[Talk-hr] OpenStreetMap nista ne valja
http://www.41latitude.com/post/1310985699/openstreetmap-critique Jako zanimljiv članak, i s pogleda novog osm člana sasvim mi se čini opravdana kritika. Naravno ovo nije članak koji je pljuvacina vec konkretno ukazuje podrucja koja treba popraviti, te se niti u jednom trenutku ne omalovazavaju OSM vrijednih volonteri koji sudjeluju na projektu. Uvijek sam za konstruktivne kritike, samo tako projekt moze napredovati. -- pratite me na twitteru - www.twitter.com/valentt blog: http://kernelreloaded.blog385.com linux, anime, spirituality, windsurf, wireless, ronjenje, pametne kuće registered as user #367004 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org. ICQ: 2125241, Skype: valent.turkovic, MSN: valent.turko...@hotmail.com ___ Talk-hr mailing list Talk-hr@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-hr
[Talk-hr] njemci i ceste ;)
zanimljiv komentar sa strane mailing liste ;) So if, say, you think you need eight levels of importance within your highway network, yet OSM only has seven (motorway, trunk, primary, secondary, tertiary, unclassified, residential), screw it. Invent another one. Quaternary or minor or something. The Germans have done that (motorroad=yes) and no-one has died as a result. -- pratite me na twitteru - www.twitter.com/valentt blog: http://kernelreloaded.blog385.com linux, anime, spirituality, windsurf, wireless, ronjenje, pametne kuće registered as user #367004 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org. ICQ: 2125241, Skype: valent.turkovic, MSN: valent.turko...@hotmail.com ___ Talk-hr mailing list Talk-hr@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-hr
[Talk-hr] taginfo
http://taginfo.openstreetmap.de/ Vrlo zgodan alatic za vidjeti koji se tagovi koriste. Featuri iz tagwatcha, tagstata i OSMdoca. I jos se ktome izgleda aktivno razvija i lik trazi dodatne prijedloge. Uvod na http://blog.jochentopf.com/2010-10-05-introducing-taginfo.html -- Opinions above are GNU-copylefted. ___ Talk-hr mailing list Talk-hr@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-hr
[Talk-hr] jednom je slucajnost, dvaput je podudarnost, a triput je vec zavjera
srecom jos nismo do stupnja zavjere dosli :) nesto se dogadja na horizontu? Cloudmade se sumnjivo prazni od OSMa 5.10.2010 http://opengeodata.org/osm-founder-steve-coast-leaves-cloudmade 8.10.2010 http://opengeodata.org/last-community-ambassador-resigns-from-cloudm -- Opinions above are GNU-copylefted. ___ Talk-hr mailing list Talk-hr@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-hr
Re: [Talk-hr] ima li jos i-gotU GPS trackera?
On Wed, Oct 13, 2010 at 07:57:00PM +, Goran wrote: Valent Turkovic valent.turko...@... writes: Ima li jos negdje za nabaviti i-gotU GPS trackera kod nas? Mislim da neces pronaci jeftinije nego na eBay-u... barem ja nisam uspio. Tj, i-gotU GT-120 cca 325 kn. Evo prodam ja svoj GT-200 za 300kn ako netko hoce. Kad smo vec kod toga, prodajem i Freedom 2000 GPS bluetooth transmitter za 200kn (dakle samo salje GPS podatke nekome drugome bluetoothom, nema varijantu kao GT-200 da biljezi u memoriju. Ali je zato malen na privjesku za kljuceve, kao elektronicki kljuc za neki auto recimo) -- Opinions above are GNU-copylefted. ___ Talk-hr mailing list Talk-hr@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-hr
Re: [Talk-hr] OSM aktivnost po gradovima
On 4.10.2010 14:24, Valent Turkovic wrote: http://sautter.com/map/? zoom=8lat=45.11618lon=16.33667layers=00B000TFFF Evo što nam fali: ... Badljevina - Garešnica Ovo je dobar primjer zašto ne kopirati sa Google Maps i drugih karata. Treba koristiti te karte samo za kontrolu, ali ako su drugačije onda razmisliti a ne kopirati podatke. Naime, Google Maps ima krivo ucrtanu D26 od Dežanovca do Daruvara. Kao što piše u NN cesta ide do Daruvara (D5) a ne kako su oni ucrtali do Badljevine (D5) koja pak ide do Daruavar ! Cesta Dežanovac-Badljevina (Google označio kao D26) je jako loša, dok prava D26 cesta Dežanovac-Ivanovo Polje-Gornji Daruvar-Daruvar je jedna od boljih državnih cesata. A cesta Dežanovac(D26)-Trojeglava-Badljevina(D5) je zapravo ŽC3169 ! Tihomir ___ Talk-hr mailing list Talk-hr@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-hr
Re: [talk-ph] editing admin boundaries of Marikina
The tags on the relations are okay, but there are some stray/unused relations lying around in the area. Other than those issues (and the Tanong-Dela Pena boundaries), I can proudly say that the boundary relations for the Marikina barangays are complete. Tony Montana: Me, I want what's coming to me. Manny Ribera: Oh, well what's coming to you? Tony Montana: The world, chico, and everything in it. - Location1: 14.069979 N, 121.32575 E Location2: 14.1598162 N, 121.2425899 E Blog: http://ianlopez1115.wordpress.com/ --- On Fri, 10/15/10, maning sambale emmanuel.samb...@gmail.com wrote: From: maning sambale emmanuel.samb...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [talk-ph] editing admin boundaries of Marikina To: osm-ph talk-ph@openstreetmap.org Date: Friday, October 15, 2010, 4:16 PM I finally updated the barangay boundaries of Markina to cover all the other barangay. To all boundary relation experts, please have a look. I'm not very sure if I properly tagged the relations. The Tanong and De la Pena bnds have some conflicts. I will verify the actual boundaries with the LGU. -- cheers, maning -- Freedom is still the most radical idea of all -N.Branden wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ -- ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
Re: [OSM-talk-be] busroutes
Hier is mijn poging met lijn 4 in Leuven: Overkoepelende relatie: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/1225296 1225834 Bevat enkel relaties van het volgende type: Van Haasrode naar Herent: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/1225296 1225633 Van Herent naar Haasrode: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/119762http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/1225296 Deze kunnen zowel ways als child relations bevatten: Nu volgt een greep uit de relaties waar gebruik van wordt gemaakt: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/1190916 Stuk over Bondgenotenlaan: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/1189154 Het stuk Tiensevest dat over het Martelarenplein loopt waar de bus 2x overgaat, zit op deze manier in 2 verschillende child relations. Ik heb nu de weg ingegeven zoals hij hoort te rijden. Er zijn echter 2 omleidingen. Eén voor een 2 jaar durend vernieuwingsproject aan de Geldenaaksebaan en een andere voor de aanpassing van het Fochplein (zal wschl ook 2 jaar duren). Door de child relations aan te passen voor de Geldenaaksebaan, is dit voor 3 lijnen tegelijk verwezenlijkt. Door de child relations aan te passen voor het traject tussen Station en Fochplein is dit voor 29 lijnen tegelijk in orde. mvg, Jo ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] busroutes
Jo wrote: De reden waarom ik met child relations was beginnen te werken, was om de gemeenschappelijke stukken asfalt waar ze over rijden slechts 1 keer te moeten ingeven. Door de Bondgenotenlaan van Leuven razen de volgende lijnen: 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,284,285,310,315,316,317,333,334,335,337,351,352,358,370,3 71,372,373,374,380 en 395. Vind je het dan gek dat 'k dat stukje traject in 1 relatie zou willen gieten en hergebruiken. Op dit moment is er een omleiding (en dat komt vaker voor). Word er dan echt verwacht van een mapper dat hij 29x2 keer hetzelfde werk doet om al die omleidingen in te geven? En dat is nog maar een extreem voorbeeld, maar zo zijn er tientallen, rondom Leuven alleen al. Misschien hebben ze in grotere steden minder asfalt gemeenschappelijk, maar dat denk 'k eigenlijk niet. Alle 8x lijnen in Gent rijden van het Sint-Pietersstation tot aan het Zuid dezelfde route. Ik ken zeker het probleem. In Antwerpen staan sommige wegen ook vol busfiles vanwege de vele buslijnen die ze er laten passeren (waarom ze ook alles per se naar de Rooseveltplaats willen sturen ipv overstappunten aan de rand van de stad...). Maar wat je wil is eigenlijk een structuur op routerelaties dat eigenlijk los van onze discussie staat. Het is al sinds het invoeren van relaties dat we het wel leuk zouden vinden om een relatie te hebben die deel kan zijn van verschillende routerelaties waarbij die relatie automatisch als een deel van de route geldt. Dit is bijvoorbeeld ook nuttig bij twee fietsroutes die een deel van de route samenvallen. Zorg dat dit op een manier in OSM ondersteund wordt (en dat het vooral opgepikt wordt door renderers en al wie gebruik maakt van de relaties), en je kan er meteen ook gebruik van maken bij busroutes. Ik weet dat er een paar kleine pogingen gedaan zijn hiervoor, maar of het al ergens echt werkt? Wat mij betreft doet de vraag op dit moment of verschillende busroutesegmenten gedeeld kunnen worden er eigenlijk dus nog niet toe, omdat een busroutesegment meer is dan enkel een stuk route. Het zouden in dit geval deze busroutesegmenten zijn die op hun beurt relaties zouden kunnen bevatten die gemeenschappelijke stukken route volgen. Natuurlijk gaan we zo al op drie niveaus van relaties (of meer, die routerelaties zouden zelf ook op hun beurt routerelaties kunnen bevatten), en voor de modale mapper gaat dit ook best moeilijk zijn zonder de nodige tools om dat tot een goed einde te brengen... Ben ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] busroutes
Jo wrote: En dat is dus wat ik bedoelde met extra complexiteit voor de mapper. Uiteindelijk maakt het het eenvoudiger (1x werk, i.p.v. 68x bij onderhoud), maar je moet wel doorheen verschillende lagen en er het hoofd bijhouden wat in welke laag thuishoort. Als wij het zo mappen, dan zullen er renderers moeten worden gemaakt die het ook zo weergeven. Dat zullen we waarschijnlijk zelf moeten aanpakken. Het heeft geen zin om te wachten tot iemand het voor ons doet. Maar wat ik wel dus zei is dat dit voor het niveau onder busroutesegmentenrelaties is omdat deze bussegmenten volgens mij meer nodig hebben qua tags of member roles. En je moet bvb. vanuit een scheduler kunnen linken naar busroutesegmenten, en bushaltes horen wat mij betreft ook thuis in de busroutesegmenten en niet in de gemeenschappelijke routedelen. Dus daarmee dat ik het niet echt nodig vind om dit nu te bediscussiëren. Dit kan later ook op het niveau van alle routerelaties -- fiets-, wandel, bus, wegnummer-, spoorwegroutes, etc. (en dit zal sowieso internationaal moeten, buslijnen kunnen we nog op Belgisch niveau doen). Deze discussie kon nl. ook voor buslijnen die gewoon met één relatie gemapt worden. Het is allemaal al ingewikkeld genoeg zonder dit ook nog ineens mee te nemen (en ik vraag me af of hoeveel er op de mailinglijst dit nog allemaal aan het lezen zijn :-) ) Ben ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] busroutes
Ik lees nog ;-), maar ik denk dat je een punt hebt. Liefst een simpele en duidelijke oplossing. Kunnen we het eens worden over het mappen van een busrit (daar blijf ik wel van overtuigd dat we die in aparte relaties moeten steken en koppelen aan de juiste bus_stops). Op 15 oktober 2010 15:00 schreef Ben Laenen benlae...@gmail.com het volgende: Jo wrote: En dat is dus wat ik bedoelde met extra complexiteit voor de mapper. Uiteindelijk maakt het het eenvoudiger (1x werk, i.p.v. 68x bij onderhoud), maar je moet wel doorheen verschillende lagen en er het hoofd bijhouden wat in welke laag thuishoort. Als wij het zo mappen, dan zullen er renderers moeten worden gemaakt die het ook zo weergeven. Dat zullen we waarschijnlijk zelf moeten aanpakken. Het heeft geen zin om te wachten tot iemand het voor ons doet. Maar wat ik wel dus zei is dat dit voor het niveau onder busroutesegmentenrelaties is omdat deze bussegmenten volgens mij meer nodig hebben qua tags of member roles. En je moet bvb. vanuit een scheduler kunnen linken naar busroutesegmenten, en bushaltes horen wat mij betreft ook thuis in de busroutesegmenten en niet in de gemeenschappelijke routedelen. Dus daarmee dat ik het niet echt nodig vind om dit nu te bediscussiëren. Dit kan later ook op het niveau van alle routerelaties -- fiets-, wandel, bus, wegnummer-, spoorwegroutes, etc. (en dit zal sowieso internationaal moeten, buslijnen kunnen we nog op Belgisch niveau doen). Deze discussie kon nl. ook voor buslijnen die gewoon met één relatie gemapt worden. Het is allemaal al ingewikkeld genoeg zonder dit ook nog ineens mee te nemen (en ik vraag me af of hoeveel er op de mailinglijst dit nog allemaal aan het lezen zijn :-) ) Ben ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be -- Ivo De Broeck Valleilaan 13 3360 Korbeek-lo Tel (0)16 43 84 93 Gsm +32 486 17 61 13 ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] busroutes
Op 15 oktober 2010 15:26 schreef Jo winfi...@gmail.com het volgende: Ja, de bushaltes horen niet in de gemeenschappelijke routedelen. Wat ik zoveel mogelijk wil vermijden is duplicatie van informatie. Dat er in de 'name' de operator, het refnummer, from to en via herhaald wordt, zodat we zouden weten waarover het gaat, vind 'k niet meer dan normaal. Maar de segmenten zou 'k zoveel mogelijk gegroepeerd willen zien in logische groepen die herbruikt kunnen worden. Dat zouden we ook voor de bushaltes moeten kunnen gedaan krijgen. ja maar jij zal dat kunnen onderhouden totdat iemand anders ergens iets corrigeert. waarom in 'name' niet gewoon plaatsen wat op de bus staat? dus 8 - Bierbeek De Borre - via Bremt Dat er niemand meer meeleest of reageert is op zich niet zo erg, we hebben toch al overleg tussen 3 personen. ;-) Het probleem met een simpele oplossing (die uiteraard altijd de voorkeur moet krijgen), is dat het hele gegeven niet simpel is. De manier om dat in in computernetwerken op te lossen, is door met verschillende lagen te werken en dat is wat we hier aan het doen zijn. Jo 1 relatie voor 1 busrit lijkt me niet zo ingewikkeld. ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk] Response to A critique of OpenStreetMap
I think Justin is right. The OSM community lacks an inspiring vision towards the future of OSM. Instead of focusing on GEO-data and MAP usability, the last 2 years to many of the key players of OSM have been focusing on only one topic : the license change. How can any potential user of OSM get a good impression of what is possible from the base map ? And indeed, mentioning Mapnik as a base layer is too much honour for the software creating it. Thank you Justin, for the effort you put in showing where we actually fail. Communicating with our potential users ! Lets learn our lessons, and create some kind of working group focusing on that. If we can get as many people motivated for this topic as there were for the license change, our showcase, the base map will improve quickly. Gert Gremmen - Openstreetmap.nl (alias: cetest) P Before printing, think about the environment. Van: talk-boun...@openstreetmap.org [mailto:talk-boun...@openstreetmap.org] Namens Jonas Krückel Verzonden: Thursday, October 14, 2010 5:18 PM Aan: Milo van der Linden CC: OSM Talk; 41latit...@gmail.com Onderwerp: Re: [OSM-talk] Response to A critique of OpenStreetMap FYI Justin posted a note to clarify his intention behind the article and a few other points: http://www.41latitude.com/post/1313261274/osm-response -Jonas Am 14.10.2010 um 14:07 schrieb Milo van der Linden: Dear 41latitude, I came accross your blog on critique of OpenStreetMap. http://www.41latitude.com/post/1310985699/openstreetmap-critique and read it with interest. Some points are true, others need better explaination and I think you misinterpreted some things. Basically your critique can be drilled down to 3 main components: [...] image001.gif___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Response to A critique of OpenStreetMap
Hi, ce-test, qualified testing bv - Gert Gremmen wrote: The OSM community lacks an inspiring vision towards the future of OSM. Instead of focusing on GEO-data and MAP usability, the last 2 years to many of the key players of OSM have been focusing on only one topic : the license change. The license change is directly related to our focusing on GEO-data, whereas MAP usability is what our users should be concerned about, not us. I think it is about the fourth time this has been stated in this thread. I mean, there's nothing wrong with having nice map but this is certainly not at the core of the project, and certainly nothing we should aim to have an inspiring vision for. We're providing the underlying data for others to bring their inspiring visions to life. Bye Frederik ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Response to A critique of OpenStreetMap
On Fri, 15 Oct 2010 10:52:47 +0200 Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: I mean, there's nothing wrong with having nice map but this is certainly not at the core of the project, and certainly nothing we should aim to have an inspiring vision for. We're providing the underlying data for others to bring their inspiring visions to life. That is your opinion For others, the nice map is important. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Response to A critique of OpenStreetMap
On Thu, 14 Oct 2010 14:07:56 +0200, Milo van der Linden wrote: Making the perfectly rendered map available to the world is *not* a mission goal for the OSMF. The OSMF is primarily responsible for maintaining the database and the services related to it. Well then OSMF should change their mission to include nice representation of data also, not to compete with commercial companies just to make defalut map not suck would be nice ;). -- pratite me na twitteru - www.twitter.com/valentt blog: http://kernelreloaded.blog385.com linux, anime, spirituality, windsurf, wireless, ronjenje, pametne kuće registered as user #367004 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org. ICQ: 2125241, Skype: valent.turkovic, MSN: valent.turko...@hotmail.com ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Response to A critique of OpenStreetMap
On Thu, 14 Oct 2010 10:58:20 -0400, Paul Houle wrote: It's better to say we know we could do it better and we'll do better in the future. +1 always for constructive criticism, and should be accepted by any project that wants to go forward. -- pratite me na twitteru - www.twitter.com/valentt blog: http://kernelreloaded.blog385.com linux, anime, spirituality, windsurf, wireless, ronjenje, pametne kuće registered as user #367004 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org. ICQ: 2125241, Skype: valent.turkovic, MSN: valent.turko...@hotmail.com ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Response to A critique of OpenStreetMap
On Thu, 14 Oct 2010 18:36:48 +, Ed Avis wrote: That's surely a lot of the reason why OSM looks strange from an American point of view, but he does have a couple of valid points - the map does look a bit 'washed out' at low zoom levels, with many similar shades of almost-grey (which may be tasteful for a printed map, but less good on a computer screen), and again at low zoom levels the country and city labels look very similar. This seams a simple problem to solve, right? Only some minor adjustement in mapnik colour scheme to get higher contrast ratio between different objects. Can I contribute somehow and get this done? -- pratite me na twitteru - www.twitter.com/valentt blog: http://kernelreloaded.blog385.com linux, anime, spirituality, windsurf, wireless, ronjenje, pametne kuće registered as user #367004 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org. ICQ: 2125241, Skype: valent.turkovic, MSN: valent.turko...@hotmail.com ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Response to A critique of OpenStreetMap
On Fri, 15 Oct 2010 11:27:06 +0200 Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: The cool thing about OSM is: They can go ahead and create the nice map! sometimes, you have no insight whatsoever. No, I cannot create the nice map. It doesn't belong in MY skill set. I may have a long string of qualifications, but none relate to computer stuff. There are others like me, whose skills are different, and we would like to see 'a nice map' hosted by OSM. Once again, I see people who have taken up a position of power within an organisation which is supposed to support OSM, start telling everyone else what OSM is and is not, without actually asking OSM contributors exactly what OSM is and is not. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Response to A critique of OpenStreetMap
On 15/10/2010 11:49, Valent Turkovic wrote: On Thu, 14 Oct 2010 14:07:56 +0200, Milo van der Linden wrote: Making the perfectly rendered map available to the world is *not* a mission goal for the OSMF. The OSMF is primarily responsible for maintaining the database and the services related to it. Well then OSMF should change their mission to include nice representation of data also, not to compete with commercial companies just to make defalut map not suck would be nice ;). +1 If our product is the data (and not the map) we should be making more progress towards higher data quality, which I consider will inevitably require a degree of control over tagging and less of the tagging free-for-all which we have today. We cannot have uncontrolled data and simple say it is the responsibility of the renderer to sort out all the different ways in which things are modelled. We cannot (IMHO) achieve any level of data quality without some clear and effective governance of the data model including tagging schemes. Quality is not the same as correctness or any other similar attribute of the data collection, but it's about having stated goals for these attributes and achieving them. If 50% correct is the stated goal, then we can be happy if we achieve 51% - and our quality would be perfect. Our (potential) users will know what to expect because our product is exactly what it says on the tin (in fact it's better). If we don't meet expectations then the only way is down. However you feel about the discussion about what our product is, the map presented on the home page is our calling-card and has the power to make a lasting impression on people. Colin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Response to A critique of OpenStreetMap
On Thu, 14 Oct 2010 20:39:07 +0200, Frederik Ramm wrote: But I have no problem with openstreetmap.org being British rather than some bland kind of international - we can do tiles on openstreetmap.de in a more German style, and tiles on openstreetmap.us in a more US style, and so on. Is there a way so that international groups get theri own (virtual) server but so that it is located together with other servers? I can imagine us.osm.org, uk.osm.org, hr.osm.org and so on... Ofcourse people would need to pay to get their server maintained and I see no problem there if prices would be reasonable. If lets say 20-30 osm volounteers can pay to keep the server running that would be the way to go. Then every country community could have it's rendering made as they need it. -- pratite me na twitteru - www.twitter.com/valentt blog: http://kernelreloaded.blog385.com linux, anime, spirituality, windsurf, wireless, ronjenje, pametne kuće registered as user #367004 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org. ICQ: 2125241, Skype: valent.turkovic, MSN: valent.turko...@hotmail.com ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Response to A critique of OpenStreetMap
On Fri, 15 Oct 2010 20:11:34 +1100, Elizabeth Dodd wrote: That is your opinion For others, the nice map is important. Agreed, and I hope we can vote so that people who are willing to make usable maps be in OSMF board not ones that dont. -- pratite me na twitteru - www.twitter.com/valentt blog: http://kernelreloaded.blog385.com linux, anime, spirituality, windsurf, wireless, ronjenje, pametne kuće registered as user #367004 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org. ICQ: 2125241, Skype: valent.turkovic, MSN: valent.turko...@hotmail.com ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Response to A critique of OpenStreetMap
On Fri, Oct 15, 2010 at 11:49 AM, Valent Turkovic valent.turko...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, 14 Oct 2010 14:07:56 +0200, Milo van der Linden wrote: Making the perfectly rendered map available to the world is *not* a mission goal for the OSMF. The OSMF is primarily responsible for maintaining the database and the services related to it. Well then OSMF should change their mission to include nice representation of data also, not to compete with commercial companies just to make defalut map not suck would be nice ;). Note that Justin did not refer to OSMF. Milo brought it up. I thought Justin was addressing the community (a loose association of thousands of volunteers). OSMF has a duty to entice or motivate people to improve the map. That will be easier when the map is pretty. So making a pretty map is a means to an end. I think however that the rendering is pretty enough and that there are a lot of other things that are more important. Perform a simple test: Take someone with a reasonable computer background and ask them to plan their next journey with OSM. Will they be able to locate the places on the map ? Routing ?? After completing the journey, will they be able to register on our site and make the corrections they identified ? How long does it all take ? People value their own time. The good news is that there are a lot of improvements in testing right now. -- pratite me na twitteru - www.twitter.com/valentt blog: http://kernelreloaded.blog385.com linux, anime, spirituality, windsurf, wireless, ronjenje, pametne kuće registered as user #367004 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org. ICQ: 2125241, Skype: valent.turkovic, MSN: valent.turko...@hotmail.com ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Response to A critique of OpenStreetMap
On Thu, 14 Oct 2010 20:41:30 -0400, Anthony wrote: Once OSM goes ODbL, I'd expect that Mapquest will stop licensing their tiles under a free license. They distribute it now for free? Why? -- pratite me na twitteru - www.twitter.com/valentt blog: http://kernelreloaded.blog385.com linux, anime, spirituality, windsurf, wireless, ronjenje, pametne kuće registered as user #367004 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org. ICQ: 2125241, Skype: valent.turkovic, MSN: valent.turko...@hotmail.com ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM book
On Fri, 2010-10-15 at 11:14 +0100, David Earl wrote: publishers for David Mackay's book Sustainable Energy without the hot air that should be required reading for this list - especially the second part of the title. -- regards Kenneth Gonsalves ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Response to A critique of OpenStreetMap
Elizabeth wrote: No, I cannot create the nice map. Perhaps it's because I'm in the UK and am used to the non-garish OS maps, but I sometimes look at the Mapnik rendering and think wow. Everyone's opinion on what is nice is going to differ. We might not even agree on something as simple as at certain zoom levels highway widths are a little too wide; I doubt we'd ever get agreement on colour schemes. Ed ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Response to A critique of OpenStreetMap
On Fri, Oct 15, 2010 at 1:35 PM, Ed Loach e...@loach.me.uk wrote: Elizabeth wrote: No, I cannot create the nice map. I do not want to be so blunt, but I do not know any other way: then stop complaining about the map. Or anything an OSM user can complain about at OSM, for that matter. This is an open data project, so I have been told. Like many open source projects that it relies upon, specifically the tools used to render and manipulate OSM data, the ecosystem upon which it relies is meritocracy. The people you have take issue with do have the power because they have the knowledge and skills to create these tools or refine them. If you do not like the current tool set, and you are not part of a significant plurality of users and developers who can enforce such a change, you have to learn to make your own. I am sorry, but that was, is, and always will be the way open source works, at least in my mind. I have my own opinions on OSM quality, but then again I am not yet a component OSM contributor, web developer, or system administrator. It is not my place to judge until I understand the tools well enough to critique them accurately on a technical level (nice is not really specific enough for me), and then modify them or make new ones in the event a significant number of people in the community disagree with me. The point of the community is to leverage your skills with the skills of others. That way, we have a high competency level in multiple dimensions. If you do not like one component and cannot fix it yourself, it is bizarre for me, personally, to insist others conform to your wishes. I have believed that open source and open data projects specifically let go of that thinking so that skilled, inspired people can focus on what they want without organizational problems where unknowledgeable people higher in a hierarchy get in their way. Hence OSM and many other groups try to keep the hierarchy very flat (some do, anyway). I do not mean to be rude about this, but it is obvious to me. I am not sure if needs to be spelled out. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Response to A critique of OpenStreetMap
Hi, Elizabeth Dodd wrote: No, I cannot create the nice map. It doesn't belong in MY skill set. Fair enough. If you don't have the skills or the computers or the money to create a nice map, then you have to talk someone else into creating a nice map for you. But I don't think this should be OSM. That would mean diverting resources from creating valuable geodata to creating pretty end products. I would rather see someone else take up that work, using OSM data to create nice maps of all kinds. I'm not saying it should not be done, but I don't see it as a task for the OSM project. Much as the opencyclemap or the various hiking maps are not organised or funded by the OSM project. Bye Frederik ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Response to A critique of OpenStreetMap
Kai, Kai Krueger wrote: Well, Navteq and Tele Atlas also don't have to attract many hundreds of thousands of volunteers to create their data, many of whom are likely not able to or willing to have to deal with tens of Gb of raw vector data to be able to benefit from the work they put in. Thus Navteq and Tele Atlas don't really have a direct interest in the public seeing them as particularly useful or relevant. This is rather different for OpenStreetMap. I agree that we need to have a map to demonstrate what one can do with OSM. But in my opinion, the one we currently have already surpasses, by a large margin, that which would be required to attract people to the project. And still people whine about our lack of vision! Now it is possible that OpenStreetMap can successfully outsource this process of turning its data into something useful to various other (commercial) projects not associated with OSM, I'd say that e.g. MapQuest very much associate themselves with OSM, wouldn't you? And it need not be commercial enterprises either. I think there's room for an open source cartography portal where people get together to create really slick maps (from OSM data, most likely), acquire funding and resources to publish, print, or otherwise distribute them, and so on. I don't think that OpenStreetMap should be aim to take this place. If this isn't achieved, then OSM might simply not be able to attract enough mappers to create the high quality data it aims for. They'd then rather go to something like waze or google map maker who give them something back. Oh great, if the viability of OSM depends on what products *we* make from the data, why make the data open in the first place? You're painting the picture of a pure consumer, one who is unwilling and unable to make use of the most valuable asset OSM has to offer, namely the source data, one who simply wants someone else to produce a nice map for them. I say: Let these people go to Waze or Google Map Maker if they don't need what OSM has to offer. Waze or GMM deliver products created by professionals as part of their paid job; the price you pay for that as a user is that you have to take what they give you. If this works for someone, then let them take the offer. OpenStreetMap does not employ paid cartographers and product designers, and in my opinion should not aim at doing so. That is why it is sometimes useful to listen to such well illustrated critiques as this one. They show how others, potential new mappers, view OSM, and highlight where OSM should either inspire to improve or at least aim to communicate better where else to get those needs satisfied. Yes, maybe it really is time for a big banner across openstreetmap.org: This is not a slick online map web site, and not meant to be one. Of cause, many of the points of this critique actually concerned the data and its inconsistency in tagging, rather than the tools or style-sheets, and so it would be equally important for mappers to realise that perhaps inventing yet another tagging schema, even if it might locally be better, might not be particularly helpful as it wont be supported my anything. One could also go in the other direction and drop the requirement that one and the same piece of software must be able to process OSM data world-wide... Bye Frederik ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Response to A critique of OpenStreetMap
Hi, Valent Turkovic wrote: Agreed, and I hope we can vote so that people who are willing to make usable maps be in OSMF board not ones that dont. Are you saying our current maps are unusable? Bye Frederik ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Response to A critique of OpenStreetMap
On Fri, 15 Oct 2010 14:13:10 +0300 Al Haraka alhar...@gmail.com wrote: I do not want to be so blunt, but I do not know any other way: then stop complaining about the map. Or anything an OSM user can complain about at OSM, for that matter. This is an open data project, so I have been told. that is where we differ - I contribute, and in no small manner, by ground survey and mapping. It is not an open *data* project, but an open /source/ project and there is a tension between those of the computer meritocracy and those of the mapping meritocracy. We cannot exist without each other. Very few fit into both camps, but the camps cannot exist without each other. Do not forget those who document, those who test websites and coding, for again, they are all important parts of the whole. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Response to A critique of OpenStreetMap
I thought the critique was useful for those of us who rarely look at low zooms, other than as a quick way to pan across a few hundred/thousand miles. Yes they are a bit bland; wouldn't hurt to do something about it (wouldn't spend much time on it, but worth a few tweaks). Text overlaps are something that Mapnik is supposed to be good at, so that can probably be fixed. Boundary rendering could certainly be better. It was also useful to highlight the miscategorisation of roads in the US. If a city centre is an orange blob that's because they've (we've) made too many roads secondary. It's the data that needs fixing, not the rendering. So make them all unclassified and let someone locally pick out the roads that really do have a secondary distribution function. Those turnpike labels should be loc_ref or some such. I think it's a useful learning point - look at the low zooms a bit more often. Write some trac tickets if you think there's a good solution to a rendering problem, but don't know how to do it. Richard ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Response to A critique of OpenStreetMap
Am 15.10.2010 12:06, schrieb Valent Turkovic: Can I contribute somehow and get this done? The OSM Style is at [1], patches to the dev list [2]. [1] http://svn.openstreetmap.org/applications/rendering/mapnik/ [2] http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Response to A critique of OpenStreetMap
Am 15.10.2010 12:11, schrieb Valent Turkovic: On Thu, 14 Oct 2010 20:41:30 -0400, Anthony wrote: Once OSM goes ODbL, I'd expect that Mapquest will stop licensing their tiles under a free license. They distribute it now for free? Why? They are forced to by the CC-BY-SA License. Peter ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Response to A critique of OpenStreetMap
Al hakara wrote: I have my own opinions on OSM quality, but then again I am not yet a component OSM contributor, web developer, or system administrator. It is not my place to judge until I understand the tools well enough to critique them accurately No please, critique is always needed, you may have skills the others donot. Your points may be very valueable, even if you cannot implement your ideas yourself. I really hate both the modesty, leading to no positive critiques on work others do (to the best of their skills), and the attitude of many developers to say : shut up, fixit yourselves. The OSM community consist of many type of people with a multitude of skills and talents. Please continue all to let us know your ideas, you may have a golden one. But at the other hand, do not get angry if you are not heard. The developers are volunteers too, they hev no obligation to follow up mine or your ideas, and not even to answer or comment them (though that would be nice). Gert Gremmen - Openstreetmap.nl (alias: cetest) Before printing, think about the environment. -Oorspronkelijk bericht- Van: talk-boun...@openstreetmap.org [mailto:talk-boun...@openstreetmap.org] Namens Al Haraka Verzonden: Friday, October 15, 2010 1:13 PM Aan: OpenStreetMap talk mailing list Onderwerp: Re: [OSM-talk] Response to A critique of OpenStreetMap On Fri, Oct 15, 2010 at 1:35 PM, Ed Loach e...@loach.me.uk wrote: Elizabeth wrote: No, I cannot create the nice map. I do not want to be so blunt, but I do not know any other way: then stop complaining about the map. Or anything an OSM user can complain about at OSM, for that matter. This is an open data project, so I have been told. Like many open source projects that it relies upon, specifically the tools used to render and manipulate OSM data, the ecosystem upon which it relies is meritocracy. The people you have take issue with do have the power because they have the knowledge and skills to create these tools or refine them. If you do not like the current tool set, and you are not part of a significant plurality of users and developers who can enforce such a change, you have to learn to make your own. I am sorry, but that was, is, and always will be the way open source works, at least in my mind. I have my own opinions on OSM quality, but then again I am not yet a component OSM contributor, web developer, or system administrator. It is not my place to judge until I understand the tools well enough to critique them accurately on a technical level (nice is not really specific enough for me), and then modify them or make new ones in the event a significant number of people in the community disagree with me. The point of the community is to leverage your skills with the skills of others. That way, we have a high competency level in multiple dimensions. If you do not like one component and cannot fix it yourself, it is bizarre for me, personally, to insist others conform to your wishes. I have believed that open source and open data projects specifically let go of that thinking so that skilled, inspired people can focus on what they want without organizational problems where unknowledgeable people higher in a hierarchy get in their way. Hence OSM and many other groups try to keep the hierarchy very flat (some do, anyway). I do not mean to be rude about this, but it is obvious to me. I am not sure if needs to be spelled out. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Response to A critique of OpenStreetMap
I agree that we need to have a map to demonstrate what one can do with OSM. But in my opinion, the one we currently have already surpasses, by a large margin, that which would be required to attract people to the project. And still people whine about our lack of vision! Nonsense Frederic, Justin makes a number of very valid points that make the impression on the average visitor, that show we are a unstructured community in some ways. And no-one is whining, we are trying to make a better OSM, and the mapnik map is in most of the cass the first impression the user gets. We have voluntarily choosen to use the MAP(NIK) as 80% of our frontpage. There are no statements about that are just in for data quality. That is the first (and too often) the last impression a visitor gets. Gert Gremmen - Openstreetmap.nl (alias: cetest) Before printing, think about the environment. -Oorspronkelijk bericht- Van: talk-boun...@openstreetmap.org [mailto:talk-boun...@openstreetmap.org] Namens Frederik Ramm Verzonden: Friday, October 15, 2010 1:23 PM Aan: Kai Krueger CC: talk@openstreetmap.org Onderwerp: Re: [OSM-talk] Response to A critique of OpenStreetMap Kai, Kai Krueger wrote: Well, Navteq and Tele Atlas also don't have to attract many hundreds of thousands of volunteers to create their data, many of whom are likely not able to or willing to have to deal with tens of Gb of raw vector data to be able to benefit from the work they put in. Thus Navteq and Tele Atlas don't really have a direct interest in the public seeing them as particularly useful or relevant. This is rather different for OpenStreetMap. I agree that we need to have a map to demonstrate what one can do with OSM. But in my opinion, the one we currently have already surpasses, by a large margin, that which would be required to attract people to the project. And still people whine about our lack of vision! Now it is possible that OpenStreetMap can successfully outsource this process of turning its data into something useful to various other (commercial) projects not associated with OSM, I'd say that e.g. MapQuest very much associate themselves with OSM, wouldn't you? And it need not be commercial enterprises either. I think there's room for an open source cartography portal where people get together to create really slick maps (from OSM data, most likely), acquire funding and resources to publish, print, or otherwise distribute them, and so on. I don't think that OpenStreetMap should be aim to take this place. If this isn't achieved, then OSM might simply not be able to attract enough mappers to create the high quality data it aims for. They'd then rather go to something like waze or google map maker who give them something back. Oh great, if the viability of OSM depends on what products *we* make from the data, why make the data open in the first place? You're painting the picture of a pure consumer, one who is unwilling and unable to make use of the most valuable asset OSM has to offer, namely the source data, one who simply wants someone else to produce a nice map for them. I say: Let these people go to Waze or Google Map Maker if they don't need what OSM has to offer. Waze or GMM deliver products created by professionals as part of their paid job; the price you pay for that as a user is that you have to take what they give you. If this works for someone, then let them take the offer. OpenStreetMap does not employ paid cartographers and product designers, and in my opinion should not aim at doing so. That is why it is sometimes useful to listen to such well illustrated critiques as this one. They show how others, potential new mappers, view OSM, and highlight where OSM should either inspire to improve or at least aim to communicate better where else to get those needs satisfied. Yes, maybe it really is time for a big banner across openstreetmap.org: This is not a slick online map web site, and not meant to be one. Of cause, many of the points of this critique actually concerned the data and its inconsistency in tagging, rather than the tools or style-sheets, and so it would be equally important for mappers to realise that perhaps inventing yet another tagging schema, even if it might locally be better, might not be particularly helpful as it wont be supported my anything. One could also go in the other direction and drop the requirement that one and the same piece of software must be able to process OSM data world-wide... Bye Frederik ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Response to A critique of OpenStreetMap
Hi, Peter Körner wrote: Once OSM goes ODbL, I'd expect that Mapquest will stop licensing their tiles under a free license. They distribute it now for free? Why? They are forced to by the CC-BY-SA License. CC-BY-SA would still allow them to restrict access to the site, e.g. force users to log in or use an API key, which to my knowledge they don't. CC-BY-SA would still allow them to put up a site policy that says (for example) private use only or so, which to my knowledge they don't. Also, CC-BY-SA does not force them to openly publish their map styles, yet they do. I don't share Anthony's fear that they will close down everything after the license change; I don't see any signs pointing in that direction. Bye Frederik ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Response to A critique of OpenStreetMap
Am 15.10.2010 um 14:40 schrieb ce-test, qualified testing bv - Gert Gremmen: I agree that we need to have a map to demonstrate what one can do with OSM. But in my opinion, the one we currently have already surpasses, by a large margin, that which would be required to attract people to the project. And still people whine about our lack of vision! Nonsense Frederic, Justin makes a number of very valid points that make the impression on the average visitor, that show we are a unstructured community in some ways. And no-one is whining, we are trying to make a better OSM, and the mapnik map is in most of the cass the first impression the user gets. We have voluntarily choosen to use the MAP(NIK) as 80% of our frontpage. There are no statements about that are just in for data quality. That is the first (and too often) the last impression a visitor gets. I'm not sure how much we have chosen to have a big map on the front page. It has been this way for years and hasn't change while the project itself has changed and involved in a lot of ways. Why don't we display more info about our project on the front page but instead let the user more or less guess what we are about (by showing them a map and a search box that looks a little bit like yet another Google Maps clone and a small text description + a few links.) Why don't we show them different map styles to choose from. We can force them to choose a map style and they will learn that OSM has more than one map (and maybe they also understand that OSM data can be used to produce different maps, but it's a start anyway). Or do you really think that this little plus over there is discovered by anyone visiting osm.org for the first time? Why don't we show them upfront that we already have thousands of contributors mapping right now (think of something like those maps showing edits live) and make information about how this mapping is done available with just one click? Why don't we show them that OSM contributors meet up in local groups to have fun? Why don't we show them the different ways OSM data can be used - OSM data on mobile devices like smartphones and outdoor GPS devices, routing based on OSM, mashups with OSM basemaps... Why shouldn't we educate the visitors and make them learn what OSM truly is. As long as we can agree, that OSM is more than a small text description on the side and a big map, we can do a much better job showing the diversity and richness of OSM and giving the visitors reasons why they should want to contribute to this awesome project. And of course, I know that this needs someone to write the code for it and write the text and pick some images. But I think that making osm.org look even more similar to Google Maps and the like is the wrong way [1]. Also, please don't tell me that we can't put all this information on the front page, we can. Web pages can be longer than 600px because there is scrolling. Web pages can contain elements that move like a slideshow. They can contain small videos and images. We might even have all this information available in our wiki already, but why shouldn't we display it upfront on osm.org? -Jonas [1] We can still do this and make it available as maps.osm.org for example and put a pretty big link on osm.org But it shouldn't be the main element on osm.org ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Response to A critique of OpenStreetMap
+1 Jonas, can you put some of your ideas on a wiki page ? Gert Gremmen - Openstreetmap.nl (alias: cetest) Before printing, think about the environment. -Oorspronkelijk bericht- Van: Jonas Krückel [mailto:o...@jonas-krueckel.de] Verzonden: Friday, October 15, 2010 3:17 PM Aan: ce-test, qualified testing bv - Gert Gremmen CC: OSM Talk Onderwerp: Re: [OSM-talk] Response to A critique of OpenStreetMap Am 15.10.2010 um 14:40 schrieb ce-test, qualified testing bv - Gert Gremmen: I agree that we need to have a map to demonstrate what one can do with OSM. But in my opinion, the one we currently have already surpasses, by a large margin, that which would be required to attract people to the project. And still people whine about our lack of vision! Nonsense Frederic, Justin makes a number of very valid points that make the impression on the average visitor, that show we are a unstructured community in some ways. And no-one is whining, we are trying to make a better OSM, and the mapnik map is in most of the cass the first impression the user gets. We have voluntarily choosen to use the MAP(NIK) as 80% of our frontpage. There are no statements about that are just in for data quality. That is the first (and too often) the last impression a visitor gets. I'm not sure how much we have chosen to have a big map on the front page. It has been this way for years and hasn't change while the project itself has changed and involved in a lot of ways. Why don't we display more info about our project on the front page but instead let the user more or less guess what we are about (by showing them a map and a search box that looks a little bit like yet another Google Maps clone and a small text description + a few links.) Why don't we show them different map styles to choose from. We can force them to choose a map style and they will learn that OSM has more than one map (and maybe they also understand that OSM data can be used to produce different maps, but it's a start anyway). Or do you really think that this little plus over there is discovered by anyone visiting osm.org for the first time? Why don't we show them upfront that we already have thousands of contributors mapping right now (think of something like those maps showing edits live) and make information about how this mapping is done available with just one click? Why don't we show them that OSM contributors meet up in local groups to have fun? Why don't we show them the different ways OSM data can be used - OSM data on mobile devices like smartphones and outdoor GPS devices, routing based on OSM, mashups with OSM basemaps... Why shouldn't we educate the visitors and make them learn what OSM truly is. As long as we can agree, that OSM is more than a small text description on the side and a big map, we can do a much better job showing the diversity and richness of OSM and giving the visitors reasons why they should want to contribute to this awesome project. And of course, I know that this needs someone to write the code for it and write the text and pick some images. But I think that making osm.org look even more similar to Google Maps and the like is the wrong way [1]. Also, please don't tell me that we can't put all this information on the front page, we can. Web pages can be longer than 600px because there is scrolling. Web pages can contain elements that move like a slideshow. They can contain small videos and images. We might even have all this information available in our wiki already, but why shouldn't we display it upfront on osm.org? -Jonas [1] We can still do this and make it available as maps.osm.org for example and put a pretty big link on osm.org But it shouldn't be the main element on osm.org ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Response to A critique of OpenStreetMap
On 15/10/10 12:30, Frederik Ramm wrote: Hi, Elizabeth Dodd wrote: No, I cannot create the nice map. It doesn't belong in MY skill set. Fair enough. If you don't have the skills or the computers or the money to create a nice map, then you have to talk someone else into creating a nice map for you. But I don't think this should be OSM. That would mean diverting resources from creating valuable geodata to creating pretty end products. I would rather see someone else take up that work, using OSM data to create nice maps of all kinds. I'm not saying it should not be done, but I don't see it as a task for the OSM project. Much as the opencyclemap or the various hiking maps are not organised or funded by the OSM project. I agree that creating a pretty map is not at the core of what OSM is about, and as time goes on there are more and more options for viewing openstreetmap data. However we can all agree that we want to provide data, and we want to improve data, and many of us will do whatever we can to plug openstreetmap whenever we can. These people will head straight to the website and probably try and find there house; we want to capture these people so that OSM is there first choice for online mapping by providing the services that they expect. Hopefully over time some of these casual users will become editors over time. This is how we will continue to grow. I think it would be a mistake to ignore these users. Obviously other users of the data are providing a lot of this I see Cyclesteets, Cyclemap, Mapquest and Cloudmade all point back to OSM and the editable-ness of the map underneath. But do we really want to leave these types of users to external sites? Cheers Chris -- e: m...@chrisfleming.org w: www.chrisfleming.org ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Response to A critique of OpenStreetMap
Peter Körner wrote: Valent Turkovic wrote: On Thu, 14 Oct 2010 20:41:30 -0400, Anthony wrote: Once OSM goes ODbL, I'd expect that Mapquest will stop licensing their tiles under a free license. They distribute it now for free? Why? They are forced to by the CC-BY-SA License. ...is evidently not the reason why they distribute tiles under a open licence. http://github.com/MapQuest/MapQuest-Mapnik-Style is MIT-licensed. That is more permissive than required by CC-BY-SA (of course, CC-BY-SA doesn't actually require they distribute the stylesheet at all). MapQuest aren't distributing the tiles and stylesheet under an open licence because they have to; they're doing so because they want to. Still, never let the facts get in the way of a good conspiracy theory, etc. Richard -- View this message in context: http://gis.638310.n2.nabble.com/Response-to-A-critique-of-OpenStreetMap-tp5635020p5639067.html Sent from the General Discussion mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Response to A critique of OpenStreetMap
Why would you expect that? On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 8:41 PM, Anthony o...@inbox.org wrote: On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 12:52 PM, Mike N. nice...@att.net wrote: And along those lines, based on the constructive criticism, the default map shown on the main OSM page should be a pretty map, using tiles from Mapquest, while mappers that have a need to view more details can select one of the existing map styles. Once OSM goes ODbL, I'd expect that Mapquest will stop licensing their tiles under a free license. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Response to A critique of OpenStreetMap
Yeah, I might do that at some point and then post a link here. -Jonas Am 15.10.2010 um 15:35 schrieb ce-test, qualified testing bv - Gert Gremmen: +1 Jonas, can you put some of your ideas on a wiki page ? Gert Gremmen - Openstreetmap.nl (alias: cetest) Before printing, think about the environment. -Oorspronkelijk bericht- Van: Jonas Krückel [mailto:o...@jonas-krueckel.de] Verzonden: Friday, October 15, 2010 3:17 PM Aan: ce-test, qualified testing bv - Gert Gremmen CC: OSM Talk Onderwerp: Re: [OSM-talk] Response to A critique of OpenStreetMap Am 15.10.2010 um 14:40 schrieb ce-test, qualified testing bv - Gert Gremmen: I agree that we need to have a map to demonstrate what one can do with OSM. But in my opinion, the one we currently have already surpasses, by a large margin, that which would be required to attract people to the project. And still people whine about our lack of vision! Nonsense Frederic, Justin makes a number of very valid points that make the impression on the average visitor, that show we are a unstructured community in some ways. And no-one is whining, we are trying to make a better OSM, and the mapnik map is in most of the cass the first impression the user gets. We have voluntarily choosen to use the MAP(NIK) as 80% of our frontpage. There are no statements about that are just in for data quality. That is the first (and too often) the last impression a visitor gets. I'm not sure how much we have chosen to have a big map on the front page. It has been this way for years and hasn't change while the project itself has changed and involved in a lot of ways. Why don't we display more info about our project on the front page but instead let the user more or less guess what we are about (by showing them a map and a search box that looks a little bit like yet another Google Maps clone and a small text description + a few links.) Why don't we show them different map styles to choose from. We can force them to choose a map style and they will learn that OSM has more than one map (and maybe they also understand that OSM data can be used to produce different maps, but it's a start anyway). Or do you really think that this little plus over there is discovered by anyone visiting osm.org for the first time? Why don't we show them upfront that we already have thousands of contributors mapping right now (think of something like those maps showing edits live) and make information about how this mapping is done available with just one click? Why don't we show them that OSM contributors meet up in local groups to have fun? Why don't we show them the different ways OSM data can be used - OSM data on mobile devices like smartphones and outdoor GPS devices, routing based on OSM, mashups with OSM basemaps... Why shouldn't we educate the visitors and make them learn what OSM truly is. As long as we can agree, that OSM is more than a small text description on the side and a big map, we can do a much better job showing the diversity and richness of OSM and giving the visitors reasons why they should want to contribute to this awesome project. And of course, I know that this needs someone to write the code for it and write the text and pick some images. But I think that making osm.org look even more similar to Google Maps and the like is the wrong way [1]. Also, please don't tell me that we can't put all this information on the front page, we can. Web pages can be longer than 600px because there is scrolling. Web pages can contain elements that move like a slideshow. They can contain small videos and images. We might even have all this information available in our wiki already, but why shouldn't we display it upfront on osm.org? -Jonas [1] We can still do this and make it available as maps.osm.org for example and put a pretty big link on osm.org But it shouldn't be the main element on osm.org ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Response to A critique of OpenStreetMap
On Oct 15, 2010, at 8:36 AM, Randy Meech wrote: Why would you expect that? Randy Anthony is just trolling. He's been kicked out of wikipedia, as noted multiple times. Ignore him. On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 8:41 PM, Anthony o...@inbox.org wrote: On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 12:52 PM, Mike N. nice...@att.net wrote: And along those lines, based on the constructive criticism, the default map shown on the main OSM page should be a pretty map, using tiles from Mapquest, while mappers that have a need to view more details can select one of the existing map styles. Once OSM goes ODbL, I'd expect that Mapquest will stop licensing their tiles under a free license. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk Steve stevecoast.com ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Response to A critique of OpenStreetMap
On Fri, 15 Oct 2010 10:22:56 -0600 SteveC st...@asklater.com wrote: Anthony is just trolling. He's been kicked out of wikipedia, as noted multiple times. Ignore him. That is untruthful. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Response to A critique of OpenStreetMap
On Oct 15, 2010, at 1:32 PM, Elizabeth Dodd wrote: On Fri, 15 Oct 2010 10:22:56 -0600 SteveC st...@asklater.com wrote: Anthony is just trolling. He's been kicked out of wikipedia, as noted multiple times. Ignore him. That is untruthful. Which bit? Steve stevecoast.com ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Response to A critique of OpenStreetMap
Elizabeth Dodd wrote: On Fri, 15 Oct 2010 10:22:56 -0600 SteveC st...@asklater.com wrote: Anthony is just trolling. He's been kicked out of wikipedia, as noted multiple times. Ignore him. That is untruthful. Don't bother; Steve is just trolling. -- View this message in context: http://gis.638310.n2.nabble.com/Response-to-A-critique-of-OpenStreetMap-tp5635020p5640747.html Sent from the General Discussion mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Response to A critique of OpenStreetMap
On Fri, Oct 15, 2010 at 9:32 PM, Elizabeth Dodd ed...@billiau.net wrote: On Fri, 15 Oct 2010 10:22:56 -0600 SteveC st...@asklater.com wrote: Anthony is just trolling. He's been kicked out of wikipedia, as noted multiple times. Ignore him. That is untruthful. I'm afraid that Steve is right to say Ignore him. He's almost always looking for an angle that will cause conflict, upset people and steer the debate off topic. Like bringing up the license change. Like suggesting that MapQuest is only here for short term gains. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Ongoing bulk uploads of GPS traces?
But really: is this worthwhile? Will my company benefit? Will OSM benefit? Hi Sam, it definitely sounds worthwhile to me, and your company and OSM will benefit. One thing you didn't mention: how many gpx tracks do you have so far? Or is this just for going forward? If you can increase the frequency of trackpoints, do so, but for that kind of road, I suspect even 30s frequency will be pretty useful. A point every 1km for those kind of highways is definitely of value. I'd also double check that there aren't privacy concerns - gpx traces contain time information - is your company happy releasing that? Would it compromise them? Do the drivers get a say? When it's all up, post on the talk-au list. I'd be happy to spend some time tracing out the gpx'es. Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Ongoing bulk uploads of GPS traces?
On Fri, Oct 15, 2010 at 9:51 PM, Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com wrote: But really: is this worthwhile? Will my company benefit? Will OSM benefit? I'd also double check that there aren't privacy concerns - gpx traces contain time information - is your company happy releasing that? Would it compromise them? Do the drivers get a say? Good point. If privacy or business practices are a concern, you might munge the timestamps a bit. IIRC, OSM requires timestamps and will ignore files without them. Also IIRC you can use gpsbabel to set the timestamps in your file to one second gaps beginning at unix epoch, so that would give your vehicles outrageous speeds during 1970. Also you can choose the privacy settings for your traces to prevent sharing the timestamps. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Visibility_of_GPS_traces ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Response to A critique of OpenStreetMap
On Fri, Oct 15, 2010 at 10:36 AM, Randy Meech randy.me...@gmail.com wrote: Why would you expect that? Because it would be in their best interest to do so. On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 8:41 PM, Anthony o...@inbox.org wrote: On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 12:52 PM, Mike N. nice...@att.net wrote: And along those lines, based on the constructive criticism, the default map shown on the main OSM page should be a pretty map, using tiles from Mapquest, while mappers that have a need to view more details can select one of the existing map styles. Once OSM goes ODbL, I'd expect that Mapquest will stop licensing their tiles under a free license. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Response to A critique of OpenStreetMap
On Fri, Oct 15, 2010 at 9:14 AM, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: CC-BY-SA would still allow them to restrict access to the site, e.g. force users to log in or use an API key, which to my knowledge they don't. Well, no, of course not. If they did that virtually no one would use them. And their tiles would still be free to copy. CC-BY-SA would still allow them to put up a site policy that says (for example) private use only or so, which to my knowledge they don't. I'm not sure what that means. They couldn't restrict the use of the tiles to private use only. CC-BY-SA forbids that. You may not offer or impose any terms on the Work that alter or restrict the terms of this License or the recipients' exercise of the rights granted hereunder. You may not sublicense the Work. Also, CC-BY-SA does not force them to openly publish their map styles, yet they do. Might as well if they're going to release the tiles under a free license. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Response to A critique of OpenStreetMap
On Fri, Oct 15, 2010 at 4:02 PM, SteveC st...@asklater.com wrote: On Oct 15, 2010, at 1:32 PM, Elizabeth Dodd wrote: On Fri, 15 Oct 2010 10:22:56 -0600 SteveC st...@asklater.com wrote: Anthony is just trolling. He's been kicked out of wikipedia, as noted multiple times. Ignore him. That is untruthful. Which bit? I'm not trolling. I'm pointing out a fact, which happens to be an argument against ODbL. The fact of the matter is that Mapquest is required to release its tiles under a free license due to CC-BY-SA, and would not be required to release its tiles under a free license were OSM under ODbL. If you want to argue that they would continue to release their tiles under a free license even after the switch to ODbL, and that it would in fact be in their best interest to continue to do so, I suppose you can make that argument. But then I wonder what the point is of not requiring it, if it's in the best interest of companies to do it anyway. Once again, as with many other aspects of the ODbL switch, there are two contradictory arguments being used, both in favor of the ODbL. On one hand it's being claimed that the weak copyleft of ODbL provides greater incentives for companies to use OSM, and on the other hand it's being claimed that companies aren't going to take advantage of that weak copyleft. I also haven't been kicked out of Wikipedia, though you have claimed it multiple times. Feel free to tell others to ignore me, but take your own advice, and stop telling lies about me. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Ongoing bulk uploads of GPS traces?
On 16/10/10 10:01 AM, Richard Weait wrote: I'd also double check that there aren't privacy concerns - gpx traces contain time information - is your company happy releasing that? Would it compromise them? Do the drivers get a say? Good point. If privacy or business practices are a concern, you might munge the timestamps a bit. IIRC, OSM requires timestamps and will ignore files without them. Also IIRC you can use gpsbabel to set the timestamps in your file to one second gaps beginning at unix epoch, so that would give your vehicles outrageous speeds during 1970. Also you can choose the privacy settings for your traces to prevent sharing the timestamps. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Visibility_of_GPS_traces Yeah, I'd thought about this. I've been playing with gpsbabel, and figuring out the whole workflow, including timestamp munging. I was going to upload as 'private' tracks; are there any drawbacks to doing so? We've got, it looks like, the last three months or so of tracks from about twenty vehicles, and I can break the data up into whatever chunks I want. I've been working with one track file per seven days, which seems to be about a 6-8MB gpx file. Would this be okay to upload? Is there any issue with it containing only one track (i.e. there are some connections between points that are hundreds of kilometers apart). As for the drivers: they know the vehicles movements are being logged, and they know that I'm working on making their maps better; there wouldn't be any problem with getting their permission, but I'm not sure it's necessary -- there's no way to link any part of the logging to any particular vehicle, or driver. Hmm... there will be a concentration of points near drivers' homes... but then again, also near every place they stop as well. Is this something to worry about? I should have an official sign-off on the uploading sometime this week. - Sam. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Coraine Land Cover - OSM tags
Hi, Does anyone have a list of all of the tags used for the Coraine Land Cover dataset? Thanks, Sam -- Twitter: @Acrosscanada Blogs: http://acrosscanadatrails.posterous.com/ http://Acrosscanadatrails.blogspot.com Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/sam.vekemans Skype: samvekemans IRC: irc://irc.oftc.net #osm-ca Canadian OSM channel (an open chat room) @Acrosscanadatrails ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [Talk-de] Lizenzwechsel: Liste der bisherigen Zu stimmungen veroeffentlicht
Am Donnerstag 14 Oktober 2010, 14:14:33 schrieb Frederik Ramm: ch habe das nein in der Spalte Zustimmung nun auf ?? geaendert, denn diese Leute haben ja nicht mit Nein gestimmt, sondern einfach gar nicht abgestimmt - da gab es einige Rueckfragen zu. Noch eine spitzfindige Anmerkung für die nächste Liste: Wenn du das ?? durch etwas ersetzt, was nicht exakt zwei Zeichen lang ist, dann kann man das auch beim Überfliegen der Liste noch halbwegs schnell separieren (sprich: sich einen Überblick über die Häufigkeit verschaffen). :) Also vielleicht ? oder --- oder sowas. Ich finde nur optisch sind ?? und ja zu ähnlich um es auf den ersten Blick differenzieren zu können. Gruß, Bernd -- Früher dachten wir ja auch: Ich denke, also bin ich. Heute wissen wir: Geht auch so. - Dieter Nuhr (dt. Comedian) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Lizenzwechsel: Liste der bisherigen Zustimmungen veroeffentlicht
Am 14.10.2010 22:52, schrieb Holger Blum: Am 14.10.2010 19:30, Frederik Ramm schrieb: *Gegen* den Willen eines Users koennen tatsaechlich nur trivial-Edits uebernommen werden. Ich habe es genau anders herum gemeint: User macht einige sinnvolle Edits in einem Gebiet und entfernt dabei gleich noch alle created_by. Das war vor gut einem Jahr, werden nun alle betroffenen Elemente auf die Version vor seiner Bearbeitung zurückgesetzt wenn er der neuen Lizenz nicht zustimmt? Keine angst, das kann man intelligenter Lösen, in dem man prüft, wer zuletzt welchen Tag bearbeitet hat. Wenn jemand, welcher der OdBL nicht zugestimmt hat, ein created_by entfernt, wird das endgültige Element den created_by halt wieder drin haben -- alle anderen Änderungen bleiben wie sie sind. Technisch lässt sich das lösen in dem man durch den full-experimental dump läuft und die Veränderung nachspielt, dabei aber edits von nicht-OdBLlern ignoriert. Lg, Peter ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] api-download bei semikon-getrennten-values
Am 11.10.2010 10:54, schrieb M∡rtin Koppenhoefer: Eine pauschale Möglichkeit wäre, vor dem Verarbeiten alle values zu parsen und aus amenity=bank;atm einen automatisch 2 duplicate nodes zu generieren, die jeweils bank und atm als value haben. Wird vermutlich allerdings ne Weile dauern, wenn man den Planet damit durchackern will. Das ließe sich jedoch recht gut in osm2pgsql einbauen. Da mein letzter Patch für osm2pgsql [1] allerdings genau null Beachtung gefunden hat, zögere ich etwas, mich da mal drum zu kümmern.. Lg [1] http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/dev/2010-September/020613.html ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] api-download bei semikon-getrennten-values
Hallo, Peter Körner wrote: Eine pauschale Möglichkeit wäre, vor dem Verarbeiten alle values zu parsen und aus amenity=bank;atm einen automatisch 2 duplicate nodes zu generieren, die jeweils bank und atm als value haben. Wird vermutlich allerdings ne Weile dauern, wenn man den Planet damit durchackern will. Das ließe sich jedoch recht gut in osm2pgsql einbauen. Aber nicht ganz trivial. Du muesstest ja Deinen Pseudo-Node in die planet_osm_points einfuegen, aber wenn Du im slim mode operierst und irgendwann kommt ein Update, bei dem der Original-Node von amenity=bank;atm auf nur amenity=bank geaendert wird, muesstest Du Deinen Pseudo-Node ausfindig machen und loeschen... Bye Frederik ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] api-download bei semikon-getrennten-values
Peter Körner wrote: Am 11.10.2010 10:54, schrieb M∡rtin Koppenhoefer: Eine pauschale Möglichkeit wäre, vor dem Verarbeiten alle values zu parsen und aus amenity=bank;atm einen automatisch 2 duplicate nodes zu generieren, die jeweils bank und atm als value haben. Wird vermutlich allerdings ne Weile dauern, wenn man den Planet damit durchackern will. Das ließe sich jedoch recht gut in osm2pgsql einbauen. Da mein letzter Patch für osm2pgsql [1] allerdings genau null Beachtung gefunden hat, zögere ich etwas, mich da mal drum zu kümmern.. Eine pauschale Lösung funktioniert auch nicht wirklich. - Es scheitert, wenn mehr als ein Value mit ; vorkommt, da dann nicht klar ist, ob und wie sich die verschiedenen Einzelteile aufeinander beziehen. - Es scheitert für schlichtweg sinnlose Kombinationen wie highway=track;residential. - Und es hat keinen sichtbaren Effekt, weil zwei Icons an derselben Stelle von Mapnik eh weggefiltert werden. Du bräuchtest also eine Steuerdatei mit den sinnvollen Einzelfällen und komplexe Regeln für den Umgang mit Mehrfach-Konkatenationen und noch eine Anpassung der Renderer für die Auflösung von gestapelten POIs. bye Nop -- View this message in context: http://gis.638310.n2.nabble.com/api-download-bei-semikon-getrennten-values-tp5620526p5638043.html Sent from the Germany mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Relation runterladen?
Hallo, Am 05.10.2010 19:16, schrieb Carsten Gerlach: Lässt sich das so erweitern, daß man als Quelle eine lokale osm-Datei (z.B. germany.osm) verwenden kann, aus der die Relation extrahiert wird? Ich habe eine neue Version zum Download bereitgestellt: http://mr-unseld.de/?q=de/node/170 Man kann jetzt eine lokale osm-Datei als Datenquelle nutzen. Allerdings ist der Zugriff sehr zeitintensiv, vor allem bei bz2-codierten Dateien. Der Zugriff erfolgt über das Modul osm.pm von Gary68. Hierzu muss die neueste Version dieses Moduls installiert sein. Der zweite Wunsch wäre, das als Ergebnis wieder eine osm-Datei entsteht. Auch das habe ich eingebaut, allerdings funktioniert es nur, wenn die Quelle eine lokale osm-Datei ist. Die wichtigste Beschränkung des Skripts betrifft Routen mit zwei Fahrtrichtungen (role=forward/backward, oneway). Diese Routen werden nur eingeschränkt unterstützt. Insbesondere wird nur der GPX-Track für eine der beiden Fahrtrichtung erzeugt, die Segmente für die andere Richtung werden als Schnipsel in den Track aufgenommen. Das ganze hat Beta-Status. Für Hinweise auf Fehler bin ich dankbar, ebenso für Änderungs- und Verbesserungsvorschläge. Grüße Rainer ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] api-download bei semikon-getrennten-values
Am 15. Oktober 2010 10:25 schrieb NopMap ekkeh...@gmx.de: Am 11.10.2010 10:54, schrieb M∡rtin Koppenhoefer: Eine pauschale Möglichkeit wäre, vor dem Verarbeiten alle values zu parsen und aus amenity=bank;atm einen automatisch 2 duplicate nodes zu generieren, die jeweils bank und atm als value haben. Eine pauschale Lösung funktioniert auch nicht wirklich. - Es scheitert, wenn mehr als ein Value mit ; vorkommt, da dann nicht klar ist, ob und wie sich die verschiedenen Einzelteile aufeinander beziehen. doch, diese Anmerkung kam schon und es ist so, dass alle Tags jeweils für alle Values gelten müssen, weil sonst der doppelte Wert mit Semikolon nicht gesetzt werden kann (ist sonst ein Fehler in den Daten). Praktisch wird das allerdings sehr oft vorkommen, sieht man schon an den unmöglichen Kombinationen wie maxspeed=10;30 - Es scheitert für schlichtweg sinnlose Kombinationen wie highway=track;residential. ja, aber auch das sind klar Fehler, die man auch ohne diese Umsetzung nicht auswerten kann - Und es hat keinen sichtbaren Effekt, weil zwei Icons an derselben Stelle von Mapnik eh weggefiltert werden. es ist sowohl bei der Suche interessant, weil man dann jeweils fündig wird, als auch beim Rendern dann demjenigen überlassen, der den Stylesheet macht (Priorisierung bzw. Icon-Position optimieren) Du bräuchtest also eine Steuerdatei mit den sinnvollen Einzelfällen und komplexe Regeln für den Umgang mit Mehrfach-Konkatenationen und noch eine Anpassung der Renderer für die Auflösung von gestapelten POIs. für eine einfache Berücksichtigung sind die Renderer (mapnik) bereits vorbereitet: ist nichts anderes als dicht beieinanderliegende POIs: wer die Regeln macht entscheidet, was ihm wichtiger ist (oder er bekommt es hin, die Positionierung automatisch zu verbessern durch kl. offsets). Gruß Martin ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Lizenzwechsel: Liste der bisherigen Zustimmungen veroeffentlicht
Am 14.10.2010 14:14, schrieb Frederik Ramm: Hallo, eine aktualisierte Liste. Ich habe das nein in der Spalte Zustimmung nun auf ?? geaendert, denn diese Leute haben ja nicht mit Nein gestimmt, sondern einfach gar nicht abgestimmt - da gab es einige Rueckfragen zu. Verstehe ich das dann richtig, dass also niemand in dieser Liste mit Nein abgestimmt hat? Liegt das daran, dass die Gegner die Abstimmung an sich nicht anerkennen oder heben die sich ihr nein so lange wie möglich auf oder hab ich was falsch verstanden? Grüße Christoph signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Lizenzwechsel: Liste der bisherigen Zustimmungen veroeffentlicht
Am 15.10.2010 13:05, schrieb Christoph Wagner: Verstehe ich das dann richtig, dass also niemand in dieser Liste mit Nein abgestimmt hat? Liegt das daran, dass die Gegner die Abstimmung an sich nicht anerkennen oder heben die sich ihr nein so lange wie möglich auf oder hab ich was falsch verstanden? Ich Depp - konnte man denn überhaupt mit nein abstimmen? Ist schon wieder ne Weile her, wo ich das gemacht hab mit der Zustimmung... Sorry für den unqualifizierten Kommentar. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] api-download bei semikon-getrennten-values
M∡rtin Koppenhoefer wrote: doch, diese Anmerkung kam schon und es ist so, dass alle Tags jeweils für alle Values gelten müssen, weil sonst der doppelte Wert mit Semikolon nicht gesetzt werden kann (ist sonst ein Fehler in den Daten). Praktisch wird das allerdings sehr oft vorkommen, sieht man schon an den unmöglichen Kombinationen wie maxspeed=10;30 Ein weiteres Argument dagegen. Heute sind diese Fehler offensichtlich. Wenn sie beim Import pauschal ausmultipliziert werden, entstehen mehrere sich überlagernde Objekte, die insgesamt sinnlos sind, das Renderergebnis ist Zufall aber jedes für sich sieht korrekt aus. Den Fehler findet man nur noch unter größten Schwierigkeiten. bye Nop -- View this message in context: http://gis.638310.n2.nabble.com/api-download-bei-semikon-getrennten-values-tp5620526p5638558.html Sent from the Germany mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Fahrrad-Access-Karte überarbeitet
Am 14.10.2010 01:44, schrieb Thomas Ineichen: Mir fällt gerade auf, dass weiß etwas suboptimal kommt ... Gelb vielleicht besser? Ansonsten hübsch ;-) Die weissen Striche ohne Access-Umrandung sind eigentlich ungewolltes Nebenprodukt, daher müssen sie gar nicht sichtbar sein.. ;-) Man kann sich streiten, ob tracks wirklich auch noch die zugehöreigen access-tags brauchen, aber geschotterte residential, service, unclassified, ... (und höhere abseits Europa), die für alle offen sind, brauchen nun wirklich keine ... Ginge noch Osmarender als weitere wählbare Hintergrundkarte? In den besseren Zoomstufen sind Feld-/Rad-/Gehwege darin nicht nur dünne Striche, sondern breit, so dass man evtl. den Basisweg besser erkennen könnte. Ist integriert. Danke! Gruß Mueck ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
[Talk-de] Sportvereine
Moin, Sportvereine werden sind in OSM sehr unvollständig und ziemlich unterschiedlich eingetragen, obwohl sie in vielen Dörfern oder Stadtteilen eine der wichtigsten Institutionen sind und häufig als Veranstaltungsorte erscheinen. Wie kann man Sportvereine einheitlich (und somit auswertbar) in OSM eintragen? 1. Vereine mit eigenen Sportanlagen z.B. Fußballverein mit Vereinsheim und zwei Spielfeldern - Gesamtgelände: leisure=sports_centre - Spielfelder: leisure=pitch - Vereinsheim: building=yes - Vereinsname als name=Blau-Weiss e.V. an das Gesamtgelände - Sportart als sport=soccer an jedes Spielfeld Mögliche Alternativen: - Vereinsname als operator=* an die Spielfelder - Vereinsname als name=* an das Gebäude - Vereinsname als name=* an das Eingangstor - Verein als site-Relation 2. Vereine mit eigenem Grundstück, aber Sportbetrieb auf öffentlichem Gelände z.B. Laufsportverein, Kajakverein, Luftsportverein angrenzend zum Flugplatz - Grundstück mit area=yes; name=Sprinter e.V.; sport=running - Vereinsheim: building=yes Mögliche Alternativen: - Tag für Vereinsname und Sport an das Gebäude - kein sport=*, da kein aktiver Sportbetrieb auf dem Gelände 3. Vereine als Untermieter in Gebäuden z.B. Schwimmverein im Keller der Schwimmhalle, Turnverein im Nebenraum der Schulsporthalle, Luftsportverein im Teilbereich einer Flugzeughalle - POI mit sport=swimming; name=Delfin e.V. 4. Sammelvereine mit mehreren Sparten z.B. Dorfverein mit Fußball-, Tennis-, Turn- und Kanuabteilung - Jede Sportanlage mit name=SV Neudorf e.V. und sport=* Mögliche Alternativen: - name=SV Neudorf e.V. - Tennisabteilung - name=SV Neudorf e.V. (Tennisabteilung) Grundsätzliche Fragen: - Vereinsname mit oder ohne e.V. - Bei zwei Sportarten auf einem Platz: sport=soccer;american_football oder sport=multi ? Was meint ihr? Viele Grüße Stephan ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Relation runterladen?
Naabend, Am Freitag 15 Oktober 2010 schrieb Rainer Kluge: Ich habe eine neue Version zum Download bereitgestellt: http://mr-unseld.de/?q=de/node/170 Super, vielen Dank. Das ganze hat Beta-Status. Für Hinweise auf Fehler bin ich dankbar, ebenso für Änderungs- und Verbesserungsvorschläge. Beim ersten Test mit der osm-Ausgabe habe ich festgestellt, daß JOSM die Datei anmeckert: Ein Zeilenumbruch in der ersten Zeile ist falsch und das osm- Objekt wird zweimal erstellt. $ diff test_falsch.osm test_richtig.osm 1,2c1,2 ?xml version=1.0 encoding=UTF-8?\nosm version='0.6' enerator='JOSM' osm --- ?xml version=1.0 encoding=UTF-8? osm version='0.6' generator='JOSM' Gute Nacht, nächste Woche teste ich weiter. :-) Gruß, Carsten ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
[Talk-de] All In One (AIO) haengt?
Hallo zusammen, auf der Downloadseite der AIO sind keine aktuellen Karten mehr vorhanden. Die Verzeichnisse haben alle das Datum vom 15.10.2010 04:00 Uhr. Bei der Europakarte gibt es ein Verzeichnis vom 13.10.2010, aber auch ohne Inhalt. Kann mal wer schauen, wo das ganze hängt?! Danke und Gruß Kai ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Sportvereine
Hallo. Am Freitag 15 Oktober 2010, 20:24:59 schrieb Stephan Wolff: Sportvereine werden sind in OSM sehr unvollständig und ziemlich unterschiedlich eingetragen, obwohl sie in vielen Dörfern oder Stadtteilen eine der wichtigsten Institutionen sind und häufig als Veranstaltungsorte erscheinen. Das gilt aber bei weitem nicht für alle Sportvereine. Grade in kleineren Gemeinden ist es doch typisch, dass ein Verein einfach ein Zusammenschluss von Menschen ist und keine eigenen Gebäude oder Einrichtungen hat. Sportanlagen und Treffpunkte sind dann Gemeindeeigentum und werden von Schulen und mehreren Vereinen genutzt. Dennoch sollten natürlich die Büro-Räume (Geschäftsstelle) soweit vorhanden in OSM erfasst werden. Grundsätzliche Fragen: - Vereinsname mit oder ohne e.V. IMHO auf jeden Fall mit e.V.. Bei OSM gilt, den ausführlichsten Namen zu erfassen, denn Kürzen kann ein Algorithmus. e.V. als Abkürzung würde ich dabei dennoch stehen lassen, da es (genau wie GmbH) eine offizielle Schreibweise der Rechtsform ist. - Bei zwei Sportarten auf einem Platz: sport=soccer;american_football oder sport=multi ? Ein explizites sport=* bitte nur da wo der Platz nahezu ausschließlich für eine oder zwei Sportarten benutzt wird. Sehr viele kleineren Sportanlagen sind Vereins- und damit Sportartübergreifend benutzt. Auf einem Rasenplatz kann man auch wunderbar Rugby spielen und Speere werfen. Gruß, Bernd -- Wenn ein Mann einer Frau höflich die Wagentür aufreißt, dann ist entweder der Wagen neu oder die Frau. - Uschi Glas (dt. Schauspielerin) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-it] OSM ad Italiacamp
Immagino poi che sarai già pronto anche ad intervenire sulla direttiva INSPIRE http://inspire.jrc.ec.europa.eu/ anche se con la liberazione dei dati non sembra essere la via definitiva (è solo suggerito di liberare i dati) Certo, ma impone delle regole su come alcuni dati debbano essere confezionati. Pertanto, sempre in una ottica di liberare bene i dati, direi che e' un qualcosa con cui prima o poi ci si scontra. Concordi? ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
[Talk-it] Roma Cycle Map
Forse avrete già notato come la Open Cycle Map si sia arricchita di cycling routes nella città di Roma. Manca poco a completare il mappaggio del Local Cycling Network capitolino. Per chi vuole contribuire a completare l'inserimento delle piste ciclabili ufficiali, vi elenco quelle mancanti: -_Ciclabile Casalpalocco_ (Da V.le Alessandro Magno a V.le Giorgia di Leontini) - *Ref. 13* -_Ciclabile Fratelli Wright_ (Via Fratelli Wright fino all'incrocio con Via della Stazione di Ciampino) - *Ref. 19* -_Ciclabile Polo Tecnologico_ (Via N.Cinelli + V.le del Tecnopolo) - *Ref. 20* -_Ciclabile Romanina_ (Su Via B.Petrocelli, da incrocio con Via Tuscolana a incrocio con Viale L.Schiavonetti) - *Ref. 9* -_Ciclabile Anagnina-Tor Vergata-Tor Bella Monaca_ - *Ref. 8*, composta da tre tronconi: _Anagnina_: dalla fermata metro Anagnina, Via Giudice, Via A.Moneta, Piazza F.Sabatini _Tor Vergata_: Da Via G.Carli (Davanti Banca d'Italia) a Viale di Torre Maura, fino all'incrocio con Via di Torre Spaccata _Tor Bella Monaca_: Inizia e finisce al parco di Largo F.Mengaroni, attraverso Via di Torre Angela vecchia, V.le Oxford, Via D.Cambellotti, Via di Tor Bella Monaca. (tratti in costruzione). Se vi trovate da quelle parti con il GPS, sapete cosa fare. ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
Re: [Talk-it] [ANN] osmstats 1.0
On Sun, 10 Oct 2010 18:45:52 +0200, David Paleino wrote: [..] L'idea è di fare l'analisi settimanale dell'italy.osm in maniera automatizzata. Non è ancora automatizzato, ma ci lavorerò appena possibile :) Col nuovo parsing sono apparsi pure i profili utente. Fatemi sapere se riscontrate problemi :) E ora, tocca sistemare i grafici :) -- . ''`. Debian developer | http://wiki.debian.org/DavidPaleino : :' : Linuxer #334216 --|-- http://www.hanskalabs.net/ `. `'` GPG: 1392B174 | http://deb.li/dapal `- 2BAB C625 4E66 E7B8 450A C3E1 E6AA 9017 1392 B174 ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
Re: [Talk-es] Pagina web Española
Bueno, yo acabo de hacer la primera prueba en Ubuntu, no se que os parecerá, pero aquí os dejo los enlaces a Megaupload: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=KCW55ZBX http://www.megaupload.com/?d=NFQ283U0 Os pido por favor que no os riáis :-), son pruebas, las dos muy parecidas, pero quiero saber vuestra opinión. Lógicamente esto es sólo instalarlo, faltaría configurarlo y esas cosas. Están grabados en ogg theora, los que no lo podáis ver, descargaros y visualizarlo con VLC. Opiniones por favor :-) El vie, 15-10-2010 a las 11:12 +0200, Jimena escribió: Yo creo que los vídeos deben hacerse con voz, es la forma más rápida de explicar y de comprender lo que se expone en el vídeo, al principio cuesta un poco pero al cuarto vídeo ya lo tienes dominado Además una voz un poco chunga siempre tiene su gracia! Me parece bien colgar los vídeos en cuantos más sitios mejor Yo decía lo de vimeo, porque por ejemplo nuestros vídeos de cursos están ahí y aparecerían al lado los de OSM, con lo que por lo menos todos nuestros alumnos (que la mayoría no tienen ni idea de lo que es OSM) los verían, creo que sería una buena puerta de entrada Luego además, una vez estén grabados con voz, se podrían subtitular en otros idiomas, como decís, creo que Youtube lo permite Si os parece planteo una maqueta de las diapositivas y las cuelgo (donde?) para ir rellenándolas entre todos, más o menos con el índice que está en la wiki y con indicaciones de dónde podrían ir los vídeos Saludos Jimena Martínez Tel. 91 642 53 61 www.sinfogeo.es Antes de imprimir este correo piense en el medio ambiente Este mensaje se dirige exclusivamente a su destinatario y puede contener información confidencial sometida a secreto profesional o cuya divulgación esté prohibida en virtud de la legislación vigente. Cualquier opinión en él contenida es exclusiva de su autor y no representa necesariamente la opinión de la empresa. Si ha recibido este mensaje por error, le rogamos nos lo comunique inmediatamente por esta misma vía y proceda a su destrucción. This message is intended exclusively for its addressee and may contain information that is CONFIDENTIAL and protected by professional privilege or whose spreading is prohibited by virtue of the in force legislation. Any opinion there in contained is solely that of the author and does not represent necessarily the opinion of the company. If this message has been received in error, please immediately notify us via e-mail and delete it. -Mensaje original- De: talk-es-boun...@openstreetmap.org [mailto:talk-es-boun...@openstreetmap.org] En nombre de Julian Lozano Brau Enviado el: jueves, 14 de octubre de 2010 23:43 Para: talk-es@openstreetmap.org Asunto: Re: [Talk-es] Pagina web Española Si hacemos los vídeos con calidad suficiente luego podemos añadir los textos y instrucciones en pantalla. En cuanto a la voz... la mía esta entre Joaquin Sabina y Espinete... por eso creo que no debe darte reparo en intentarlo... a malas te doblamos :) El 14/10/10 22:11, Alvaro Lara Cano escribió: Yo podria hacer la instalacion en ubuntu, asi como la configuración del plugin JOSM y ortofotos IDEE, pero..¿con voz? o con instrucciones en pantalla? ___ Talk-es mailing list Talk-es@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-es ___ Talk-es mailing list Talk-es@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-es ___ Talk-es mailing list Talk-es@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-es
Re: [Talk-es] Pagina web Española
A mi me parece que los vídeos están bien. Me quedaría con el primero, personalmente Creo que sería bueno evitar tanto movimiento en la pantalla, pero vamos, esto es una pijada Entonces del tema de JOSM, habría dos o tres vídeos por cada plataforma?: 1. descarga del programa 2. Instalación 3. Configuración Es así? Luego habría otros de cómo usar JOSM, pero estos ya serían igual para todas las plataformas, entiendo.. He subido el vídeo 1 a VIMEO para que veáis como queda [1]: Si finalmente se decide meter también en VIMEO, podemos hacer una álbum dentro de nuestra cuenta, no hay problema. Lo mismo para YOUTUBE. Lo digo porque así todos los que vean los otros vídeos de los cursos nuestros verán estos de OSM He añadido además una columna de TAGS en la wiki a meter por cada vídeo, para que la rellene el propio autor, que será lo mejor [1] http://vimeo.com/15870674 Saludos jimena -Mensaje original- De: talk-es-boun...@openstreetmap.org [mailto:talk-es-boun...@openstreetmap.org] En nombre de Alvaro Lara Cano Enviado el: viernes, 15 de octubre de 2010 14:01 Para: Discusión en Español de OpenStreetMap Asunto: Re: [Talk-es] Pagina web Española Gracias sanchi, ya me he puesto el apodo. Creo que debemos de dar especial importancia al primer vídeo, al introductorio, porque si éste consigue captar la atención de quién lo vea, conseguiremos más gente. Habria que tratar temas como: 'con estos datos va a poder navegar con GPS gratis, y de por vida'. no así dicho, pero intentar transmitirle que lo que estamos haciendo es muy importante para la sociedad y para él mismo. Sería interesante hacerlo con alguien grabado en vídeo en primera persona. Por otra parte yo me podría ocupar de editar los vídeos para intentar estandarizarlos todos, y no que cada uno parezca de una madre. Y los que intentéis hacer los screencast o videotutoriales como yo, hacedlo por partes: primero instalación, luego configuración...etc, luego al editar, ya se unen. Así es más fácil creo yo. Saludos. El vie, 15-10-2010 a las 13:24 +0200, sanchi escribió: Yo me apunto hacer la instalación en windows de JOSM configuración y esas cosas. A ver que sale que no me fió de mi voz. jejejej. Este finde mirare hacer ya algo. He actualizado en la wiki que esta haciendo la instalación de linux Alvaro y que yo hago el de windows. Alvaro te he puesto el nombre si quieres poner el apodo o de otra manera cámbialo. El 15 de octubre de 2010 12:19, Alvaro Lara Cano y...@alvarolara.com escribió: Bueno, yo acabo de hacer la primera prueba en Ubuntu, no se que os parecerá, pero aquí os dejo los enlaces a Megaupload: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=KCW55ZBX http://www.megaupload.com/?d=NFQ283U0 Os pido por favor que no os riáis :-), son pruebas, las dos muy parecidas, pero quiero saber vuestra opinión. Lógicamente esto es sólo instalarlo, faltaría configurarlo y esas cosas. Están grabados en ogg theora, los que no lo podáis ver, descargaros y visualizarlo con VLC. Opiniones por favor :-) El vie, 15-10-2010 a las 11:12 +0200, Jimena escribió: Yo creo que los vídeos deben hacerse con voz, es la forma más rápida de explicar y de comprender lo que se expone en el vídeo, al principio cuesta un poco pero al cuarto vídeo ya lo tienes dominado Además una voz un poco chunga siempre tiene su gracia! Me parece bien colgar los vídeos en cuantos más sitios mejor Yo decía lo de vimeo, porque por ejemplo nuestros vídeos de cursos están ahí y aparecerían al lado los de OSM, con lo que por lo menos todos nuestros alumnos (que la mayoría no tienen ni idea de lo que es OSM) los verían, creo que sería una buena puerta de entrada Luego además, una vez estén grabados con voz, se podrían subtitular en otros idiomas, como decís, creo que Youtube lo permite Si os parece planteo una maqueta de las diapositivas y las cuelgo (donde?) para ir rellenándolas entre todos, más o menos con el índice que está en la wiki y con indicaciones de dónde podrían ir los vídeos Saludos Jimena Martínez Tel. 91 642 53 61 www.sinfogeo.es Antes de imprimir este correo piense en el medio ambiente Este mensaje se dirige exclusivamente a su destinatario y puede contener información confidencial sometida a secreto profesional o cuya divulgación esté prohibida en virtud de la legislación vigente. Cualquier opinión en él contenida es exclusiva de su autor y no representa
Re: [Talk-es] Pagina web Española
Supongo que se podrán eliminar los vídeos en Vimeo ¿no? Comento ésto porque a mi el primer vídeo no me gusta porque salen dos errores en la grabación. (los dos en la parte superior del panel), son pedazos de ventana que se han quedado ahí. Y segundo porque una vez que se empieza a instalar el paquete, en el segundo vídeo aparece la instalación, y en el primero no. También voy a hacer una segunda parte con la instalación mediante el terminal. Una última pregunta: ¿la configuración que es? yo queria meter el WMSPLUGIN e introducir el usuario y la contraseña. Los de como usar JOSM, se pueden hacer independientemente de la plataforma: relaciones, multipoligono...etc. ¿alguien usa mac y quiere hacer el tutorial para esa paltaforma? El vie, 15-10-2010 a las 14:25 +0200, Jimena escribió: A mi me parece que los vídeos están bien. Me quedaría con el primero, personalmente Creo que sería bueno evitar tanto movimiento en la pantalla, pero vamos, esto es una pijada Entonces del tema de JOSM, habría dos o tres vídeos por cada plataforma?: 1. descarga del programa 2. Instalación 3. Configuración Es así? Luego habría otros de cómo usar JOSM, pero estos ya serían igual para todas las plataformas, entiendo.. He subido el vídeo 1 a VIMEO para que veáis como queda [1]: Si finalmente se decide meter también en VIMEO, podemos hacer una álbum dentro de nuestra cuenta, no hay problema. Lo mismo para YOUTUBE. Lo digo porque así todos los que vean los otros vídeos de los cursos nuestros verán estos de OSM He añadido además una columna de TAGS en la wiki a meter por cada vídeo, para que la rellene el propio autor, que será lo mejor [1] http://vimeo.com/15870674 Saludos jimena -Mensaje original- De: talk-es-boun...@openstreetmap.org [mailto:talk-es-boun...@openstreetmap.org] En nombre de Alvaro Lara Cano Enviado el: viernes, 15 de octubre de 2010 14:01 Para: Discusión en Español de OpenStreetMap Asunto: Re: [Talk-es] Pagina web Española Gracias sanchi, ya me he puesto el apodo. Creo que debemos de dar especial importancia al primer vídeo, al introductorio, porque si éste consigue captar la atención de quién lo vea, conseguiremos más gente. Habria que tratar temas como: 'con estos datos va a poder navegar con GPS gratis, y de por vida'. no así dicho, pero intentar transmitirle que lo que estamos haciendo es muy importante para la sociedad y para él mismo. Sería interesante hacerlo con alguien grabado en vídeo en primera persona. Por otra parte yo me podría ocupar de editar los vídeos para intentar estandarizarlos todos, y no que cada uno parezca de una madre. Y los que intentéis hacer los screencast o videotutoriales como yo, hacedlo por partes: primero instalación, luego configuración...etc, luego al editar, ya se unen. Así es más fácil creo yo. Saludos. El vie, 15-10-2010 a las 13:24 +0200, sanchi escribió: Yo me apunto hacer la instalación en windows de JOSM configuración y esas cosas. A ver que sale que no me fió de mi voz. jejejej. Este finde mirare hacer ya algo. He actualizado en la wiki que esta haciendo la instalación de linux Alvaro y que yo hago el de windows. Alvaro te he puesto el nombre si quieres poner el apodo o de otra manera cámbialo. El 15 de octubre de 2010 12:19, Alvaro Lara Cano y...@alvarolara.com escribió: Bueno, yo acabo de hacer la primera prueba en Ubuntu, no se que os parecerá, pero aquí os dejo los enlaces a Megaupload: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=KCW55ZBX http://www.megaupload.com/?d=NFQ283U0 Os pido por favor que no os riáis :-), son pruebas, las dos muy parecidas, pero quiero saber vuestra opinión. Lógicamente esto es sólo instalarlo, faltaría configurarlo y esas cosas. Están grabados en ogg theora, los que no lo podáis ver, descargaros y visualizarlo con VLC. Opiniones por favor :-) El vie, 15-10-2010 a las 11:12 +0200, Jimena escribió: Yo creo que los vídeos deben hacerse con voz, es la forma más rápida de explicar y de comprender lo que se expone en el vídeo, al principio cuesta un poco pero al cuarto vídeo ya lo tienes dominado Además una voz un poco chunga siempre tiene su gracia! Me parece bien colgar los vídeos en cuantos más sitios mejor Yo decía lo de vimeo, porque por ejemplo nuestros vídeos de cursos están ahí y aparecerían al lado los de OSM, con lo que por lo menos todos nuestros alumnos (que la mayoría no tienen ni idea de lo que es OSM) los verían, creo que sería una buena puerta de entrada Luego además, una vez estén grabados con voz, se podrían subtitular en otros
Re: [Talk-ee] kaardikonkurss
Tekitasin lühikese koondjuhendi http://code.google.com/p/maakaart-ee/wiki/KaardiKujundus Andresega mõtlesime välja, et tekitame igale kujundajale oma kasutaja serverisse, millega siis saab FTP abil enda XML-failide komplekti modida ja siis uuenenud kaardipilti vaadata. Äkki juba täna :) Jaak -Original Message- From: talk-ee-boun...@openstreetmap.org [mailto:talk-ee- boun...@openstreetmap.org] On Behalf Of Jaak Laineste Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2010 10:19 AM To: 'OpenStreetMap Estonia' Subject: Re: [Talk-ee] kaardikonkurss Kahjuks pole see (ehk mapniku töötav moditav installatsioon) veel päris valmis :( Andresega töötame selle kallal. -Original Message- From: talk-ee-boun...@openstreetmap.org [mailto:talk-ee- boun...@openstreetmap.org] On Behalf Of Joosep-Georg Järvemaa Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2010 5:53 PM To: OpenStreetMap Estonia Subject: Re: [Talk-ee] kaardikonkurss AMS pakub kaardiandmetega vahendi (veebiteenuse) Mapnik CSS või XML formaadis realiseeritud kujunduste testimiseks. Vajalik on CSS või XML kasutamise oskus. Samuti loome kirjaliku juhendi selle kasutamiseks. Kuidas sellele ligi võiks saada? Tahaks oma kujundusi testida :) Tervitustega, -- Joosep-Georg ___ Talk-ee mailing list Talk-ee@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ee ___ Talk-ee mailing list Talk-ee@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ee ___ Talk-ee mailing list Talk-ee@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ee
Re: [Talk-ee] Aadressandmed importida OSM-i?
Siin saaks ju loovamalt läheneda ja building=yes ümbruskonnas vaadata -- kui punkti läheduses või lausa ümber on maja siis mitte risustada seda kanti lisa punktiga vaid võrrelda ning lisada aaressandmeid? mv On Thu, 2010-10-14 at 11:07 +0300, Jaak Laineste wrote: -Ma nuputaks siis skripti välja mis ADS andmetabelitest (need on CSV failidena maaameti FTP-s saadaval) .osm faili genereerib Karlsruhe skeemis. See ei tohiks ka olla väga keerukas tegelikult, lihtsalt andmeid on palju. Sadu tuhandeid punkte. ___ Talk-ee mailing list Talk-ee@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ee
Re: [Talk-ee] Aadressandmed importida OSM-i?
Paraku on ADS katastripõhine. Katastriandmestik oleks vajalik, et kuidagi loovamalt läheneda, seda aga maa-amet vektorina ei väljasta. -- Mihkel Oviir sook...@yahoo.com From: Margus Väli margus.v...@gmail.com To: OpenStreetMap Estonia talk-ee@openstreetmap.org Sent: Fri, October 15, 2010 10:34:03 AM Subject: Re: [Talk-ee] Aadressandmed importida OSM-i? Siin saaks ju loovamalt läheneda ja building=yes ümbruskonnas vaadata -- kui punkti läheduses või lausa ümber on maja siis mitte risustada seda kanti lisa punktiga vaid võrrelda ning lisada aaressandmeid? mv On Thu, 2010-10-14 at 11:07 +0300, Jaak Laineste wrote: -Ma nuputaks siis skripti välja mis ADS andmetabelitest (need on CSV failidena maaameti FTP-s saadaval) .osm faili genereerib Karlsruhe skeemis. See ei tohiks ka olla väga keerukas tegelikult, lihtsalt andmeid on palju. Sadu tuhandeid punkte. ___ Talk-ee mailing list Talk-ee@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ee ___ Talk-ee mailing list Talk-ee@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ee
Re: [Talk-ee] kaardikonkurss
Ma saan siis aru, et tähtaeg lükkub pisut edasi? -- Joosep-Georg ___ Talk-ee mailing list Talk-ee@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ee
Re: [Talk-ee] Aadressandmed importida OSM-i?
Aadress on ju kah katastri p6hine ? Kui hakata sedasi building=yes teed minema v6ib juhtuda, et maja asemel saab aadressi hoopis laut v6i keller. kasu ___ Talk-ee mailing list Talk-ee@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ee
Re: [Talk-ee] kaardikonkurss
Ega sellest ei pääse jah. Kui kellelgi on midagi tänaseks esitada, siis saab kõvad plusspunktid. Vormistama aga alles hakkame. Üks kartograafiaproff (kes ülikoolis seda õpetab) lubas ka leida aega abistamiseks, aga mitte enne ülejärgmist nädalat. Siis teeks nii, et istuks koos maha ja vaataks üle mis tulemuseks on saada. Jaak -Original Message- From: talk-ee-boun...@openstreetmap.org [mailto:talk-ee- boun...@openstreetmap.org] On Behalf Of Joosep-Georg Järvemaa Sent: Friday, October 15, 2010 10:47 AM To: OpenStreetMap Estonia Subject: Re: [Talk-ee] kaardikonkurss Ma saan siis aru, et tähtaeg lükkub pisut edasi? -- Joosep-Georg ___ Talk-ee mailing list Talk-ee@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ee ___ Talk-ee mailing list Talk-ee@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ee
Re: [Talk-ee] kaardikonkurss
Mina siis täna veel ei esita, kuna viimistleks veel pisut. -- Joosep-Georg ___ Talk-ee mailing list Talk-ee@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ee
Re: [Talk-ee] Aadressandmed importida OSM-i?
Muudatuste pealevoogamine ja poolkäsitsi ohjamine on ju puhas utoopia. Pigem tuleks impordil sildistada aadressipunktid ära et hiljem oleks neist võimalik automaatselt üle sõita a-la Corine polügoonid. Kasvõi tõmmata nad kõik maha ja panna uuesti täiega peale? mv On Fri, 2010-10-15 at 11:10 +0300, Jaak Laineste wrote: Maksimum mida saame teha on lugeda ADS muudatusi aeg-ajalt (selleks on XTEE API neil) ja neid siis pool-käsitsi sisse viia. Lisandused peaks saama peaaegu automaatselt (aga vaja kontrollida kas keegi pole juba lisanud), muudatusi/kustutusi üldiselt mitte. ___ Talk-ee mailing list Talk-ee@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ee
Re: [Talk-ee] Aadressandmed importida OSM-i?
Iva on selles, et hoida tuletatud andmeid nn. read-only mirror põhimõttel. Praktiliselt võib sellise lähenemisega majade aadressandmete käsitsi sildistamise üleüldse lõpetada. mv On Fri, 2010-10-15 at 11:24 +0300, Margus Väli wrote: Muudatuste pealevoogamine ja poolkäsitsi ohjamine on ju puhas utoopia. Pigem tuleks impordil sildistada aadressipunktid ära et hiljem oleks neist võimalik automaatselt üle sõita a-la Corine polügoonid. Kasvõi tõmmata nad kõik maha ja panna uuesti täiega peale? mv On Fri, 2010-10-15 at 11:10 +0300, Jaak Laineste wrote: Maksimum mida saame teha on lugeda ADS muudatusi aeg-ajalt (selleks on XTEE API neil) ja neid siis pool-käsitsi sisse viia. Lisandused peaks saama peaaegu automaatselt (aga vaja kontrollida kas keegi pole juba lisanud), muudatusi/kustutusi üldiselt mitte. ___ Talk-ee mailing list Talk-ee@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ee
Re: [Talk-ee] Aadressandmed importida OSM-i?
OSM siseselt ei saa kuidagi kontrollida andmeid pärast nende sisestust. Kõik mis seal sees on, on juba community oma ja igaüks võib teha nendega mis tahab. See on üldine filosoofia ja poliitika ning üldine consensus tundub olevat et nii ka jääb. On arutatud, kas väliseid baasivõtmeid on mõtet selleks lisada, ja üldiselt on leitud et ei ole (kuigi sageli on need seal olemas, nt TIGER-is ja ka meie Corine-s). Lihtsaim põhjus on et, et keegi ei saa keelata neid teisel muutjal eemaldada, muuta jne, keerukam on modimisvajadused, ma olen ise ka ühest Corine alast tekitanud mitu, teisi kustutama pidanud jne. Talk ja imports-listides on seda korduvalt arutatud, ja leitud et välistel võtmetel pole mõtet ja mingeid automaatsünke ehitada nende abil ei saa. Kontrollitava (ja seega ka automaatselt uuendatava/süngitava) kihi saab seega tekitada väljaspool OSM-i keskbaasi, nii et see jääks maakaart.ee üheks (esimeseks mitmest) privaatkihiks. See on ka variant, aga peaks arvestama: a) privaatkihi eelised: - saab tagada 1:1 vastavuse ametliku ADS andmetega B) puudused: - globaalne aadressotsing ei teaks sellest midagi - globaalne OSM community, uuendajad ja andmete kasutajad ei teaks sellest midagi ega saaks seda kasutada - andmeid ei saaks ka meie community parandada, iga järgmine ADS uuendus loeks need vigaseks. Äkki sobiks selline kombineeritud variant: a) impordime (kahveldame) ADS-I sügis 2010 seisuga OSM-I punktidena. See hakkab elama OSM-is omaette elu. b) kui aega on, tekitame ka ADS ametliku kihi privaatkihina. Tegelikult ma pole kindel kas isegi on mõtet sellel, maaameti XGIS-i ja WMS-teenuseid meil mõtet dubleerida pole. c) Tekitame ADS muudatuste näitamise teenuse, et oma huvitava ala kohta saaks redigeerijad kontrollida, mis on alates impordihetkest ADS-is muudetud, et siis käsitsi muudatusi oleks lihtsam OSM-I viia (nt kui on kogu tänav juurde tulnud kusagil, terve tänava aadresse muudetud vms). Jaak -Original Message- From: talk-ee-boun...@openstreetmap.org [mailto:talk-ee- boun...@openstreetmap.org] On Behalf Of Margus Väli Sent: Friday, October 15, 2010 11:36 AM To: OpenStreetMap Estonia Subject: Re: [Talk-ee] Aadressandmed importida OSM-i? Iva on selles, et hoida tuletatud andmeid nn. read-only mirror põhimõttel. Praktiliselt võib sellise lähenemisega majade aadressandmete käsitsi sildistamise üleüldse lõpetada. mv On Fri, 2010-10-15 at 11:24 +0300, Margus Väli wrote: Muudatuste pealevoogamine ja poolkäsitsi ohjamine on ju puhas utoopia. Pigem tuleks impordil sildistada aadressipunktid ära et hiljem oleks neist võimalik automaatselt üle sõita a-la Corine polügoonid. Kasvõi tõmmata nad kõik maha ja panna uuesti täiega peale? mv On Fri, 2010-10-15 at 11:10 +0300, Jaak Laineste wrote: Maksimum mida saame teha on lugeda ADS muudatusi aeg-ajalt (selleks on XTEE API neil) ja neid siis pool-käsitsi sisse viia. Lisandused peaks saama peaaegu automaatselt (aga vaja kontrollida kas keegi pole juba lisanud), muudatusi/kustutusi üldiselt mitte. ___ Talk-ee mailing list Talk-ee@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ee ___ Talk-ee mailing list Talk-ee@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ee
Re: [Talk-ee] Aadressandmed importida OSM-i?
Siin tuleb igaühel mingeid surrogaatrekvisiite pidama hakata et fikseerida ära millal viimati on OSM andmed ADS omadele järele lohistatud, et saaks sisuliselt kahe ajahetke vahel ADS baasi muudatused teatud piirkonnas kätte kui see üldse võimalik on. Maaamet väljastab regulaarselt muudatusi mingite lappide kujul? mv On Fri, 2010-10-15 at 11:48 +0300, Jaak Laineste wrote: c) Tekitame ADS muudatuste näitamise teenuse, et oma huvitava ala kohta saaks redigeerijad kontrollida, mis on alates impordihetkest ADS-is muudetud, et siis käsitsi muudatusi oleks lihtsam OSM-I viia (nt kui on kogu tänav juurde tulnud kusagil, terve tänava aadresse muudetud vms). ___ Talk-ee mailing list Talk-ee@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ee
Re: [Talk-ee] Aadressandmed importida OSM-i?
muudatuste jaoks on adsil eraldi x-tee teenus. Jaagu ettepanek on pro. Ei ole mingit pointi üritada vägisi asju uuendada, kui osm on olemuselt geoandmete wiki. algne import ja edasi tegutseb kommuun. muudatuste näitamise teenus on iseenesest hea mõte, küsitav on, kas siis tulevikus hakkame näitama kõiki muudatusi alates impordist? pika peale mahukaks ei lähe? Eriti kui ads jälle mõne suurema hanke najal mingeid lausalisi uuendusi teeb? Teenus muidugi võiks ju ka sisaldada muudatuse täägimist tehtud muudatuseks. -- Mihkel Oviir sook...@yahoo.com From: Margus Väli margus.v...@gmail.com To: OpenStreetMap Estonia talk-ee@openstreetmap.org Sent: Fri, October 15, 2010 11:59:57 AM Subject: Re: [Talk-ee] Aadressandmed importida OSM-i? Siin tuleb igaühel mingeid surrogaatrekvisiite pidama hakata et fikseerida ära millal viimati on OSM andmed ADS omadele järele lohistatud, et saaks sisuliselt kahe ajahetke vahel ADS baasi muudatused teatud piirkonnas kätte kui see üldse võimalik on. Maaamet väljastab regulaarselt muudatusi mingite lappide kujul? mv On Fri, 2010-10-15 at 11:48 +0300, Jaak Laineste wrote: c) Tekitame ADS muudatuste näitamise teenuse, et oma huvitava ala kohta saaks redigeerijad kontrollida, mis on alates impordihetkest ADS-is muudetud, et siis käsitsi muudatusi oleks lihtsam OSM-I viia (nt kui on kogu tänav juurde tulnud kusagil, terve tänava aadresse muudetud vms). ___ Talk-ee mailing list Talk-ee@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ee ___ Talk-ee mailing list Talk-ee@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ee
Re: [Talk-ee] Aadressandmed importida OSM-i?
Vaatasin nüüd sinna andmetele sisse ka. Sisuliselt on seal võetud ports registreid: maaregister, ehitis/hooneregister, ja veel mõned; nopitud sealt välja objekte mis võiksid kuidagi aadressiks kõlvata, neile mingid koordinaadid leiutatud ja siis ühtekokku pandud. Selle tulemusena tüüpiline väikemaja saab vähemalt 2 aadressi samade koordinaatidega: üks hooneregistrist ja üks maaregistrist (kinnistust). Suur maja saab veel iga korteri kohta selle eraldi, ja kui hooneregistris juhtuvad mitteeluhooned olema, siis on kõik need ka eraldi aadressobjektidena olemas. See lähenemine sobib hästi nime järgi otsingusüsteemiks, aga mitte kaardile punktide näitamiseks. Ühesõnaga – polegi niisama lihtne. Hea on, et koordinaadid on neil samad, nii et nende kaudu “group by” tehes peaks saama neid koondada ühtpidi. Ja enamikku ADS asju me võime ignoreerida. Kui seda genesist vaadata, siis võivad tõesti olla muudatused massilised (tõmmatakse veel mingi register juurde) ja samas meile väheolulised (punkte lisavad vähe). Suht lootusetu nendega järge pidada. Kui keegi tahab ka neid uurida, siis importisin tabelid meie serverisse ära, nt phppgadmin-iga on päris mugav näppida. Kasutaja tuleb serverisse tekitada (unix ja postgres tasemel, Andres eelkõige teeks). Ridu tuleb seal 1-2 miljonit eri objektidel. Minu plaan oleks: 1. Tekitada suht lihtsad PHP skriptikesed, mis teevad baasist võimalikult hea SQL peale .osm faili nodedega addr:street addr:… tag-idega, kuidagi grupeerituna. Näiteks peaks saama teha linnade kaupa majad ja maakondade kaupa talud; kuigi aadressiobjekt kui selline sealt ei pruugi otseselt välja tulla. 2. Nende abil teha import ära. Esmalt meie testmasinasse (well, dev.osm.org on ka tegelikult olemas), kui seal midagi vastu ei karju, siis pärismasinasse 3. Suht lihtne on uuendada meie koopiat ADS-ist: postgres baas on tehtud sama struktuuriga, nii et 1. ftp, 2.unzip 3.psql copy käsud ja ongi olemas. Päris automaatselt ei saa, sest tundub et FTP-sse pannase andmeid üles suvalise failinimega suvalisel ajal (viimati 27.09 tundub). 4. Kui aeg-ajalt uuendada baasi, siis samade skriptide abil saame tegelikult ka up-to-date .osm failid, mida saab siis (võibolla) hiljem ka võrrelda hetkeseisuga. Näiteks aasta pärast. From: talk-ee-boun...@openstreetmap.org [mailto:talk-ee-boun...@openstreetmap.org] On Behalf Of Mihkel Oviir Sent: Friday, October 15, 2010 12:28 PM To: OpenStreetMap Estonia Subject: Re: [Talk-ee] Aadressandmed importida OSM-i? muudatuste jaoks on adsil eraldi x-tee teenus. Jaagu ettepanek on pro. Ei ole mingit pointi üritada vägisi asju uuendada, kui osm on olemuselt geoandmete wiki. algne import ja edasi tegutseb kommuun. muudatuste näitamise teenus on iseenesest hea mõte, küsitav on, kas siis tulevikus hakkame näitama kõiki muudatusi alates impordist? pika peale mahukaks ei lähe? Eriti kui ads jälle mõne suurema hanke najal mingeid lausalisi uuendusi teeb? Teenus muidugi võiks ju ka sisaldada muudatuse täägimist tehtud muudatuseks. -- Mihkel Oviir sook...@yahoo.com _ From: Margus Väli margus.v...@gmail.com To: OpenStreetMap Estonia talk-ee@openstreetmap.org Sent: Fri, October 15, 2010 11:59:57 AM Subject: Re: [Talk-ee] Aadressandmed importida OSM-i? Siin tuleb igaühel mingeid surrogaatrekvisiite pidama hakata et fikseerida ära millal viimati on OSM andmed ADS omadele järele lohistatud, et saaks sisuliselt kahe ajahetke vahel ADS baasi muudatused teatud piirkonnas kätte kui see üldse võimalik on. Maaamet väljastab regulaarselt muudatusi mingite lappide kujul? mv On Fri, 2010-10-15 at 11:48 +0300, Jaak Laineste wrote: c) Tekitame ADS muudatuste näitamise teenuse, et oma huvitava ala kohta saaks redigeerijad kontrollida, mis on alates impordihetkest ADS-is muudetud, et siis käsitsi muudatusi oleks lihtsam OSM-I viia (nt kui on kogu tänav juurde tulnud kusagil, terve tänava aadresse muudetud vms). ___ Talk-ee mailing list Talk-ee@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ee ___ Talk-ee mailing list Talk-ee@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ee
[Talk-at] Wien
Hi! Hab ich noch irgendein Klischee^WSujet vergessen auf http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/State_Of_The_Map_2011/Bid/DE:Wien#Informationen_.C3.BCber_die_Stadt grübel? Servus, Andreas ___ Talk-at mailing list Talk-at@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-at
[Talk-cz] Import DIBAVOD - dotaz na další post up v případě duplicit
Chtěl jsem se zeptat, jaký bude další postup v importu z DIBAVOD, zejména pokud se týká konfliktů s již dříve zmapovanými potoky. Příklad duplicitního zákresu viz Zubřina v Domažlicích. Bude někde vystaven seznam konfliktních úseků, nebo se bude muset projít celá mapa? ___ Talk-cz mailing list Talk-cz@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-cz
Re: [OSM-talk-fr] clé pour un resto
Francisco DOS SANTOS wrote: Exemple, tu te retrouves avec tes potes à un endroit X pour vous faire un resto (pourquoi un resto, bah c'est dans le titre du mail !) : - Les gars on se fait quoi comme resto chinois, italien ... ? - (après un long moment de réflexion...) chinois - Y a un chinois dans le coin ? - Attend je sors mon super téléphone dernier cri, OSM Inside ! Recherche (ça c'est une requête spatiale), Resto, cuisine chinoise ... Ca y est trouvé ! Et hop - le plugin annuaire de ton super téléphone dernier cri, OSM Inside cherche le nom du resto dans l'annuaire de ton choix qui se charge de maintenir à jour cette donnée un peu particulière et pas tout à fait géographique qui peut même inclure les critiques du dit resto. ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr
Re: [OSM-talk-fr] clé pour un resto
Selon Pierre-Alain Dorange pdora...@mac.com: Car ces histoires du numéros de téléphone et même d'heure d'ouverture seront un casse tête a modifier et a mettre à jour. Ca risque d'être obsolète assez rapidement. Je suis bien conscient de l'obsolescence des données, c'est pourquoi le but d'OSM est d'avoir une communauté importante et de proximité (qui mappe leur région). Le projet n'est viable et les données ne seront à jour que comme cela. Mais ne pas vouloir mapper des infos parce qu'elle sont susceptible d'évoluer c'est pour moi un constat d'échec. Un restaurant ça ne dépose pas le bilan ou change de numéro de téléphone tous les 4 matins. C'est comme une ville qui change son plan de circulation, ça arrive de temps en temps, il faut juste être là sur le terrain pour catcher les changements. Une solution a moyen terme, serait peut être plutot de proposer une petite appication simple en ligne qui permettent aux intéressés (les restos pour rester dans le titre) de renseigner et mettre à jour eux même leur données avec un simple formulaire (un peut comme google le propose). Tout à fait d'accord, ce genre d'appli à toute sa place dans OSM même à long terme. On peut citer cloudmade qui a une appli pour iPhone : POI Mapzen Editor (si je ne m'abuse) qui est orienté saisie POI, c'est un moyen de contribuer au projet pour ceux qui ne sont pas intéressé par l'aspect géométrie. Pour finir j'insiste sur le fait qu'OSM et tous les contributeurs sont libre, il n'y a aucune obligation de mapper quoi que ce soit, vous n'avez pas à rentrer les numéros de téléphone si vous n'avez pas envie ou si cela ne correspond pas à l'usage que vous faites d'OSM. Par contre je ne suis pas d'accord avec ceux qui disent que ce genre d'information n'a pas sa place dans OSM, c'est la richesse du contenu qui fait la valeur/qualité de la base de donnée d'OSM. ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr
Re: [OSM-talk-fr] clé pour un resto
Le 15/10/2010 14:50, f.dos.san...@free.fr a écrit : Pour finir j'insiste sur le fait qu'OSM et tous les contributeurs sont libre, il n'y a aucune obligation de mapper quoi que ce soit, vous n'avez pas à rentrer les numéros de téléphone si vous n'avez pas envie ou si cela ne correspond pas à l'usage que vous faites d'OSM. Tout à fait d'accord là-dessus. c'est la richesse du contenu qui fait la valeur/qualité de la base de donnée d'OSM. La richesse ne peut pas s'exprimer en valeur absolue. Il est nécessaire d'atteindre une homogénéité minimale des données : les utilisateurs sachant que toutes les autoroutes sont présentes peuvent bâtir des solutions dessus, etc. Quand les numéros de téléphone seront-ils entrés de manière homogène (et fiable) ? Je ne remets donc pas en cause le libre-arbitre des mappeurs, dont je suis. Simplement, j'aimerais qu'un peu de raison soit de la (mapping-)partie et que l'on se concentre d'abord sur les plus gros manques. La voirie en banlieue ou en campagne est un *gros* point faible et vouloir commencer à détailler en profondeur ailleurs est à la fois une perte de temps et d'énergie. Sur un plan purement (attention, gros mot) commercial, cette manière de procéder est en outre totalement inefficace : je pourrais appeler la pizzeria Vesuvio à Fouzy-les-Ridelles pour réserver mais je suis infoutu d'avoir un routage correct vers elle si je viens de Trifouilly-les-Oyes... Mes deux centimes. -- Jean-Francois Nifenecker, Bordeaux ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr
Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Rivières type=waterway : afflu ents et bras multiples
Le mer. 13 oct. 2010 à 16:40 +0200, sly (sylvain letuffe) a ecrit : Salut, Concernant les relations type=waterway J'ai un problème pour corriger les affluents sur un exemple précis connexion Ouvèze / Rhône, au nord d'Avignon : http://www.openstreetmap.org/?mlat=43.9902mlon=4.8526zoom=14layers=M Le Rhône est divisé en deux bras, séparés par l'Ile de la Barthelasse : île : Way id=4963006 110 nodes riverbank : Way id=4963003 130 (tronçon) Le problème est que le bras qui fait office de support du linéaire (waterway) n'est pas celui où se rattache l'Ouvèze : Way id=68297060 9 nodes Comment régler ce problème proprement ? -- ° /\Guillaume AllègreMembre de l'April /~~\/\ allegre.guilla...@free.fr Promouvoir et défendre le logiciel libre / /~~\tél. 04.76.63.26.99 http://www.april.org ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr
Re: [OSM-talk-fr] clé pour un resto
2010/10/15 f.dos.san...@free.fr Pour finir j'insiste sur le fait qu'OSM et tous les contributeurs sont libre, il n'y a aucune obligation de mapper quoi que ce soit, vous n'avez pas à rentrer les numéros de téléphone si vous n'avez pas envie ou si cela ne correspond pas à l'usage que vous faites d'OSM. Par contre je ne suis pas d'accord avec ceux qui disent que ce genre d'information n'a pas sa place dans OSM, c'est la richesse du contenu qui fait la valeur/qualité de la base de donnée d'OSM. Bref, avec ces arguments, je suis libre d'entrer ma liste de courses, l'âge du capitaine, le nombre de tuiles sur mon toit et même le numéro du bon de commande. Mais personne n'est obligé de faire comme moi... Pieren ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr
Re: [OSM-talk-fr] clé pour un resto
Hello, 2010/10/15 Pieren [via GIS] ml-node+5639142-413188166-176...@n2.nabble.com: 2010/10/15 [hidden email] Pour finir j'insiste sur le fait qu'OSM et tous les contributeurs sont libre, il n'y a aucune obligation de mapper quoi que ce soit, vous n'avez pas à rentrer les numéros de téléphone si vous n'avez pas envie ou si cela ne correspond pas à l'usage que vous faites d'OSM. Par contre je ne suis pas d'accord avec ceux qui disent que ce genre d'information n'a pas sa place dans OSM, c'est la richesse du contenu qui fait la valeur/qualité de la base de donnée d'OSM. Bref, avec ces arguments, je suis libre d'entrer ma liste de courses, l'âge du capitaine, le nombre de tuiles sur mon toit et même le numéro du bon de commande. Mais personne n'est obligé de faire comme moi... On parle tout de même d'un tag qui est accepter d'un grand nombre de personne, et qui est proposer comme tag de façon parfaitement correct. Je considère d'ailleurs que les géométries sont tout aussi difficile a maintenir que ce genre d'informations facile a saisir. Donc +1 pour Francisco ! CU Stéphane Pieren ___ Talk-fr mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr View message @ http://gis.638310.n2.nabble.com/cle-pour-un-resto-tp5617559p5639142.html To start a new topic under France, email ml-node+3070341-1821432512-176...@n2.nabble.com To unsubscribe from France, click here. -- Stéphane Brunner -- Un peu d'espace qui vous suis partout - https://www.getdropbox.com/referrals/NTk2OTU2Mjk -- -- View this message in context: http://gis.638310.n2.nabble.com/cle-pour-un-resto-tp5617559p5639168.html Sent from the France mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr
Re: [OSM-talk-fr] clé pour un resto
2010/10/15 Stéphane Brunner courr...@stephane-brunner.ch On parle tout de même d'un tag qui est accepter d'un grand nombre de personne, et qui est proposer comme tag de façon parfaitement correct. Après l'argument vous êtes pas obligés de faire pareil, il y a donc l'argument c'est documenté et il y en a déjà beaucoup qui le font. Donc, si je créé un tag post_it_sur_le_frigidaire et que brutalement, beaucoup de gens mettent leur liste de course dans OSM, c'est tout bon alors ? Pieren (qui attend le prochain argument avec impatience) ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr
Re: [OSM-talk-fr] clé pour un resto
C'est vraiment n'importe quoi tes réponse ... Tu t'ai lever du mauvais pied ce matin ? 2010/10/15 Pieren [via GIS] ml-node+5639323-1219485788-176...@n2.nabble.com: 2010/10/15 Stéphane Brunner [hidden email] On parle tout de même d'un tag qui est accepter d'un grand nombre de personne, et qui est proposer comme tag de façon parfaitement correct. Après l'argument vous êtes pas obligés de faire pareil, il y a donc l'argument c'est documenté et il y en a déjà beaucoup qui le font. Donc, si je créé un tag post_it_sur_le_frigidaire et que brutalement, beaucoup de gens mettent leur liste de course dans OSM, c'est tout bon alors ? Pieren (qui attend le prochain argument avec impatience) ___ Talk-fr mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr View message @ http://gis.638310.n2.nabble.com/cle-pour-un-resto-tp5617559p5639323.html To start a new topic under France, email ml-node+3070341-1821432512-176...@n2.nabble.com To unsubscribe from France, click here. -- Stéphane Brunner -- Un peu d'espace qui vous suis partout - https://www.getdropbox.com/referrals/NTk2OTU2Mjk -- -- View this message in context: http://gis.638310.n2.nabble.com/cle-pour-un-resto-tp5617559p5639409.html Sent from the France mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr
Re: [OSM-talk-fr] clé pour un resto
Selon Pieren pier...@gmail.com: 2010/10/15 f.dos.san...@free.fr Pour finir j'insiste sur le fait qu'OSM et tous les contributeurs sont libre, il n'y a aucune obligation de mapper quoi que ce soit, vous n'avez pas à rentrer les numéros de téléphone si vous n'avez pas envie ou si cela ne correspond pas à l'usage que vous faites d'OSM. Par contre je ne suis pas d'accord avec ceux qui disent que ce genre d'information n'a pas sa place dans OSM, c'est la richesse du contenu qui fait la valeur/qualité de la base de donnée d'OSM. Bref, avec ces arguments, je suis libre d'entrer ma liste de courses, l'âge du capitaine, le nombre de tuiles sur mon toit et même le numéro du bon de commande. Mais personne n'est obligé de faire comme moi... Pieren Il faut évidemment un consensus et un intérêt aux données. Ne pas oublier que toutes données dans OSM doit être vérifiable, un contributeur ne pourra pas vérifier ta liste de course ou le nombre de tuiles sur ton toit ... sans compter que ces infos n'ont aucun intérêt pour la communauté. Je suis désolé si je me suis mal exprimé, je vais essayer d'être plus clair. On connait tous le tag amenity=restaurant, on voit tous l'intérêt de voir un icône restaurant sur la carte. Si un mappeur ne veut pas enregistrer de restaurant parce qu'il n'en voit pas l'intérêt, on va pas l'accabler en disant qu'il mappe mal. C'est son choix et on doit le respecter, tout comme il doit respecter le choix de ceux qui mappent les restaurants. En ce qui concerne le numéro de téléphone c'est quand même une info importante pour un POI (comme le nom), même s'il n'y a pas de consensus sur le tag à utiliser (phone ou contact:phone) il y en a un sur l'intérêt de cette donnée dans la base (c'est toi même qui a donné les stats de taginfo). ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr
