[OSM-talk] The most amazing video in the entire universe
http://www.opengeodata.org/?p=678 Yours &c. Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Announcemen: Multilingual Country-List
andrzej zaborowski schrieb: > 2009/8/19 Peter Körner : >> andrzej zaborowski schrieb: >>> 2009/8/18 Peter Körner : Namely they are http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/424313867 and http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/424317578 which are both islands now. By the way i added http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/25342325 (Alderney) which was somehow missing. >>> *poke* >>> (Montenegro is still missing) >> It seems there is no node for it. Searching if with the Namefinder doesn't >> bring up a node. I'd need a node id to add it to the list. > > It's 445970763 as mentioned in > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/2009-August/040327.html > > Cheers I can confirm that: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/445970763. I'll add it this evening. Peter ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] The most amazing video in the entire universe
Is there a wiki page where people can pick the slice they want in advance? Ed ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] tag proposal surface=gravel; concrete: dirt; grass
Hi, > > Are you referring to the JOSM presets? As for some reason the only > > values they include for surface are paved / unpaved / cobblestone. > > > > If so, I would agree would that there should be some more options > > available, at least some of the common values, eg gravel, dirt, grass, > > concrete > > Yes, that is exactly what i am referring too. please open a JOSM ticket. -- Beste Grüße, Best regards, ce ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Revert a changeset
On 18 Aug 2009, at 20:08, Teemu Koskinen wrote: > On Tue, 18 Aug 2009 20:48:03 +0300, andrzej zaborowski > wrote: > >> 2009/8/18 Peter Miller : >>> On 18 Aug 2009, at 14:57, Teemu Koskinen wrote: Could somebody please revert this changeset: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/2168210 The moving of the nodes across the Atlantic is obviously wrong. >>> >>> Do check out this page for guidance and the email address for >>> requests >>> to the data working group. >>> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Vandalism >>> > > I don't think this case was deliberate vandalism, other edits from > the user seems to be good. An important distinction. The vandalism page does already make the distinction but no one is disputing the need to revert such a change- set. > >>> Note that I have been working on this page today and have added a >>> section for 'speedy response' in cases where a failure to respond >>> within hours could lead to highly visible damage to the rendered >>> maps >>> or changes in sensitive areas (for example Washington - particularly >>> sensitive given the support and visibility given to OSM by the >>> Whitehouse). >> >> Note that most incorrect edits spanning more than a few nodes need a >> speedy response because soon people start making edits on top of the >> unwanted changeset and reverting it becomes more difficult. >> > > What we need, as has been previously discussed on the list, is a > similar mechanism that wikipedia has that will revert an edit > easily, maybe even from the website ui. Agreed. It is worth noting that a lot of the anti-vandalism tools and general data improvement tools for Wikipedia have been developed and are made available independently from the main project. Undo is core to the Wikipedia project and I think we need such a button to revert a change-set in the UI. I would support the inclusion of undo and rollback into the general toolset, but possibly have the feature only available to 'established' users, ie ones who have made >x edits over >y days. Wikipedia has some functions, such as image upload and edits to much-vandalised pages, that are limited to 'established' users. Possibly it is the same concept and definition of being 'established' that makes one eligible to vote at the AGM. > >> Since I had the setup for this ready, I reverted the changeset >> 2168210 >> in my changeset >> http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/2192016 >> but I had to make a couple of edits before uploading it: >> >> * xybot had helpfully made an edit on top of some of the nodes >> removing a spurious tag and causing conflicts. >> * I did not revert the creation of node 469327157 (a parking) which >> seems genuine. >> * Something really strange: node >> http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/270798013/history is edited >> two times inside the same changesets and revert.pl didn't deal >> correctly with this. >> > > There still seems to be some problem, the way > http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/39175980 > still goes across the Atlantic, but it looks different than before. > > >>> >>> Personally I think we need a huge effort to be ready for damaging >>> vandalism and much better tools to spot potential errors in a much >>> more sophisticated way. >> >> Agreed. >> > > I spotted this with the Geofabriks OSM Inspector, but that's still a > bit too slow to update, it would be much better if it updated at > least hourly or even from the minute diffs. > > The revert tools should also be made to look what exactly was > modified in the changeset. Eg. if a node was moved, but tags were > left untouched, and after that someone else modified only the tags > but didn't move the node, reverting the first change should only > move the node back to it's original position and not change the tags > back as those were changed by someone else. Agreed - I see no reason why people can't write tools that use the minutely diffs and monitor for edits by people not on a 'white list', that are possible block shifts of many nodes, that have text fields that contain dubious content, that have very long ways, that include un-tagged ways (santa-trails), name changes for well established features (ie roads that have been called 'High Street' for 2 years and suddenly become something else, broken areas etc etc. Regards, Peter > > > Teemu Koskinen ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Lane turn restrictions
On Wed, 19 Aug 2009, Yann Coupin wrote: > I once started a proposition to do just that but it didn't get much traction, > feel free to discuss it. > > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Relation:type%3Droute_instruction I've not read the discussion page yet, but some initial thoughts: Your first examples aren't topologically identical - the first is a 2 lane road with a short 3 lane section followed by a right hand turn whilst the second is a 3 lane road with a right hand turn immediately followed by dropping down to 2 lanes. Of course, this doesn't give you enough detail to know what lane you've got to be in (although you could make some educated guesses). I also don't see the need for phonetics to be tagged (in fact, it seems harmful because it breaks multi-language support). We don't know what kind of display device is going to be used (whether it be on-screen instructions, text to speech, etc.) and it should be up to the software to decide how to present it to the user rather than being explicitly tagged like that. Overall, the proposal seems a bit too complex - I had envisaged a simpler system whereby you could set a relation similar to a turn restriction, such as: TAGs: type: lane_restriction lanes: 1,2 Members: from: to: via: Whereby that marks a restriction that lanes 1 and 2 (the left two lanes, in the case of the UK) cannot be used in a route using the , and members. It would actually be nicer to be able to tag which lanes are allowed rather than which are disallowed, but that would be inconsistent with the existing turn restrictions (maybe that isn't a problem? comments?) -- - Steve xmpp:st...@nexusuk.org sip:st...@nexusuk.org http://www.nexusuk.org/ Servatis a periculum, servatis a maleficum - Whisper, Evanescence ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Lane turn restrictions
Steve Hill wrote: > Is there any suggested way of marking up turn restrictions for individual > lanes of a road to enable sat navs to provide lane guidance (e.g. "keep > right", "move into the left lane", etc)? There is no accepted or widely used approach to do this, and actually I don't think it makes much sense to create a concept for this before we have a good concept for modelling the lanes themselves. If we decide to model lanes as individual ways or relations, these lane turn restrictions would, of course, contain the lanes as members. If we add the lanes as numbered tags (e.g. "right1:", "left3:"), then we should refer to these numbers. If we do something completely different, then the lane turn restrictions need to adapt to that. Tobias Knerr ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Historic Mapping needs help Now!
Sounds like start_date and end_date would work fine in this situation. "Historical mapping" doesn't really mean much; we're only talking about adding information about dates to features, and there's no limit to how fine grained you could get with this. Ephemeral features are just as welcome as things like buildings that might exist for hundreds of years and are, in many ways, much more exciting examples of the proposal. That's my opinion at least; load the database with all the dating information you can and leave it to those who control the renderers to decide what they want to show. Cheers, Joseph 2009/8/19 Stephen Hope : > I am hoping in a couple of weeks to map the grounds at a festival that > occurs yearly in the same spot. This is not so much historical data, > as data that's only true for three weeks a year. The rest of the time, > it's just fields, with a few items (some toilets, etc) that stay in > place year round. > > Would this come under historical mapping, or some other tagging scheme? > > Stephen > > ___ > talk mailing list > talk@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk > ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Action!
Hi, I provide some error reports for OSM and wanted the errors to be corrected. Of course I could handle some of them on my own. But since there were 10s of thouands I surely wouldn't be able to inspect and correct them all. So I thought why not set up a joint action of some sort? And so I did - not knowing whether I would get help or not. But amazingly we had so many volunteers who picked working packages that in a few days hundreds of erros could be corrected. And since the edits were supposedly made with JOSM using the validator plugin many other errors (beside the initially listed ones) were corrected as well. In the first action 1000 errors were closed in 5 days. The third action (1000 dupe ways) I suppose will make it in under 24h! That's crazy!!! So far we handled unconnected residentials in Bayern/Germany and dupe ways also in Germany. For details please have a look at - http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/DE:Aktionen - http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Aktion_01 - http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/DE:Aktionen/Aktion_03 Of course the pages are in German but look at the work tables and maybe the error lists. Maybe others could set up actions like these for other countries? I assure you to provide reports if needed and I am quite confident that a lot of our helpers would support these actions from here - if we get to know about the actions... Cheers Gerhard gary68 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Gary68 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] GSoC End: signFinder
On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 8:28 PM, Tijs Zwinkels wrote: > > The project is right now trained to read dutch street-signs, but as long as > they have a distinct color, there's no reason why it couldn't read foreign > street-signs. Read this: > http://code.google.com/p/signfinder/wiki/TrainingOtherCountries Since this version can't be trained to handle white background signs, I wonder what color are streetname signs around the world? Netherlands white on blue Sweden black on white -- /emj ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Historic Mapping needs help Now!
Yes - not sure what dates to put on it though. The Festival is the last two weekends in August and the campers start arriving a week or two before that. Ideally I wouldn't have to go back and reset the dates on all the tags each year. Maybe we need a dating plan for yearly (seasonal?) features. A main map may ignore them, or shade them, or even make a point of rendering the tiles at the start and end of the dated events to make them appear and disappear. Stephen 2009/8/19 Joseph Reeves : > Sounds like start_date and end_date would work fine in this situation. > > "Historical mapping" doesn't really mean much; we're only talking > about adding information about dates to features, and there's no limit > to how fine grained you could get with this. Ephemeral features are > just as welcome as things like buildings that might exist for hundreds > of years and are, in many ways, much more exciting examples of the > proposal. > > That's my opinion at least; load the database with all the dating > information you can and leave it to those who control the renderers to > decide what they want to show. > > Cheers, Joseph > > > > > 2009/8/19 Stephen Hope : >> I am hoping in a couple of weeks to map the grounds at a festival that >> occurs yearly in the same spot. This is not so much historical data, >> as data that's only true for three weeks a year. The rest of the time, >> it's just fields, with a few items (some toilets, etc) that stay in >> place year round. >> >> Would this come under historical mapping, or some other tagging scheme? >> >> Stephen >> >> ___ >> talk mailing list >> talk@openstreetmap.org >> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk >> > ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] GSoC End: signFinder
On Wed, Aug 19, 2009 at 6:26 AM, Erik Johansson wrote: > > Since this version can't be trained to handle white background signs, > I wonder what color are streetname signs around the world? > > Netherlands white on blue > Sweden black on white In the US I've seen: White on blue, green, brown, and yellow Black on blue, green, and yellow ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] GSoC End: signFinder
> Since this version can't be trained to handle white background signs, > I wonder what color are streetname signs around the world? > > Netherlands white on blue > Sweden black on white German Black on White (newer) or White on dark Blue (older, but not uncommon) and sometimes White on dark Red (very, old and seldom) Peter ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Historic Mapping needs help Now!
--- On Wed, 19/8/09, Stephen Hope wrote: > Yes - not sure what dates to put on > it though. The Festival is the > last two weekends in August and the campers start arriving > a week or > two before that. Ideally I wouldn't have to go back > and reset the > dates on all the tags each year. Going to the Muster? Even when events are on the same space wouldn't the venue be laid out differently each year? > Maybe we need a dating plan for yearly (seasonal?) > features. A main > map may ignore them, or shade them, or even make a point of > rendering > the tiles at the start and end of the dated events to make > them appear > and disappear. Should be possible. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] GSoC End: signFinder
On Wed, 19 Aug 2009, Erik Johansson wrote: > Since this version can't be trained to handle white background signs, > I wonder what color are streetname signs around the world? > > Netherlands white on blue > Sweden black on white here, whatever the local council decides to put up often reflective silverish background, black letters may be black on yellow may be white on blue may be green on white and that is just checking a few of my photos ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Historic Mapping needs help Now!
I hope to be there long enough to map some(most?) of it, yes. The basic plan of the Muster is remarkably stable. There have been a few minor changes, but the basic camp grounds are pretty much forced by geography and the few permanent tracks, and there's only been one big change in the performance area layout (adding the blues pavilion) I remember, and that was quite a few years back. (though I've missed the last couple of years - I could be out of date). Even most of the food/craft stalls stay in the same place every year, though I don't think I'll be mapping to that detail - at least not this year. Stephen 2009/8/19 John Smith : > --- On Wed, 19/8/09, Stephen Hope wrote: > > Going to the Muster? > > Even when events are on the same space wouldn't the venue be laid out > differently each year? > ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] GSoC End: signFinder
On Wed, 19 Aug 2009 14:26:29 +0300, Erik Johansson wrote: > > Since this version can't be trained to handle white background signs, > I wonder what color are streetname signs around the world? > > Netherlands white on blue > Sweden black on white > In Finland: Black on white ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Lane turn restrictions
I admit that I ended up with a large and complex proposal. Since then it appeared that some aspects have already been covered. But not all of the lane part AFAIK. What you suggest whould probably be an independant proposal, at least for clarity reason, but has value nonetheless although I would prefer the "allowed" vs. "restriction" version because it's far more common if we interpret "allowed" as "suggested". On highways for instance, it's usually not so much prohibited as it'd be impractical, as it would require a sharp turn right before the exit/bifurcation. What's left to be clarified is how lanes are numbered. Yann Le 19 août 09 à 10:55, Steve Hill a écrit : > On Wed, 19 Aug 2009, Yann Coupin wrote: > >> I once started a proposition to do just that but it didn't get much >> traction, feel free to discuss it. >> >> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Relation:type%3Droute_instruction > > I've not read the discussion page yet, but some initial thoughts: > > Your first examples aren't topologically identical - the first is a > 2 lane road with a short 3 lane section followed by a right hand > turn whilst the second is a 3 lane road with a right hand turn > immediately followed by dropping down to 2 lanes. Of course, this > doesn't give you enough detail to know what lane you've got to be in > (although you could make some educated guesses). > > I also don't see the need for phonetics to be tagged (in fact, it > seems harmful because it breaks multi-language support). We don't > know what kind of display device is going to be used (whether it be > on-screen instructions, text to speech, etc.) and it should be up to > the software to decide how to present it to the user rather than > being explicitly tagged like that. > > Overall, the proposal seems a bit too complex - I had envisaged a > simpler system whereby you could set a relation similar to a turn > restriction, such as: > TAGs: > type: lane_restriction > lanes: 1,2 > Members: > from: > to: > via: > Whereby that marks a restriction that lanes 1 and 2 (the left two > lanes, in the case of the UK) cannot be used in a route using the > , and members. > > It would actually be nicer to be able to tag which lanes are allowed > rather than which are disallowed, but that would be inconsistent > with the existing turn restrictions (maybe that isn't a problem? > comments?) ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] GSoC End: signFinder
Preliminary, but at least we can conclude that the colors are diverse, and that black-on-white is rather common. I hope to be able to detect and read these eventually, but I'll have to come up with something better than the current color-histogram matching technique. :) - Tijs On Wed, Aug 19, 2009 at 7:30 AM, Teemu Koskinen wrote: > On Wed, 19 Aug 2009 14:26:29 +0300, Erik Johansson wrote: > >> >> Since this version can't be trained to handle white background signs, >> I wonder what color are streetname signs around the world? >> >> Netherlands white on blue >> Sweden black on white >> >> > In Finland: Black on white > ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Lane turn restrictions
> > What's left to be clarified is how lanes are numbered. > I'd suggest to be the inner one to be 1, ascending the more you're going to the border Peter ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] GSoC End: signFinder
Perhaps would be a good idea to set up a wiki page for the signs with the colors and a sample photo? Here in Rio de Janeiro, Brazil they're a rectangle with the street name in white on blue, and a blue on white stripe with the first and last building numbers of the block and the street's postcode (which are not like zip codes, they're different for every single street). Cheers 2009/8/19 Tijs Zwinkels > Preliminary, but at least we can conclude that the colors are diverse, and > that black-on-white is rather common. > > I hope to be able to detect and read these eventually, but I'll have to > come up with something better than the current color-histogram matching > technique. :) > > - Tijs > > > On Wed, Aug 19, 2009 at 7:30 AM, Teemu Koskinen > wrote: > >> On Wed, 19 Aug 2009 14:26:29 +0300, Erik Johansson wrote: >> >>> >>> Since this version can't be trained to handle white background signs, >>> I wonder what color are streetname signs around the world? >>> >>> Netherlands white on blue >>> Sweden black on white >>> >>> >> In Finland: Black on white >> > > > ___ > talk mailing list > talk@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk > > -- Arlindo Saraiva Pereira Jr. Bacharelando em Sistemas de Informação - UNIRIO - uniriotec.br Consultor de Software Livre da Uniriotec Consultoria - uniriotec.com Acadêmico: arlindo.pere...@uniriotec.br Profissional: arlindo.pere...@uniriotec.com Geral: cont...@arlindopereira.com Tel.: +5521 92504072 Jabber/Google Talk: nig...@nighto.net Skype: nighto_sumomo Chave pública: BD065DEC ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] GSoC End: signFinder
2009/8/19 Peter Körner : >> Since this version can't be trained to handle white background signs, >> I wonder what color are streetname signs around the world? >> >> Netherlands white on blue >> Sweden black on white > > German Black on White (newer) or White on dark Blue (older, but not > uncommon) and sometimes White on dark Red (very, old and seldom) IMHO that's a communal decision in Germany and can be (theoretically) all kind of colours. There is also white on blue. In Italy (at least in Rome) they are often engraved marble plates. See here for some examples: (might be harder I guess) http://www.23hq.com/dieterdreist/photo/4809579?album_id=4237494 http://www.23hq.com/dieterdreist/photo/4809316?album_id=4237494 http://www.23hq.com/dieterdreist/photo/4715414?album_id=4237494 cheers, Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] GSoC End: signFinder
Arlindo Pereira wrote: > Perhaps would be a good idea to set up a wiki page for the signs with > the colors and a sample photo? Not to mention the habit of some municipalities here to clarify the name of the street on a separate line. Or what about Belgian bilingual signs, with a creative Rue actual name Straat system, cleverly making use of the fact that in French the 'street' word goes at the beginning and in Dutch it goes at the end. > building numbers of the block and the street's postcode (which are not > like zip codes, they're different for every single street). ZIP code systems are not always of the "one number for a big block of houses/streets" variety. -- Lennard ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Lane turn restrictions
On Wed, 19 Aug 2009, Peter Körner wrote: What's left to be clarified is how lanes are numbered. I'd suggest to be the inner one to be 1, ascending the more you're going to the border The police tend to number them with lane 1 being closest to the footway (i.e. the left lane in the UK, the right lane over much of the rest of the world). Although there could be something to be said for making it region-agnostic so that satnavs don't have to know what side of the road you drive in a specific region. -- - Steve xmpp:st...@nexusuk.org sip:st...@nexusuk.org http://www.nexusuk.org/ Servatis a periculum, servatis a maleficum - Whisper, Evanescence ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] GSoC End: signFinder
>here, whatever the local council decides to put up >often reflective silverish background, black letters >may be black on yellow >may be white on blue >may be green on white Where's "here"? The UK seems to be rather variable, black on white is most common but I've seen white on green, white on black, and rarely, other schemes such as white on blue. The UK seems to be particularly heterogeneous with regards to colour and font compared to other countries I've visited such as Germany and the USA. Other countries have more tendency for a national scheme, whereas the UK seems to depend on the local council, and even they are inconsistent (my own city has about 10 to 15 different styles, some introduced within a few months of each other!) Nick ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] GSoC End: signFinder
Nick Whitelegg writes: >>here, whatever the local council decides to put up >>often reflective silverish background, black letters >>may be black on yellow >>may be white on blue >>may be green on white > > Where's "here"? > The UK seems to be rather variable, black on white is most common but I've > seen white on green, white on black, and rarely, other schemes such as > white on blue. > > The UK seems to be particularly heterogeneous with regards to colour and > font compared to other countries I've visited such as Germany and the USA. > Other countries have more tendency for a national scheme, whereas the UK > seems to depend on the local council, and even they are inconsistent (my > own city has about 10 to 15 different styles, some introduced within a few > months of each other!) In Massachusetts, US, street sign coloring can vary at each town (where there are ~350 towns, many of which have ~ afew thousand people). There are a lot of white on green (my town), but the next town west has white on red. Plus, the town I grew up has black raised lettering on white with a black border (think pretty wrought iron) for old signs, but I think is replacing them with white on green. I would think the solution is an easy way to train/teach, not a giant database of the world, as it seems too variable in time to keep up with at that scale. pgp652sJyUrYr.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - miniature railway
2009/8/19 John Smith : > --- On Wed, 19/8/09, Peter Childs wrote: >> Are Miniture Railways a British Thing, or is it that they >> appear most >> often in the Uk? (Making us Brits a load of Train >> enthusiasts) > > There seems to be a number of them around Australia as well, some have a lot > of track, eg 4km of 5" and 7.25" track at Casino, NSW. > > http://www.casinominirail.com/ > > > > Ok, Its a Uk Bias on Wikipedia. I think the issue here is that Gauge and Width are different, Width Being the width of the trains, tunnels, or with of the railway and Gauge being the distance between the wheels Peter ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Lane turn restrictions
Plus what does "inner" mean on a oneway road? I think it's crucial that lane 1 is either left or right depending uppon what is decided but that it stays the same accross the world. It'll be unusable otherwise. I propose 1 is left because we start to write from the left. It's completly arbitrary, but that way at least it follows a logic that stays the same accross the channel :) And since the tags are in latin characters, it's just to be consistent, not to ignore people writing in arabic or hebrew (if people still take offense, I did my best not to ;) Yann Le 19 août 09 à 16:01, Steve Hill a écrit : >>> What's left to be clarified is how lanes are numbered. >> >> I'd suggest to be the inner one to be 1, ascending the more you're >> going to the border > > The police tend to number them with lane 1 being closest to the > footway (i.e. the left lane in the UK, the right lane over much of > the rest of the world). Although there could be something to be > said for making it region-agnostic so that satnavs don't have to > know what side of the road you drive in a specific region. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Local Chapters Meeting Minutes WAS Re: Status of the Local Chapter working group
On 18 Aug 2009, at 22:25, Frederik Ramm wrote: > Hi, > > Peter Miller wrote: >> I suggest that conference calls and IRC are only used for those >> issues >> where email is not working or getting to an resolution on a difficult >> subject. > > +1 > > Telephone calls are too intrusive. Someone might have to pick up their > child from school at the time you have scheduled the call; someone > might > have a hard time following people in a foreign language over a > distorted > voice link (mind you, the Cloudmade-sponsored telcos are vastly better > than any intercontinental VOIP stuff I've been participating in, but > still). > > I can see a role for Telcos where decisions need to be made quickly > but > there's no reason not to give ample time to everybody in the Local > Chapters issue. Just a small observation but if conf calls aren't allowed then I think complaints that things move too slowly should also be banned. John ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Local Chapters Meeting Minutes WAS Re: Status of the Local Chapter working group
--- On Thu, 20/8/09, John McKerrell wrote: > Just a small observation but if conf calls aren't allowed > then I think > complaints that things move too slowly should also be > banned. I don't think any form of communication should be excluded, however decisions only based on conf calls is a different matter. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Lane turn restrictions
Isn't "near-side" a term that can be used as a reference point on a road (left or right-hand driving)? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Lane turn restrictions
If we just add lane information to http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Relation:destination_sign can we make it work? /Martin > Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 09:55:01 +0100 (BST) > From: Steve Hill > Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Lane turn restrictions > To: Yann Coupin > Cc: talk@openstreetmap.org > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed > > On Wed, 19 Aug 2009, Yann Coupin wrote: > >> I once started a proposition to do just that but it didn't get much traction, >> feel free to discuss it. >> >> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Relation:type%3Droute_instruction > > I've not read the discussion page yet, but some initial thoughts: > > Your first examples aren't topologically identical - the first is a 2 lane > road with a short 3 lane section followed by a right hand turn whilst the > second is a 3 lane road with a right hand turn immediately followed by > dropping down to 2 lanes. Of course, this doesn't give you enough detail > to know what lane you've got to be in (although you could make some > educated guesses). > > I also don't see the need for phonetics to be tagged (in fact, it seems > harmful because it breaks multi-language support). We don't know what > kind of display device is going to be used (whether it be on-screen > instructions, text to speech, etc.) and it should be up to the software to > decide how to present it to the user rather than being explicitly tagged > like that. > > Overall, the proposal seems a bit too complex - I had envisaged a > simpler system whereby you could set a relation similar to a turn > restriction, such as: > TAGs: > type: lane_restriction > lanes: 1,2 > Members: > from: > to: > via: > Whereby that marks a restriction that lanes 1 and 2 (the left two lanes, > in the case of the UK) cannot be used in a route using the , > and members. > > It would actually be nicer to be able to tag which lanes are allowed > rather than which are disallowed, but that would be inconsistent with the > existing turn restrictions (maybe that isn't a problem? comments?) ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Proliferation of path vs. footway
Hi! The discussion has died down again. Much was said and I even had the impression that there was a little progress in some details. But, as usual, we don't have a result. Therefore I have started a consolidation page in the wiki to collect the problems, use cases and ideas for resolving them. I would like to invite all of you who are interested in working on the matter to contribute your recollection to the page and maybe develop it into a solution proposal that is not a one-man endeavour but well discussed by a group of people. You'll find the start of it here: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Consolidation_footway_cycleway_path Once we have collected the pieces from this discussion, it might be a good idea to invite folks on national mailing lists to join in and contribute their use cases. bye Nop -- Jetzt kostenlos herunterladen: Internet Explorer 8 und Mozilla Firefox 3 - sicherer, schneller und einfacher! http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/atbrowser ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Maps and Semantic Maps
Hey, I'm one of this years GSoC students for Wikimedia Foundation, and have created 2 new mapping extensions for MediaWiki: Maps [0, 1] and Semantic Maps [2, 3]. These extensions have a setup that allows the adding of multiple new mapping services by simply hooking into it. They currently have support for Google Maps, Yahoo! Maps, and most relevant here, OpenLayers. When using the OL service, you can specify the base layers, including the OSM ones. Maps and Semantic Maps are not related to SlippyMap [4], and have a different set of features. Suggestions on how to improve the handling of OSM in Maps are welcome. Also feel free to make your own contributions. [0] http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Maps [1]http://wiki.bn2vs.com/wiki/Maps/OpenLayers (Maps OL demo's) [2] http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Semantic_Maps [3] http://wiki.bn2vs.com/wiki/Semantic_Maps/OpenLayers (Semantic Maps OL demo's) [4]http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SlippyMap Cheers, Jeroen De Dauw Forum: code.bn2vs.com Blog: blog.bn2vs.com Skype: rts.bn.vs ; Xfire: bn2vs Don't panic. Don't be evil. 70 72 6F 67 72 61 6D 6D 69 6E 67 20 34 20 6C 69 66 65! ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Historic Mapping needs help Now!
On Wed, Aug 19, 2009 at 8:25 PM, Joseph Reeves wrote: > > Sounds like start_date and end_date would work fine in this situation. Can I just point out, the proposal I linked to before (link below) met with some objections to start_date and end_date, so you may want to re-think the situation more broadly and address the proposal before going ahead. Of course, if you're mapping the event before the proposal is sorted, go for it, but then come back and contribute to the discussion :) http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/4th_Dimension ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Lane turn restrictions
On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 12:39 AM, Yann Coupin wrote: > Plus what does "inner" mean on a oneway road? I think it's crucial > that lane 1 is either left or right depending uppon what is decided > but that it stays the same accross the world. It'll be unusable > otherwise. > > I propose 1 is left because we start to write from the left. +1. But I agree with Tobias also - we should first create a "good concept for modelling the lanes themselves". Tobias, could you link to the latest/most promising proposal, if there is one? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Lane turn restrictions
On Wed, 19 Aug 2009 15:01:24 +0100 (BST), Steve Hill wrote: > On Wed, 19 Aug 2009, Peter Körner wrote: > >>> What's left to be clarified is how lanes are numbered. >>> >> >> I'd suggest to be the inner one to be 1, ascending the more you're going >> to >> the border > > The police tend to number them with lane 1 being closest to the footway > (i.e. the left lane in the UK, the right lane over much of the rest of the > world). Although there could be something to be said for making it > region-agnostic so that satnavs don't have to know what side of the road > you drive in a specific region. In Brazil, where lane numbers have been signed (at least where I have seen such signs), the numbering follows the direction you read, i.e. from left to right. Left most lane is 1, and rightmost lane is n. For example when leaving Vitoria, passing the bus station the road is 8 lane for a short bit, with signs saying "lane 1, 2 to 5th bridge, lane 3, 4 to bus station and return to centro, lane 5, 6 to 1st bridge, lane 7, 8 to some suburb". Maybe lane numbering is country specific, I don't know. -- Brgds Aun Johnsen via Webmail ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Business Building Conventions
If I draw an outline for a freestanding building which is some kind of business, then I give the outline a name. Mapnik renders the name. If I draw the outline of a strip mall (a connected string of shops) this represents several businesses together. If I then put nodes on them and give the nodes names Mapnik won't render the names unless they are amenities. But not all businesses are amenities. So when handling strip malls should the outline of each business "unit" be drawn separately? Or should I just ignore the fact that the names of many businesses won't appear on the map? thanks, Andy -- Andy PGP Key ID: 0xDC1B5864 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Encourage foundation candidates to self-govern
The Foundation board should have no more than one candidate from each company in my opinion. http://weait.com/content/osmf-candidate-recall ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Lane turn restrictions
Well, I don't know about Hebrew. But at least some of the languages that use Arabic script (there are many) write the sentences and words from right to left, but the numbers from left to right. I have no idea about Chinese/Japanese etc. But I think that left to right for numbers, while not universal, is possibly the most known version. Stephen 2009/8/20 Yann Coupin : > Plus what does "inner" mean on a oneway road? I think it's crucial > that lane 1 is either left or right depending uppon what is decided > but that it stays the same accross the world. It'll be unusable > otherwise. > > I propose 1 is left because we start to write from the left. It's > completly arbitrary, but that way at least it follows a logic that > stays the same accross the channel :) And since the tags are in latin > characters, it's just to be consistent, not to ignore people writing > in arabic or hebrew (if people still take offense, I did my best not > to ;) > > Yann ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Business Building Conventions
On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 10:29 AM, Andrew Ayre wrote: > If I draw an outline for a freestanding building which is some kind of > business, then I give the outline a name. Mapnik renders the name. > > If I draw the outline of a strip mall (a connected string of shops) this > represents several businesses together. If I then put nodes on them and > give the nodes names Mapnik won't render the names unless they are > amenities. But not all businesses are amenities. > > So when handling strip malls should the outline of each business "unit" > be drawn separately? Or should I just ignore the fact that the names of > many businesses won't appear on the map? IMHO, you should map whatever is on the ground. Mapping the outline of business "units" is not a bad idea - perhaps you should check out the following proposal: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Relations/Proposed/Buildings As for "ignoring the fact that the names of many businesses won't appear on the map", yes, you should ignore this - don't tag for the renderer. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Business Building Conventions
Roy Wallace wrote: > On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 10:29 AM, Andrew Ayre wrote: >> If I draw an outline for a freestanding building which is some kind of >> business, then I give the outline a name. Mapnik renders the name. >> >> If I draw the outline of a strip mall (a connected string of shops) this >> represents several businesses together. If I then put nodes on them and >> give the nodes names Mapnik won't render the names unless they are >> amenities. But not all businesses are amenities. >> >> So when handling strip malls should the outline of each business "unit" >> be drawn separately? Or should I just ignore the fact that the names of >> many businesses won't appear on the map? > > IMHO, you should map whatever is on the ground. > > Mapping the outline of business "units" is not a bad idea - perhaps > you should check out the following proposal: > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Relations/Proposed/Buildings > > As for "ignoring the fact that the names of many businesses won't > appear on the map", yes, you should ignore this - don't tag for the > renderer. Thanks. It's not tagging for the renderer, it's using the renderer to give me a hint that I might be doing things wrong. However, if business names don't appear on the online maps which most people will use, I'm not sure how good an investment of my time it is to go around photographing buildings and adding the names. I want what I do to benefit the most people. Andy -- Andy PGP Key ID: 0xDC1B5864 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Encourage foundation candidates to self-govern
Richard Weait wrote: > The Foundation board should have no more than one candidate from each > company in my opinion. Unbelievable ! Sorry but why is Cloudmade trying to corrupt the free and open Openstreetmap with such actions ? Shame on you ! Matthias ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Business Building Conventions
On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 1:03 PM, Andrew Ayre wrote: > > Thanks. It's not tagging for the renderer, it's using the renderer to give > me a hint that I might be doing things wrong. Fair enough. But generally, I find it's not very useful for that purpose. Searching the wiki and/or asking the list like you have is the way to go. > However, if business names don't appear on the online maps which most people > will use, I'm not sure how good an investment of my time it is to go around > photographing buildings and adding the names. I want what I do to benefit > the most people. Do what you think will be useful *once the renderers have caught up*. If it is indeed useful, the renderers will eventually catch up. Also, don't forget that the data is (and may be) used in many more ways other than rendering an online map (e.g. in your case of business names, this is necessary to be able to search for a business location by name). ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Encourage foundation candidates to self-govern
They arn't, Its just we (as in the OpenStreetMap community) want to ensure that all decisions that get made, are done done so with the best interest of the community. And of course, it will. :-) (even with more CM staff on board As thats great to have) So having representatives who are working on all the other major projects (itoworld, marble desktop, kosmos, josm, openlayers, openarialmap, open-manyother-maps, walking papers) should all get focus too. And good representation, now that OSM is maturing and experiencing 'growing pains'. :-) Since OSMF is an international organization, we want to make sure that decisions arn't a single company, but always with the best interest of the 'spirit of OSM'. So im working on 'blind-faith' that everyone who wants to be a board member does so, because they want to keep the 'spirit of OSM' alive. Anyway, I noticed the post about a 'community non-profit company' on the diary board (or something like that) so its worth exploring further. Thats all for now, Cheers, Sam On 8/19/09, Matthias Versen wrote: > Richard Weait wrote: >> The Foundation board should have no more than one candidate from each >> company in my opinion. > > Unbelievable ! > Sorry but why is Cloudmade trying to corrupt the free and open > Openstreetmap with such actions ? > Shame on you ! > > Matthias > > > ___ > talk mailing list > talk@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk > -- Twitter: @Acrosscanada Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/sam.vekemans ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Twitter bots
Hi everyone, This weekend, I hacked together a quick twitter bot, which now tweets all changesets in a certain are (in my case, Darmstadt, Germany) - see http://twitter.com/osm_darmstadt I've found it quite useful thus far, on the one hand I write better changeset comments, because I know they will be on Twitter, on the other hand, I see what happens in my community. If you want to run a similar bot, you can find the source at http://git.alech.de/?p=osm_twitter_bots.git Alternatively, I can add a bit of code to run more than one bot at a time and run a few of them for you (until I hit the Twitter API limits), I'd only need a name and a bounding box for that. Cheers, Alex signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
