date:20160712

Re: [Talk-it] relazione per linea autobus e rotonde

2016-07-12 Thread Federico Cortese

2016-07-12 23:00 GMT+02:00 mbranco :
> Scusa, mi riferivo all'algoritmo del motore di routing, che quindi è un
> post-processing dei dati OSM.
> Ho scritto un programmino per calcolare il profilo altimetrico di itinerari
> OSM (tipicamente hiking e bike),  e in effetti avevo posto il vincolo di
> avere impostati come ruoli backward e forward per ogni way, in modo da
> calcolare correttamente i dislivelli.
> Dopo questa discussione però ho capito come migliorarlo, calcolando in
> automatico il verso di percorrenza di ogni way :)
>
Grande! Sarebbe stato utilissimo qualcosa del genere per ricavare gli
shapes dei GTFS del trasporto pubblico partendo da OSM.
Qualcosa c'era, ma usava il vecchio schema, quindi aveva bisogno dei
soliti backward/forward.
Poi ho risolto in un modo manuale un po' artigianale, ma uno script
che scarichi la relazione e crei lo shapes.txt sarebbe carino.
Ciao
Federico

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Re: [OSM-talk] Automated edits code of conduct

2016-07-12 Thread Nicolás Alvarez

2016-07-12 23:08 GMT-03:00 tuxayo :
> On 12/07/2016 09:53, Christoph Hormann wrote:
>> I would suggest to look at things more in terms of consistency - OSM is
>> all about local knowledge and mappers mapping their day-to-day
>> environment.  It is inconsistent with this aim to allow others to mess
>> around in this local mapping through automated edits without looking at
>> individual features one by one.
>
> Automated edits should also have a place. For thing like pure tagging
> errors:
>   - URLs lacking "https://; prefix
>   - leading and trailing spaces in names
>   - common, obvious and non ambiguous typos
> The error probability is almost null (error in script or typo?)

When I searched for typos and leading and trailing spaces in my area,
I found lots of unrelated wrong things. For example, many objects with
trailing spaces in the names were "my house is here" nodes. Or roads
including the name of the political administration that was around
when the road was built (typical political bullshit that appears in
signs sometimes, but it's *not* the name of the road).

Checking them one by one was a great idea.

-- 
Nicolás

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Re: [OSM-talk] Automated edits code of conduct

2016-07-12 Thread tuxayo

On 12/07/2016 09:53, Christoph Hormann wrote:
> I would suggest to look at things more in terms of consistency - OSM is 
> all about local knowledge and mappers mapping their day-to-day 
> environment.  It is inconsistent with this aim to allow others to mess 
> around in this local mapping through automated edits without looking at 
> individual features one by one.

Automated edits should also have a place. For thing like pure tagging
errors:
  - URLs lacking "https://; prefix
  - leading and trailing spaces in names
  - common, obvious and non ambiguous typos
The error probability is almost null (error in script or typo?)

And then there are things like:
  - renaming a ministry (that was renamed) which was used in operator tags
  - renaming a electricity network operator
  - adding the leaf type of a precise specie where there is absolutely
no doubt and ambiguity on it's leaf type.
  - a whole bike sharing network closes in a city → deletions of station
nodes
  - a brand changed it's name country wide and after few months when the
physical renaming seem to have been completely deployed → Mass renaming

There is a cursor where more and more semantic and subjectivity is
involved and the risk of error increase. But we need many of these kinds
of clean up so the base doesn't rot. And of course prior discussion and
after work review are necessary to ensure that the edit is not replacing
errors by other ones.

---

On 12/07/2016 14:35, Frederik Ramm wrote:
> For example, a few years ago we had a user called "worst-fixer" or so
> who did a couple of large-scale edits removing the "created-by" tag. Now
> this was a mechanical edit against the rules, and there was a consensus
> in the community to remove those unwanted tags piecemeal instead of
> creating a new version for hundreds of thousands of objects, needlessly.
> 
> Strictly enforcing rules would have meant reverting all these edits but
> that would have been quite silly (causing another extra version to be
> created), so they were allowed to stand.

If we (still) accept such edits to be undiscussed then it's difficult to
draw the line with other edits that are unambiguously backed by the wiki
which would also give the impression of community consensus. And there
were case of revert of such edits.
Would a more just approach (in the case of a first incident) could be to
systematically ask(even in a case such as "created-by" tag) the
contributor to quickly open a discussion to call for review of the edit?
That would limit the frustration of first-time mass edit conflict (by
showing a simple solution to avoid revert(is discussion validates it))
and still ensure that the contributor will discuss it's edits in the future.

> Having a DWG whose legitimacy comes from rules would allow everyone to
> start endless discussions about DWG's interpretation of the rules, or
> finding loopholes in the wording.

Alright, I agree, in fact that already seem to happen to some extend.

Should DWG members intervene as DWG members? At least when blocking
power is not needed. During complicated discussions, it seem to happen
that the DWG members mention their belonging. Which could help as the
moderator status can give legitimacy, but the legitimacy of the status
can be questioned by controversial choices due to lack of time or simply
error. And more importantly, it makes the contributor forget that it
faces another contributor that is also volunteering to do QA. I think
the last point should be emphasized avoid a police to infringer
relationship. Because is these situations, were are all damn janitors
trying to clean or avoid mess. :)

> Perhaps we could make JOSM cleverer in detecting such cases and alerting
> people to the rules. JOSM already pops up tons of warnings - about
> moving lots of nodes, about displaced aerial imagery, etc. - it could
> also say "you're changing a lot of objects over a geographically large
> area at the same time and you haven't zoomed in on any, are you sure you
> have read the rules..."

That's actually a great idea! Even something as simple as a message when
first using the search and replace would be efficient.
*Who have the time to open a ticket?*
https://josm.openstreetmap.de/newticket

Are there any other common places where first time mass edits could be
performed without passing by the wiki?

> tuxayo:
>> The reporting of AECoC violations could be done in a dedicated open
>> mailing list so we could have accountability about how these issues are
>> handled.
>> *Any thoughts about this? This is a concrete proposal.*
> 
> DWG is happy about every case that the community manages to handle
> between themselves, without DWG having to get involved. If such a
> mailing list would help taking some of the load off DWG's shoulders and
> DWG would then only deal with those cases that the community can't
> handle or where things aren't clear enough, sure that would be great.

Alright, the steps that come to my mind to try to setup this are:

- Draft

Re: [Talk-es] Aprovechar el Opendata de Vilanova i la Geltrú

2016-07-12 Thread yo paseopor

Sorry, le di a enviar antes de adjuntar la traducción :
"Términos de la licencia Creative Commons Reconocimiento (CC-BY 3.0), que
permite:

- Que se puedan copiar, distribuir y divulgar públicamente

- Que puedan servir de base a obras derivadas como resultado de su análisis
o estudio

- Que puedan ser utilizadas con fines comerciales o no comerciales, siempre
que el uso no constituya una actividad administrativa pública

- Que se puedan modificar, transformar y adaptar

- Que se tenga que citar la autoría del Ayuntamiento de Vilanova y la
Geltrú (tal como se indica más adelante)


Términos de la licencia Creative Commons Reconocimiento - SinObraDerivada
(CC BY-ND 3.0) que permite:

- Que se puedan copiar, distribuir y divulgar públicamente

- Que puedan ser utilizados con fines comerciales o no comerciales, siempre
que el uso no constituya una actividad administrativa pública

- Que se puedan modificar, transformar y adaptar

- Que se tenga que citar la autoría de los datos "

Salut i mapes
yopaseopor

>
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Re: [Talk-es] Aprovechar el Opendata de Vilanova i la Geltrú

2016-07-12 Thread yo paseopor

Tal y como se puede leer en
http://opendata.vilanova.cat/normesus#llicencia_cat entiendo que :

"Termes de la llicència Creative Commons Reconeixement (CC-BY 3.0),
 que permet:

- que es puguin copiar, distribuir i divulgar públicament

- que puguin servir de base a obres derivades com a resultat de la seva
anàlisi o estudi

- que puguin ser utilitzades amb fins comercials o no comercials, sempre
que l'ús no constitueixi una activitat administrativa pública

- que es puguin modificar, transformar i adaptar

- que s'hagi de citar l'autoria de l'Ajuntament de Vilanova i la Geltrú
(tal com s'indica més endavant)

Termes de la llicència Creative Commons Reconeixement - Sense Obra Derivada
(CC BY-ND 3.0) 
que permet:

- que es puguin copiar, distribuir i divulgar públicament

- que puguin ser utilitzats amb fins comercials o no comercials, sempre que
l'ús no constitueixi una activitat administrativa pública

- que es puguin modificar, transformar i adaptar

- que s'hagi de citar l'autoria de les dades"


Salut i mapes

yopaseopor
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Re: [Talk-es] Aprovechar el Opendata de Vilanova i la Geltrú

2016-07-12 Thread Rafael Avila Coya


Quería decir:

Para los datos "directori" (Puntos De Interés), pone Llicència -> 
License not specified


Bona nit,

Rafael.

On 13/07/16 01:35, yo paseopor wrote:

Buenas!

Me han informado de que el ayuntamiento de mi ciudad tiene ya disponible
varios datos abiertos que podrían ser revisables e importables.
En concreto sería interesante el directorio. Por lo que he visto está
bastante actualizado y los datos son válidos.

Los datos los podeis encontrar aquí:
http://opendata.vilanova.cat

PD:Estoy creando la página de la wiki para hacer la importación, en
breve la tendré disponible
PD2: Me imagino que ayuntamientos de tamaño similar (65000 hab.) tendrán
datos como estos disponibles ya en abierto (gracias Ley de
Transparencia), animo a revisar/trabajar/importar no sólo conjuntos de
las grandes capitales sino de ciudades más pequeñas.

Salut i mapes
yopaseopor


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Re: [Talk-es] Aprovechar el Opendata de Vilanova i la Geltrú

2016-07-12 Thread Rafael Avila Coya


Hola:

¿Cuál es la licencia de los datos? No me queda clara.

Un saludo,

Rafael.

On 13/07/16 01:35, yo paseopor wrote:

Buenas!

Me han informado de que el ayuntamiento de mi ciudad tiene ya disponible
varios datos abiertos que podrían ser revisables e importables.
En concreto sería interesante el directorio. Por lo que he visto está
bastante actualizado y los datos son válidos.

Los datos los podeis encontrar aquí:
http://opendata.vilanova.cat

PD:Estoy creando la página de la wiki para hacer la importación, en
breve la tendré disponible
PD2: Me imagino que ayuntamientos de tamaño similar (65000 hab.) tendrán
datos como estos disponibles ya en abierto (gracias Ley de
Transparencia), animo a revisar/trabajar/importar no sólo conjuntos de
las grandes capitales sino de ciudades más pequeñas.

Salut i mapes
yopaseopor


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[Talk-es] Aprovechar el Opendata de Vilanova i la Geltrú

2016-07-12 Thread yo paseopor

Buenas!

Me han informado de que el ayuntamiento de mi ciudad tiene ya disponible
varios datos abiertos que podrían ser revisables e importables.
En concreto sería interesante el directorio. Por lo que he visto está
bastante actualizado y los datos son válidos.

Los datos los podeis encontrar aquí:
http://opendata.vilanova.cat

PD:Estoy creando la página de la wiki para hacer la importación, en breve
la tendré disponible
PD2: Me imagino que ayuntamientos de tamaño similar (65000 hab.) tendrán
datos como estos disponibles ya en abierto (gracias Ley de Transparencia),
animo a revisar/trabajar/importar no sólo conjuntos de las grandes
capitales sino de ciudades más pequeñas.

Salut i mapes
yopaseopor
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Re: [OSM-talk] What3words

2016-07-12 Thread Jóhannes Birgir Jensson


Hello Tim.

Admirable post although I'm wondering if I'm often perplexed according 
to your very first sentence?


Perplexion is at the vitriol - I myself - being a programmer who strives 
to be more civil than my nature would naturally be - understand the 
factual criticism levelled at what3words but the vitriol that follows it 
is the perplexing part. What3fucks and What3shits sort of deem 
themselves in their elegance.


You can deem something unusable but standing over someone and hitting 
them in the face telling them that this thing is shit is a mark of 
vitriol which is uncalled for. By all means level the factual critique 
and why your ideology is uncomfortable with it but do so in a civil 
manner. As for aggressive marketing I've never seen it personally but of 
course I'm not in a major market, are they running full size banners, 
spreads in broadsheets and TV ads?


I also have to correct a factual error - the user of the mobile app does 
not need to have an active internet connection - a GPS signal is enough 
to get the location - they however lose the background map itself (since 
it is Google). I've just tested by taking my phone offline - the app 
contains the algorithm to calculate and I could pinpoint my position and 
scroll around it to get other w3w's.


I personally have no stake in What3Words, I met its founder in Iceland a 
while back and we had a chat about it and his vision. I like the 
problems it is trying to solve, I see why it is proprietary and whilst 
not ideal I fully acknowledge why they would keep it that way. Some of 
the things levelled at it here were addressed in my chat - for example 
adjacent points having completely different words - that is by design 
and is similar to the last 4 digits of the OLP approach which has 
previously been lauded.


Tim does an elegant job in his post to address the issue of making 
money. One thing I want to address though is the OSM angle - I don't 
know of What3Words putting any pressure on OSM, I know some apps that 
build on OSM also incorporate W3W but that is totally outside OSM.


Many of us are geogeeks and as such any geomatters, like geocoding, are 
of interest. But are they of interest to OSM itself and this list? Not 
really in my opinion unless W3W are actually pushing into OSM space.



--Jói


Þann 12.7.2016 20:22, skrifaði Tim Waters:

Heather and folks who are often perplexed,

are you actually perplexed or do you understand but disagree? I ask
because I have heard some mappers say the opposite: "I don't
understand why people would choose w3w!!11". Is it a turn of phrase?
Or a genuine plea for illumination? I often disagree with blind
vitriol, but I try to understand why it exists. The words we say often
give different responses. For example in the UK many people said "I
don't understand why people voted for Brexit" and some of them
genuinely did not know of any reasons why people voted that way
(filter bubble doesnt help), whilst others said that phrase, but could
understand why others voted that way but simply disagreed with the
reasons. Some people simply could not put themselves in the
oppositions shoes. The cognitive dissonance hurts too much.  I
therefore think its not just a turn of phrase for all. So here's a
response which I hope covers both angles:

In this example of w3w should the OSM community or the OSM Foundation
provide reasons why people disagree to help those who do not
understand community responses to product, or, should the OSM
Community or the OSM Foundation communicate better so that differences
of opinion are valued and can coexist with each other? Should reasons
on both sides be listed, or should we work so that blind vitriol and
anti vitriol statements be lowered? Is the problem the thing, or is it
that the thing cannot be easily understood?

Personally, I like w3w, I don't think the promise to release the code
if it goes belly up means anything. Contracts and terms of conditions
can be changed whenever, and it looks like they are aiming to be
acquired. Also, if they are successful it would never be released, so
why should we wait for it? They are VC funded, after all so they want
to grow and get a profit. I disagree mostly with the proprietary 3rd
party access. It's not open and not the OSM way. Its a proprietary
gatekeeper of information, something diametrically opposed to our
little mapping project. Would someone say the proceeding few sentences
was vitriolic? I don't think so. Critical yes. Was it offensive? Maybe
their investors don't like it, but I think it should be allowed to be
said, right?

However, I also disagree with criticism from mappers directed at
Mongolia which is patronising at best. To go with w3w is similar to
any proprietary software contract, which big businesses and big
countries do every day. It's not something I would promote generally,
it's not an open way forward is it? However it gives people jobs, and
its the money making capitalist world we live in. I believe w3w

Re: [OSM-co] Invitación a colaborar en la tarea #26 - Guapi, Cauca, Colombia

2016-07-12 Thread Fredy Rivera

Gracias Kaxtillo por la invitación, ya estoy trabajando en la tarea.

Les pido el favor a los maperos que saquen un poco de tiempo y
colaboren con esta tarea que es muy importante por los alcances que
tiene y por que contrataron un drone especialmente para tomar las
imágenes a 15cm por pixel con que vamos a trabajar.

Esta muy divertido mapear Guapi.
Pueden poner de música de fondo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4CBSmq0PJE


2016-07-12 15:02 GMT-05:00 carlos felipe castillo :
> Saludos maperos, buen día.
>
> Mi nombre es Carlos Felipe Castillo, voluntario de OSM. Actualmente estoy
> liderando el proyecto de datos geográficos abiertos para la prevención de la
> Malaria en el municipio de Guapi, ubicado en las costas del Pacífico
> colombiano. Guapi ingresa a la vanguardia en la lucha mundial contra la
> malaria, iniciando la histórica batalla de pre - eliminación de esta
> patología en zonas de baja transmisión.
>
> La iniciativa de pre-eliminación de la malaria es una lucha conjunta entre
> la Secretaria de Salud Departamental del Cauca (SSDC), la Universidad
> Nacional de Colombia (UNAL) y el Wellcome Trust Sanger Institute, quienes
> han contactado al proyecto Openstreetmap Colombia y pedido ayuda en la
> realización de un mapa integral de las edificaciones de Guapi, para ayudar a
> su trabajo de campo en 2016, como parte del proyecto "Herramientas,
> formación y redes encaminadas a disminuir la carga por malaria en Colombia".
> Al ayudar al trazado de las edificaciones en el mapa se puede jugar un papel
> fundamental en el esfuerzo para el control y la pre-eliminación de la
> malaria en Guapi a finales de 2016, una enfermedad que causa la muerte a más
> de un millón de personas al año en el mundo.
>
> Haz parte de este increíble esfuerzo para iniciar la lucha de pre
> eliminación de la malaria en Guapi, te invito a mapear algunas edificaciones
> en la tarea #26 http://tareas.openstreetmap.co/project/26
>
> Gracias.
>
>
>
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Re: [Talk-it] Mancata attribuzione App Quechua Tracking

2016-07-12 Thread Andrea Lattmann

Perfetto! 
Eppure non mi sembra una richiesta esosa attribuire ad OSM, sembra che gli 
chiediamo il mondo! 


Andrea Lattmann

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Re: [Talk-it] Mancata attribuzione App Quechua Tracking

2016-07-12 Thread Cascafico Giovanni

Ho scritto all'autore, bertrand.czai...@quechua.com

"It looks like your application doesn't attribute correctly
Openstreetmap, as required. Please, visit
http://www.openstreetmap.org/copyright;

Passo successivo, come consigliato da GooglePlay [1], sarà il takedown [2].


[1] https://play.google.com/about/ip-deception-spam/
[2] https://support.google.com/googleplay/android-developer/contact/takedown

Il 12 luglio 2016 23:15, Andrea Lattmann  ha scritto:
>>Non ci fa bella figura nessuno, non noi, che passiamo quasi per dei
>>freakkettoni trasandati, ma nemmeno loro: se le mappe OSM sono così
>>scarse,
>>perché diavolo le hanno scelte, forse solo perché sono "gratuite"?
>
> Ed aggiungo: se proprio sono così scarse perché vendono le aree che vuoi 
> scaricare?
>
> Io gli mando una mail per richiedere il rispetto del copyright! Vediamo cosa 
> mi dicono. Credo che sia chiaro di come si attribuisce ad OSM... Il bello è 
> che non si fidano, violano il copyright e le vendono pure! Non ho parole...
> Gliela scrivo la mail e me la faccio tradurre in francese dalla mia dolce 
> metà. Vi tengo informati!
>
> Andrea Lattmann
>
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Re: [Talk-it] Mancata attribuzione App Quechua Tracking

2016-07-12 Thread Andrea Lattmann

>Non ci fa bella figura nessuno, non noi, che passiamo quasi per dei
>freakkettoni trasandati, ma nemmeno loro: se le mappe OSM sono così
>scarse,
>perché diavolo le hanno scelte, forse solo perché sono "gratuite"?

Ed aggiungo: se proprio sono così scarse perché vendono le aree che vuoi 
scaricare?

Io gli mando una mail per richiedere il rispetto del copyright! Vediamo cosa mi 
dicono. Credo che sia chiaro di come si attribuisce ad OSM... Il bello è che 
non si fidano, violano il copyright e le vendono pure! Non ho parole... 
Gliela scrivo la mail e me la faccio tradurre in francese dalla mia dolce metà. 
Vi tengo informati!

Andrea Lattmann

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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Tag 'network' et 'name' pour une relation de type route départementale

2016-07-12 Thread Philippe Verdy

> Le 12 juillet 2016 à 11:13, Art Penteur  a écrit :
>
>>   Donc, si on juge souhaitable de relationiser les routes
>> départementales, mon avis est qu'il faut créer un nouveau type de
>> relation. Je propose admin_ref :
>>
>> Quelque chose comme :
>>
>> Relation
>> type=admin_ref
>> admin_ref=road
>> admin_level=6
>> ref=D 321
>
> Et tu mets quoi comme valeur admin_level pour les routes communautaires ou
métropolitaines (hormi la métropole de Lyon qui est au niveau 6 comme les
départements) :
"admin_level=7" (puisqu'il n'y a pas de routes d'arrondissement, ni non
plus de route cantonale car pas de collectivité à ces niveaux) ?
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Re: [Talk-it] Suddivisioni di Roma

2016-07-12 Thread Fayor Uno


CI sono regole diverse per ogni Stato, in conseguenza della propria esperienza 
di decentramento. Se in Germania è previsto che sia così, con admin_level 9 per 
le prime suddivisioni municipali e 10 per le successive, in Italia si è 
stabilito di usare il 10 per le circoscrizioni o equivalenti, uniche 
suddivisioni possibili del comune.
Sarebbe pensabile un livello ulteriore, 11, ma non il 9 (altrimenti si 
dovrebbero cambiare il livello a tutte le circoscrizioni delle altre città).


Anche se non c'è il tag alternativo per i confini di queste entità (che 
peraltro, ripeto, non sono suddivisioni dei municipi ma seguono criteri 
diversi), la soluzione di usare place=quartier è fattibile



Da: Davio 
Inviato: martedì 12 luglio 2016 20.48
A: talk-it@openstreetmap.org
Oggetto: Re: [Talk-it] Suddivisioni di Roma

Ciao,

All'estero i quartieri sono mappati nello stesso modo, usando il tag
administrative, come a Berlino.

Non essendoci un valido tag alternativo, può rimanere questo.



-
Davide
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View this message in context: 
http://gis.19327.n5.nabble.com/Suddivisioni-di-Roma-tp5878082p5878096.html

Italy General - Suddivisioni di 
Roma
gis.19327.n5.nabble.com
Suddivisioni di Roma. Roma è suddivisa, dal punto di vista toponomastico, in 
120 entità. Queste si distinguono nominalmente in rioni (22), quartieri (35), 
suburbi (6) e zone (53), ma hanno la...



Sent from the Italy General mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

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Re: [Talk-it] relazione per linea autobus e rotonde

2016-07-12 Thread mbranco

Scusa, mi riferivo all'algoritmo del motore di routing, che quindi è un
post-processing dei dati OSM.
Ho scritto un programmino per calcolare il profilo altimetrico di itinerari
OSM (tipicamente hiking e bike),  e in effetti avevo posto il vincolo di
avere impostati come ruoli backward e forward per ogni way, in modo da
calcolare correttamente i dislivelli.
Dopo questa discussione però ho capito come migliorarlo, calcolando in
automatico il verso di percorrenza di ogni way :)



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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Tag 'network' et 'name' pour une relation de type route départementale

2016-07-12 Thread Philippe Verdy

Le 12 juillet 2016 à 11:29, Romain MEHUT  a écrit :

> Autre problème : une "route" (au sens actuel dans OSM : càd un
>> itinéraire) doit être continue : un bus ne "saute" pas d'une portion
>> de route à une autre.  Une départementale n'est pas systématiquement
>> continue : elle s'interrompt souvent sur quelques centaines de mètres
>> (ou quelques kilomètres) qu'elle "partage" avec une autre route
>> (souvent, seul le numéro le plus pett est conservé), puis reprend à un
>> carrefour un peu plus loin
>>
>
Oui mais même dans ce cas, l'interruption n'est que pour le numéro de
référence: les panneaux directionnels mentionnent le trajet à suivre pour
retrouver la route plus loin... Il y a bien un itinéraire, même si la route
elle-même change de référence ou n'en a plus (exemple sur un rond-point qui
est partagé par toutes les toutes qui s'y connectent, et géré par une des
collectivités qui gère une des routes qui s'y connecte, souvent la
collectivité la plus grande qui a intrêt à conserver la non interruption de
ce parcours même si elle négocie avec les autres).

Quand une commune veut faire un rond-point sur une départementale pour y
connecter une rue résidentielle ou un boulevard, elle ne le fait pas seule
comme elle veut. Il peut arriver même que ce soit la commuen qui finalement
gère ce rond-point pourtant encore utilisé pour assurer la continuit de la
départementale...

Les départementales ne sont peut-être pas continues de bout en bout et pas
empreintées sur la totalité du parcours, il n'empêche qu'elles sont conçues
comme des itinéraires continus reliant deux points désignés, il ne peut pas
y avoir d'interruption, sauf par une autre départementale (gérée par le
même département, voire un département voisin en zone frontalière, chacun
des deux départements ayant son intérêt à préserver la continuit du
parcours, dans leur plan général de circulation, de même les
intercommunalités dans leurs SDU qui sont concertés entre les communes et
départements voire même plusieurs régions et mê mdes communes d'autres
intercommunalités là encore dans les zones frontalières).

La logique est bien celle d'un schéma de transport avec des itinéraires
prédéfinis, balisés tout au long du parcours (même si localement un numéro
change de numéro parce qu'une autre collectivité s'occupe de cette
section). En fin de compte le numéro de ref=* est une donnée purement
locale (qui en plus n'indique pas réellement le type de route, sa capacité
ou son adéquation dans un schéma de transport).

Cela mérite donc une relation pour collecter ces parcours privilégiés (le
fait qu'on ne les emprunte pas de bout en bout n'est pas significatif, ce
qui compte c'est que ce parcours est privilégié entre deux points
suffisamment éloignés sur ce parcours et qu'alors les considérations
purement locales n'ont pas d'importance réelle). Mieux, ces relations
seraient un excellent moyen de chercher des itinéraires en privilégiant les
autoroutes (si l'usager accepte le péage), puis les nationales, puis les
départementales, puis les métropolitaines, puis les grand axes communaux,
puis les dessertes locales (routes résidentielles ou chemins).

Actuellemetn on en est encore à chercher des itinéraires en se basant sur
des déocupages de proche en proche mais sur n'importe quel point, même si
ça passe par des routes petites routes ou chemins. en cherchant à aller au
plus court, mais la distance la plus courte ou la plus proche de la ligne
droite est assez peu significative des trajets à suivre, et les temps de
parcours sont difficiles à estimer. Alors qu'en pratique on cherche tous à
passer par des axes privilégiés, de plus grande capacité, mieux entretenus
(en principe) et plus sûrs, avec moins de relief, plsu de panneaux
indicateurs...

Les communes aussi sont intéressées pour privilégier la circulation
périphérique plutôt que par les centre-villes congestionnés et où il y a
plus de piétons et de vélos et où la nuisance sonore ou la pollution est
moins bien tolérée. Ces itinéraires privilégiés sont nettement marqués sur
le terrain avec des panneaux qui peuvent souvent vous indiquer d'aller
d'abord en contre-sens de votre direction finale, juste pour éviter les
secteurs centraux et passer par une rocade extérieure ou un boulevard
péri-urbain.

Bref il y a une logique à ces itinéraires, et ce n'est pas celle des ref=*
purement locaux, qui changent souvent uniquement parce que les
collectivités (ou l'Etat voire des exploitants privés à qui cela a été
concédé) s'en transfèrent la gestion de l'une à l'autre. Je vois mal
comment faire pour modéliser ça avec juste des ref=* sans relation pour
rassembler aussi les morceaux manquants... Et dans ce cas les relation
type=route sont appropriées (avec route=road pour les distinguer des routes
de bus, voire "route=truck" pour les itinéraires poids-lourds,
"route=road-bis"? pour les itinéraires de délestage... voir aussi les
autres itinéraires pédestres ou cyclistes, à vocation touristique ou

Re: [Talk-at] Bankomatgebühren

2016-07-12 Thread Michael Reichert

Hallo,

Am 12.07.2016 um 22:46 schrieb Florian Polin:
> Ich wäre etwas vorsichtiger. Es scheint nicht immer und auf jede Transaktion 
> zu zutreffen.
> Siehe: https://twitter.com/v4sch/status/752861388603883520
> 
> Weiters: In Deutschland sind Gebühren für Bargeldbehebungen ja keine 
> Besonderheit, taggen die deutschen Kollegen das auch irgendwie ?

In Deutschland wird das nicht getaggt. Eine Bank ist meist Mitglied
irgendeines Verbandes – es gibt einen für die Volks- und
Raiffeisenbanken, einen der Sparkassen (mit Landesbanken) und noch
weitere, die ich nicht kenne. Als Sparkassenkunde kann man
deutschlandweit bei allen Automaten aus dem Sparkassenverbund
gebührenfrei abheben. Wenn ich jedoch als Sparkassenkunde am
Volksbankautomat abheben würde, dann würde man mir eine Gebühr berechnen.

Daher: Taggt den Betreiber (in Deutschland üblich) und lasst den Rest
die Auswerter machen. Oder mappt ihr in Österreich die
Gültigkeitsbereich von irgendwelchen besonderen Fahrkarten? Das höchste
der Gefühle sind hoffentlich die Verkehrsverbundsgebiete als
boundary-Relationen.

Viele Grüße

Michael


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[talk-latam] Datos de OSM para eliminar la malaria (Invitación a colaborar en la tarea #26 - Guapi, Cauca, Colombia)

2016-07-12 Thread hyan...@gmail.com

Hola maperos de latinoamerica!

La región está enfocada en erradicar la Malaria
 y
los datos geográficos abiertos juegan un rol clave en ese propósito, es por
esto que la Secretaría de Salud del Cauca, departamento localizado en la
húmeda costa del pacífico colombiano, ha confiado en los datos de OSM para
la mejor planeación logística en campo.

A la vez que con tus trazos contribuyes a que las labores de campo sean más
precisas y pertinentes, vas a encontrar una preciosa imagen aérea de
15cm/px, que la disfruten!

Feliz mapeo,

Humberto Yances

PD: Si además compartes esto con colegas y otros maperos genial!  Seguro
que también compartiremos sobre las experiencias en campo luego de
completar el proyecto.
-- Mensaje reenviado --
De: "carlos felipe castillo" 
Fecha: jul. 12, 2016 3:03 PM
Asunto: [OSM-co] Invitación a colaborar en la tarea #26 - Guapi, Cauca,
Colombia
Para: "OpenStreetMap Colombia" 
Cc:

Saludos maperos, buen día.

Mi nombre es Carlos Felipe Castillo, voluntario de OSM. Actualmente estoy
liderando el proyecto de datos geográficos abiertos para la prevención de
la Malaria en el municipio de Guapi
, ubicado en las
costas del Pacífico colombiano. Guapi ingresa a la vanguardia en la lucha
mundial contra la malaria, iniciando la histórica batalla de pre -
eliminación de esta patología en zonas de baja transmisión.

La iniciativa de pre-eliminación de la malaria es una lucha conjunta entre
la Secretaria de Salud Departamental del Cauca (SSDC), la Universidad
Nacional de Colombia (UNAL) y el Wellcome Trust Sanger Institute, quienes
han contactado al proyecto Openstreetmap Colombia y pedido ayuda en la
realización de un mapa integral de las edificaciones de Guapi, para ayudar
a su trabajo de campo en 2016, como parte del proyecto "Herramientas,
formación y redes encaminadas a disminuir la carga por malaria en
Colombia". Al ayudar al trazado de las edificaciones en el mapa se puede
jugar un papel fundamental en el esfuerzo para el control y la
pre-eliminación de la malaria en Guapi a finales de 2016, una enfermedad
que causa la muerte a más de un millón de personas al año en el mundo.

Haz parte de este increíble esfuerzo para iniciar la lucha de pre
eliminación de la malaria en Guapi, te invito a mapear algunas
edificaciones en la tarea #26 http://tareas.openstreetmap.co/project/26

Gracias.


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Re: [Talk-at] Bankomatgebühren

2016-07-12 Thread Florian Polin

Ich wäre etwas vorsichtiger. Es scheint nicht immer und auf jede Transaktion zu 
zutreffen.
Siehe: https://twitter.com/v4sch/status/752861388603883520

Weiters: In Deutschland sind Gebühren für Bargeldbehebungen ja keine 
Besonderheit, taggen die deutschen Kollegen das auch irgendwie ?

On 12/07/16 22:37, "Thomas Flandera"  wrote:

Für mich stellt sich jetzt aber eher die Frage:

Trage ich die Bankomaten ein und schicke Leute dort hin - in der 
Hoffnung, dass sie fee=yes auswerten - oder entferne ich diese gem. der 
Liste, dass diese keiner mehr findet - hinterlasse aber dafür einen POI 
mit dem Hinweis (note), dass das ein "Wuchermat" ist?

Oder editiere ich nur bereits eingetragene Geräte mit dem Zusatz "fee=yes"?

Fällt mir gerade sehr schwer, das zu entscheiden...

Am 12.07.2016 um 21:24 schrieb Friedrich Volkmann:
> Wer hat Lust, fee=yes auf alle Euronet-Bankomaten zu setzen?
>
> Liste: 
> https://www.girokonto.at/info/erster_betreiber_fuehrt_bankomatgebuehr_in_oesterreich_ein
>
> PS: Dass die Gebühren so halten werden, bezweifle ich. Der Hinweis im 
> Kleingedruckten erst unterhalb vom Annehmen-Button ist eine Form von 
> Betrug, und die erstbeste Klage dagegen wird Erfolg haben.
>

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Re: [OSM-talk] What3words

2016-07-12 Thread Paul Johnson

On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 11:13 AM, Frank Villaro-Dixon <
fr...@villaro-dixon.eu> wrote:

> More importantly, the system is completely "brain-inefficient". If
> everybody adopted this system you would then have to remember all the codes
> for all the places whereas of now you don't need to. Your brain only
> remembers the road and then a number for each house.

It gets worse:  Which *language* of W3W are you using and which one do the
locals at that place know?  Now it's what six words, English and Mongolian,
right?  But now Wang Wu has a box of widgets he needs to send there, and I
don't have an ear for it so he could be Mandarin or Cantonese.  What twelve
words?  But then they've enlisted Juan Pelotes and plan on flying him in
from Argentina to put the whole project together.  What fifteen words.
Good luck getting a common match between any of them to describe the same
spot.

The way I see it, it takes a simple problem and tries to make it simpler,
but at the same time, as soon as you start talking about a situation in
which language commonality is not a given, the whole thing makes you
understand the simple elegance of latitude and longitude, particularly in
decimal form.
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Re: [Talk-cz] WeeklyOSM CZ 310

2016-07-12 Thread Alena Malá

Ahoj,
CHKO Kokořínsko - Máchův kraj, už jsem to jednou posílala, ale raději ještě
sem

Máchův kraj jsem včera ručně naklikala podle katastrálních map z AOPK
(práce to byla na 12 hodin) ale možná to bude potřeba ještě "učesat" nejsem
v tom zatím až tak zběhlá

Chci se pustit do CHKO BRDY, ale nevím jak do toho, nejlíp asi smazat tu
původní CHKO a vytvořit novou podle aktuálních map z AOPK

Alena - OK2APY

Dne 12. července 2016 16:15 Marián Kyral  napsal(a):

> Ahoj,
> mně to jede. Asi zase problém s mixed content:
> https://github.com/osmcz/osmcz/issues/129#issuecomment-225092543
>
> Tomáš už nasadil https, tak až to Pavel nahraje na produkci, tak už to
> snad konečně přestane blbnout.
>
> Marián
>
> -- Původní zpráva --
> Od: Miroslav Suchy 
> Komu: talk-cz@openstreetmap.org
> Datum: 12. 7. 2016 9:48:50
> Předmět: Re: [Talk-cz] WeeklyOSM CZ 310
>
> Dne 12.7.2016 v 09:04 Tom Ka napsal(a):
> > Téma čísla: Nevyužité fotky rozcestníků
>
> Když už to je jako téma: Vrstva chybných rozcestníku (už/zase) nefunguje.
>
> Mirek
>
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Moje další záliba: *https://www.geocaching.com/
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Re: [Talk-it] Mancata attribuzione App Quechua Tracking

2016-07-12 Thread Max1234Ita

Andrea Lattmann wrote
> Decripto (ero di corsa): sul Play Store ho trovato l' applicazione Quechua
> Tracking che utilizza la cartografia OSM con il layer landscape. Il punto
> è che sulla pagina del Play Storie dicono di utilizzare OSM ma non ne
> specificano la licenza e sull' app neanche l' ombra, a parte nella licenza
> dell' app e sulle condizioni generali d' uso. 
> Uno stralcio dove viene citato OSM:
> 
> 4.4 Mappa Open Street Map
> Per permettere ai suoi utilizzatori di conoscere la loro posizione su una
> cartina, l'applicazione QUECHUA TRACKING utilizza la cartografia Open
> Street Map (con sovrapposizione grafica Landscape). Open Street Map è una
> mappa collaborativa, non è quindi certificata da alcun ente ufficiale. Si
> incrementa grazie alla partecipazione dei membri della community Open
> Street Map. Le rappresentazioni del campo su mappa Open Street Map possono
> quindi, talvolta, essere approssimative e non corrispondere esattamente
> alla realtà. QUECHUA invita quindi gli utilizzatori di QUECHUA TRACKING a
> prendere con circospezione le informazioni fornite dalla mappa Open Street
> Map.
> Per maggiori informazioni su Open Street Map: www.openstreetmap.org
> 
> 
> Secondo voi lo rispettano il copyright?
> Per me no.
> 
> Andrea Lattmann
> 
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Non ho installato l'app in questione (non é l'ultimo dei motivi il fatto che
il marchio in oggetto sia largamente distribuito da una nota catena
d'Oltralpe specializzata in articoli sportivi, dalla quale tendo a stare
alla larga :->) ma -se hanno scritto proprio come hai riportato- vedo un che
di diffamatorio in quel paragrafo: sarebbe a dire che le altre mappe, in
quanto verificate e certificate "da enti ufficiali", sono infallibili? 

Non mi sembra una bella maniera di raccomandare prudenza (e l'uso del
buonsenso) agli utilizzatori, poiché QUALUNQUE mappa può contenere errori ed
imprecisioni.

Non ci fa bella figura nessuno, non noi, che passiamo quasi per dei
freakkettoni trasandati, ma nemmeno loro: se le mappe OSM sono così scarse,
perché diavolo le hanno scelte, forse solo perché sono "gratuite"?

Comunque, per quanto riguarda la licenza, probabilmente non é rispettata
formalmente, in quanto manca la "maggica" stringa

   "(c)OpenStreetMap contributors"

Quantomeno hanno dichiarato l'origine nelle istruzioni... Diciamo che
potevano fare un piccolo sforzo in più.

Tutto questo, IMHO, naturalmente.

Max



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Re: [OSM-talk] What3words

2016-07-12 Thread Tim Waters

Heather and folks who are often perplexed,

are you actually perplexed or do you understand but disagree? I ask
because I have heard some mappers say the opposite: "I don't
understand why people would choose w3w!!11". Is it a turn of phrase?
Or a genuine plea for illumination? I often disagree with blind
vitriol, but I try to understand why it exists. The words we say often
give different responses. For example in the UK many people said "I
don't understand why people voted for Brexit" and some of them
genuinely did not know of any reasons why people voted that way
(filter bubble doesnt help), whilst others said that phrase, but could
understand why others voted that way but simply disagreed with the
reasons. Some people simply could not put themselves in the
oppositions shoes. The cognitive dissonance hurts too much.  I
therefore think its not just a turn of phrase for all. So here's a
response which I hope covers both angles:

In this example of w3w should the OSM community or the OSM Foundation
provide reasons why people disagree to help those who do not
understand community responses to product, or, should the OSM
Community or the OSM Foundation communicate better so that differences
of opinion are valued and can coexist with each other? Should reasons
on both sides be listed, or should we work so that blind vitriol and
anti vitriol statements be lowered? Is the problem the thing, or is it
that the thing cannot be easily understood?

Personally, I like w3w, I don't think the promise to release the code
if it goes belly up means anything. Contracts and terms of conditions
can be changed whenever, and it looks like they are aiming to be
acquired. Also, if they are successful it would never be released, so
why should we wait for it? They are VC funded, after all so they want
to grow and get a profit. I disagree mostly with the proprietary 3rd
party access. It's not open and not the OSM way. Its a proprietary
gatekeeper of information, something diametrically opposed to our
little mapping project. Would someone say the proceeding few sentences
was vitriolic? I don't think so. Critical yes. Was it offensive? Maybe
their investors don't like it, but I think it should be allowed to be
said, right?

However, I also disagree with criticism from mappers directed at
Mongolia which is patronising at best. To go with w3w is similar to
any proprietary software contract, which big businesses and big
countries do every day. It's not something I would promote generally,
it's not an open way forward is it? However it gives people jobs, and
its the money making capitalist world we live in. I believe w3w whilst
being a poor choice is a workable choice. And it may be a great choice
for the country if it works for them. If the country asked me, I would
not have recommended w3w, but dont hold it against them! Just like
using closed data, or proprietary software is a poor choice, it does
actually work. Microsoft or Esri products actually work pretty well!
(and so do their better FOSS alternatives of course). I do reserve my
vitriol to protect open data and open source, as this protects this
OSM community and foundation and what I think we stand for. Mongolia,
I believe made a good choice in their eyes for their country.

I hope this helps the perplexity, if there is genuine perplexity. Many
people do not understand the issues, and that's okay, and I want to
help people understand things if they are open to learn. And i hope
this helps understand some of the issues why people disagree with the
project if there is a genuine need to learn about some of these. I
want to help people empathise with others, to put themselves in their
opponents shoes and see that they are not actually opponents after
all!. I suspect the reality in many people's cases with controversial
subjects it is a mixture :)

best regards,

Tim

On 12 July 2016 at 12:12, Heather Leson  wrote:
> Well, slightly off-topic but I am often perplexed by the vitriol in OSM. I
> even shudder to post this statement because the environment has shown itself
> to be hard.
>
> Maybe we can have conversations at SOTM about how to turn this tide in a
> collaborative way.
>
>
> Heather
>
> Heather Leson
> heatherle...@gmail.com
> Twitter/skype: HeatherLeson
> Blog: textontechs.com
>
> On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 2:04 PM, Jóhannes Birgir Jensson 
> wrote:
>>
>> I don't know if they are using the English version in Mongolia but I doubt
>> it. You can already swap to 8 other languages on their website (top right
>> option).
>>
>> I did discuss Icelandic with Mapillary and they looked into available word
>> sets and concluded that it was more than sufficient to make Iceland itself
>> work in an Icelandic w3w implementation.
>>
>> The circle-jerk is strong here about w3w, they have a human readable
>> solution for GPS-coordinates (which OPL isn't sadly), they've pledged to
>> offer the source code if their business goes belly-up and seem to doing a

Re: [OSM-talk] What pointing device you use for mapping?

2016-07-12 Thread Andreas Vilén

Nothing fancy. Heavy osming has a tendency to break mice so I only use cheap 
stuff.

Once I bought a fancy one but the precision was so bad I had to change back to 
the standard Ms mouse...

/Andreas

Skickat från min iPhone

> 12 juli 2016 kl. 10:18 skrev Oleksiy Muzalyev :
> 
> I use Nexus Silent Mouse SM-8500B [1]. This mouse does not produce a "click" 
> sound, though there is a tactile click. This type of soundless mouse makes a 
> difference while working in an OSM editor. I like SM-8500B. I own three of 
> them, including a spare one. It works fine on Mac and W10.
> 
> There are numerous innovative pointing devices available nowadays, - graphics 
> tablets, vertical mice, pencil mouse, etc. If you have a positive experience 
> employing an innovative pointing device design for mapping, please, let me 
> know.
> 
> [1] https://nexustek.us/mice/sm-8500
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Oleksiy
> 
> 
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[OSM-co] Invitación a colaborar en la tarea #26 - Guapi, Cauca, Colombia

2016-07-12 Thread carlos felipe castillo

Saludos maperos, buen día.

Mi nombre es Carlos Felipe Castillo, voluntario de OSM. Actualmente estoy
liderando el proyecto de datos geográficos abiertos para la prevención de
la Malaria en el municipio de Guapi
, ubicado en las
costas del Pacífico colombiano. Guapi ingresa a la vanguardia en la lucha
mundial contra la malaria, iniciando la histórica batalla de pre -
eliminación de esta patología en zonas de baja transmisión.

La iniciativa de pre-eliminación de la malaria es una lucha conjunta entre
la Secretaria de Salud Departamental del Cauca (SSDC), la Universidad
Nacional de Colombia (UNAL) y el Wellcome Trust Sanger Institute, quienes
han contactado al proyecto Openstreetmap Colombia y pedido ayuda en la
realización de un mapa integral de las edificaciones de Guapi, para ayudar
a su trabajo de campo en 2016, como parte del proyecto "Herramientas,
formación y redes encaminadas a disminuir la carga por malaria en
Colombia". Al ayudar al trazado de las edificaciones en el mapa se puede
jugar un papel fundamental en el esfuerzo para el control y la
pre-eliminación de la malaria en Guapi a finales de 2016, una enfermedad
que causa la muerte a más de un millón de personas al año en el mundo.

Haz parte de este increíble esfuerzo para iniciar la lucha de pre
eliminación de la malaria en Guapi, te invito a mapear algunas
edificaciones en la tarea #26 http://tareas.openstreetmap.co/project/26

Gracias.
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Re: [Talk-it] relazione per linea autobus e rotonde

2016-07-12 Thread Federico Cortese

2016-07-12 20:09 GMT+02:00 mbranco :
> A ripensarci però non è necessario: assumendo che la partenza
> dell'itinerario sia la prima way della relazione, e che tutte le way siano
> correttamente congiunte tra di loro, basta invertire l'ordine dei nodi delle
> way che non hanno il primo nodo coincidente con l'ultimo nodo della way
> precedente.
>

Non ce n'è nemmeno bisogno :)
Basta che le way siano inserite nella relazione nel giusto ordine, il
senso di percorrenza non ha importanza.
Ciao
Federico

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Re: [OSM-talk] What3words

2016-07-12 Thread Maurizio Napolitano

> This is funny, because what3fucks:
>
> 1) Has variable precision
> 2) Its fuckonyms are correlated
> 3) Code can be downloaded and needs no network connectivity to do the
> calculations
> 4) Gives a fuck
>
> What a crazy random coincidence, huh?!

PS:
there is also an Pokemon implementation :)
http://www.what3pokemon.com/

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Re: [OSM-talk] What3words

2016-07-12 Thread moltonel

On 12 July 2016 08:46:08 GMT+01:00, Steve Doerr  wrote:
>On 12/07/2016 00:23, Dave F wrote:
>
>> This system [...] doesn't work in the real world.
>
>It's apparently used in Mongolia as of this month. So the proof of the 
>pudding . . .

People have different criterias for what makes a postcode system 'work in the 
real world'. Many people in the osm/foss comunity have criterias that put w3w 
firmly in the 'doesn't work' category, whatever Mongolia's government may think.

Ireland recently got a postcode system that is so bad that nobody in the know 
wants to (or can) use it. The goverment only selected it because of lobbying 
(to put it nicely) by the company selling the system. There were much better 
systems available but they didn't manage to get the politicians or people's 
interest. I'm not familiar with Mongolia but I'm pretty sure the same story 
happened there.

IMHO plus codes are much better than w3w, and I guess w3w mainly thrives 
marketing/lobbying and because their system looks cool at first blush. 
Openpostcode is another good system, very similar to plus codes, which is used 
as the official postcode in Yemen since 2014.
-- 
Vincent Dp

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Re: [OSM-talk] What3words

2016-07-12 Thread Simon Poole

Am 12.07.2016 um 21:07 schrieb Mark Wagner:
> ..
> 3) ... and my GPS can't display it.
That however is only the small problem of w3w paying the device
manufacturer enough so they include it, or becoming popular enough so
that the device manufacturer pays w3w for including it.

Typically the technical aspects of a particular solution have nothing to
do with its market success.

Simon



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[Talk-at] Bankomatgebühren

2016-07-12 Thread Friedrich Volkmann


Wer hat Lust, fee=yes auf alle Euronet-Bankomaten zu setzen?

Liste: 
https://www.girokonto.at/info/erster_betreiber_fuehrt_bankomatgebuehr_in_oesterreich_ein


PS: Dass die Gebühren so halten werden, bezweifle ich. Der Hinweis im 
Kleingedruckten erst unterhalb vom Annehmen-Button ist eine Form von Betrug, 
und die erstbeste Klage dagegen wird Erfolg haben.


--
Friedrich K. Volkmann   http://www.volki.at/
Adr.: Davidgasse 76-80/14/10, 1100 Wien, Austria

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Re: [OSM-talk] What3words

2016-07-12 Thread Iván Sánchez Ortega

On Tuesday 12 July 2016 12:07:36 Mark Wagner wrote:
> 1) There's no way to reduce precision. 
> 
> 2) There's no correlation of names between adjacent locations.
> 
> 3) It requires an internet connection.

This is funny, because what3fucks:

1) Has variable precision
2) Its fuckonyms are correlated
3) Code can be downloaded and needs no network connectivity to do the 
calculations
4) Gives a fuck

What a crazy random coincidence, huh?!

-- 
Iván Sánchez Ortega 

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Re: [OSM-talk] What3words

2016-07-12 Thread Mark Wagner

There are three major problems with What3Words:

1) There's no way to reduce precision.  I can say "the left front door
of the Avista central office building", but I can't say "the Avista
headquarters campus" or "downtown Spokane".

2) There's no correlation of names between adjacent locations.  The
aforementioned left front door has a totally different name from the
right front door.

3) It requires an internet connection.  If I'm out hiking and a member
of my party breaks a leg, I can't get on the radio and tell
Search & Rescue my What3Words location: my map doesn't have it (and
never will: see the precision issues), and my GPS can't display it.

In short, What3Words has solved the problem of human transmission of GPS
coordinates from one internet-connected device to another.  But they're
hyping it as if it were the ultimate solution to all your location
problems, hence the derision.

-- 
Mark

On Tue, 12 Jul 2016 11:04:59 +
Jóhannes Birgir Jensson  wrote:

> I don't know if they are using the English version in Mongolia but I 
> doubt it. You can already swap to 8 other languages on their website 
> (top right option).
> 
> I did discuss Icelandic with Mapillary and they looked into available 
> word sets and concluded that it was more than sufficient to make
> Iceland itself work in an Icelandic w3w implementation.
> 
> The circle-jerk is strong here about w3w, they have a human readable 
> solution for GPS-coordinates (which OPL isn't sadly), they've pledged
> to offer the source code if their business goes belly-up and seem to
> doing a lot of good things. I'm slightly perplexed at the extent of
> vitriol they suffer here.
> 
> --JBJ
> 
> Þann 12.07.2016 08:11, Janko Mihelić reit:
> > So they are using the english version? What good does that do to the
> > local people? It would be easier to learn the GPS coordinates.
> > 
> > Janko
> > 
> > uto, 12. srp 2016. u 09:47 Steve Doerr 
> > napisao je:
> >   
> >> On 12/07/2016 00:23, Dave F wrote:
> >>   
> >>> This system [...] doesn't work in the real world.  
> >> 
> >> It's apparently used in Mongolia as of this month. So the proof of
> >> the
> >> pudding . . .
> >> 
> >> --
> >> Steve
> >> 
> >> ---
> >> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus
> >> software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus [1]
> >> 
> >> ___
> >> talk mailing list
> >> talk@openstreetmap.org
> >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk [2]  
> > 
> > 
> > Links:
> > --
> > [1] https://www.avast.com/antivirus
> > [2] https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
> > 
> > ___
> > talk mailing list
> > talk@openstreetmap.org
> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk  
> 
> 
> ___
> talk mailing list
> talk@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

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Re: [Talk-it] Suddivisioni di Roma

2016-07-12 Thread Davio

Ciao,

All'estero i quartieri sono mappati nello stesso modo, usando il tag
administrative, come a Berlino.

Non essendoci un valido tag alternativo, può rimanere questo.



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Re: [Talk-it] relazione per linea autobus e rotonde

2016-07-12 Thread mbranco

Grazie Federico, avevi già indicato prima il link al metodo nuovo, ma non
avevo letto attentamente.
Io usavo backward e forward non tanto rispetto all' "andata" e al "ritorno"
della linea, ma rispetto alla direzione delle way.
Facevo così pensando che dovesse essere necessario per un navigatore che
dovesse "seguire" un itinerario (in generale, non solo per le linee dei
bus).
A ripensarci però non è necessario: assumendo che la partenza
dell'itinerario sia la prima way della relazione, e che tutte le way siano
correttamente congiunte tra di loro, basta invertire l'ordine dei nodi delle
way che non hanno il primo nodo coincidente con l'ultimo nodo della way
precedente.



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[Talk-cz] CHKO Kokořínsko - Máchův kraj

2016-07-12 Thread Alena Malá

Ahoj,

Máchův kraj jsem včera ručně naklikala podle katastrálních map z AOPK
(práce to byla na 12 hodin) ale možná to bude potřeba ještě "učesat" nejsem
v tom zatím až tak zběhlá

Alena - OK2APY

-- 
S pozdravem, Sincerely yours


  
    

Moje další záliba: *https://www.geocaching.com/
*


* *
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Re: [Talk-it] Suddivisioni di Roma

2016-07-12 Thread Fayor Uno

Con "il sito" intendo il sito ufficiale del Comune di Roma, dove sono indicati 
i confini. Ma il punto non è questo, a prima vista mi sembra che confini e nomi 
siano corretti: il problema è di distinguere tra confini amministrativi e 
confini di natura diversa, come sono quelli toponomastici o urbanistici (ma mi 
vengono in mente altri esempi, come sezioni di censimento, parrocchie, 
farmacie, circoscrizioni giudiziarie: tutti suddivisioni ufficiali e ben 
individuate, ma non sono confini amministrativi come regioni, province, comuni 
e circoscrizioni).


Ho trovato altri tipi di confini già in uso: zone postali, parchi nazionali, 
circoscrizioni elettorali, confini storici. In attesa di un confine statistico 
la tua proposta dei poligoni-quartieri mi sembra ottima.




Da: Martin Koppenhoefer 
Inviato: martedì 12 luglio 2016 19.07
A: openstreetmap list - italiano; talk-it-la...@openstreetmap.org
Oggetto: Re: [Talk-it] Suddivisioni di Roma


2016-07-12 18:29 GMT+02:00 Fayor Uno 
>:
Il sito e Wikipedia sono abbastanza completi sul punto.


wp elenca nomi, sarebbe da dargli un luogo.
Non è l'unico vista sui toponomi, ma probabilmente un buon inizio.

Quale altro sito intendi?


Le suddivisioni dei municipi non esistono, almeno come enti amministrativi: la 
circoscrizione è l'ente territoriale finora di più basso livello in Italia.


Forse non devono essere enti amministrativi? Per me sarebbe sufficiente se 
esistesse come struttura ufficiale, per esempio per motivi di organisazzione.



Mi sono accorto della situazione esistente rettificando il confine del Vaticano 
in corrispondenza del "ricciolo d'Italia".

La modifica, oltre a cambiare l'admin_level attuale dei municipi, dovrebbe 
trasformare queste 120 relazioni in poligoni con tag place=quarter, oppure 
lasciare le relazioni e cambiare solo i tag?


coinvolgiamo anche la lista talk-it-lazio. Prima di modificare chiederei a chi 
ha messo queste 120 relazioni.

Ciao,
Martin
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Re: [OSM-talk] Automated edits code of conduct

2016-07-12 Thread Andy Townsend


On 12/07/2016 17:29, Éric Gillet wrote:


So at least one user should reach out to the contributor before 
involving the DWG ? That would be great but that's not currently the 
case in my experience.



The vast majority of my DWG interactions with other OSM users are "if 
you see something amiss, please comment on the changeset discussion so 
that the person making a mistake knows there's a problem".  It's 
actually rare for DWG members to see something and act immediately; most 
are reported to us directly, often by multiple users.


What might happen is that we jump fairly quickly on obvious sock-puppets 
(see for example the ones at the top of the 
http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/SomeoneElse/blocks_by list - but even 
in that case the recipient has a clear route to engage with the DWG to 
say "you made a mistake").


To my mind, the biggest and most important requirement in 
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Automated_Edits_code_of_conduct is 
"document and discuss".  It's important that large-scale edits 
(especially worldwide ones) catch the ear of those mappers and data 
consumers that they're going to affect.  Also, sometimes well-meaning 
tag-changers sometimes don't have as much domain knowledge as others 
about the things that they're proposing to change (the "trees" change 
mentioned upthread was a good example of this - most needleleaved 
(coniferous) trees are evergreen, but not all, and the person making the 
(undiscussed) change didn't know that).  Discussing proposed changes in 
the open means that everyone can benefit from that wider knowledge.


It's also important to remember that OSM is supposed to be something 
representing the real world, not a bunch of data that is semantically 
described by the wiki.  Essentially, it's a geography project, not a 
computer science one*.  There will be cases where the data that's in OSM 
is "a bit woolly", and doesn't quite get the sense of a real-world 
entity across (but without an on-the-ground survey it's difficult to say 
what the problem is).  Sometimes the fact that OSM mappers have captured 
something that "doesn't quite fit" OSM's frequently used categories is 
really useful, because it identifies something that we should categorise 
better - so it's important that the _sense_ of what the original mapper 
reported is kept, rather than their square peg being hammered down into 
a round hole**.


I've read through your posts in this thread, and while it's clear that 
you have an issue with the way that things work now, I can't see what 
that problem actually is.  Can you provide some specific examples of DWG 
actions that you think were inappropriate?  What do you think should 
have happened instead?


However do bear in mind that just like the vast majority of people in 
OSM everyone in the DWG's a volunteer.  Some volunteered; others were 
asked to join but everyone's unpaid.  Also bear in mind that everyone in 
OSM's a human being and deserves a basic level of respect - even new 
users creating invalid POIs simply because they don't realise they're 
editing a worldwide map.


Best Regards,

Andy (aka http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/SomeoneElse , member of the 
DWG but writing in a personal capacity).



* full disclosure - I'm part of the problem here, as I'm a computer 
scientist rather than a geographer by trade.


** part of my background was in statistical analysis of 
electromechanical data (while that was still a thing), and a key lesson 
from there is that you need to keep as much data as possible in order to 
be able to detect odd or expensive events as they occur - part of this 
has since been described as "black swan theory", but there's a bit more 
to it than that.


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Re: [Talk-it] relazione per linea autobus e rotonde

2016-07-12 Thread Aury88

Federico Cortese wrote
> Col sistema legacy avrai un'unica relazione coi role backward e forward,
> col public transport puoi spezzare in più relazioni. Non ha importanza
> l'andata o il ritorno, decidi tu come spezzare la linea, anche a Lecce
> avevo linee circolari (mi pare 29 e 30 o 31 ora non ricordo).
> Poi col public transport si aggiunge per ogni fermata lo stop_position
> sulla way nel punto dove il bus si ferma e il platform dove le persone
> aspettano il bus. Questi due elementi si inseriscono in ordine nella
> relazione coi role stop e platform.
> 
> Ciao
> Federico

perfetto, farò così allora e modificherò anche la linea 1 (che non ne
avrebbe bisogno) così da utilizzare un solo stile in città. 

ok, dovrebbe essere tutto chiaro.
Grazie mille a tutti ragazzi, mi siete stati di grandissimo aiuto ;-)






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Re: [Talk-it] relazione per linea autobus e rotonde

2016-07-12 Thread Aury88

temo di essere finito non so come in questa pagina [1]
al momento la tengo così anche perchè non saprei come si chiama il trasporto
locale


[1]http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_Features/Importance



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Re: [Talk-it] Suddivisioni di Roma

2016-07-12 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer

2016-07-12 18:29 GMT+02:00 Fayor Uno :

> Il sito e Wikipedia sono abbastanza completi sul punto.
>


wp elenca nomi, sarebbe da dargli un luogo.
Non è l'unico vista sui toponomi, ma probabilmente un buon inizio.

Quale altro sito intendi?


Le suddivisioni dei municipi non esistono, almeno come enti amministrativi:
> la circoscrizione è l'ente territoriale finora di più basso livello in
> Italia.
>


Forse non devono essere enti amministrativi? Per me sarebbe sufficiente se
esistesse come struttura ufficiale, per esempio per motivi di
organisazzione.




> Mi sono accorto della situazione esistente rettificando il confine del
> Vaticano in corrispondenza del "ricciolo d'Italia".
>
> La modifica, oltre a cambiare l'admin_level attuale dei municipi, dovrebbe
> trasformare queste 120 relazioni in poligoni con tag place=quarter, oppure
> lasciare le relazioni e cambiare solo i tag?
>


coinvolgiamo anche la lista talk-it-lazio. Prima di modificare chiederei a
chi ha messo queste 120 relazioni.

Ciao,
Martin
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Re: [Talk-it] Mancata attribuzione App Quechua Tracking

2016-07-12 Thread Andrea Lattmann

Decripto (ero di corsa): sul Play Store ho trovato l' applicazione Quechua 
Tracking che utilizza la cartografia OSM con il layer landscape. Il punto è che 
sulla pagina del Play Storie dicono di utilizzare OSM ma non ne specificano la 
licenza e sull' app neanche l' ombra, a parte nella licenza dell' app e sulle 
condizioni generali d' uso. 
Uno stralcio dove viene citato OSM:

4.4 Mappa Open Street Map
Per permettere ai suoi utilizzatori di conoscere la loro posizione su una 
cartina, l'applicazione QUECHUA TRACKING utilizza la cartografia Open Street 
Map (con sovrapposizione grafica Landscape). Open Street Map è una mappa 
collaborativa, non è quindi certificata da alcun ente ufficiale. Si incrementa 
grazie alla partecipazione dei membri della community Open Street Map. Le 
rappresentazioni del campo su mappa Open Street Map possono quindi, talvolta, 
essere approssimative e non corrispondere esattamente alla realtà. QUECHUA 
invita quindi gli utilizzatori di QUECHUA TRACKING a prendere con circospezione 
le informazioni fornite dalla mappa Open Street Map.
Per maggiori informazioni su Open Street Map: www.openstreetmap.org


Secondo voi lo rispettano il copyright?
Per me no.

Andrea Lattmann

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Re: [OSM-talk] Automated edits code of conduct

2016-07-12 Thread Éric Gillet

2016-07-12 14:35 GMT+02:00 Frederik Ramm :
>
> On 07/12/2016 03:03 AM, tuxayo wrote:
> > The questions is how legitimate are they. To know if we can enforce them
> > strictly.
>
> Enforcing anything "strictly" is likely to cause problems. Rules can
> only be enforced strictly if they are so well written that any idiot can
> enforce them by simply following the instructions ;)
>

 The DWG currently use those (AE CoC) rules to revert changesets without
further justification.

For example, a few years ago we had a user called "worst-fixer" or so
> who did a couple of large-scale edits removing the "created-by" tag. Now
> this was a mechanical edit against the rules, and there was a consensus
> in the community to remove those unwanted tags piecemeal instead of
> creating a new version for hundreds of thousands of objects, needlessly.
>
> Strictly enforcing rules would have meant reverting all these edits but
> that would have been quite silly (causing another extra version to be
> created), so they were allowed to stand.
>

It's a good thing that rules could be bent a little, but that means that
they should be modified. Defining rules but overriding them when convenient
is not a sane approach in the long term.


> > That would also allow DWG members to intervene with a greater legitimacy
> > because it would not come from their status.
>
> Having a DWG whose legitimacy comes from rules would allow everyone to
> start endless discussions about DWG's interpretation of the rules, or
> finding loopholes in the wording. This is what happens in Wikipedia and
> it allows troublemakers to waste an awful lot of volunteer time by
> posing as innocent, rule-abiding people.
>

Do you suggest that DWG members should not even base their actions on rules
accepted by the community ? That wouldn't work even with perfectly honest,
calm, and open-minded members, as even then contributors could have have
another valid opinion on things. (just to be clear : I am not saying that
they are not calm, honest and open-minded)


> > I agree that showing them at sign up wouldn't help. However it's to be
> > expected that first time mass edits are done without knowing the AECoC
> > as nothing more than the JOSM search and replace tool is needed. Is not
> > like importing which require more documentation.
>
> Perhaps we could make JOSM cleverer in detecting such cases and alerting
> people to the rules. JOSM already pops up tons of warnings - about
> moving lots of nodes, about displaced aerial imagery, etc. - it could
> also say "you're changing a lot of objects over a geographically large
> area at the same time and you haven't zoomed in on any, are you sure you
> have read the rules..."
>

That is a good idea !


>
> > The reporting of AECoC violations could be done in a dedicated open
> > mailing list so we could have accountability about how these issues are
> > handled.
> > *Any thoughts about this? This is a concrete proposal.*
>
> DWG is happy about every case that the community manages to handle
> between themselves, without DWG having to get involved. If such a
> mailing list would help taking some of the load off DWG's shoulders and
> DWG would then only deal with those cases that the community can't
> handle or where things aren't clear enough, sure that would be great.
>

So at least one user should reach out to the contributor before involving
the DWG ? That would be great but that's not currently the case in my
experience.


> The rules about automated edits stem from their ability to upset many
> people in the community. Reverting an automated edit will usually only
> upset one person.


At least some reversal were done after only one complaint, so it doesn't
currently work like that.


> It is a logical fallacy to believe that just because
> automated edits are a problem that needs to be regulated, the reverting
> of automated edits needs to be regulated as well.


Why not ? All changesets should be justifiable, even so on a revert where
there are no verification at all of the modified data, whereas in
"automated" edits there are at least some.
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Re: [Talk-it] Suddivisioni di Roma

2016-07-12 Thread Fayor Uno





Il sito e Wikipedia sono abbastanza completi sul punto.
Mapparli come place non è una cattiva idea.

Le suddivisioni dei municipi non esistono, almeno come enti amministrativi: la 
circoscrizione è l'ente territoriale finora di più basso livello in Italia.

Mi sono accorto della situazione esistente rettificando il confine del Vaticano 
in corrispondenza del "ricciolo d'Italia".

La modifica, oltre a cambiare l'admin_level attuale dei municipi, dovrebbe 
trasformare queste 120 relazioni in poligoni con tag place=quarter, oppure 
lasciare le relazioni e cambiare solo i tag?

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Re: [OSM-talk] What3words

2016-07-12 Thread Frank Villaro-Dixon


On 16-07-12 11:04:59, Jóhannes Birgir Jensson, wrote 2.4K characters saying:
The circle-jerk is strong here about w3w, they have a human readable 
solution for GPS-coordinates (which OPL isn't sadly), they've pledged to 
offer the source code if their business goes belly-up and seem to doing a 
lot of good things. I'm slightly perplexed at the extent of vitriol they 
suffer here.



I didn't knew about W3W before yesterday. When I looked-it up, I thought:
``Yay, this system is so cool. It's easier to remember words than numbers, 
so it should be useful.''
Then I looked at the coordinates of my house. Something like 
"pudding.speaker.table". Okay, that's definitely easy to remember. But 
when I looked at the coordinates of my neighbour (I expected something 
like "pudding.speaker.Z"), and they were completely different. There's 
absolutely no way of knowing adjacent coordinates form the tile you're in.


And that's fucking shit! Could you imagine in a city ? If you're in 
"Boulevard Jacques", next to house number 42 and you want to reach the 
"1324 Boulevard Jacques", then it's easy: it's sequential.


But with this revolutionary new system if you're in 
"pudding.speaker.table", want to go to "completely.broken.system", and 
your phone no longer has a charge, then you're fucked.


More importantly, the system is completely "brain-inefficient". If 
everybody adopted this system you would then have to remember all the 
codes for all the places whereas of now you don't need to. Your brain only 
remembers the road and then a number for each house.



I won't even talk about the fact that their magical algorithm is 
completely closed..



Frankly, the system could be interesting if they didn't implement their 
magical "error correction", and thus made the addressing sequential (like 
first column is some segmented space, second column is latitude, last is 
longitude) or something logical.


I can already see an elderly people reacting to their idea: ``Meh, who 
needs that shit ?''



A shame…



Cheers,



--
frank.villaro-dixon.eu   - PGP: 6F36914A
Envie d'électricité 100% verte ? Enercoop.fr
What is a Velomobile ?   www.sans-essence.eu

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Re: [OSRM-talk] Questions about internals

2016-07-12 Thread Daniel Patterson

You got it, the level is implicit in the ordering.  You'll see this behavior in 
a few spots in the codebase - IDs are implied by positions in lists, rather 
than explicitly stored.

daniel

> On Jul 12, 2016, at 8:35 AM, Francis Giraldeau  
> wrote:
> 
> Le mar. 12 juil. 2016 à 09:02, Daniel Patterson  > a écrit :
> Francis,
> 
>   Yes, it's a bidirectional Dijkstra search.  The Wikipedia page for CH 
> describes it, so I won't repeat it here:  
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contraction_hierarchies#Querying 
> 
> 
> 
> OK, I think I get it. In the graph preprocessing, shortcut edges are added to 
> the edges representing the streets. The relaxation selects edges (including 
> shorcuts) that converges to the goal, such as A*. Of course, the largest 
> shortcut is taken first. However, I was expecting that EdgeData contains a 
> "level" field or a reference to the children, but it is not (i guess to 
> reduce memory usage). I will have a second look at UnpackPath and the 
> Contractor to understand the implicit hierarchy (shortcuts edges at a given 
> level have greater ids than their child level?).
> 
>   "Core nodes" are uncontracted nodes.  `osrm-contract` has the option to not 
> fully contract the edge-based graph (using the `--core` command-line 
> parameter).  In this case, the search needs to be modified when it comes 
> across nodes that are uncontracted.  The purpose of this feature is to allow 
> faster pre-processing, at the expense of query-time performance.
> 
>   If you don't use the `--core` parameter, everything gets contracted, and 
> there are no core nodes.
> 
> Thanks Daniel for this enlightenment.
> 
> Francis
> -- 
> Francis Giraldeau
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Re: [OSRM-talk] Questions about internals

2016-07-12 Thread Francis Giraldeau

Le mar. 12 juil. 2016 à 09:02, Daniel Patterson  a
écrit :

> Francis,
>
>   Yes, it's a bidirectional Dijkstra search.  The Wikipedia page for CH
> describes it, so I won't repeat it here:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contraction_hierarchies#Querying
>
>
OK, I think I get it. In the graph preprocessing, shortcut edges are added
to the edges representing the streets. The relaxation selects edges
(including shorcuts) that converges to the goal, such as A*. Of course, the
largest shortcut is taken first. However, I was expecting that
EdgeData contains
a "level" field or a reference to the children, but it is not (i guess to
reduce memory usage). I will have a second look at UnpackPath and the
Contractor to understand the implicit hierarchy (shortcuts edges at a given
level have greater ids than their child level?).

  "Core nodes" are uncontracted nodes.  `osrm-contract` has the option to
> not fully contract the edge-based graph (using the `--core` command-line
> parameter).  In this case, the search needs to be modified when it comes
> across nodes that are uncontracted.  The purpose of this feature is to
> allow faster pre-processing, at the expense of query-time performance.
>
>   If you don't use the `--core` parameter, everything gets contracted, and
> there are no core nodes.
>

Thanks Daniel for this enlightenment.

Francis
-- 
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Re: [Talk-cz] WeeklyOSM CZ 310

2016-07-12 Thread Marián Kyral

Ahoj,
mně to jede. Asi zase problém s mixed content: https://github.com/osmcz/
osmcz/issues/129#issuecomment-225092543

Tomáš už nasadil https, tak až to Pavel nahraje na produkci, tak už to snad 
konečně přestane blbnout.

Marián


-- Původní zpráva --
Od: Miroslav Suchy 
Komu: talk-cz@openstreetmap.org
Datum: 12. 7. 2016 9:48:50
Předmět: Re: [Talk-cz] WeeklyOSM CZ 310

"Dne 12.7.2016 v 09:04 Tom Ka napsal(a):
> Téma čísla: Nevyužité fotky rozcestníků

Když už to je jako téma: Vrstva chybných rozcestníku (už/zase) nefunguje.

Mirek

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Re: [Talk-ca] Improving navigation data in several cities in Canada

2016-07-12 Thread Denis Carriere

Great stuff Maning & the Mapbox team,

As for Ottawa, we have a good OSM community ready to help out for street
level photos.

We can host a few Mapillary/OpenStreetView events to promote the use of
OpenData in Canada.

Cheers,

*~~*
*Denis Carriere*
*GIS Project Manager*

*Twitter: @DenisCarriere *
*OSM: DenisCarriere *
GitHub: DenisCarriere 
Email: carriere.de...@gmail.com

On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 10:00 AM, James  wrote:

> I use to collect imagery for Mapillary, especially around the Ottawa area,
> but now I'm collecting street imagery for OpenStreetView.com, which allows
> you to download your photos as you still own your photos. They are
> releasing more stuff(like public beta, josm plugin, etc) for the SOTM in
> Seatle.
>
> On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 9:46 AM, maning sambale <
> emmanuel.samb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi everyone,
>>
>> This is Maning Sambale and I work with the Mapbox' Data team [0].  Our
>> team is working on improving carnavigation data in OpenStreetMap.  We
>> recently mapped turn-lanes [1] and turn-restrictions [2] in several
>> cities in the US.
>>
>> Right now, we want to extend this mapping to other cities around the
>> world. We mainly use Mapillary, hires imagery and other open data
>> sources to map.
>>
>> For Canada, we want to focus on several cities where Mapillary has
>> good coverage.  Initial cities are:Toronto, Vancouver, Ottawa,
>> Calgary, Montreal. Whenever, Mapillary is not available, we will not
>> map them.
>>
>> Before we begin, we want discuss first with the Canadian community.
>> We appreciate any idea, tool, reference data that can improve
>> navigation data in Canada.
>>
>> All  mapping projects will be posted in our mapping repo [3].
>>
>> [0] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Mapbox#Mapbox_Data_Team
>> [1] https://github.com/mapbox/mapping/issues/180
>> [2] https://github.com/mapbox/mapping/issues/187
>> [3] https://github.com/mapbox/mapping/
>> --
>>
>> cheers,
>> maning
>> --
>> "Freedom is still the most radical idea of all" -N.Branden
>> https://epsg4253.wordpress.com/
>> http://twitter.com/maningsambale
>> --
>>
>> ___
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>>
>
>
>
> --
> 外に遊びに行こう！
>
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Re: [Talk-it] Suddivisioni di Roma

2016-07-12 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer



sent from a phone

> Il giorno 12 lug 2016, alle ore 15:40, Fayor Uno  ha 
> scritto:
> 
> Il livello 10 è invece erroneamente usato per le 120 suddivisioni 
> toponomastiche, che non dovrebbero avere alcun livello di questo tipo in 
> quanto non sono entità amministrative.
> 
> 
> Quindi è sbagliato delimitarle con il boundary=administrative ma si dovrebbe 
> usare un altro tipo di boundary (che però non ho trovato tra quelli 
> attualmente in uso, immagino qualcosa tipo "statistic") senza admin_level
> 
> 
> Ulteriore suddivisione di Roma è quella urbanistica, che individua ben 155 
> zone. Attualmente queste zone non sono delimitate su Osm; in futuro, qualora 
> si voglia delimitarle, si dovrebbe evitare, per le stesse ragioni, di usare i 
> tag boundary=administrative e admin_level.
> 
> 
> Quindi il punto è: come mappare queste zone?
> 


accolgo il tema. Per me questi luoghi sono da mappare con 'place'
Sono stati promossi neighbourhood e quarter proprio per avere livelli 
toponomastici sotto a suburb. Sono completamente d'accordo che i toponomi sono 
ortogonali al livello amministrativo (il quale però prende nomi dai toponomi). 
Invece non sono sicuro se quello mappato come admin_level=10 non corrisponda a 
qualche suddivisione di municipio.

I place si possono mappare come nodi o poligoni.

Hai del materiale relativo a Roma?

Ciao,
Martin 


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Re: [Talk-ca] Improving navigation data in several cities in Canada

2016-07-12 Thread James

I use to collect imagery for Mapillary, especially around the Ottawa area,
but now I'm collecting street imagery for OpenStreetView.com, which allows
you to download your photos as you still own your photos. They are
releasing more stuff(like public beta, josm plugin, etc) for the SOTM in
Seatle.

On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 9:46 AM, maning sambale 
wrote:

> Hi everyone,
>
> This is Maning Sambale and I work with the Mapbox' Data team [0].  Our
> team is working on improving carnavigation data in OpenStreetMap.  We
> recently mapped turn-lanes [1] and turn-restrictions [2] in several
> cities in the US.
>
> Right now, we want to extend this mapping to other cities around the
> world. We mainly use Mapillary, hires imagery and other open data
> sources to map.
>
> For Canada, we want to focus on several cities where Mapillary has
> good coverage.  Initial cities are:Toronto, Vancouver, Ottawa,
> Calgary, Montreal. Whenever, Mapillary is not available, we will not
> map them.
>
> Before we begin, we want discuss first with the Canadian community.
> We appreciate any idea, tool, reference data that can improve
> navigation data in Canada.
>
> All  mapping projects will be posted in our mapping repo [3].
>
> [0] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Mapbox#Mapbox_Data_Team
> [1] https://github.com/mapbox/mapping/issues/180
> [2] https://github.com/mapbox/mapping/issues/187
> [3] https://github.com/mapbox/mapping/
> --
>
> cheers,
> maning
> --
> "Freedom is still the most radical idea of all" -N.Branden
> https://epsg4253.wordpress.com/
> http://twitter.com/maningsambale
> --
>
> ___
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> Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
>



-- 
外に遊びに行こう！
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Re: [Talk-es] Tagear correctamente un paso de cebra

2016-07-12 Thread yo paseopor

lo sería, pero en España no he visto mucho uso de la referencia, aunque
fuera correcta.

On Mon, Jul 11, 2016 at 9:32 PM, R.M M  wrote:

> Muchas gracias por la información, me ha quedado casi todo claro, la única
> duda es ¿seria correcto tagear crossing: uncontrolled y crossing_ref: zebra?
>
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[Talk-it] Suddivisioni di Roma

2016-07-12 Thread Fayor Uno


Roma è suddivisa, dal punto di vista toponomastico, in 120 entità.

Queste si distinguono nominalmente in rioni (22), quartieri (35), suburbi (6) e 
zone (53), ma hanno la stessa "importanza".

Tali entità però non sono suddivisioni dei municipi, in quanto la loro 
ripartizione è indipendente e capita che alcune di esse facciano parte di più 
municipi.

Solo i municipi (ex circoscrizioni) sono suddivisioni amministrative del 
comune: sono 15, dopo la riduzione avvenuta nel 2013 (quando erano 19).


Su Osm attualmente i municipi sono mappati con admin_level 9, invece che 10 (il 
livello riservato alle circoscrizioni o alle frazioni esattamente delimitate).

Il livello 10 è invece erroneamente usato per le 120 suddivisioni 
toponomastiche, che non dovrebbero avere alcun livello di questo tipo in quanto 
non sono entità amministrative.


Quindi è sbagliato delimitarle con il boundary=administrative ma si dovrebbe 
usare un altro tipo di boundary (che però non ho trovato tra quelli attualmente 
in uso, immagino qualcosa tipo "statistic") senza admin_level

Ulteriore suddivisione di Roma è quella urbanistica, che individua ben 155 
zone. Attualmente queste zone non sono delimitate su Osm; in futuro, qualora si 
voglia delimitarle, si dovrebbe evitare, per le stesse ragioni, di usare i tag 
boundary=administrative e admin_level.


Quindi il punto è: come mappare queste zone?


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Re: [OSM-talk] What3words

2016-07-12 Thread Simon Poole

It should be noted that this discussion and the subject of the many
jokes, ridicule, parodies etc. is a company, or rather a specific
product of that company.

Particularly given the fairly aggressive marketing of the product, but
even without that, it is difficult to determine why personal feelings
should be hurt and anybody should be offended by the, sometimes not in
particularly good taste, flak that the product is receiving (it's a
thing, not a person).

Simon



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Re: [Talk-it] relazione per linea autobus e rotonde

2016-07-12 Thread Federico Cortese

2016-07-12 14:59 GMT+02:00 Federico Cortese :
> Certo che va bene, col metodo vecchio.
> Col public_transport:version=2 i role non andrebbero messi.
>

Ad ulteriore prova anche il validatore di JOSM in questa situazione
segnala il warning:
"Route relations contains a 'forward/backward' role" oltre a un "Role
verification problem".

Ciao
Federico

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Re: [Talk-it] Mappare una scuola.

2016-07-12 Thread Carlo Benini

Stefano, ho visto che hai fatto un bel lavoro a Romano. In città ho visto
però che ci sono altre due scuole, le scuole Mottini e Rubini che non
conosco, ancora da mappare.

Carlo

Il giorno 11 luglio 2016 12:15, girarsi_liste  ha
scritto:

> Apro una nuova discussione, in quanto quella scritta sotto, era aperta
> su una discussione esistente.. ;)
>
>
> Il 11/07/2016 12:04, stefano664 ha scritto:
> > Buongiorno a tutti,
> >   sto mappando una scuola, costituita dall'edificio e da un giardino. E'
> > corretto mappare nel seguente modo?
> >
> > Edificio: amenity:school + building:yes
> > Giardino: amenity:school
> >
> > Dovrei mettere una relazione tra i due?
> >
> > Stefano
> >
>
>
> --
> Simone Girardelli
> _|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_
> |_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|
>
>
>
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Re: [OSRM-talk] Questions about internals

2016-07-12 Thread Daniel Patterson

Francis,

  Yes, it's a bidirectional Dijkstra search.  The Wikipedia page for CH 
describes it, so I won't repeat it here:  
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contraction_hierarchies#Querying 

  "Core nodes" are uncontracted nodes.  `osrm-contract` has the option to not 
fully contract the edge-based graph (using the `--core` command-line 
parameter).  In this case, the search needs to be modified when it comes across 
nodes that are uncontracted.  The purpose of this feature is to allow faster 
pre-processing, at the expense of query-time performance.

  If you don't use the `--core` parameter, everything gets contracted, and 
there are no core nodes.

daniel

> On Jul 12, 2016, at 6:51 AM, Francis Giraldeau  
> wrote:
> 
> Hello!
> 
> I'm digging into the internals of OSRM. The Processing Flow wiki page is 
> quite informative, here are few additional questions. I can edit the wiki 
> with the answers.  
> 
> About the routing algorithm: when inspecting RoutingStep, there are forward 
> and backward heap, so it looks like bidirectional Dijkstra, but the 
> documentation states that the algorithm is based on contraction hierarchies. 
> What's the trick?
> 
> In the code, we see that some nodes are "core nodes". What does that mean?
> 
> Thanks for your help!
> 
> Francis
> -- 
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Re: [Talk-it] relazione per linea autobus e rotonde

2016-07-12 Thread Federico Cortese

2016-07-12 11:09 GMT+02:00 mbranco :
> Dalla wiki per route=bus [1] direi che:
>
> 1) i ruoli "backward" e "forward" servono comunque nella relazione, anche se
> sdoppiata in "andata" e "ritorno",  perchè si riferiscono alla "direction of
> the way" (io sono abituato ad impostare solo "backward" essendo "forward" il
> default, o almeno così Josm interpreta la direzione delle frecce
> visualizzate nell'ultima colonna della relazione).
>
Quello è lo schema vecchio, nel nuovo non servono perchè si spezza la
linea in più relazioni.

Dalla descrizione del nuovo schema:
"Each direction or variant of a route is represented by a separate relation.
Each direction of a route should be tagged as a separate relation. If
a route has several variants (e.g. different way at weekend), these
variants should also be in separate relations.
The roles alternate, forward and backward should not be used any more."

Questo permette di includere nella stessa relazione anche le varianti,
cosa che col vecchio schema non era possibile.

> 2) per stop e platform va bene indicarli come nodi, ed essendo richiesto
> solo che "The order of the members in the relation should be identical to
> the order of the stops in the timetable" , trovo più "pulito" inserirli
> tutti in fondo anzichè alternati alle way (la relazione è così più
> leggibile)
>

Anche io sono solito inserirli in ordine
(stop,platform,stop,platform,etc.) alla fine della relazione.

>
> Quindi secondo me va bene come l'aveva fatta Aury, senza spezzarla in più
> relazioni e mantenendo backward/forward.
>
Certo che va bene, col metodo vecchio.
Col public_transport:version=2 i role non andrebbero messi.

Ciao
Federico

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[Talk-it] Mancata attribuzione App Quechua Tracking

2016-07-12 Thread Andrea Lattmann

Ciao ragazzi, sul play store ho trovato l' app in oggetto ma Dicono che 
sono mappe OSM, ma la licenza ecc ecc? A me non sembra che sia un attribuzione 
corretta!

Andrea Lattmann

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Re: [OSM-talk] What3words

2016-07-12 Thread john whelan

>We're not PR people. We're engineers and developers, and communicate as
such.

I don't think its called communication.  Communication is discussing ideas
and respecting others point of view.

I may see issues in what is being suggested I may have concerns about the
ideas but communication should be limited to issues and concerns.

These days we accomplish more by working in teams but to do that you have
to be able to communicate your ideas to others.

The soft skills are essential.  I used to work through one of the admin
assistants who ran the Avon catalog and she would show the new system to
her clients as they came into the office, we noted their feedback.

When we sent upper management in to do a presentation on the new system
they were met with Oh we know about that next agenda item.  They came back
perplexed as they'd never seen anything from IT go thrugh so smoothly but
we never let on how we'd done it.

Cheerio John

On 12 July 2016 at 07:34, Iván Sánchez  wrote:

> El Martes 12. julio 2016 14.12.06 Heather Leson escribió:
> > Well, slightly off-topic but I am often perplexed by the vitriol in OSM.
>
> Let me quote one of my personal heroes, Eric Raymond, from the FAQ in
> http://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#keepcool :
>
>
> «Much of what looks like rudeness in hacker circles is not intended to give
> offense. Rather, it's the product of the direct, cut-through-the-bullshit
> communications style that is natural to people who are more concerned about
> solving problems than making others feel warm and fuzzy.»
>
>
> We're not PR people. We're engineers and developers, and communicate as
> such.
>
>
> --
> Iván Sánchez Ortega  
> 
>
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] meetup in Mechelen, this Thursday

2016-07-12 Thread Karel Adams

Onder voorbehoud: de werken aan de Nekkerspoel betreffen voorzover ik 
weet enkel het gedeelte oostelijk van het station, naar de Libertuskerk 
toe en verder, en raken dus niet aan de omgeving van de Veemarkt.
Maar ik sta zeker open voor een voorstel in Mechelen-Noord, zelf heb ik 
geen flauw idee aldaar.

Karel

On 12-07-16 12:35, Glenn Plas wrote:

On 12-07-16 14:05, joost schouppe wrote:

How, ik wil het wel aanpassen hoor! Ik ken Mechelen zelf helemaal niet.

Glenn, vind jij die Hanekeef OK? Of heb je nog een suggestie voor iets
anders?

WIFI is niet zo belangrijk want heel vaak werkt je eigen hotspot
uiteindelijk toch weer beter. Vooral belangrijk dat je er een beetje
rustig kan zitten en elkaar horen.


Ik ken dat niet, ben niet zo'n uitgangstype, als ik de bar dus al ken :)

Maar mechelen noord is idd gemakkelijker dan vismarkt al denk ik dat
daar wegenwerken doorgaan, kans is groot als je met de auto bent dat je
moet rondrijden

https://www.mechelen.be/vernieuwing-nekkerspoel





Op 12 juli 2016 13:49 schreef Glenn Plas >:

 Idd, ik vrees dat Joost vooral naar WIFI heeft gezocht, maar persoonlijk
 zou ik daar men laptop niet echt meenemen/opengooien.  Best wel
 feesttent daar :)



 On 12-07-16 13:41, Karel Adams wrote:
 >
 > De locatie is toch wel behoorlijk ongelukkig gekozen:
 bereikbaarheid is
 > beperkt, zowel per auto als per openbaar vervoer.
 > Als het dan toch een bruine kroeg in het Mechelse moet zijn (en
 daar is
 > niks mis mee!) waarom dan niet d'Hanekeef (op wandelafstand van
 station
 > Nekkerspoel, en van de bus"terminal" op de Veemarkt)?
 >
 > Maar oke, ik doe mijn best om erbij te zijn, op de Vismarkt dus. kZal
 > wel niet te lang blijven, ik ben nu eenmaal een ochtendtype.
 Ontmoeting
 > met de drinkwaterfonteintjesspecialist zal dus wellicht voor een
 > andere keer zijn ;)
 >
 > Karel Adams
 > Haacht
 >
 >
 > On 12-07-16 11:23, joost schouppe wrote:
 >> Hi,
 >>
 >> We're finally having another informal mapper meetup, and it looks
 like
 >> it's going to be a success. All mappers, data consumers and other
 >> interested people welcome.
 >>
 >> Details and registration
 >> here: http://www.meetup.com/OpenStreetMap-Belgium/events/232022440/
 >> (7 regsitered and I believe Glenn and Ben L. are coming too)
 >>
 >> Thursday July 14th
 >> Bar Popular, Vismarkt 1, Mechelen
 >> from 7 p.m.
 >>
 >>
 >> --
 >> Joost @
 >> Openstreetmap
 >>  | Twitter
 >>  | LinkedIn
 >>  | Meetup
 >> 
 >>
 >>
 >> ___
 >> Talk-be mailing list
 >> Talk-be@openstreetmap.org 
 >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
 >
 >
 >
 > ___
 > Talk-be mailing list
 > Talk-be@openstreetmap.org 
 > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
 >


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Re: [OSM-talk] Automated edits code of conduct

2016-07-12 Thread Frederik Ramm

Hi,

On 07/12/2016 03:03 AM, tuxayo wrote:
> The questions is how legitimate are they. To know if we can enforce them
> strictly.

Enforcing anything "strictly" is likely to cause problems. Rules can
only be enforced strictly if they are so well written that any idiot can
enforce them by simply following the instructions ;)

For example, a few years ago we had a user called "worst-fixer" or so
who did a couple of large-scale edits removing the "created-by" tag. Now
this was a mechanical edit against the rules, and there was a consensus
in the community to remove those unwanted tags piecemeal instead of
creating a new version for hundreds of thousands of objects, needlessly.

Strictly enforcing rules would have meant reverting all these edits but
that would have been quite silly (causing another extra version to be
created), so they were allowed to stand.

The rules we have are guidelines, and they depend on respectful human
beings letting themselves be guided by them while trying to reach a
common goal, together. The rules are not made for being followed
blindly, "by the letter". Having such rules would put us firmly into
Wikipedia territory and open us up to "lawyering" on the part of those
who commit mischief but found a loophole in a rule that seems to allow it.

> That would also allow DWG members to intervene with a greater legitimacy
> because it would not come from their status.

Having a DWG whose legitimacy comes from rules would allow everyone to
start endless discussions about DWG's interpretation of the rules, or
finding loopholes in the wording. This is what happens in Wikipedia and
it allows troublemakers to waste an awful lot of volunteer time by
posing as innocent, rule-abiding people.

> I agree that showing them at sign up wouldn't help. However it's to be
> expected that first time mass edits are done without knowing the AECoC
> as nothing more than the JOSM search and replace tool is needed. Is not
> like importing which require more documentation.

Perhaps we could make JOSM cleverer in detecting such cases and alerting
people to the rules. JOSM already pops up tons of warnings - about
moving lots of nodes, about displaced aerial imagery, etc. - it could
also say "you're changing a lot of objects over a geographically large
area at the same time and you haven't zoomed in on any, are you sure you
have read the rules..."

> The reporting of AECoC violations could be done in a dedicated open
> mailing list so we could have accountability about how these issues are
> handled.
> *Any thoughts about this? This is a concrete proposal.*

DWG is happy about every case that the community manages to handle
between themselves, without DWG having to get involved. If such a
mailing list would help taking some of the load off DWG's shoulders and
DWG would then only deal with those cases that the community can't
handle or where things aren't clear enough, sure that would be great.

>> I'm all for discussing the rules we have, but I'd like to know what
>> exactly the problem is. "There has been no vote on these rules" is not
>> the honest reason for this thread

> Why? Considering the standards required for tags and automated edits,
> not having comparable ones for the content of the AECoC is inconsistent
> compared to it's importance.

The rules about automated edits stem from their ability to upset many
people in the community. Reverting an automated edit will usually only
upset one person. It is a logical fallacy to believe that just because
automated edits are a problem that needs to be regulated, the reverting
of automated edits needs to be regulated as well.

Bye
Frederik

-- 
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] meetup in Mechelen, this Thursday

2016-07-12 Thread Glenn Plas

On 12-07-16 14:05, joost schouppe wrote:
> How, ik wil het wel aanpassen hoor! Ik ken Mechelen zelf helemaal niet.
> 
> Glenn, vind jij die Hanekeef OK? Of heb je nog een suggestie voor iets
> anders? 
> 
> WIFI is niet zo belangrijk want heel vaak werkt je eigen hotspot
> uiteindelijk toch weer beter. Vooral belangrijk dat je er een beetje
> rustig kan zitten en elkaar horen.


Ik ken dat niet, ben niet zo'n uitgangstype, als ik de bar dus al ken :)

Maar mechelen noord is idd gemakkelijker dan vismarkt al denk ik dat
daar wegenwerken doorgaan, kans is groot als je met de auto bent dat je
moet rondrijden

https://www.mechelen.be/vernieuwing-nekkerspoel


> 
> 
> 
> Op 12 juli 2016 13:49 schreef Glenn Plas  >:
> 
> Idd, ik vrees dat Joost vooral naar WIFI heeft gezocht, maar persoonlijk
> zou ik daar men laptop niet echt meenemen/opengooien.  Best wel
> feesttent daar :)
> 
> 
> 
> On 12-07-16 13:41, Karel Adams wrote:
> >
> > De locatie is toch wel behoorlijk ongelukkig gekozen:
> bereikbaarheid is
> > beperkt, zowel per auto als per openbaar vervoer.
> > Als het dan toch een bruine kroeg in het Mechelse moet zijn (en
> daar is
> > niks mis mee!) waarom dan niet d'Hanekeef (op wandelafstand van
> station
> > Nekkerspoel, en van de bus"terminal" op de Veemarkt)?
> >
> > Maar oke, ik doe mijn best om erbij te zijn, op de Vismarkt dus. kZal
> > wel niet te lang blijven, ik ben nu eenmaal een ochtendtype.
> Ontmoeting
> > met de drinkwaterfonteintjesspecialist zal dus wellicht voor een
> > andere keer zijn ;)
> >
> > Karel Adams
> > Haacht
> >
> >
> > On 12-07-16 11:23, joost schouppe wrote:
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> We're finally having another informal mapper meetup, and it looks
> like
> >> it's going to be a success. All mappers, data consumers and other
> >> interested people welcome.
> >>
> >> Details and registration
> >> here: http://www.meetup.com/OpenStreetMap-Belgium/events/232022440/
> >> (7 regsitered and I believe Glenn and Ben L. are coming too)
> >>
> >> Thursday July 14th
> >> Bar Popular, Vismarkt 1, Mechelen
> >> from 7 p.m.
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Joost @
> >> Openstreetmap
> >>  | Twitter
> >>  | LinkedIn
> >>  | Meetup
> >> 
> >>
> >>
> >> ___
> >> Talk-be mailing list
> >> Talk-be@openstreetmap.org 
> >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Talk-be mailing list
> > Talk-be@openstreetmap.org 
> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
> >
> 
> 
> ___
> Talk-be mailing list
> Talk-be@openstreetmap.org 
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Joost @
> Openstreetmap
>  | Twitter
>  | LinkedIn
>  | Meetup
> 
> 
> 
> ___
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> 


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Re: [OSM-talk-be] meetup in Mechelen, this Thursday

2016-07-12 Thread joost schouppe

How, ik wil het wel aanpassen hoor! Ik ken Mechelen zelf helemaal niet.

Glenn, vind jij die Hanekeef OK? Of heb je nog een suggestie voor iets
anders?

WIFI is niet zo belangrijk want heel vaak werkt je eigen hotspot
uiteindelijk toch weer beter. Vooral belangrijk dat je er een beetje rustig
kan zitten en elkaar horen.



Op 12 juli 2016 13:49 schreef Glenn Plas :

> Idd, ik vrees dat Joost vooral naar WIFI heeft gezocht, maar persoonlijk
> zou ik daar men laptop niet echt meenemen/opengooien.  Best wel
> feesttent daar :)
>
>
>
> On 12-07-16 13:41, Karel Adams wrote:
> >
> > De locatie is toch wel behoorlijk ongelukkig gekozen: bereikbaarheid is
> > beperkt, zowel per auto als per openbaar vervoer.
> > Als het dan toch een bruine kroeg in het Mechelse moet zijn (en daar is
> > niks mis mee!) waarom dan niet d'Hanekeef (op wandelafstand van station
> > Nekkerspoel, en van de bus"terminal" op de Veemarkt)?
> >
> > Maar oke, ik doe mijn best om erbij te zijn, op de Vismarkt dus. kZal
> > wel niet te lang blijven, ik ben nu eenmaal een ochtendtype. Ontmoeting
> > met de drinkwaterfonteintjesspecialist zal dus wellicht voor een
> > andere keer zijn ;)
> >
> > Karel Adams
> > Haacht
> >
> >
> > On 12-07-16 11:23, joost schouppe wrote:
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> We're finally having another informal mapper meetup, and it looks like
> >> it's going to be a success. All mappers, data consumers and other
> >> interested people welcome.
> >>
> >> Details and registration
> >> here: http://www.meetup.com/OpenStreetMap-Belgium/events/232022440/
> >> (7 regsitered and I believe Glenn and Ben L. are coming too)
> >>
> >> Thursday July 14th
> >> Bar Popular, Vismarkt 1, Mechelen
> >> from 7 p.m.
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Joost @
> >> Openstreetmap
> >>  | Twitter
> >>  | LinkedIn
> >>  | Meetup
> >> 
> >>
> >>
> >> ___
> >> Talk-be mailing list
> >> Talk-be@openstreetmap.org
> >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Talk-be mailing list
> > Talk-be@openstreetmap.org
> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
> >
>
>
> ___
> Talk-be mailing list
> Talk-be@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
>



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Re: [OSM-talk-be] meetup in Mechelen, this Thursday

2016-07-12 Thread Glenn Plas

Idd, ik vrees dat Joost vooral naar WIFI heeft gezocht, maar persoonlijk
zou ik daar men laptop niet echt meenemen/opengooien.  Best wel
feesttent daar :)



On 12-07-16 13:41, Karel Adams wrote:
> 
> De locatie is toch wel behoorlijk ongelukkig gekozen: bereikbaarheid is
> beperkt, zowel per auto als per openbaar vervoer.
> Als het dan toch een bruine kroeg in het Mechelse moet zijn (en daar is
> niks mis mee!) waarom dan niet d'Hanekeef (op wandelafstand van station
> Nekkerspoel, en van de bus"terminal" op de Veemarkt)?
> 
> Maar oke, ik doe mijn best om erbij te zijn, op de Vismarkt dus. kZal
> wel niet te lang blijven, ik ben nu eenmaal een ochtendtype. Ontmoeting
> met de drinkwaterfonteintjesspecialist zal dus wellicht voor een
> andere keer zijn ;)
> 
> Karel Adams
> Haacht
> 
> 
> On 12-07-16 11:23, joost schouppe wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> We're finally having another informal mapper meetup, and it looks like
>> it's going to be a success. All mappers, data consumers and other
>> interested people welcome.
>>
>> Details and registration
>> here: http://www.meetup.com/OpenStreetMap-Belgium/events/232022440/
>> (7 regsitered and I believe Glenn and Ben L. are coming too)
>>
>> Thursday July 14th
>> Bar Popular, Vismarkt 1, Mechelen
>> from 7 p.m.
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Joost @
>> Openstreetmap
>>  | Twitter
>>  | LinkedIn
>>  | Meetup
>> 
>>
>>
>> ___
>> Talk-be mailing list
>> Talk-be@openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> Talk-be mailing list
> Talk-be@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
> 


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Re: [OSM-talk-be] meetup in Mechelen, this Thursday

2016-07-12 Thread Karel Adams



De locatie is toch wel behoorlijk ongelukkig gekozen: bereikbaarheid is 
beperkt, zowel per auto als per openbaar vervoer.
Als het dan toch een bruine kroeg in het Mechelse moet zijn (en daar is 
niks mis mee!) waarom dan niet d'Hanekeef (op wandelafstand van station 
Nekkerspoel, en van de bus"terminal" op de Veemarkt)?


Maar oke, ik doe mijn best om erbij te zijn, op de Vismarkt dus. kZal 
wel niet te lang blijven, ik ben nu eenmaal een ochtendtype. Ontmoeting 
met de drinkwaterfonteintjesspecialist zal dus wellicht voor een 
andere keer zijn ;)


Karel Adams
Haacht


On 12-07-16 11:23, joost schouppe wrote:

Hi,

We're finally having another informal mapper meetup, and it looks like 
it's going to be a success. All mappers, data consumers and other 
interested people welcome.


Details and registration here: 
http://www.meetup.com/OpenStreetMap-Belgium/events/232022440/

(7 regsitered and I believe Glenn and Ben L. are coming too)

Thursday July 14th
Bar Popular, Vismarkt 1, Mechelen
from 7 p.m.


--
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Openstreetmap  | 
Twitter  | LinkedIn 
 | Meetup 




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[Talk-br] Hoje estou Mapeando o Bairro da Cohab - Recife/PE.

2016-07-12 Thread raphaelmirc .

Bom Dia Grupo.

Hoje eu Estou mapeando o Bairro da Cohab em Recife/PE.
Criando algumas ruas que estão faltando no bairro e colocando nomes nas
ruas que estão faltando...

bom mapeamento para todos!!


Att;
Um Forte Abraço,


*Raphael de Assis*
Recife/PE
raphaelm...@gmail.com
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Re: [OSM-talk] What3words

2016-07-12 Thread Iván Sánchez Ortega

El Martes 12. julio 2016 14.12.06 Heather Leson escribió:
> Well, slightly off-topic but I am often perplexed by the vitriol in OSM.

Let me quote one of my personal heroes, Eric Raymond, from the FAQ in  
http://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#keepcool :


«Much of what looks like rudeness in hacker circles is not intended to give 
offense. Rather, it's the product of the direct, cut-through-the-bullshit 
communications style that is natural to people who are more concerned about 
solving problems than making others feel warm and fuzzy.»


We're not PR people. We're engineers and developers, and communicate as such.


-- 
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Re: [Talk-it] relazione per linea autobus e rotonde

2016-07-12 Thread Andrea Lattmann

>Non ne son sicuro, ma forse il tag é inteso come il nome della rete, tipo 
>"Gela >autolinee''

Mi sa che hai ragione... 

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:network


Andrea Lattmann

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[OSM-talk-be] meetup in Mechelen, this Thursday

2016-07-12 Thread joost schouppe

Hi,

We're finally having another informal mapper meetup, and it looks like it's
going to be a success. All mappers, data consumers and other interested
people welcome.

Details and registration here:
http://www.meetup.com/OpenStreetMap-Belgium/events/232022440/
(7 regsitered and I believe Glenn and Ben L. are coming too)

Thursday July 14th
Bar Popular, Vismarkt 1, Mechelen
from 7 p.m.


-- 
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 | Meetup

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Re: [OSM-talk] What3words

2016-07-12 Thread Heather Leson

Well, slightly off-topic but I am often perplexed by the vitriol in OSM. I
even shudder to post this statement because the environment has shown
itself to be hard.

Maybe we can have conversations at SOTM about how to turn this tide in a
collaborative way.


Heather

Heather Leson
heatherle...@gmail.com
Twitter/skype: HeatherLeson
Blog: textontechs.com

On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 2:04 PM, Jóhannes Birgir Jensson 
wrote:

> I don't know if they are using the English version in Mongolia but I doubt
> it. You can already swap to 8 other languages on their website (top right
> option).
>
> I did discuss Icelandic with Mapillary and they looked into available word
> sets and concluded that it was more than sufficient to make Iceland itself
> work in an Icelandic w3w implementation.
>
> The circle-jerk is strong here about w3w, they have a human readable
> solution for GPS-coordinates (which OPL isn't sadly), they've pledged to
> offer the source code if their business goes belly-up and seem to doing a
> lot of good things. I'm slightly perplexed at the extent of vitriol they
> suffer here.
>
> --JBJ
>
> Þann 12.07.2016 08:11, Janko Mihelić reit:
>
>> So they are using the english version? What good does that do to the
>> local people? It would be easier to learn the GPS coordinates.
>>
>> Janko
>>
>> uto, 12. srp 2016. u 09:47 Steve Doerr 
>> napisao je:
>>
>> On 12/07/2016 00:23, Dave F wrote:
>>>
>>> This system [...] doesn't work in the real world.

>>>
>>> It's apparently used in Mongolia as of this month. So the proof of
>>> the
>>> pudding . . .
>>>
>>> --
>>> Steve
>>>
>>> ---
>>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus [1]
>>>
>>> ___
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>>>
>>
>>
>> Links:
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>>
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Re: [Talk-it] relazione per linea autobus e rotonde

2016-07-12 Thread Cascafico Giovanni

Ho dato un occhio ad una relazione. Ho visto che il tag network lo hai
messo "local".

Non ne son sicuro, ma forse il tag é inteso come il nome della rete, tipo
"Gela autolinee'?

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Re: [OSM-talk] What3words

2016-07-12 Thread Jóhannes Birgir Jensson

I don't know if they are using the English version in Mongolia but I 
doubt it. You can already swap to 8 other languages on their website 
(top right option).


I did discuss Icelandic with Mapillary and they looked into available 
word sets and concluded that it was more than sufficient to make Iceland 
itself work in an Icelandic w3w implementation.


The circle-jerk is strong here about w3w, they have a human readable 
solution for GPS-coordinates (which OPL isn't sadly), they've pledged to 
offer the source code if their business goes belly-up and seem to doing 
a lot of good things. I'm slightly perplexed at the extent of vitriol 
they suffer here.


--JBJ

Þann 12.07.2016 08:11, Janko Mihelić reit:

So they are using the english version? What good does that do to the
local people? It would be easier to learn the GPS coordinates.

Janko

uto, 12. srp 2016. u 09:47 Steve Doerr 
napisao je:


On 12/07/2016 00:23, Dave F wrote:


This system [...] doesn't work in the real world.


It's apparently used in Mongolia as of this month. So the proof of
the
pudding . . .

--
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Re: [Talk-in] Multilingual name tagging convention in India

2016-07-12 Thread Arun Ganesh

Not having map tiles available for the various languages is definitely a
problem, which motivates one to tag in such a way just so that the local
name is visible. Efforts to create an Indic language tileserver have not
really taken off, and probably this is what we should reconsider with more
seriousness.

Experiments so far:
- http://openstreetmap.in/demo.html
 which is a little
futuristic but very flexible for as many languages as possible. One blocker
is that complex text shaping to render Indic scripts correctly is unknown
when this will happen
https://github.com/osm-in/openstreetmap.in/issues/14#issuecomment-193619651
- http://mlm.jochentopf.com looks like a good experiment worth replicating,
but there are not much details on how it was done
- http://yogiks.github.io/osm-kn/map/ World Kannada map made by Yogesh. At
the moment probably the most practical approach.

If we have a regularly updated working demo of Indic language tiles for the
major languages, this could better demonstrate the practical application of
using the name tags correctly. Anyone have other experiments to share?

On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 2:14 PM, Yogesh K S  wrote:

> I too agree with keeping the current convention of name tags for
> multilingual names. Belgium has just two languages and in context of our
> regional languages, first mapper rule can create conflicts as Arun
> indicated previously. Perhaps we should try to improve the current state of
> multilingual names in India -
> http://taginfo.openstreetmap.in/search?q=name%3A
>
> cheers,
> yogi
>
>
> On 07/05/2016 06:19 PM, I Chengappa wrote:
>
> It would help greatly if mappers could see names in other languages on a
> rendered map. I see that the demo, for instance at
> http://openstreetmap.in/demo.html#9.99/13.9372/75.6525 is still just a
> demo.
>
> On 5 July 2016 at 07:19, Srravya C  wrote:
>
>>
>> Found a little more about this topic in a discussion here
>> .
>> We could put the details about multilingual naming for India in this page
>> . So that anybody
>> referring to this page in the future for naming convention, will get an
>> idea about existing conventions followed for India.
>>
>> On Tue, Jul 5, 2016 at 8:44 AM, Thejesh GN < 
>> i...@thejeshgn.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I think the existing convention works really well. Use name tag for
>>> latin script and specific language tag for that language names. I think
>>> this makes it easy to work and also divide work.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Jul 4, 2016 11:34 PM, "Arun Ganesh"  wrote:
>>>
 Bringing this up since there are recent edits adding multilingual
 labels to the `name` tag [1][2].

 The current convention that has been followed is to use `name` for the
 local name in latin script. The reasoning if I remember was two fold:
 - English being one of the official languages, latin script is widely
 used in cities and in public signages in smaller towns. Only in villages it
 is uncommon.
 - Keeping the tagging convention simple[3], that could be used
 throughout the country in a standard way

 Keeping just one name in each tag, we have been able to avoid issues
 like the first mapper rule[4] that could cause unnecessary regional
 conflicts over ordering of scripts like in Belgium (and they have just two
 languages).

 Since we can add the regional names in their own name:lang tag, no data
 is ultimately lost, and it is upto the data consumer to choose which
 language to support for the user.

 Would be great to hear positives and negatives of this approach and how
 it benefits the public Is it time to revise this convention to be more
 regional rather than national?


 [1] http://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/40472998
 [2] http://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/40479683
 [3]
 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_India#Naming_in_different_scripts_and_languages

 --
 Arun Ganesh
 @planemad

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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Tag 'network' et 'name' pour une relation de type route départementale

2016-07-12 Thread Romain MEHUT

Le 12 juillet 2016 à 11:13, Art Penteur  a écrit :

>Il me semble assez étrange (voire néfaste) de détourner le type de
> relation "route" (qui veut dire itinéraire, ou trajet, en anglais)
> pour un autre usage.
>Même si la plupart des départementales sont nommées "RD N de
> Pétaouchnok à Trifouilly", pas grand-monde ne les emprunte en continu,
> contrairement à un itinéraire, que le bus emprunte globalement d'un
> bout à l'autre (avec parfois des variantes ou extensions)
>
> Autre problème : une "route" (au sens actuel dans OSM : càd un
> itinéraire) doit être continue : un bus ne "saute" pas d'une portion
> de route à une autre.  Une départementale n'est pas systématiquement
> continue : elle s'interrompt souvent sur quelques centaines de mètres
> (ou quelques kilomètres) qu'elle "partage" avec une autre route
> (souvent, seul le numéro le plus pett est conservé), puis reprend à un
> carrefour un peu plus loin
>
>   Donc, si on juge souhaitable de relationiser les routes
> départementales, mon avis est qu'il faut créer un nouveau type de
> relation. Je propose admin_ref :
>
> Quelque chose comme :
>
> Relation
> type=admin_ref
> admin_ref=road
> admin_level=6
> ref=D 321
>

+ 1 !
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Re: [OSM-talk] What pointing device you use for mapping?

2016-07-12 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer



sent from a phone

> Il giorno 12 lug 2016, alle ore 10:18, Oleksiy Muzalyev 
>  ha scritto:
> 
> I own three of them, including a spare one.


so you use two mice contemporarily? Wow.


Cheers,
Martin 
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Re: [Talk-it] Errore su sito openstreetmap.it

2016-07-12 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer



sent from a phone

> Il giorno 12 lug 2016, alle ore 10:59, Stefano  ha scritto:
> 
> C'è già.
> E anche l'opzione retina è abilitata (usa wordpress + maps marker, sta in 
> piedi per miracolo ;-) ).


comunque non va ;-)
Non si legge niente, tutto minuscolo 
Mapsmarker + wp da me funzionava, però ad un certo punto non ho continuato gli 
aggiornamenti, forse l'hanno rotto loro dopo?

Ti mando un screenshot?


Ciao,
Martin 
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Tag 'network' et 'name' pour une relation de type route départementale

2016-07-12 Thread Art Penteur

   Il me semble assez étrange (voire néfaste) de détourner le type de
relation "route" (qui veut dire itinéraire, ou trajet, en anglais)
pour un autre usage.
   Même si la plupart des départementales sont nommées "RD N de
Pétaouchnok à Trifouilly", pas grand-monde ne les emprunte en continu,
contrairement à un itinéraire, que le bus emprunte globalement d'un
bout à l'autre (avec parfois des variantes ou extensions)

Autre problème : une "route" (au sens actuel dans OSM : càd un
itinéraire) doit être continue : un bus ne "saute" pas d'une portion
de route à une autre.  Une départementale n'est pas systématiquement
continue : elle s'interrompt souvent sur quelques centaines de mètres
(ou quelques kilomètres) qu'elle "partage" avec une autre route
(souvent, seul le numéro le plus pett est conservé), puis reprend à un
carrefour un peu plus loin

  Donc, si on juge souhaitable de relationiser les routes
départementales, mon avis est qu'il faut créer un nouveau type de
relation. Je propose admin_ref :

Quelque chose comme :

Relation
type=admin_ref
admin_ref=road
admin_level=6
ref=D 321

Art.

Le 7 juillet 2016 à 22:23, LeTopographeFou  a écrit :
> Bonjour,
>
> Merci à tous pour vos retours. A ce que je vois les avis sont partagés. Je
> vais essayer de faire une synthèse ici.
>
> Tout d'abord je suis personnellement convaincu que les relations apportent
> un niveau d'information que des tags seuls peuvent plus difficilement
> apporter et maintenir... Les arguments opposables sont très intéressant à
> débattre mais si la conclusion de cette discussion et de savoir si oui ou
> non il faut continuer à créer ces relations, j'ai bien peur de ne pas
> changer d'avis :) . Donc je continue avec le postulat que c'est souhaitable.
>
> Toutefois quelques précisions car de ce que je lis il y a peut-être eu des
> incompréhensions.
>
> La création d'une relation ne vise pas à supprimer tous les attributs en
> commun dans ses ways (surtout si ces derniers ne caractérisent pas la
> relation en question). Cce serait détourner ce pour quoi le concept a été
> créé. L'attribut ref=* a pour moi tout son rôle autant dans la relation que
> au niveau de la way et vous noterez que je ne parle pas de le supprimer (et
> que je ne l'ai pas fait). De même qu'il n'y aurait pas de sens à mettre dans
> la relation des attributs tels que highway, oneway, surface, maxspeed... En
> revanche il en est d'autres, jugés secondaires, qui caractérisent la RD et
> qui gagneraient à être stockés en priorité dans la relation (wikipedia ?
> symbol ? network ?...). Notez le conditionnel, le "en priorité" et non pas
> "exclusivement".
>
> De tous vos commentaires voici l'architecture minimale à laquelle j’aboutis
> (qui contient une relation !) :
>
> Relation
>
> type=route
> route=road
> ref=D 321
> network=FR-78:d-road
> name (cf. plus bas)
> wikipedia (de la RD)
> Membres
>
> Way
>
> highway
> ref=D 321
> operator
>
> Way
>
> highway
> ref=D 321
> operator
>
> ...
>
> En bleu ce qui existe déjà dans OSM (et qui reste inchangé : =les ways). En
> rouge ce qui est ajouté (=la relation). En italique ce qui serait facultatif
> (en espérant que la liste de diffusion ne massacre pas le style).
>
> Dans un second temps je vois bien dans chaque relation des infos permettant
> de faire le rendu du symbol de la RD par un renderer : texte noir sur fond
> jaune. Mais pour le moment il n'y a pas de standard défini (tel que OSMC)
> donc je m’abstiens (voila un bel exemple de l'avantage des relations !).
> Donc à mettre de côté...
>
> Pour ce qui est du name=* je pense que, dans le cas de la Route Napoléon
> (qui est d'ailleurs une RN, mais l'exemple est intéressant) c'est là ou
> alt_name et name_x rentrent en scène. On peut imaginer avoir name=Route
> Napoléon et alt_name=Route nationale 85. Les moteurs de recherche (OSM,
> Internet, dans les Apps...) sont très intelligents mais entre 'D 321' et
> 'Route départementale 321' ce n'est pas le même niveau d'informations. De
> même quand on visualise l'objet OSM. J'aurai donc tendance à conserver la
> possibilité de mettre un name pour ceux qui le jugent utile. Par contre j'ai
> senti un consensus derrière le fait que dans tous les cas il ne faut pas y
> ajouter de fioriture tel que le nom du département.
>
> Pour ce qui est de la cohérence des données j'imagine aisément un check JOSM
> (ID n'intégrant pas ce concept) qui vérifie que toute way dans une relation
> de ce type, en France, contienne un tag ref identique, sinon un warning.
> Après si l'utilisateur ignore le warning...
>
> A vous lire... en attendant j'ai mis en pause le chantier (même en Essonne
> qui reste partiellement couvert).
>
> LeTopographeFou
>
>
>
> Le 06/07/2016 00:28, LeTopographeFou a écrit :
>
> Bonjour,
>
> J'ai attaqué un imposant chantier visant à améliorer la prise en compte des
> Routes Départementales (RD) françaises dans OSM. Ce chantier vise à :
>
> Faire qu'il y ait une

Re: [Talk-it] relazione per linea autobus e rotonde

2016-07-12 Thread mbranco

Dalla wiki per route=bus [1] direi che:

1) i ruoli "backward" e "forward" servono comunque nella relazione, anche se
sdoppiata in "andata" e "ritorno",  perchè si riferiscono alla "direction of
the way" (io sono abituato ad impostare solo "backward" essendo "forward" il
default, o almeno così Josm interpreta la direzione delle frecce
visualizzate nell'ultima colonna della relazione).

2) per stop e platform va bene indicarli come nodi, ed essendo richiesto
solo che "The order of the members in the relation should be identical to
the order of the stops in the timetable" , trovo più "pulito" inserirli
tutti in fondo anzichè alternati alle way (la relazione è così più
leggibile)


Quindi secondo me va bene come l'aveva fatta Aury, senza spezzarla in più
relazioni e mantenendo backward/forward.

[1] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:route%3Dbus
 




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Re: [Talk-it] Errore su sito openstreetmap.it

2016-07-12 Thread Stefano

Il giorno 12 luglio 2016 10:35, Martin Koppenhoefer 
ha scritto:

>
>
> sent from a phone
>
> > Il giorno 12 lug 2016, alle ore 09:13, Stefano  ha
> scritto:
> >
> > Fatto,
> > ma c'è ancora qualcuno che usa la mappa sul sito :|
>
>
> non quotidianamente ;-)
>
> Già che ci siamo, su retina device c'è un problema, con leaflet esiste
> un'opzione per risolvere (non posso verificare al momento, ma puoi
> guardarti il codice di osm.org che lo fa, è qualcosa tipo  name="viewport" content="width=device-width, initial-scale=1.0, maximum
> -scale=1.0, user-scalable=no" /> )
>
>
C'è già.
E anche l'opzione retina è abilitata (usa wordpress + maps marker, sta in
piedi per miracolo ;-) ).


> ciao,
> Martin
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Re: [talk-au] CC 4.0 was Re: Response regarding use of PSMA Administrative Boundaries (Australia)

2016-07-12 Thread Simon Poole

The issues are essentially:

- we did not receive special permission to distribute the data in OSM
with attribution via the website. IMHO the permission we received for
earlier versions boiled down to allowing us to sub-license on ODbL
terms. This has now been implicitly denied. CC by 4.0 does have slightly
looser attribution requirements than previous versions, and it has been
argued that these could be fulfilled by attributing on the OSM website,
however even if that would be possible it would mean that we couldn't
sub-licence the data in question and would have to, in some form, pass
on the specific terms downstream. That is not only highly impractical,
but likely would cause a conflict with our contributor terms.

- the additional requirement to adhere to the AUS privacy regulations
was not addressed in the response, which in itself would be a killer.

As I pointed out on the legal talk mailing list, all of the above are
not issues for the usual suspects that offer proprietary data, google,
here, tomtom and so on, because they maintain tight control over their
downstream data users, but are a big issues for all projects that
produce open data and want to distribute their products on a unified
licence.

Simon



Am 11.07.2016 um 11:45 schrieb Andrew Davidson:
> Is the problem CC 4.0 or is it the riders that have been added? I'm
> just wondering if this is a general problem with the other data sets
> on data.gov.au.
>
> On 10/07/16 14:06, cleary wrote:
>> Feedback from the legal-talk list is that the reply from the Department
>> of Prime Minister and Cabinet is not sufficient and therefore we cannot
>> use PSMA datasets in OSM.
>>
>
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Re: [Talk-in] Multilingual name tagging convention in India

2016-07-12 Thread Yogesh K S

I too agree with keeping the current convention of name tags for
multilingual names. Belgium has just two languages and in context of our
regional languages, first mapper rule can create conflicts as Arun
indicated previously. Perhaps we should try to improve the current state
of multilingual names in India -
http://taginfo.openstreetmap.in/search?q=name%3A

cheers,
yogi

On 07/05/2016 06:19 PM, I Chengappa wrote:
> It would help greatly if mappers could see names in other languages on
> a rendered map. I see that the demo, for instance at
> http://openstreetmap.in/demo.html#9.99/13.9372/75.6525 is still just a
> demo. 
>
> On 5 July 2016 at 07:19, Srravya C  > wrote:
>
>
> Found a little more about this topic in a discussion here
> 
> .
> We could put the details about multilingual naming for India
> in this page
> . So that
> anybody referring to this page in the future for naming
> convention, will get an idea about existing conventions followed
> for India. 
>
> On Tue, Jul 5, 2016 at 8:44 AM, Thejesh GN  > wrote:
>
> I think the existing convention works really well. Use name
> tag for latin script and specific language tag for that
> language names. I think this makes it easy to work and also
> divide work.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Jul 4, 2016 11:34 PM, "Arun Ganesh"
> > wrote:
>
> Bringing this up since there are recent edits adding
> multilingual labels to the `name` tag [1][2].
>
> The current convention that has been followed is to use
> `name` for the local name in latin script. The reasoning
> if I remember was two fold:
> - English being one of the official languages, latin
> script is widely used in cities and in public signages in
> smaller towns. Only in villages it is uncommon.
> - Keeping the tagging convention simple[3], that could be
> used throughout the country in a standard way
>
> Keeping just one name in each tag, we have been able to
> avoid issues like the first mapper rule[4] that could
> cause unnecessary regional conflicts over ordering of
> scripts like in Belgium (and they have just two languages).
>
> Since we can add the regional names in their own name:lang
> tag, no data is ultimately lost, and it is upto the data
> consumer to choose which language to support for the user.
>
> Would be great to hear positives and negatives of this
> approach and how it benefits the public Is it time to
> revise this convention to be more regional rather than
> national?
>
>
> [1] http://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/40472998
> [2] http://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/40479683
> [3] 
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_India#Naming_in_different_scripts_and_languages
>
> -- 
> Arun Ganesh
> @planemad
>
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Re: [Talk-it] Errore su sito openstreetmap.it

2016-07-12 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer



sent from a phone

> Il giorno 12 lug 2016, alle ore 09:13, Stefano  ha scritto:
> 
> Fatto,
> ma c'è ancora qualcuno che usa la mappa sul sito :|


non quotidianamente ;-)

Già che ci siamo, su retina device c'è un problema, con leaflet esiste 
un'opzione per risolvere (non posso verificare al momento, ma puoi guardarti il 
codice di osm.org che lo fa, è qualcosa tipo  )

ciao,
Martin 
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[OSM-talk] What pointing device you use for mapping?

2016-07-12 Thread Oleksiy Muzalyev

I use Nexus Silent Mouse SM-8500B [1]. This mouse does not produce a 
"click" sound, though there is a tactile click. This type of soundless 
mouse makes a difference while working in an OSM editor. I like 
SM-8500B. I own three of them, including a spare one. It works fine on 
Mac and W10.


There are numerous innovative pointing devices available nowadays, - 
graphics tablets, vertical mice, pencil mouse, etc. If you have a 
positive experience employing an innovative pointing device design for 
mapping, please, let me know.


[1] https://nexustek.us/mice/sm-8500

Best regards,

Oleksiy


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Re: [Talk-it] OSM per gestione sentieri?

2016-07-12 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer



sent from a phone

Il giorno 12 lug 2016, alle ore 09:51, Marco Barbieri 
 ha scritto:

>> Devo creare una relazione che leghi i guidepost al Parco?
> Direi proprio di no. 


+1, le relazioni servono soltanto lì dove non vi è collegamento spaziale (dove 
una cosa non è contenuta nell'altra ma logicamente è connessa). 


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[OSM-talk-be] Artwork in OSM + Fwd: [Wikimedia Belgium] Invitation: Freedom of Panorama in Belgium Launch Event on Friday

2016-07-12 Thread Marc Gemis

So, by the end of the week we can  start sharing our pictures of the
Atomium. :-)

I've made a Mapcontrib App [1] which shows you all artwork in the
neighborhood. I haven't found a nice way to include the image link,
but it should allow you to go hunting for artwork without images.
A similar map made with umap [2]. The difference is that the
Mapcontrib App should allow you to add new artwork (nodes) to OSM when
you have an account, also from your smartphones

If someone knows how to solve the formatting of URLs in Mapcontrib
and/or umap feel free to let me know.


regards


m


[1] http://www.mapcontrib.xyz/t/c18ee9-Artwork
[2] http://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/art-in-town_91815#16/51.0887/4.3661


-- Forwarded message --
From: Dimitar Parvanov Dimitrov 
Date: 2016-07-11 10:48 GMT+02:00
Subject: [Wikimedia Belgium] Invitation: Freedom of Panorama in
Belgium Launch Event on Friday
To: Wikimedia Belgium general list 


NL: Nederlandse versie hieronder
FR: version française ci-dessous
--

Wikimedia Belgium has the honour of inviting you to the Freedom of
Panorama Launch Reception!

The Belgian Federal Parliament has recently adopted a full Freedom of
Panorama legislation. This means that the beauty of Belgium can now
freely be depicted on Wikipedia articles and can widely be shared
online. The new law comes into force on 15 July 2016.

In order to celebrate the beginning of this new outburst of
creativity, we are inviting you to an evening reception where we will
show you some of the astonishing images that we can now share, enrich
several Wikipedia articles with photographs and share with you our
plans for future projects that are now possible.

The reception will take place on 15 July 2016 at the Royal Institute
for Cultural Heritage in Brussels and starts at 19:00. The doors will
open at 18:30. After the a brief presentation and uploading ceremony
we will offer us a snack and a drink and we have the opportunity to
talk with each other.

The event will be accessible to all, but we would welcome a
confirmation of your presence by e-mail to i...@wikimedia.org

https://be.wikimedia.org/wiki/Invitation_to_the_Freedom_of_Panorama_in_Belgium_launch_event

--
--

Wikimedia België heeft de eer u uit te nodigen op de receptie van de
invoering van Panoramavrijheid in België!

Het Belgisch Federaal Parlement heeft recentelijk wetgeving voor een
volledige Panoramavrijheid aangenomen. Dit betekent dat de schoonheid
van België vrijelijk afgebeeld kan worden in Wikipedia-artikelen en
die wijd online verspreid kunnen worden. De nieuwe wetgeving wordt op
15 juli 2016 van kracht.

Om dit begin van deze nieuwe uitbarsting van creativiteit te vieren,
nodigen wij u uit op onze receptie waar we u enkele van de
verbazingwekkende afbeeldingen zullen tonen die we nu met u kunnen
delen, waar we de diverse Wikipedia-artikelen verrijken met foto's en
waar we u kenbaar maken wat onze plannen zijn voor toekomstige
projecten die nu mogelijk zijn geworden.

De receptie zal plaatsvinden op 15 juli 2016 in het Koninklijk
Instituut voor het Kunstpatrimonium in Brussel en start om 19:00. De
deuren openen om 18:30. Na een korte presentatie en een ceremonie met
de upload van een eerste foto, bieden we een hapje en een drankje aan
en kan er met elkaar nagepraat worden.

Dit evenement is voor iedereen toegankelijk, maar het zou fijn zijn
als uw komst kunt bevestigen door een e-mail te sturen op
i...@wikimedia.org.

https://be.wikimedia.org/wiki/Uitnodiging_voor_de_receptie_van_de_invoering_van_Panoramavrijheid_in_Belgi%C3%AB

--
--

Wikimédia Belgique a l'honneur de vous inviter à sa Réception pour
célébrer la Liberté de Panorama !

Le Parlement Fédéral belge a récemment adopté une législation complète
sur la Liberté de Panorama. Cela signifie que la beauté de la Belgique
pourra désormais être librement dépeinte sur les articles de Wikipédia
et largement partagée en ligne. La nouvelle loi entre en vigueur ce 15
juillet 2016.

Afin de célébrer le début de cette explosion de créativité, nous vous
invitons à une réception en soirée où nous vous montrerons
quelques-unes des images étonnantes que nous pourrons désormais
partager, nous enrichirons plusieurs articles de Wikipédia avec des
photos et nous partagerons avec vous nos idées pour les projets à
venir qui sont désormais réalisables !

La réception se tiendra à l'IRPA (Institut Royal du Patrimoine
Artistique) le 15 juillet 2016 à 19h. Les portes seront ouvertes dès
18h30. Après une courte présentation et une cérémonie de
téléchargement d'images, nous vous offrirons un toast autour duquel il
nous sera possible de nous rencontrer.

L'événement est accessible à tout le

Re: [OSM-talk] What3words

2016-07-12 Thread Janko Mihelić

So they are using the english version? What good does that do to the local
people? It would be easier to learn the GPS coordinates.

Janko

uto, 12. srp 2016. u 09:47 Steve Doerr  napisao je:

> On 12/07/2016 00:23, Dave F wrote:
>
> > This system [...] doesn't work in the real world.
>
> It's apparently used in Mongolia as of this month. So the proof of the
> pudding . . .
>
> --
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>
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Re: [Talk-it] su natural=spring (ancora...)

2016-07-12 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer



sent from a phone

> Il giorno 12 lug 2016, alle ore 09:26, demon.box  ha 
> scritto:
> 
> poniamo il caso di quando esce dal terreno ma sotto c'è anche una vasca di
> cemento... metto comunque natural=spring?
> 
> e quando il tubo esce sempre dal terreno ma qualche metro a monte c'è un
> serbatoio dell'acqua, sarà comunque natural=spring?


natural=spring è il punto (naturale) dove l'acqua dell'acquifero esce e va in 
superficie. A prescindere della forma fisica. In Italiano : sorgente. Naturale 
nel senso che non c'è bisogno di pompa o pozzo, ma non vuol dire che non c'è 
stato intervento umano nella forma fisica.

ciao ,
Martin 
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Re: [OSM-talk] Automated edits code of conduct

2016-07-12 Thread Christoph Hormann

On Tuesday 12 July 2016, tuxayo wrote:
> > Remember OSM is largely a do-ocracy - those who put work into
> > developing the rules have a significant influence on their content.
> >  This does not make them illegitimate.
>
> The questions is how legitimate are they. To know if we can enforce
> them strictly.

Legitimacy in an open community like OSM is a difficult question which 
in the framework of a do-ocracy is solved in a relatively practical 
way.  But as said the rules are no laws.

I would suggest to look at things more in terms of consistency - OSM is 
all about local knowledge and mappers mapping their day-to-day 
environment.  It is inconsistent with this aim to allow others to mess 
around in this local mapping through automated edits without looking at 
individual features one by one.  

> > Both participating in creating and improving the rules as well as
> > working on the DWG making sure mappers comply with the rules are
> > open to everyone.
>
> Is joining the DWG necessary to enforce these rules/guidelines?

No, as also said elsewhere every mapper can - if he/she sees edits that 
are for example factually incorrect or violate the rules of automated 
edits, imports etc. revert those changes, but of course after 
contacting the mappers in question and maybe asking them to fix it 
themselves and of course only if your knowledge of the area in question 
is sufficient to make such assessment.

This happens more often than you probably think but ultimately it also 
does not work in many cases because not every mapper is willing or 
capable to do this.  

And - since you always talk about enforcing rules - this is generally 
not about enforcement, this is about maintaining a friendly and 
consistent environment for normal mappers.

-- 
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http://www.imagico.de/

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Re: [Talk-it] OSM per gestione sentieri?

2016-07-12 Thread Marco Barbieri

>
> Ciao,
> seguendo i vostri consigli ho caricato, changeset:40625409, la segnaletica
> verticale con i
> seguentiTags:fixme=resurveyhiking=yesinformation=guidepostoperator=Parco
> locale Bosco del Rugaretotourism=informationref = [inserito il codice]
> prima domanda:Devo creare una relazione che leghi i guidepost al Parco?
>
Direi proprio di no.


> Passando a caricare le tracce dei sentieri, che ho capito dover essere
> delle relazioni che legano ways già esistenti, seconda domanda:Se un
> percorso inizia a metà di una way esistente, devo aggiungere un nodo per
> spezzarla e far iniziare la nuova relazione percorso?
>
Esatto. Devi spezzare la geometria del tracciato dove inizia il tuo
percorso.


-- 
*Marco Barbieri / *Cartografo
marcobarbi...@webmapp.it
www.webmapp.it
+39 050 55 25 74 / +39 347 683 03 13


Webmapp is made by:
Net7
Via Marche 10 / 56123 Pisa

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Re: [OSM-talk] What3words

2016-07-12 Thread Steve Doerr


On 12/07/2016 00:23, Dave F wrote:


This system [...] doesn't work in the real world.


It's apparently used in Mongolia as of this month. So the proof of the 
pudding . . .


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Steve

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Re: [Talk-cz] WeeklyOSM CZ 310

2016-07-12 Thread Miroslav Suchy

Dne 12.7.2016 v 09:04 Tom Ka napsal(a):
> Téma čísla: Nevyužité fotky rozcestníků

Když už to je jako téma: Vrstva chybných rozcestníku (už/zase) nefunguje.

Mirek

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Re: [Talk-it] OSM per gestione sentieri ?

2016-07-12 Thread girarsi_liste

Il 12/07/2016 00:50, Luca Moiana ha scritto:
> Ciao,
> seguendo i vostri consigli ho caricato, changeset:40625409, la segnaletica 
> verticale con i 
> seguentiTags:fixme=resurveyhiking=yesinformation=guidepostoperator=Parco 
> locale Bosco del Rugaretotourism=informationref = [inserito il codice]
> prima domanda:Devo creare una relazione che leghi i guidepost al Parco?

Per me la relazione dei guidepost deve essere legata al tracciato,
semmai per la "proprietà" del parco basta il tag operator=*, visto
imagino si occupi anche della manutenzione dello stesso.

Per le altre domande passo, non sono così esperto.



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Re: [Talk-it] su natural=spring (ancora...)

2016-07-12 Thread girarsi_liste

Il 12/07/2016 09:26, demon.box ha scritto:
> girarsi_liste wrote
>> Su un sentiero con un bocchettone che esce da cosa? da un muro o da un
>> terreno?
> 
> poniamo il caso di quando esce dal terreno ma sotto c'è anche una vasca di
> cemento... metto comunque natural=spring?
> 

Per me natural=spring + amenity=fountain

> e quando il tubo esce sempre dal terreno ma qualche metro a monte c'è un
> serbatoio dell'acqua, sarà comunque natural=spring?
> 
> 

Quà entriamo proprio nel tecnico (e non credo di esserne così degno
rappresentante).

Se sono vasche di decantazione, vanno taggate per conto suo, la "spina"
dell'acqua con sotto una vasca, legno o cemento o altro materiale che
sia, è amenity=fountain, con o senza rubinetto.

Se sotto il rubinetto non c'è vasca di raccolta, o sono vasche di
raccolta piccole tipiche dei "pilastrini" taggo con
amenity=drinking_water (vedi foto sulla pagina dedicata al tag).

natural=spring per me ci sta se è "direttamente" attaccato alla sorgiva
il bocchettone, o canaletto come lo si vuol chiamare e non ha
particolari interventi dell'uomo al di fuori del bocchettone per
facilitare "l'abbeveraggio".



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Re: [Talk-it] su natural=spring (ancora...)

2016-07-12 Thread demon.box

girarsi_liste wrote
> Su un sentiero con un bocchettone che esce da cosa? da un muro o da un
> terreno?

poniamo il caso di quando esce dal terreno ma sotto c'è anche una vasca di
cemento... metto comunque natural=spring?

e quando il tubo esce sempre dal terreno ma qualche metro a monte c'è un
serbatoio dell'acqua, sarà comunque natural=spring?




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Re: [Talk-it] Errore su sito openstreetmap.it

2016-07-12 Thread Stefano

2016-07-11 23:46 GMT+02:00 :

> Ciao ragazzi.
> Chi si occupa di openstreetmap.it?
> guardate al link [1] MapQuest non permette l' accesso diretto alle tiles.
>

Fatto,
ma c'è ancora qualcuno che usa la mappa sul sito :|


>
> [1] https://openstreetmap.it/la-mappa/
>
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[Talk-cz] WeeklyOSM CZ 310

2016-07-12 Thread Tom Ka

Ahoj, je dostupné vydání 310 týdeníku weeklyOSM:

http://www.weeklyosm.eu/cz/archives/7765

Téma čísla: Nevyužité fotky rozcestníků

* Deskovka pomocí OSM.
* Vizualizace stárnutí uzlů.
* Google zpřísňuje podmínky Map.
* Diskuze k editacím Maps.me.
* Mapzen hledá zaměstnance.
* 6000 let světových měst.

Pěkné počtení...

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Re: [Talk-it] relazione per linea autobus e rotonde

2016-07-12 Thread Aury88

Federico Cortese wrote
> 
> - il "public transport"
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Public_Transport,
> che è lo schema più nuovo: la linea viene spezzata in più relazioni,
> in questo modo non ci si trova mai nella situazione in cui il bus
> ripassa sullo stesso tratto, quindi non si usano i role backward e
> forward; tutte le relazioni vengono poi raggruppate in una relazione
> master.
> Alcune delle difficoltà che segnalavi sopra erano dovute proprio al
> fatto che non avevi chiara la distinzione tra i due diversi sistemi di
> mappatura.

ma quindi mi basta togliere il ruolo alle vie per essere conforme allo
schema public transport?
da me le vie percorse due volte in sensi diversi non è dovuto all'andata e
ritorno della linea (e quindi mappabile tramite due relazioni: una che va da
A a B e l'altra che va da B e A)  ma al semplice fatto che la linea, pur
essendo circolare, si interseca a formare una sorta di "8": [1][2][3]
[1]http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/6399507
[2]http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/6403885
[3]http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/6404256

devo comunque spezzarla (tipo rotta 1 da A-(c)-B e rotta 2 da B-(d)-A)?




-
Ciao,
Aury
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Re: [Talk-it] relazione per linea autobus e rotonde

2016-07-12 Thread Federico Cortese

On Jul 12, 2016 08:43, "Aury88"  wrote:
>
> ma gli autobus a gela non hanno ne andata ne ritorno; come già detto
> percorrono rotte circolari che pero in alcuni punti si intersecano e
> percorrono tratti già percorsi nel senso opposto [1][2][3].
>

Col sistema legacy avrai un'unica relazione coi role backward e forward,
col public transport puoi spezzare in più relazioni. Non ha importanza
l'andata o il ritorno, decidi tu come spezzare la linea, anche a Lecce
avevo linee circolari (mi pare 29 e 30 o 31 ora non ricordo).
Poi col public transport si aggiunge per ogni fermata lo stop_position
sulla way nel punto dove il bus si ferma e il platform dove le persone
aspettano il bus. Questi due elementi si inseriscono in ordine nella
relazione coi role stop e platform.

Ciao
Federico
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Re: [Talk-it] relazione per linea autobus e rotonde

2016-07-12 Thread Aury88

dieterdreist wrote
> sulla mappa vedi solo 2: una andata, una ritorno. La terza contiene solo
> le due relazioni di sopra (non so nemmeno se serve). Si fanno queste 2/3
> relazioni perché diventa molto più semplice nella gestione rispetto ad una
> relazione complicata.
> 
> 
> ciao,
> Martin 

ma gli autobus a gela non hanno ne andata ne ritorno; come già detto
percorrono rotte circolari che pero in alcuni punti si intersecano e
percorrono tratti già percorsi nel senso opposto [1][2][3].

[1]http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/6399507
[2]http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/6403885
[3]http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/6404256



-
Ciao,
Aury
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