date:20200510

Hi Stewart,

On Sun, 10 May 2020, Stewart C. Russell via talk wrote:

Kind of. Not quite.

Well of course, cannot expect this to flow logically.

Default situation: The first USB serial device you plug in (it doesn't matter
which port) appears as /dev/ttyUSB0. The next one becomes /dev/ttyUSB1

Actually, that it has a default makes a grand deal of sense. After all,
how often would a person have say 4 of them running at a time?

There's no way of telling which device is what without digging about in udev
rules or making sure you use distinct hardware for each one (like the FTDI,
Prolific, QinHeng and Silicon Labs devices I mentioned the other day).
I suppose, hypothetically that if one has more than one hardware device,
you might assign One software program to work with one location, and a
second to work with another?

>
Allocation of COM ports under Windows seems to be random. The first device I
plug in is usually COM6 or COM9. No idea about DOS.

My guess is that Windows does this because in dos technically the first
4 and sometimes 5 can have specific associated tasks. In theory, some
editions of windows have something that sort of vaguely passes as dos in
a round about sort of way. Therefore windows would move things further
up the scale. James remark about IRQ lines can still ring true. because
IBM used them oddly everyone else decided to sing along.
My current computer is a p3 with allot of things going on inside. In
fact I have been putting off trying to find what port and IRQ my sound
card is using so I can configure mplayer and mpxplay.

I have a USB DecTalk; well, an EMIC-2 board with an FTDI USB-Serial adapter I
homebrewed into a small box with a speaker and headphone jack:
https://scruss.com/blog/2016/02/27/t%c9%92k-b%c9%92ks-a-tiny-hardware-speech-synthesizertts/

Wait! you built a $600 dectalk USB unit in your garage?
Does it provide all 9 voices?
Can you make it sing?
Seriously, to give others here a bit of perspective, the unit I am using
right now for my dectalk voice for my computer is built into a box that
also provides a fully functional scanner for reading.
To be sure Dr. hawking used one voice, but there are 9 in total, all with
names like perfect Paul, Doctor Dennis and whispering Wendy, which
really does whisper.
when it was first
sold by xerox the unit cost..$5,500. I replaced it, I prefer to have a
spare, for slightly less than a thousand, and often find them sold for
around $1,500 even today.
A unit the size of what I guess Stewart built sounds closer to a dectalk
express, which is a serial port unit, and very hard to find anymore,
especially not with a functional battery. I managed to find one
about a year or so back, only to
have UPS smash it to pieces because of how the customs form was completed.
I was actually about to start looking for someone who sells dectalk USB
units here, so as to avoid what would happen if I tried to order it
from the states.
Stewart, your comments about speech quality has me wanting to ask
something about speech in Linux, which for the record is reprehensible,
even if free. IBM created a voice known as eloquence which while not my
cup of tea, would make Linux a reasonable possibility for more people if
available. I have no idea what IBM uses the voice for now, but they still
own it I am told.

. FTDI serial interfaces - although briefly vilified by Linux types - are the
easiest to work with under Linux. Each one has a unique serial number, and
can be made to appear on a particular port with a little bit of
configuration.

Granted, I am now trying to imagine how those fit into a machine, but
cannot help feeling that what constitutes a little bit of configuration
for Mr. builds dectalks in his basement, is a grand dance for the rest
of the world.
I mean seriously, if you want to make some extra cash during the pademic I
can likely find you a few happy customers, laughs.

Cheers,
Kare

> cheers,
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[GTALUG] BlackBerry [was Re: Linux servers attacked!]

2020-05-10 Thread D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk

| From: Christopher Browne via talk 

| The Playbook was interesting in this regard; the kernel was QNX, but it had
| an Android
| layer,

The Playbook ran proto BB10 OS.  BB promised an update to BB10 but
reneged.

That was the first and last BB product I purchased.  Grrr.

Like Palm/HP WebOS, their phone/tablet OS was fine but their ecosystem
attracted few 3rd party developers.  So only a minority of consumers
saw the value.

Adding an emulator has often seemed to be a sign of a company with
trouble attracting developers.  And that strategy doesn't work because
it gives the developers an easy way of supporting the hardware without
committing to it.

An exception: if the company owns the new platform and the emulated
platform.  Examples: Windows emulating DOS, 64-bit x86 emulating
32-bit x86, 32-bit x86 emulating 16-bit x86.

Another exception: if the emulation is a lot cheaper than the real
thing.  Think of the Multics emulator on your PC.  Or the terminal
emulator.

BlackBerry also sells software for enterprises to manage phones and things.  I
think that they even do OK (too lazy to check).

QNX is (I think) quite a solid system.  It has a serious niche in the
automotive world.  My guess is that it will be crushed by Linux.

- QNX is better for real-time things

- QNX can be a lot leaner than Linux

- Linux's development model is a lot better for collaboration and
  for innovation without permission.

BB does use Linux internally.  Or did, last time I knew anything about 
them.  I don't see how that could change.
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Re: [GTALUG] Actual ttyS0 MIA


Hi Karen,

Would that number go up,  say to USB1 to simulate com 1? 


Kind of. Not quite.

Default situation: The first USB serial device you plug in (it doesn't 
matter which port) appears as /dev/ttyUSB0. The next one becomes 
/dev/ttyUSB1


There's no way of telling which device is what without digging about in 
udev rules or making sure you use distinct hardware for each one (like 
the FTDI, Prolific, QinHeng and Silicon Labs devices I mentioned the 
other day).


Allocation of COM ports under Windows seems to be random. The first 
device I plug in is usually COM6 or COM9. No idea about DOS.


For example 
there  are dectalk USB devices, however for  the software to find the 
item  a port would need to be associated in Linux or likely in a virtual 
setting as well.



I have a USB DecTalk; well, an EMIC-2 board with an FTDI USB-Serial 
adapter I homebrewed into a small box with a speaker and headphone jack: 
https://scruss.com/blog/2016/02/27/t%c9%92k-b%c9%92ks-a-tiny-hardware-speech-synthesizertts/ 
. FTDI serial interfaces - although briefly vilified by Linux types - 
are the easiest to work with under Linux. Each one has a unique serial 
number, and can be made to appear on a particular port with a little bit 
of configuration.


cheers,
 Stewart
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Re: [GTALUG] Actual ttyS0 MIA


On 2020-05-10 10:52 PM, Karen Lewellen wrote:
Is the BIOS still used for that sort of thing?  I got the impression 
they gave up on it years ago, as it was so inadequate.
That is a fine  question.  My computers are built for me, 
interestingly enough by a former IBM staffer who now works for amd.  I 
am embarrassed to say

 that I did not ask once I started using my USB ports in DOS.
what motivated my question was my thinking, perhaps wrongly, that 
there would  be a bios setting for USB hardware ports the way there is 
/ was for other things. 


We had to worry about COM ports, back in the XT/AT days, but I don't 
recall seeing them in years.  Even in the DOS days, developers wrote 
their own drivers, because the BIOS & DOS ones were so bad.  We also had 
to worry about IRQ lines back then because of the stupid way IBM used them.


I just checked my ThinkPad and the only items about USB are for enabling 
UEFI support and USB charging.


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Re: [GTALUG] Actual ttyS0 MIA


Hi again,


On Sun, 10 May 2020, James Knott via talk wrote:


 item  a port would need to be associated in Linux or likely in a virtual
 setting as well.


I assume it would.  However, I only have one adapter to try it with.
I need to  find some of those adapters USB to Serial and experiment once 
I can  get mail at my office, or leave the house again.




 Is  that com port number determined in the Bios or by windows?  By which
 I mean is it software determined or hardware determined?


Is the BIOS still used for that sort of thing?  I got the impression they 
gave up on it years ago, as it was so inadequate.
That is a fine  question.  My computers are built for me, interestingly 
enough by a former IBM staffer who now works for amd.  I am embarrassed to 
say

 that I did not ask once I started using my USB ports in DOS.
what motivated my question was my thinking, perhaps wrongly, that there 
would  be a bios setting for USB hardware ports the way there is / was for 
other things.


 >> 


I have an OpenDOS 7.01 CD here, which I came across the other day, but 
haven't done anything with it.  After I left IBM, 20 years ago, I had both 
PC-DOS 7 and PC-DOS 2000 (Y2K version of PC-DOS 7) on floppies, which I 
tossed years ago.  However, it's been many years since I did anything with 
DOS.
About four years back I came across project in Germany involving PC DOS 
and someone else in Europe had a Dr. DOS project too.
I would personally love love love a look at that opendos 7.1 cd. 
Especially  as since it is Opendos, it would be a bit more legal than what 
I am running on  the system I am using to write this email grin.

Thanks again,
Kare


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Re: [GTALUG] Free Linux VMs

On Sun, 10 May 2020 19:48:14 -0400
Alvin Starr  wrote:
> > Alvin,
> >
> > I am fascinated by this incident...
> >
> > http://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/09/21/ncix_servers_sold/
> >
> This is not a new story.
> 
> A lot of years ago I worked for a company that wanted to develop a Unix 
> workstation for CAD/CAM applications but they ran out of cash.
> Some Dentist bought the hardware at the fire sale and got a source copy 
> of AT&T Unix.
> He then tried to extort cash out of AT&T  with the threat of releasing 
> the source code.
> Well needless to say it did not go well for him.
> 
> Many years later I bought a tape backup system on Ebay.
> It came with about 10 tapes that had the complete MSSQL for an HMO in 
> California.
> Including patient data and billing information.
> 
> The NCIX one is not surprising because the bankruptcy lawyers have no 
> idea of what they have and don't have any responsibility to guard public 
> privacy.

Alvin,

   I recall hearing on the news about some guy who bought an old computer with 
the UNIX source code on it.  That must have been the incident. 

   I posted that story about NCIX on an engineering forum, and we discussed the 
ethics of it.  To hell with lawyers.  You are the landlord, and you have not 
been paid rent, and you have padlocked the place.  Somebody offers you $10K for 
the servers.  You are a low tech person.  You have a mortgage.  What do you do? 
 Do you have any obligations to honour NDAs?  Do you have any clue of how to 
search hard drives for sensitive information?  Is it ethical for you to do so?

-- 
Howard Gibson 
hgib...@eol.ca
jhowardgib...@gmail.com
http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson
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Re: [GTALUG] Actual ttyS0 MIA


On 2020-05-10 05:57 PM, Karen Lewellen wrote:

Good evening,

a way to ask this question better then.

On Sun, 10 May 2020, James Knott via talk wrote:



That depends on the OS.  I have a ThinkPad, with 3 USB ports. With 
Linux, it doesn't matter which port I use, the adapter gets the same 
port number, such as /dev/ttyUSB0, which implies it's tied to a 
specific adapter.�
Would that number go up,  say to USB1 to simulate com 1?  For example 
there  are dectalk USB devices, however for  the software to find the 
item  a port would need to be associated in Linux or likely in a 
virtual setting as well.


I assume it would.  However, I only have one adapter to try it with.

� On the
same computer, with Windows 10, the com port number depends on which 
USB port the adapter is plugged into.


Is  that com port number determined in the Bios or by windows?  By 
which I mean is it software determined or hardware determined?


Is the BIOS still used for that sort of thing?  I got the impression 
they gave up on it years ago, as it was so inadequate.


I have never used any USB device with Freedos or

any other DOS.


That is unfortunate.  granted I cannot speak to freedos  as my 
machines seem to be too fast for the  system.  still in  ms DOS 7.1 
the one I am using now, I have an amazing
 DOS USB driver that was written by Panasonic.  Lets me use my 
external USB drive for backup among other things.

Thanks for the explanation,


I have an OpenDOS 7.01 CD here, which I came across the other day, but 
haven't done anything with it.  After I left IBM, 20 years ago, I had 
both PC-DOS 7 and PC-DOS 2000 (Y2K version of PC-DOS 7) on floppies, 
which I tossed years ago.  However, it's been many years since I did 
anything with DOS.


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Re: [GTALUG] Free Linux VMs

2020-05-10 Thread Alvin Starr via talk


On 5/10/20 2:03 PM, Howard Gibson via talk wrote:

On Sun, 10 May 2020 13:09:47 -0400
Alvin Starr via talk  wrote:


On 5/10/20 11:04 AM, Howard Gibson via talk wrote:

On Sun, 10 May 2020 12:06:20 +0200
ac via talk  wrote:

in my opinion, avoid any ongoing "free" services, more so if it is a
huge multinational doing the offering as the huge companies all have
some sort of "dominate the planet" and kill off all competition type
long term goal...

Alvin,

I am fascinated by this incident...

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/09/21/ncix_servers_sold/


This is not a new story.

A lot of years ago I worked for a company that wanted to develop a Unix 
workstation for CAD/CAM applications but they ran out of cash.
Some Dentist bought the hardware at the fire sale and got a source copy 
of AT&T Unix.
He then tried to extort cash out of AT&T  with the threat of releasing 
the source code.

Well needless to say it did not go well for him.

Many years later I bought a tape backup system on Ebay.
It came with about 10 tapes that had the complete MSSQL for an HMO in 
California.

Including patient data and billing information.

The NCIX one is not surprising because the bankruptcy lawyers have no 
idea of what they have and don't have any responsibility to guard public 
privacy.


--
Alvin Starr   ||   land:  (647)478-6285
Netvel Inc.   ||   Cell:  (416)806-0133
al...@netvel.net  ||

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Re: [GTALUG] Free Linux VMs

2020-05-10 Thread Alvin Starr via talk


On 5/10/20 1:38 PM, ac wrote:

On Sun, 10 May 2020 13:09:47 -0400
Alvin Starr via talk  wrote:

Think of it like the thief who tries to steal your old
rear-projection television and gives himself a hernia.
Then suing you for his medical expenses and loss of revenue.


roflmao, you are so FUNNY!


As my mother use to say.
No sense getting old if your not getting cute.


--
Alvin Starr   ||   land:  (647)478-6285
Netvel Inc.   ||   Cell:  (416)806-0133
al...@netvel.net  ||

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Re: [GTALUG] Actual ttyS0 MIA

2020-05-10 Thread Christopher Browne via talk

On Sun, 10 May 2020 at 17:46, Scott Allen via talk  wrote:

> On Sun, 10 May 2020 at 17:30, Karen Lewellen via talk 
> wrote:
> > for example if the program would talk to a serial device on com 4, how
> > would you  achieve the same  goal  via a USB to serial adapter?
>
> Under Linux, serial ports are named as "files" under the /dev
> directory, usually starting with tty. Real serial ports are usually
> name ttySx (with x being a number. USB serial ports are usually named
> ttyUSBx, or sometimes ttyACMx if it identifies as a modem type device.
>
> However, there are ways to give a device any name you like based on
> its model, manufacturer, serial number or other identifying parameters
> that the device provides.
>

This is something where Once Upon a Time, things were very different.

These days, device names are generated dynamically in /dev when a
device comes online.

Once Upon a Time, if you added a serial port, there would not be a
device in /dev until you ran /bin/mknod with suitable arguments to put
it there.  I recall having to do so back when I did an upgrade to add a
fast UART (14550 or 16550 I think); the new serial port did not appear
automatically like it would today.

Here is a wikipedia page with some of the relevant history:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Device_file#Naming_conventions

My mention of /bin/mknod dates back to the days before Linux 2.3, when
dinosaurs roamed the earth :-)

In 2.3.6, a first edition of dynamic device naming appeared, loosely based
on Solaris conventions (so my memory tells me).  That was when the
fighting began, in many ways not unlike the fights surrounding systemd,
and for some of the same reasons.

The old-timers knew that they knew better what they wanted their devices
names to be than some newfangled mechanism written by some arrogant
upstart.  That's where the fighting occurs.  (With systemd and with the
Gooch devfs implementation from around the year 2000.)

Of course, there are also reasonable arguments as to why the operating
system should be managing more of this for us.  They actually are common
reasons: we WANT some automation of managing devices because, with
modern buses like USB, and network devices, we now plug in new devices
frequently, and would like them to just work.

devfs was a service for handling the automatic attachment of devices to
file nodes in /dev

systemd is at least partly about having policies for attaching devices to
software services so that USB drives are accessible to users once plugged in
and so network services appear at appropriate times too.

The notion of using /bin/mknod to manually manage where devices go seems
very quaint in 2020.  In 2001, that was very much a present fight between
people with varying positions on the matter.

It's an interesting, albeit somewhat off-topic question, how FreeDOS handles
this.  I don't think FreeDOS went through the "devfs" evolutionary process
which covered a LOT of kinds of devices on Linux.

I'd expect FreeDOS to do one of two things:
a) Number the ports physically (by some measure) so you need to pick
COM1, COM2, COM3, and perhaps guess which is which
b) Offer some command loosely similar to /bin/mknod to let you configure COM
ports.

A web search finds a thread on an HP web site:
https://h30434.www3.hp.com/t5/Desktop-Operating-Systems-and-Recovery/RS232-Serial-Communications-via-FreeDOS-is-not-working/td-p/6585759

The parts of that which seem informative point at FreeDOS having a
command/program called MODE that seems to be how you configure COM ports.

Here is a link to MODE, which I think might be helpful.
http://wiki.freedos.org/wiki/index.php/Mode
-- 
When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the
question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?"
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Re: [GTALUG] Actual ttyS0 MIA


Hi Scott,
Thanks for providing this information, in part you  just answered a 
question I  have not asked, always a plus.

will need to study your answer a bit so I picture it better.
cheers,
Kare



On Sun, 10 May 2020, Scott Allen wrote:


On Sun, 10 May 2020 at 17:30, Karen Lewellen via talk  wrote:

for example if the program would talk to a serial device on com 4, how
would you  achieve the same  goal  via a USB to serial adapter?


Under Linux, serial ports are named as "files" under the /dev
directory, usually starting with tty. Real serial ports are usually
name ttySx (with x being a number. USB serial ports are usually named
ttyUSBx, or sometimes ttyACMx if it identifies as a modem type device.

However, there are ways to give a device any name you like based on
its model, manufacturer, serial number or other identifying parameters
that the device provides.

--
Scott



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Re: [GTALUG] Actual ttyS0 MIA


Good evening,

a way to ask this question better then.

On Sun, 10 May 2020, James Knott via talk wrote:



That depends on the OS.Â  I have a ThinkPad, with 3 USB ports.Â  With Linux, 
it doesn't matter which port I use, the adapter gets the same port number, 
such as /dev/ttyUSB0, which implies it's tied to a specific adapter.Â
Would that number go up,  say to USB1 to simulate com 1?  For example 
there  are dectalk USB devices, however for  the software to find the 
item  a port would need to be associated in Linux or likely in a virtual 
setting as well.




  On the 
same computer, with Windows 10, the com port number depends on which USB port 
the adapter is plugged into.


Is  that com port number determined in the Bios or by windows?  By which I 
mean is it software determined or hardware determined?


I have never used any USB device with Freedos or 

any other DOS.


That is unfortunate.  granted I cannot speak to freedos  as my machines 
seem to be too fast for the  system.  still in  ms DOS  7.1 the one I am 
using now, I have an amazing
 DOS USB driver that was written by Panasonic.  Lets me use my  external 
USB drive for backup among other things.

Thanks for the explanation,
Kare

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Re: [GTALUG] Actual ttyS0 MIA

On Sun, 10 May 2020 17:30:17 -0400 (EDT)
Karen Lewellen via talk  wrote:

> Mr. Russell,
> May I ask a side question here?
> On a couple of other lists to which I belong, one of which involves the 
> development of the freedos project, there were questions about how a USB 
> to serial  adapter manages the communications  associated, by which a mean 
> port definitions that a serial port used to use.
> If one  is trying to access a device connected with a USB to serial 
> adapter,  what port does  USB use?
> for example if the program would talk to a serial device on com 4, how 
> would you  achieve the same  goal  via a USB to serial adapter?
> thanks,
> Kare

Karen,

   I still have an external modem on my desktop which I access through
a USB to serial converter, very, very occasionally.

   To set up the serial modem, I installed and run wvdial...

$ sudo dnf -y install wvdial  
$ sudo wvdialconf /etc/create 

   On my desktop, the modem is at /dev/ttyUSB0.  

-- 
Howard Gibson 
hgib...@eol.ca
jhowardgib...@gmail.com
http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson
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Re: [GTALUG] Actual ttyS0 MIA

On Sun, 10 May 2020 at 17:30, Karen Lewellen via talk  wrote:
> for example if the program would talk to a serial device on com 4, how
> would you  achieve the same  goal  via a USB to serial adapter?

Under Linux, serial ports are named as "files" under the /dev
directory, usually starting with tty. Real serial ports are usually
name ttySx (with x being a number. USB serial ports are usually named
ttyUSBx, or sometimes ttyACMx if it identifies as a modem type device.

However, there are ways to give a device any name you like based on
its model, manufacturer, serial number or other identifying parameters
that the device provides.

-- 
Scott
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Re: [GTALUG] Actual ttyS0 MIA


On 2020-05-10 05:30 PM, Karen Lewellen via talk wrote:

May I ask a side question here?
On a couple of other lists to which I belong, one of which involves 
the development of the freedos project, there were questions about how 
a USB to serial  adapter manages the communications  associated, by 
which a mean port definitions that a serial port used to use.
If one  is trying to access a device connected with a USB to serial 
adapter,  what port does  USB use?
for example if the program would talk to a serial device on com 4, how 
would you  achieve the same  goal  via a USB to serial adapter?

thanks,
Kare 


That depends on the OS.  I have a ThinkPad, with 3 USB ports.  With 
Linux, it doesn't matter which port I use, the adapter gets the same 
port number, such as /dev/ttyUSB0, which implies it's tied to a specific 
adapter.  On the same computer, with Windows 10, the com port number 
depends on which USB port the adapter is plugged into. I have never used 
any USB device with FreeDOS or any other DOS.


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Re: [GTALUG] Actual ttyS0 MIA


Mr. Russell,
May I ask a side question here?
On a couple of other lists to which I belong, one of which involves the 
development of the freedos project, there were questions about how a USB 
to serial  adapter manages the communications  associated, by which a mean 
port definitions that a serial port used to use.
If one  is trying to access a device connected with a USB to serial 
adapter,  what port does  USB use?
for example if the program would talk to a serial device on com 4, how 
would you  achieve the same  goal  via a USB to serial adapter?

thanks,
Kare



On Sun, 10 May 2020, Stewart C. Russell via talk wrote:


On 2020-05-10 2:12 p.m., Scott Allen via talk wrote:


 And here goes another thread off topic again, started by another "back
 in the day" post.


It didn't start as "back in the day": it was about why my ~2016 ASUS 
motherboard running Linux didn't recognize its serial port. It turned out to 
be a standards problem.


cheers,
 Stewart


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Re: [GTALUG] Actual ttyS0 MIA

On Sun, 10 May 2020 at 15:48, Stewart C. Russell via talk
 wrote:
> It didn't start as "back in the day"

I meant that this topic's going off topic was started by a "back in
the day", after the theme of the original post was properly discussed
and resolved.

-- 
Scott
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Re: [GTALUG] Actual ttyS0 MIA


On 2020-05-10 2:12 p.m., Scott Allen via talk wrote:


And here goes another thread off topic again, started by another "back
in the day" post.


It didn't start as "back in the day": it was about why my ~2016 ASUS 
motherboard running Linux didn't recognize its serial port. It turned 
out to be a standards problem.


cheers,
 Stewart


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Re: [GTALUG] Actual ttyS0 MIA


On 2020-05-10 02:04 PM, Kevin Cozens via talk wrote:
io.org sounds familiar. I think I might have used that ISP or maybe I 
just remember it as one of the early ones back before I was using 
interlog.com.


It was a Toronto based ISP.  This was back in the day when commercial 
use of the Internet was still questionable.  IIRC, io.org had some sort 
of dodgy connection to UofT for access to the Internet.


BTW, while trying to dig up some info on io.org, I came across this 
article.  I worked at 151 Front St. W. for about 17 years with CN 
Telecommunications/CNCP/Unitel.  I was also back in there, for a few 
days, a couple of years ago, doing some work for Freedom Mobile.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toronto_Internet_Exchange
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Re: [GTALUG] Linux servers attacked!

2020-05-10 Thread Christopher Browne via talk

On Sun, 10 May 2020 at 11:01, James Knott via talk  wrote:

> On 2020-05-10 10:05 AM, Stewart C. Russell via talk wrote:
> > Blackberry == QNX these days
>
> Didn't they move to Android a few years back, at least for some models?
>

Yep.  In 2016, they contracted out building of phones to TCL.
https://www.theverge.com/2016/9/28/13088362/blackberry-stop-making-phones

(I always somewhat double-take when I see anything branded TCL, for the
obvious reason!)

The deal with TCL ends this August, so it's not evident that they'll have
any hardware
offerings anymore.

The Playbook was interesting in this regard; the kernel was QNX, but it had
an Android
layer, and that would have been an interesting take on "doing Android" in
the marketplace;
I don't think that strategy made it to any of the phone offerings.

I'm wrong on that, it turns out; "Blackberry 10" was indeed QNX
underneath...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BlackBerry_10
There were around a dozen phones released (some not actually released) on
"Blackberry 10" between 2013 and 2015, and later editions did indeed have
an
Android "runtime" to allow running some Android apps.  So I suppose we could
say it's both a dessert wax, and a floor topping ;-)
-- 
When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the
question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?"
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Re: [GTALUG] Actual ttyS0 MIA

On Sun, 10 May 2020 at 14:04, Kevin Cozens via talk  wrote:
> On 2020-05-10 11:03 a.m., James Knott via talk wrote:
> > I used SLIP with my first ISP (anyone remember io.org)
>
> I never used SLIP.

And here goes another thread off topic again, started by another "back
in the day" post.

-- 
Scott
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Re: [GTALUG] Actual ttyS0 MIA

2020-05-10 Thread Kevin Cozens via talk


On 2020-05-10 11:03 a.m., James Knott via talk wrote:

I used SLIP with my first ISP (anyone remember io.org)


io.org sounds familiar. I think I might have used that ISP or maybe I just 
remember it as one of the early ones back before I was using interlog.com.



IBM's Advantis started using PPP.


I never used SLIP. I used to use ppp to get remote access to a pair of SGI 
Web Force Indy computers I administered many years ago.



--
Cheers!

Kevin.

http://www.ve3syb.ca/   | "Nerds make the shiny things that
https://www.patreon.com/KevinCozens | distract the mouth-breathers, and
| that's why we're powerful"
Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172  |
#include  | --Chris Hardwick
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Re: [GTALUG] Free Linux VMs

On Sun, 10 May 2020 13:09:47 -0400
Alvin Starr via talk  wrote:

> On 5/10/20 11:04 AM, Howard Gibson via talk wrote:
> > On Sun, 10 May 2020 12:06:20 +0200
> > ac via talk  wrote:
> >> in my opinion, avoid any ongoing "free" services, more so if it is a
> >> huge multinational doing the offering as the huge companies all have
> >> some sort of "dominate the planet" and kill off all competition type
> >> long term goal...

Alvin,

   I am fascinated by this incident...

   http://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/09/21/ncix_servers_sold/

-- 
Howard Gibson 
hgib...@eol.ca
jhowardgib...@gmail.com
http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson
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Re: [GTALUG] Linux servers attacked!


On 2020-05-10 01:38 PM, John Moniz via talk wrote:

I have a Blackberry Android phone. Don't think QNX was ever a phone OS.



According to this, Blackberry 10 is based on QNX.,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BlackBerry_10
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Re: [GTALUG] Linux servers attacked!

On Sun, 10 May 2020 at 13:38, John Moniz via talk  wrote:
> Don't think QNX was ever a phone OS.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BlackBerry_10

-- 
Scott
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Re: [GTALUG] Free Linux VMs

2020-05-10 Thread ac via talk

On Sun, 10 May 2020 13:09:47 -0400
Alvin Starr via talk  wrote:
> Think of it like the thief who tries to steal your old
> rear-projection television and gives himself a hernia.
> Then suing you for his medical expenses and loss of revenue.
> 
roflmao, you are so FUNNY!
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Re: [GTALUG] Linux servers attacked!

2020-05-10 Thread John Moniz via talk

I have a Blackberry Android phone. Don't think QNX was ever a phone OS.JohnOn May 10, 2020 11:00 AM, James Knott via talk  wrote:On 2020-05-10 10:05 AM, Stewart C. Russell via talk wrote:
> Blackberry == QNX these days
Didn't they move to Android a few years back, at least for some models?
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Re: [GTALUG] Free Linux VMs

2020-05-10 Thread Alvin Starr via talk


On 5/10/20 11:04 AM, Howard Gibson via talk wrote:

On Sun, 10 May 2020 12:06:20 +0200
ac via talk  wrote:

in my opinion, avoid any ongoing "free" services, more so if it is a
huge multinational doing the offering as the huge companies all have
some sort of "dominate the planet" and kill off all competition type
long term goal...

ac,

How legal do you think it is for a free online database to mine your
data?  I would regard this as a thread.


Rule 1:  nothing is free.

Rule 2: who ever holds your data owns your data.

The legality of monetizing your data depends on the terms of service 
that you agreed to.
But those are so general and only protect the service provider that its 
likely that your data is theirs to us as they see fit and if there is a 
problem because of their use of that data its your fault and the 
responsibility will be inherited by all your children into perpetuity.


Think of it like the thief who tries to steal your old rear-projection 
television and gives himself a hernia.

Then suing you for his medical expenses and loss of revenue.

--
Alvin Starr   ||   land:  (647)478-6285
Netvel Inc.   ||   Cell:  (416)806-0133
al...@netvel.net  ||

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Re: [GTALUG] Free Linux VMs

On Sun, 10 May 2020 12:06:20 +0200
ac via talk  wrote:
> in my opinion, avoid any ongoing "free" services, more so if it is a
> huge multinational doing the offering as the huge companies all have
> some sort of "dominate the planet" and kill off all competition type
> long term goal... 

ac,

   How legal do you think it is for a free online database to mine your
data?  I would regard this as a thread.

-- 
Howard Gibson 
hgib...@eol.ca
jhowardgib...@gmail.com
http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson
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Re: [GTALUG] Actual ttyS0 MIA


On 2020-05-10 10:11 AM, Stewart C. Russell via talk wrote:

I still use SLIP


I used SLIP with my first ISP (anyone remember io.org), but when I moved 
to IBM's Advantis started using PPP.  One issue with SLIP was it 
required static addresses, IIRC.  This meant an ISP couldn't share IP 
addresses among multiple users, even though people generally weren't 
connected all the time, the way we are these days.


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Re: [GTALUG] Linux servers attacked!


On 2020-05-10 10:05 AM, Stewart C. Russell via talk wrote:

Blackberry == QNX these days


Didn't they move to Android a few years back, at least for some models?

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Re: [GTALUG] Actual ttyS0 MIA


On 2020-05-09 11:24 p.m., Alvin Starr via talk wrote:


That sucks that the pin layout no longer supports headers and ribbon 
cables.


Oh, they do. Just you have to know what format your motherboard uses. 
This page is a decent guide to the difference:

https://www.frontx.com/pro/cpx102_2.html

My CP/M box is happily talking away to my Asus right now.


I know people still using UUCP.


I still use SLIP and tcpser sometimes. I don't enjoy it, and once I have 
a known-working system I will preserve it because so much can go wrong.


cheers,
 Stewart
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Re: [GTALUG] Linux servers attacked!