Re: [GTALUG] Raspberry Pi 4 Desktop Kit

[Evan Leibovitch via talk]

Sorry for the late entry, been a busy couple of days...

Aruna, I'm glad that you found the info on the firmware upgrades enabling the 
Pi4 to run cooler. They indicate that fanless passive cooling is acceptable for 
most uses.

The FLIRC is great because most of the case is one giant aluminum heat sink. It 
looks great and is my second favourite case right now.

But if you're still looking, I suggest checking out the Argon ONE case. It also 
has great heatsink cooling, but also is the most PC like case. It puts all the 
ports at the back and includes a power switch. Reviews are easy to find, here's 
one: https://youtu.be/8VlE654abDo ... it might even help in Hugh's use case...

- Evan
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Re: [GTALUG] Raspberry Pi 4 Desktop Kit

[Aruna Hewapathirane via talk]

On Sun, Aug 9, 2020 at 11:56 AM D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk 
wrote:

> Just adding my two cents after reading this thread.
>
> Cooling (just an opinion, not based on diverse experience):
>
> - Pi 4 does not need cooling but it apparently makes a difference in
>   performance under load.
>

I found this about heat and thermal throttling for the Pi:
https://www.raspberrypi.org/blog/thermal-testing-raspberry-pi-4/
Very interesting read ( a bit lengthy but fully worth it )


> - passive cooling is "good enough".  I use a FLIRC case
>   
>   Passive means that it won't wear out.
>   A lot more choices are available now.
>   The price ($21.15) isn't too horrible.
>

They have another case which looks interesting:
https://youtu.be/79HG6ZUblZs
He actually has temperature readings over 20 minutes under load.

>
> | From: Aruna Hewapathirane via talk 
>
> | This is not for me. My uncle lives in Edmonton. He is in his late 70's
> and
> | getting on.
> | I visited him recently and he has an ancient desktop and my aunty has a
> | laptop. Both
> | run Windows 10.
>
> The step from Win10 => Linux might or might not be hard for them.  You
> don't really want to find out the hard way.  For example, they might
> need some initial help that is hard to do remotely.  Forcing them into
> new habits might or might not go well.
>

You know I never gave this much thought. I have been using Linux for
so long now it never occured to me. But your so right. I may need to
rethink all this again. Thank's for the pointer.

After reading what you said I googled around and found this:
https://youtu.be/h0_kEV-gdtI
This is more proof of concept and wifi does not work. I wonder
how functional and actually useful it would be ? But windows can be
installed on the Pi :-)

>
> I did switch my father from Windows to Linux when he started having
> trouble (in his late 80s).  He barely noticed.  But I wasn't a plane
> trip away.
>

Yes and return fare to Edmonton is not cheap :-)

>
> I guess you want two desktops.  It might be best if they are very
> similar so that they can help each other.
>

Makes sense. But uncle has a desktop and aunty uses the laptop.
Uncle dislikes the lap and aunty does not much care for the desktop.

>
> How much of their old systems is salvageable?
>

Most everything..

>
> - keyboard, mouse: USB, right?
>

 Yep !


>
> - display: CRT or LCD?  Connectors: VGA, DVI, DisplayPort, or HDMI
>   (likely some subset)?
>
> - cables, desks, ...
>
> The Raspberry Pi family is meant to invite play.  Unfortunately,
> that's kind of the opposite of what you want.  You can paper over much
> of that by configuring it yourself.  Little things like power on /
> power off remain as possible problems.
>
> The first time you turn on a new conventional PC involves a lot of
> busywork.  Windows requires a fair amount of stupid work.  Some people
> even find that unboxing and plugging all the cables in is challenging.
> Other than that, I'd suggest ordering a PC of some sort to be
> delivered to their house: no additional expense.
>
> These days, notebooks are the right choice for most people.  Less
> cabling, less trouble moving, less space, not too expensive.  On the
> down side, the screens may be too small for folks with vision
> problems.
>
> I don't know how important price is to you.  You could consider refurb
> stuff from Dell Financial Services.  Not the cheapest but they are not
> fly by night.  Supplies are a bit limited because of the lock-down.
>

Price is very important right now.

>
> 
>
> Shipping isn't free.
>
> There are also small X86 PCs.  They are often as expensive as
> notebooks.  But they might let your customers keep their existing
> keyboard, mouse, and monitor.  For example, I have a few ThinkCentre
> M93p "tiny" computers.
>
> These people currently have them starting at $170.  Not cheap.
> Getting old.  Still getting updates from Lenovo!
> <
> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1-hKAmQahPcEV_h5mwflWGLWCQtqkKOBDbsakv4ee2u0/edit#gid=0
> >
>
> Dell has SFF (Small Form Factor) PCs (a little larger than "tiny").
> Here are some
> <
> https://www.dellrefurbished.com/desktop-computers?filter_brand=188_chassis_type=242
> >
>
>
> |  The modem+router is in their basement. The house has 3
> | levels. So
> | the wifi signal has to get through two floors for my uncle and one floor
> | for my aunty.
>
> Mentioned before, but:
>
> Surely there is a way to move the modem/router.
>
> - if it is DSL, all you have to do is move the modem/router to another
> phone jack
>   (and juggle the filters)
>

I will ask uncle to check and get back to me. That seems simple enough to
do.


> - if it is cable, all you should have to do is move the modem/router
>   to a different cable jack
>
> It would be odd if there were not a jack elsewhere.
>

Again I will ask uncle to check and let me know.


> A Raspberry Pi's WiFi might not be great 

Re: [GTALUG] Raspberry Pi 4 Desktop Kit

[Kevin Cozens via talk]

On 2020-08-09 12:02 p.m., D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk wrote:

Switching to a 64-bit OS would let Gimp use most of your 8G.

As for crashing: do you know what kind of crash is happening?  Is it
worth reporting?


I suspect it is running out of memory. You can check the system log messages 
after the crash to see if there are any OOM lines in it. GIMP can use a fair 
amount of RAM depending on the size of the file being worked on and the undo 
levels. Check the programs preference settings under System Resources.


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Kevin.

http://www.ve3syb.ca/   | "Nerds make the shiny things that
https://www.patreon.com/KevinCozens | distract the mouth-breathers, and
| that's why we're powerful"
Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172  |
#include  | --Chris Hardwick
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Re: [GTALUG] Raspberry Pi 4 Desktop Kit

[mwilson--- via talk]

From: D. Hugh Redelmeier" 
> | From: mwilson--- via talk 
>
> | [ GIMP crashes under Raspberry Pi OS ]
>
> Last I checked, ordinary Raspbian was 32-bit only.  If Gimp's memory
> use is within a single processs, it is limited to about 2 or 3G (I
> don't remember which) of your 8G.
>
> Switching to a 64-bit OS would let Gimp use most of your 8G.
>
> As for crashing: do you know what kind of crash is happening?  Is it
> worth reporting?

Thanks.  My only data point was that GIMP hadn't been crashing under I386
Debian.  Next time I'll submit a crash report; it's the right thing to do.

I guess the 4GB system will get random use as a wandering client.  I
already have a Pi3 running nginx as a local web server.  The appeal is the
slightly lower power requirement.


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Re: [GTALUG] Raspberry Pi 4 Desktop Kit

[D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk]

| From: mwilson--- via talk 

| I started with a 4GByte kit from ABRA in Montreal.  It did adequately
| replacing my old 1-core I386 desktop, mostly running Firefox and Gnu Image
| Manipulation Program.  GIMP seemed to encounter strange crashes with many
| images open, so I lately upgraded to an 8GByte kit from CanaKit in BC, as
| soon as they announced the 8GB.  It is also working well, with occasional
| GIMP crashes.  I don't have anything like benchmark results to tell you.

Last I checked, ordinary Raspbian was 32-bit only.  If Gimp's memory
use is within a single processs, it is limited to about 2 or 3G (I
don't remember which) of your 8G.

Switching to a 64-bit OS would let Gimp use most of your 8G.

As for crashing: do you know what kind of crash is happening?  Is it
worth reporting?
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Re: [GTALUG] Raspberry Pi 4 Desktop Kit

[D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk]

Just adding my two cents after reading this thread.

Cooling (just an opinion, not based on diverse experience):

- Pi 4 does not need cooling but it apparently makes a difference in 
  performance under load.

- passive cooling is "good enough".  I use a FLIRC case
  
  Passive means that it won't wear out.
  A lot more choices are available now.
  The price ($21.15) isn't too horrible.

| From: Aruna Hewapathirane via talk 

| This is not for me. My uncle lives in Edmonton. He is in his late 70's and
| getting on.
| I visited him recently and he has an ancient desktop and my aunty has a
| laptop. Both
| run Windows 10.

The step from Win10 => Linux might or might not be hard for them.  You
don't really want to find out the hard way.  For example, they might
need some initial help that is hard to do remotely.  Forcing them into
new habits might or might not go well.

I did switch my father from Windows to Linux when he started having
trouble (in his late 80s).  He barely noticed.  But I wasn't a plane
trip away.

I guess you want two desktops.  It might be best if they are very
similar so that they can help each other.

How much of their old systems is salvageable?

- keyboard, mouse: USB, right?

- display: CRT or LCD?  Connectors: VGA, DVI, DisplayPort, or HDMI
  (likely some subset)?

- cables, desks, ...

The Raspberry Pi family is meant to invite play.  Unfortunately,
that's kind of the opposite of what you want.  You can paper over much
of that by configuring it yourself.  Little things like power on /
power off remain as possible problems.

The first time you turn on a new conventional PC involves a lot of
busywork.  Windows requires a fair amount of stupid work.  Some people
even find that unboxing and plugging all the cables in is challenging.
Other than that, I'd suggest ordering a PC of some sort to be
delivered to their house: no additional expense.

These days, notebooks are the right choice for most people.  Less
cabling, less trouble moving, less space, not too expensive.  On the
down side, the screens may be too small for folks with vision
problems.

I don't know how important price is to you.  You could consider refurb
stuff from Dell Financial Services.  Not the cheapest but they are not
fly by night.  Supplies are a bit limited because of the lock-down.



Shipping isn't free.

There are also small X86 PCs.  They are often as expensive as
notebooks.  But they might let your customers keep their existing
keyboard, mouse, and monitor.  For example, I have a few ThinkCentre
M93p "tiny" computers.

These people currently have them starting at $170.  Not cheap.
Getting old.  Still getting updates from Lenovo!


Dell has SFF (Small Form Factor) PCs (a little larger than "tiny").
Here are some



|  The modem+router is in their basement. The house has 3
| levels. So
| the wifi signal has to get through two floors for my uncle and one floor
| for my aunty.

Mentioned before, but:

Surely there is a way to move the modem/router.

- if it is DSL, all you have to do is move the modem/router to another phone 
jack
  (and juggle the filters)

- if it is cable, all you should have to do is move the modem/router
  to a different cable jack

It would be odd if there were not a jack elsewhere.

A Raspberry Pi's WiFi might not be great (I don't know).  After all,
its antena is just a squiggle on the PC board.

| Most
| times things are extremely slow.

Why?  Often a hard problem to answer, but without knowing why it is hard 
to know the best fixes.

- old WiFi standard (eg. 802.11b)?

- too many neighbours using the channel?

- leaky microwave oven?

- substandard broadband service?

| I could run an ethernet cable from the
| basement and wire
| a direct connection but did not have the time to do that this time.

That should not be necessary.  I do like wired connections for
security and for fewer/simpler ways of going wrong.  I no longer even
wire my TV PCs.

| If there is anyone in Edmonton in the Castledowns area who has the
| experience and a few minutes
| to spare would it be possible to have a look at my uncle's basement and see
| what would be the
| best way to solve this ?

There surely is, but asking the GTA LUG might not be the best way to
discover them.  Certainly you might find GTA people with Edmonton
connections.  Google finds:

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Re: [GTALUG] Raspberry Pi 4 Desktop Kit

[Aruna Hewapathirane via talk]

Hi Stewart,

On Sat, Aug 8, 2020 at 3:21 PM Stewart C. Russell via talk 
wrote:

> Hi Aruna -
>
> Just covering some points that didn't quite match my experience. 4GB
> Raspberry Pi 4 good, 8 GB better, which it sounds like you've discovered.
>

Yes thanks to Scott and others :-)

>
> > How hot does the unit become ? Does it require an add on fan shim ?
> > Or will work fine without one ?
>
> You can definitely get by without one. I have the temperature-controlled
> Pimoroni Fan Shim in one, and it very rarely operates. It used to run a
> lot before the firmware update late last year, but these days I barely
> notice it.
>

Oh-kay but am gonna get a fan just to be on the safe side. I am paranoid
when it comes to hardware.

>
> > How easy or difficult would it be to boot off an external hard disk
> > as compared to the SD card that comes with the Pi ?
>
> More difficult, but not that hard. Note that the Raspberry Pi is picky
> about SATA adapters. This one has a chipset that will give you pretty
> close to the maximum speed possible with the Raspberry Pi 4's slightly
> wiggly data path: STARTECH USB 3.0 to 2.5" SATA III Hard Drive Adapter
> Cable w/ UASP —
>
> https://www.canadacomputers.com/product_info.php?cPath=5_1336_96_id=085674


I am curious when you say slightly wiggly data path ? How wiggly ?

>
>
> This may all get radically simpler when UEFI for the Raspberry Pi
> becomes a stable thing, but that's a little way off yet.
>

I hate UEFI always gives me a hard time when I have to do a dual boot
linux/Windows installation.

>
> > Any other things to watch out for and be aware of before I purchase ?
>
> If you do buy the full kit including keyboard and mouse, the compact
> keyboard and mouse are surprisingly good (for my values of "good"). It
> also has the clever feature of a 3-port USB hub built into the keyboard,
> so you can plug in the mouse and only use one port - and still have a
> nearby port for USB stick use.
>

I was thinking of getting a USB extender hub with 4 ports or similar.


>
> The full kit comes with 2x micro-hdmi to HDMI cables. Absurd numbers of
> Raspberry Pi 4s are selling as dual-monitor thin clients, but note
> there's only room for *micro* HDMI connectors: it's hard to bodge with
> adapters.
>

Alright noted with thanks.

>
> You also said:
>
> > The hardest I will run that Pi will be when compiling the Linux
> > Kernel and when making Video calls.
>
> Ah. The Raspberry Pi kernel is *not quite* mainline yet. Building a new
> kernel will likely lose you useful things in the stock kernel, such as
> 3d graphics acceleration and video acceleration. You also (currently)
> lose that if you run a 64-bit kernel.
>

Oh no-no I meant compiling the Raspberry Pi kernel itself. I found some
code here: https://github.com/raspberrypi
Again just to teach myself and see if I can make it have a smaller
footprint.


> The stock Raspberry Pi OS image (formerly known as Raspbian: it's
> Debian-based) has the best user experience. Every other distro hasn't
> got as much user support. The Raspberry Pi Foundation has a very
> definite view of how their desktop should look, so if you've done lots
> of customization to their LXDE-based desktop, it *will* all get reverted
> at the next refresh of the UI. This happens roughly quarterly.
>

So is the quarterly refresh of the UI automatic ? or you are given the
option
to choose and say yes go ahead or uh-uh stick with my modified one ?


>
> Also, video calls: I don't know of any of the major video call providers
> that support ARM and Raspberry Pi. Google Meet through Chromium, maybe.
> Anything that requires a binary (so Zoom, Skype) is right out. Going to
> ARM from x86 for the first time can be a bit of a blow: the number of
> systems that only work on x86 is annoyingly high.
>

Video calls are what I use to stress test a system. I did find some links
about making video calls using the Pi:

Video Calling on Raspberry Pi 3


Working from home with your Pi
Turn
a Raspberry Pi, a Webcam and a TV into a video call ...



>
> The Raspberry Pi camera is also fixed focus and doesn't do audio. It's
> not useful for video calls.
>

Okay good to know again.


>
> I don't know anyone well enough in the Edmonton area to help with
> installation, sorry.
>

No worries, you have been a big help. Thank you.


>
> cheers,
>   Stewart
>
>
> cheers,
>   Stewart
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Re: [GTALUG] Raspberry Pi 4 Desktop Kit

[Aruna Hewapathirane via talk]

> >> How hot does the unit become ? Does it require an add on fan shim ? Or
> >> will work fine without one ?
> >[ ... ]
>  the 8GB Pi4B which had been running idle
> > overnight, and the air temperature in the case near the processor read
> > 37degC.  A few minutes work with GIMP brought that slowly to 42.4degC.
>
> Thinking some more, the USB connections to my desktop Pi are keyboard,
> mouse, and a powered USB hub (plus an itinerant powered USB disk drive.)
> The Pi4 is spec'ed to provide up to 1.2A to USB peripherals.  The fact
> that my system is hardly drawing any of that probably has a lot to do with
> its running so cool.
>

Good to know. Thank you.


>
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Re: [GTALUG] Raspberry Pi 4 Desktop Kit

[Aruna Hewapathirane via talk]

On Sat, Aug 8, 2020 at 11:21 AM Kevin Cozens via talk 
wrote:

> On 2020-08-08 10:49 a.m., Scott Sullivan via talk wrote:
> > When you also factor in Keyboard, Mouse, and USB boot drive, your left
> with
> > only one spare USB port, which could likely be taken up by a webcam.
>
> You can use a USB type web cam with a Pi but you can don't need to. There
> is
> a special onboard connector that is meant to be used with a camera module.
>
>
Thank's Kevin I will look at what is available and works well with a Pi.


> --
> Cheers!
>
> Kevin.
>
> http://www.ve3syb.ca/   | "Nerds make the shiny things that
> https://www.patreon.com/KevinCozens | distract the mouth-breathers, and
>  | that's why we're powerful"
> Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172  |
> #include  | --Chris Hardwick
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Re: [GTALUG] Raspberry Pi 4 Desktop Kit

[Aruna Hewapathirane via talk]

> > So it has USB boot with the Pi 4 I just have to change the
> > FIRMWARE_RELEASE_STATUS value from "critical" to "stable."
>
> I would err on the side of sticking with just a high quality SD card.
> There far less chance of the accidental removal while the machine is in
> operation.
>

Very true :-)

>
> When you also factor in Keyboard, Mouse, and USB boot drive, your left
> with only one spare USB port, which could likely be taken up by a
> webcam. Sticking to the SD keeps one more port free for incidental use.
>
> What if I plug in a USB extender say with 4 ports ? Will that work or use
too much power  ?


> > Alright I will shop around for a fan and aluminium case.
>
>
> It's a bit on the pricey side, but this Argon ONE is nice desktop style
> case. The power button also helps to make sure it's not being hard
> powered off, possible leading to corruption of the boot filesystems.
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VlE654abDo
> https://www.buyapi.ca/product/argon-one-pi-4-raspberry-pi-case/


That is a nice case. They have so many I have to see what else is
available then decide. But that is a neat case.


>
> > That being said, I will give one further thing to consider.
> >
> > A Raspberry Pi 4 - 8GB is going to run you around $100 Canadian, +
> > $30-50 for a good case, $15 for PSU, $30-80 for SD card or other
> > storage. That's $200 or more. Well with in the lower ends of the
> > used or
> > refurbished desktop and laptops.
>

Cost is always a concern.

>
> > - https://www.freegeektoronto.org/shop/
> > - https://www.canadacomputers.com/index.php?cPath=7_158_1934=3a
> > - https://www.canadacomputers.com/index.php?cPath=710_374=3a
> >
> > Can you tell us more about how you expect to use the computer?
> > That would let us help narrow down your options more.
> >
> >
> > This is not for me. My uncle lives in Edmonton. He is in his late 70's
> > and getting on.
> > I visited him recently and he has an ancient desktop and my aunty has a
> > laptop. Both
> > run Windows 10. The modem+router is in their basement. The house has 3
> > levels. So
> > the wifi signal has to get through two floors for my uncle and one floor
> > for my aunty. Most
> > times things are extremely slow. I could run an ethernet cable from the
> > basement and wire
> > a direct connection but did not have the time to do that this time.
> >
> > I have a couple of desktops lying around but Canada Post or Fedex or UPS
> > will be
> > very expensive if I was to ship them to Edmonton from Toronto and both
> > my uncle and aunt
> > are not technically savvy or inclined so even if I get it across someone
> > has to hook up and test
> > things before handing over to them.
> >
> > This is when I started exploring possible alternatives. A Pi has a very
> > small form factor. Easily
> > packaged and can be sent through Canada Post. Or if I manage to save
> > enough to fly to Edmonton
> > carrying a Pi or two will not be a issue as compared to checking in two
> > desktops :-)
>
>
> Yup, remote support and shipping requirements really do lean into the
> Raspberry Pi's favor here.
>

Yes that is the prime reason I started investigating the Pi :-)

>
>
> > And since everything will be set to go all they have to do is plug in
> > the keyboard+mouse+monitor
> > or TV and things should just work ? I still have to run a ethernet cable
> > from the basement up
> > to his room and my aunt's laptop which has no fixed location. Most times
> > she uses it in the
> > kitchen or dining table.
> >
> > Oh one more question, what can I do to increase the wifi signal from the
> > basement up 3 floors ?
> > I have very limited experience with modems and routers.
>
> There are wifi repeaters, but I've not had much experience with them to
> make a recommendation.
>
> A more practical approach is to move the ISP modem/router onto the
> middle floor so that it's coverage is more consistent across the property.
>

The entry point for the ISP is in the basement and moving things up to the
main floor is going to get messy. I have to find a way to get a stronger
signal
without messing with the modem/router where it currently is in the basement.
Running an ethernet cable is a option but I have to get to Edmonton to do
this.

>
> If it's not practical to do so, because of where their internet service
> enters the property, consider getting a second dedicate WIFI router.
> Turn off the WIFI on the ISP modem/router. Setup WIFI on the new router,
> disable it's DHCP services, and connect one of its LAN side ports back
> to one of the LAN side ports of the ISP modem/router.
>

This will definitely work. I have to first learn and familiarize myself
with setting
up a modem/router. Thank you Scott.


>
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> Scott Sullivan
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Re: [GTALUG] Raspberry Pi 4 Desktop Kit

[Stewart C. Russell via talk]

On 2020-08-08 3:47 p.m., Kevin Cozens via talk wrote:


There is a new(ish) high quality Pi camera with adjustable focus.


Yeah, I knew about that. It's got no focus at all, just being a sensor 
board and a lens mount. The best that folks are getting out of it right 
now is manual focus. There's no autofocus/diaphragm motor header on the 
board, either, so all the nice things like selective zoom/pan to speaker 
and 3d image reconstruction that you'd get out of a 5+ year old cell 
phone won't work with it. And still no microphone.


It apparently makes an amazing microscope camera and a mostly-adequate 
skyview camera, though. There are some quite high quality lenses 
available at (fairly) low cost in that format. They've also sorted out 
raw imagery so you can get the raw Bayer data out in an interchangeable 
format now, too.


cheers,
 Stewart


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Re: [GTALUG] Raspberry Pi 4 Desktop Kit

[Kevin Cozens via talk]

On 2020-08-08 3:21 p.m., Stewart C. Russell via talk wrote:
The Raspberry Pi camera is also fixed focus and doesn't do audio. It's not 
useful for video calls.


There is a new(ish) high quality Pi camera with adjustable focus.
See rpi.io/hqcam for details.

--
Cheers!

Kevin.

http://www.ve3syb.ca/   | "Nerds make the shiny things that
https://www.patreon.com/KevinCozens | distract the mouth-breathers, and
| that's why we're powerful"
Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172  |
#include  | --Chris Hardwick
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Re: [GTALUG] Raspberry Pi 4 Desktop Kit

[Stewart C. Russell via talk]

Hi Aruna -

Just covering some points that didn't quite match my experience. 4GB
Raspberry Pi 4 good, 8 GB better, which it sounds like you've discovered.


How hot does the unit become ? Does it require an add on fan shim ?
Or will work fine without one ?


You can definitely get by without one. I have the temperature-controlled
Pimoroni Fan Shim in one, and it very rarely operates. It used to run a
lot before the firmware update late last year, but these days I barely
notice it.


How easy or difficult would it be to boot off an external hard disk
as compared to the SD card that comes with the Pi ?


More difficult, but not that hard. Note that the Raspberry Pi is picky
about SATA adapters. This one has a chipset that will give you pretty
close to the maximum speed possible with the Raspberry Pi 4's slightly
wiggly data path: STARTECH USB 3.0 to 2.5" SATA III Hard Drive Adapter
Cable w/ UASP —
https://www.canadacomputers.com/product_info.php?cPath=5_1336_96_id=085674

This may all get radically simpler when UEFI for the Raspberry Pi
becomes a stable thing, but that's a little way off yet.


Any other things to watch out for and be aware of before I purchase ?


If you do buy the full kit including keyboard and mouse, the compact 
keyboard and mouse are surprisingly good (for my values of "good"). It 
also has the clever feature of a 3-port USB hub built into the keyboard, 
so you can plug in the mouse and only use one port - and still have a 
nearby port for USB stick use.


The full kit comes with 2x micro-hdmi to HDMI cables. Absurd numbers of
Raspberry Pi 4s are selling as dual-monitor thin clients, but note
there's only room for *micro* HDMI connectors: it's hard to bodge with
adapters.

You also said:


The hardest I will run that Pi will be when compiling the Linux
Kernel and when making Video calls.


Ah. The Raspberry Pi kernel is *not quite* mainline yet. Building a new 
kernel will likely lose you useful things in the stock kernel, such as 
3d graphics acceleration and video acceleration. You also (currently) 
lose that if you run a 64-bit kernel.


The stock Raspberry Pi OS image (formerly known as Raspbian: it's 
Debian-based) has the best user experience. Every other distro hasn't 
got as much user support. The Raspberry Pi Foundation has a very 
definite view of how their desktop should look, so if you've done lots 
of customization to their LXDE-based desktop, it *will* all get reverted 
at the next refresh of the UI. This happens roughly quarterly.


Also, video calls: I don't know of any of the major video call providers 
that support ARM and Raspberry Pi. Google Meet through Chromium, maybe. 
Anything that requires a binary (so Zoom, Skype) is right out. Going to 
ARM from x86 for the first time can be a bit of a blow: the number of 
systems that only work on x86 is annoyingly high.


The Raspberry Pi camera is also fixed focus and doesn't do audio. It's 
not useful for video calls.


I don't know anyone well enough in the Edmonton area to help with 
installation, sorry.


cheers,
 Stewart


cheers,
 Stewart
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Re: [GTALUG] Raspberry Pi 4 Desktop Kit

[mwilson--- via talk]

>> Hello,
>> I stumbled across this recently:
>> https://www.raspberrypi.org/products/raspberry-pi-4-model-b/
>> I can use some guidance and advice from folks who have experience
>> with Raspberry Pi's. What I read so far looks good but I have questions.
> [ ... ]
>> How hot does the unit become ? Does it require an add on fan shim ? Or
>> will work fine without one ?
>[ ... ]
 the 8GB Pi4B which had been running idle
> overnight, and the air temperature in the case near the processor read
> 37degC.  A few minutes work with GIMP brought that slowly to 42.4degC.

Thinking some more, the USB connections to my desktop Pi are keyboard,
mouse, and a powered USB hub (plus an itinerant powered USB disk drive.) 
The Pi4 is spec'ed to provide up to 1.2A to USB peripherals.  The fact
that my system is hardly drawing any of that probably has a lot to do with
its running so cool.

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Re: [GTALUG] Raspberry Pi 4 Desktop Kit

[Scott Sullivan via talk]

On 8/8/20 11:21 AM, Kevin Cozens via talk wrote:

On 2020-08-08 10:49 a.m., Scott Sullivan via talk wrote:
When you also factor in Keyboard, Mouse, and USB boot drive, your left 
with only one spare USB port, which could likely be taken up by a webcam. 


You can use a USB type web cam with a Pi but you can don't need to. 
There is a special onboard connector that is meant to be used with a 
camera module.




With the Desktop usage scenario laid out by Aruna, the short delicate 
ribbon cable of the camera module would not be a practical choice. Hence 
my inclusion of a USB webcam in the list.


--
Scott Sullivan
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Re: [GTALUG] Raspberry Pi 4 Desktop Kit

[Kevin Cozens via talk]

On 2020-08-08 10:49 a.m., Scott Sullivan via talk wrote:
When you also factor in Keyboard, Mouse, and USB boot drive, your left with 
only one spare USB port, which could likely be taken up by a webcam. 


You can use a USB type web cam with a Pi but you can don't need to. There is 
a special onboard connector that is meant to be used with a camera module.


--
Cheers!

Kevin.

http://www.ve3syb.ca/   | "Nerds make the shiny things that
https://www.patreon.com/KevinCozens | distract the mouth-breathers, and
| that's why we're powerful"
Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172  |
#include  | --Chris Hardwick
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Re: [GTALUG] Raspberry Pi 4 Desktop Kit

[Scott Sullivan via talk]

On 8/8/20 9:27 AM, Aruna Hewapathirane wrote:
On Fri, Aug 7, 2020 at 9:11 PM Scott Sullivan via talk > wrote:


On 8/7/20 6:49 PM, Aruna Hewapathirane via talk wrote:

[.SNIP.]


 > How easy or difficult would it be to boot off an external hard
disk as
 > compared
 > to the SD card that comes with the Pi ?

Typically, the Pi does not come with an SD card or any accessories.
Which is why you will often see is bundles with an SD card, case and
power supply.

But to answer your question. SD cards are the default way to boot.
While
support for USB boot was recently introduced. It may require you to
update the firmware first, and doesn't look like it 'just works'.
Caveat, I've not tried it myself yet.

https://www.tomshardware.com/how-to/boot-raspberry-pi-4-usb
https://www.raspberrypi.org/documentation/hardware/raspberrypi/booteeprom.md

https://www.raspberrypi.org/documentation/hardware/raspberrypi/bcm2711_bootloader_config.md


So it has USB boot with the Pi 4 I just have to change the 
FIRMWARE_RELEASE_STATUS value from "critical" to "stable."


I would err on the side of sticking with just a high quality SD card. 
There far less chance of the accidental removal while the machine is in 
operation.


When you also factor in Keyboard, Mouse, and USB boot drive, your left 
with only one spare USB port, which could likely be taken up by a 
webcam. Sticking to the SD keeps one more port free for incidental use.



Alright I will shop around for a fan and aluminium case.



It's a bit on the pricey side, but this Argon ONE is nice desktop style 
case. The power button also helps to make sure it's not being hard 
powered off, possible leading to corruption of the boot filesystems.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VlE654abDo
https://www.buyapi.ca/product/argon-one-pi-4-raspberry-pi-case/



That being said, I will give one further thing to consider.

A Raspberry Pi 4 - 8GB is going to run you around $100 Canadian, +
$30-50 for a good case, $15 for PSU, $30-80 for SD card or other
storage. That's $200 or more. Well with in the lower ends of the
used or
refurbished desktop and laptops.

- https://www.freegeektoronto.org/shop/
- https://www.canadacomputers.com/index.php?cPath=7_158_1934=3a
- https://www.canadacomputers.com/index.php?cPath=710_374=3a

Can you tell us more about how you expect to use the computer?
That would let us help narrow down your options more.


This is not for me. My uncle lives in Edmonton. He is in his late 70's 
and getting on.
I visited him recently and he has an ancient desktop and my aunty has a 
laptop. Both
run Windows 10. The modem+router is in their basement. The house has 3 
levels. So
the wifi signal has to get through two floors for my uncle and one floor 
for my aunty. Most
times things are extremely slow. I could run an ethernet cable from the 
basement and wire

a direct connection but did not have the time to do that this time.

I have a couple of desktops lying around but Canada Post or Fedex or UPS 
will be
very expensive if I was to ship them to Edmonton from Toronto and both 
my uncle and aunt
are not technically savvy or inclined so even if I get it across someone 
has to hook up and test

things before handing over to them.

This is when I started exploring possible alternatives. A Pi has a very 
small form factor. Easily
packaged and can be sent through Canada Post. Or if I manage to save 
enough to fly to Edmonton
carrying a Pi or two will not be a issue as compared to checking in two 
desktops :-)



Yup, remote support and shipping requirements really do lean into the 
Raspberry Pi's favor here.



And since everything will be set to go all they have to do is plug in 
the keyboard+mouse+monitor
or TV and things should just work ? I still have to run a ethernet cable 
from the basement up
to his room and my aunt's laptop which has no fixed location. Most times 
she uses it in the

kitchen or dining table.

Oh one more question, what can I do to increase the wifi signal from the 
basement up 3 floors ?

I have very limited experience with modems and routers.


There are wifi repeaters, but I've not had much experience with them to 
make a recommendation.


A more practical approach is to move the ISP modem/router onto the 
middle floor so that it's coverage is more consistent across the property.


If it's not practical to do so, because of where their internet service 
enters the property, consider getting a second dedicate WIFI router. 
Turn off the WIFI on the ISP modem/router. Setup WIFI on the new router, 
disable it's DHCP services, and connect one of its LAN side ports back 
to one of the LAN side ports of the ISP modem/router.


--
Scott Sullivan
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Re: [GTALUG] Raspberry Pi 4 Desktop Kit

[Aruna Hewapathirane via talk]

Hello Howard,

On Fri, Aug 7, 2020 at 10:47 PM Howard Gibson via talk 
wrote:

> On Fri, 7 Aug 2020 18:49:37 -0400
> Aruna Hewapathirane via talk  wrote:
>
> > Hello,
> >
> > I stumbled across this recently:
> > https://www.raspberrypi.org/products/raspberry-pi-4-model-b/
> >
> > I can use some guidance and advice from folks who have experience
> > with Raspberry Pi's. What I read so far looks good but I have questions.
> >
> > If 'you' were to use a Raspberry Pi as a desktop replacement which one
> > would you recommend?
>
> Aruna,
>
>What do you want to accomplish?
>

I am trying to replace an existing desktop system with a Pi with hopefully
no loss of productivity.

>
>I have three computers that I use extensively.  I have a proper desktop
> with a fairly old motherboard which I have just upgraded this week from 8GB
> RAM to 24GB.  I have a fairly old Lenovo L440 laptop, which I have just
> upgraded from 4GB RAM to 10GB.  I have an Acer Extensa desktop.  The
> Extensa is a small desktop with what I assume is a laptop motherboard,
> which I have connected to my TV.  I use it primarily to watch YouTube,
> Netflix and CBC Gem.  It has 4GB RAM, and it seems to work fine.  My other
> two machines are running way better now with the extra RAM.  I think my
> laptop was getting into swap space, and it has stopped doing this, and I am
> very, very happy.  I am an abusive user, scattering all sorts of
> applications all over my virtual windows, and opening all sorts of
> interesting tabs in all my browers.  I like to play with Flight Gear when I
> am bored.
>
>I believe that Raspbery Pis are used a lot for video streaming on
> people's TVs.  This seems to be a manageable use of fairly low powered
> computers.  How hard are you going to run this thing.  I am not familiar
> with Raspberry Pis.  They are on my ToDo list.
>

The hardest I will run that Pi will be when compiling the Linux Kernel and
when making Video calls.


>
> --
> Howard Gibson
> hgib...@eol.ca
> jhowardgib...@gmail.com
> http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson
> ---
> Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org
> Unsubscribe from this mailing list
> https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
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Re: [GTALUG] Raspberry Pi 4 Desktop Kit

[Aruna Hewapathirane via talk]

On Sat, Aug 8, 2020 at 8:52 AM  wrote:

> > Hello,
> > I stumbled across this recently:
> > https://www.raspberrypi.org/products/raspberry-pi-4-model-b/
> > I can use some guidance and advice from folks who have experience
> > with Raspberry Pi's. What I read so far looks good but I have questions.
> [ ... ]
> > How hot does the unit become ? Does it require an add on fan shim ? Or
> > will work fine without one ?
>
> It occurred to me that I have some of the stuff to answer this.  A
> thermocouple thermometer was reading 23.4degC ambient temperature this
> morning.  I poked it into the 8GB Pi4B which had been running idle
> overnight, and the air temperature in the case near the processor read
> 37degC.  A few minutes work with GIMP brought that slowly to 42.4degC.
> That's with no fan, only the convection past the heatsink.  There's a hint
> to start with.
>

Thank you for going to all that trouble. Much appreciated.
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Re: [GTALUG] Raspberry Pi 4 Desktop Kit

[Aruna Hewapathirane via talk]

On Fri, Aug 7, 2020 at 10:39 PM  wrote:

> > Hello,
> >
> > I stumbled across this recently:
> > https://www.raspberrypi.org/products/raspberry-pi-4-model-b/
> >
> > I can use some guidance and advice from folks who have experience
> > with Raspberry Pi's. What I read so far looks good but I have questions.
> >
> > If 'you' were to use a Raspberry Pi as a desktop replacement which one
> > would you recommend?
> >
> > Is there a major difference in response times between the 4Gb and 8Gb
> > models ?
> >
> > How hot does the unit become ? Does it require an add on fan shim ? Or
> > will work fine without one ?
>
> I started with a 4GByte kit from ABRA in Montreal.  It did adequately
> replacing my old 1-core I386 desktop, mostly running Firefox and Gnu Image
> Manipulation Program.  GIMP seemed to encounter strange crashes with many
> images open, so I lately upgraded to an 8GByte kit from CanaKit in BC, as
> soon as they announced the 8GB.  It is also working well, with occasional
> GIMP crashes.  I don't have anything like benchmark results to tell you.
>

Hi and thanks no bench marks necessary you just told me what I need to
know. So
Scott was right the more memory you have the more tabs+windows you can
have  :-)

>
> Both kits came with a fan.  The ABRA case+fan had an annoying resonant
> buzz that built up, until I replaced the steel bolts that held the fan
> with nylon.


Oh dear..


> The CanaKit fan is a press fit onto studs molded into the
> case, so it was noisy from the get-go, with no chance for modification.


I guess any fan will generate some sort of noise.

I
> left the fan off.  The 8GB board is running fine with the supplied
> aluminum heat sinks venting straight up through the opening in the case,
> Air coming out of the case is barely warmer than ambient, so under my
> workload, the fan seems totally optional.
>

Oh-kay this is something I have to test and double check.

Besides my big 2 apps, the usual Linux/GNU stuff just works: networking,
> rsync, ssh, apt-get, etc.
>

Sounds good :-)


> I went with packaged kits, just to save my own time, and to be able to get
> to work as soon as the parcel arrived.  I don't think I'd change.
>

I like to compile my stuff just so I can see how long it takes and
sometimes I make
customisations that require a re-compile.

I sprang for a 128GB SD card, the medium size Raspbian image takes up 5%
> space, 2% inodes.
>

I wonder how much the Pi supports when it comes to SD storage ?

>
> > How easy or difficult would it be to boot off an external hard disk as
> > compared
> > to the SD card that comes with the Pi ?
> >
> > Any other things to watch out for and be aware of before I purchase ?
> > Instead of buying
> > the kit would it be cheaper to buy each item separately from different
> > vendors ?
> >
> > Thanks - Aruna
> > ---
> > Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org
> > Unsubscribe from this mailing list
> > https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> >
>
>
>
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Re: [GTALUG] Raspberry Pi 4 Desktop Kit

[Aruna Hewapathirane via talk]

On Fri, Aug 7, 2020 at 9:11 PM Scott Sullivan via talk 
wrote:

> On 8/7/20 6:49 PM, Aruna Hewapathirane via talk wrote:
> > Hello,
> >
> > I stumbled across this recently:
> > https://www.raspberrypi.org/products/raspberry-pi-4-model-b/
> >
> > I can use some guidance and advice from folks who have experience
> > with Raspberry Pi's. What I read so far looks good but I have questions.
> >
> > If 'you' were to use a Raspberry Pi as a desktop replacement which one
> > would you recommend?
>
> Hello Aruna, I'll try to answer your questions in-line below.
>

Hello Scott thank you for taking the time.


>
> > Is there a major difference in response times between the 4Gb and 8Gb
> > models ?
>
> The amount of RAM does make a difference for performance. The software
> is able to keep more of the active data cached in RAM for faster access
> and more applications (or web browser tabs) can be kept open and
> actively used. As the ram is not upgradable, going for more RAM is
> advisable.
>

Oh-kay understood and makes sense. I will go with the 8Gb.


> > How hot does the unit become ? Does it require an add on fan shim ? Or
> > will work fine without one ?
>
> Rather Hot. There a lot options, including some very effective all
> aluminum cases that act as passive heat sinks.
>
> I recommend going through some of the reviews by ETAPRIME.
>
> https://www.youtube.com/c/ETAPRIME/search?query=heatsink


Hmm... thank's again.

>
>
> > How easy or difficult would it be to boot off an external hard disk as
> > compared
> > to the SD card that comes with the Pi ?
>
> Typically, the Pi does not come with an SD card or any accessories.
> Which is why you will often see is bundles with an SD card, case and
> power supply.
>
> But to answer your question. SD cards are the default way to boot. While
> support for USB boot was recently introduced. It may require you to
> update the firmware first, and doesn't look like it 'just works'.
> Caveat, I've not tried it myself yet.
>
> https://www.tomshardware.com/how-to/boot-raspberry-pi-4-usb
>
> https://www.raspberrypi.org/documentation/hardware/raspberrypi/booteeprom.md
>
> https://www.raspberrypi.org/documentation/hardware/raspberrypi/bcm2711_bootloader_config.md


So it has USB boot with the Pi 4 I just have to change the
FIRMWARE_RELEASE_STATUS value from "critical" to "stable."

>
>
> > Any other things to watch out for and be aware of before I purchase ?
> > Instead of buying
> > the kit would it be cheaper to buy each item separately from different
> > vendors ?
>
> I would certainly shop around. The case options are considerable, and
> getting either an aluminum case or one with a Fan is strongly recommended.
>
> - https://elmwoodelectronics.ca/collections/raspberry-pi
> - https://www.creatroninc.com/category/raspberry-pi/
> - https://www.buyapi.ca/
>

Alright I will shop around for a fan and aluminium case.

>
>
>
> That being said, I will give one further thing to consider.
>
> A Raspberry Pi 4 - 8GB is going to run you around $100 Canadian, +
> $30-50 for a good case, $15 for PSU, $30-80 for SD card or other
> storage. That's $200 or more. Well with in the lower ends of the used or
> refurbished desktop and laptops.
>
> - https://www.freegeektoronto.org/shop/
> - https://www.canadacomputers.com/index.php?cPath=7_158_1934=3a
> - https://www.canadacomputers.com/index.php?cPath=710_374=3a
>
> Can you tell us more about how you expect to use the computer?
> That would let us help narrow down your options more.
>

This is not for me. My uncle lives in Edmonton. He is in his late 70's and
getting on.
I visited him recently and he has an ancient desktop and my aunty has a
laptop. Both
run Windows 10. The modem+router is in their basement. The house has 3
levels. So
the wifi signal has to get through two floors for my uncle and one floor
for my aunty. Most
times things are extremely slow. I could run an ethernet cable from the
basement and wire
a direct connection but did not have the time to do that this time.

I have a couple of desktops lying around but Canada Post or Fedex or UPS
will be
very expensive if I was to ship them to Edmonton from Toronto and both my
uncle and aunt
are not technically savvy or inclined so even if I get it across someone
has to hook up and test
things before handing over to them.

This is when I started exploring possible alternatives. A Pi has a very
small form factor. Easily
packaged and can be sent through Canada Post. Or if I manage to save enough
to fly to Edmonton
carrying a Pi or two will not be a issue as compared to checking in two
desktops :-)

And since everything will be set to go all they have to do is plug in the
keyboard+mouse+monitor
or TV and things should just work ? I still have to run a ethernet cable
from the basement up
to his room and my aunt's laptop which has no fixed location. Most times
she uses it in the
kitchen or dining table.

Oh one more question, what can I do to increase the wifi signal from the
basement up 3 floors ?

Re: [GTALUG] Raspberry Pi 4 Desktop Kit

[mwilson--- via talk]

> Hello,
> I stumbled across this recently:
> https://www.raspberrypi.org/products/raspberry-pi-4-model-b/
> I can use some guidance and advice from folks who have experience
> with Raspberry Pi's. What I read so far looks good but I have questions.
[ ... ]
> How hot does the unit become ? Does it require an add on fan shim ? Or
> will work fine without one ?

It occurred to me that I have some of the stuff to answer this.  A
thermocouple thermometer was reading 23.4degC ambient temperature this
morning.  I poked it into the 8GB Pi4B which had been running idle
overnight, and the air temperature in the case near the processor read
37degC.  A few minutes work with GIMP brought that slowly to 42.4degC. 
That's with no fan, only the convection past the heatsink.  There's a hint
to start with.



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Re: [GTALUG] Raspberry Pi 4 Desktop Kit

[Howard Gibson via talk]

On Fri, 7 Aug 2020 18:49:37 -0400
Aruna Hewapathirane via talk  wrote:

> Hello,
> 
> I stumbled across this recently:
> https://www.raspberrypi.org/products/raspberry-pi-4-model-b/
> 
> I can use some guidance and advice from folks who have experience
> with Raspberry Pi's. What I read so far looks good but I have questions.
> 
> If 'you' were to use a Raspberry Pi as a desktop replacement which one
> would you recommend?

Aruna,

   What do you want to accomplish?

   I have three computers that I use extensively.  I have a proper desktop with 
a fairly old motherboard which I have just upgraded this week from 8GB RAM to 
24GB.  I have a fairly old Lenovo L440 laptop, which I have just upgraded from 
4GB RAM to 10GB.  I have an Acer Extensa desktop.  The Extensa is a small 
desktop with what I assume is a laptop motherboard, which I have connected to 
my TV.  I use it primarily to watch YouTube, Netflix and CBC Gem.  It has 4GB 
RAM, and it seems to work fine.  My other two machines are running way better 
now with the extra RAM.  I think my laptop was getting into swap space, and it 
has stopped doing this, and I am very, very happy.  I am an abusive user, 
scattering all sorts of applications all over my virtual windows, and opening 
all sorts of interesting tabs in all my browers.  I like to play with Flight 
Gear when I am bored. 

   I believe that Raspbery Pis are used a lot for video streaming on people's 
TVs.  This seems to be a manageable use of fairly low powered computers.  How 
hard are you going to run this thing.  I am not familiar with Raspberry Pis.  
They are on my ToDo list.

-- 
Howard Gibson 
hgib...@eol.ca
jhowardgib...@gmail.com
http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson
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Re: [GTALUG] Raspberry Pi 4 Desktop Kit

[mwilson--- via talk]

> Hello,
>
> I stumbled across this recently:
> https://www.raspberrypi.org/products/raspberry-pi-4-model-b/
>
> I can use some guidance and advice from folks who have experience
> with Raspberry Pi's. What I read so far looks good but I have questions.
>
> If 'you' were to use a Raspberry Pi as a desktop replacement which one
> would you recommend?
>
> Is there a major difference in response times between the 4Gb and 8Gb
> models ?
>
> How hot does the unit become ? Does it require an add on fan shim ? Or
> will work fine without one ?

I started with a 4GByte kit from ABRA in Montreal.  It did adequately
replacing my old 1-core I386 desktop, mostly running Firefox and Gnu Image
Manipulation Program.  GIMP seemed to encounter strange crashes with many
images open, so I lately upgraded to an 8GByte kit from CanaKit in BC, as
soon as they announced the 8GB.  It is also working well, with occasional
GIMP crashes.  I don't have anything like benchmark results to tell you.

Both kits came with a fan.  The ABRA case+fan had an annoying resonant
buzz that built up, until I replaced the steel bolts that held the fan
with nylon.  The CanaKit fan is a press fit onto studs molded into the
case, so it was noisy from the get-go, with no chance for modification.  I
left the fan off.  The 8GB board is running fine with the supplied
aluminum heat sinks venting straight up through the opening in the case, 
Air coming out of the case is barely warmer than ambient, so under my
workload, the fan seems totally optional.
Besides my big 2 apps, the usual Linux/GNU stuff just works: networking,
rsync, ssh, apt-get, etc.
I went with packaged kits, just to save my own time, and to be able to get
to work as soon as the parcel arrived.  I don't think I'd change.
I sprang for a 128GB SD card, the medium size Raspbian image takes up 5%
space, 2% inodes.
>
> How easy or difficult would it be to boot off an external hard disk as
> compared
> to the SD card that comes with the Pi ?
>
> Any other things to watch out for and be aware of before I purchase ?
> Instead of buying
> the kit would it be cheaper to buy each item separately from different
> vendors ?
>
> Thanks - Aruna
> ---
> Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org
> Unsubscribe from this mailing list
> https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>


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Re: [GTALUG] Raspberry Pi 4 Desktop Kit

[Scott Sullivan via talk]

On 8/7/20 6:49 PM, Aruna Hewapathirane via talk wrote:

Hello,

I stumbled across this recently:
https://www.raspberrypi.org/products/raspberry-pi-4-model-b/

I can use some guidance and advice from folks who have experience
with Raspberry Pi's. What I read so far looks good but I have questions.

If 'you' were to use a Raspberry Pi as a desktop replacement which one
would you recommend?


Hello Aruna, I'll try to answer your questions in-line below.


Is there a major difference in response times between the 4Gb and 8Gb
models ?


The amount of RAM does make a difference for performance. The software 
is able to keep more of the active data cached in RAM for faster access 
and more applications (or web browser tabs) can be kept open and 
actively used. As the ram is not upgradable, going for more RAM is 
advisable.



How hot does the unit become ? Does it require an add on fan shim ? Or
will work fine without one ?


Rather Hot. There a lot options, including some very effective all 
aluminum cases that act as passive heat sinks.


I recommend going through some of the reviews by ETAPRIME.

https://www.youtube.com/c/ETAPRIME/search?query=heatsink

How easy or difficult would it be to boot off an external hard disk as 
compared

to the SD card that comes with the Pi ?


Typically, the Pi does not come with an SD card or any accessories. 
Which is why you will often see is bundles with an SD card, case and 
power supply.


But to answer your question. SD cards are the default way to boot. While 
support for USB boot was recently introduced. It may require you to 
update the firmware first, and doesn't look like it 'just works'. 
Caveat, I've not tried it myself yet.


https://www.tomshardware.com/how-to/boot-raspberry-pi-4-usb
https://www.raspberrypi.org/documentation/hardware/raspberrypi/booteeprom.md
https://www.raspberrypi.org/documentation/hardware/raspberrypi/bcm2711_bootloader_config.md

Any other things to watch out for and be aware of before I purchase ? 
Instead of buying
the kit would it be cheaper to buy each item separately from different 
vendors ?


I would certainly shop around. The case options are considerable, and 
getting either an aluminum case or one with a Fan is strongly recommended.


- https://elmwoodelectronics.ca/collections/raspberry-pi
- https://www.creatroninc.com/category/raspberry-pi/
- https://www.buyapi.ca/



That being said, I will give one further thing to consider.

A Raspberry Pi 4 - 8GB is going to run you around $100 Canadian, + 
$30-50 for a good case, $15 for PSU, $30-80 for SD card or other 
storage. That's $200 or more. Well with in the lower ends of the used or 
refurbished desktop and laptops.


- https://www.freegeektoronto.org/shop/
- https://www.canadacomputers.com/index.php?cPath=7_158_1934=3a
- https://www.canadacomputers.com/index.php?cPath=710_374=3a

Can you tell us more about how you expect to use the computer?
That would let us help narrow down your options more.

--
Scott Sullivan
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[GTALUG] Raspberry Pi 4 Desktop Kit

[Aruna Hewapathirane via talk]

Hello,

I stumbled across this recently:
https://www.raspberrypi.org/products/raspberry-pi-4-model-b/

I can use some guidance and advice from folks who have experience
with Raspberry Pi's. What I read so far looks good but I have questions.

If 'you' were to use a Raspberry Pi as a desktop replacement which one
would you recommend?

Is there a major difference in response times between the 4Gb and 8Gb
models ?

How hot does the unit become ? Does it require an add on fan shim ? Or
will work fine without one ?

How easy or difficult would it be to boot off an external hard disk as
compared
to the SD card that comes with the Pi ?

Any other things to watch out for and be aware of before I purchase ?
Instead of buying
the kit would it be cheaper to buy each item separately from different
vendors ?

Thanks - Aruna
---
Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org
Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk