Re: [Tagging] Tagging proposal On Wheels app 3 - Parking spaces for
On 22/5/23 22:46, Marc_marc wrote: Le 15.05.23 à 18:47, ro...@onwheelsapp.com a écrit : Hi everyone, So if I understand correct most parking spaces are mapped as polygons? yes https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/amenity=parking_space I don't see the problem to add a width and length tag to a parking_space node, there is no problem except to be aware that this is the least common schema and the one that gives the least information, and that therefore any contributor can convert a width=A length=B into a surface object having this dimension and which will also give a position of this object in relation to the others (does the parking space touch the neighbouring parking_space, does it touch a kerb, etc) because this is more detailed info about the dimensions of a parking space, that is actually measured by people on site with a measure tape. the polygon data is not accurate enough to really use for our app. I don't understand this argument despite the fact that to repeat it : a node width=A length=B is not more precise than a polygon with thoses dimensions The polygon gives the orientation - could be parallel to the road or at some angle. I prefer the polygon, more trouble to map but you can use imagery to get it. Are there other apps that add info about parking places as polygons and extract dimension info from the polygon data? most map style, including osm-carto (the main style on osm.org) ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Tagging proposal On Wheels app 3 - Parking spaces for
Le 15.05.23 à 18:47, ro...@onwheelsapp.com a écrit : Hi everyone, So if I understand correct most parking spaces are mapped as polygons? yes https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/amenity=parking_space I don't see the problem to add a width and length tag to a parking_space node, there is no problem except to be aware that this is the least common schema and the one that gives the least information, and that therefore any contributor can convert a width=A length=B into a surface object having this dimension and which will also give a position of this object in relation to the others (does the parking space touch the neighbouring parking_space, does it touch a kerb, etc) because this is more detailed info about the dimensions of a parking space, that is actually measured by people on site with a measure tape. the polygon data is not accurate enough to really use for our app. I don't understand this argument despite the fact that to repeat it : a node width=A length=B is not more precise than a polygon with thoses dimensions Are there other apps that add info about parking places as polygons and extract dimension info from the polygon data? most map style, including osm-carto (the main style on osm.org) ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Tagging proposal On Wheels app 3 - Parking spaces for wheelchair users
I guess that if I'd want to inform my user about a parking space width, I'll stick to a specific width=* tag, and not rely on a hundredth "good enough" polygon geometry mapped at 3 in the morning. At least I'm sure that if the mapper care enough to estimate a width, it's not completely wrong. Regards, Yves ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Tagging proposal On Wheels app 3 - Parking spaces for
Hi everyone, So if I understand correct most parking spaces are mapped as polygons? For the moment our app can only use node tags and also add new info as a node tag. I don't see the problem to add a width and length tag to a parking_space node, because this is more detailed info about the dimensions of a parking space, that is actually measured by people on site with a measure tape. I know it's kind off double info, but the polygon data is not accurate enough to really use for our app. If other mappers would add these width and length tags not correctly our users will verify this info and correct it if not accurate. Are there other apps that add info about parking places as polygons and extract dimension info from the polygon data? For us it would be easy to make a node parking_space and add the tags width= and length=. Then we have the exact location of the parking place in our app. An example of the info we would add to this node: amenity=parking_space wheelchair=yes capacity:disabled= orientation= width= length= surface= Robin Julien On Wheels -Oorspronkelijk bericht- Van: tagging-requ...@openstreetmap.org Verzonden: zondag 14 mei 2023 20:37 Aan: tagging@openstreetmap.org Onderwerp: Tagging Digest, Vol 164, Issue 10 Send Tagging mailing list submissions to tagging@openstreetmap.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to tagging-requ...@openstreetmap.org You can reach the person managing the list at tagging-ow...@openstreetmap.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Tagging digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: office=healthcare deprecated or bad documentation ? (Andy Townsend) 2. Re: Tagging proposal On Wheels app 3 - Parking spaces for wheelchair users (Tobias Knerr) 3. Re: Tagging proposal On Wheels app 3 - Parking spaces for wheelchair users (Yves) 4. Re: Tagging proposal On Wheels app 3 - Parking spaces for wheelchair users (Alan Mackie) 5. Re: Tagging proposal On Wheels app 3 - Parking spaces for wheelchair users (Tobias Knerr) 6. Re: Tagging proposal On Wheels app 3 - Parking spaces for wheelchair users (Marc_marc) -- Message: 1 Date: Sun, 14 May 2023 11:34:16 +0100 From: Andy Townsend To: tagging@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [Tagging] office=healthcare deprecated or bad documentation ? Message-ID: <2ff04bf3-1315-2a29-e415-aea306f12...@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed On 12/05/2023 21:16, Marc_marc wrote: > Hello, > > in 2020, the wiki was changed [|] for this tag (I don't remeber that > we talk about it, no link in the comment of the change) > > [1] > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Tag:office%3Dhealthca > re&diff=prev&oldid=2062630 > See also discussion at https://community.openstreetmap.org/t/deprecated-features-reason/99048 It's been changed back, and I asked why someone thought that the tag was "discouraged" (which might have been part of the original problem). Best Regards, Andy -- Message: 2 Date: Sun, 14 May 2023 17:15:33 +0200 From: Tobias Knerr To: tagging@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [Tagging] Tagging proposal On Wheels app 3 - Parking spaces for wheelchair users Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed On 13.05.23 at 18:28 Marc_marc wrote: > why not just add this information as amenity=parking_space geometry ? Indeed, amenity=parking_space is usually mapped as a polygon (over 94% of amenity=parking_space tags are on ways, according to Taginfo). This makes it possible to determine the dimensions with relatively simple calculations and it seems undesirable to duplicate this information as tags. -- Message: 3 Date: Sun, 14 May 2023 19:59:22 +0200 From: Yves To: "Tag discussion, strategy and related tools" , Tobias Knerr , tagging@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [Tagging] Tagging proposal On Wheels app 3 - Parking spaces for wheelchair users Message-ID: <3909ce57-1aef-45f3-a439-1d23ffa2a...@mailbox.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Le 14 mai 2023 17:15:33 GMT+02:00, Tobias Knerr a ?crit?: >On 13.05.23 at 18:28 Marc_marc wrote: >> why not just add this information as amenity=parking_space geometry ? > >Indeed, amenity=parking_space is usually mapped as a polygon (over 94% of amenity=parking_space tags are on ways, according to Taginfo). This makes it possible to determine the dimensions with relatively simple calculations and it seems undesirable to duplicate this information as tags. >
Re: [Tagging] Tagging proposal On Wheels app 3 - Parking spaces for wheelchair users
Le 14.05.23 à 19:59, Yves via Tagging a écrit : everybody is not super accurate in drawing polygons indeed, and most tools doesn't allow to request a polygon with a given lenght/width I doubt a lot of mappers go trough a complete parking lot a measuring tape in their hands. On the contrary, estimating a width from one's car I don't understand this argument: the question is not to have the measurement (with a laser, with satellite imagery, by estimating by comparison with his car) the question is how to introduce this measure in osm with 3 possible choices : either on a parent object (for example amenity=parking with parking_space:width parking_space:lenght) but that does not say where the space is) or an amenity=parking_space node with width and lenght: compared to the previous solution, we gain the position of the space (and anyone on the spot can obviously tell where he is when he parks his vehicle) or an amenity=parking_space polygon: compared to the previous solution, we gain the surface and its orientation in relation to the other objects. I'd say yes to such a tag. I have nothing against the tag, it would simply be necessary for the person/application in question to know that it is only one of the 3 possible methods and that, out of the 3, it is the one that gives the least information. so : - if they have the possibility to make a method giving more information, they might as well do it (at least a node amenity=parking_space) - if osm has the information in the form of area, it shouldn't come to the point of saying "no, it must be in the form of parking_space:width" and convert or ignore the precise methods in favour of the less precise one and if someone were to convert a parking_space:witdh parking_space:lenght to a surface of this size, the application would not have to regress or worse, someone would have to revert because the application does not handle it in this form Regards, Marc ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Tagging proposal On Wheels app 3 - Parking spaces for wheelchair users
On 14.05.23 at 19:59 Yves wrote: everybody is not super accurate in drawing polygons, imagery has a resolution and I doubt a lot of mappers go trough a complete parking lot a measuring tape in their hands. Sure, mappers drawing polygons very rarely use measuring tape. The same is true for mappers adding tags. I'd wager the vast majority of width values currently in the OSM database are estimates or – at best and in rarer cases – rough measurements from a phone app. It's obvious that the dimensions of polygons in OSM are not reliable. But unless you have a plan to prevent mappers from entering guesses or insufficiently precise measurements into width tags for parking spaces (even while using those sources for width tags on all sorts of other objects is accepted practice and commonplace), I doubt that you will consistently achieve the desired accuracy by encouraging people to add width tags to parking spaces. _Maybe_ it will work as long as no one except accessibility-focused apps uses this tag and therefore mappers overwhelmingly keep that particular use case in mind when adding the tags, but that seems fragile. Also, on an unrelated note, I'm curious about the intended definition of width and length for non-rectangular parking spaces. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Tagging proposal On Wheels app 3 - Parking spaces for wheelchair users
On Sun, 14 May 2023 at 19:04, Yves via Tagging wrote: > > > Le 14 mai 2023 17:15:33 GMT+02:00, Tobias Knerr a > écrit : > >On 13.05.23 at 18:28 Marc_marc wrote: > >> why not just add this information as amenity=parking_space geometry ? > > > >Indeed, amenity=parking_space is usually mapped as a polygon (over 94% of > amenity=parking_space tags are on ways, according to Taginfo). This makes > it possible to determine the dimensions with relatively simple calculations > and it seems undesirable to duplicate this information as tags. > > > These two suggestions made me laugh a bit: everybody is not super accurate > in drawing polygons, imagery has a resolution and I doubt a lot of mappers > go trough a complete parking lot a measuring tape in their hands. > On the contrary, estimating a width from one's car when you happen to > really need to know is probably not far-fetched. > StreetComplete recently split their measuring tool out into its own dedicated app recently so that is also an option if you're on Android: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=de.westnordost.streetmeasure I imagine iOS has similar tools with its AR stuff. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Tagging proposal On Wheels app 3 - Parking spaces for wheelchair users
Le 14 mai 2023 17:15:33 GMT+02:00, Tobias Knerr a écrit : >On 13.05.23 at 18:28 Marc_marc wrote: >> why not just add this information as amenity=parking_space geometry ? > >Indeed, amenity=parking_space is usually mapped as a polygon (over 94% of >amenity=parking_space tags are on ways, according to Taginfo). This makes it >possible to determine the dimensions with relatively simple calculations and >it seems undesirable to duplicate this information as tags. > These two suggestions made me laugh a bit: everybody is not super accurate in drawing polygons, imagery has a resolution and I doubt a lot of mappers go trough a complete parking lot a measuring tape in their hands. On the contrary, estimating a width from one's car when you happen to really need to know is probably not far-fetched. I'd say yes to such a tag. Regards, Yves ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Tagging proposal On Wheels app 3 - Parking spaces for wheelchair users
On 13.05.23 at 18:28 Marc_marc wrote: why not just add this information as amenity=parking_space geometry ? Indeed, amenity=parking_space is usually mapped as a polygon (over 94% of amenity=parking_space tags are on ways, according to Taginfo). This makes it possible to determine the dimensions with relatively simple calculations and it seems undesirable to duplicate this information as tags. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Tagging proposal On Wheels app 3 - Parking spaces for wheelchair users
Hello, thanks forr splitting topic by thread. Le 13.05.23 à 17:03, ro...@onwheelsapp.com a écrit : *_Amenity=parking, amenity=parking=space_* We want to propose some new tags to add to parking spaces: * Parking_space:width * Parking_space:length without the upper letter, that's a standard combination you want to add this on a amenity=parking ? because if someone is measuring it, why not just add this information as amenity=parking_space geometry ? more than one million places already have their dimensions filled in Regards, Marc ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging