Re: [OSM-talk] [Osmf-talk] Draft Terms of use for the OSM website, API and other services
Am 08.08.2018 um 19:14 schrieb Michael Reichert: > .. > I read the draft and I think that is far too long. It does not invited > to be read by the users. This can lead to following issues: Just to be clear, we (the LWG) would prefer that it be shorter too, it is just the amount of territory that needs to be covered that makes it long and complicated (I'm fairly sure that it is actually shorter than the WP ToU that it is derived from). > - Users don't read it because it is too boring, too long and too > difficult to understand (especially for the majority being not native > English speakers or understanding no English at all). They would be > surprised by the important parts later. > - Already active members of the community refuse to accept the terms > because they don't understand the needs and the content. > > If we need all that rules written down there, we should add a summary of > the points which are most important from our point of view at the > beginning. It could look like this: > > - You have access to personal data (OSM metadata). Please handle it > appropriate. > - Your contributions must not violate copyright. > - You must be 16 years or older to join OSM. > - We don't guarantee anything. [insert better wording here] We'll be discussing both the concept of a human readable summary and translations at a our meeting today (both ideas were floated at SOTM). I wouldn't put too much hope in it though, in the end we need users to agree to the terms themselves and not to a summary, adding one just means there is even more text that needs to be read (have a look at https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Terms_of_Use/en for the WP ToU). Translations are mainly an issue of cost (both initial and maintenance). > The OSMF has already a block policy ruling when users get blocked > permanently and how. If we add terms to the website, we should integrate > the block policy into the terms. This has the advantage that user > actively agree the block policy which makes it a lot easier to use it in > court (I am not talking about a fictional case here). > > Best regards > > Michael You were just complaining about the ToU being too long, adding the kitchen sink is definitely not going to make them shorter :-). Simon signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Osmf-talk] Draft Terms of use for the OSM website, API and other services
Dear all, how about a brief companion FAQ? I am happy to help with this (as mentioned in Milan) Michael, would you like to collaborate on this with us? heather Heather Leson heatherle...@gmail.com Twitter/skype: HeatherLeson Blog: textontechs.com On Thu, Aug 9, 2018 at 10:45 AM, Simon Poole wrote: > > > Am 08.08.2018 um 19:14 schrieb Michael Reichert: > > .. > > I read the draft and I think that is far too long. It does not invited > > to be read by the users. This can lead to following issues: > Just to be clear, we (the LWG) would prefer that it be shorter too, it > is just the amount of territory that needs to be covered that makes it > long and complicated (I'm fairly sure that it is actually shorter than > the WP ToU that it is derived from). > > > - Users don't read it because it is too boring, too long and too > > difficult to understand (especially for the majority being not native > > English speakers or understanding no English at all). They would be > > surprised by the important parts later. > > - Already active members of the community refuse to accept the terms > > because they don't understand the needs and the content. > > > > If we need all that rules written down there, we should add a summary of > > the points which are most important from our point of view at the > > beginning. It could look like this: > > > > - You have access to personal data (OSM metadata). Please handle it > > appropriate. > > - Your contributions must not violate copyright. > > - You must be 16 years or older to join OSM. > > - We don't guarantee anything. [insert better wording here] > > We'll be discussing both the concept of a human readable summary and > translations at a our meeting today (both ideas were floated at SOTM). > I wouldn't put too much hope in it though, in the end we need users to > agree to the terms themselves and not to a summary, adding one just > means there is even more text that needs to be read (have a look at > https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Terms_of_Use/en for the WP ToU). > Translations are mainly an issue of cost (both initial and maintenance). > > > The OSMF has already a block policy ruling when users get blocked > > permanently and how. If we add terms to the website, we should integrate > > the block policy into the terms. This has the advantage that user > > actively agree the block policy which makes it a lot easier to use it in > > court (I am not talking about a fictional case here). > > > > Best regards > > > > Michael > You were just complaining about the ToU being too long, adding the > kitchen sink is definitely not going to make them shorter :-). > > Simon > > > > > ___ > osmf-talk mailing list > osmf-t...@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/osmf-talk > > ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Learning to Use Machine Learning - A learn along for folks who want to be using ML in their work.
Dear Friends, In case you missed it, Dale Kunce tweeted this out yesterday: The day of Machine Learning and OSM/Humanitarian mapping reckoning is getting closer. Very excited for the possibilities these new methods have for @hotosm @RedCross. Next frontier is making HOT and @TheMissingMaps more valuable than just a training dataset for the machines. https://twitter.com/calimapnerd/status/1027275305440829440 Toward that end, I have been watching and in some cases working with various ML tool chains over the past 2 years and really, not having a lot of luck with my level of skill and knowledge. I am a pretty advanced sysadmin, comfortable on the command line, but understanding the terminology and installations has been a bit beyond me. So if anyone is like me and sees all of these great tool chains and would like to learn how to use them with your peers learning along with you and hopefully some experts as well, I created a dedicated #mlearning-basic channel on the OSM-US slack ( https://osmus-slack.herokuapp.com/ ) OSM-US runs a lovely, informative, lively, international slack with many channels and everyone is welcome! The #mlearning-basic channel is for the absolute beginner basics, how to install and use the existing and emerging tools chains and OSM/OAM data to generate usable vector data from Machine Learning quickly. You are all invited to join, but it is very basic. Hopefully some of the ML experts from the projects below will be in there to hand hold us newbies through actually making use of what we are seeing more and more everyday. Excellent tool chains exist, world changing tool chains, now we just need to get them into the hands of the people who need and want to use them everyday :) Everyone is welcome and encouraged to join, it is intended to be kind of a "learn-a-long". Our first project, my first project, is building on the Anthropocene Labs work and doing the same area using MapBoxes RobotSat tool chain using Danial's and Maning's posts as a guide. For reference please see this incredible work the community has shared in the past months, much like humanitarian mapping in general, the projects you see below will start changing the world over the next 12 months. Apologies if I missed any other OSM ML public projects, please reply and let us all know! = Anthropocene Labs @anthropoco #Humanitarian #drone imgs of #Rohingya refugee camps + pretrained model finetuned w @hotosm data. Not perfect maps but fast, small data need, works w diff imgs. Thx @UNmigration @OpenAerialMap @geonanayi @WeRobotics 4 #opendata & ideas! #cloudnative #geospatial #deeplearning https://twitter.com/anthropoco/status/1027268421442883584 = This post follows Daniel’s guide for detecting buildings in drone imagery in the Philippines. The goal of this exercise is for me to understand the basics of the pipeline and find ways to use the tool in identifying remote settlements from high resolution imagery (i.e drones). I’m not aiming for pixel-perfect detection (i.e precise geometry of the building). My main question is whether it can help direct a human mapper focus on specific areas in the imagery to map in OpenStreetMap. https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/maning/diary/44462 === Recently at Mapbox we open sourced RoboSat our end-to-end pipeline for feature extraction from aerial and satellite imagery. In the following I will show you how to run the full RoboSat pipeline on your own imagery using drone imagery from the OpenAerialMap project in the area of Tanzania as an example. https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/daniel-j-h/diary/44321 = Skynet is our machine learning platform. It quickly scans vast archives of satellite and drone imagery and delivers usable insights to decisionmakers. Our partners use Skynet to reliably extract roads and buildings from images that NASA, ESA, and private satellites and drones record daily. The tool is remarkably versatile. We are experimenting with using Skynet to detect electricity infrastructure, locate schools, and evaluate crop performance. https://developmentseed.org/projects/skynet/ = Deep learning techniques, esp. Convolutional Neural Networks (CNNs), are now widely studied for predictive analytics with remote sensing images, which can be further applied in different domains for ground object detection, population mapping, etc. These methods usually train predicting models with the supervision of a large set of training examples. https://www.geog.uni-heidelberg.de/gis/deepvgi_en.html === OSMDeepOD - OpenStreetMap (OSM) and Machine Learning (Deep Learning) based Object Detection from Aerial Imagery (Formerly also known as "OSM-Crosswalk-Detection"). http://www.hsr.ch/geometalab https://github.com/geometalab/OSMDeepOD == Respectfully,
[OSM-talk] Learning to Use Machine Learning - A learn along for folks who want to be using ML in their work.
Dear Friends, In case you missed it, Dale Kunce tweeted this out yesterday: The day of Machine Learning and OSM/Humanitarian mapping reckoning is getting closer. Very excited for the possibilities these new methods have for @hotosm @RedCross. Next frontier is making HOT and @TheMissingMaps more valuable than just a training dataset for the machines. https://twitter.com/calimapnerd/status/1027275305440829440 Toward that end, I have been watching and in some cases working with various ML tool chains over the past 2 years and really, not having a lot of luck with my level of skill and knowledge. I am a pretty advanced sysadmin, comfortable on the command line, but understanding the terminology and installations has been a bit beyond me. So if anyone is like me and sees all of these great tool chains and would like to learn how to use them with your peers learning along with you and hopefully some experts as well, I created a dedicated #mlearning-basic channel on the OSM-US slack ( https://osmus-slack.herokuapp.com/ ) OSM-US runs a lovely, informative, lively, international slack with many channels and everyone is welcome! The #mlearning-basic channel is for the absolute beginner basics, how to install and use the existing and emerging tools chains and OSM/OAM data to generate usable vector data from Machine Learning quickly. You are all invited to join, but it is very basic. Hopefully some of the ML experts from the projects below will be in there to hand hold us newbies through actually making use of what we are seeing more and more everyday. Excellent tool chains exist, world changing tool chains, now we just need to get them into the hands of the people who need and want to use them everyday :) Everyone is welcome and encouraged to join, it is intended to be kind of a "learn-a-long". Our first project, my first project, is building on the Anthropocene Labs work and doing the same area using MapBoxes RobotSat tool chain using Danial's and Maning's posts as a guide. For reference please see this incredible work the community has shared in the past months, much like humanitarian mapping in general, the projects you see below will start changing the world over the next 12 months. Apologies if I missed any other OSM ML public projects, please reply and let us all know! = Anthropocene Labs @anthropoco #Humanitarian #drone imgs of #Rohingya refugee camps + pretrained model finetuned w @hotosm data. Not perfect maps but fast, small data need, works w diff imgs. Thx @UNmigration @OpenAerialMap @geonanayi @WeRobotics 4 #opendata & ideas! #cloudnative #geospatial #deeplearning https://twitter.com/anthropoco/status/1027268421442883584 = This post follows Daniel’s guide for detecting buildings in drone imagery in the Philippines. The goal of this exercise is for me to understand the basics of the pipeline and find ways to use the tool in identifying remote settlements from high resolution imagery (i.e drones). I’m not aiming for pixel-perfect detection (i.e precise geometry of the building). My main question is whether it can help direct a human mapper focus on specific areas in the imagery to map in OpenStreetMap. https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/maning/diary/44462 === Recently at Mapbox we open sourced RoboSat our end-to-end pipeline for feature extraction from aerial and satellite imagery. In the following I will show you how to run the full RoboSat pipeline on your own imagery using drone imagery from the OpenAerialMap project in the area of Tanzania as an example. https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/daniel-j-h/diary/44321 = Skynet is our machine learning platform. It quickly scans vast archives of satellite and drone imagery and delivers usable insights to decisionmakers. Our partners use Skynet to reliably extract roads and buildings from images that NASA, ESA, and private satellites and drones record daily. The tool is remarkably versatile. We are experimenting with using Skynet to detect electricity infrastructure, locate schools, and evaluate crop performance. https://developmentseed.org/projects/skynet/ = Deep learning techniques, esp. Convolutional Neural Networks (CNNs), are now widely studied for predictive analytics with remote sensing images, which can be further applied in different domains for ground object detection, population mapping, etc. These methods usually train predicting models with the supervision of a large set of training examples. https://www.geog.uni-heidelberg.de/gis/deepvgi_en.html === OSMDeepOD - OpenStreetMap (OSM) and Machine Learning (Deep Learning) based Object Detection from Aerial Imagery (Formerly also known as "OSM-Crosswalk-Detection"). http://www.hsr.ch/geometalab https://github.com/geometalab/OSMDeepOD == Respectfully,
[OSM-talk] Is it technically and legally possible to add the Open Location Code to the OSM search?
Open Location Codes are also referred to as "plus codes". Since August 2015, Google Maps supports plus codes in their search engine. The algorithm is Open Source, licensed under the Apache License 2.0. and available on GitHub [1]. A plus code, can be generated at: https://plus.codes/ . It can be entered at the Google Maps search input box to find a location. A plus sign "+" is inserted in the code for recognition. It would be nice to have an interoperability. For example, a customer uses Google Map, but a dispatcher in a Call Center the OpenStreetMap. The OLC has got some interesting features: "Open Location Codes are derived from latitude and longitude coordinates, so they already exist everywhere. They are similar in length to a telephone number -- 849VCWC8+R9, for example -- but can often be shortened to only four or six digits when combined with a locality (CWC8+R9, Mountain View). Locations close to each other have similar codes. They can be encoded or decoded offline. The character set avoids similar looking characters, to reduce confusion and errors, and avoids vowels to make it unlikely that a code spells existing words.The Open Location Code is not case-sensitive, and can therefore be easily exchanged over the phone." [1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Location_Code Best regards, Oleksiy ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Is it technically and legally possible to add the Open Location Code to the OSM search?
So you are talking about an enhancement to Nominatim I assume? There is a process to request enhancements. Cheerio John On Thu, 9 Aug 2018, 9:35 am oleksiy.muzal...@bluewin.ch, < oleksiy.muzal...@bluewin.ch> wrote: > Open Location Codes are also referred to as "plus codes". Since August > 2015, Google Maps supports plus codes in their search engine. The algorithm > is Open Source, licensed under the Apache License 2.0. and available on > GitHub [1]. > > A plus code, can be generated at: https://plus.codes/ . It can be entered > at the Google Maps search input box to find a location. A plus sign "+" is > inserted in the code for recognition. > > It would be nice to have an interoperability. For example, a customer uses > Google Map, but a dispatcher in a Call Center the OpenStreetMap. The OLC > has got some interesting features: > > "Open Location Codes are derived from latitude and longitude coordinates, > so they already exist everywhere. They are similar in length to a telephone > number -- 849VCWC8+R9, for example -- but can often be shortened to only > four or six digits when combined with a locality (CWC8+R9, Mountain View). > Locations close to each other have similar codes. They can be encoded or > decoded offline. The character set avoids similar looking characters, to > reduce confusion and errors, and avoids vowels to make it unlikely that a > code spells existing words.The Open Location Code is not case-sensitive, > and can therefore be easily exchanged over the phone." [1] > > [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Location_Code > > Best regards, > Oleksiy > > ___ > talk mailing list > talk@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk > ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Is it technically and legally possible to add the Open Location Code to the OSM search?
I'm a big fan of plus codes, and even have a pending implementation of it in the Elasticsearch (as an aggregation hashing function). I doubt there are any legal restrictions on using this - the code is licensed under Apache 2, and Google states "Plus codes are free. There are no licensing fees or other costs. The technology is open-sourced." at https://plus.codes/ Not sure about the implementation complexities. On Thu, Aug 9, 2018 at 4:35 PM oleksiy.muzal...@bluewin.ch < oleksiy.muzal...@bluewin.ch> wrote: > Open Location Codes are also referred to as "plus codes". Since August > 2015, Google Maps supports plus codes in their search engine. The algorithm > is Open Source, licensed under the Apache License 2.0. and available on > GitHub [1]. > > A plus code, can be generated at: https://plus.codes/ . It can be entered > at the Google Maps search input box to find a location. A plus sign "+" is > inserted in the code for recognition. > > It would be nice to have an interoperability. For example, a customer uses > Google Map, but a dispatcher in a Call Center the OpenStreetMap. The OLC > has got some interesting features: > > "Open Location Codes are derived from latitude and longitude coordinates, > so they already exist everywhere. They are similar in length to a telephone > number -- 849VCWC8+R9, for example -- but can often be shortened to only > four or six digits when combined with a locality (CWC8+R9, Mountain View). > Locations close to each other have similar codes. They can be encoded or > decoded offline. The character set avoids similar looking characters, to > reduce confusion and errors, and avoids vowels to make it unlikely that a > code spells existing words.The Open Location Code is not case-sensitive, > and can therefore be easily exchanged over the phone." [1] > > [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Location_Code > > Best regards, > Oleksiy > > ___ > talk mailing list > talk@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk > ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Is it technically and legally possible to add the Open Location Code to the OSM search?
Hi, there's already a pull request https://github.com/openstreetmap/openstreetmap-website/pull/1818 Stefano Il giorno gio 9 ago 2018 alle ore 15:45 Yuri Astrakhan < yuriastrak...@gmail.com> ha scritto: > I'm a big fan of plus codes, and even have a pending implementation of it > in the Elasticsearch (as an aggregation hashing function). I doubt there > are any legal restrictions on using this - the code is licensed under > Apache 2, and Google states "Plus codes are free. There are no licensing > fees or other costs. The technology is open-sourced." at > https://plus.codes/ > Not sure about the implementation complexities. > > On Thu, Aug 9, 2018 at 4:35 PM oleksiy.muzal...@bluewin.ch < > oleksiy.muzal...@bluewin.ch> wrote: > >> Open Location Codes are also referred to as "plus codes". Since August >> 2015, Google Maps supports plus codes in their search engine. The algorithm >> is Open Source, licensed under the Apache License 2.0. and available on >> GitHub [1]. >> >> A plus code, can be generated at: https://plus.codes/ . It can be >> entered at the Google Maps search input box to find a location. A plus sign >> "+" is inserted in the code for recognition. >> >> It would be nice to have an interoperability. For example, a customer >> uses Google Map, but a dispatcher in a Call Center the OpenStreetMap. The >> OLC has got some interesting features: >> >> "Open Location Codes are derived from latitude and longitude coordinates, >> so they already exist everywhere. They are similar in length to a telephone >> number -- 849VCWC8+R9, for example -- but can often be shortened to only >> four or six digits when combined with a locality (CWC8+R9, Mountain View). >> Locations close to each other have similar codes. They can be encoded or >> decoded offline. The character set avoids similar looking characters, to >> reduce confusion and errors, and avoids vowels to make it unlikely that a >> code spells existing words.The Open Location Code is not case-sensitive, >> and can therefore be easily exchanged over the phone." [1] >> >> [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Location_Code >> >> Best regards, >> Oleksiy >> >> ___ >> talk mailing list >> talk@openstreetmap.org >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk >> > ___ > talk mailing list > talk@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk > ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Learning to Use Machine Learning - A learn along for folks who want to be using ML in their work.
As a quick reminder to any mapper who wants to use algorithmically generated data as a source for mapping work: If you upload such data without manually verifying the individual features against local knowledge or suitable primary data you are doing a mechanical edit or import and must follow the rules we have for those: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Automated_Edits_code_of_conduct https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/Guidelines Practically this would for example be the case if - when being asked about the validity of your mapping by a fellow mapper - you'd be inclined to answer "I don't know, that's what the algorithm generated". You would then be in the mechanical edit/import domain. This is not a new topic, we have had this kind of problem in the past on several occasions, for example with use of automated tracing tools like scanaerial - which can be used both productively and responsibly for manual mapping as well as for doing bad quality mechanical edits/imports. And in particular with algorithms advertised with the terms 'learning' and 'intelligence' implying human like capability and thereby a lack of need for human control and verification this is important to keep in mind. If you are not controlling the algorithm yourself but are being given pre-generated data by others for the purpose of uploading it to OSM - with or without manual verification - you are always doing an import and need to follow the guidelines. Side note: It would be a responsible thing to include a reminder like what i wrote above with a message like the one i reply to here or in the welcome messages/FAQs etc. of dedicated communication channels. -- Christoph Hormann http://www.imagico.de/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Learning to Use Machine Learning - A learn along for folks who want to be using ML in their work.
sent from a phone > On 9. Aug 2018, at 15:54, Christoph Hormann wrote: > > If you are not controlling the algorithm yourself but are being given > pre-generated data by others for the purpose of uploading it to OSM - > with or without manual verification - you are always doing an import > and need to follow the guidelines. +1 Also if you are controlling the algorithm yourself but are not manually and individually verifying its outcome, you are performing an import. cheers, Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Learning to Use Machine Learning - A learn along for folks who want to be using ML in their work.
Hi Christoph, Thank you very much adding that notice, I was sure someone would :) There are also a tremendous about of use cases for these tools that do not involve putting data in OSM. But rest assure, myself and everyone I interact with know about the guidelines and no one suggests ever not following them. These are really the early efforts to "operationalize" or create workflows for different use cases. Those guidelines will always be the core of any workflow that puts data in OSM I am quite sure. Thank you for doing the responsible thing and reminding us all. Cheers Blake On Thu, Aug 9, 2018 at 9:54 AM, Christoph Hormann wrote: > > As a quick reminder to any mapper who wants to use algorithmically > generated data as a source for mapping work: > > If you upload such data without manually verifying the individual > features against local knowledge or suitable primary data you are doing > a mechanical edit or import and must follow the rules we have for > those: > > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Automated_Edits_code_of_conduct > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/Guidelines > > Practically this would for example be the case if - when being asked > about the validity of your mapping by a fellow mapper - you'd be > inclined to answer "I don't know, that's what the algorithm generated". > You would then be in the mechanical edit/import domain. > > This is not a new topic, we have had this kind of problem in the past on > several occasions, for example with use of automated tracing tools like > scanaerial - which can be used both productively and responsibly for > manual mapping as well as for doing bad quality mechanical > edits/imports. And in particular with algorithms advertised with the > terms 'learning' and 'intelligence' implying human like capability and > thereby a lack of need for human control and verification this is > important to keep in mind. > > If you are not controlling the algorithm yourself but are being given > pre-generated data by others for the purpose of uploading it to OSM - > with or without manual verification - you are always doing an import > and need to follow the guidelines. > > Side note: It would be a responsible thing to include a reminder like > what i wrote above with a message like the one i reply to here or in > the welcome messages/FAQs etc. of dedicated communication channels. > > -- > Christoph Hormann > http://www.imagico.de/ > > ___ > talk mailing list > talk@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- Blake Girardot Humanitarian OpenStreetMap Team ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [HOT] Learning to Use Machine Learning - A learn along for folks who want to be using ML in their work.
Of course the really nice thing to do would be to compare the new scanned buildings with the existing o nes then tag all the ones with an overlap where the old was shall we say twice the size of the new. It really could make a tremendous differ ence to data quality especially if HOT ran a few clean up projects in the worst areas. Cheerio John On 9 Aug 2018 11:32 am, "Dale Kunce" wrote: @Blake Girardot Fantastic Job pulling together all these resources for folks. I'm really am excited for all the possibilities and time savings and better data the machines will give us. However, with emphasis, I'm also excited by the work that HOT is doing and has been doing to prepare for the machines. To answer a lot of the questions will inevitably come up. For instance: How will humans verify the results? What will a mapathon look like in 2 years? Do we still need to trace X features? How do machines fit in with OSM culture? I believe firmly that OSM is best when a human is the one that makes the final edit. I do see many workflows happening that will allow us to take advantage of the great work that our corporate partners and community are coming up with. Looking forward to learning and working on these issues together. On Thu, Aug 9, 2018 at 6:02 AM john whelan wrote: > One does hope that a manual check will be part of the process? > > Thanks John > > On 9 August 2018 at 08:10, Blake Girardot wrote: > >> Dear Friends, >> >> In case you missed it, Dale Kunce tweeted this out yesterday: >> >> The day of Machine Learning and OSM/Humanitarian mapping reckoning is >> getting closer. Very excited for the possibilities these new methods >> have for @hotosm @RedCross. Next frontier is making HOT and >> @TheMissingMaps more valuable than just a training dataset for the >> machines. >> >> https://twitter.com/calimapnerd/status/1027275305440829440 >> >> Toward that end, I have been watching and in some cases working with >> various ML tool chains over the past 2 years and really, not having a >> lot of luck with my level of skill and knowledge. I am a pretty >> advanced sysadmin, comfortable on the command line, but understanding >> the terminology and installations has been a bit beyond me. >> >> So if anyone is like me and sees all of these great tool chains and >> would like to learn how to use them with your peers learning along >> with you and hopefully some experts as well, I created a dedicated >> #mlearning-basic channel on the OSM-US slack ( >> https://osmus-slack.herokuapp.com/ ) >> >> OSM-US runs a lovely, informative, lively, international slack with >> many channels and everyone is welcome! >> >> The #mlearning-basic channel is for the absolute beginner basics, how >> to install and use the existing and emerging tools chains and OSM/OAM >> data to generate usable vector data from Machine Learning quickly. >> >> You are all invited to join, but it is very basic. Hopefully some of >> the ML experts from the projects below will be in there to hand hold >> us newbies through actually making use of what we are seeing more and >> more everyday. Excellent tool chains exist, world changing tool >> chains, now we just need to get them into the hands of the people who >> need and want to use them everyday :) >> >> Everyone is welcome and encouraged to join, it is intended to be kind >> of a "learn-a-long". Our first project, my first project, is building >> on the Anthropocene Labs work and doing the same area using MapBoxes >> RobotSat tool chain using Danial's and Maning's posts as a guide. >> >> For reference please see this incredible work the community has shared >> in the past months, much like humanitarian mapping in general, the >> projects you see below will start changing the world over the next 12 >> months. Apologies if I missed any other OSM ML public projects, please >> reply and let us all know! >> >> = >> >> Anthropocene Labs @anthropoco >> >> #Humanitarian #drone imgs of #Rohingya refugee camps + pretrained >> model finetuned w @hotosm data. Not perfect maps but fast, small data >> need, works w diff imgs. Thx @UNmigration @OpenAerialMap @geonanayi >> @WeRobotics 4 #opendata & ideas! #cloudnative #geospatial >> #deeplearning >> https://twitter.com/anthropoco/status/1027268421442883584 >> >> = >> >> This post follows Daniel’s guide for detecting buildings in drone >> imagery in the Philippines. The goal of this exercise is for me to >> understand the basics of the pipeline and find ways to use the tool in >> identifying remote settlements from high resolution imagery (i.e >> drones). I’m not aiming for pixel-perfect detection (i.e precise >> geometry of the building). My main question is whether it can help >> direct a human mapper focus on specific areas in the imagery to map in >> OpenStreetMap. >> >> https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/maning/diary/44462 >> >> === >> >> Recently at Mapbox we open sourced RoboSa
Re: [OSM-talk] Is it technically and legally possible to add the Open Location Code to the OSM search?
The Tanzania Development trust has calculated the Plus Code addresses for 17 million building points in Tanzania and have added a sample village (1800 points) as a test. https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/59213224 The Python code on Github works great to calculate Plus Codes. We did used these tags: addr:pluscode:full (the 8+2 digit full Plus Code) addr:pluscode:area (the first 4 digits of the full Plus Code which is a 1 degree by 1 degree lat long area) addr:pluscode:local (the second 4 digits + last 2 digits which used with a local name becomes the local address) On Thu, Aug 9, 2018 at 6:48 AM, Stefano wrote: > Hi, > there's already a pull request > https://github.com/openstreetmap/openstreetmap-website/pull/1818 > > Stefano > > Il giorno gio 9 ago 2018 alle ore 15:45 Yuri Astrakhan < > yuriastrak...@gmail.com> ha scritto: > >> I'm a big fan of plus codes, and even have a pending implementation of it >> in the Elasticsearch (as an aggregation hashing function). I doubt there >> are any legal restrictions on using this - the code is licensed under >> Apache 2, and Google states "Plus codes are free. There are no licensing >> fees or other costs. The technology is open-sourced." at >> https://plus.codes/ >> Not sure about the implementation complexities. >> >> On Thu, Aug 9, 2018 at 4:35 PM oleksiy.muzal...@bluewin.ch < >> oleksiy.muzal...@bluewin.ch> wrote: >> >>> Open Location Codes are also referred to as "plus codes". Since August >>> 2015, Google Maps supports plus codes in their search engine. The algorithm >>> is Open Source, licensed under the Apache License 2.0. and available on >>> GitHub [1]. >>> >>> A plus code, can be generated at: https://plus.codes/ . It can be >>> entered at the Google Maps search input box to find a location. A plus sign >>> "+" is inserted in the code for recognition. >>> >>> It would be nice to have an interoperability. For example, a customer >>> uses Google Map, but a dispatcher in a Call Center the OpenStreetMap. The >>> OLC has got some interesting features: >>> >>> "Open Location Codes are derived from latitude and longitude >>> coordinates, so they already exist everywhere. They are similar in length >>> to a telephone number -- 849VCWC8+R9, for example -- but can often be >>> shortened to only four or six digits when combined with a locality >>> (CWC8+R9, Mountain View). Locations close to each other have similar codes. >>> They can be encoded or decoded offline. The character set avoids similar >>> looking characters, to reduce confusion and errors, and avoids vowels to >>> make it unlikely that a code spells existing words.The Open Location Code >>> is not case-sensitive, and can therefore be easily exchanged over the >>> phone." [1] >>> >>> [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Location_Code >>> >>> Best regards, >>> Oleksiy >>> >>> ___ >>> talk mailing list >>> talk@openstreetmap.org >>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk >>> >> ___ >> talk mailing list >> talk@openstreetmap.org >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk >> > > ___ > talk mailing list > talk@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk > > ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Is it technically and legally possible to add the Open Location Code to the OSM search?
On Thu, Aug 9, 2018 at 4:48 PM, Vao Matua wrote: > The Tanzania Development trust has calculated the Plus Code addresses for 17 > million building points in Tanzania and have added a sample village (1800 > points) as a test. > https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/59213224 > > The Python code on Github works great to calculate Plus Codes. > > We did used these tags: > addr:pluscode:full (the 8+2 digit full Plus Code) > addr:pluscode:area (the first 4 digits of the full Plus Code which is a 1 > degree by 1 degree lat long area) > addr:pluscode:local (the second 4 digits + last 2 digits which used with a > local name becomes the local address) > This is really cool to hear! I am a big fan of OLC / Pluse Codes I passed this thread on to the folks at Google Zurich who created it originally, not sure if they still work there or not, we last chatted in 2016, but I am sure they will be glad to stop in and answer questions if I can raise them. Cheers blake ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Is it technically and legally possible to add the Open Location Code to the OSM search?
Hi, On 08/09/2018 10:48 PM, Vao Matua wrote: > The Tanzania Development trust has calculated the Plus Code addresses > for 17 million building points in Tanzania and have added a sample > village (1800 points) as a test. This is not a good idea. Please don't do it. It does not make sense! If someone searches for a plus code on a web site, the site can compute the lat/lon and take you there, WITHOUT having to add billions of plus code points all over the word. Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09" E008°23'33" ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Is it technically and legally possible to add the Open Location Code to the OSM search?
It is a good idea for the unconnected part of the world. If you have access to a website you might as well use three-silly-words. If you have a stand-alone app with the Plus Codes on the buildings then someone can easily communicate that information. Internet connectivity is not world wide. On Thu, Aug 9, 2018 at 2:27 PM, Frederik Ramm wrote: > Hi, > > On 08/09/2018 10:48 PM, Vao Matua wrote: > > The Tanzania Development trust has calculated the Plus Code addresses > > for 17 million building points in Tanzania and have added a sample > > village (1800 points) as a test. > > This is not a good idea. Please don't do it. It does not make sense! If > someone searches for a plus code on a web site, the site can compute the > lat/lon and take you there, WITHOUT having to add billions of plus code > points all over the word. > > Bye > Frederik > > -- > Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09" E008°23'33" > > ___ > talk mailing list > talk@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk > ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Is it technically and legally possible to add the Open Location Code to the OSM search?
So if OSMand or some such could handle them in a search off line that would be acceptable? They are generated from long and lat after all. My feeling is adding them to Nominatim is not a perfect solution as it implies OpenStreetMap supports them rather than something else but from a practical point of view it would solve a lot of problems. Not least the idea that tags get added to every building with some sort of address code. How many different codes for buildings are we going to see? Currently locally addr: has number, postcode and street name so its difficult to logically say its one rule for one country and another for a different one. Cheerio John On 9 August 2018 at 17:40, Vao Matua wrote: > It is a good idea for the unconnected part of the world. If you have > access to a website you might as well use three-silly-words. > If you have a stand-alone app with the Plus Codes on the buildings then > someone can easily communicate that information. > Internet connectivity is not world wide. > > On Thu, Aug 9, 2018 at 2:27 PM, Frederik Ramm wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> On 08/09/2018 10:48 PM, Vao Matua wrote: >> > The Tanzania Development trust has calculated the Plus Code addresses >> > for 17 million building points in Tanzania and have added a sample >> > village (1800 points) as a test. >> >> This is not a good idea. Please don't do it. It does not make sense! If >> someone searches for a plus code on a web site, the site can compute the >> lat/lon and take you there, WITHOUT having to add billions of plus code >> points all over the word. >> >> Bye >> Frederik >> >> -- >> Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09" E008°23'33" >> >> ___ >> talk mailing list >> talk@openstreetmap.org >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk >> > > > ___ > talk mailing list > talk@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk > > ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Is it technically and legally possible to add the Open Location Code to the OSM search?
sent from a phone > On 9. Aug 2018, at 23:40, Vao Matua wrote: > > Internet connectivity is not world wide. it is available everywhere, but you have to be able and willing to afford it (it might cost several orders of magnitude more than cellphone internet in europe). cheers, Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Is it technically and legally possible to add the Open Location Code to the OSM search?
sent from a phone > On 9. Aug 2018, at 23:57, john whelan wrote: > > My feeling is adding them to Nominatim is not a perfect solution as it > implies OpenStreetMap supports them rather than something else on the other hand we are supporting proprietary, copyrighted systems like postcodes. If a location coding system is freely and openly available and has gained some traction, I feel we should try to support it. Cheers, Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Is it technically and legally possible to add the Open Location Code to the OSM search?
I use Plus Codes with OSMand offline and it works well. If we are worried about the number of tags we should remove all tags and convince everyone to just use lat/long. The ability to verbally tell someone a location like 47RP+XG Dar-es-Salaam is much easier than -6.85748/39.28613 Suspend disbelief, sometimes new things are better. On Thu, Aug 9, 2018 at 2:57 PM, john whelan wrote: > So if OSMand or some such could handle them in a search off line that > would be acceptable? They are generated from long and lat after all. > > My feeling is adding them to Nominatim is not a perfect solution as it > implies OpenStreetMap supports them rather than something else but from a > practical point of view it would solve a lot of problems. Not least the > idea that tags get added to every building with some sort of address code. > How many different codes for buildings are we going to see? > > Currently locally addr: has number, postcode and street name so its > difficult to logically say its one rule for one country and another for a > different one. > > Cheerio John > > On 9 August 2018 at 17:40, Vao Matua wrote: > >> It is a good idea for the unconnected part of the world. If you have >> access to a website you might as well use three-silly-words. >> If you have a stand-alone app with the Plus Codes on the buildings then >> someone can easily communicate that information. >> Internet connectivity is not world wide. >> >> On Thu, Aug 9, 2018 at 2:27 PM, Frederik Ramm >> wrote: >> >>> Hi, >>> >>> On 08/09/2018 10:48 PM, Vao Matua wrote: >>> > The Tanzania Development trust has calculated the Plus Code addresses >>> > for 17 million building points in Tanzania and have added a sample >>> > village (1800 points) as a test. >>> >>> This is not a good idea. Please don't do it. It does not make sense! If >>> someone searches for a plus code on a web site, the site can compute the >>> lat/lon and take you there, WITHOUT having to add billions of plus code >>> points all over the word. >>> >>> Bye >>> Frederik >>> >>> -- >>> Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09" E008°23'33" >>> >>> ___ >>> talk mailing list >>> talk@openstreetmap.org >>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk >>> >> >> >> ___ >> talk mailing list >> talk@openstreetmap.org >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk >> >> > ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Is it technically and legally possible to add the Open Location Code to the OSM search?
Hi, On 08/10/2018 12:04 AM, Vao Matua wrote: > I use Plus Codes with OSMand offline and it works well. If we are > worried about the number of tags we should remove all tags and convince > everyone to just use lat/long. There's absolutely nothing to be said against OSMand using plus codes, indeed, this proves that plus codes can be used perfectly well without adding them to the OSM database. I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "remove all tags and convince everyone to just use lat/long". Our tags describe not *where* something is, but *what* something is, a feature certainly as useful in Tanzania as elsewhere. The description of *where* something is does indeed happen by latitude and longitude in OSM. In some countries we add street addresses, but only because there's no mathematical way to derive a lat/long from the address. If it were possible to apply a formula to an address and arrive at a lat/long, or apply a formula to a lat/long and arrive at a street address, nobody would be mapping them. Just as nobody should be mapping plus codes. Put the formula in the device (e.g. OSMand) and you have plus code support for the whole planet. No need to import billions of address points. It's faster, cleaner, and less likely to break. Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09" E008°23'33" ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Is it technically and legally possible to add the Open Location Code to the OSM search?
If those codes can be encoded and decoded offline, it should be dealt with offline by the client, not a server-side application like Nominatim. Yves Le 10 août 2018 00:04:56 GMT+02:00, Vao Matua a écrit : >I use Plus Codes with OSMand offline and it works well. If we are >worried >about the number of tags we should remove all tags and convince >everyone to >just use lat/long. >The ability to verbally tell someone a location like 47RP+XG >Dar-es-Salaam >is much easier than -6.85748/39.28613 >Suspend disbelief, sometimes new things are better. > >On Thu, Aug 9, 2018 at 2:57 PM, john whelan >wrote: > >> So if OSMand or some such could handle them in a search off line that >> would be acceptable? They are generated from long and lat after all. >> >> My feeling is adding them to Nominatim is not a perfect solution as >it >> implies OpenStreetMap supports them rather than something else but >from a >> practical point of view it would solve a lot of problems. Not least >the >> idea that tags get added to every building with some sort of address >code. >> How many different codes for buildings are we going to see? >> >> Currently locally addr: has number, postcode and street name so its >> difficult to logically say its one rule for one country and another >for a >> different one. >> >> Cheerio John >> >> On 9 August 2018 at 17:40, Vao Matua wrote: >> >>> It is a good idea for the unconnected part of the world. If you have >>> access to a website you might as well use three-silly-words. >>> If you have a stand-alone app with the Plus Codes on the buildings >then >>> someone can easily communicate that information. >>> Internet connectivity is not world wide. >>> >>> On Thu, Aug 9, 2018 at 2:27 PM, Frederik Ramm >>> wrote: >>> Hi, On 08/09/2018 10:48 PM, Vao Matua wrote: > The Tanzania Development trust has calculated the Plus Code >addresses > for 17 million building points in Tanzania and have added a >sample > village (1800 points) as a test. This is not a good idea. Please don't do it. It does not make >sense! If someone searches for a plus code on a web site, the site can >compute the lat/lon and take you there, WITHOUT having to add billions of plus >code points all over the word. Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09" >E008°23'33" ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk >>> >>> >>> ___ >>> talk mailing list >>> talk@openstreetmap.org >>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk >>> >>> >> ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Is it technically and legally possible to add the Open Location Code to the OSM search?
Think about what you have just said. If I have an internet connection available and I'm running JOSM how would I find them if Nominatim wasn't available. Cheerio John On Thu, 9 Aug 2018, 6:28 pm Yves, wrote: > If those codes can be encoded and decoded offline, it should be dealt with > offline by the client, not a server-side application like Nominatim. > Yves > > Le 10 août 2018 00:04:56 GMT+02:00, Vao Matua a > écrit : >> >> I use Plus Codes with OSMand offline and it works well. If we are worried >> about the number of tags we should remove all tags and convince everyone to >> just use lat/long. >> The ability to verbally tell someone a location like 47RP+XG >> Dar-es-Salaam is much easier than -6.85748/39.28613 >> Suspend disbelief, sometimes new things are better. >> >> On Thu, Aug 9, 2018 at 2:57 PM, john whelan >> wrote: >> >>> So if OSMand or some such could handle them in a search off line that >>> would be acceptable? They are generated from long and lat after all. >>> >>> My feeling is adding them to Nominatim is not a perfect solution as it >>> implies OpenStreetMap supports them rather than something else but from a >>> practical point of view it would solve a lot of problems. Not least the >>> idea that tags get added to every building with some sort of address code. >>> How many different codes for buildings are we going to see? >>> >>> Currently locally addr: has number, postcode and street name so its >>> difficult to logically say its one rule for one country and another for a >>> different one. >>> >>> Cheerio John >>> >>> On 9 August 2018 at 17:40, Vao Matua wrote: >>> It is a good idea for the unconnected part of the world. If you have access to a website you might as well use three-silly-words. If you have a stand-alone app with the Plus Codes on the buildings then someone can easily communicate that information. Internet connectivity is not world wide. On Thu, Aug 9, 2018 at 2:27 PM, Frederik Ramm wrote: > Hi, > > On 08/09/2018 10:48 PM, Vao Matua wrote: > > The Tanzania Development trust has calculated the Plus Code addresses > > for 17 million building points in Tanzania and have added a sample > > village (1800 points) as a test. > > This is not a good idea. Please don't do it. It does not make sense! If > someone searches for a plus code on a web site, the site can compute > the > lat/lon and take you there, WITHOUT having to add billions of plus code > points all over the word. > > Bye > Frederik > > -- > Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09" > E008°23'33" > > ___ > talk mailing list > talk@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk > ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk >>> >> ___ > talk mailing list > talk@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk > ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] 2 Great Lakes missing
Hi, Is anybody aware what happened to Lake Superior and Lake Huron? https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/4039486 https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/1205151 They were changed 20 and 3 days ago, respectively, and they stopped being rendered both on default and on humanitarian map. -- "My method is uncertain/ It's a mess but it's working" [F. Apple] ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] 2 Great Lakes missing
someone probably broke them again... happens quite often sadly... On Thu., Aug. 9, 2018, 9:05 p.m. Daniel Koć, wrote: > Hi, > > Is anybody aware what happened to Lake Superior and Lake Huron? > > https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/4039486 > > https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/1205151 > > > They were changed 20 and 3 days ago, respectively, and they stopped > being rendered both on default and on humanitarian map. > > > -- > "My method is uncertain/ It's a mess but it's working" [F. Apple] > > > > ___ > talk mailing list > talk@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk > ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Is it technically and legally possible to add the Open Location Code to the OSM search?
On 10.08.18 00:13, Blake Girardot HOT/OSM wrote: This is really cool to hear! I am a big fan of OLC / Pluse Codes I passed this thread on to the folks at Google Zurich who created it originally, not sure if they still work there or not, we last chatted in 2016, but I am sure they will be glad to stop in and answer questions if I can raise them. Cheers blake ___ I read here https://plus.codes/developers that they work on implementations in other languages. On the practical side, I know that a new driver at a delivery service may spend in some cases up to three - four hours to deliver one Internet order in a city (I had some interviews with delivery drivers). There are new apartment buildings which are not yet in navigators, some houses are several hundred meters long [1], etc. This excessive senseless driving is not only expensive but also harms environment. I think it makes sense to implement the OLC as a practical attempt to improve the archaic (or absent) street-name & house-number address system, to start people realizing that there is a way now to specify the exact location over email and over telephone unequivocally, so no waste of time and fuel is necessary anymore. Besides, I assume it was done already technically, - there is the pull request already. About 50% of all traffic is one or another kind of delivery. The OLC may improve situation with traffic jams and CO2 pollution, which concerns all. If people start using the OLC massively, there will be, most probably, further attempts to improve it since it is Open Source. [1] https://osm.org/go/0iaifBuGU--?m= Best regards, Oleksiy ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
