Re: [Tagging] Breakdown bays?
The bus bays and breakdown bays are short sections that exit from the nearest highway and return back to it, not too complex to tag as highway=service and service=bus_bay or breakdown_bay? Some breakdown bays have emergency telephones too. I've not bothered with platform way here .. too many other things to do. On 28/02/2015 6:43 PM, Mateusz Konieczny wrote: Tagging lanes/bays as separate ways seems wrong. It ends in complex junctions where every lane has its own highway=*. http://www.openstreetmap.org/?mlat=50.04570mlon=19.92147#map=19/50.04570/19.92147 https://cloud.githubusercontent.com/assets/899988/6425360/dfbdf646-bf25-11e4-9aca-20b25eab450f.png 2015-02-27 19:23 GMT+01:00 Colin Smale colin.sm...@xs4all.nl mailto:colin.sm...@xs4all.nl: Bus bays like this? https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/287489422 On 2015-02-27 18:38, Jo wrote: I can't help but keep hoping that a way to tag bus bays emerges as a side product of this discussion. At the moment I'm resorting to drawing the platform way, the cycleway or the landuse around them, but there are cases where the cycleway goes straight through them, as well and that's not really mapping the feature itself, of course. https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/288901664 For somebody who'd, for example, want to make statistics on the number of such bays, that's totally useless. I know. Jo 2015-02-27 18:00 GMT+01:00 Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com mailto:dieterdre...@gmail.com: 2015-02-27 17:33 GMT+01:00 Bryce Nesbitt bry...@obviously.com mailto:bry...@obviously.com: These bays are, in a sense, very restricted amenity=parking, I agree on landuse=highway (because they are clearly part of the highway), although that doesn't seem to be a very helpful way of tagging, I'd also include them in area:highway but they are in no way amenity=parking in my understanding. parking is different from break-down even if it might look similar (car is not moving). cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org mailto:Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org mailto:Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org mailto:Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Breakdown bays?
Like those, but to me it doesn't feel right to draw a separate service way for them. There is no division like between dual carriageways. It's merely the road that becomes a bit wider, so the buses can get out of the way of the other traffic. Drawing the platform as a separate way, or the cycleway that becomes detached is not a problem, but indirect. Jo 2015-02-27 19:23 GMT+01:00 Colin Smale colin.sm...@xs4all.nl: Bus bays like this? https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/287489422 On 2015-02-27 18:38, Jo wrote: I can't help but keep hoping that a way to tag bus bays emerges as a side product of this discussion. At the moment I'm resorting to drawing the platform way, the cycleway or the landuse around them, but there are cases where the cycleway goes straight through them, as well and that's not really mapping the feature itself, of course. https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/288901664 For somebody who'd, for example, want to make statistics on the number of such bays, that's totally useless. I know. Jo 2015-02-27 18:00 GMT+01:00 Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com: 2015-02-27 17:33 GMT+01:00 Bryce Nesbitt bry...@obviously.com: These bays are, in a sense, very restricted amenity=parking, I agree on landuse=highway (because they are clearly part of the highway), although that doesn't seem to be a very helpful way of tagging, I'd also include them in area:highway but they are in no way amenity=parking in my understanding. parking is different from break-down even if it might look similar (car is not moving). cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing listTagging@openstreetmap.orghttps://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Breakdown bays?
Tagging lanes/bays as separate ways seems wrong. It ends in complex junctions where every lane has its own highway=*. http://www.openstreetmap.org/?mlat=50.04570mlon=19.92147#map=19/50.04570/19.92147 https://cloud.githubusercontent.com/assets/899988/6425360/dfbdf646-bf25-11e4-9aca-20b25eab450f.png 2015-02-27 19:23 GMT+01:00 Colin Smale colin.sm...@xs4all.nl: Bus bays like this? https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/287489422 On 2015-02-27 18:38, Jo wrote: I can't help but keep hoping that a way to tag bus bays emerges as a side product of this discussion. At the moment I'm resorting to drawing the platform way, the cycleway or the landuse around them, but there are cases where the cycleway goes straight through them, as well and that's not really mapping the feature itself, of course. https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/288901664 For somebody who'd, for example, want to make statistics on the number of such bays, that's totally useless. I know. Jo 2015-02-27 18:00 GMT+01:00 Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com: 2015-02-27 17:33 GMT+01:00 Bryce Nesbitt bry...@obviously.com: These bays are, in a sense, very restricted amenity=parking, I agree on landuse=highway (because they are clearly part of the highway), although that doesn't seem to be a very helpful way of tagging, I'd also include them in area:highway but they are in no way amenity=parking in my understanding. parking is different from break-down even if it might look similar (car is not moving). cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing listTagging@openstreetmap.orghttps://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Breakdown bays?
2015-02-27 17:33 GMT+01:00 Bryce Nesbitt bry...@obviously.com: These bays are, in a sense, very restricted amenity=parking, I agree on landuse=highway (because they are clearly part of the highway), although that doesn't seem to be a very helpful way of tagging, I'd also include them in area:highway but they are in no way amenity=parking in my understanding. parking is different from break-down even if it might look similar (car is not moving). cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Breakdown bays?
I can't help but keep hoping that a way to tag bus bays emerges as a side product of this discussion. At the moment I'm resorting to drawing the platform way, the cycleway or the landuse around them, but there are cases where the cycleway goes straight through them, as well and that's not really mapping the feature itself, of course. https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/288901664 For somebody who'd, for example, want to make statistics on the number of such bays, that's totally useless. I know. Jo 2015-02-27 18:00 GMT+01:00 Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com: 2015-02-27 17:33 GMT+01:00 Bryce Nesbitt bry...@obviously.com: These bays are, in a sense, very restricted amenity=parking, I agree on landuse=highway (because they are clearly part of the highway), although that doesn't seem to be a very helpful way of tagging, I'd also include them in area:highway but they are in no way amenity=parking in my understanding. parking is different from break-down even if it might look similar (car is not moving). cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Breakdown bays?
Bus bays like this? https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/287489422 On 2015-02-27 18:38, Jo wrote: I can't help but keep hoping that a way to tag bus bays emerges as a side product of this discussion. At the moment I'm resorting to drawing the platform way, the cycleway or the landuse around them, but there are cases where the cycleway goes straight through them, as well and that's not really mapping the feature itself, of course. https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/288901664 [1] For somebody who'd, for example, want to make statistics on the number of such bays, that's totally useless. I know. Jo 2015-02-27 18:00 GMT+01:00 Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com: 2015-02-27 17:33 GMT+01:00 Bryce Nesbitt bry...@obviously.com: These bays are, in a sense, very restricted amenity=parking, I agree on landuse=highway (because they are clearly part of the highway), although that doesn't seem to be a very helpful way of tagging, I'd also include them in area:highway but they are in no way amenity=parking in my understanding. parking is different from break-down even if it might look similar (car is not moving). cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging [2] ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging [2] Links: -- [1] https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/288901664 [2] https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Breakdown bays?
Did sleep one night and now think we should include bays and lanes within the lanes:-Tagging lanes=3 lanes:forward=2 lanes:backward=1 access:lanes:forward=yes|yes|emergency access:lanes:backward=yes|emergency All together I am not happy with the description of lanes=* and lanes:*=* anymore. Where is it useful as we already do not count bicycle lanes but do count exclusive bus or taxi lanes and even ones with access forbidden but wide enough for motorized vehicles. Would prefer to change lanes=* and lanes:*=* to be the numbers with general access allowed and adding all additional lanes with access:lanes: lanes=2 lanes:forward=1 lanes:backward=1 access:lanes:forward=yes|no|no access:lanes:backward=yes|no bicycle:lanes:forward=yes|designated|no bicycle:lanes:backward=yes|yes bus:lanes:forward=yes|no|designated bus:lanes:backward=yes|designated taxi:lanes:backward=yes|yes width:lanes:forward=3|1.5|2.5 width:lanes:backward=3|3 Would be a road with forward a normal lane, a bicycle lane and either bus bay or bus lane (depending on length) and backward a normal lane and a bus lane with bicycle and taxi allowed. Am 26.02.2015 um 09:04 schrieb Martin Vonwald: 2015-02-25 16:52 GMT+01:00 fly lowfligh...@googlemail.com: Well, emergency=bay might interfere with access tagging and we should probably use left/right as you will find them not only on dual carriage roads. emergency_bay=both/left/right ? That seems reasonable to me. How do we tag emergency lanes ? I asked that some time ago, but afaik there's no solution (yet). ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Breakdown bays?
Hi! 2015-02-27 16:22 GMT+01:00 fly lowfligh...@googlemail.com: Did sleep one night and now think we should include bays and lanes within the lanes:-Tagging lanes=3 lanes:forward=2 lanes:backward=1 access:lanes:forward=yes|yes|emergency access:lanes:backward=yes|emergency To me it just does not feel right. I don't see a lane there... All together I am not happy with the description of lanes=* and lanes:*=* anymore. Where is it useful as we already do not count bicycle lanes but do count exclusive bus or taxi lanes and even ones with access forbidden but wide enough for motorized vehicles. The key lanes and its subkeys are a misconception par excellence, no doubt there. Would prefer to change lanes=* and lanes:*=* to be the numbers with general access allowed and adding all additional lanes with access:lanes: I'm all in! Changing the meaning of a key that's used about 5 million times might get a little tricky though. lanes=2 lanes:forward=1 lanes:backward=1 I wouldn't use lanes=2 in this example. 1+1=2 access:lanes:forward=yes|no|no access:lanes:backward=yes|no bicycle:lanes:forward=yes|designated|no bicycle:lanes:backward=yes|yes bus:lanes:forward=yes|no|designated bus:lanes:backward=yes|designated taxi:lanes:backward=yes|yes That's an excellent example why the current access scheme sucks for this. traffic_designation:lanes:forward=none|bicycle|bus traffic_designation:lanes:backward=none|bicycle;taxi Wouldn't that be A LOT easier? Best regards, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Breakdown bays?
2015-02-25 19:56 GMT+01:00 Ole Nielsen on-...@xs4all.nl: On 25/02/2015 16:41, Martin Vonwald wrote: I don't think of them as lanes, so I wouldn't use some :lanes-tag. I thought that there is already a tag, that I simply put on the road for the length of the bay - just like e.g. sidewalk=right. But that's obviously not the case and it is not possible with highway=emergency_bay. When tagged as node I lose the length. Tagging as separate way seem counter-intuitive - there is no separate road. Tagging as area seems... strange ;-) Well, we already have the approved feature http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/ wiki/Tag:highway%3Dpassing_place for features of a very similar physical nature but for a different purpose. The consistent solution is to use highway=emergency_bay on nodes in the same way as for passing places. Consistent, but missing details. And why do you want that kind of details? If it is tagged as emergency_bay you know it is big enough for a broken down vehicle. That is the only information you really need if you are having car problems. We do not tag for broken cars ;-) And adding an attribute to a short section of highway just results in further (in my opinion unnecessary) fragmentation of highways. There are many different opinions on that matter. If an attribute of the road changes, I split. If you really want to add the length you could use maxlength=* for the maximum vehicle length fitting in the bay. Why measure the length and add a tag instead of simply putting a tag along the bay on the road? That seems a little bit too complicated to me. That would also be easier for data consumers to process. Are you speaking for all data consumers? Yesterdays solutions might not work tomorrow. Best regards, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Breakdown bays?
2015-02-25 16:52 GMT+01:00 fly lowfligh...@googlemail.com: Well, emergency=bay might interfere with access tagging and we should probably use left/right as you will find them not only on dual carriage roads. emergency_bay=both/left/right ? That seems reasonable to me. How do we tag emergency lanes ? I asked that some time ago, but afaik there's no solution (yet). ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Breakdown bays?
2015-02-25 15:20 GMT+01:00 Martin Vonwald imagic@gmail.com: I obviously forgot how to tag breakdown bays (lay-bys, german: Pannenbucht), something like this: http://binged.it/1LCYpoM Couldn't find anything in the wiki or taginfo. could be something for the emergency key? Or highway. cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Breakdown bays?
2015-02-25 16:34 GMT+01:00 fly lowfligh...@googlemail.com: So what do you have in mind ? Tagging them as additional tag on the way with highway=*? Using lanes:-Tagging ? I don't think of them as lanes, so I wouldn't use some :lanes-tag. I thought that there is already a tag, that I simply put on the road for the length of the bay - just like e.g. sidewalk=right. But that's obviously not the case and it is not possible with highway=emergency_bay. When tagged as node I lose the length. Tagging as separate way seem counter-intuitive - there is no separate road. Tagging as area seems... strange ;-) Best regards, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Breakdown bays?
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/emergency_bay On 25 February 2015 at 15:33, Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: 2015-02-25 15:20 GMT+01:00 Martin Vonwald imagic@gmail.com: I obviously forgot how to tag breakdown bays (lay-bys, german: Pannenbucht), something like this: http://binged.it/1LCYpoM Couldn't find anything in the wiki or taginfo. could be something for the emergency key? Or highway. cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Breakdown bays?
Hm...had a quick look how they are tagged and I'm not really convinced. They are tagged as area beside the road (without any connection) or as individual roads. In my opinion both does not fit well :-/ Thanks anyway, Martin 2015-02-25 16:11 GMT+01:00 Volker Schmidt vosc...@gmail.com: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/emergency_bay On 25 February 2015 at 15:33, Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: 2015-02-25 15:20 GMT+01:00 Martin Vonwald imagic@gmail.com: I obviously forgot how to tag breakdown bays (lay-bys, german: Pannenbucht), something like this: http://binged.it/1LCYpoM Couldn't find anything in the wiki or taginfo. could be something for the emergency key? Or highway. cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Breakdown bays?
Here in Italy they are tagged in some areas and as nodes: http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/7SA On 25 February 2015 at 16:19, Martin Vonwald imagic@gmail.com wrote: Hm...had a quick look how they are tagged and I'm not really convinced. They are tagged as area beside the road (without any connection) or as individual roads. In my opinion both does not fit well :-/ Thanks anyway, Martin 2015-02-25 16:11 GMT+01:00 Volker Schmidt vosc...@gmail.com: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/emergency_bay On 25 February 2015 at 15:33, Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: 2015-02-25 15:20 GMT+01:00 Martin Vonwald imagic@gmail.com: I obviously forgot how to tag breakdown bays (lay-bys, german: Pannenbucht), something like this: http://binged.it/1LCYpoM Couldn't find anything in the wiki or taginfo. could be something for the emergency key? Or highway. cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Breakdown bays?
Am 25.02.2015 um 16:19 schrieb Martin Vonwald: Hm...had a quick look how they are tagged and I'm not really convinced. They are tagged as area beside the road (without any connection) or as individual roads. In my opinion both does not fit well :-/ So what do you have in mind ? Tagging them as additional tag on the way with highway=*? Using lanes:-Tagging ? I use lanes:-Tagging for bus_bays by the way. cu fly ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Breakdown bays?
Am 25.02.2015 um 16:41 schrieb Martin Vonwald: 2015-02-25 16:34 GMT+01:00 fly lowfligh...@googlemail.com: So what do you have in mind ? Tagging them as additional tag on the way with highway=*? Using lanes:-Tagging ? I don't think of them as lanes, so I wouldn't use some :lanes-tag. I thought that there is already a tag, that I simply put on the road for the length of the bay - just like e.g. sidewalk=right. But that's obviously not the case and it is not possible with highway=emergency_bay. Well, emergency=bay might interfere with access tagging and we should probably use left/right as you will find them not only on dual carriage roads. emergency_bay=both/left/right ? When tagged as node I lose the length. Tagging as separate way seem counter-intuitive - there is no separate road. Tagging as area seems... strange ;-) +1 How do we tag emergency lanes ? At least in cases of lanes the position of the phone is also important. Cheers fly ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Breakdown bays?
On 25/02/2015 16:41, Martin Vonwald wrote: I don't think of them as lanes, so I wouldn't use some :lanes-tag. I thought that there is already a tag, that I simply put on the road for the length of the bay - just like e.g. sidewalk=right. But that's obviously not the case and it is not possible with highway=emergency_bay. When tagged as node I lose the length. Tagging as separate way seem counter-intuitive - there is no separate road. Tagging as area seems... strange ;-) Well, we already have the approved feature http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:highway%3Dpassing_place for features of a very similar physical nature but for a different purpose. The consistent solution is to use highway=emergency_bay on nodes in the same way as for passing places. And why do you want that kind of details? If it is tagged as emergency_bay you know it is big enough for a broken down vehicle. That is the only information you really need if you are having car problems. And adding an attribute to a short section of highway just results in further (in my opinion unnecessary) fragmentation of highways. If you really want to add the length you could use maxlength=* for the maximum vehicle length fitting in the bay. That would also be easier for data consumers to process. Ole ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
