[Talk-cz] Novy kruhac v Brne

[Jakub Jelen]

Zdravim,

pred par dny nam prestaveli silnici v Brne na kruhac a tak jsem se
odhodlal k trochu "vetsi" uprave v OSM, aby mapa odpovidala realite. A
protoze jsem prece jenom stale zacatecnik (uz nekolik let), tak bych si
rad vyslech vyhrady ke zmene, co jsem zapomnel, co slo udelat lepe a to
radeji takto s primym odkazem na chcangeset (nize), nez aby to nekdo
pozdeji omylem nasel a divil se proc neco nefunguje.

Zaklad kruhu uz byl na miste jako "construction" a tak jsem jej vyuzil.
Stejne tak jsem preroutoval relaci, ktera vedla puvodni rovnou silnici
(stejne mam pocit, ze je rozbita na jinych mistech) a zmenil puvodni
juncion=circular na roundabout, protoze tam mame konecne tyto znacky.

Mapoval jsem pouze pomoci nocnich fotek (nezaostrene) a jejich GPS
pozice z Mapillary. Ani na fotomapach, ani v katastru to jeste neni.

Budu rad za kazde rady a tipy.

http://overpass-api.de/achavi/?changeset=54897143
http://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/54897143#map=17/49.21855/16.60205

Diky,

Jakub



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Re: [OSM-talk] OSM tagging validation lib

[Yuri Astrakhan]

Colin, I think we should look at JOSM's validations as a good example of
what is needed. For some validations, it extended MapCSS with its own
custom quirks, and even added its own unit testing. For other types of
validations (e.g. geometries), it seems to fall back to full code.  Having
a single language to express any types of validation would simplify
maintenance and participation.

I don't think people should translate the JS reference implementation at
all. That recreates the problem we have now. Instead, all tools should use
one common library directly. The only problem is integration - Java,
Python, and C++ can all call JS functions, we just need to ensure it is
*reasonably* fast and easy to deploy.

Lastly, I am sure we will want to introduce "slow validations" - when a
call to an external service, e.g. OSM db or taginfo is required. Those may
be used by some of the tools, e.g. editors right before saving.

Thx!

On Sun, Dec 24, 2017 at 3:03 PM, Colin Smale  wrote:

> Hi Yuri,
>
> We have to decide what is most important - fidelity to the infinite number
> of tagging styles out there, or the ability to get a basic set of tagging
> grammar accepted in as many tools as possible.
>
> Any rules grammar will always have limits of course. If the rules are too
> complex to represent in a declarative way, that is in itself an indication
> of the mess we have got ourselves into. If the "unwritten rules" of OSM
> tagging are too complex to write down, then they need sorting out first!
> Having a simple base to work from might be a good first step. Automated
> chaos is still chaos.
>
> I agree that the ultimate rules engine may well end up using e.g. JS as a
> medium to express some of the subtleties of the rules. Once a JS
> implementation has been published, then people can translate the JS
> reference implementation into whatever language they need. But separating
> the basic rules from the execution engine is nothing more than
> architectural best practice, and there is no reason that the basic
> rules should not be portable across runtime environments.
>
> Can you think of any complex patterns which cannot (easily) be expressed
> in a declarative way?
>
> The real challenge here is not for the coders, but a perennial challenge
> for the OSM community. How do we get to such a consensus about tagging
> patterns, that we can actually say "this is correct" and "this is wrong
> enough to warrant correction" without upsetting a large number of people?
> As soon as a discussion is about right vs wrong, it degenerates into
> mudslinging.
>
>
> //colin
>
> On 2017-12-24 20:37, Yuri Astrakhan wrote:
>
> Declarative rules are usually not very good. Every tool must understand
> every type of rule, and must be updated when new rule types are introduced.
> Plus declarative grammar is either too limiting, or eventually starts
> looking like a scripting language itself, and we end up building an
> execution environment in every tool.
>
>
> I think a better path is executing scripts inside other languages, e.g.
>
> * a JavaScript library ran by Java, Python, C++, ...
> * a lib that gets compiled into a webassembly for browser, or connected to
> other languages via native bindings (less tried path)
>
> The lib would need an API to
> * access local data state
> * access master OSM DB for additional data
> * access other tools like taginfo
>
>
> Integrating scripting environment may be difficult, but offers far greater
> benefits of rule consistency and flexibility.
>
>
> On Sun, Dec 24, 2017 at 7:30 AM, Colin Smale 
> wrote:
>
>> The technical differences between java and JS do not preclude generic
>> thinking. Consider tzdata[1] for example, which does something analogous
>> for time zone data.
>>
>> The "rules database" can be made portable, in the form of XML or JSON for
>> example. The logic for using these rules can be described in a portable
>> way. Then you add a set of compliance tests, and publish a reference
>> implementation to demonstrate that is is possible to implement it. After
>> that, the logic can be implemented in any language you like, checked
>> against the compliance tests and the bindings published.
>>
>> Externalising the rules database enables updates and customisations for
>> particular reasons. Depending on the specific use case and the associated
>> non-functionals, validation could possibly be offered as a cloud service
>> (not necessarily by OSM).
>>
>>
>> //colin
>>
>> [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tz_database
>>
>> On 2017-12-24 12:18, James wrote:
>>
>> ID is javascript, JOSM is java. So right there I already see a
>> intercompatibility issue
>>
>> On Dec 24, 2017 6:12 AM, "François Lacombe" 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi
>>>
>>> Here is an idea I got regarding tagging validation in editors (iD, JOSM,
>>> others).
>>> Subsequently to wiki proposal voting and cleanups, it's currently
>>> necessarily to open issues in each 

Re: [OSM-talk] OSM tagging validation lib

[Colin Smale]

Hi Yuri, 

We have to decide what is most important - fidelity to the infinite
number of tagging styles out there, or the ability to get a basic set of
tagging grammar accepted in as many tools as possible. 

Any rules grammar will always have limits of course. If the rules are
too complex to represent in a declarative way, that is in itself an
indication of the mess we have got ourselves into. If the "unwritten
rules" of OSM tagging are too complex to write down, then they need
sorting out first! Having a simple base to work from might be a good
first step. Automated chaos is still chaos. 

I agree that the ultimate rules engine may well end up using e.g. JS as
a medium to express some of the subtleties of the rules. Once a JS
implementation has been published, then people can translate the JS
reference implementation into whatever language they need. But
separating the basic rules from the execution engine is nothing more
than architectural best practice, and there is no reason that the basic
rules should not be portable across runtime environments. 

Can you think of any complex patterns which cannot (easily) be expressed
in a declarative way? 

The real challenge here is not for the coders, but a perennial challenge
for the OSM community. How do we get to such a consensus about tagging
patterns, that we can actually say "this is correct" and "this is wrong
enough to warrant correction" without upsetting a large number of
people? As soon as a discussion is about right vs wrong, it degenerates
into mudslinging.

//colin 

On 2017-12-24 20:37, Yuri Astrakhan wrote:

> Declarative rules are usually not very good. Every tool must understand every 
> type of rule, and must be updated when new rule types are introduced. Plus 
> declarative grammar is either too limiting, or eventually starts looking like 
> a scripting language itself, and we end up building an execution environment 
> in every tool. 
> 
> I think a better path is executing scripts inside other languages, e.g.
> 
> * a JavaScript library ran by Java, Python, C++, ... 
> * a lib that gets compiled into a webassembly for browser, or connected to 
> other languages via native bindings (less tried path) 
> The lib would need an API to * access local data state * access master OSM DB 
> for additional data * access other tools like taginfo
> 
> Integrating scripting environment may be difficult, but offers far greater 
> benefits of rule consistency and flexibility. 
> 
> On Sun, Dec 24, 2017 at 7:30 AM, Colin Smale  wrote:
> 
> The technical differences between java and JS do not preclude generic 
> thinking. Consider tzdata[1] for example, which does something analogous for 
> time zone data. 
> 
> The "rules database" can be made portable, in the form of XML or JSON for 
> example. The logic for using these rules can be described in a portable way. 
> Then you add a set of compliance tests, and publish a reference 
> implementation to demonstrate that is is possible to implement it. After 
> that, the logic can be implemented in any language you like, checked against 
> the compliance tests and the bindings published. 
> 
> Externalising the rules database enables updates and customisations for 
> particular reasons. Depending on the specific use case and the associated 
> non-functionals, validation could possibly be offered as a cloud service (not 
> necessarily by OSM).
> 
> //colin 
> 
> [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tz_database [1]
> 
> On 2017-12-24 12:18, James wrote: 
> ID is javascript, JOSM is java. So right there I already see a 
> intercompatibility issue 
> 
> On Dec 24, 2017 6:12 AM, "François Lacombe"  wrote:
> 
> Hi 
> 
> Here is an idea I got regarding tagging validation in editors (iD, JOSM, 
> others). 
> Subsequently to wiki proposal voting and cleanups, it's currently necessarily 
> to open issues in each editor repository to ask for new tagging validation 
> rules.  
> 
> It can sometimes be time consuming to develop those new rules and such a work 
> is done independently by each project maintainer. While each project have its 
> own specific components, background logic is the same. 
> 
> Would a new lib called like osmtagvalidator or so in charge of doing conform 
> validation to wiki be useful? 
> It may be shared by any project involved in osm editing and preserve its 
> resources for other valuable developments. 
> 
> For me, validation doesn't prevent users to use tags they want, but only warn 
> them about possible mistakes. 
> 
> How would devs and users feel about this? 
> 
> All the best 
> 
> François 
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Re: [OSM-talk] OSM tagging validation lib

[Yuri Astrakhan]

Declarative rules are usually not very good. Every tool must understand
every type of rule, and must be updated when new rule types are introduced.
Plus declarative grammar is either too limiting, or eventually starts
looking like a scripting language itself, and we end up building an
execution environment in every tool.

I think a better path is executing scripts inside other languages, e.g.
* a JavaScript library ran by Java, Python, C++, ...
* a lib that gets compiled into a webassembly for browser, or connected to
other languages via native bindings (less tried path)

The lib would need an API to
* access local data state
* access master OSM DB for additional data
* access other tools like taginfo

Integrating scripting environment may be difficult, but offers far greater
benefits of rule consistency and flexibility.


On Sun, Dec 24, 2017 at 7:30 AM, Colin Smale  wrote:

> The technical differences between java and JS do not preclude generic
> thinking. Consider tzdata[1] for example, which does something analogous
> for time zone data.
>
> The "rules database" can be made portable, in the form of XML or JSON for
> example. The logic for using these rules can be described in a portable
> way. Then you add a set of compliance tests, and publish a reference
> implementation to demonstrate that is is possible to implement it. After
> that, the logic can be implemented in any language you like, checked
> against the compliance tests and the bindings published.
>
> Externalising the rules database enables updates and customisations for
> particular reasons. Depending on the specific use case and the associated
> non-functionals, validation could possibly be offered as a cloud service
> (not necessarily by OSM).
>
>
> //colin
>
> [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tz_database
>
> On 2017-12-24 12:18, James wrote:
>
> ID is javascript, JOSM is java. So right there I already see a
> intercompatibility issue
>
> On Dec 24, 2017 6:12 AM, "François Lacombe" 
> wrote:
>
>> Hi
>>
>> Here is an idea I got regarding tagging validation in editors (iD, JOSM,
>> others).
>> Subsequently to wiki proposal voting and cleanups, it's currently
>> necessarily to open issues in each editor repository to ask for new tagging
>> validation rules.
>>
>> It can sometimes be time consuming to develop those new rules and such a
>> work is done independently by each project maintainer. While each project
>> have its own specific components, background logic is the same.
>>
>> Would a new lib called like osmtagvalidator or so in charge of doing
>> conform validation to wiki be useful?
>> It may be shared by any project involved in osm editing and preserve its
>> resources for other valuable developments.
>>
>> For me, validation doesn't prevent users to use tags they want, but only
>> warn them about possible mistakes.
>>
>> How would devs and users feel about this?
>>
>> All the best
>>
>> François
>>
>> ___
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>> talk@openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>>
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Re: [OSM-talk] OSM tagging validation lib

[john whelan]

The problem with HOT inspired maperthons is half the participants will not
return.  So restricting their choices to the most common is helpful.

Typically I see highway=primary between two small settlements,
highway=living_steet by mappers mapping from imagery in African countries
that do not have any in legal existence.

Whilst there is a mechanism of validation to correct errors it's only very
recently that it has been possible to restrict validation to mappers with
some experience.  Even today with TM3 I can see tiles have been validated
by mappers with very little or even no experience and it is not possible to
identify the tiles easily to revalidate them and to be honest not that much
HOT mapping gets validated.

Even with mappers who use JOSM and do not map through HOT there are
problems.  One cheerful mapper managed to upload over 400 untagged ways
with JOSM and they would have been warned when uploading them.

It isn't possible to make things idiot proof new improved idiots arrive all
the time but by suggesting the most common tags to new mappers might make
it easier for them to select the correct values.

Cheerio John

On 24 Dec 2017 1:51 pm, "Andy Townsend"  wrote:

> On 24/12/17 18:41, john whelan wrote:
>
>> True but it's to do with data quality and avoiding the need to validate.
>>
>
> I don't think that different presets will "avoid the need to validate" in
> any scenario (HOT or otherwise) - the only thing that will do that is
> education and training - and having those educated and trained people come
> back again to do more mapping.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Andy
>
>
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[Talk-us] Whole-US Garmin Map update - 2017-12-22

[Dave Hansen]

These are based off of Lambertus's work here:

http://garmin.openstreetmap.nl

If you have questions or comments about these maps, please feel
free to ask.  However, please do not send me private mail.  The
odds are, someone else will have the same questions, and by
asking on the talk-us@ list, others can benefit.

Downloads:

http://daveh.dev.openstreetmap.org/garmin/Lambertus/2017-12-22

Map to visualize what each file contains:


http://daveh.dev.openstreetmap.org/garmin/Lambertus/2017-12-22/kml/kml.html


FAQ



Why did you do this?

I wrote scripts to joined them myself to lessen the impact
of doing a large join on Lambertus's server.  I've also
cut them in large longitude swaths that should fit conveniently
on removable media.  

http://daveh.dev.openstreetmap.org/garmin/Lambertus/2017-12-22

Can or should I seed the torrents?

Yes!!  If you use the .torrent files, please seed.  That web
server is in the UK, and it helps to have some peers on this
side of the Atlantic.

Why is my map missing small rectangular areas?

There have been some missing tiles from Lambertus's map (the
red rectangles),  I don't see any at the moment, so you may
want to update if you had issues with the last set.

Why can I not copy the large files to my new SD card?

If you buy a new card (especially SDHC), some are FAT16 from
the factory.  I had to reformat it to let me create a >2GB
file.

Does your map cover Mexico/Canada?

Yes!!  I have, for the purposes of this map, annexed Ontario
in to the USA.  Some areas of North America that are close
to the US also just happen to get pulled in to these maps.
This might not happen forever, and if you would like your
non-US area to get included, let me know. 

-- Dave


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Re: [OSM-talk] OSM tagging validation lib

[Andy Townsend]

On 24/12/17 18:41, john whelan wrote:

True but it's to do with data quality and avoiding the need to validate.


I don't think that different presets will "avoid the need to validate" 
in any scenario (HOT or otherwise) - the only thing that will do that is 
education and training - and having those educated and trained people 
come back again to do more mapping.


Best Regards,

Andy


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Re: [OSM-talk] OSM tagging validation lib

[john whelan]

True but it's to do with data quality and avoiding the need to validate.

Thank you for the comment.

Cheerio John

On 24 Dec 2017 1:37 pm, "Bryan Housel"  wrote:

> What you are describing has nothing to do with validation. This could be
> done now without any new development just by running a copy of iD with
> different presets.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Dec 24, 2017, at 12:08 PM, john whelan  wrote:
>
> But what I suspect could be done is when iD in invoked from a HOT project
> it could restrict the options on things like highways to those in the wiki
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Highway_Tag_Africa
> which would save a lot of living_streets etc. being added in parts of
> Africa where there aren't any.  Also reduce the numbers of highway=footway
> rather than path.
>
> We might even get a few more building=yes tags rather than the range we
> get at the moment.
>
> Thanks John
>
> On 24 December 2017 at 10:45, Bryan Housel  wrote:
>
>> Have you looked at https://github.com/osmlab/osmlint ?
>> Of all the current validation efforts, that seems like the most
>> promising.
>>
>> I’d definitely echo what other people are saying about avoiding the osm
>> wiki if possible.
>>
>> It works on vector tiles though, so to stuff it into an editor like iD,
>> we would need to write some kind of pipeline that does:
>> “current view of stuff in editor” -> "vector tile" -> "osmlint engine" ->
>> “results (geojson)” -> “back to the editor for user to see"
>>
>> It might work?
>>
>> Also… This problem of “validating OSM” is really unbounded.  You should
>> know that before you start working on it!  I’m not one to tell people not
>> to work on something but.. It’s really hard!  Tags are just made up all the
>> time by people.
>>
>> Can a `highway=residential` connect to a `power=line`?  - no!
>> Can a `highway=service` connect to a `power=substation`  - uhh, I guess!
>> Can a `highway=??` connect to a `power=thing_i_just_made_up`? - haha!
>>
>> Bryan
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Dec 24, 2017, at 4:47 AM, François Lacombe 
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi
>>
>> Here is an idea I got regarding tagging validation in editors (iD, JOSM,
>> others).
>> Subsequently to wiki proposal voting and cleanups, it's currently
>> necessarily to open issues in each editor repository to ask for new tagging
>> validation rules.
>>
>> It can sometimes be time consuming to develop those new rules and such a
>> work is done independently by each project maintainer. While each project
>> have its own specific components, background logic is the same.
>>
>> Would a new lib called like osmtagvalidator or so in charge of doing
>> conform validation to wiki be useful?
>> It may be shared by any project involved in osm editing and preserve its
>> resources for other valuable developments.
>>
>> For me, validation doesn't prevent users to use tags they want, but only
>> warn them about possible mistakes.
>>
>> How would devs and users feel about this?
>>
>> All the best
>>
>> François
>> ___
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>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>>
>>
>>
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>>
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Re: [OSM-talk] OSM tagging validation lib

[Bryan Housel]

What you are describing has nothing to do with validation. This could be done 
now without any new development just by running a copy of iD with different 
presets. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 24, 2017, at 12:08 PM, john whelan  wrote:
> 
> But what I suspect could be done is when iD in invoked from a HOT project it 
> could restrict the options on things like highways to those in the wiki  
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Highway_Tag_Africa
> which would save a lot of living_streets etc. being added in parts of Africa 
> where there aren't any.  Also reduce the numbers of highway=footway rather 
> than path.
> 
> We might even get a few more building=yes tags rather than the range we get 
> at the moment.
> 
> Thanks John
> 
>> On 24 December 2017 at 10:45, Bryan Housel  wrote:
>> Have you looked at https://github.com/osmlab/osmlint ?
>> Of all the current validation efforts, that seems like the most promising.  
>> 
>> I’d definitely echo what other people are saying about avoiding the osm wiki 
>> if possible. 
>> 
>> It works on vector tiles though, so to stuff it into an editor like iD, we 
>> would need to write some kind of pipeline that does:
>> “current view of stuff in editor” -> "vector tile" -> "osmlint engine" -> 
>> “results (geojson)” -> “back to the editor for user to see"
>> 
>> It might work?
>> 
>> Also… This problem of “validating OSM” is really unbounded.  You should know 
>> that before you start working on it!  I’m not one to tell people not to work 
>> on something but.. It’s really hard!  Tags are just made up all the time by 
>> people.
>> 
>> Can a `highway=residential` connect to a `power=line`?  - no!
>> Can a `highway=service` connect to a `power=substation`  - uhh, I guess!
>> Can a `highway=??` connect to a `power=thing_i_just_made_up`? - haha!
>> 
>> Bryan
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Dec 24, 2017, at 4:47 AM, François Lacombe  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi
>>> 
>>> Here is an idea I got regarding tagging validation in editors (iD, JOSM, 
>>> others).
>>> Subsequently to wiki proposal voting and cleanups, it's currently 
>>> necessarily to open issues in each editor repository to ask for new tagging 
>>> validation rules. 
>>> 
>>> It can sometimes be time consuming to develop those new rules and such a 
>>> work is done independently by each project maintainer. While each project 
>>> have its own specific components, background logic is the same.
>>> 
>>> Would a new lib called like osmtagvalidator or so in charge of doing 
>>> conform validation to wiki be useful?
>>> It may be shared by any project involved in osm editing and preserve its 
>>> resources for other valuable developments.
>>> 
>>> For me, validation doesn't prevent users to use tags they want, but only 
>>> warn them about possible mistakes.
>>> 
>>> How would devs and users feel about this?
>>> 
>>> All the best
>>> 
>>> François
>>> ___
>>> talk mailing list
>>> talk@openstreetmap.org
>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>> 
>> 
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>> 
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Re: [Talk-it] Piazzola-postazione mitragliatrice

[Cascafico Giovanni]

Il pipe credo non sia sintassi OSM ma una notazione geneticamente usata per
indicare che va scritto o questo o quello

Underscore per un unico tag che ha degli spazi nella stringa

Due punti (namespace) per raggruppare più elementi
Mi viene in mente
ref:MIBAC
per definire che i numeri di riferimento  soni del gruppo ministero beni
ambientali

Il 24/dic/2017 12:09 PM, "demon.box"  ha scritto:

> ciao, dovendo mappare i resti di alcune piazzole-postazioni per
> mitragliatrici antiaeree della prima guerra mondiale ho trovato questo
> interessante tag che fa proprio al caso mio:
>
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:bunker_type%3Dgun_emplacement
>
> vorrei però indicare anche (visto che lo conosco) il nome esatto della
> mitragliatrice (FIAT 194), se volessi "creare" un tag cosa mi consigliate?
>
> gun:name ?
> gun_name ?
> gun:model ?
> gun_model ?
>
> posto che non ho mai capito la differenza tra il separatore ":" e "_"
> qualcuno sa gentilmente spiegarmela?
>
> tra l'altro ho notato che nella pagina wiki del CAI
>
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/CAI
>
> per il tag destination in presenza di valori multipli non viene suggerito
> ";" ma "|", ora chiedo è soltanto una prerogativa di quel tag oppure in
> generale è sempre preferibile usare "|" anzichè ";" ? (sarebbe una
> novità)
> grazie
> --enrico
>
>
>
>
> --
> Sent from: http://gis.19327.n8.nabble.com/Italy-General-f5324174.html
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] OSM tagging validation lib

[François Lacombe]

Hi Bryan

Le 24 déc. 2017 4:45 PM, "Bryan Housel"  a écrit :

Have you looked at https://github.com/osmlab/osmlint ?
Of all the current validation efforts, that seems like the most promising.


I didn't know OSMLint and OSM QA tiles before
Very promising indeed for parallel processing
Issue I see it's relations aren't available unfortunately


I’d definitely echo what other people are saying about avoiding the osm
wiki if possible.

Can you elaborate please ?
I just don't know elsewhere anyone can find comprehensive and consistent
information about tags despite wiki is not always perfect
Wiki got good functionalities to log contributions and revert vandalism too.


It works on vector tiles though, so to stuff it into an editor like iD, we
would need to write some kind of pipeline that does:
“current view of stuff in editor” -> "vector tile" -> "osmlint engine" ->
“results (geojson)” -> “back to the editor for user to see"

It might work?

It can clearly work :)
Nevertheless it's one usecase out of plenty
Validation systems can be used to do data audit too
That's why focusing on rules formatting is more versatile than writing
implementation unlinke what i was originally suggesting



Also… This problem of “validating OSM” is really unbounded.  You should
know that before you start working on it!  I’m not one to tell people not
to work on something but.. It’s really hard!  Tags are just made up all the
time by people.


I agree and it's a different problem
Focusing on rules formalism doesn't assume what rules should be.
Even if tags are made by people, some definitions can be commonly accepted
and they can be refined after some discussion. Validation can follow the
same peocess also.


Can a `highway=residential` connect to a `power=line`?  - no!
Can a `highway=service` connect to a `power=substation`  - uhh, I guess!
Can a `highway=??` connect to a `power=thing_i_just_made_up`? - haha!

These are rules, not the description we should build to make them
understandable by software

All the best

François
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Re: [OSM-talk] OSM tagging validation lib

[john whelan]

But what I suspect could be done is when iD in invoked from a HOT project
it could restrict the options on things like highways to those in the wiki
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Highway_Tag_Africa
which would save a lot of living_streets etc. being added in parts of
Africa where there aren't any.  Also reduce the numbers of highway=footway
rather than path.

We might even get a few more building=yes tags rather than the range we get
at the moment.

Thanks John

On 24 December 2017 at 10:45, Bryan Housel  wrote:

> Have you looked at https://github.com/osmlab/osmlint ?
> Of all the current validation efforts, that seems like the most promising.
>
>
> I’d definitely echo what other people are saying about avoiding the osm
> wiki if possible.
>
> It works on vector tiles though, so to stuff it into an editor like iD, we
> would need to write some kind of pipeline that does:
> “current view of stuff in editor” -> "vector tile" -> "osmlint engine" ->
> “results (geojson)” -> “back to the editor for user to see"
>
> It might work?
>
> Also… This problem of “validating OSM” is really unbounded.  You should
> know that before you start working on it!  I’m not one to tell people not
> to work on something but.. It’s really hard!  Tags are just made up all the
> time by people.
>
> Can a `highway=residential` connect to a `power=line`?  - no!
> Can a `highway=service` connect to a `power=substation`  - uhh, I guess!
> Can a `highway=??` connect to a `power=thing_i_just_made_up`? - haha!
>
> Bryan
>
>
>
>
> On Dec 24, 2017, at 4:47 AM, François Lacombe 
> wrote:
>
> Hi
>
> Here is an idea I got regarding tagging validation in editors (iD, JOSM,
> others).
> Subsequently to wiki proposal voting and cleanups, it's currently
> necessarily to open issues in each editor repository to ask for new tagging
> validation rules.
>
> It can sometimes be time consuming to develop those new rules and such a
> work is done independently by each project maintainer. While each project
> have its own specific components, background logic is the same.
>
> Would a new lib called like osmtagvalidator or so in charge of doing
> conform validation to wiki be useful?
> It may be shared by any project involved in osm editing and preserve its
> resources for other valuable developments.
>
> For me, validation doesn't prevent users to use tags they want, but only
> warn them about possible mistakes.
>
> How would devs and users feel about this?
>
> All the best
>
> François
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Re: [OSM-talk] OSM tagging validation lib

[Bryan Housel]

Have you looked at https://github.com/osmlab/osmlint 
 ?
Of all the current validation efforts, that seems like the most promising.  

I’d definitely echo what other people are saying about avoiding the osm wiki if 
possible. 

It works on vector tiles though, so to stuff it into an editor like iD, we 
would need to write some kind of pipeline that does:
“current view of stuff in editor” -> "vector tile" -> "osmlint engine" -> 
“results (geojson)” -> “back to the editor for user to see"

It might work?

Also… This problem of “validating OSM” is really unbounded.  You should know 
that before you start working on it!  I’m not one to tell people not to work on 
something but.. It’s really hard!  Tags are just made up all the time by people.

Can a `highway=residential` connect to a `power=line`?  - no!
Can a `highway=service` connect to a `power=substation`  - uhh, I guess!
Can a `highway=??` connect to a `power=thing_i_just_made_up`? - haha!

Bryan




> On Dec 24, 2017, at 4:47 AM, François Lacombe  
> wrote:
> 
> Hi
> 
> Here is an idea I got regarding tagging validation in editors (iD, JOSM, 
> others).
> Subsequently to wiki proposal voting and cleanups, it's currently necessarily 
> to open issues in each editor repository to ask for new tagging validation 
> rules. 
> 
> It can sometimes be time consuming to develop those new rules and such a work 
> is done independently by each project maintainer. While each project have its 
> own specific components, background logic is the same.
> 
> Would a new lib called like osmtagvalidator or so in charge of doing conform 
> validation to wiki be useful?
> It may be shared by any project involved in osm editing and preserve its 
> resources for other valuable developments.
> 
> For me, validation doesn't prevent users to use tags they want, but only warn 
> them about possible mistakes.
> 
> How would devs and users feel about this?
> 
> All the best
> 
> François
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Challenge ? Si on dégommait du rose ?

[Christian Quest]

Un test de croisement adresses (BAN) et highway à 200m...

http://osmose.openstreetmap.fr/fr/map/#=7170=12

Pas mal, mais j'ai quelques idées d'améliorations.



Le 22 décembre 2017 à 22:45, Vincent Privat  a
écrit :

> Il faut aller sur https://cadastre.data.gouv.fr/ pour avoir de
> l'ergonomie made in Etalab :) Tout frais et tout sexy !
>
> Le 22 décembre 2017 à 22:36,  a écrit :
>
>> Comment sais-tu depuis ton fauteuil s'il s'agit de voies d'accès privées
>> ? Absence dans le cadastre ??? Pas de parcelle spécifique ?
>>
>> J'ai remarqué que souvent les données manquent à la frontière entre deux
>> communes, là où les tuiles du cadastres ne s'affichent pas dans JOSM.
>>
>> On commande au Père Noël un TMS qui affiche les données des différentes
>> communes et non d'une seule quand on est près d'une frontière ? ;-) Ou
>> est-ce qu"avec la vectorisation on va avoir mieux sous peu ?
>>
>> https://cadastre.gouv.fr est aussi ergonomique qu'une huître est sexy,
>> pouvoir s'en passer c'est un plus.
>> Jean-Yvon
>>
>>
>> Le 22/12/2017 à 19:21, Philippe Verdy - verd...@wanadoo.fr a écrit :
>>
>> Pour des cas comme ça il serait bon d'ajouter les voies d'accès privées
>> (highway=service+service=driveway) au lieu de mettre faux positif. De
>> plus cela renforce le guidage en cas d'ambiguité d'accès (ce n'est pas
>> forcément la route la plus proche qui est son accès public et l'adresse)
>>
>> Le 22 décembre 2017 à 15:32, Christian Quest  a
>> écrit :
>>
>>> \o/ !
>>>
>>> Il y a encore de quoi faire sur cette thématique et certains faux
>>> positifs (il y en a 760) ne sont sûrement pas vraiment des faux positifs...
>>>
>>> J'ai tenté un croisement bâti/route et c'est délicat car sur une grande
>>> parcelle on peut avoir un bâtiment éloigné de la route. Il faudrait
>>> vérifier plutôt la proximité d'une route avec une parcelle batie, moins
>>> simple. C'est ici pour quelques départements si vous voulez regarder:
>>> http://osmose.openstreetmap.fr/fr/map/#source=14708=717
>>> 0=11=10=49.1296=-0.361=Mapnik
>>> ays=T
>>>
>>> Un croisement adresses/route peut être plus pertinent... à tester.
>>>
>>>
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Re: [Talk-lv] Route relations on latvian roads

[Ilya Zverev]

Just tested the recent map with Maps.me, road shields look consistent and great 
now. Thanks Richards!

Ilya

> 21 дек. 2017 г., в 3:26, Rihards  написал(а):
> 
> On 2017.12.21. 00:41, Rihards wrote:
>> On 2017.07.11. 19:32, Rihards wrote:
>>> On 2017.07.11. 18:54, Ilya Zverev wrote:
 Hi folks,
 
 I have been investigating the strange case with road shield in maps.me. In 
 Latvia they are duplicated in different colors:
 
 http://not.textual.ru/zverik/2/4/latvian-shields.jpg
 
 Turns out, in route relations for roads you use network=lv:national for 
 both A and P roads and network=lv:regional for V roads. But in 
 https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Latvia#M.C4.93r.C4.B7i P 
 roads are called regional and V are local. So basically A and P roads are 
 indistinguishable by their network tag, which strips it of meaning.
 
 Should I disable parsing road relations for Latvia, or is it possible to 
 fix this issue by retagging all the relations or inventing a new network 
 value for A roads?
>>> 
>>> thanks a lot for spotting this. does not look right - A & P should not
>>> be at the same level.
>>> 
>>> we should probably change P to lv:regional and V to lv:local
>>> 
>>> opinions ?
>> 
>> looks like we haven't had any objections for 5 months, i started looking
>> into this change. discovered some V roads marked as network:national -
>> this won't be a trivial automated edit, will need a bit more manual
>> attention. still in progress.
> 
> this is completed now. verification would be appreciated.
> 
> Ilya, does this resolve the issue with the relation parsing ?
> 
 Ilya-- 
>>> Rihards-- 
>> Rihards
> -- 
> Rihards


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Re: [Talk-it] Piazzola-postazione mitragliatrice

[demon.box]

liste DOT girarsi AT posteo DOT eu wrote
> Il pipe (|) nel tag description in questione è per separare le 
> destinazioni e/o vari luoghi presenti in una segnaletica (di solito una 
> riga sotto l'altra), mentre il punto e virgola di solito serve a 
> separare valori di un tag, per esempio:
> 
> amenity=restaurants
> cuisine:type=pizza;regional;italian (messo a caso)

si tratta del tag destination non description ma ho capito, grazie ;-)
ciao
--enrico





--
Sent from: http://gis.19327.n8.nabble.com/Italy-General-f5324174.html

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[Talk-it] Ufficio/sede ditta spurgo pozzi neri

[Damjan Gerl]

Salve!
Come si potrebbe taggare qualcosa di simile? Ho cercato in wiki e 
tentato di tradurre in inglese e poi cercare, ma non sono riuscito a 
trovare niente di utile.

Praticamente devo mettere un tag per questo: http://www.danev.it

Grazie
Damjan


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Re: [OSM-talk] OSM tagging validation lib

[François Lacombe]

Thanks for answers :)

I said a lib, but indeed the diversity of projects would be too problematic
for implementation and rollouts.
JSON, xml, text are fine
https://twitter.com/VincentPrivat/status/944923315831033856

As Simon said, taginfo is a great tool to extract data from wiki.
Even if it's not perfect, the wiki is the only reference I know and where
data consumers go to get information. Then it's relevent to improve it
It would be hard to put all practicies and rules in wiki keys scorecard
templates (from where taginfo get most of its input). Should we complete it
in taginfo itself ?

All the best

François

Le 24 déc. 2017 1:47 PM, "Simon Poole"  a écrit :

> On the one hand lots of the in principle useful information in the wiki is
> not really easily extractable and on the other hand it is prone to
> manipulation in more than one way (current fad is to add big warnings about
> tagging errors what are not).
>
> IMHO addressing the first issue would likely be more helpful and perhaps
> allow the generation of at least rudimentary presets directly from the wiki
> (potentially with support from taginfo).
>
> Simon
>
>
>
> On 24.12.2017 12:54, Mateusz Konieczny wrote:
>
> > conform validation to wiki
>
> Sometimes wiki is wrong and should be changed.
>
> Note also that authors of different tools have different opinions how and
> what should be reported as errors.
>
>
> On 24 Dec 2017 11:12 a.m., "François Lacombe" 
> wrote:
>
> Hi
>
> Here is an idea I got regarding tagging validation in editors (iD, JOSM,
> others).
> Subsequently to wiki proposal voting and cleanups, it's currently
> necessarily to open issues in each editor repository to ask for new tagging
> validation rules.
>
> It can sometimes be time consuming to develop those new rules and such a
> work is done independently by each project maintainer. While each project
> have its own specific components, background logic is the same.
>
> Would a new lib called like osmtagvalidator or so in charge of doing
> conform validation to wiki be useful?
> It may be shared by any project involved in osm editing and preserve its
> resources for other valuable developments.
>
> For me, validation doesn't prevent users to use tags they want, but only
> warn them about possible mistakes.
>
> How would devs and users feel about this?
>
> All the best
>
> François
>
> ___
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> talk@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
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>
>
>
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hebdoOSM Nº 387 2017-12-12-2017-12-18

[weeklyteam]

Bonjour,

Le résumé hebdomadaire n° 387 de l'actualité OpenStreetMap vient de paraître 
*en français*. Un condensé à retrouver sur :

http://www.weeklyosm.eu/fr/archives/9805/

Bonne lecture !

hebdoOSM ? 
Qui : https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WeeklyOSM#Available_Languages 
Où : 
https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/weeklyosm-is-currently-produced-in_56718#2/8.6/108.3
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hebdoOSM Nº 387 2017-12-12-2017-12-18

[weeklyteam]

Bonjour,

Le résumé hebdomadaire n° 387 de l'actualité OpenStreetMap vient de paraître 
*en français*. Un condensé à retrouver sur :

http://www.weeklyosm.eu/fr/archives/9805/

Bonne lecture !

hebdoOSM ? 
Qui : https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WeeklyOSM#Available_Languages 
Où : 
https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/weeklyosm-is-currently-produced-in_56718#2/8.6/108.3
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hebdoOSM Nº 387 2017-12-12-2017-12-18

[weeklyteam]

Bonjour,

Le résumé hebdomadaire n° 387 de l'actualité OpenStreetMap vient de paraître 
*en français*. Un condensé à retrouver sur :

http://www.weeklyosm.eu/fr/archives/9805/

Bonne lecture !

hebdoOSM ? 
Qui : https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WeeklyOSM#Available_Languages 
Où : 
https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/weeklyosm-is-currently-produced-in_56718#2/8.6/108.3
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Re: [OSM-talk] OSM tagging validation lib

[Simon Poole]

On the one hand lots of the in principle useful information in the wiki
is not really easily extractable and on the other hand it is prone to
manipulation in more than one way (current fad is to add big warnings
about tagging errors what are not).

IMHO addressing the first issue would likely be more helpful and perhaps
allow the generation of at least rudimentary presets directly from the
wiki (potentially with support from taginfo).

Simon



On 24.12.2017 12:54, Mateusz Konieczny wrote:
> > conform validation to wiki
>
> Sometimes wiki is wrong and should be changed. 
>
> Note also that authors of different tools have different opinions how
> and what should be reported as errors.
>
>
> On 24 Dec 2017 11:12 a.m., "François Lacombe"
> > wrote:
>
> Hi
>
> Here is an idea I got regarding tagging validation in editors (iD,
> JOSM, others).
> Subsequently to wiki proposal voting and cleanups, it's currently
> necessarily to open issues in each editor repository to ask for
> new tagging validation rules. 
>
> It can sometimes be time consuming to develop those new rules and
> such a work is done independently by each project maintainer.
> While each project have its own specific components, background
> logic is the same.
>
> Would a new lib called like osmtagvalidator or so in charge of
> doing conform validation to wiki be useful?
> It may be shared by any project involved in osm editing and
> preserve its resources for other valuable developments.
>
> For me, validation doesn't prevent users to use tags they want,
> but only warn them about possible mistakes.
>
> How would devs and users feel about this?
>
> All the best
>
> François
>
> ___
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> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
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>
>
>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] OSM tagging validation lib

[Colin Smale]

The technical differences between java and JS do not preclude generic
thinking. Consider tzdata[1] for example, which does something analogous
for time zone data. 

The "rules database" can be made portable, in the form of XML or JSON
for example. The logic for using these rules can be described in a
portable way. Then you add a set of compliance tests, and publish a
reference implementation to demonstrate that is is possible to implement
it. After that, the logic can be implemented in any language you like,
checked against the compliance tests and the bindings published. 

Externalising the rules database enables updates and customisations for
particular reasons. Depending on the specific use case and the
associated non-functionals, validation could possibly be offered as a
cloud service (not necessarily by OSM).

//colin 

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tz_database 

On 2017-12-24 12:18, James wrote:

> ID is javascript, JOSM is java. So right there I already see a 
> intercompatibility issue 
> 
> On Dec 24, 2017 6:12 AM, "François Lacombe"  wrote:
> 
>> Hi 
>> 
>> Here is an idea I got regarding tagging validation in editors (iD, JOSM, 
>> others). 
>> Subsequently to wiki proposal voting and cleanups, it's currently 
>> necessarily to open issues in each editor repository to ask for new tagging 
>> validation rules.  
>> 
>> It can sometimes be time consuming to develop those new rules and such a 
>> work is done independently by each project maintainer. While each project 
>> have its own specific components, background logic is the same. 
>> 
>> Would a new lib called like osmtagvalidator or so in charge of doing conform 
>> validation to wiki be useful? 
>> It may be shared by any project involved in osm editing and preserve its 
>> resources for other valuable developments. 
>> 
>> For me, validation doesn't prevent users to use tags they want, but only 
>> warn them about possible mistakes. 
>> 
>> How would devs and users feel about this? 
>> 
>> All the best 
>> 
>> François 
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Re: [OSM-talk] OSM tagging validation lib

[Andy Townsend]

On 24/12/17 11:49, Darafei "Komяpa" Praliaskouski wrote:



It would be cool to have such library running on osm2pgsql import, 
fixing and complaining/skipping all the mistaked tag usage it can 
detect. This can possibly resurrect some objects that are lost because 
of typos or old tagging schemes.




That already exists - the lua tag transformation process can do exactly 
that.  Here's an example:


https://github.com/SomeoneElseOSM/SomeoneElse-style/blob/master/style.lua#L2056

Obviously whether a particular map style wants to render typing / 
tagging errors is a different matter entirely.


Best Regards,

Andy




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Re: [OSM-talk] OSM tagging validation lib

[Mateusz Konieczny]

> conform validation to wiki

Sometimes wiki is wrong and should be changed.

Note also that authors of different tools have different opinions how and
what should be reported as errors.


On 24 Dec 2017 11:12 a.m., "François Lacombe" 
wrote:

Hi

Here is an idea I got regarding tagging validation in editors (iD, JOSM,
others).
Subsequently to wiki proposal voting and cleanups, it's currently
necessarily to open issues in each editor repository to ask for new tagging
validation rules.

It can sometimes be time consuming to develop those new rules and such a
work is done independently by each project maintainer. While each project
have its own specific components, background logic is the same.

Would a new lib called like osmtagvalidator or so in charge of doing
conform validation to wiki be useful?
It may be shared by any project involved in osm editing and preserve its
resources for other valuable developments.

For me, validation doesn't prevent users to use tags they want, but only
warn them about possible mistakes.

How would devs and users feel about this?

All the best

François

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Re: [OSM-talk] OSM tagging validation lib

[Komяpa]

Hi,

What language would that library be in, if level0 and iD are in javascript,
JOSM and Vespucci are in Java, and many random console tools are in python
and perl?

It would be cool to have such library running on osm2pgsql import, fixing
and complaining/skipping all the mistaked tag usage it can detect. This can
possibly resurrect some objects that are lost because of typos or old
tagging schemes.

вс, 24 дек. 2017 г. в 14:12, François Lacombe :

> Hi
>
> Here is an idea I got regarding tagging validation in editors (iD, JOSM,
> others).
> Subsequently to wiki proposal voting and cleanups, it's currently
> necessarily to open issues in each editor repository to ask for new tagging
> validation rules.
>
> It can sometimes be time consuming to develop those new rules and such a
> work is done independently by each project maintainer. While each project
> have its own specific components, background logic is the same.
>
> Would a new lib called like osmtagvalidator or so in charge of doing
> conform validation to wiki be useful?
> It may be shared by any project involved in osm editing and preserve its
> resources for other valuable developments.
>
> For me, validation doesn't prevent users to use tags they want, but only
> warn them about possible mistakes.
>
> How would devs and users feel about this?
>
> All the best
>
> François
> ___
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Re: [Talk-it] Piazzola-postazione mitragliatrice

[liste DOT girarsi AT posteo DOT eu]

Il 24/12/2017 10:44, demon.box ha scritto:

per il tag destination in presenza di valori multipli non viene suggerito
";" ma "|", ora chiedo è soltanto una prerogativa di quel tag oppure in
generale è sempre preferibile usare "|" anzichè ";" ? (sarebbe una
novità)
grazie
--enrico



Rispondo solo per la seconda parte, per la prima riguardante l'arma, non 
so cosa consigliare.


Il pipe (|) nel tag description in questione è per separare le 
destinazioni e/o vari luoghi presenti in una segnaletica (di solito una 
riga sotto l'altra), mentre il punto e virgola di solito serve a 
separare valori di un tag, per esempio:


amenity=restaurants
cuisine:type=pizza;regional;italian (messo a caso)


--
_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_
|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|
Simone Girardelli

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Re: [OSM-talk] OSM tagging validation lib

[James]

ID is javascript, JOSM is java. So right there I already see a
intercompatibility issue

On Dec 24, 2017 6:12 AM, "François Lacombe" 
wrote:

> Hi
>
> Here is an idea I got regarding tagging validation in editors (iD, JOSM,
> others).
> Subsequently to wiki proposal voting and cleanups, it's currently
> necessarily to open issues in each editor repository to ask for new tagging
> validation rules.
>
> It can sometimes be time consuming to develop those new rules and such a
> work is done independently by each project maintainer. While each project
> have its own specific components, background logic is the same.
>
> Would a new lib called like osmtagvalidator or so in charge of doing
> conform validation to wiki be useful?
> It may be shared by any project involved in osm editing and preserve its
> resources for other valuable developments.
>
> For me, validation doesn't prevent users to use tags they want, but only
> warn them about possible mistakes.
>
> How would devs and users feel about this?
>
> All the best
>
> François
>
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[OSM-talk] OSM tagging validation lib

[François Lacombe]

Hi

Here is an idea I got regarding tagging validation in editors (iD, JOSM,
others).
Subsequently to wiki proposal voting and cleanups, it's currently
necessarily to open issues in each editor repository to ask for new tagging
validation rules.

It can sometimes be time consuming to develop those new rules and such a
work is done independently by each project maintainer. While each project
have its own specific components, background logic is the same.

Would a new lib called like osmtagvalidator or so in charge of doing
conform validation to wiki be useful?
It may be shared by any project involved in osm editing and preserve its
resources for other valuable developments.

For me, validation doesn't prevent users to use tags they want, but only
warn them about possible mistakes.

How would devs and users feel about this?

All the best

François
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[Talk-it] Piazzola-postazione mitragliatrice

[demon.box]

ciao, dovendo mappare i resti di alcune piazzole-postazioni per
mitragliatrici antiaeree della prima guerra mondiale ho trovato questo
interessante tag che fa proprio al caso mio:

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:bunker_type%3Dgun_emplacement

vorrei però indicare anche (visto che lo conosco) il nome esatto della
mitragliatrice (FIAT 194), se volessi "creare" un tag cosa mi consigliate?

gun:name ?
gun_name ?
gun:model ?
gun_model ?

posto che non ho mai capito la differenza tra il separatore ":" e "_"
qualcuno sa gentilmente spiegarmela?

tra l'altro ho notato che nella pagina wiki del CAI 

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/CAI

per il tag destination in presenza di valori multipli non viene suggerito
";" ma "|", ora chiedo è soltanto una prerogativa di quel tag oppure in
generale è sempre preferibile usare "|" anzichè ";" ? (sarebbe una
novità)
grazie
--enrico




--
Sent from: http://gis.19327.n8.nabble.com/Italy-General-f5324174.html

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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] réflexion sur l'ia appliqué aux cartes

[François Lacombe]

Bonjour

Je partage également votre avis, les techniques d'apprentissage
permettraient aussi de détecter les biais dans l'utilisation des tags.
Surtout signaler à l'utilisateur que certaines combinaisons sont peu
utilisées en proportion à l'utilisation des clés concernées donc
probablement erronées  (building + man_made=street_cabinet par ex)

Ca permettrait de faciliter le travail de developpelent d'osmose

My 2 cents

François

Le 23 déc. 2017 1:15 PM, "Martin Noblecourt"  a
écrit :

> Tout à fait d'accord avec Christian !
>
> Les initiatives se multiplient de télédétection automatique, l'enjeu va
> être une intégration harmonieuse avec la base de données et la culture OSM
> existante, donc forcément avec une intervention humaine pour
> contrôler/harmoniser.
>
> Côté CartONG on a plusieurs petites expérimentations dans les tuyaux
> (pré-reconnaissance automatique des zones résidentielles avant validation
> humaine notamment), si des gens sont intéressés pour aider nos bénévoles là
> dessus, n'hésitez pas à me contacter ;-)
>
> Joyeux Noël à tous !
>
> Martin
>
> On 23/12/2017 13:00, talk-fr-requ...@openstreetmap.org wrote:
>
> Subject:
> Re: [OSM-talk-fr] réflexion sur l'ia appliqué aux cartes
>
> From:
> Christian Quest  
>
> Date:
> 23/12/2017 12:49
>
> To:
> Discussions sur OSM en français 
> 
> Je suis persuadé qu'on ira de plus en plus dans cette direction.
> OpenSolarMap a permis d'apprendre dans ce domaine, ce sont des technique de
> plus en plus accessibles et il serait dommage de s'en priver.
>
> Comme toujours, il faut bien voir ce que ça apporte et les limites.
> Si on prend le GPS, il a permis à OSM de décoller, mais ce n'est pas pour
> cela qu'on utilise les traces GPS brutes pour tracer les routes et chemins.
>
> Ce sont des outils qui servent à simplifier et automatiser ce qui peut
> l'être sans perte de qualité par rapport à du travail de fourmis humaines.
>
>
> Le 23 décembre 2017 à 12:41, marc marc  a
> écrit :
>
>> Bonjour,
>>
>> Petite article intéressant (même si un peu long)
>> https://www.justinobeirne.com/google-maps-moat
>> l’intéressant pour osm n'est pas la comparaison apple <> google mais
>> l'utilisation de l'ia.
>> pendant qu'on fait dessine à la main le contour des batiments dans
>> certains pays, le computer vision le fait en masse.
>> Il y a aussi un long passage si l'intégration de plusieurs sources de
>> données (sat, street view, registre du commerce)
>>
>> cordialement,
>> Marc
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>
>
> --
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>
>
>
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