Re: [OSM-talk] Live Data - all new Data in OSM

[Ian Dees]

Sorry, I lost the thread in Gmail here, but:
On Tue, May 12, 2009 at 7:53 PM, Matt Amos  wrote:

> >> unless, of course, you're talking about twittering the updates. that
> >> would be teh moar ;-)
> >
>

I'd like to continue this part of the thread. As was discussed by Frederik,
I think the end goal should be a real-time OSM stream of what's getting
applied to the database. Doing that in a performant way is relatively
difficult (which is why we're using Osmosis and minutely diffs right now),
but I think we should be striving for having a realtime XML feed.

If we assume that's the goal (ok, it can just be my goal and you guys can
think I'm crazy :)), what do we need to think about or plan for in the
future to make it happen?

DB triggers? API collation? Realtime data stream server**?

I'd love to hear lively, continued discussion on this topic.

-Ian

** Currently, my day job is writing server software for medical devices that
does "broadcast" streams of XML data over TCP/HTTP channels. I'd love to
spend some time working on this if I knew there was a source for the data.
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Re: [OSM-talk] Live Data - all new Data in OSM

[Paul Johnson]

Iván Sánchez Ortega wrote:
> El Martes, 12 de Mayo de 2009, Bernhard zwischenbrugger escribió:
>> Is there a possibility to get all new data entered to OSM in realtime?
> 
> No, AFAIK. The closest you can get is the minutely diffs (all the changes 
> done 
> in the last minute).

It would be cool to get this automagically delivered via XMPP... that
would be handy since both XMPP and OSM are XML.



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[OSM-talk] Data Import Support Working Group

[SteveC]

All

The foundation today discussed the perceived need for a working group  
to help people import data.

We know there are highly talented individuals out there who are able  
to find data to import, have the social skills and time to get data  
holders to release it to OSM, have the legal knowledge to see if it's  
ok to import and have the technical skills to do the actual importing.  
They are doing amazing work.

However there are those that can do only a portion of this. Thus we  
would like to help the people finding the data meet the people who can  
import it, and them feel they have backing. We are not looking to  
stomp on existing imports. We wish to help with the large number of  
datasets out there without a champion who has all the skills needed to  
get it imported. There is a lot of data out there! We will prioritise  
it and help get it imported.

So, are you someone who knows about some datasets? Are you able to do  
the importing? Do you have a little time each week to help guide the  
process and talk to people who might have data? Then please get in  
touch to help start this group. We will meet approximately every week  
or two for an hour long phone call.

Best

Steve


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Re: [OSM-talk] Local list contacts

[SteveC]

Thanks for the great response so far, but it doesn't cover all  
countries. Please ping your friends if you know people who could do  
lists that are not covered yet:

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Local_Contacts

Also, it would be great if anyone has time to help me manage this  
process. Please ping me if you can help.


On 11 May 2009, at 10:54, SteveC wrote:

> Dear all
>
> The various mailing lists have grown well organically and there are
> great contributions, debate and discussion on them.
>
> In order to more efficiently and clearly trickle down announcements
> like server downtime to the local lists, we've created a 'list of
> lists' for people to help take announcements and translate them to the
> local lists.
>
>   http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/local-contacts
>
> If you would like to help by being the local contact for a list (which
> doesn't necessarily have to be the same person as the list maintainer,
> but could be) then please sign up. You will help by taking any
> announcement sent there and sending it on, maybe translating it too,
> to your local list. This includes English-speaking lists like talk-au,
> talk-us, talk-gb-midlands
>
> Please sign up here:
>
>   http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Local_Contacts
>
> and for bonus points help clean up that page.
>
> Best
>
> Steve
>
>
> ___
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> talk@openstreetmap.org
> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>


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Re: [OSM-talk] Live Data - all new Data in OSM

[Matt Amos]

On Wed, May 13, 2009 at 1:27 AM, Frederik Ramm  wrote:
> Matt,
>
>> the least invasive way is to use the minutely diffs, as it doesn't
>> touch the API or DB servers at all.
>
> Sure, but they are (a) delayed by 5 minutes and (b) broken ;-)

we're working on both (a) and (b) at the moment... we'll fix it real
soon now, i promise :-)

> I was initially opposed to the concept of diffs. I remember a developer
> meeting in Essen in 2007 where I rather violently requested more frequent
> updates and NickB said something like "we could do daily or hourly diffs"
> and I said "I want the f*ing real thing, not canned diffs".

the trouble with "the f*ing real thing" is that, because it needs the
very latest information, it has to hit the database. imagine that
TF*RT is like WMS - every different request has a slightly different
lat/lon/scale, so its basically uncacheable unless some clever things
are done. granular diffs are like tiles - you only get discrete
chunks, but it makes caching *so* much easier. in fact, you could look
at the files on planet.osm.org as direct access to the cache - no need
to hit the DB, no extra DB load which would be better used serving
editors**. :-)

> I must say that, especially with the convenience Osmosis brings in dealing
> with them, I have meanwhile changed my mind. The diffs are a very crude
> solution but they work remarkably well, and they are quite robust compared
> to some kind of replication feed that may go out of sync at any time.

exactly. because they're just files on disk they're robust against API
downtime or bugs, they're quick to download, etc...

> I still think that there are use cases for almost-realtime feeds but the
> diffs work for most people. - I didn't know the original poster was unaware
> of the diffs; I assumed he must know the diffs and was looking for something
> better!

i think we can find a compromise. if we could get the diff generation
time down from about 5 minutes (and fix (b)!) to 1-2 minutes, would
that be good enough for almost-realtime?

>> given that there are more efficient ways of doing the database
>> replication than aggregating these feeds from all the different API
>> servers into a coherent whole,
>
> As I said in another post, I was under the impression that while you can
> easily have any number of servers running API daemons on them, you'd rather
> not stuff too much into the database because at least for write requests
> we'll be stuck with it for a long while to come. But hey, maybe I
> underestimate the Postgres factor ;-)

but then a single something has to communicate with all the API
daemons, collate all the API activity, and ensure edits' atomicity,
consistency, isolation and durability... what kind of software might
have these ACID properties, i wonder? ;-)

>> unless, of course, you're talking about twittering the updates. that
>> would be teh moar ;-)
>
> For once, it would not be TomH who bans an IP range then ;-)

hey, the postgres guys were happy with OSM using postgres - why
wouldn't twitter be happy? they just re-wrote their backend for better
scalability, so we'd be doing them a favour by testing it!

cheers,

matt

**: yeah, there's going to be an overhead for pulling the minute diffs
out, but thats done once and amortised over all the consumers of the
data.

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Re: [OSM-talk] Live Data - all new Data in OSM

[Frederik Ramm]

Hi,

Shaun McDonald wrote:
> I really don't want to be attempting to try and collate the edits from 
> the api server logs. For a start they don't contain all the information 
> that you would need.

I was not talking about the web server logs, but special log files 
created solely for the purpose of recording, and relaying, changes.

> If you want to summarise 
> each minutely diff and twitter it, be my guest, though remember you need 
> to compress it into 140 chars.

Well, I could spread the content over 60 seconds ;-)

Bye
Frederik

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Re: [OSM-talk] Live Data - all new Data in OSM

[Frederik Ramm]

Matt,

> the least invasive way is to use the minutely diffs, as it doesn't
> touch the API or DB servers at all.

Sure, but they are (a) delayed by 5 minutes and (b) broken ;-)

I was initially opposed to the concept of diffs. I remember a developer 
meeting in Essen in 2007 where I rather violently requested more 
frequent updates and NickB said something like "we could do daily or 
hourly diffs" and I said "I want the f*ing real thing, not canned diffs".

I must say that, especially with the convenience Osmosis brings in 
dealing with them, I have meanwhile changed my mind. The diffs are a 
very crude solution but they work remarkably well, and they are quite 
robust compared to some kind of replication feed that may go out of sync 
at any time.

I still think that there are use cases for almost-realtime feeds but the 
diffs work for most people. - I didn't know the original poster was 
unaware of the diffs; I assumed he must know the diffs and was looking 
for something better!

> given that there are more efficient ways of doing the database
> replication than aggregating these feeds from all the different API
> servers into a coherent whole, 

As I said in another post, I was under the impression that while you can 
easily have any number of servers running API daemons on them, you'd 
rather not stuff too much into the database because at least for write 
requests we'll be stuck with it for a long while to come. But hey, maybe 
I underestimate the Postgres factor ;-)

> unless, of course, you're talking about twittering the updates. that
> would be teh moar ;-)

For once, it would not be TomH who bans an IP range then ;-)

Bye
Frederik

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Re: [OSM-talk] Live Data - all new Data in OSM

[Shaun McDonald]

Frederik,

On 13 May 2009, at 01:01, Frederik Ramm wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Tom Hughes wrote:
>> It's a completely insane solution though. It we want to do it we  
>> should
>> just do it properly in the database not fart around with stupid  
>> hacks in
>> the rails code that break as soon as any updates are not done via  
>> rails.
>
> Assuming for a moment that the database was our bottleneck, something
> that can be done by "farting around" on a number of easily scalable  
> API
> servers would of course compare favourably to burdening the
> not-so-scalable database with triggers and extra write operations,  
> would
> it not?
>
> Now I don't know how often you manually modify database contents,  
> but I
> would think that any operation of a scale that would lead us to bypass
> the rails API would also be very likely to blow apart anyone who  
> listens
> for edits downstream, so in my eyes there's not much to be gained by
> streaming these "manual override" kinds of edits as well.
>

I really don't want to be attempting to try and collate the edits from  
the api server logs. For a start they don't contain all the  
information that you would need.

There needs to be a fix for the Osmosis method where things are  
committed with a huge delay from the timestamp, however that is still  
the best method of distributing updates of the OSM data. It is then up  
to someone else to do what they like with that. If you want to  
summarise each minutely diff and twitter it, be my guest, though  
remember you need to compress it into 140 chars.

Shaun


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Re: [OSM-talk] Live Data - all new Data in OSM

[Matt Amos]

On Wed, May 13, 2009 at 1:10 AM, Bernhard zwischenbrugger
 wrote:
> Hi
>> http://planet.openstreetmap.org/minute/
>>
> That's perfect!!!
>
> Is there also the a file with the *newest* data?
> Or do I have to read the timestamp file?

reading the timestamp.txt is the best way to do it.

> I don't want to synchronize a database. The thing I'm thinking
> about is a visualization of the current activity.

these might be of interest:

http://matt.sandbox.cloudmade.com/
http://trac.openstreetmap.org/browser/applications/utils/export/tile_expiry
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/dev/2009-February/013934.html
http://vimeo.com/4548155



cheers,

matt

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Re: [OSM-talk] Live Data - all new Data in OSM

[Frederik Ramm]

Hi,

Bernhard zwischenbrugger wrote:
> I don't want to synchronize a database. The thing I'm thinking
> about is a visualization of the current activity.

Google for "OSMAware" for some inspiration!

Bye
Frederik

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Re: [OSM-talk] Live Data - all new Data in OSM

[Bernhard zwischenbrugger]

Hi
> http://planet.openstreetmap.org/minute/
>
That's perfect!!!

Is there also the a file with the *newest* data?
Or do I have to read the timestamp file?

I don't want to synchronize a database. The thing I'm thinking
about is a visualization of the current activity.

Bernhard

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Re: [OSM-talk] Live Data - all new Data in OSM

[Frederik Ramm]

Hi,

Tom Hughes wrote:
> It's a completely insane solution though. It we want to do it we should 
> just do it properly in the database not fart around with stupid hacks in 
> the rails code that break as soon as any updates are not done via rails.

Assuming for a moment that the database was our bottleneck, something 
that can be done by "farting around" on a number of easily scalable API 
servers would of course compare favourably to burdening the 
not-so-scalable database with triggers and extra write operations, would 
it not?

Now I don't know how often you manually modify database contents, but I 
would think that any operation of a scale that would lead us to bypass 
the rails API would also be very likely to blow apart anyone who listens 
for edits downstream, so in my eyes there's not much to be gained by 
streaming these "manual override" kinds of edits as well.

Bye
Frederik

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Re: [OSM-talk] Live Data - all new Data in OSM

[Matt Amos]

On Wed, May 13, 2009 at 12:36 AM, Frederik Ramm  wrote:
> To be just slightly more constructive, the least invasive way of
> querying the API for new data only without changing the code would be to
> make multi-GETs for batches of object IDs just above the highest known
> object ID. That would probably not disrupt services if done by one user,
> but then if one user is allowed to do it, what can we say if 10 others
> wanted to do the same?

the least invasive way is to use the minutely diffs, as it doesn't
touch the API or DB servers at all.

> Probably the best way to have a live feed - and a technique that has
> been discussed on dev about two years ago - would be to have the rails
> code log all successful database operations into a file which could then
> be retrieved by an independent daemon and fed into whatever distribution
> network you want. That would be about the same thing that database
> replication does, just on a higher level.

given that there are more efficient ways of doing the database
replication than aggregating these feeds from all the different API
servers into a coherent whole, i think its probably better to continue
creating the feed (i.e: diffs) from the database.

unless, of course, you're talking about twittering the updates. that
would be teh moar ;-)

cheers,

matt

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Re: [OSM-talk] Live Data - all new Data in OSM

[Tom Hughes]

Frederik Ramm wrote:

> Probably the best way to have a live feed - and a technique that has 
> been discussed on dev about two years ago - would be to have the rails 
> code log all successful database operations into a file which could then 
> be retrieved by an independent daemon and fed into whatever distribution 
> network you want. That would be about the same thing that database 
> replication does, just on a higher level.

It's a completely insane solution though. It we want to do it we should 
just do it properly in the database not fart around with stupid hacks in 
the rails code that break as soon as any updates are not done via rails.

Tom

-- 
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http://www.compton.nu/

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Re: [OSM-talk] Live Data - all new Data in OSM

[Frederik Ramm]

Hi,

Tom Hughes wrote:
> Anybody trying such a stunt will be liable to summary blocking when 
> caught however.

I was waiting for that ;-)

To be just slightly more constructive, the least invasive way of 
querying the API for new data only without changing the code would be to 
make multi-GETs for batches of object IDs just above the highest known 
object ID. That would probably not disrupt services if done by one user, 
but then if one user is allowed to do it, what can we say if 10 others 
wanted to do the same?

Probably the best way to have a live feed - and a technique that has 
been discussed on dev about two years ago - would be to have the rails 
code log all successful database operations into a file which could then 
be retrieved by an independent daemon and fed into whatever distribution 
network you want. That would be about the same thing that database 
replication does, just on a higher level.

Bye
Frederik

-- 
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Re: [OSM-talk] Live Data - all new Data in OSM

[Matt Amos]

2009/5/13 Iván Sánchez Ortega :
> El Miércoles, 13 de Mayo de 2009, andrzej zaborowski escribió:
>> From the minutely diffs if a new way is created and deleted in the same
>> minute, you would never know about it
>
> Can't you get the changeset IDs from the diff, then query the API to know the
> exact time of the changeset?

the way (and the changeset its in) may not even appear in the diff.
also, changesets are not atomic, so they don't have a single time -
they have a created_at time and a closed_at time which can be up to
24h apart.

however, brett is testing a new form of diffs that contain all edits,
which should solve that problem.

cheers,

matt

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Re: [OSM-talk] Live Data - all new Data in OSM

[Tom Hughes]

andrzej zaborowski wrote:

> You can in theory extract all edits, at higher than 1 minute
> granularity, from http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changesets
> together with all history.  (From the minutely diffs if a new way is
> created and deleted in the same minute, you would never know about it)

Anybody trying such a stunt will be liable to summary blocking when 
caught however.

Tom

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Re: [OSM-talk] Live Data - all new Data in OSM

[Matt Amos]

On Tue, May 12, 2009 at 11:50 PM, andrzej zaborowski  wrote:
> You can in theory extract all edits, at higher than 1 minute
> granularity, from http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changesets
> together with all history.  (From the minutely diffs if a new way is
> created and deleted in the same minute, you would never know about it)

in theory, yes, but please don't as it puts extra strain on the
servers. please use the minute diffs from the planet server instead
:-)

cheers,

matt

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Re: [OSM-talk] Live Data - all new Data in OSM

[Iván Sánchez Ortega]

El Miércoles, 13 de Mayo de 2009, andrzej zaborowski escribió:
> From the minutely diffs if a new way is created and deleted in the same 
> minute, you would never know about it 

Can't you get the changeset IDs from the diff, then query the API to know the 
exact time of the changeset?

-- 
--
Iván Sánchez Ortega 

"Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad 
people will find a way around the laws."
 - Plato (427-347 B.C.)


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Re: [OSM-talk] Live Data - all new Data in OSM

[andrzej zaborowski]

2009/5/13 Ian Dees :
> On Tue, May 12, 2009 at 4:56 PM, Bernhard zwischenbrugger
>  wrote:
>>
>> Hi all
>>
>> Is there a possibility to get all new data entered to OSM in realtime?
>>
>> If someone adds a new road, building, restaurant,... I would like to
>> have this data.
>>
>> There was talks to put this kind of data to the jabber network.
>> Is this already available?
>
> There is no live feed of data available. The closest to live is the minutely
> diffs on the planet server.

You can in theory extract all edits, at higher than 1 minute
granularity, from http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changesets
together with all history.  (From the minutely diffs if a new way is
created and deleted in the same minute, you would never know about it)

Cheers

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Re: [OSM-talk] Live Data - all new Data in OSM

[Iván Sánchez Ortega]

El Martes, 12 de Mayo de 2009, Bernhard zwischenbrugger escribió:
> Is there a possibility to get all new data entered to OSM in realtime?

No, AFAIK. The closest you can get is the minutely diffs (all the changes done 
in the last minute).

> If someone adds a new road, building, restaurant,... I would like to
> have this data.

Well, head on to planet.openstreetmap.org and download planets and diffs to 
your heart's content :-)


Cheers,
-- 
--
Iván Sánchez Ortega 

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Re: [OSM-talk] Live Data - all new Data in OSM

[Ian Dees]

On Tue, May 12, 2009 at 4:56 PM, Bernhard zwischenbrugger <
b...@datenkueche.com> wrote:

> Hi all
>
> Is there a possibility to get all new data entered to OSM in realtime?
>
> If someone adds a new road, building, restaurant,... I would like to
> have this data.
>
> There was talks to put this kind of data to the jabber network.
> Is this already available?


There is no live feed of data available. The closest to live is the minutely
diffs on the planet server.
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[OSM-talk] Live Data - all new Data in OSM

[Bernhard zwischenbrugger]

Hi all

Is there a possibility to get all new data entered to OSM in realtime?

If someone adds a new road, building, restaurant,... I would like to 
have this data.

There was talks to put this kind of data to the jabber network.
Is this already available?

Bernhard

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[OSM-talk] [Announcement] talk-ro Romania mailing list

[Mike Collinson]

There is now an openstreetmap.org hosted talk-ro - Romania-specific topics and 
discussion mailing list available.  Thank you to Ciprian Talaba for initiating 
and hosting this forum. 

For details on how to subscribe to this and other country, language, and 
topic-specific OSM mailing lists, see

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Mailing_lists

This is a migration of an existing list so you will be joining an active 
community.

For details about OSM activity in Romania:

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Romania

About Romania:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romania

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[OSM-talk] [tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - amenity=newsagent

[Stefano Pallicca]

Tagging some newsagent that could not be included in the "kiosk"
amenity, since they are part of a bigger building, not just kiosks (that
are buildings on their own).
This tag has been requested on the Italian mailing list, and was already
discussed in the past, but never passed because not formally defined.
In the related wiki page [1] there are other tags that could be
associated with the newsagent as well, such as the vending tag,
specifying which kind of goods the shop sells.
I had already posted on the list, but only today I realized that my
message was never published, so I can't mark it as "voting" since no
discussion has been done yet.
So please start *now* discussing :-)

[1] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Newsagent



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[OSM-talk] OSMF - Seeking community members to look at OSMF Articles of Association

[Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists)]

Dear OSMers

The OpenStreetMap Foundation is operated in line with its Articles of
Association [1]. These Articles dictate how the foundation should be run and
what its board and members can and cannot do etc.

The current Articles of Association are fairly generic, having been adopted
when the Foundation was formed. As a result they perhaps do not perfectly
reflect the way in which we as a community wish them to work.

It is normal from time to time to revisit the Articles and look to change
them where the need or wish arises. Any proposed changes require Foundation
membership approval and this process is normally achieved during voting at
the Annual General Meeting, in our case in August.

At the last OSMF board meeting it was agreed to set up a new Working Group
to look at possible changes to the Articles of Association. This email is
being circulated to extend an invitation to OSM community members to sit on
this working group.

If you have an hour or two each week to spare and can assist in the
establishment and activity of this new group the community and Foundation
board will be extremely grateful.

If you are interested and can help, please email me at
secret...@osmfoundation.org with your contact details.

Cheers

Andy

[1]
http://foundation.openstreetmap.org/memorandum-of-association/articles-of-as
sociation/



Andy Robinson
Secretary
OpenStreetMap Foundation
0777 553 7872
a...@osmfoundation.org

Name & Registered Office:
Openstreetmap Foundation
16 Oakfield Glade
Weybridge
Surrey
KT13 9DP
United Kingdom 
A company limited by guarantee, registered in England and Wales.
Registration No. 05912761. 



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Re: [OSM-talk] RFC: amenity=mortuary (and amenity=emergency_room)

[Greg Troxel]

David Paleino  writes:

> Hello,
> I was mapping an hospital, and encountered two mortuaries/morgues. So I've
> tagged them amenity=mortuary, building=yes, and proposed the new tag:
>
>   http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Amenity:mortuary
>
> Any comment is highly appreciated, before I move it to vote :)
>
> Also, inside the same hospital, there is an ER, which is a separate building 
> in
> my case. Thus I didn't find the combination amenity=hospital, emergency=yes
> (which insteads is applied to the whole hospital area) useful, and I've tagged
> it amenity=emergency_room. Before I draft a proposal for this too, is there
> anyone experienced with such a situation?

I think we are in danger of having a million top-level tags, and that
trying to be a bit more hierarchical is better.

What about relation on all the buildings with amenity=hospital, or a
polygon on the grounds, and then a point for the main entrance with
amenity=hospital and a point for the ER entrance with amenity=hospital
emergency=yes?  I generally lean towards the simplest adequate scheme.


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Re: [OSM-talk] CanVec entity value &definition tags to use

[Richard Weait]

On Tue, 2009-05-12 at 01:02 -0700, Sam Vekemans wrote:
> Hi all,
> a quick question. (kind of)
> 
> I think that having the tags that clearly define what the entity is;
> and how the entity is used in the source data, is something that needs
> to be kept.
> 
> Here's why, it tells the user exactly what the feature is, and gives
> the user a better 'measuring stick' to decide for themselves which
> data to use; their own or this stuff.

These definitions belong in the wiki and do not belong in the
database.  

Just as we do not, and should not, put instructions on how to use
Potlatch or josm inside the highway tag, we should not put these data
definitions in the CanVec tags.  

Including the CanVec uuid is appropriate.  Including the definition is
too much.  

Best regards,
Richard





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Re: [OSM-talk] Fw: [ppgis] Invitation for expressions of interestfor Ordnance Survey Think Tank Session on "Crowd source datacapture, geospatial mashups and its impact on NMAs" - 13th July 2009 (Tuesd

[Juan Lucas Dominguez Rubio]

 
On 7 May 2009, at 08:42, Mikel Maron wrote:
>  Selection of invited experts will be made by the Ordnance
> Survey.

Guess they won't be having people from OSM then :-)

Best

Steve


 

 

"Ordnance Survey Think Tank Session on Crowd source data capture, geospatial 
mashups and its impact on NMAs"

it will probably look like one of those "two minutes' hate" sessions described 
by Orwell

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two_Minutes_Hate



regards
Juan Lucas

 

 

 

 




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Re: [OSM-talk] Fw: [ppgis] Invitation for expressions of interest for Ordnance Survey Think Tank Session on "Crowd source data capture, geospatial mashups and its impact on NMAs" - 13th July 2009 (Tue

[Steve Chilton]

Steve

I wouldn't bank on it!
The invites are on basis of submitted "position papers".
I am in process of trying to put one together on crowd sourcing.
I know of at least on other OSMer who has an interest who may submit
something.

Cherers
STEVE

-Original Message-
From: talk-boun...@openstreetmap.org
[mailto:talk-boun...@openstreetmap.org] On Behalf Of SteveC
Sent: 12 May 2009 02:42
To: Mikel Maron
Cc: talk@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Fw: [ppgis] Invitation for expressions of
interest for Ordnance Survey Think Tank Session on "Crowd source data
capture, geospatial mashups and its impact on NMAs" - 13th July 2009
(Tuesday) at University of Nottingham


On 7 May 2009, at 08:42, Mikel Maron wrote:
>  Selection of invited experts will be made by the Ordnance
> Survey.

Guess they won't be having people from OSM then :-)

Best

Steve


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Re: [OSM-talk] Osmarender rendering bad coast lines

[Ed Loach]

Hi Miguel,

 

I’ve noticed this recently near where I live. Requesting a rerender
usually fixes the problem, but why it happens sometimes and not
others I don’t know. I’m guessing a bug in the ti...@home client
somewhere, so have copied this reply to the tilesathome list.

 

For the area you mention, you can request a rerender (at zoom 12)
here (although I have just done so):

http://tah.openstreetmap.org/Browse/slippy/?zoom=12
 &lat=43.4763&lon=-8.2035

 

Ed

 

From: talk-boun...@openstreetmap.org
[mailto:talk-boun...@openstreetmap.org] On Behalf Of Miguel R.
Luaces
Sent: 12 May 2009 08:50
To: talk@openstreetmap.org
Subject: [OSM-talk] Osmarender rendering bad coast lines

 

Dear all,

I hope this is the correct forum to post this question.

Starting some months ago, osmarender is drawing work coast lines in
Ferrol (Galicia, Spain).

Here you have an example:

http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=43.4763
 &lon=-8.2035&zoom=13&layers=0B00FTF

For some reason, the coast line seems to be broken and the land
"floods" the sea. The problem appears "randomly" and in different
tiles

I have no idea how to proceed. I do not find the mistake in the
coastline, I do not know who I should ask.

Any help?

Thank you very much in advance.

Best regards,
  Miguel



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[OSM-talk] CanVec entity value &definition tags to use

[Sam Vekemans]

Hi all,
a quick question. (kind of)

I think that having the tags that clearly define what the entity is;
and how the entity is used in the source data, is something that needs
to be kept.

Here's why, it tells the user exactly what the feature is, and gives
the user a better 'measuring stick' to decide for themselves which
data to use; their own or this stuff.

I believe that the will be communities who will decide (for example,
the local parks & rec have their own database of local parks, and MUCH
more detailed info than CanVec/geobase. And probably list things like;
new service roads; new grass areas, new camp areas. If trees were
planted in an area formerly cut grass, land use changes. The 'proper'
names of trails, and use restrictions.

Thinking in terms of organizations like 'bruce trail association'
where they would benifit from more detailed OSM data.

Size of file;
I (personally) see OSM-earth being 10 terra bytes (compessed) 5 years
from now. With Google using it as the default map, and ALL bus
routes/cycle routes/property boundrys/ every hydro pole listed.

Soon, we will have miniSD cards in terrabytes and standard computing
power will be 500gigs RAM. -so the excuse about file size in not
relevant. (when i baught my 1st 1gig SD card, it cost $100cdn
we no longer use floppy disks :-)

Yes, cloudemade will have province sized OSM extracts available, and
Across Canada Trails will have a Garmin TOPO map for canada with OSM
data too :)

Anyway, its true that OSM tags dont have definition tags; but why dont
they? It would CERTAINLY halt confusion about what a 'footway' or
'track' or 'path' means (in the region it is used)

OSM has no limits, as long as the tags are useful to user, it can be
added. And so, i think these tags can be added.

Lookforward to counter arguments,
Sam Vekemans
Across Canada Trails

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[OSM-talk] Osmarender rendering bad coast lines

[Miguel R. Luaces]

Dear all,

I hope this is the correct forum to post this question.

Starting some months ago, osmarender is drawing work coast lines in Ferrol
(Galicia, Spain).

Here you have an example:

http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=43.4763&lon=-8.2035&zoom=13&layers=0B00FTF

For some reason, the coast line seems to be broken and the land "floods" the
sea. The problem appears "randomly" and in different tiles

I have no idea how to proceed. I do not find the mistake in the coastline, I
do not know who I should ask.

Any help?

Thank you very much in advance.

Best regards,
  Miguel
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