[OSM-talk] sports-tracker.com switched to OSM
The Finnish spin-off of Nokia embraces OSM. I updated https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Sports_Tracker , please check. I left a comment at http://www.sports-tracker.com/blog/2014/10/04/new-sports-tracker-website/#comment-16131 (currently in moderation) linking the copyright instructions because they make no mention of copyright or licenses in the attribution. Nemo ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Osmf-talk] A Better Map
Hi Serge, Serge Wroclawski schrieb: > Then we have the OSM community who sticks around and is participatory. > Sadly if you look at the current candidates for the board, most of > them have never even been in a working group. I know that's not your actual point, but as I'm one of the candidates for the board and as I've indeed never worked for a working group in the OSMF I have to ask on that. Do you suggest that this should be mandatory? As I see the OSMF as a representation of the OSM community I think it should not make a difference if one supports OSM via the Foundation or by doing stuff like plain mapping, helping on forum, ML, help or contribute code. Imho all is important and valuable work. > I just think that the discussion regarding the OSMF, and paid staff > especially, ignores the fact that a great deal of work is done today > by people who are happy to do it (as I am) [...] Indeed. And imho it's a counterpoint to having paid staff in the OSMF. Peda ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Fwd: Addresses are a tiny fraction of what we do (was: The world's best addressable map)
Thanks a lot for sharing the methodology of the French community. I like this approach regards m On Fri, Oct 24, 2014 at 9:38 PM, Christian Quest wrote: > Addresses in France... > > We started a project to collect addresses on a separate database called > "BANO" (Base d'Adresses Nationale Ouverte : Open National Address Database). > > We've recreated data from the national cadastre (scrapping 1.3 millions > PDF files), opendata source and... OSM. > > This database contains 15+ millions addresses so far, and we added almost > 4 millions hamlet and locality names recently. > A full dump contains 19.7 millions locations ranging from housenumber to > municipalities (no POI). > > Why we did it that way ? > > Import of millions of address can be done quick and dirty in a couple of > days, but such a "blind" import does not really fit the import policy and > we also learned from the TIGER import that fixing data is much less fun > than creating new data. > > Why import all this if the data is available (under ODbL) ? > > It seems much better to take the required time to import these data street > by street, reviewing it to make sure we improve its quality and not just > copy it. This will take years, many years (from 5 to 20) depending on how > deep to review the data before the upload. Some contributors have started > this work, but it is really boring and I don't expect we can attract a > large bunch of contributors on that project. > > Anyway, BANO updates its content every night and collects new OSM > addresses to replace other sources. So it also take advantage of address > reviewing/fixing done in OSM during this import process or during any > address related contribution. > > What is much more interesting is that OSM contributors can use BANO to > detect missing roads/streets and names (we have a BANO tiled overlay > showing missing names like here > http://layers.openstreetmap.fr/?zoom=18&lat=48.8474&lon=3.23191&layers=BFT > ). > This seems much more useful as we're far from having all roads and streets > mapped and named in France. > > We can even see this "BANO effect" on some graphs: > http://osm2020.free.fr/qa-commune/popu-sans-route-name-france.png > > Yes, something happened last may... BANO started to be available at that > time and the population for which no nearby named road was present as > decreased almost twice faster since then. > > You can see also the missing names graph here: > http://munin.openstreetmap.fr/osm12.free.org/osm104.openstreetmap.fr/bano_rapproche.html > More than 100.000 names have been added since may. > > > To summarize... yes, address are really an important dataset, mainly > because it allows to cross the boundary between non geographic data (postal > addresses) and geographic data with the help of (good) geocoding algorithm. > This allows to bring a lot of new data users to OSM by providing the data > fuel for services like routing from address A to address B. Some public > services web sites have started using OSM + BANO that way. > This also allows to geocode new (open) datasets to improve OSM with more > interesting data (we're about to do this for almost 3 pharmacy). > > Is it mandatory to have the huge address datasets in OSM ? > Maybe not, and not if the import process does not bring any improvement to > the data. > Mappers' time seems to me much better used for less mechanical > contributions. > > -- > Christian Quest - OpenStreetMap France > > ___ > talk mailing list > talk@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk > > ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Postponing elections, or other alternatives (Was: Modus operandi of the board)
Hi, On 10/24/2014 05:56 PM, Kathleen Danielson wrote: > If I'm understanding this correctly, in the next week or so, before > proxy voting begins, we could ask the board to make a decision to > include a "nonbinding resolution" or, essentially a "good faith" > resolution on the ballot. Frankly I'm not sure about required timings here but under the "Any other business" point, any non-binding stuff could be decided on the spot by the members. It would however not have the benefit of remote participation through proxy votes then. I'd be fine with adding something to the ballot but that would need to go through the board, whereas doing something on the spot just requires a couple members grabbing the microphone and improvising. > If that passes the board, it could be on the > ballot, and give direction to the newly elected board to take [some > action]. If it were voted in, the board wouldn't legally have to do > [some action], but hopefully would follow the wishes of the electorate. If it wouldn't do [some action], the electorate could fore the newly elected board to hold a new GM that actually has a binding resolution on the agenda (http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/303 and 304). If the board does not comply, the members can call a meeting themselves (http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/305). Of course if the newly elected board were manipulative enough, they could only do half of [some action], thereby mollifying the members and robbing them of the energy to actually go through the "forcing a meeting" process. I don't claim to be well versed in UK companies law but perusing your favourite search engine with "companies act 2006" plus whatever you're interested in will normally yield good results. Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09" E008°23'33" ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Fwd: Addresses are a tiny fraction of what we do (was: The world's best addressable map)
Addresses in France... We started a project to collect addresses on a separate database called "BANO" (Base d'Adresses Nationale Ouverte : Open National Address Database). We've recreated data from the national cadastre (scrapping 1.3 millions PDF files), opendata source and... OSM. This database contains 15+ millions addresses so far, and we added almost 4 millions hamlet and locality names recently. A full dump contains 19.7 millions locations ranging from housenumber to municipalities (no POI). Why we did it that way ? Import of millions of address can be done quick and dirty in a couple of days, but such a "blind" import does not really fit the import policy and we also learned from the TIGER import that fixing data is much less fun than creating new data. Why import all this if the data is available (under ODbL) ? It seems much better to take the required time to import these data street by street, reviewing it to make sure we improve its quality and not just copy it. This will take years, many years (from 5 to 20) depending on how deep to review the data before the upload. Some contributors have started this work, but it is really boring and I don't expect we can attract a large bunch of contributors on that project. Anyway, BANO updates its content every night and collects new OSM addresses to replace other sources. So it also take advantage of address reviewing/fixing done in OSM during this import process or during any address related contribution. What is much more interesting is that OSM contributors can use BANO to detect missing roads/streets and names (we have a BANO tiled overlay showing missing names like here http://layers.openstreetmap.fr/?zoom=18&lat=48.8474&lon=3.23191&layers=BFT ). This seems much more useful as we're far from having all roads and streets mapped and named in France. We can even see this "BANO effect" on some graphs: http://osm2020.free.fr/qa-commune/popu-sans-route-name-france.png Yes, something happened last may... BANO started to be available at that time and the population for which no nearby named road was present as decreased almost twice faster since then. You can see also the missing names graph here: http://munin.openstreetmap.fr/osm12.free.org/osm104.openstreetmap.fr/bano_rapproche.html More than 100.000 names have been added since may. To summarize... yes, address are really an important dataset, mainly because it allows to cross the boundary between non geographic data (postal addresses) and geographic data with the help of (good) geocoding algorithm. This allows to bring a lot of new data users to OSM by providing the data fuel for services like routing from address A to address B. Some public services web sites have started using OSM + BANO that way. This also allows to geocode new (open) datasets to improve OSM with more interesting data (we're about to do this for almost 3 pharmacy). Is it mandatory to have the huge address datasets in OSM ? Maybe not, and not if the import process does not bring any improvement to the data. Mappers' time seems to me much better used for less mechanical contributions. -- Christian Quest - OpenStreetMap France ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [HOT] Missing Maps article in New Scientist
Hi John, I'm not sure if the article originally mentioned HOT when you read it, but it does now. Missing Maps is an initiative HOT is involved in, so these are the very same processes we've been using in various countries over the past 4 years. Typically using Field Papers and JOSM as well as GPS units. The plan is certainly to work in multiple places. Best, -Kate On Fri, Oct 24, 2014 at 10:49 AM, john whelan wrote: > Interesting what sort of smart phones / process are they using and can we > get some to other areas? > > Thanks John > > On 24 October 2014 12:28, wrote: > >> Hi >> >> This week's New Scientist magazine (no 2992) has an article about the >> Missing Maps project. You can read it in full on their website. >> >> >> http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg22429924.100-slumdog-mapmakers-fill-in-the-urban-blanks.html?full=true >> >> JC >> >> ___ >> talk mailing list >> talk@openstreetmap.org >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk >> > > > ___ > HOT mailing list > h...@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot > > ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Missing Maps article in New Scientist
Interesting what sort of smart phones / process are they using and can we get some to other areas? Thanks John On 24 October 2014 12:28, wrote: > Hi > > This week's New Scientist magazine (no 2992) has an article about the > Missing Maps project. You can read it in full on their website. > > > http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg22429924.100-slumdog-mapmakers-fill-in-the-urban-blanks.html?full=true > > JC > > ___ > talk mailing list > talk@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk > ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] "The world’s best [Cycling] map"
Like for a bus route, a relation let's you follow the path and see the infrastructures associated with this. Look for this example at this relation that combines various ways. You can also include nodes. For a bike circuits, the various services along the circuit could be included to better document. This would be useful for specialized maps.OpenStreetMap | Relation : Camino de Santiago de Gran Canaria (2111069) Pierre De : Martin Koppenhoefer À : Pierre Béland Cc : Oleksiy Muzalyev ; Dave F. ; OSM Talk Envoyé le : Vendredi 24 octobre 2014 13h03 Objet : Re: [OSM-talk] "The world’s best [Cycling] map" 2014-10-24 18:39 GMT+02:00 Pierre Béland : adding in a relation the infrastructures such as campings, repair shops, etc. why would you need a relation for this? There is already a spatial relation as soon as you insert this stuff. cheers, Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] "The world’s best [Cycling] map"
2014-10-24 18:39 GMT+02:00 Pierre Béland : > adding in a relation the infrastructures such as campings, repair shops, > etc. why would you need a relation for this? There is already a spatial relation as soon as you insert this stuff. cheers, Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] "The world’s best [Cycling] map"
Hi Pierre, There are probably many such cycle paths. I cycled myself at North Sea Cycle Route [1], from Hamburg to Copenhagen, Chesapeake & Ohio (Great Allegheny Passage) [2] from Washington D.C. to Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, and Danube Cycle Path. The map is always a critical item, as a speed of a bicycle and cyclists' endurance are limited. There is not much margin for an error, especially if it is getting dark, or if it rains, etc. Everybody uses a map constantly on a cycling tour. brgds Oleksiy [1] http://www.northsea-cycle.com/ [2] http://bikewashington.org/canal/ http://www.atatrail.org/ On 24.10.2014 18:39, Pierre Béland wrote: > OSM is a good place to document information about these various > circuits. I wonder if there is any relation like for Camino de > Santiago trail to document such cycling route infrastructures, adding > in a relation the infrastructures such as campings, repair shops, etc. > > > Pierre > ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] "The world’s best [Cycling] map"
OSM is a good place to document information about these various circuits. I wonder if there is any relation like for Camino de Santiago trail to document such cycling route infrastructures, adding in a relation the infrastructures such as campings, repair shops, etc. Pierre De : Oleksiy Muzalyev À : Dave F. ; OSM Talk Envoyé le : Vendredi 24 octobre 2014 12h11 Objet : Re: [OSM-talk] "The world’s best [Cycling] map" Hi Dave, The Danube Cycle Path (Donauradweg) is arguably one of the best in the world. Here is a camping site for cyclists near Linz: http://osm.org/go/0JhPQJjmt--?m= . As you can see the camping site is mapped with an address and a name. There are such camping sites every 40 - 50 kilometers. There is usually a kitchen, washing machines, etc. Everything in excellent condition and affordable. The Danube Cycle Path (Donauradweg) goes all the way from Vienna to Linz, to Passau, on so on for hundreds kilometers on both sides of the Danube river. It is very popular route. During a long distance cycling tour one may want to visit also a bicycle shop for a repair, a hospital or a pharmacy, a supermarket, sometimes a hotel, etc. In such a case almost everything is cycling infrastructure. Best regards Oleksiy On 24.10.2014 17:29, Dave F. wrote: > ... > I, too, have a vested interest: in cycling (because I bloody love > doing it). I ask, nay, demand, that everyone down tools, stop what > they are doing & map all cycling infrastructure, to make OSM the > world's best map for riders of bikes. > ... > I don't find adding addresses "fun" so I don't do it. ... ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Missing Maps article in New Scientist
Hi This week's New Scientist magazine (no 2992) has an article about the Missing Maps project. You can read it in full on their website. http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg22429924.100-slumdog-mapmakers-fill-in-the-urban-blanks.html?full=true JC ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] "The world’s best [Cycling] map"
Hi Oleksiy On 24/10/2014 17:11, Oleksiy Muzalyev wrote: ...In such a case almost everything is cycling infrastructure. My exact point. If everybody adds the bits they find useful or "fun" then, as I said we end up with: 'a database that contains info for a wide variety of uses.' Cheers Dave F. --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] "The world’s best [Cycling] map"
Hi Dave, The Danube Cycle Path (Donauradweg) is arguably one of the best in the world. Here is a camping site for cyclists near Linz: http://osm.org/go/0JhPQJjmt--?m= . As you can see the camping site is mapped with an address and a name. There are such camping sites every 40 - 50 kilometers. There is usually a kitchen, washing machines, etc. Everything in excellent condition and affordable. The Danube Cycle Path (Donauradweg) goes all the way from Vienna to Linz, to Passau, on so on for hundreds kilometers on both sides of the Danube river. It is very popular route. During a long distance cycling tour one may want to visit also a bicycle shop for a repair, a hospital or a pharmacy, a supermarket, sometimes a hotel, etc. In such a case almost everything is cycling infrastructure. Best regards Oleksiy On 24.10.2014 17:29, Dave F. wrote: > ... > I, too, have a vested interest: in cycling (because I bloody love > doing it). I ask, nay, demand, that everyone down tools, stop what > they are doing & map all cycling infrastructure, to make OSM the > world's best map for riders of bikes. > ... > I don't find adding addresses "fun" so I don't do it. ... ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Postponing elections, or other alternatives (Was: Modus operandi of the board)
FWIW, I'm also wary of resolutions dictating how the board operates. I think that a survey (or similar) is a good idea, but as Kate says, it doesn't require a resolution. Direct democracy is cumbersome and often lacks nuance, which is why it's so infrequently used. Representative democracies and their ilk are far more common simply because they are far more efficient. If I'm understanding this correctly, in the next week or so, before proxy voting begins, we could ask the board to make a decision to include a "nonbinding resolution" or, essentially a "good faith" resolution on the ballot. If that passes the board, it could be on the ballot, and give direction to the newly elected board to take [some action]. If it were voted in, the board wouldn't legally have to do [some action], but hopefully would follow the wishes of the electorate. Is that a fair reading of what you said, Frederik? On Fri, Oct 24, 2014 at 5:29 PM, Clifford Snow wrote: > > On Fri, Oct 24, 2014 at 7:59 AM, Kate Chapman wrote: > >> I actually don't think it makes sense for the membership to approach >> things by passing a bunch of resolutions requiring the board to do things. >> I think certainly a drastic resolution like dismantling the entire board >> and starting again is the type of resolution that would be something to >> come from the membership. >> >> Acting in the interest of the membership would be to conduct an annual >> survey and develop a vision. Though really that would be something that >> could happen as part of a fairly normal board strategic planning process. >> I'd view this as being approached simply through the matter of the new >> board finding common ground and better ways to approach the business of >> running the OSMF. Meaning maybe a survey isn't the best way to determine >> things, maybe there is another way. Rather than dictate the approach the >> board should be tasked with doing what is in the best interest of the >> organization. A part of this I would see as working with a facilitator and >> others to educate board members in what generally it means from a legal and >> operational standpoint to be on a board. >> > > My concern is that the Board will use it's perception of how OSM should > operate without consulting the community. Or as a worst case, do nothing. A > proper survey, with published results, not only helps the Board's decision > gives us a framework for community discussions. We have many smart people > that do not participate on the mailing lists. Getting their input will be > difficult but we need to hear from as many people as possible. A survey > does face the obstacles of language, cost, time and apathy. > > I applaud the use of a facilitator. As a former, and I might and really > bad facilitator, their skills can help the Board reach good decisions. But > even the best facilitator can't help if there isn't good data for the > decisions. > > Lastly, it is still the Boards responsibility to make good decisions. They > may not always agree with the community, for example, diversity, but the > Board should be expected to do the right thing and to explain why they did. > > > -- > @osm_seattle > osm_seattle.snowandsnow.us > OpenStreetMap: Maps with a human touch > > ___ > talk mailing list > talk@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk > > ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] "The world’s best [Cycling] map"
Hi Steve Coast has a vested interest in encouraging others to add addressing to OSM. http://stevecoast.com/2013/09/03/mapping-my-next-adventure/ I, too, have a vested interest: in cycling (because I bloody love doing it). I ask, nay, demand, that everyone down tools, stop what they are doing & map all cycling infrastructure, to make OSM the world's best map for riders of bikes. I'm joking/being mildly sarcastic, of course. OSM is a 'Do it yourself' - mappers add what interests them. With a diverse enough crowd we end up with a database that contains info for a wide variety of uses. I don't find adding addresses "fun" so I don't do it. I wouldn't dream of telling someone what we 'need' to map. Someone recently added all trees to a local university campus. To my eyes, completely pointless, but he wanted to do it, so more power to him. SC quote: "what’s stopping us replacing proprietary maps... is addressing" He's speaking from his vested interest position - SatNavs, which is just one small segment of OSM's uses. In many areas OSM is, all be it slower than I'd like, replacing proprietary maps. More web pages are embedding OSM slippy maps especially in the UK as a free to use map compared with Ordnance Survey. Unfortunately Google is still seen as the leader in the field due to the biased, free promotion it gets from media outlets like the BBC. I don't know how that can be overcome, but I don't think adding addresses is it. SC quote: "So why don’t we go do that?" I've little interest on OSMF, or the board as I rather go outside & map. Dave F> --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Postponing elections, or other alternatives (Was: Modus operandi of the board)
On Fri, Oct 24, 2014 at 7:59 AM, Kate Chapman wrote: > I actually don't think it makes sense for the membership to approach > things by passing a bunch of resolutions requiring the board to do things. > I think certainly a drastic resolution like dismantling the entire board > and starting again is the type of resolution that would be something to > come from the membership. > > Acting in the interest of the membership would be to conduct an annual > survey and develop a vision. Though really that would be something that > could happen as part of a fairly normal board strategic planning process. > I'd view this as being approached simply through the matter of the new > board finding common ground and better ways to approach the business of > running the OSMF. Meaning maybe a survey isn't the best way to determine > things, maybe there is another way. Rather than dictate the approach the > board should be tasked with doing what is in the best interest of the > organization. A part of this I would see as working with a facilitator and > others to educate board members in what generally it means from a legal and > operational standpoint to be on a board. > My concern is that the Board will use it's perception of how OSM should operate without consulting the community. Or as a worst case, do nothing. A proper survey, with published results, not only helps the Board's decision gives us a framework for community discussions. We have many smart people that do not participate on the mailing lists. Getting their input will be difficult but we need to hear from as many people as possible. A survey does face the obstacles of language, cost, time and apathy. I applaud the use of a facilitator. As a former, and I might and really bad facilitator, their skills can help the Board reach good decisions. But even the best facilitator can't help if there isn't good data for the decisions. Lastly, it is still the Boards responsibility to make good decisions. They may not always agree with the community, for example, diversity, but the Board should be expected to do the right thing and to explain why they did. -- @osm_seattle osm_seattle.snowandsnow.us OpenStreetMap: Maps with a human touch ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Postponing elections, or other alternatives (Was: Modus operandi of the board)
Hi Clifford, Just a couple comments on your resolutions. On Fri, Oct 24, 2014 at 6:26 AM, Clifford Snow wrote: > > On Fri, Oct 24, 2014 at 2:55 AM, Frederik Ramm > wrote: > Two of the resolutions I'd like to see put to a debate and vote are 1) > requiring the Board to conduct annual surveys of the membership and 2) > develop an OSM vision. I am happy to help draft the resolutions but need > help with the process. > I actually don't think it makes sense for the membership to approach things by passing a bunch of resolutions requiring the board to do things. I think certainly a drastic resolution like dismantling the entire board and starting again is the type of resolution that would be something to come from the membership. Acting in the interest of the membership would be to conduct an annual survey and develop a vision. Though really that would be something that could happen as part of a fairly normal board strategic planning process. I'd view this as being approached simply through the matter of the new board finding common ground and better ways to approach the business of running the OSMF. Meaning maybe a survey isn't the best way to determine things, maybe there is another way. Rather than dictate the approach the board should be tasked with doing what is in the best interest of the organization. A part of this I would see as working with a facilitator and others to educate board members in what generally it means from a legal and operational standpoint to be on a board. Best, -Kate Thanks, > Clifford > > > -- > @osm_seattle > osm_seattle.snowandsnow.us > OpenStreetMap: Maps with a human touch > > ___ > talk mailing list > talk@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk > > ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Fwd: Addresses are a tiny fraction of what we do (was: The world’s best addressable map)
On Fri, Oct 24, 2014 at 2:56 PM, Paweł Marynowski wrote: > Don't you think that more data = more people eager to add notes about what's > missing? Eg. nearly noone wants to add bunch of notes about missing > addresses. When you make import, people are starting make notes about > imprecise data. At least that's my observation regarding data in Poland. Exactly. Now it'd be great if we at least had some means to reply back to anonymous users who add notes. GitHub issue: https://github.com/openstreetmap/openstreetmap-website/issues/776 My observation is that GitHub issues with its accept/reject/leave forever conclusion to every discussion are not exactly a best place for a coordinated development. Also, users want to have everything, developers want to write as little code as needed (because they are volunteers not paid by OSMF) and the OSM as a system stays in a hiatus. Software (both the editor and consumer side) is as important as data and community. On that topic, I was going to write a rant about how bad apps that use OSM data are (OsmAnd, MapFactor, be-on-road and many others). Assuming that our map data are the best in many places, these apps would be so popular. They aren't, because they either are awkward to use, or try to do everything while not doing any single thing well. Good software -> more users who either edit or report errors -> better community. That is my opinion. Michał ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Postponing elections, or other alternatives (Was: Modus operandi of the board)
On Fri, Oct 24, 2014 at 2:55 AM, Frederik Ramm wrote: > If we don't manage to get a board majority to postpone the whole thing, > there's something else we could do at least: Ask those who stand for > election to commit to calling a new GM within a certain time frame, and > offer the membership a "reboot" option. > Frederik, Thanks for digging into the AoA. As I read the AoA it appears that we can request a vote on a special resolution. Not sure the mechanics of submitting a special resolution. In other associations I belonged to in the US there was a number, usually expressed as a percentage of the membership that was required to sign off on the resolution before it would be accepted by the Board for a vote. Keeping with the spirit of the AoA, we are required to hold a vote for board members if the last GM was more than 12 months. I am not comfortable with amending the vote to 0 people. I do like your suggestion that we go ahead with the vote on the current candidates and with a special resolution to call for a vote within 3 months for new board members. The three month period would serve two purposes. First it would give us a cooling off period. These conversations have been too personal. Second, it would give us time to properly assess the candidates and submit other resolutions as we deem necessary. Two of the resolutions I'd like to see put to a debate and vote are 1) requiring the Board to conduct annual surveys of the membership and 2) develop an OSM vision. I am happy to help draft the resolutions but need help with the process. Thanks, Clifford -- @osm_seattle osm_seattle.snowandsnow.us OpenStreetMap: Maps with a human touch ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Addresses are a tiny fraction of what we do (was: The world’s best addressable map)
2014-10-24 14:14 GMT+02:00 Marc Gemis : > I totally agree with you, But, I have the impression that people that do > the imports don't do them to create a community. they do it to have the > data in OSM. > Don't you think that more data = more people eager to add notes about what's missing? Eg. nearly noone wants to add bunch of notes about missing addresses. When you make import, people are starting make notes about imprecise data. At least that's my observation regarding data in Poland. -- *Paweł Marynowski* user:Yarl Stowarzyszenie OpenStreetMap Polska http://osm.org.pl/ http://fb.com/osmpolska/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Addresses are a tiny fraction of what we do (was: The world’s best addressable map)
> > Pawel Paprota's reaction is along the same lines for me: "we could not > have accomplished this amount of data without an import." Again no > focus on the community or how the extra data is going to attract new > mappers. > > This is a different OSM than I have in mind. What strikes me in just about every discussion on OSM mailing lists is that people frequently seem to think about stuff in black or white terms. Granted, my reply to Frederik can also be defined as such but he is running for the board so I guess different rules apply when trying to scrutinize his views. The two global approches to OSM (the "OSM as a technical/data project" and the "OSM as community/local mapping") will *not*, should *not* and even can *not* (as in - it's impossible) be mutually exclusive. However, I do think there should be room given for each approach to develop and certainly for me this is a critical to anyone who aspires to "lead" OSM from the OSMF side. In my opinion the most productive outcome would be to have people on the board who understand the value of both approaches and do not apply their own philosophy to the topic - it is the community who should decide how OSM grows and board members should be servants to the community in this respect. Paweł ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Addresses are a tiny fraction of what we do (was: The world’s best addressable map)
On Fri, Oct 24, 2014 at 5:05 AM, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: > We'd still need to survey in order to do the maintenance work and correct > errors. That's the main reason why imports are often seen as problematic: > they will not create a comunity, rather there are indications that the > growth of the comunity will slow down when everything looks "completed", > and then you'll have the same errors in our db than all the other people > that have imported from the official source, and no-one near to fix them or > feeling "responsible" for it. If the amount of errors is significant, more > data will actively draw people away (fixing bugs is less appealing to many > mappers than setting the first foot steps on white map canvas). > I disagree that import do not create community. We build a strong community around an import, and address import. That community continues to grow. We even discovered that having an address node makes it easier to new mappers to add POI information to the node and to nudge it to the entrance. It is correct that imports can create more "maintenance" work. But then it gives us motivation to add encourage more mappers. If users of our data want addresses, demanding it isn't going to make it happen. If they want specific features, we give them ways to help us achieve those goal. Such as help fund OSM, help us grow the community, fund the development of betters tools, help us get our story out. etc. We shouldn't be afraid, we should embrace these requests. Clifford -- @osm_seattle osm_seattle.snowandsnow.us OpenStreetMap: Maps with a human touch ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Addresses are a tiny fraction of what we do (was: The world’s best addressable map)
> > ? We'd still need to survey in order to do the maintenance work and > correct errors. That's the main reason why imports are often seen as > problematic: they will not create a comunity, rather there are indications > that the growth of the comunity will slow down when everything looks > "completed", and then you'll have the same errors in our db than all the > other people that have imported from the official source, and no-one near > to fix them or feeling "responsible" for it. If the amount of errors is > significant, more data will actively draw people away (fixing bugs is less > appealing to many mappers than setting the first foot steps on white map > canvas). > > I totally agree with you, But, I have the impression that people that do the imports don't do them to create a community. they do it to have the data in OSM. I've read things like "we don't need to do updates, we can wait until the imported source is updated, they have thousands of paid people to update the data". Pawel Paprota's reaction is along the same lines for me: "we could not have accomplished this amount of data without an import." Again no focus on the community or how the extra data is going to attract new mappers. This is a different OSM than I have in mind. regards m ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Download source of all wikipages?
On Fri, Oct 24, 2014 at 11:54:38AM +0100, Grant Slater wrote: > Hi Richard, > > https://dump.wiki.openstreetmap.org (currently offline) had daily > exports of the wiki. > > I will try bring it back online in the next few days. ok, thanks for trying. Richard ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Addresses are a tiny fraction of what we do (was: The world’s best addressable map)
2014-10-24 13:17 GMT+02:00 Marc Gemis : > For me it is not unthinkable that once a company starts using OSM data for > a commercial offering, they might start demanding to add that data. > indeed, could happen from time to time ;-) > Of course they cannot demand anything from the community, but they can > import the data, or some people might feel a need to import data, or... > But for me, allowing (address) imports is already a form of obeying > that marketing demand. > if you have address information in a suitable license to import it into OSM, you can do this. All that is required is that you check the data regarding its quality (accuracy, currentness etc.), document your plan, explain how you will merge existing data and discuss this with the local comunity and the "experts" on the import list. > Then OSM is no longer about people surveying and drawing from aerial > images. > ? We'd still need to survey in order to do the maintenance work and correct errors. That's the main reason why imports are often seen as problematic: they will not create a comunity, rather there are indications that the growth of the comunity will slow down when everything looks "completed", and then you'll have the same errors in our db than all the other people that have imported from the official source, and no-one near to fix them or feeling "responsible" for it. If the amount of errors is significant, more data will actively draw people away (fixing bugs is less appealing to many mappers than setting the first foot steps on white map canvas). cheers, Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Addresses are a tiny fraction of what we do
In the city of Karviná, in your example, these two industrial buildings are much larger in reality than imported: http://osm.org/go/0LZc_9WgW?m= http://osm.org/go/0LZc_2625?m= But they can be corrected in JOSM easily. And it is not a big deal. An excellent stadium and a soccer pitch are not mapped here: http://osm.org/go/0LZeTNDQl-?m= , it is not like some shed missing. But in general, the map of Karviná is impressive. Sometimes municipal databases were created in 90s, with obsolete equipment, by employees who could not care less. But sometimes they are of good or medium quality. An import can be reviewed and corrected with satellite imagery or a survey. So both approaches are mutually-reinforcing. brgds Oleksiy On 24.10.2014 12:48, Paweł Paprota wrote: > ... did an awesome import of addresses > and buildings. Now compare it with the Polish side: > > http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/49.8719/18.5786 > ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Addresses are a tiny fraction of what we do (was: The world’s best addressable map)
For me it is not unthinkable that once a company starts using OSM data for a commercial offering, they might start demanding to add that data. Of course they cannot demand anything from the community, but they can import the data, or some people might feel a need to import data, or... It's hard to explain in a foreign language and via mail. But for me, allowing (address) imports is already a form of obeying that marketing demand. Then OSM is no longer about people surveying and drawing from aerial images. regards m On Fri, Oct 24, 2014 at 12:31 PM, Florian Lohoff wrote: > > Hi, > > On Thu, Oct 23, 2014 at 01:32:19PM +0200, Marc Gemis wrote: > > So don't you expect "pressure" from companies using OSM for navigation > and > > geocoding to add more addresses ? Or do you expect them to use many > > different datasources ? > > I dont get this? "pressure"? On what basis? You get the OSM data on a > "take it or leave it" basis. > > If it doesnt suit your need you are free to spend an arbitrary amount of > money > to buy datasets which better suit your needs. > > OSM comes without any guarantees. > > Me personally i love addresses which might be the cause for >40K addresses > i have added to OSM in the past years. I am absolutely optimistic that > addresscompletion for example for Germany wont take more than 3 years. So > by 2017 we'll have all Adresses. Its just a matter of time and i am > very relaxed about this. When i started with OSM in 2007 i wouldnt have > thought that we'll have that amount of Data in 2014 just 7 years later. > > Flo > -- > Florian Lohoff f...@zz.de > > -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) > > iQIVAwUBVEoqZZDdQSDLCfIvAQoqfw//aT5y1P1GRJ69bJgLE1TnzDPKT3p9hJhU > xr6lUPh/ZP5KKPdLqwpjyTRvLaVTf1+YfHgUkg032NF7gj17ygH8wXRODTIU5JVa > 6zlkCMQC5XlQALTJtJ6vqjxfNzc/mxfJui7xfsoe6RP9OuRzHN2tZTJBx5nMBf4A > +NUVNpw2rq4J97oZKeBnrPDZ24gzOEZ5zUSlvSs5oQlA4lc5XHlqF2IZO0OyPsnt > rqMexE9t0wwsFFlZapw270EH3hIebohOHuHHfmdKA9EikjmHRHU9vrtxwPMGpxDV > L7fWfrupuFjkL6M4ZjIuIFCHXCWLvNSFalN5grf6ospD0JJY+tdSoo26fiuHgX88 > CQmxijgbFNOjrJjPmkMJM0GGJRE9LuA9qyQmA6j9laTXwV6Cx6e6HHxcPOsv/Tzz > sKC7nlez9e/RqtQjB7B8AG1Dj7Hk/XlYDZa/T9+oIxj8JaxehuvV9gUi9ETNLm9l > HLvVeJ5Aujj42Hu42S/6p6T25h/nBS4Fg1VdqfKgudfiW8eoBGy4iUVqfRsd6CE8 > xf8wQlTGlYg0FuwpvldgIRUFhc72c4S8XYehGGI6YS9XV09NqTrcVqQBnqm4d9RU > f8CMRkG4H8f7YRB7PUqTUAacvE/R7K8gFf4mnATC82QKcKZc4JT7usvhwRPiEdpm > 7P1eB1jdTZQ= > =cnQK > -END PGP SIGNATURE- > > ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Overpass turbo Has it been amended?
> > Ok, so you recommend to use QL instead of XML. Is there some feature that > > are in QL and not in XML ? > > The XML will be maintained for how long ? > > and quickosm should switch from XML to QL in the short term ? > Currently, all features are available in both XML and QL variants, but > the most recent additions have only been announced and documented for > the QL language. I don't think that the XML language will be dumped > anytime soon. Maybe Roland can tell us more about his long-term plans > about deprecating the XML language. Thank you for bringing up this question. Acouple of people have asked me in personal communication, but I haven't made so far a public statement to bring clarity. Both languages have unlimited support. The software is designed in such a way such that the XML syntax makes no extra effort. In fact, the names of the statements are the names of the internal classes, so the XML support is tightly integrated. QL makes a little bit more effort with a dedicated parser, but that language has a couple of advantages: It is more briefly, which simplfies to write and publish code of it. Secondly, most programmers are nowadays familiar with C-style syntax, so there is less learning effort. The probably most striking aspect might be a cultural. Forced updates are amongst the things in the software world I hate most, so I would not deprecate things unless I'm absolutely forced to do so. The program code by design doesn't require deprecation, so it is unlikely that I would deprecate one of the languages soon. Another issue is documentation. I'm lagging behind a lot in this regard. And to catch up more quickly with incoming minor fixes and extensions, I would prefer to write the documentation for QL only in the future and publish for the XML syntax just a translation help. Best regards, Roland ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Download source of all wikipages?
Hi Richard, https://dump.wiki.openstreetmap.org (currently offline) had daily exports of the wiki. I will try bring it back online in the next few days. Kind regards, Grant Part of OSM sysadmin team. On 24 October 2014 10:58, Richard Z. wrote: > Hi, > > is it possible to download the complete source of all wiki > pages from wiki.openstreetmap.org - preferably as highly compressed > tarball? > > I am frequently finding that without a full regexp search > it is very easy to miss important bits of information and > related/similar tags so a copy at home where I could apply > all of my unix tools for search would be very convenient. > > Richard > > ___ > talk mailing list > talk@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Addresses are a tiny fraction of what we do (was: The world’s best addressable map)
> > OSM is not a melting pot for the world's open data and while there is a > place for imports, every import will have to be carefully thought about > and evaluated. Streamlining that process is not necessarily in the best > interest of OpenStreetMap. > What do you mean? Clearly it *is* in the interest of OSM unless you have a very different definition of OSM. In some areas of the map you would not see most of the data (or any data, really) were it not for imports. Nearby my home area Czech community did an awesome import of addresses and buildings. Now compare it with the Polish side: http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/49.8719/18.5786 What is your vision for this specific area if there was no building/address import? Do you expect that in 1 or 5 or 10 years you would have the same level of coverage by local mappers? Regarding streamlining and imports in general - to be honest I don't see much point in the current (quite complex and lenghty) process for analyzing and blessing the "good" imports. Instead of putting up more walls between data and OSM the project should heavily invest in official backend (as in - *built-in into osm.org*) tools for detecting and manging (e.g. reverting) changes to the database. At this point there are tons of 3rd-party scripts but that will not scale and will lead to more calls for "careful" imports and that will of course lead to more barriers for people interested in importing data. Paweł ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Addresses are a tiny fraction of what we do (was: The world’s best addressable map)
Hi, On Thu, Oct 23, 2014 at 01:32:19PM +0200, Marc Gemis wrote: > So don't you expect "pressure" from companies using OSM for navigation and > geocoding to add more addresses ? Or do you expect them to use many > different datasources ? I dont get this? "pressure"? On what basis? You get the OSM data on a "take it or leave it" basis. If it doesnt suit your need you are free to spend an arbitrary amount of money to buy datasets which better suit your needs. OSM comes without any guarantees. Me personally i love addresses which might be the cause for >40K addresses i have added to OSM in the past years. I am absolutely optimistic that addresscompletion for example for Germany wont take more than 3 years. So by 2017 we'll have all Adresses. Its just a matter of time and i am very relaxed about this. When i started with OSM in 2007 i wouldnt have thought that we'll have that amount of Data in 2014 just 7 years later. Flo -- Florian Lohoff f...@zz.de signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Download source of all wikipages?
Hi, is it possible to download the complete source of all wiki pages from wiki.openstreetmap.org - preferably as highly compressed tarball? I am frequently finding that without a full regexp search it is very easy to miss important bits of information and related/similar tags so a copy at home where I could apply all of my unix tools for search would be very convenient. Richard ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Postponing elections, or other alternatives (Was: Modus operandi of the board)
Hi, On 10/24/2014 10:41 AM, Frederik Ramm wrote: >> Is there *any* mechanism to put a new question to the full membership in >> the upcoming election, or is it too late for that? > > The board does not have to call AGMs or do elections. I don't know if > legally it is too late to cancel the already-announced AGM and election > but I guess we could simply do it - if we don't show up then there's no > AGM. It would require a board decision. [...] If we don't manage to get a board majority to postpone the whole thing, there's something else we could do at least: Ask those who stand for election to commit to calling a new GM within a certain time frame, and offer the membership a "reboot" option. (Quite frankly, the term limit that's being discussed is nice but I'd prefer a simple rule that says, at least for the "reboot", that nobody who ever had a board seat is eligible. Fresh faces strictly.) Then our members could elect these people and they could then plan the reboot from the inside. It would not be as strong as an AGM resolution but better than nothing. Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09" E008°23'33" ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] OpenStreetMap ten years on, and why it's time for a fresh slate
This one's going to be long, but it might be worth it, I hope. I've been involved in OSM for almost ten years now. 22nd November is my OSM birthday: https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/2004-November/000111.html Message 000111. Right now talk@ is up to 71235, never mind the other lists. Come to Charlbury on the 22nd, I'll buy you all a drink and find you somewhere to sleep. (Don't tell Anna.) OSM has changed my life, and my outlook, in several ways. One is realising that a small number of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world, without any hope of a fast buck - which is a noble idea we all have in our 20s but this was the first real-life proof, to me, that it really does work. The other, perhaps more important, is: it's down to you. If you want change, change things. In 2005 we expressed this by demanding action, not words, from anyone who said 'OSM should do it like this' on the lists. The word 'should' was a red rag to us back then. In time the word 'do-ocracy' was coined. But the other half of the do-ocracy equation has never received enough credit. It's not just that "actions speak louder than words"; it's that "we trust you to carry out the actions". OSM doesn't have a moderation system for edits. Site improvements don't have to go through five board committees. It's OSM. You're a contributor. You've given us your time. We trust you. Do great things. That, more than anything, is why OSM works. We value, and trust, our contributors. Every one of them. OSM is 'do great things' multiplied by ten thousand. The slight wrinkle is that this only gets you 95% of the way there. The 95% is astonishing. The 95% is mapping large parts of the world to ridiculous levels of detail. We are by most metrics the best available map of Germany, the UK, increasingly France, Russia and the urban US, and a hundred places I don't even know about. (I made this comment elsewhere. I was immediately picked up by a Belgian mapper, Marc, saying "hey, what about us?". He was right. I didn't know. That's how far we have come.) The 95% is running the most crazily lean, efficient hardware setup, constantly reinventing: our API went from plain-old-Ruby to Rails to C++, our tile servers from monolithic to distributed, our database from MySQL to Postgres, our UI from entirely serverside to largely clientside. The 95% is an ecosystem of renderers and routers and, dare I admit it, the sleekest desktop map data editor there is and its universe of amazing plugins. (It begins with J. Don't make me say the name.) So if I talk about the 5% that do-ocracy doesn't accomplish, that's no slur on the OSM community. Our 5% is Wikipedia's 30% and Google's 95%. We do more, ourselves, better, than anyone else. Rewind to 2012. It was pretty clear we needed a new default editor on osm.org. Potlatch 2 still worked, but Flash Player was already (rightly) on the way out, and the six-year-old Potlatch user interface - initially designed for moderately clued-up users working on a blank canvas back in 2006 - was confusing for the newbies attracted by the explosion of public interest in OSM. This was a 5% problem. We needed a new beginners' editor, but no-one was clamouring to write it. The 95% of experienced OSMers, understandably, wanted to work on JOSM plugins for experienced OSMers. I tentatively started work on a newbie-friendly JavaScript editor called iD (I'm terrible at naming software) but I was pretty burned out on OSM development at the time and only got so far. Happily, in this case, there was a Fairy Godmother in the shape of the Knight Foundation and Mapbox. The Knight Foundation funded Mapbox to rebuild and complete iD. As part of this some incredibly skilled JavaScript developers and designers got to work on it. I don't think the outcome could have been any better, and it continues to delight me right now: while we're pointlessly beating seven shades out of each other in this thread, "osmbot: [osm-website|master|John Firebaugh] Update to iD v1.6.1" has just flashed up on IRC. iD is how it ought to work. iD isn't telling the 95% how to map or what to map. It isn't saying "Mapbox want turn restrictions, therefore the osm.org default will be devoted to mapping turn restrictions". It's simply a 5% intervention, a new tool which no-one else was writing, to increase the 95% of do-ers, to bring us more contributors. The effort in building it will benefit us many times over. But we can't always expect a Fairy Godmother to appear. We struck lucky in this one case. There are plenty of places where we haven't. I can recite a few of them. We have very little mobile presence, even though smartphones are ideal surveying devices; a 5% intervention here would bring so many more people to our 95%. Diversity is almost becoming a hackneyed word in OSM but let's restate the truth of it; a 5% intervention would make sure that our 95% of do-ers grows
Re: [OSM-talk] Postponing elections, or other alternatives (Was: Modus operandi of the board)
Hi, IANAL and all, but On 10/24/2014 09:33 AM, Kathleen Danielson wrote: > Is there *any* mechanism to put a new question to the full membership in > the upcoming election, or is it too late for that? Put a question - possible under "Any other business". Get a binding vote - not possible. > I'm assuming we can't > postpone the coming election, but could we ask the electorate to vote to > hold another election in 3 months? The board does not have to call AGMs or do elections. I don't know if legally it is too late to cancel the already-announced AGM and election but I guess we could simply do it - if we don't show up then there's no AGM. It would require a board decision. Board decisions require the agreement of four of the current board members (me, Kate, Matt, Henk, Oliver, Dermot) to happen via email. A telephone board meeting could also make the decision with three board members in favour but they require some setup time; I guess if I called a meeting today it should really be no earlier than Monday. If the AGM were to happen then section 31 of the AoA says that an election must take place but the board could still invoke section 35 of the AoA to reduce the number of seats up for election, and essentially make this an election of 0 seats. The AoA don't spell out how the members can dispose of the board but I guess a special resolution goes a long way, so if a General Meeting was called and the resolution properly announced then that meeting could do anything. The board can call a General Meeting anytime, and can be forced to do so if enough members request it. > If not, can we come up with some ideas for a way outside the formal AGM > structure to essentially poll the full membership that could be seen as > a legitimate representation of their wishes? My suggestion is to postpone the AGM and election until spring and find a person whom we all trust enough to arrange for that AGM, including any resolutions about the whole board leaving etc., together with our members. I've sent an email to the other board members about this but have so far only heard back from one of five. Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09" E008°23'33" ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Overpass turbo Has it been amended?
Currently, all features are available in both XML and QL variants, but
the most recent additions have only been announced and documented for
the QL language. I don't think that the XML language will be dumped
anytime soon. Maybe Roland can tell us more about his long-term plans
about deprecating the XML language.
Martin
On Fri, Oct 24, 2014 at 9:49 AM, Etienne Trimaille
wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Ok, so you recommend to use QL instead of XML. Is there some feature that
> are in QL and not in XML ?
> The XML will be maintained for how long ?
> and quickosm should switch from XML to QL in the short term ?
>
> 2014-10-23 16:29 GMT+02:00 Martin Raifer :
>>
>> Hi Dave,
>>
>> Yes. There was an update [0] today in which I've changed the wizard to
>> produce Overpass QL queries instead of the old XML-styled Overpass
>> language. This is maily because we wanted to be more consistent in
>> which query language should be the "recommended" one (see this ticket
>> on github [1]). There is more and more documentation and help material
>> available for the QL language, and advanced users seemed to have
>> always preferred it anyways. I know that the XML syntax was more
>> verbose, thus more easy to understand for beginners, but in long-term
>> it simply doesn't make sense to maintain two languages in parallel.
>>
>> > Also, Where are the saved queries stored? It's failing to load a couple
>> > of mine & I'd like to manually retrieve them if possible.
>>
>> This sounds like a bug. I've opened a ticket for that on github: [2].
>> Can you please try to open the developer tools in your browser (see
>> http://debugbrowser.com/ for instructions) and look if there any error
>> messages? If you have an account, please post anything to the github
>> ticket, otherwise please contact me directly.
>>
>> The saved queries are stored in your browser's "local Storage" which
>> you can usually also access via your browser's developer tools (look
>> out for a "Resources" tab).
>>
>> Bye,
>> Martin
>>
>> [0] https://github.com/tyrasd/overpass-ide/blob/master/CHANGELOG.md
>> [1] https://github.com/tyrasd/overpass-ide/issues/101
>> [2] https://github.com/tyrasd/overpass-ide/issues/106
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 23, 2014 at 3:36 PM, Dave F. wrote:
>> > Hi
>> >
>> > Has the wizard in Overpass Turbo been updated in the past couple of
>> > days, or
>> > have I somehow amend its way of working? Looked in the wiki but could
>> > see no
>> > mention.
>> >
>> > Wizard query of landuse=recreation_ground produces a much less verbose
>> > query
>> > (No 'query' or 'k=' etc)
>> >
>> > /*
>> > This has been generated by the overpass-turbo wizard.
>> > The original search was:
>> > “landuse=recreation_ground”
>> > */
>> > [out:json][timeout:25];
>> > // gather results
>> > (
>> > // query part for: “landuse=recreation_ground”
>> > node["landuse"="recreation_ground"]({{bbox}});
>> > way["landuse"="recreation_ground"]({{bbox}});
>> > relation["landuse"="recreation_ground"]({{bbox}});
>> > );
>> > // print results
>> > out body;
>> >>;
>> > out skel qt;
>> >
>> > Also, Where are the saved queries stored? It's failing to load a couple
>> > of
>> > mine & I'd like to manually retrieve them if possible.
>> >
>> > Cheers
>> > Dave F.
>> >
>> >
>> > ---
>> > This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus
>> > protection is active.
>> > http://www.avast.com
>> >
>> >
>> > ___
>> > talk mailing list
>> > talk@openstreetmap.org
>> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>>
>> ___
>> talk mailing list
>> talk@openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] GoPro video traces?
> Am 23.10.2014 um 20:24 schrieb David Cuenca : > > I have sent a couple of emails to action cam manufacturers requesting a > "distance lapse" function. I typically see higher offset/imprecision/"wandering around when standing still" on the phone GPS than what I think would make sense to set as distance between 2 photos. I'm on iPhone4S, maybe more recent phones do better, but I doubt it, as the antenna seems to be the main problem. cheers, Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Overpass turbo Has it been amended?
Hi,
Ok, so you recommend to use QL instead of XML. Is there some feature that
are in QL and not in XML ?
The XML will be maintained for how long ?
and quickosm should switch from XML to QL in the short term ?
2014-10-23 16:29 GMT+02:00 Martin Raifer :
> Hi Dave,
>
> Yes. There was an update [0] today in which I've changed the wizard to
> produce Overpass QL queries instead of the old XML-styled Overpass
> language. This is maily because we wanted to be more consistent in
> which query language should be the "recommended" one (see this ticket
> on github [1]). There is more and more documentation and help material
> available for the QL language, and advanced users seemed to have
> always preferred it anyways. I know that the XML syntax was more
> verbose, thus more easy to understand for beginners, but in long-term
> it simply doesn't make sense to maintain two languages in parallel.
>
> > Also, Where are the saved queries stored? It's failing to load a couple
> > of mine & I'd like to manually retrieve them if possible.
>
> This sounds like a bug. I've opened a ticket for that on github: [2].
> Can you please try to open the developer tools in your browser (see
> http://debugbrowser.com/ for instructions) and look if there any error
> messages? If you have an account, please post anything to the github
> ticket, otherwise please contact me directly.
>
> The saved queries are stored in your browser's "local Storage" which
> you can usually also access via your browser's developer tools (look
> out for a "Resources" tab).
>
> Bye,
> Martin
>
> [0] https://github.com/tyrasd/overpass-ide/blob/master/CHANGELOG.md
> [1] https://github.com/tyrasd/overpass-ide/issues/101
> [2] https://github.com/tyrasd/overpass-ide/issues/106
>
> On Thu, Oct 23, 2014 at 3:36 PM, Dave F. wrote:
> > Hi
> >
> > Has the wizard in Overpass Turbo been updated in the past couple of
> days, or
> > have I somehow amend its way of working? Looked in the wiki but could
> see no
> > mention.
> >
> > Wizard query of landuse=recreation_ground produces a much less verbose
> query
> > (No 'query' or 'k=' etc)
> >
> > /*
> > This has been generated by the overpass-turbo wizard.
> > The original search was:
> > “landuse=recreation_ground”
> > */
> > [out:json][timeout:25];
> > // gather results
> > (
> > // query part for: “landuse=recreation_ground”
> > node["landuse"="recreation_ground"]({{bbox}});
> > way["landuse"="recreation_ground"]({{bbox}});
> > relation["landuse"="recreation_ground"]({{bbox}});
> > );
> > // print results
> > out body;
> >>;
> > out skel qt;
> >
> > Also, Where are the saved queries stored? It's failing to load a couple
> of
> > mine & I'd like to manually retrieve them if possible.
> >
> > Cheers
> > Dave F.
> >
> >
> > ---
> > This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus
> > protection is active.
> > http://www.avast.com
> >
> >
> > ___
> > talk mailing list
> > talk@openstreetmap.org
> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>
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[OSM-talk] Postponing elections, or other alternatives (Was: Modus operandi of the board)
As Paul said, leaving aside any merits of this (there are plenty of other threads going on to discuss that), can we have some brainstorming on the mechanics of how it might work? There have been a few suggestions for ways to essentially "reboot" the board, but I am not familiar enough with the bylaws/AoA to know how we might go about doing it. Is there *any* mechanism to put a new question to the full membership in the upcoming election, or is it too late for that? I'm assuming we can't postpone the coming election, but could we ask the electorate to vote to hold another election in 3 months? If not, can we come up with some ideas for a way outside the formal AGM structure to essentially poll the full membership that could be seen as a legitimate representation of their wishes? Any other ideas are welcome, or anyone who is more familiar with the AoA, please chime in. (I probably can't dive into them until this weekend) On Oct 24, 2014 9:20 AM, "Paul Norman" wrote: > On Oct 23, 2014, at 03:00 PM, Clifford Snow > wrote: > > I think it is reasonable postpone elections for three months considering > current turmoil. > > > Leaving aside any question about the merits of this, I don't believe it is > possible. Notice has been given of the AGM, and an election must be held at > the AGM (AOA 31). > ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Osmf-talk] Modus operandi of the board
On Oct 23, 2014, at 03:00 PM, Clifford Snow wrote: I think it is reasonable postpone elections for three months considering current turmoil. Leaving aside any question about the merits of this, I don't believe it is possible. Notice has been given of the AGM, and an election must be held at the AGM (AOA 31). ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
