway:summer:access=yes/booth/exit/etc. No for aerialway=goods Yes for public_transport tagging to aerialways they transport all days the comlete year peoples up and down Yes to aerialway in citys if they brin people up to a viewpoint/park/etc. Yes to aerialway they connect smal villages/hamlets to local bus stop or train stations I also opened yesterday a issue on the github site from iD but this was closed imediatly because of "there is nothing written in the Wiki" regards Gregor Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2020 at 10:31 AM From: "Martin Koppenhoefer" To: "Tag discussion, strategy and related tools" Subject: Re: [Tagging] iD semi automatic adding public_transport to aerialway=station Am Di., 31. März 2020 um 04:22 Uhr schrieb Gegorian Hauser <grenhau...@mail.com>: There are over 15000 aerialway stations in Europe and over 1000 are just tagged also with public_transport For me these combination is in the most situations wrong and for this iD should not have this "fixing" function. I agree that in most occasions (of which I am aware), tagging of aerialway stations with public transport seems strange (they are services related to leisure and not to necessary transportation). The numbers you are citing do not seem completely at odds with this (only 6,6% of aerialway stations tagged as public transport). I would not generally exclude that some aerialways are part of what is considered the public transport network, but I would also expect some of these tagged as public transport which are probably not by common understanding. Cheers Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] iD semi automatic adding public_transport to aerialway=station
When I was in Bursa, Turkey. There was a 'teleférico' that, I suppose ,was meant to bring people from the city to a skiing area. Since I was there in the summer though, I simply used to cool off in the mountains and escape the heat from the city below. I had to get a ticket, so I would consider that one to be public transport. Jo On Tue, Mar 31, 2020 at 10:33 AM Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: > Am Di., 31. März 2020 um 04:22 Uhr schrieb Gegorian Hauser < > grenhau...@mail.com>: > >> There are over 15000 aerialway stations in Europe and over 1000 are just >> tagged also with public_transport >> >> For me these combination is in the most situations wrong and for this iD >> should not have this "fixing" function. >> > > > > I agree that in most occasions (of which I am aware), tagging of aerialway > stations with public transport seems strange (they are services related to > leisure and not to necessary transportation). The numbers you are citing do > not seem completely at odds with this (only 6,6% of aerialway stations > tagged as public transport). I would not generally exclude that some > aerialways are part of what is considered the public transport network, but > I would also expect some of these tagged as public transport which are > probably not by common understanding. > > Cheers > Martin > ___ > Tagging mailing list > Tagging@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging > ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] iD semi automatic adding public_transport to aerialway=station
Am Di., 31. März 2020 um 04:22 Uhr schrieb Gegorian Hauser < grenhau...@mail.com>: > There are over 15000 aerialway stations in Europe and over 1000 are just > tagged also with public_transport > > For me these combination is in the most situations wrong and for this iD > should not have this "fixing" function. > I agree that in most occasions (of which I am aware), tagging of aerialway stations with public transport seems strange (they are services related to leisure and not to necessary transportation). The numbers you are citing do not seem completely at odds with this (only 6,6% of aerialway stations tagged as public transport). I would not generally exclude that some aerialways are part of what is considered the public transport network, but I would also expect some of these tagged as public transport which are probably not by common understanding. Cheers Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] iD semi automatic adding public_transport to aerialway=station
Agreed, public transport is certainly the exception here. Yves Le 31 mars 2020 04:21:25 GMT+02:00, Gegorian Hauser a écrit : >___ >Tagging mailing list >Tagging@openstreetmap.org >https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
[Tagging] iD semi automatic adding public_transport to aerialway=station
Hello, iD giving a message about all types of aerialway tations to add there the public transport tagging. For me the public transport tagging should not be addet to a winter sport aerialway. Winter sport areas main function it to having fun and not to transport people. Also iD is giving these function on goods they in the most cases are not allowed for people to access. The most aerialways are used for winter sports(zip line for fun) and only some smal ammount of gondola/cable_car/chair_lift etc. are used only for public transport. There are over 15000 aerialway stations in Europe and over 1000 are just tagged also with public_transport For me these combination is in the most situations wrong and for this iD should not have this "fixing" function. Maybe I am wrong with this, but if we add public_transport to winter sports we should also add public_transport to escalators, moving walkways, elevators, amusement ride, alpine slide etc. regards Gregor ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
