Re: [Tagging] [Talk-us] destination:street

[Duane Gearhart]

Hey Martijn,

Apologies for my delay getting back to you.

As suggested - I added a link on the destination page [1]

For this location [2] the interchange information would look like this:
destination=West Valley
destination:ref=UT 201 West
destination:street=1300 South;2100 South
as updated here [3]
Note how the destination:street values follow the OSM pattern of spelling
out street names. Also, the semicolon separated names are easily read into
a a list of exit branch street names.

If user would would continue and take exit 305C onto 1300 South [4] as
captured here [5]
then the software can rank, sort, and collapse the consecutive exit
information - therefore, "1300 South" would take precedence over "2100
South"
I briefly discussed this at SotM US 2015 [6] at 12:23 into the video.

I can follow-up with you after the OSM data has been processed with recent
edits.

Regards,
Duane

[1] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:destination#See_also
[2] http://openstreetcam.org/details/8230/168
[3] http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/37192513
[4] http://openstreetcam.org/details/8230/181
[5] http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/32028378
[6] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwglqOV6I9M



On Fri, Jan 20, 2017 at 3:02 PM, Martijn van Exel  wrote:

> Hi Duane,
>
> Thanks. I had overlooked the examples page (even though I searched the OSM
> wiki for the exact term!)
> I do appreciate the granularity of the destination:street tagging and
> would encourage the Telenav mappers to use it as well then, but we like to
> stick to conventions that are properly documented (not only in an example
> page). Since there is significant usage in N-America and some other regions
> [1], we could add it to the destination tag page [2]?
>
> My only issue with destination:street is that there’s still ambiguity when
> more than one street is on the sign, like here [3]. Would that then be
> destination:street=1300 So.;2100 So. and destination:ref=201 and
> destination:West Valley? The advantage of having a separate tag partly
> vanishes when you still need the semicolon separator?
>
> Martijn van Exel
>
> [1] http://taginfo.osm.org/keys/destination%3Astreet#map
> 
> [ 2]
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:destination
> [3] http://openstreetcam.org/details/8230/168
>
> 
>
> 
>
> On Jan 19, 2017, at 5:44 PM, Duane Gearhart  wrote:
>
> Hey Martijn,
>
> It looks correct to me - using the destination:street allows users to know
> if the ramp is branching onto the specified street name vs. heading toward
> a street name - examples are located here:
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Exit_Info#Road_name_Example
>
> Mappers have been using in the US too:
> http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/ln4
>
> Here is an example way:
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/11502773#map=19/39.21853/-76.65894
>
> You can see how it is used in the directions:
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/directions?engine=mapzen_car;
> route=39.22079%2C-76.65959%3B39.22139%2C-76.65428
>
> Regards,
> Duane
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jan 19, 2017 at 8:00 PM, Martijn van Exel  wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> The Telenav mapping team noticed quite a few destination:street tags on
>> (mostly) motorway_link off-ramps in Canada. This is an undocumented sub-tag
>> of the destination tag so I am curious how it is being used and if there is
>> some sort of consensus that is documented somewhere else than the OSM wiki.
>>
>> An Overpass query surfaced 1883 cases, http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/ln2
>>
>> Looking at a random one, http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/34154734 /
>> http://openstreetcam.org/details/10767/4194 — I think in the US we would
>> just map this as destination=Carman Road;Iriquois and destination:ref=1
>>
>> So my question is whether this is some relic of a past practice, or is
>> this actively used and encouraged mapping practice and if so, where should
>> it be documented? (https://wiki.openstreetmap.or
>> g/wiki/Proposed_features/Destination_details seems to be a good
>> candidate.)
>>
>> We’re happy to help improve these tags based on OSC / Mapillary data but
>> I wanted to make sure first that this is the way you all want to go.
>>
>> Happy mapping,
>>
>> Martijn van Exel
>>
>>
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Re: [Tagging] [Talk-us] destination:street

[Marc Zoutendijk]

> Op 23 jan. 2017, om 10:42 heeft Colin Smale  het 
> volgende geschreven:
> 
> It's a complete waste of time to have yet another debate about the pro's and 
> con's of semicolons vs suffixes and all the other possibilities, without 
> having some kind of mechanism in place, and the will, to actually make a 
> decision one way or the other.
> 

+1

Marc.

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Re: [Tagging] [Talk-us] destination:street

[Colin Smale]

On 2017-01-23 09:53, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:

> sent from a phone
> 
>> On 22 Jan 2017, at 22:18, Colin Smale  wrote:
>> 
>> Consumers who are not ready to handle multiple values in their data models 
>> can stop reading after the first value
> 
> consumers unaware of multiple values in the same field will see all those 
> multiple values together as just one value. Either you deal with multiple 
> values (even in some basic way like splitting the string and throwing away 
> most of it) or they will break the system for you. This means checking all 
> values of all tags if they might have to be split.

This subject has been discussed so many times in the past, over several
years. It seems that OSM is incapable of moving forward. The current
data model does not accommodate multi-valued attributes, and in the
absence of leadership, many competing systems have been brought forward
and come into use. None of them is perfect, none of them suit everybody.
If the data model is to evolve to included MVAs with some kind of
structured approach, choices have to be made and not everyone will be
happy. That's the price of progress - you can't make an omelette without
breaking eggs. 

It's a complete waste of time to have yet another debate about the pro's
and con's of semicolons vs suffixes and all the other possibilities,
without having some kind of mechanism in place, and the will, to
actually make a decision one way or the other. 

By the way, it wouldn't be the first time the data model has changed in
a way that broke some data consumers. The IDs were extended from 32 bits
to 64 bits. That meant all consumers needed to review their code and
adapt to the change. 

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Re: [Tagging] [Talk-us] destination:street

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> On 22 Jan 2017, at 22:18, Colin Smale  wrote:
> 
> Consumers who are not ready to handle multiple values in their data models 
> can stop reading after the first value


consumers unaware of multiple values in the same field will see all those 
multiple values together as just one value. Either you deal with multiple 
values (even in some basic way like splitting the string and throwing away most 
of it) or they will break the system for you. This means checking all values of 
all tags if they might have to be split.

cheers,
Martin 
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Re: [Tagging] [Talk-us] destination:street

[Marc Gemis]

On Sun, Jan 22, 2017 at 8:41 PM, yo paseopor  wrote:
>> I would expect that each value for destination only occurs a small
>> number of times, especially when there are multiple destinations.  Why
>> would a certain combination of destinations occurs more than a handful
>> of times ? Hence, you will not find them in the top values on taginfo.
>
>
> So you say each value...(are we talking about multiple values or values with
> semicolon?). What are the most used values: unique or multiple? Why don't we
> use multiple values more often?

Taginfo only shows how often a value occurs. When a lot of way have
destination Rome, the destination=Rome will occur often and taginfo
will reflect that. When there are not a lot of
destination=some-remote-place, they will be found with low counts on
the last pages of  taginfo for destination

When there are not a lot of destination=place1;place2 you will not see
that in taginfo. destination=place1;place3 is counted separately. They
are not counted for place1, nor place2, nor place3. I can imaging that
the combination of place1 and place2 is not a destination  that occurs
often, maybe on 1 or exits ?

I didn't conduct any experiments, but I did not use the claim from the
wiki text that one notation is easier than the other like you did.
Claiming that one notation is easier than the other can only be done
after experiments. I just said "I wonder whether".


m

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Re: [Tagging] [Talk-us] destination:street

[Johan C]

2017-01-22 22:32 GMT+01:00 yo paseopor :

> I need help. How to tag a roundabout destination traffic sign
> https://www.mapillary.com/map/im/6bMYhgICHVBL_H70ZnyPAg ? With
> correspondence it is easy (for me), but I don't know how to do it with
> multiple values.
>
>
Please check it out (in JOSM for example). A bit strange, but the motorway
exit had an exit_to instead of a destination. I added the destination to
it. And the symbol as a separate value.


> Also I hope OSM people will advise strongly Finnish people as they are
> using suffixed tags..
>
> And at last but not least Mapbox Streets will need help to process
> correctly all the information of OSM without cropping some information.
>
> Cheers (Salut i senyals)
> yopaseopor
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Tagging] [Talk-us] destination:street

[yo paseopor]

I need help. How to tag a roundabout destination traffic sign
https://www.mapillary.com/map/im/6bMYhgICHVBL_H70ZnyPAg ? With
correspondence it is easy (for me), but I don't know how to do it with
multiple values.

Also I hope OSM people will advise strongly Finnish people as they are
using suffixed tags..

And at last but not least Mapbox Streets will need help to process
correctly all the information of OSM without cropping some information.

Cheers (Salut i senyals)
yopaseopor
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Re: [Tagging] [Talk-us] destination:street

[Colin Smale]

On 2017-01-22 21:51, Hakuch wrote:

> On 22.01.2017 21:20, yo paseopor wrote: 
> 
>> As you can see order is not random. In Catalonia is the same. How do you
>> make correspondence with the order.
> 
> But I agree, when there is really a important sense in order of the
> values, putting them in a multiple value could be wrong

The semicolon syntax, and all the other suggestions for multiple values,
all give ordered lists. All we need to do is to declare that the first
value is primary or dominant, and we are there. Consumers who are not
ready to handle multiple values in their data models can stop reading
after the first value and they still get a reasonable value to use. It
is a rather inconvenient truth that the real world has multi-valued
attributes, but that is not about to go away. 

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Re: [Tagging] [Talk-us] destination:street

[Hakuch]

On 22.01.2017 21:20, yo paseopor wrote:
> As you can see order is not random. In Catalonia is the same. How do you
> make correspondence with the order. 

But I agree, when there is really a important sense in order of the
values, putting them in a multiple value could be wrong

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Re: [Tagging] [Talk-us] destination:street

[Hakuch]

On 22.01.2017 21:20, yo paseopor wrote:
>>
>> Following this, you could try to find semantic weight for the different
>> destinations and discuss/use them. But when there is none (what I
>> assume),
> 
> Spanish ministery responsible of the roads did not think that
> 
> http://www.fomento.es/NR/rdonlyres/FC57DE0A-72BF-408F-
> 810E-467894BA8E38/110896/1110853.pdf

sorry I dont understand what this document shows, I cant speak spanish.
Maybe there is a traffic sign that you can show?


> 
> As you can see order is not random. In Catalonia is the same. How do you
> make correspondence with the order. How you "extract" one unic value from
> "multiple value" value?

consumers seperate the value into an array of values (in php for
example: $values = explode(';', $value))

greets

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Re: [Tagging] [Talk-us] destination:street

[yo paseopor]

>
> Following this, you could try to find semantic weight for the different
> destinations and discuss/use them. But when there is none (what I
> assume),

Spanish ministery responsible of the roads did not think that

http://www.fomento.es/NR/rdonlyres/FC57DE0A-72BF-408F-
810E-467894BA8E38/110896/1110853.pdf

As you can see order is not random. In Catalonia is the same. How do you
make correspondence with the order. How you "extract" one unic value from
"multiple value" value?

Cheers (Salut i Senyals)
yopaseopor
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Re: [Tagging] [Talk-us] destination:street

[Hakuch]

On 22.01.2017 20:41, yo paseopor wrote:
> So you say each value...(are we talking about multiple values or values
> with semicolon?). What are the most used values: unique or multiple? Why
> don't we use multiple values more often?

Like I said in my other post, the wiki is not very clear here, but the
problem pointed out there is not the semicolon itself (not only) but the
main target is to avoid multiple values when there are better methods to
collect them (old_name, loc_name etc. for example)

> Because it follows one tag-one value policy I supose. But I don't know why
> in the wiki I read "avoid semicolons"...if it is the best way to manage
> multiple values. https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Multiple_values
>  .Change the wiki to
> encourage people to use multiple values.

no, we dont want to encourage people to use multiple values, but to use
the semicolon when it is really necessary to use multiple values.


In the past, there could have been other decissions to mark multiple
values. Some may argue that it would have been better to mark the MV on
the Key instead on the Value. But that decission has been made: Multiple
Values are marked with a semicolon on the Value, Keys should not be
marked (unfortunately the iD does...).

Even when one may prefer other variants it should be accepted because to
have two standards is worse than having one ugly but working standard.

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Re: [Tagging] [Talk-us] destination:street

[Hakuch]

On 22.01.2017 11:09, yo paseopor wrote:
> It's true, but OSM wiki, the tool people like me who tries to learn how to
> do something uses says that:
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Semi-colon_value_separator#When_NOT_to_use
> .
> Change the wiki please if it is not.

The wiki is correct at this point, but your interpretation is not.
Regarding the Wiki, you should avoid semicolons whenever possible,
though not because of the semicolons but because of the multiple values.
So it makes not sense to replace one style of multiple values with
another one. The target is not to use multipe values at all, however
they are marked (with semicolons, with _2 or with your :2 style).
It means, that you should always try to use or to create taggings with
semantic weight, for example old_name, loc_name, short_name instead of
name=name1;name2;name3

Following this, you could try to find semantic weight for the different
destinations and discuss/use them. But when there is none (what I
assume), you should use the default multiple value scheme, and thats
what the semicolon has been chosen for (and not _1 and not any new
creations)

best regards, hakuch

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Re: [Tagging] [Talk-us] destination:street

[yo paseopor]

> I would expect that each value for destination only occurs a small
> number of times, especially when there are multiple destinations.  Why
> would a certain combination of destinations occurs more than a handful
> of times ? Hence, you will not find them in the top values on taginfo.
>

So you say each value...(are we talking about multiple values or values
with semicolon?). What are the most used values: unique or multiple? Why
don't we use multiple values more often?


> I also wonder whether any key with "_1" or ":1" is better  for
> beginners than semi colons.
>

Because it follows one tag-one value policy I supose. But I don't know why
in the wiki I read "avoid semicolons"...if it is the best way to manage
multiple values. https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Multiple_values
 .Change the wiki to
encourage people to use multiple values.

"

*When (not) to use multiple valuesFor better or worse, a mapper's first
reaction to MV tags should be to avoid them. This is largely because many
data consumers do not handle MV tags well, either because they didn't
expect them or because handling them is complicated. As the OSM data model
doesn't directly support multiple values, they have been tacked-on with
various degrees of akwardness.*"


> Did you do an experiment with a large number of beginners ?
>
No. Did you do it about semicolons? What are the results?

>
> I also wonder which Overpass query is easier to compose, one that has
> to take the semi-colons into account or one that has to query for "_X"
> (or :X). Again a large experiment has never been conducted AFAIK, so
> no-one really knows.
>
Also I did not any scientific experiment. Did you do it with semicolons?
What are the results? It will be interesting to know it.

Cheers (Salut i senyals)
yopaseopor
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Re: [Tagging] [Talk-us] destination:street

[Marc Gemis]

On Sun, Jan 22, 2017 at 11:09 AM, yo paseopor  wrote:
> And if you search top100 list there are only 12 values with semicolon , 2
> with comma . All these values together are only 1792 tagged values...from
> 71665 total values.

I would expect that each value for destination only occurs a small
number of times, especially when there are multiple destinations.  Why
would a certain combination of destinations occurs more than a handful
of times ? Hence, you will not find them in the top values on taginfo.

I also wonder whether any key with "_1" or ":1" is better  for
beginners than semi colons.
Did you do an experiment with a large number of beginners ?

I also wonder which Overpass query is easier to compose, one that has
to take the semi-colons into account or one that has to query for "_X"
(or :X). Again a large experiment has never been conducted AFAIK, so
no-one really knows.

m.

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Re: [Tagging] [Talk-us] destination:street

[Paul Johnson]

On Sat, Jan 21, 2017 at 8:21 AM, yo paseopor  wrote:

> Other solution
> destination=Main Street
> destination:2=7th Avenue
> destination:3=Downtown Mappersville
> destination:4=Karte County Courthouse
> ... and so on.
>

Is this actually being used by anyone?  Semicolons have seperated multiple
values for longer than I've been with OSM, which is like, 8 years  now...
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Re: [Tagging] [Talk-us] destination:street

[Johan C]

I don't like your idea yopaseopor.

Why:
1. It's not forbidden to use a semicolon: 'But there are cases where
semicolons work and, anyway, we can’t completely avoid them. Let’s work on
defining our data model better and make it clearer where those semicolons
can and should be used and how they are to be interpreted.'
(*https://blog.jochentopf.com/2013-09-23-semicolons-in-osm-tags.html
) *

2. As you think it's more easy to use destination1=* for newbies, I think
it's way more complicated, since 1 has no meaning. And it creates
confusion: you might use destination1, others destination_1, and some
others destination:1

3. As pointed out here:
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Remove_suffixed_name-tags_from_wiki
name_1 suffixed name tagging for multiple values is deprecated

4. The semicolon in destinations, and refs, are already in use for quite a
long time. So what you are proposing creates (again) multiple tagging
systems in OSM to solve the same challenge.

5. Any renderer can make a split, simply by checking for the semicolon.

Cheers, Johan

2017-01-22 11:09 GMT+01:00 yo paseopor :

> It's true, but OSM wiki, the tool people like me who tries to learn how to
> do something uses says that: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Semi-
> colon_value_separator#When_NOT_to_use.
> Change the wiki please if it is not.
>
> Wiki explains
>
> "In general *avoid ';' separated values whenever possible*. Don't use
> them in your mapping, and don't propose them on the wiki if there are
> better ways of representing things. This is because use of semi-colons as
> value separators is contrary to the aim of *keeping it simple* both for
> data *contributors* (mappers) and data *users*. For the sake of new
> contributors and anyone trying to *use* the data (people building
> software for rendering, searching, "find my nearest cafe" mobile apps, etc)
> we should minimise use of values with special characters.
>
> It is particularly important to (wherever reasonably possible) avoid ';'
> separated values in more important "top-level" tags. That is, tags which
> define what an element is." Is not Destination value also so important?
>
>
> Also there's some software who...does not support semicolon:
>
>
> "Mapbox Streets
> 
>  replaces ; with a spaced em dash ( — ) in any name
> =* or name:*
> =* tag. For primary keys
> such as amenity =* or
> shop =*, it considers only
> the portion up to the first semicolon and drops the rest."
>
>  I think dropping data is not a good way of working with OSM :(
>
>
> Taginfo says also there's some destination:x in Germany. For example
> http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/destination%3A1
>
> http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/destination%3A2
>
> http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/destination%3A3
>
> and so on...
>
> Also if you see the list in taginfo about destination values you will see
> only two in top20 list (well ,one is with comma so also there's some
> problems of standarization)  from the most tagged values: http://taginfo.
> openstreetmap.org/keys/destination#values
>
> And if you search top100 list there are only 12 values with semicolon , 2
> with comma . All these values together are only 1792 tagged values...from
> 71665 total values.
>
>
> I think one tag one value it is the best standard for traffic signs also
> to make it easier for the begginners and newbies.
>
>
> Cheers (Salut i senyals)
>
> yopaseopor
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Tagging] [Talk-us] destination:street

[yo paseopor]

It's true, but OSM wiki, the tool people like me who tries to learn how to
do something uses says that:
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Semi-colon_value_separator#When_NOT_to_use
.
Change the wiki please if it is not.

Wiki explains

"In general *avoid ';' separated values whenever possible*. Don't use them
in your mapping, and don't propose them on the wiki if there are better
ways of representing things. This is because use of semi-colons as value
separators is contrary to the aim of *keeping it simple* both for data
*contributors* (mappers) and data *users*. For the sake of new contributors
and anyone trying to *use* the data (people building software for
rendering, searching, "find my nearest cafe" mobile apps, etc) we should
minimise use of values with special characters.

It is particularly important to (wherever reasonably possible) avoid ';'
separated values in more important "top-level" tags. That is, tags which
define what an element is." Is not Destination value also so important?


Also there's some software who...does not support semicolon:


"Mapbox Streets

 replaces ; with a spaced em dash ( — ) in any name
=* or name:*
=* tag. For primary keys such
as amenity =* or shop
=*, it considers only the
portion up to the first semicolon and drops the rest."

 I think dropping data is not a good way of working with OSM :(


Taginfo says also there's some destination:x in Germany. For example
http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/destination%3A1

http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/destination%3A2

http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/destination%3A3

and so on...

Also if you see the list in taginfo about destination values you will see
only two in top20 list (well ,one is with comma so also there's some
problems of standarization)  from the most tagged values:
http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/destination#values

And if you search top100 list there are only 12 values with semicolon , 2
with comma . All these values together are only 1792 tagged values...from
71665 total values.


I think one tag one value it is the best standard for traffic signs also to
make it easier for the begginners and newbies.


Cheers (Salut i senyals)

yopaseopor
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Re: [Tagging] [Talk-us] destination:street

[Marc Gemis]

tools such as http://osm.mueschelsoft.de/cgi-bin/render.pl support the
semi-column notation, not the number notation. I assume most
destination signs in Germany and neighbouring countries are using the
semi-column notation.



On Sat, Jan 21, 2017 at 11:00 PM, yo paseopor  wrote:
> With destination:x you mark in a easy way the correspondence with other
> tags.Destination:2 goes with distance:2 and with destination:symbol:2 for
> example. It is an easy way to see the correspondence. For people like me (we
> have less idea to program something like a preset or a style in JOSM, for
> example) it is easier to identify , clarify and verify the :2 value than the
> second of a list of 5 with semicolons. Also these values are easier to be
> followed.
>
> And also you can read it at
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Semi-colon_value_separator#When_NOT_to_use
>
> Cheers (Salut i Senyals)
> yopaseopor
>
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Re: [Tagging] [Talk-us] destination:street

[yo paseopor]

With destination:x you mark in a easy way the correspondence with other
tags.Destination:2 goes with distance:2 and with destination:symbol:2 for
example. It is an easy way to see the correspondence. For people like me
(we have less idea to program something like a preset or a style in JOSM,
for example) it is easier to identify , clarify and verify the :2 value
than the second of a list of 5 with semicolons. Also these values are
easier to be followed.

And also you can read it at
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Semi-colon_value_separator#When_NOT_to_use

Cheers (Salut i Senyals)
yopaseopor
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Re: [Tagging] [Talk-us] destination:street

[Marc Gemis]

Why is destination:X better than a list with semi-colons ?

I think that semi-colons in the destination tags are already to
wide-spread to be stopped. Data consumers like OsmAnd have no problem
with the semi-colons.

m

On Sat, Jan 21, 2017 at 3:21 PM, yo paseopor  wrote:
> Other solution
> destination=Main Street
> destination:2=7th Avenue
> destination:3=Downtown Mappersville
> destination:4=Karte County Courthouse
> ... and so on.
>
> (for legible reasons a "standard" traffic sign does not show more than 3/4
> items by direction at sign).
> also this will be "portable" to other countries and other signs systems
> (based on Vienna convention for example).
>
> yopaseopor
>
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Re: [Tagging] [Talk-us] destination:street

[yo paseopor]

Other solution
destination=Main Street
destination:2=7th Avenue
destination:3=Downtown Mappersville
destination:4=Karte County Courthouse
... and so on.

(for legible reasons a "standard" traffic sign does not show more than 3/4
items by direction at sign).
also this will be "portable" to other countries and other signs systems
(based on Vienna convention for example).

yopaseopor
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Re: [Tagging] [Talk-us] destination:street

[Paul Johnson]

On Fri, Jan 20, 2017 at 2:13 PM, yo paseopor  wrote:

> Little apreciation:
> Please, no multiple values,no semicolon.Better subtags
>

That doesn't always work.  Fictional example, but one that does come up
routinely, particularly around small to moderate sized towns and rural
America (imagine a big-green-sign).

Main Street
7th Avenue
Downtown Mappersville
Karte County Courthouse

There you'd have a perfectly valid reason to have multiple destinations and
destination:streets...
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Re: [Tagging] [Talk-us] destination:street

[yo paseopor]

Little apreciation:
Please, no multiple values,no semicolon.Better subtags

yopaseopor
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Re: [Tagging] [Talk-us] destination:street

[Martijn van Exel]

Hi Duane, 

Thanks. I had overlooked the examples page (even though I searched the OSM wiki 
for the exact term!)
I do appreciate the granularity of the destination:street tagging and would 
encourage the Telenav mappers to use it as well then, but we like to stick to 
conventions that are properly documented (not only in an example page). Since 
there is significant usage in N-America and some other regions [1], we could 
add it to the destination tag page [2]? 

My only issue with destination:street is that there’s still ambiguity when more 
than one street is on the sign, like here [3]. Would that then be 
destination:street=1300 So.;2100 So. and destination:ref=201 and 
destination:West Valley? The advantage of having a separate tag partly vanishes 
when you still need the semicolon separator?

Martijn van Exel

[1] http://taginfo.osm.org/keys/destination%3Astreet#map
 
[ 2] 
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:destination 

[3] http://openstreetcam.org/details/8230/168 


 

 
> On Jan 19, 2017, at 5:44 PM, Duane Gearhart  wrote:
> 
> Hey Martijn,
> 
> It looks correct to me - using the destination:street allows users to know if 
> the ramp is branching onto the specified street name vs. heading toward a 
> street name - examples are located here:
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Exit_Info#Road_name_Example 
> 
> 
> Mappers have been using in the US too:
> http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/ln4 
> 
> Here is an example way:
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/11502773#map=19/39.21853/-76.65894 
> 
> 
> You can see how it is used in the directions:
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/directions?engine=mapzen_car=39.22079%2C-76.65959%3B39.22139%2C-76.65428
>  
> 
> 
> Regards,
> Duane
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Thu, Jan 19, 2017 at 8:00 PM, Martijn van Exel  > wrote:
> Hi all, 
> 
> The Telenav mapping team noticed quite a few destination:street tags on 
> (mostly) motorway_link off-ramps in Canada. This is an undocumented sub-tag 
> of the destination tag so I am curious how it is being used and if there is 
> some sort of consensus that is documented somewhere else than the OSM wiki.
> 
> An Overpass query surfaced 1883 cases, http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/ln2 
>   
> 
> Looking at a random one, http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/34154734 
>  / 
> http://openstreetcam.org/details/10767/4194 
>  — I think in the US we would 
> just map this as destination=Carman Road;Iriquois and destination:ref=1
> 
> So my question is whether this is some relic of a past practice, or is this 
> actively used and encouraged mapping practice and if so, where should it be 
> documented? 
> (https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Destination_details 
>  
> seems to be a good candidate.)
> 
> We’re happy to help improve these tags based on OSC / Mapillary data but I 
> wanted to make sure first that this is the way you all want to go.
> 
> Happy mapping,
> 
> Martijn van Exel
> 
> 
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Re: [Tagging] [Talk-us] destination:street

[Martijn van Exel]

In the US the prefix would typically be in the network tag, like network=US:US 
ref=89 for US highway 89, etc.
We have seen some of this in Canada as well. (CA:ON for Ontario highways etc.)
Martijn van Exel

> On Jan 20, 2017, at 12:57 AM, Paul Norman  wrote:
> 
> On 1/19/2017 5:00 PM, Martijn van Exel wrote:
>> Looking at a random one, http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/34154734 / 
>> http://openstreetcam.org/details/10767/4194 — I think in the US we would 
>> just map this as destination=Carman Road;Iriquois and destination:ref=1
> 
> That is how it would be typically mapped in Canada in my experience, although 
> it might have a prefix to the ref.

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Re: [Tagging] [Talk-us] destination:street

[Paul Norman]

On 1/19/2017 5:00 PM, Martijn van Exel wrote:
Looking at a random one, http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/34154734 / 
http://openstreetcam.org/details/10767/4194 — I think in the US we 
would just map this as destination=Carman Road;Iriquois and 
destination:ref=1


That is how it would be typically mapped in Canada in my experience, 
although it might have a prefix to the ref.


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