Re: [OSM-talk] Names, split streets and relations
On Mon, Jul 28, 2008 at 12:55 AM, Gervase Markham <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Karl Newman wrote: > > I think the "obvious" thing is to quit splitting ways just because > > there's a bridge or the speed limit changed... IMHO, the only reason to > > split ways is if the name changes or if the major type changes. > > Er, correct me if I'm wrong, but it's not possible to apply a tag to > only part of a way. So if the speed limit or anything else changes, you > can't have a continuous way if you want to tag correctly. > > Gerv > I was thinking about this (not my proposal, but I like the idea): http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Relations/Proposed/Segmented_Tag Karl ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Names, split streets and relations
Karl Newman wrote: > I think the "obvious" thing is to quit splitting ways just because > there's a bridge or the speed limit changed... IMHO, the only reason to > split ways is if the name changes or if the major type changes. Er, correct me if I'm wrong, but it's not possible to apply a tag to only part of a way. So if the speed limit or anything else changes, you can't have a continuous way if you want to tag correctly. Gerv ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Names, split streets and relations
Gervase Markham wrote: > Indeed. My question is: can they? :-) > (The opposite problem is the very long road which is a single way. The > name should regularly repeat, but I don't think it does on either Mapnik > or Osmarender.) I have proof-of-concept code for Osmarender (or to be more correct: for any renderer that reads osm files) that does exactly those two things. The concept I implemented splits each way into 3 parts: (1) The original ways without name or ref. (2) A way with only the name, split into same-sized parts of a configurable maximum length. (3) A number of nodes with only the ref-tag, distributed evenly with a configurable maximum distance along the way. Example, rendered with Kosmos: http://j-e-b.no-ip.com:8080/p/map.jpg Code, Perl: http://j-e-b.no-ip.com:8080/p/cwc.pl Note: The code will output a new osm file containing the original data and new ways tagged with "nameway=(any highway type)" and "name=*", and new nodes tagged with "refway=(any highway type)" and "ref=*". So you need to adapt your rendering rules to (a) not render names for highway=*, (b) render names for nameway=*, (c) render little boxes for refway=*. Also: DO NOT UPLOAD THE RESULT FILE TO THE SERVER!!! cu Henry PS: The list of supported highway types has not been updated since early May. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Names, split streets and relations
On Sun, Jul 27, 2008 at 3:09 PM, Gervase Markham <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I have a situation (which I suspect is very common) where a street is > split into e.g. 3 ways, because the middle one is part of a bus route or > other relation. > > If you label all three ways with "name=Foo Street", you get "Foo Street" > rendered 3 times along a fairly short length, at least in Osmarender. If > you leave the name off the outer ends, then those ways are incorrectly > assumed to be unnamed streets when they have a name. In other words, > you've made the data bogus for rendering reasons. > > What is the correct response to this? The "obvious" thing to do is > attach the street name to a relation which incorporates all three ways. > Do the main renderers yet correctly render street names expressed as > relations? > > Gerv > I think the "obvious" thing is to quit splitting ways just because there's a bridge or the speed limit changed... IMHO, the only reason to split ways is if the name changes or if the major type changes. Karl ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Numerology
We surpassed 50,000 accounts. Here's to the next 50,000. Best Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] [tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - (service=parking aisle)
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Proposed_features/service%3Dparking_aisle___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Names, split streets and relations
Mapnik has a way to resolve both cases. If you lodge a Trac job with (UK) URL examples of both cases I will investigate for next week's style update (just submitted this week's). Cheers STEVE -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Gervase Markham Sent: Sun 7/27/2008 8:53 PM To: talk@openstreetmap.org Cc: Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Names, split streets and relations Shaun McDonald wrote: > The renderers need fixed, if they can't cope with this kind of data. Indeed. My question is: can they? :-) > Mapnik will only write the name where there is space for it. Right, but that's precisely the problem. It writes it three times when I really only want it written once. (The opposite problem is the very long road which is a single way. The name should regularly repeat, but I don't think it does on either Mapnik or Osmarender.) Gerv ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Names, split streets and relations
Shaun McDonald wrote: > The renderers need fixed, if they can't cope with this kind of data. Indeed. My question is: can they? :-) > Mapnik will only write the name where there is space for it. Right, but that's precisely the problem. It writes it three times when I really only want it written once. (The opposite problem is the very long road which is a single way. The name should regularly repeat, but I don't think it does on either Mapnik or Osmarender.) Gerv ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Josm: bug in Simplify Way?
> The simplify way action uses the Douglas-Peucker algorithm. You can change > its tolerance (in meters) by modifying the "simplify-way.max-error" preference > (go to the preferences tab, click on the Einstein face, and click "Add"). > Only nodes that are within the tolerance of the simplified way are removed. > Nodes that are used by other ways or relations are not removed either. > By default it uses a tolerance of 50 meters, so if you want less points to be > removed, you might want to set this to, say, 10 meters. Hi I just wanted to pipe up on this particular topic. I've recently done a lot of travelling around Crete, and there are quite a few brand new roads that need to be mapped. A lot of the roads that I travelled on, I went both ways, and as such have two trails back and forth. Is there any way to get the simplify way to work out the middle of those two lines? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Names, split streets and relations
On 27 Jul 2008, at 20:09, Gervase Markham wrote: > > I have a situation (which I suspect is very common) where a street is > split into e.g. 3 ways, because the middle one is part of a bus > route or > other relation. > > If you label all three ways with "name=Foo Street", you get "Foo > Street" > rendered 3 times along a fairly short length, at least in > Osmarender. If > you leave the name off the outer ends, then those ways are incorrectly > assumed to be unnamed streets when they have a name. In other words, > you've made the data bogus for rendering reasons. > > What is the correct response to this? The "obvious" thing to do is > attach the street name to a relation which incorporates all three > ways. > Do the main renderers yet correctly render street names expressed as > relations? > The renderers need fixed, if they can't cope with this kind of data. (I have seen a few people use osmarender:name = no, however the renderer should just be fixed to cope with the data thrown at it.) Mapnik will only write the name where there is space for it. Shaun ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Names, split streets and relations
I have a situation (which I suspect is very common) where a street is split into e.g. 3 ways, because the middle one is part of a bus route or other relation. If you label all three ways with "name=Foo Street", you get "Foo Street" rendered 3 times along a fairly short length, at least in Osmarender. If you leave the name off the outer ends, then those ways are incorrectly assumed to be unnamed streets when they have a name. In other words, you've made the data bogus for rendering reasons. What is the correct response to this? The "obvious" thing to do is attach the street name to a relation which incorporates all three ways. Do the main renderers yet correctly render street names expressed as relations? Gerv ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetMap Wikipedia article tidy-up
On Sunday 27 July 2008 11:26:48 Peter Miller wrote: > I have given the Wikipedia article on OpenStreetMap a tidy up. Please feed > free to make further changes as there is more that could be done, including > added references. I hope that I have made is read better for someone who > comes across the project for the first time. I have demoted (but not > removed) the technical details. > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenStreetMap Very good introduction, I would say! Just a detail... I'm one of the maintainers of Marble, the desktop globe that you mention as one of the desktop applications that you can use to view OSM. It's true that Marble is part of the EDU suite in KDE, but you shouldn't say that Marble is "for KDE". Since there is a variation of it that is Qt-only and does not use the KDE libraries, you can compile it on any platform such as Windows, Mac OS X, Windows CE, and various cell phones. The problem with describing it as "for KDE" is that there will be lots of people who run e.g. Gnome that will think that it's not for them, not to mention all the other platforms described above. -Inge > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > Peter ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Collapsed names
On 27/07/2008 11:00, Igor Brejc wrote: > David Earl wrote: >> In principle it ought to be possible to determine the country an >> object is in, even though it is quite hard at present. I think a lot >> of things would benefit from this ability: nationally-styled rendering >> rules, deciding which way roundabouts go, name renderings, validation, >> improved searching context etc. >> >> David >> >> > I think it is not as easy as it looks. Some countries (Slovenia, for > example) still do not have the whole border drawn in OSM (lack of free > data), so you cannot use this to determine what belongs to what country > - never mind the purely technical difficulties of doing so. Well, depends on the application. And like all our applications, they fail with incomplete data, but that will be rectified over time. Even an approximate boundary will catch most of the area of a country. > And anyway, > even this does not help for multilingual countries like Belgium or Spain. Well, depends on the application - choosing a national rendering would be OK. Bilingual countries should be using name:lang widely as you say below, and it may be that the country it is in could define the default language for the unadorned name= tag (so are places in Catalunya tagged in Spanish by default, with name:ca for Catalan; if not, how does one know what language name= refers to). > It is probably more logical to use multilingual place names which should > have an ISO language ID, like "name:ca" so that we can match them with > appropriate language mappings like Name finder:Abbreviations. But this > multilingual tagging is not used universally in the OSM community. name:lang does seem to be quite widely used. What you're suggesting would be quite a good idea except that I don't have any way of knowing what the language is of the simple "name=" - I can deal with the alternates, but not the principal name. And with millions of names now in there, these ain't going to get manually qualified (and that would have to be by a new tag or duplication because of the way name is used now for rendering), so unfortunately it is not likely to be practical. > There is also an "is_in" tag, but again, it's not widely used (at least > to my knowledge, I could be wrong). It's widely used in the UK. It would be better IMO if it was categorised (is_in:country=Engl;and, is_in:county=Cambridgeshire for example) or had some hierarchical structure (but that's difficult to maintain), but as it is so ingrained, again it isn't likely to change any time soon. > > BTW: it would be good to add ISO language IDs to the Name > finder:Abbreviations page so that the mappings can be computer-matched > more easily. Feel free. I'm not parsing this list automatically anywhere at present, I'm just using it as a manual reference for a table in the name finder. David ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Collapsed names
David Earl wrote: > In principle it ought to be > possible to determine the country an object is in, even though it is > quite hard at present. I think a lot of things would benefit from this > ability: nationally-styled rendering rules, deciding which way > roundabouts go, name renderings, validation, improved searching context etc. > > David > > I think it is not as easy as it looks. Some countries (Slovenia, for example) still do not have the whole border drawn in OSM (lack of free data), so you cannot use this to determine what belongs to what country - never mind the purely technical difficulties of doing so. And anyway, even this does not help for multilingual countries like Belgium or Spain. It is probably more logical to use multilingual place names which should have an ISO language ID, like "name:ca" so that we can match them with appropriate language mappings like Name finder:Abbreviations. But this multilingual tagging is not used universally in the OSM community. There is also an "is_in" tag, but again, it's not widely used (at least to my knowledge, I could be wrong). BTW: it would be good to add ISO language IDs to the Name finder:Abbreviations page so that the mappings can be computer-matched more easily. Igor -- http://igorbrejc.net ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] OpenStreetMap Wikipedia article tidy-up
I have given the Wikipedia article on OpenStreetMap a tidy up. Please feed free to make further changes as there is more that could be done, including added references. I hope that I have made is read better for someone who comes across the project for the first time. I have demoted (but not removed) the technical details. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenStreetMap Regards, Peter ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
