Re: [OSM-talk] Nice problem to have

2012-03-16 Thread Kai Krueger 

Kai Krueger wrote
> 
> This imho shows that the publicity of Apple and Foursquare using OSM
> directly resulted in new mappers for OSM. Although it isn't the complete
> record, that was around the 13th of September 2009 (anyone know if there
> was a special occasion arount that time?), it is the second highest number
> yet. Furthermore, with the news so fresh, perhaps we will still beat the
> record.
> 
Well, to answer my own question if we can beat the record of most new
mappers in a week, it is a resounding yes. This week (beginning 8th of
March) saw nearly 3300 new mappers, clearly beating the old record!

Richard Fairhurst pointed out that the old record was set in the week
Monopoly City Streets launched (a large scale internet game using
OpenStreetMap data), so again due to a popular user of OpenStreetMap.

So the more large sites use OSM, the faster the mapping community grows and
therefore it is imho import for OSM and its community to care about its data
consumers as it benefits from them even if they don't "give back".

Kai

P.S. I have posted the daily statistics since the beginning of the year  at
http://pastebin.com/rHt9MT3f

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Re: [OSM-talk] OSM and Academia (was: Survey about Incentives to contribute to OSM)

2012-03-16 Thread Kate Chapman 
On Thu, Mar 15, 2012 at 2:13 AM, Frederik Ramm  wrote:
> Hi,
>
> On 03/14/2012 07:25 PM, Simone Cortesi wrote:
>>
>
>> in addition to this: I've been part of this community for a while (7
>> years) and never heard about this people pretending to be from the
>> university of Münster, Germany.
>
>
> This, sadly, is a general trend in the acamdemic community. Many of them
> seem to believe that it is unfitting to become too involved with the object
> of study; that you can either be a good community member or write study OSM
> but not both. This leads to a lot of papers being written by people who have
> never set foot in a forum or mailing list, often haven't even mapped or been
> to a pub meet.
>

Not to say perhaps this isn't a trend, but I don't think true in the
case of the University of Münster.  Meaning representatives from the
Geoinformatics programs do come to State of the Map and do contribute
to the project.

I think some consideration has to be take as well that the project is
getting much bigger and not everyone is going to know everyone. There
are plenty of people that map regularly and don't participate in the
main mailing lists either, because they just want to map and don't
feel the need to be social or maybe language is an issue.

-Kate

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Re: [OSM-talk] Nice problem to have

2012-03-16 Thread Peter Wendorff 

Am 16.03.2012 08:31, schrieb Kai Krueger:

Kai Krueger wrote

This imho shows that the publicity of Apple and Foursquare using OSM
directly resulted in new mappers for OSM. Although it isn't the complete
record, that was around the 13th of September 2009 (anyone know if there
was a special occasion arount that time?), it is the second highest number
yet. Furthermore, with the news so fresh, perhaps we will still beat the
record.


Well, to answer my own question if we can beat the record of most new
mappers in a week, it is a resounding yes. This week (beginning 8th of
March) saw nearly 3300 new mappers, clearly beating the old record!

Richard Fairhurst pointed out that the old record was set in the week
Monopoly City Streets launched (a large scale internet game using
OpenStreetMap data), so again due to a popular user of OpenStreetMap.

So the more large sites use OSM, the faster the mapping community grows and
therefore it is imho import for OSM and its community to care about its data
consumers as it benefits from them even if they don't "give back".

Kai

On the other hand it might be worth to look on the contributions of 
these additional users.
How much do they contribute? Do they do more than adding their home or 
their own shop?


It's nothing to say against these users, even if it's not more, but I 
hope to be wrong while guessing, that mappers "invited by" some of these 
"user projects" aren't necessarily interested to become part of a 
community of mappers and to participate in that manner.
To conclude: we probably should be careful to reduce these "records" to 
the pure user count.


Peter

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Re: [OSM-talk] Nice problem to have

2012-03-16 Thread Lester Caine 

Peter Wendorff wrote:

It's nothing to say against these users, even if it's not more, but I hope to be
wrong while guessing, that mappers "invited by" some of these "user projects"
aren't necessarily interested to become part of a community of mappers and to
participate in that manner.
To conclude: we probably should be careful to reduce these "records" to the pure
user count.


'contributing users' who have more than say 10 commits?

--
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-
Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact
L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk
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Re: [OSM-talk] Survey about Incentives to contribute to OSM

2012-03-16 Thread Nick Whitelegg 

+1

I don't have a problem with people surveying us for research purposes, even if 
they do not contribute to the project.
What harm does it do?

Obviously surveying us for marketing purposes is rather more iffy, and any 
survey made for that purpose should be clearly warned as such.

Nick

-Richard Fairhurst  wrote: -
To: talk@openstreetmap.org
From: Richard Fairhurst 
Date: 15/03/2012 11:03AM
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Survey about Incentives to contribute to OSM

Serge Wroclawski wrote:
> This may appear on its surface to be an odd question, especially 
> to someone in academia, but our community is predicated 
> on the premise of communal sharing.

*ahem*

Speak for yourself. I engage with OSM because I believe that open geographic
data should exist, and the best way to fix that is by creating it. That's
it.

I think Dominik's request is entirely reasonable and I'm a little hacked off
with the negative-verging-on-paranoid response here. If you don't like it,
move on to the next thread and just don't answer the fricking questions.

cheers
Richard



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Re: [OSM-talk] Survey about Incentives to contribute to OSM

2012-03-16 Thread Steve Bennett 
On Thu, Mar 15, 2012 at 2:10 AM, Richard Weait  wrote:
> On Wed, Mar 14, 2012 at 8:57 AM, Dominik Wilmsen  wrote:
> You might not be sick of nonsense survey authors requesting our
> personal information to "study our project".  You might even be
> tempted to reply and to fill in their survey.

Whee. Try hanging out at Wikipedia, where they probably get a survey
request at least once a week - and probably more like a once a day if
you count all the individual languages etc. Unless there's actually
suspicion of malicious activities, there's no need to respond like
this.

I, for one, welcome our academic overlords.

Steve

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Re: [OSM-talk] Nice problem to have

2012-03-16 Thread Tom MacWright 
Hey,

There are quite a few examples of users coming from one of these big pushes
and then just doing it - for instance, we were working on Campo Grande,
because a foursquare user, muzito, complained that most of the city was
missing. The editing quickly became all conflicted because another user was
active - and it turned out to be muzito himself, who had never heard of
openstreetmap till a few weeks ago and just trained himself on Potlatch 2,
and now has essentially put the city on the map - complete with
neighborhood names and local knowledge.

It's typical for projects to have a low percentage of active users, and
that most users won't immediately be addicted to OpenStreetMap.

But we should react to this kind of news by trying to make OpenStreetMap
more accessible an welcoming to new users: not skeptical of them, their
intentions, or whether they'll stick around.

Tom

On Fri, Mar 16, 2012 at 4:33 AM, Lester Caine  wrote:

> Peter Wendorff wrote:
>
>> It's nothing to say against these users, even if it's not more, but I
>> hope to be
>> wrong while guessing, that mappers "invited by" some of these "user
>> projects"
>> aren't necessarily interested to become part of a community of mappers
>> and to
>> participate in that manner.
>> To conclude: we probably should be careful to reduce these "records" to
>> the pure
>> user count.
>>
>
> 'contributing users' who have more than say 10 commits?
>
> --
> Lester Caine - G8HFL
> -
> Contact - 
> http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=**contact
> L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk
> EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/
> Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk//
> Firebird - 
> http://www.firebirdsql.org/**index.php
>
>
> __**_
> talk mailing list
> talk@openstreetmap.org
> http://lists.openstreetmap.**org/listinfo/talk
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Nice problem to have

2012-03-16 Thread Toby Murray 
On Fri, Mar 16, 2012 at 2:57 AM, Peter Wendorff
 wrote:
> Am 16.03.2012 08:31, schrieb Kai Krueger:
>
>> Kai Krueger wrote
>>>
>>> This imho shows that the publicity of Apple and Foursquare using OSM
>>> directly resulted in new mappers for OSM. Although it isn't the complete
>>> record, that was around the 13th of September 2009 (anyone know if there
>>> was a special occasion arount that time?), it is the second highest
>>> number
>>> yet. Furthermore, with the news so fresh, perhaps we will still beat the
>>> record.
>>>
>> Well, to answer my own question if we can beat the record of most new
>> mappers in a week, it is a resounding yes. This week (beginning 8th of
>> March) saw nearly 3300 new mappers, clearly beating the old record!
>>
>> Richard Fairhurst pointed out that the old record was set in the week
>> Monopoly City Streets launched (a large scale internet game using
>> OpenStreetMap data), so again due to a popular user of OpenStreetMap.
>>
>> So the more large sites use OSM, the faster the mapping community grows
>> and
>> therefore it is imho import for OSM and its community to care about its
>> data
>> consumers as it benefits from them even if they don't "give back".
>>
>> Kai
>>
> On the other hand it might be worth to look on the contributions of these
> additional users.
> How much do they contribute? Do they do more than adding their home or their
> own shop?

How is this different than any other new user?

We have 120,000 accounts (52% of accounts with any edits) with nothing
but 1 or 2 changesets and 180,000 (78%) with fewer than 10 changesets.

And those numbers are from before this week. So I say new users are
new users are new users, no matter where they come from. Most will
make minimal changes. Some will do their town/neighborhood and a very
few will become ongoing active contributers.

Toby

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Re: [OSM-talk] Nice problem to have

2012-03-16 Thread Tom MacWright 
Making 60 changesets, spending a lot of time editing OpenStreetMap, and
going from being a public critic of the maps (versus Google Maps, of
course) to a public advocate is a big deal, even if it's just one person.

A 52% active user percentage isn't terribly low: it's similar to services
like twitter.

What's the point of being so dismissive of new users, and pessimistic on
whether they'll continue contributing? Why not actually try to encourage
people to contribute and make it easier for them, rather than scoffing at
their edits of 'just their own neighborhoods': that's where everyone
starts, after all.

Cheer up, we need an attitude readjustment.

On Fri, Mar 16, 2012 at 10:25 AM, Toby Murray  wrote:

> On Fri, Mar 16, 2012 at 2:57 AM, Peter Wendorff
>  wrote:
> > Am 16.03.2012 08:31, schrieb Kai Krueger:
> >
> >> Kai Krueger wrote
> >>>
> >>> This imho shows that the publicity of Apple and Foursquare using OSM
> >>> directly resulted in new mappers for OSM. Although it isn't the
> complete
> >>> record, that was around the 13th of September 2009 (anyone know if
> there
> >>> was a special occasion arount that time?), it is the second highest
> >>> number
> >>> yet. Furthermore, with the news so fresh, perhaps we will still beat
> the
> >>> record.
> >>>
> >> Well, to answer my own question if we can beat the record of most new
> >> mappers in a week, it is a resounding yes. This week (beginning 8th of
> >> March) saw nearly 3300 new mappers, clearly beating the old record!
> >>
> >> Richard Fairhurst pointed out that the old record was set in the week
> >> Monopoly City Streets launched (a large scale internet game using
> >> OpenStreetMap data), so again due to a popular user of OpenStreetMap.
> >>
> >> So the more large sites use OSM, the faster the mapping community grows
> >> and
> >> therefore it is imho import for OSM and its community to care about its
> >> data
> >> consumers as it benefits from them even if they don't "give back".
> >>
> >> Kai
> >>
> > On the other hand it might be worth to look on the contributions of these
> > additional users.
> > How much do they contribute? Do they do more than adding their home or
> their
> > own shop?
>
> How is this different than any other new user?
>
> We have 120,000 accounts (52% of accounts with any edits) with nothing
> but 1 or 2 changesets and 180,000 (78%) with fewer than 10 changesets.
>
> And those numbers are from before this week. So I say new users are
> new users are new users, no matter where they come from. Most will
> make minimal changes. Some will do their town/neighborhood and a very
> few will become ongoing active contributers.
>
> Toby
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Nice problem to have

2012-03-16 Thread Cartinus 
On 03/16/2012 03:39 PM, Tom MacWright wrote:
> What's the point of being so dismissive of new users, and pessimistic on
> whether they'll continue contributing?

Nobody in this thread is dismissive of new users. They are dismissive of
(useless) statistics.

---
m.v.g.,
Cartinus

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Re: [OSM-talk] Nice problem to have

2012-03-16 Thread Toby Murray 
On Fri, Mar 16, 2012 at 9:39 AM, Tom MacWright  wrote:
> Making 60 changesets, spending a lot of time editing OpenStreetMap, and
> going from being a public critic of the maps (versus Google Maps, of course)
> to a public advocate is a big deal, even if it's just one person.
>
> A 52% active user percentage isn't terribly low: it's similar to services
> like twitter.
>
> What's the point of being so dismissive of new users, and pessimistic on
> whether they'll continue contributing? Why not actually try to encourage
> people to contribute and make it easier for them, rather than scoffing at
> their edits of 'just their own neighborhoods': that's where everyone starts,
> after all.

I agree and wasn't trying to be pessimistic. I was just pointing out
that being dismissive of these new users from the recent publicity
we've gotten is silly because they are just like any new OSM user.
They're all good. The more people that make their first edit, the more
will make their 60th no matter where they come from!

Toby

Toby

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[OSM-talk] Google Summer of Code

2012-03-16 Thread Graham Jones 
Hi All,
I am pleased to announce that OSM has been accepted to participate in this
year's Google Summer of Code programme (
http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/org/google/gsoc2012/osm).

Thanks to all of you who have contributed to our ideas page (
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/GSoC_Project_Ideas_2012), which
supported the application.

Over the next few weeks we can expect potential students to review the
ideas page and contact us to seek clarification on ideas or guidance on how
to develop them.
Ian Dees has set a good example in responding to such requests positively,
and with a steer that a good start is to learn a bit about mapping.

I would be grateful if you would again review the ideas list and provide
any clarifications that may help students in producing a project proposal
from them.
I would also like to hear from anyone that would be prepared to act as a
mentor on this year's programme.

I will do a bit more work on a wiki page that I have started on the process
I propose to follow for this year's GSoC (
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/Processes), and
send another update email so you know what we will be doing.

Thanks again for your support.

Regards


Graham.

-- 
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Hartlepool, UK.
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Re: [OSM-talk] Survey about Incentives to contribute to OSM

2012-03-16 Thread mick 
On Fri, 16 Mar 2012 09:41:40 +
Nick Whitelegg  wrote:

> Obviously surveying us for marketing purposes is rather more iffy, and any 
> survey made for that purpose should be clearly warned as such.
> 
> Nick
> 
I was about to say these types of survey should result in the instigator being 
immediately removed from the list but then I thought of the case of a tool 
developer looking for info on directions to take or announcing new releases.

The lose of those people and their contribution would hurt

mick

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[OSM-talk] PUBS and their changing names

2012-03-16 Thread mick 
A suggestion for those with an interest in mapping the locations of purveyors 
of mind-numbing nectors.

On the genealogy lists I subscribe to there are regular requests for 
information about the location of pubs, inns, etc. Many of these inns have 
changed their name over time.

Perhaps there are some people who would be interested in building up this 
information and sharing it.

I'd do it myself but I don't have ready access to the information and I'm 
flat-out with my Romano-British research.

mick


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[OSM-talk] Lightning fast car routing built on OpenStreetMap data, with draggable routes

2012-03-16 Thread Jean-Marc Liotier 
Spotted in @openstreetmap's Twitter feed... I don't remember having ever
used a routing service that fast. It is apparently tuned for car
routing... And that's all I can say since the Karlsruher Institut für
Technologie whose homepage is linked from the results panel doesn't seem
to say anything about it. If anyone has further information about this
exciting service...

Try Tromso to Cadiz... http://map.project-osrm.org/bz - a 5201k route
generated instantly as far as I can measure. And it crosses ferries too,
so Inverness to Athens works (http://map.project-osrm.org/bA) as does
Moscow to Malta (http://map.project-osrm.org/bB) !


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Re: [OSM-talk] Lightning fast car routing built on OpenStreetMap data, with draggable routes

2012-03-16 Thread Jean-Marc Liotier 
On 03/17/2012 12:33 AM, Jean-Marc Liotier wrote:
> Spotted in @openstreetmap's Twitter feed... I don't remember having ever
> used a routing service that fast. It is apparently tuned for car
> routing... And that's all I can say since the Karlsruher Institut für
> Technologie whose homepage is linked from the results panel doesn't seem
> to say anything about it. If anyone has further information about this
> exciting service...

The service is of course at http://map.project-osrm.org/ as you may have
guessed from the examples in my initial message.

It has been mentioned by about everyone on Twitter
(https://bitly.com/pGcc3J+)... I'm surprised there has been no
conversation about it here.

For news about the project, you may follow
https://twitter.com/ProjectOSRM

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Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-dev] Google Summer of Code

2012-03-16 Thread Mikel Maron 
Well done!!!
 
* Mikel Maron * +14152835207 @mikel s:mikelmaron


>
> From: Graham Jones 
>To: OSM-talk Openstreetmap ; OSM-Dev Openstreetmap 
> 
>Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2012 1:03 AM
>Subject: [OSM-dev] Google Summer of Code
> 
>
>Hi All,
>I am pleased to announce that OSM has been accepted to participate in this 
>year's Google Summer of Code programme 
>(http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/org/google/gsoc2012/osm).
>
>
>Thanks to all of you who have contributed to our ideas page 
>(http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/GSoC_Project_Ideas_2012), which supported 
>the application.
>
>
>Over the next few weeks we can expect potential students to review the ideas 
>page and contact us to seek clarification on ideas or guidance on how to 
>develop them.
>Ian Dees has set a good example in responding to such requests positively, and 
>with a steer that a good start is to learn a bit about mapping.
>
>
>I would be grateful if you would again review the ideas list and provide any 
>clarifications that may help students in producing a project proposal from 
>them.   
>I would also like to hear from anyone that would be prepared to act as a 
>mentor on this year's programme.    
>
>
>I will do a bit more work on a wiki page that I have started on the process I 
>propose to follow for this year's GSoC 
>(http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/Processes), and send 
>another update email so you know what we will be doing.
>
>
>Thanks again for your support.
>
>Regards
>
>
>
>Graham.
>
>
>-- 
>Graham Jones
>Hartlepool, UK.
>
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