Re: [OSM-talk] Cycleways wiki doc enhanced
On Tue, Dec 29, 2009 at 5:11 AM, Steve Bennett wrote:
> 1) Not sure why you're using "highway=unclassified" - you know
> "unclassified' is a particular type of road, right? Whereas cycleways can
> occur on almost any kind of road. So you probably should write something
> like "highway=".
The problem is the or <*> could be interpreted as
highway=cycleway as well. I will improve that and add a footnote.
> 2) In example L1a, I have a strong preference for using existing tags
> (cycleway=lane) if possible, rather than introducing new, unsupported tags
> (cycleway:left=lane). Similarly for M4 and probably others.
But it is documented in
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:cycleway since a while and is
about 100 times in osmdoc. The problem with cycleway=lane is that the
wiki never says clearly if it is for both sides and both directions or
if it can apply for one side only.
> 3) Make it clearer in the intro that these examples are all for a
> right-drive country.
Done
> 4) Avoid using "same as <...>" - just restate it, imho.
Hmm, but the advantage of this is when tagging evolves, we are sure it
is edited once for all.
> 5) IMHO it's a bit confusing that "Way A" is the right-hand side way.
>
> 6) You could also add "cycleway=no" where appropriate.
where ?
> 7) You don't make allowance for segregated cycleways
> ("tracks"/copenhagen-style lanes) that aren't represented as distinct ways.
> Is "highway=residential, cycleway=track" not possible?
You mean for T1 and T2 but with only one way in OSM, right (the track
is not traced separately) ? I didn't know it was called the
"copenhagen-style". I will add it but not as a recommended solution.
> 8) Since I don't think we have total consensus on how to map all this stuff,
> it might be worth setting up multiple columns to show how different groups
> are currently mapping, and using that to work towards consensus.
I would prefere multiple rows (see previous point).
I can also add more examples if someone asks for it.
Pieren
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Re: [OSM-talk] Cycleways wiki doc enhanced
On Tue, Dec 29, 2009 at 10:32 PM, Pieren wrote:
> But it is documented in
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:cycleway since a while and is
> about 100 times in osmdoc. The problem with cycleway=lane is that the
> wiki never says clearly if it is for both sides and both directions or
> if it can apply for one side only.
>
I think cycleway=lane clearly implies that there are lanes on both sides,
hence why replacing that with cycleway:left= is bad. If there is only one
lane, then fair enough to not use cycleway=lane.
>
> > 6) You could also add "cycleway=no" where appropriate.
> where ?
>
In the examples with a way that has no cycleway, like M5.
>
> > 7) You don't make allowance for segregated cycleways
> > ("tracks"/copenhagen-style lanes) that aren't represented as distinct
> ways.
> > Is "highway=residential, cycleway=track" not possible?
>
> You mean for T1 and T2 but with only one way in OSM, right (the track
> is not traced separately) ? I didn't know it was called the
> "copenhagen-style". I will add it but not as a recommended solution.
>
The term "copenhagen style bike lane" is widely used in Australia, seems to
be used in New York, and maybe some other places - it's hard to tell.
I am indeed talking about examples like T1 and T2. I don't see why it should
be necessary to separately trace the bike path if it exactly follows the
contour of the road. Just like we don't map pavements and lanes and stuff
like that.
Steve
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Re: [OSM-talk] augmenting contour data with gps track logs
On Tue, Dec 29, 2009 at 12:01 AM, Liz wrote: > There are many sources of error in SRTM and GPS and barometric height > measures. > First of all > Height compared to what? > WGS84 adjusted by the deviation between WGS84 and EGM96 at the lat/lon of the measurement? Would that work? A fast bicycle descent wrecks the height calculation because the processor > is > too slow. > Could that be resolved by asking it to output raw WGS84 altitudes and then doing the calculations to adjust it to MSL offline? Just questions. I don't know enough about this stuff to have the answers. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Cycleways wiki doc enhanced
On Tue, Dec 29, 2009 at 1:48 PM, Steve Bennett wrote: > I think cycleway=lane clearly implies that there are lanes on both sides, > hence why replacing that with cycleway:left= is bad. If there is only one > lane, then fair enough to not use cycleway=lane. > Then for the case M1, highway=road + oneway=yes + cycleway=lane is enough ? Pieren ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] What's the policy on unsurveyed roads from imagery?
On Mon, Dec 28, 2009 at 11:27 PM, Steve Bennett wrote: > On Sun, Dec 27, 2009 at 3:08 AM, Anthony wrote: > > >That said, I personally find the highway tagging guidelines difficult to > apply anyway. In states without formal legal road classifications we might > as well mark everything except motorways and service roads as "road" for all > I can tell. Anything else is just tagging for the renderer. > > Definitely the worst misunderstanding of "tagging for the renderer" that > I've seen so far. If I understand you right, you see two options for > tagging: either tag everything 100% objectively based on hard facts like > speed limits and documentation, or tag completely arbitrarily. > You certainly don't "understand me right". Where do you read that I suggested that tagging completely arbitrarily is an option? There are an infinite number of options for tagging. But there's only one correct one - use objective definitions. Suffice to say there is a very healthy middle ground, where there *is* > benefit in distinguishing primary roads from tertiary from > residential...even if based on rough observation. > Rough observation of what? I have no problem with rough observation. What I have a problem with is everyone making up their own definition. Once you've made up the definitions of primary, secondary, and tertiary, I think you'll find that applying those definitions can be easily automated. Sure, there might be some tweaks here and there where we find we need to add exceptions to the original definitions (e.g. a road with speed bumps is never a primary), but at least you'll end up with a consistent system. > Mapping a road "the wrong color" when there aren't any traffic_calming tags >> is another great way to get people adding appropriate tags. >> > > What's so important about traffic_calming tags? True, they will affect > accurate trip time planning, but is that it? > You wouldn't want to color a road with speed bumps as a primary, would you? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] What's the policy on unsurveyed roads from imagery?
On Tue, Dec 29, 2009 at 1:34 AM, John Smith wrote: > 2009/12/29 Steve Bennett : > > What's so important about traffic_calming tags? True, they will affect > > accurate trip time planning, but is that it? > > He's assuming it's a objective way to map residential streets, main > through fares generally don't have traffic calming devices. > > However that doesn't always hold water here since those ways might be > the main shopping area of small towns, so you need to distinguish them > from alternative routes as well. Honestly, I don't know if speed bumps would come into play or not. I kind of assume there wouldn't be a primary road which has speed bumps, but I'm willing to be proven wrong on that. Furthermore, there might not be any road which would have been defined as primary were it not for the speed bumps, so this part of the definition might be irrelevant. I don't know what the perfect definition is. But I think we'd be much better off putting in a definition, looking at the map, tweaking the definition, looking at the map again, etc. until we have something we like, then telling people "go map primary/secondary/tertiary based on whatever definition you feel like using" and expecting to get very useful results. I don't think this can be completely > tagged in an objective manner like that simply because some streets > that are now less important for traffic are still very important for > pedestrian traffic and where pedestrians want to drive to before they > become pedestrians. > I'm not sure what exactly that means, but whatever it does mean, why can't it be incorporated into the definition? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] What's the policy on unsurveyed roads from imagery?
> (e.g. a road with speed bumps is never a primary) You've obviously never been to Mexico City. - L ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] How to manage GPX files?
What software do people use to manage their GPX files? Mainly I want to be able to upload sections of GPX – rather than the whole thing – to Potlatch. And it might be nice to be able to combine a couple of traces into one long trace. Thanks, Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] How to manage GPX files?
Before I learned about OSM, I had already purchased some commercial software called ExpertGPS (the Pro version so I could convert the traces to SHP). I could do the GPX->SHP conversion with free tools now that I've learned about it. What I still like about ExpertGPS is the ease of editing GPX tracks, and I also use it to download the waypoints directly from my eTrex Vista hcx. Easy to trim the traces, and more importantly, easy to "simplify" them down to few enough points that I often feel comfortable converting the traces directly into OSM ways (via JOSM) rather than tracing over them as GPS tracks. I'd recommend installing and learning to use JOSM if you're inclined to edit things. On Wed, Dec 30, 2009 at 08:25:44AM +1100, Steve Bennett wrote: > What software do people use to manage their GPX files? Mainly I want to be > able to upload sections of GPX rather than the whole thing to Potlatch. > And it might be nice to be able to combine a couple of traces into one long > trace. > > Thanks, > Steve > ___ > talk mailing list > talk@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] What's the policy on unsurveyed roads from imagery?
I'm afraid I wasn't mapping that day, but on a minibus jaunt out to San Andrés Mixquic from la Ciudad (in order to celebrate the Day of the Dead) we slowed down to about 5 mph for speed humps many times, several times on dual carriageways! - L On 29 Dec 2009, at 18:22, Anthony wrote: > On Tue, Dec 29, 2009 at 1:08 PM, Laurence Penney wrote: > > (e.g. a road with speed bumps is never a primary) > > You've obviously never been to Mexico City. > > - L > > > No, I haven't, but do you have a specific counter-example in mind? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] How to manage GPX files?
On Wed, Dec 30, 2009 at 7:25 AM, Steve Bennett wrote: > > What software do people use to manage their GPX files? Mainly I want to be > able to upload sections of GPX – rather than the whole thing – to Potlatch. > And it might be nice to be able to combine a couple of traces into one long > trace. I use Prune (http://activityworkshop.net/software/prune/) to edit GPX files, then upload the final GPX files via the OSM website. It's not fantastic, but it's the best I could find, is under active development and getting better. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] How to manage GPX files?
Depends on what your into really For an Opensource - cross platform option you can't beat GPSBabel It runs on Window, Mac and Linux See: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Gpsbabel I use it for everything and manage a lot of gpstracks cheersdave 2009/12/30 David Carmean : > > Before I learned about OSM, I had already purchased some commercial > software called ExpertGPS (the Pro version so I could convert the > traces to SHP). I could do the GPX->SHP conversion with free tools > now that I've learned about it. > > What I still like about ExpertGPS is the ease of editing GPX tracks, and > I also use it to download the waypoints directly from my eTrex Vista hcx. > Easy to trim the traces, and more importantly, easy to "simplify" them down > to few enough points that I often feel comfortable converting the traces > directly into OSM ways (via JOSM) rather than tracing over them as GPS tracks. > > I'd recommend installing and learning to use JOSM if you're inclined to edit > things. > > > On Wed, Dec 30, 2009 at 08:25:44AM +1100, Steve Bennett wrote: >> What software do people use to manage their GPX files? Mainly I want to be >> able to upload sections of GPX – rather than the whole thing – to Potlatch. >> And it might be nice to be able to combine a couple of traces into one long >> trace. >> >> Thanks, >> Steve > >> ___ >> talk mailing list >> talk@openstreetmap.org >> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk > > > ___ > talk mailing list > talk@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk > ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] How to manage GPX files?
Opps sorry .. I meant to post to the list ... 2009/12/30 Dave G <9gerk...@gmail.com>: > Depends on what your into really > > For an Opensource - cross platform option you can't beat GPSBabel > > It runs on Window, Mac and Linux > > See: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Gpsbabel > > I use it for everything and manage a lot of gpstracks > > cheersdave > > 2009/12/30 David Carmean : >> >> Before I learned about OSM, I had already purchased some commercial >> software called ExpertGPS (the Pro version so I could convert the >> traces to SHP). I could do the GPX->SHP conversion with free tools >> now that I've learned about it. >> >> What I still like about ExpertGPS is the ease of editing GPX tracks, and >> I also use it to download the waypoints directly from my eTrex Vista hcx. >> Easy to trim the traces, and more importantly, easy to "simplify" them down >> to few enough points that I often feel comfortable converting the traces >> directly into OSM ways (via JOSM) rather than tracing over them as GPS >> tracks. >> >> I'd recommend installing and learning to use JOSM if you're inclined to edit >> things. >> >> >> On Wed, Dec 30, 2009 at 08:25:44AM +1100, Steve Bennett wrote: >>> What software do people use to manage their GPX files? Mainly I want to be >>> able to upload sections of GPX – rather than the whole thing – to Potlatch. >>> And it might be nice to be able to combine a couple of traces into one long >>> trace. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Steve >> >>> ___ >>> talk mailing list >>> talk@openstreetmap.org >>> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk >> >> >> ___ >> talk mailing list >> talk@openstreetmap.org >> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk >> > ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] How to manage GPX files?
Roy thanks for that wow Prune has really come along since I looked at it last, time for another look cheers...dave 2009/12/30 Roy Wallace : > On Wed, Dec 30, 2009 at 7:25 AM, Steve Bennett wrote: >> >> What software do people use to manage their GPX files? Mainly I want to be >> able to upload sections of GPX – rather than the whole thing – to Potlatch. >> And it might be nice to be able to combine a couple of traces into one long >> trace. > > I use Prune (http://activityworkshop.net/software/prune/) to edit GPX > files, then upload the final GPX files via the OSM website. It's not > fantastic, but it's the best I could find, is under active development > and getting better. > > ___ > talk mailing list > talk@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk > ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] How to manage GPX files?
> > > I wrote my own scripts based on bash, sed, tar and the java class GpxUpload. Basically I made it because there was something wrong with the output of my GPX tracks from the GPS (think regional settings was applied on the tags) so I had to clean the GPX files before they could be uploaded to OSM or loaded in JOSM. If you are running Linux or Mac, than bash scripting is really not a big deal. Since GPX is an XML standard file, than most command line text manipulation tools could be applied. If you run Windows you might want to install Cygwin in order to allow bash scripting, though I have no idea how much of the scripting that will work. If you run Mac than AppleScript can be an alternative, though I havn't even started to look at that since it also comes with bash. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] How to manage GPX files?
On Tuesday 29 December 2009, Steve Bennett wrote: > What software do people use to manage their GPX files? Mainly I want to be > able to upload sections of GPX – rather than the whole thing – to Potlatch. > And it might be nice to be able to combine a couple of traces into one long > trace. I use gpsman which, being a tcl/tk app, is slightly odd but actually works quite well. robert. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] How to manage GPX files?
On Wed, Dec 30, 2009 at 8:45 AM, David Carmean wrote: > What I still like about ExpertGPS is the ease of editing GPX tracks, and > I also use it to download the waypoints directly from my eTrex Vista hcx. > Easy to trim the traces, and more importantly, easy to "simplify" them down > to few enough points that I often feel comfortable converting the traces > directly into OSM ways (via JOSM) rather than tracing over them as GPS > tracks. > > I'd recommend installing and learning to use JOSM if you're inclined to > edit > things. > > Hmm, hadn't thought of doing it that way: convert to way, then trim. I do have JOSM installed, but much prefer the Potlatch interface. JOSM also seems to be very slow when you have a largeish area loaded. Anyway, Prune looks like it will do the job. Aun: Bash scripting is really not my thing. I guess it's personal, but it's just not the way I like to solve problems. I'll leave it at that to avoid a flamewar. :) Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] How to manage GPX files?
Dave G wrote: > Depends on what your into really > > For an Opensource - cross platform option you can't beat GPSBabel > > It runs on Window, Mac and Linux > > See: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Gpsbabel > > I use it for everything and manage a lot of gpstracks I admit I haven't looked to deeply into it but in GPSBabel I can split the ways on a time basis within the Filters options but unable to do the same for waypoints. If you know how to do that could you post please. To split GPX I use EasyGPS: http://www.easygps.com/ Does anyone know if anybody's developing a direct download of tracks from GPSses into OSM? This function was recently (I think) added to the free version of Google Earth. It makes life a lot simpler. Cheers Dave F. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Potlatch not displaying bridges
Hi Is this just me or widespread? When editing in Potlatch any bridges that I, or others, have tagged in the last 3-4 weeks don't display with the heavier black border lines. Any that were tagged before display fine. All bridges display correctly in Mapnik. Any ideas? Cheers Dave F. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] How to manage GPX files?
On Wed, 30 Dec 2009, Steve Bennett wrote: > JOSM also seems > to be very slow when you have a largeish area loaded. enlarge your Java VM eg java -Xms1536m -Xmx1536m -jar /usr/share/josm/josm.jar ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] How to manage GPX files?
Hi Dave F I found that the later versions of EasyGPS were a bit flake on Linux (and wine) so I stopped using it I have written a couple of bash scripts available here which might be of use to Linux users available from the wiki: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Gerkin Aun I would be keen to look at your GPS bash scripts/and have a hack around with them etc. if possible Are they available?? cheers...dave 2009/12/30 Liz : > On Wed, 30 Dec 2009, Steve Bennett wrote: >> JOSM also seems >> to be very slow when you have a largeish area loaded. > enlarge your Java VM > eg java -Xms1536m -Xmx1536m -jar /usr/share/josm/josm.jar > > > > ___ > talk mailing list > talk@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk > ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Potlatch not displaying bridges
On Wed, Dec 30, 2009 at 2:35 PM, Dave F. wrote: > Is this just me or widespread? > > When editing in Potlatch any bridges that I, or others, have tagged in > the last 3-4 weeks don't display with the heavier black border lines. > Any that were tagged before display fine. > > All bridges display correctly in Mapnik. > > Seems to work ok for me. Tagged a road as "bridge=yes" and it instantly had thick black borders. Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] How to manage GPX files?
On Wed, 30 Dec 2009 14:50:04 +1100, Liz wrote: > On Wed, 30 Dec 2009, Steve Bennett wrote: >> JOSM also seems >> to be very slow when you have a largeish area loaded. > enlarge your Java VM > eg java -Xms1536m -Xmx1536m -jar /usr/share/josm/josm.jar Is it just me or is there a limit to the size of the Java VM you can enter in Windows XP? I've had on separate occasions had to lower the limit to something like 1300 because it just wouldn't run. Regards, Maarten ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
