[OSM-talk] Feature Proposal - Voting - Craft

[Peter Körner]

Hi All,

after two weeks without contradictions, I'll open up voting for the 
Craft proposal:

  

Thank you for your vote.

Peter

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Re: [OSM-talk] Feature Proposal - Voting - Craft

[M∡rtin Koppenhoefer]

I already voted yes, but actually agricultural_engines doesn't
correspond to Landmaschinen, it might be agricultural_machinery, see
here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agricultural_machinery
(but this article actually looks like it was created by a German,
maybe someone else can help us).

The point is that "Landmaschinen" comprises ploughs and other
mechanical machinery without engine.

cheers,
Martin

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Re: [OSM-talk] Feature Proposal - Voting - Craft

[M∡rtin Koppenhoefer]

craft=fashion should be fashion_designer to correpond to the
translation, but still this is not a craft. I would put it in office.

jeweler is AE ,use jeweller (BE)

craft=photo is too generic, there is not explanation given (just
questionmarks), and it isn't a craft IMHO.

instead of staging I'd use scaffolding

I'd consider all of these corrections minor, so voting shouldn't be affected.

Cheers,
Martin

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Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Would The ODbL and BY-SA Clash In A Database Extracted From a BY-SA Produced Work?

[Francis Davey]

On 7 September 2010 16:51, Anthony  wrote:
>
> Ah, I see there is a provision for this in the EU database right: "In
> respect of a database created by a group of natural persons jointly,
> the exclusive rights shall be owned jointly."

Yes, that's what I was alluding to. If there were no OSMF and the
project was being carried out by a group of interested individuals -
as quite a few crowd-gathering of data projects are - then that might
apply.

>
> Of course, if a joint database right works like joint copyright, it's
> fairly useless.  Any joint owner of the database right would have full
> sub-licensable rights to the database, so long as they account for and
> share all their profits in using that right.  All it takes is one
> joint owner to grant a free worldwide license to do anything, and the
> database right is effectively gone.

H, that sounds wrong to me. Joint ownership of copyright does not
work in that way at all. Either owner may prevent the other from (for
example) copying their joint work. If one joint owner licences their
work, it might well estop them from making any claim against
licensees, but the other joint owners would not be bound by it.

That's why joint copyright ownership is a ghastly thing and I try to
dissuade clients from entering into joint ownership agreements unless
there's a really good reason to do so.

Regulation 16(1) of the Copyright and Rights in Databases Regulations
1997 works in a similar way. It states:

"16. — (1)  Subject to the provisions of this Part, a person infringes
database right in a database if, without the consent of the owner of
the right, he extracts or re-utilises all or a substantial part of the
contents of the database."

Where "consent of the owner" means the joint consent of all owners.

-- 
Francis Davey

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Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Would The ODbL and BY-SA Clash In A Database Extracted From a BY-SA Produced Work?

[Anthony]

On Tue, Sep 7, 2010 at 11:23 AM, Rob Myers  wrote:
> On 09/07/2010 04:00 PM, Anthony wrote:
>> Maybe.  OSM existed two years before OSMF, so OSMF would probably have
>> a pretty tough time claiming that it is the maker of the database.
>
> They are the maker of the current database.

According to whom?  Or according to what analysis?

I don't see it.

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Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Would The ODbL and BY-SA Clash In A Database Extracted From a BY-SA Produced Work?

[Anthony]

On Tue, Sep 7, 2010 at 12:14 PM, Francis Davey  wrote:
> On 7 September 2010 16:51, Anthony  wrote:
>> Of course, if a joint database right works like joint copyright, it's
>> fairly useless.  Any joint owner of the database right would have full
>> sub-licensable rights to the database, so long as they account for and
>> share all their profits in using that right.  All it takes is one
>> joint owner to grant a free worldwide license to do anything, and the
>> database right is effectively gone.
>
> H, that sounds wrong to me. Joint ownership of copyright does not
> work in that way at all.

Sorry, I was inappropriately extrapolating from how it works in the US
(http://www.universityofcalifornia.edu/copyright/ownership.html) to
how it might work in the EU.

[quote]
Absent an agreement to the contrary, authors own the work jointly and
equally. Each joint author, therefore, has the right to exercise any
or all of the exclusive rights inherent in the joint work. (For more
information on the exclusive rights of the copyright owner, see What
is copyright? from the Office of Technology Transfer.) This means that
each author can grant third parties permission to use the work on a
nonexclusive basis without the consent of other joint authors. Each
author may also transfer his or her entire ownership interest to
another person without the other joint authors' consent. Each author
may also update the work for his or her own purposes. Additionally,
each joint author has a duty to account to the other joint authors for
any profits received from licensing the joint work.
[/quote]

> That's why joint copyright ownership is a ghastly thing and I try to
> dissuade clients from entering into joint ownership agreements unless
> there's a really good reason to do so.

Wow, yeah, here in the US it's just the opposite.  If you create a
joint work and don't enter into a joint ownership agreement, things
get really complicated really quickly.

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Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Would The ODbL and BY-SA Clash In A Database Extracted From a BY-SA Produced Work?

[Rob Myers]

On 09/07/2010 05:15 PM, Anthony wrote:

On Tue, Sep 7, 2010 at 11:23 AM, Rob Myers  wrote:

On 09/07/2010 04:00 PM, Anthony wrote:

Maybe.  OSM existed two years before OSMF, so OSMF would probably have
a pretty tough time claiming that it is the maker of the database.


They are the maker of the current database.


According to whom?  Or according to what analysis?

I don't see it.


Then the new CTs are a very good idea. ;-)

- Rob.

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Re: [OSM-talk] [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - Craft

[John Smith]

On 8 September 2010 02:01, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer  wrote:
> craft=fashion should be fashion_designer to correpond to the
> translation, but still this is not a craft. I would put it in office.

or shop...

I'd also consider things like hairdresser to be in shop, even though
it might be seen as a craft, same with handicraft (shop=craft),
locksmith (shop=locksmith), optician (shop=optometrist), saddler
(shop=saddlery) as that is how these are commonly referred to in
english...

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Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Google MapMaker and OSM data...

[Eric Jarvies]

On Sep 7, 2010, at 10:02 AM, 80n wrote:

> Eric
> It is your content and your copyright.  If you believe that Google or anyone 
> else is infringing your copyright then it is your right to take up this issue 
> with them directly.  
> 
> Most infringments are accidental and if you approach the infringer in a 
> helpful and sympathetic way then they will usually react swiftly and be very 
> apologetic.  There was a very recent case with Waze which was dealt with very 
> promptly and to everyone's satisfaction: 
> http://www.waze.com/blog/thanks-and-huge-apology-to-the-openstreetmap-community/
> 
> In the first instance it is often better to deal with these things off-list 
> rather than naming the possible offender in public.
> 
> OSMF's role is to provide support to contributors, and you may find that they 
> can help you deal with the issue.  The Data Working Group is the team that 
> deals with this kind of thing: 
> http://www.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Working_Groups#Data_Working_Group  They are 
> well connected and can probably help you contact the correct people within 
> Google.
> 
> I think we'd all love Google to use OSM content and they are welcome to do so 
> as long they provide the correct attribution.  This is probably the right 
> spirit in which to approach them initially.
> 
> 80n
> 

Thanks for the explanation/advise.

Eric

> 
> 
> On Tue, Sep 7, 2010 at 4:23 PM, Eric Jarvies  wrote:
> Perhaps someone who knows can answer my original question... does Google 
> MapMaker use(according to the OSM license) OSM data? If not, then perhaps the 
> person/people whom typically deal with these matters can communicate with me 
> accordingly, so I may provide information and explain the situation in 
> detail, so it may be addressed pragmatically, either validating or 
> invalidating it prior to the entire list being pointed to(alerted of) the 
> suspected problem.
> 
> I say this because I do not have the -OSM- experience that is necessary to 
> validate what I suspect, as it relates to changesets, and being able to go 
> back a few versions and render the specific version in question, so it may be 
> compared with what is being used over at Google MapMaker.  I am 99.9% certain 
> that the coastline that is being displayed over there on Google MapMaker is 
> in fact one in the same as one of my screwed-up iterations, which has 
> subsequently been changed and hopefully repaired(but not yet rendered by 
> OSM... tick tock tick tock).  The very nature of the way I changed/edited the 
> coastline was deliberately inaccurate and very unique, meaning it did not 
> follow the real coastline, because at the time I was still trying to hunt 
> down a problem, a problem that I later discovered did not really exist(I just 
> needed to wait days/weeks for OSM to render the coastline), and so I arranged 
> the coastline in a very deliberate way so that I would see the change when it 
> rendered, as I was trying to substantiate if my changes were actually 
> occurring/working or not. 
> 
> Thus, anyone who is capable of going back to a previous version in this 
> particular way/changeset and rendering it, will be able to render the exact 
> same coastline that is being displayed over at Google MapMaker.
> 
> Is this how this type of issue is normally dealt with?
> 
> Eric
> 
> 
> 
> On Sep 7, 2010, at 8:00 AM, Emilie Laffray wrote:
> 
>> 
>> 
>> On 7 September 2010 14:51, Eric Jarvies  wrote:
>> Grant,
>> 
>> Yes, I can point to an example... but prior to bringing attention to the 
>> matter/area, I would instead prefer to monitor it and see what else appears. 
>>  The coastline, akaik, is not editable by users/contributors, which is why I 
>> asked if Google is now using OSM data.
>> 
>> 
>> I think that even an example would be nice, so more people can have a look 
>> at what is happening. It would be best if we realized what is going on 
>> sooner rather than later.
>> 
>> Emilie Laffray
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Re: [OSM-talk] Feature Proposal - Voting - Craft

[Peter Körner]

Am 07.09.2010 18:01, schrieb M∡rtin Koppenhoefer:

craft=fashion should be fashion_designer to correpond to the
translation, but still this is not a craft. I would put it in office.

I don't think so, but I'd be happy to discuss the pros and cons.

I see a fashion_designer as somebody who is creating custom-made 
clothes. Because he's creating something, it's a craft.



jeweler is AE ,use jeweller (BE)

i'd acknowledge.


craft=photo is too generic, there is not explanation given (just
questionmarks), and it isn't a craft IMHO.
it was added by some one else. I'd suggest photograph/photographer, or 
to follow the other values, photographing.



instead of staging I'd use scaffolding

i'd acknowledge.


I'd consider all of these corrections minor, so voting shouldn't be affected.
If no one speaks up, I'll make two changes to proposal 
(staging->scaffolding and jeweler->jeweller) and invite all to comment 
on the other two requested changes.


Peter

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Re: [OSM-talk] [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - Craft

[Peter Körner]

Am 07.09.2010 18:27, schrieb John Smith:

I'd also consider things like hairdresser to be in shop, even though
it might be seen as a craft,
I'd too regard craft=hairdresser as an uncommon combination. Any votes 
against removing craft=hairdresser from the list of common values?


> same with handicraft (shop=craft),
I see a differenct between producing handicraft work (craft=handicraft) 
and selling it (shop=handicraft). If both is located in a single place, 
there's no problem in dual-tagging with both keys.



locksmith (shop=locksmith)
I don't see a locksmith as a shop, even if it's usually called like 
that. In german it's called dienst (service) so it should maybe be 
office=locksmith but that doesn't match it either.


Looking at the tag definition, it would be a craft because it's creating 
custom-made things.


> optician (shop=optometrist), saddler

(shop=saddlery) as that is how these are commonly referred to in
english...
My arguments for keeping them are similar to those above for 
shop/craft=handicraft. There are always two parts involved: one is 
producing and one is selling. Sometimes one is more important and 
sometimes the other one. If both are similar important, there's no 
problem with adding both tags.


Peter

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Re: [OSM-talk] [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - Craft

[John Smith]

On 8 September 2010 05:03, Peter Körner  wrote:
> I don't see a locksmith as a shop, even if it's usually called like that. In
> german it's called dienst (service) so it should maybe be office=locksmith
> but that doesn't match it either.

Most locksmith's here either have a stall type setup in shopping
centres or have a shop, they cut keys and repair shoes, while they may
practise a craft or trade, they usually operate out of a shop, unless
they only do a mobile service which probably can't be tagged in any
case.

> Looking at the tag definition, it would be a craft because it's creating
> custom-made things.

How many lock smiths actually make something? The ones here sell and
install alarm/security systems, cut keys etc... They don't make their
own locks...

>> optician (shop=optometrist), saddler
>>
>> (shop=saddlery) as that is how these are commonly referred to in
>> english...
>
> My arguments for keeping them are similar to those above for
> shop/craft=handicraft. There are always two parts involved: one is producing
> and one is selling. Sometimes one is more important and sometimes the other
> one. If both are similar important, there's no problem with adding both
> tags.

I think you'll find most stuff is made else where, possibly lowest
bidder in china and imported in and sold through a shop, very few of
those trades/crafts are actually practiced any more in the sense that
you seem to be thinking...

How many blacksmiths still make swords?

How is this any different than a bakery, most small ones also have a
shop front and you care more about the shop front than if they grind
their own wheat...

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[OSM-talk] OSM into OOo document

[Donald Campbell II]

I've been working on getting points mapped and shown on an image in an
openoffice document.

I'm asking with the list to see if I can get some ideas or if this is
already done somewhere, perhaps I can avoid reinventing the wheel.

Basically I'm using the method described
hereto
load an image from a URL into a document as a bitmap.  What I'd like
to
do is use GPS coordinates from a database and show a few on each page mapped
as a group.  It's just an address list that shows all points on the map.

A few ideas I have...
1) Look around for sample code to determine the tiles and zoomlevels that
would holds the bounds I'd need to show all points in my set.  I'd still
have to figure out how to draw another image on top putting the points on
the right spot as well as how to make sure the images line up if I need
several tiles.

2) Find some sort of online API or website that will let me give it a set of
points by encoding them into a URL and then download an image.

I tried playing around with GPSvisualizer since waypoints can be put into
the URL but the result is a full webpage with layers and javascript, not a
simple image.  I tried the JPEG export options but that doesn't allow an OSM
background for whatever reason.

3) Find some sample javascript that does exactly what I need and get that to
run in Openoffice as a macro since javascript is supported.

So it seems my best options are #2 and #3.  Maybe someone already knows
where there's already a service or code to do close to what I need.  Any
other suggestions are appreciated as well.

Thanks,
-Don.
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Re: [OSM-talk] Feature Proposal - Voting - Craft

[M∡rtin Koppenhoefer]

2010/9/7 Peter Körner :
> Am 07.09.2010 18:01, schrieb M∡rtin Koppenhoefer:
>>
>> craft=fashion should be fashion_designer to correpond to the
>> translation, but still this is not a craft. I would put it in office.
>
> I don't think so, but I'd be happy to discuss the pros and cons.
>
> I see a fashion_designer as somebody who is creating custom-made clothes.
> Because he's creating something, it's a craft.


IMHO that's a taylor. A fashion designer is designing clothes that
then get produced in the textile industry.


>> craft=photo is too generic, there is not explanation given (just
>> questionmarks), and it isn't a craft IMHO.
>
> it was added by some one else. I'd suggest photograph/photographer, or to
> follow the other values, photographing.

+1

> If no one speaks up, I'll make two changes to proposal (staging->scaffolding
> and jeweler->jeweller) and invite all to comment on the other two requested
> changes.

fine

cheers,
Martin

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Re: [OSM-talk] [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - Craft

[M∡rtin Koppenhoefer]

2010/9/7 Peter Körner :
> Am 07.09.2010 18:27, schrieb John Smith:
>>
>> I'd also consider things like hairdresser to be in shop, even though
>> it might be seen as a craft,
>
> I'd too regard craft=hairdresser as an uncommon combination. Any votes
> against removing craft=hairdresser from the list of common values?


for me it's fine shop=hairdresser, but they are considered in Germany
to be part of the "Handwerk" (they are organized in a "Innung"). But
first come, first serve, shop is documented since Oct. 2009:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Tag:shop%3Dhairdresser&action=history


>> same with handicraft (shop=craft),
> I see a differenct between producing handicraft work (craft=handicraft) and
> selling it (shop=handicraft). If both is located in a single place, there's
> no problem in dual-tagging with both keys.

+1

> I don't see a locksmith as a shop, even if it's usually called like that. In
> german it's called dienst (service) so it should maybe be office=locksmith
> but that doesn't match it either.


to me this is clearly a craft, but it is also a wide field (in German:
"Schlosser", divided in industrial and craft, with several
specialisations: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schlosserei ). On the
other hand "Schlüsseldienst" (in English probably still "locksmith" or
" lock and key service") is maybe not a craft but a shop. Sometimes
English is poor ;-) (or maybe that's just my English)


>> optician (shop=optometrist)
craft IMHO, optometrist seems AE; BE: optician
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:shop%3Doptician
is already there, but this depends: there are shops that only sell
glasses and others that have the ability and license to fit them.

cheers,
Martin

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Re: [OSM-talk] [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - Craft

[M∡rtin Koppenhoefer]

2010/9/7 John Smith :

> How many lock smiths actually make something? The ones here sell and
> install alarm/security systems, cut keys etc... They don't make their
> own locks...


probably that would be better shop=alarm_systems? or burglar_alarm?
>


> I think you'll find most stuff is made else where, possibly lowest
> bidder in china and imported in and sold through a shop, very few of
> those trades/crafts are actually practiced any more in the sense that
> you seem to be thinking...


that's industry, not craft


> How many blacksmiths still make swords?

that's not the point.


> How is this any different than a bakery, most small ones also have a
> shop front and you care more about the shop front than if they grind
> their own wheat...


this is valid for many shops / crafts and I'd propose type=artisanal /
industrial for this. Maybe also another key than type. Could be used
for ice_cream as well ;-)

cheers,
Martin

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Re: [OSM-talk] [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - Craft

[John Smith]

On 8 September 2010 06:07, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer  wrote:
> 2010/9/7 John Smith :
>
>> How many lock smiths actually make something? The ones here sell and
>> install alarm/security systems, cut keys etc... They don't make their
>> own locks...
>
>
> probably that would be better shop=alarm_systems? or burglar_alarm?

The sign says locksmith...

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Re: [OSM-talk] OSM into OOo document

[andrzej zaborowski]

On 7 September 2010 21:42, Donald Campbell II  wrote:
> 2) Find some sort of online API or website that will let me give it a set of
> points by encoding them into a URL and then download an image.
> I tried playing around with GPSvisualizer since waypoints can be put into
> the URL but the result is a full webpage with layers and javascript, not a
> simple image.  I tried the JPEG export options but that doesn't allow an OSM
> background for whatever reason.

This site lets you do some of these things:
http://ojw.dev.openstreetmap.org/StaticMap/ , it's not perfect but it
works for me.

Any website based on C. Dauth's javascript classes also let you add
markers visually or encoded in the URL, http://osm.cdauth.eu/map/ is
an example.  But then you need to make screenshots.

Cheers

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Re: [OSM-talk] Feature Proposal - Voting - Craft

[Peter Körner]

Am 07.09.2010 21:43, schrieb M∡rtin Koppenhoefer:

IMHO that's a taylor. A fashion designer is designing clothes that
then get produced in the textile industry.

I removed craft=fashion from the list


craft=photo is too generic, there is not explanation given (just
questionmarks), and it isn't a craft IMHO.


it was added by some one else. I'd suggest photograph/photographer, or to
follow the other values, photographing.



If no one speaks up, I'll make two changes to proposal (staging->scaffolding
and jeweler->jeweller) and invite all to comment on the other two requested
changes.

I applied those changes and added photographic_laboratory.

I'm not happy that these questions did't came up during RFC stage but 
now during the voting stage. Does anybody think this is a problem for 
the validity of the votes?


Peter

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Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Would The ODbL and BY-SA Clash In A Database Extracted From a BY-SA Produced Work?

[edodd]

> 2) The "worldwide, royalty-free, non-exclusive, perpetual, irrevocable
> license to do any act that is restricted by copyright over anything
> within the Contents, whether in the original medium or any other"
> gives them that.
>

I got far enough through the Australian Copyright Act at the weekend to
discover that this won't extend to Australia.
Assignment of Australian copyright cannot be done over the internet.
There are new High Court rulings regarding digital signatures which will
have to be read to confirm this, but click-through is unlikely to meet the
standard required.


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Re: [OSM-talk] Feature Proposal - Voting - Craft

[edodd]

>
>
> Am 07.09.2010 18:01, schrieb M∡rtin Koppenhoefer:
>> craft=fashion should be fashion_designer to correpond to the
>> translation, but still this is not a craft. I would put it in office.
> I don't think so, but I'd be happy to discuss the pros and cons.
>
> I see a fashion_designer as somebody who is creating custom-made
> clothes. Because he's creating something, it's a craft.
>

This discussion is because 'craft' is not the best English word.
I think the old word was a 'manufactory' from which factory came.
So in English, fashion design / creation is a craft, but it isn't a
'craft' according to the definition put up in the wiki. Shop yes,
sweat-shop most likely

Craft isn't a good English word for the key.
If you hide all keys behind editing software it won't matter.


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Re: [OSM-talk] Feature Proposal - Voting - Craft

[M∡rtin Koppenhoefer]

2010/9/7  :

> This discussion is because 'craft' is not the best English word.


there is a WIkipedia-article that is translated in German into "Handwerk":
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trade_%28occupation%29

but you can already see by the content and length of the article that
it is probably a stub. Compare to this:
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Handwerk


> I think the old word was a 'manufactory' from which factory came.


Manufactories are an intermediate step from craft to
industrialisation. They became frequent in the 17th and 18th century
in pre-industrial times. Craft is something refering more to the
middleages (but in Germany has lasted till today) ;-)

cheers,
Martin

PS: Manufactory has an article in 21 languages, but not in English.
See the esperanto version for more info:
http://eo.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manufakturo

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Re: [OSM-talk] OSM into OOo document

[Donald Campbell II]

Thanks, that's exactly what I was looking for.  Only one thing left... since
I can't seem to get the static map services to do it.

I'm sure this is a fairly standard comp-sci type algorithm and solved years
and years ago.  It probably has a nice name for it and sample code.
What's the algorithm to determine a comfortable bounding box for an
arbitrary set of points?

Basically defining a bounds that holds all the points then expanding it a
certain percentage or so, accounting for the GPS coordinate system.

Unless I missed a really obvious way to do it with the static map services.

-Don.

On Tue, Sep 7, 2010 at 4:45 PM, andrzej zaborowski wrote:

> On 7 September 2010 21:42, Donald Campbell II 
> wrote:
> > 2) Find some sort of online API or website that will let me give it a set
> of
> > points by encoding them into a URL and then download an image.
> > I tried playing around with GPSvisualizer since waypoints can be put into
> > the URL but the result is a full webpage with layers and javascript, not
> a
> > simple image.  I tried the JPEG export options but that doesn't allow an
> OSM
> > background for whatever reason.
>
> This site lets you do some of these things:
> http://ojw.dev.openstreetmap.org/StaticMap/ , it's not perfect but it
> works for me.
>
> Any website based on C. Dauth's javascript classes also let you add
> markers visually or encoded in the URL, http://osm.cdauth.eu/map/ is
> an example.  But then you need to make screenshots.
>
> Cheers
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - Craft

[John F. Eldredge]

Locksmiths who repair shoes?  I hadn't heard of that combination before.  
Wouldn't that be tagged separately as a locksmith and a shoe repair shop, 
instead of simply tagging it as a locksmith?

---Original Email---
Subject :Re: [OSM-talk] [Tagging]  Feature Proposal - Voting - Craft
>From  :mailto:deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com
Date  :Tue Sep 07 14:36:04 America/Chicago 2010


On 8 September 2010 05:03, Peter Körner  wrote:
> I don't see a locksmith as a shop, even if it's usually called like that. In
> german it's called dienst (service) so it should maybe be office=locksmith
> but that doesn't match it either.

Most locksmith's here either have a stall type setup in shopping
centres or have a shop, they cut keys and repair shoes, while they may
practise a craft or trade, they usually operate out of a shop, unless
they only do a mobile service which probably can't be tagged in any
case.

> Looking at the tag definition, it would be a craft because it's creating
> custom-made things.

How many lock smiths actually make something? The ones here sell and
install alarm/security systems, cut keys etc... They don't make their
own locks...

>> optician (shop=optometrist), saddler
>>
>> (shop=saddlery) as that is how these are commonly referred to in
>> english...
>
> My arguments for keeping them are similar to those above for
> shop/craft=handicraft. There are always two parts involved: one is producing
> and one is selling. Sometimes one is more important and sometimes the other
> one. If both are similar important, there's no problem with adding both
> tags.

I think you'll find most stuff is made else where, possibly lowest
bidder in china and imported in and sold through a shop, very few of
those trades/crafts are actually practiced any more in the sense that
you seem to be thinking...

How many blacksmiths still make swords?

How is this any different than a bakery, most small ones also have a
shop front and you care more about the shop front than if they grind
their own wheat...

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-- 
John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com
"Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to 
think at all." -- Hypatia of Alexandria
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Re: [OSM-talk] [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - Craft

[John Smith]

On 8 September 2010 12:15, John F. Eldredge  wrote:
> Locksmiths who repair shoes?  I hadn't heard of that combination before.  
> Wouldn't that be tagged separately as a locksmith and a shoe repair shop, 
> instead of simply tagging it as a locksmith?

They also sell key chains and some do binoculars and rifle scopes...
*shrug* it's pretty common here...

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[OSM-talk] how to track a nokia E 71

[Kenneth Gonsalves]

hi,

this may sound a rather dumb question - and I am not sure if it is on
topic here, but I have a server that is rendering OSM tiles (Debian
lenny - with mod_tile). I have a nokia E 71. What I want to do is to be
able to track the movement of the E71 on my map on the server - I know
it is something to do with gpsd - any one can give me some pointers on
how to do this or where to look for resources on this?
-- 
regards
Kenneth Gonsalves


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Re: [OSM-talk] how to track a nokia E 71

[pavithran]

On 8 September 2010 10:32, Kenneth Gonsalves  wrote:
> What I want to do is to be
> able to track the movement of the E71 on my map on the server - I know
> it is something to do with gpsd - any one can give me some pointers on
> how to do this or where to look for resources on this?

You want to track it live right ?

Use tangogps which takes input from a gpsd process and tracks :)
http://www.tangogps.org/gps/cat/About

I couldn't make it( tangogps on Debian sid) download tiles from a
separate rendering server or for that matter not even from osm or
google maps . It just tries and tries and gives up .

Anyways on your distribution and hardware it  mostly might be working .

Regards,
Pavithran

-- 
pavithran sakamuri
http://look-pavi.blogspot.com

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