Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Mesure d'une distance à vol d'oiseau

2024-04-14 Thread Lionel Allorge

Bonjour Sébastien,


Celui-ci ne propose pas de carte, mais on peut saisir précisément les
coordonnées géographiques :

https://fr.planetcalc.com/722/


Je viens de faire un essai avec ce dernier entre un point situé en
France et un autre en Italie. L'outil propose une approximation de la
trajectoire par un découpage en 20 segments à cap constant :

https://fr.planetcalc.com/722/?pointsCount=20=wgs84=12.6436944=43.687524=1.48171946=43.5688245


Merci.

Librement.
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https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Liot

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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Mesure d'une distance à vol d'oiseau

2024-04-14 Thread Sébastien Dinot
Sébastien Dinot a écrit :
> Celui-ci ne propose pas de carte, mais on peut saisir précisément les
> coordonnées géographiques :
> 
> https://fr.planetcalc.com/722/

Je viens de faire un essai avec ce dernier entre un point situé en
France et un autre en Italie. L'outil propose une approximation de la
trajectoire par un découpage en 20 segments à cap constant :

https://fr.planetcalc.com/722/?pointsCount=20=wgs84=12.6436944=43.687524=1.48171946=43.5688245

Sébastien

-- 
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Mesure d'une distance à vol d'oiseau

2024-04-14 Thread Sébastien Dinot
Bonjour Lionel,

Lionel Allorge a écrit :
> Existe-t-il un outil dans OSM pour mesurer une distance entre 2 poins
> à la surface de la Terre à vol d'oiseau donc sans tenir compte des
> routes mais en prenant en compte la rotondité de la Terre ?

Je n'ai pas connaissance d'un tel outil dans le giron OSM, mais il doit
bien exister. :)

Ceci étant, moult sites proposent cette fonction en ligne, à partir des
seules données qui comptent : les coordonnées géographiques des points
de départ et d'arrivée.

La distance la plus courte entre deux points d'une sphère s'appelle la
« distance orthodromique ». La trajectoire qui en résulte est complexe
à suivre, car elle ne se fait pas à cap constant. C'est par exemple la
route suivie par un avion allant de Paris à New-York, en passant pas
loin du Groenland, ce qui est contre-intuitif lorsqu'on regarde une
carte :

https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orthodromie

La distance la plus courte à cap constant est la « distance
loxodromique » :

https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loxodromie

Après une rapide recherche, je tombe sur celui-ci qui ne permet que le
positionnement très approximatif des points de départ et d'arrivée :

https://phyanim.sciences.univ-nantes.fr/Meca/RefTerre/Orthodromie1.php

Celui-ci ne propose pas de carte, mais on peut saisir précisément les
coordonnées géographiques :

https://fr.planetcalc.com/722/

Sébastien

-- 
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Re: [OSM-talk] Speedflying lines on OSM

2024-04-14 Thread Frederik Ramm

Hi,

On 4/14/24 07:31, Pesho Ivanov wrote:

   3) speedflying lines are always observable from the ground and it can be 
improved by mappers


Can you elaborate on that? How can I go to a place and see "ah, 
obviously there's a speedflying line here"?


And if two speedflyers disagree over whether the "correct" line is 20 
metres to the west or 20 metres to the east, how can they meet at the 
location and settle their dispute by looking at the ground?


Bye
Frederik

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[OSM-talk-fr] hebdoOSM Nº 716 04/04/2024-10/04/2024

2024-04-14 Thread weeklyteam
Bonjour,

Le résumé hebdomadaire n° 716 de l'actualité OpenStreetMap vient de paraître 
*en français*. Un condensé à retrouver sur :

https://www.weeklyosm.eu/fr/archives/17163/

Bonne lecture !

Saviez-vous que vous pouvez vous aussi soumettre des messages pour la note 
hebdomadaire sans être membre ? Il vous suffit de vous connecter sur 
https://osmbc.openstreetmap.de/login avec votre compte OSM. Pour en savoir plus 
sur la rédaction d'un article, cliquez ici: 
https://www.weeklyosm.eu/fr/this-news-should-be-in-weeklyosm

hebdoOSM ? 
Qui : https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WeeklyOSM#Available_Languages 
Où : 
https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/weeklyosm-is-currently-produced-in_56718#2/8.6/108.3
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[talk-ph] weeklyOSM #716 04/04/2024-10/04/2024

2024-04-14 Thread weeklyteam
The weekly round-up of OSM news, issue # 716,
is now available online in English, giving as always a summary of a lot of 
things happening in the openstreetmap world:

https://www.weeklyosm.eu/archives/17163

Enjoy! 

Did you know that you can also submit messages for the weeklyOSM? Just log in 
to https://osmbc.openstreetmap.de/login with your OSM account. Read more about 
how to write a post here: 
https://www.weeklyosm.eu/this-news-should-be-in-weeklyosm 

weeklyOSM? 
who: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WeeklyOSM#Available_Languages 
where?: 
https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/weeklyosm-is-currently-produced-in_56718#2/8.6/108.3
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[OSM-talk] weeklyOSM #716 04/04/2024-10/04/2024

2024-04-14 Thread weeklyteam
The weekly round-up of OSM news, issue # 716,
is now available online in English, giving as always a summary of a lot of 
things happening in the openstreetmap world:

https://www.weeklyosm.eu/archives/17163

Enjoy! 

Did you know that you can also submit messages for the weeklyOSM? Just log in 
to https://osmbc.openstreetmap.de/login with your OSM account. Read more about 
how to write a post here: 
https://www.weeklyosm.eu/this-news-should-be-in-weeklyosm 

weeklyOSM? 
who: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WeeklyOSM#Available_Languages 
where?: 
https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/weeklyosm-is-currently-produced-in_56718#2/8.6/108.3
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[OSM-talk-fr] Mesure d'une distance à vol d'oiseau

2024-04-14 Thread Lionel Allorge

Bonjour,

Existe-t-il un outil dans OSM pour mesurer une distance entre 2 poins à 
la surface de la Terre à vol d'oiseau donc sans tenir compte des routes 
mais en prenant en compte la rotondité de la Terre ?


Merci d'avance pour vos réponses.

Librement.
--
Liot
https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Liot

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Re: [OSM-talk] Speedflying lines on OSM

2024-04-14 Thread Pesho Ivanov
Thank you for the immediate feedback, LaoshuBaby.

> If other mappers on the ground can also confirm the existence of your 
> speedflying route (of course, this might require the mapper to have 
> experience in speedflying, but among the many mappers worldwide, there are 
> bound to be others with the relevant background knowledge)

Yes, surely observers can verify the existence of speedflying lines, in a 
pretty straight-forward analogy with climbing areas and climbing routes. Some 
landings and takeoffs are shared with paragliding pilots, and already exist in 
OSM.

The descriptions of most speedflying lines indeed include not only the takeoff 
and landing but such limiting features like ridges, cracks, valleys, power 
lines and cable cars.

Regarding FOSS, it is indeed amazing how much is possible on top of OSM. I 
guess, the main reason to prefer the OSM database is to benefit from the 
general adoption of OSM maps.

Pesho




On Sunday, April 14th, 2024 at 1:57 AM, 快乐的老鼠宝宝  
wrote:

> 
> 
> > 2) speedflying lines are not orthogonal to on-the-ground mapping -- very 
> > dependent on hazards like the relief and mapped OSM features such as cable 
> > cars, electricity lines, ski-pists ...
> 
> > 3) speedflying lines are always observable from the ground and it can be 
> > improved by mappers
> 
> 
> Firstly, personally, I find these two points very important, as OSM requires 
> verifiability, as seen in [reply1-1].
> 
> If other mappers on the ground can also confirm the existence of your 
> speedflying route (of course, this might require the mapper to have 
> experience in speedflying, but among the many mappers worldwide, there are 
> bound to be others with the relevant background knowledge),
> 
> Then perhaps we can treat it like sports such as golf and skiing. Therefore, 
> I am inclined to vote approve it when raise a proposal.
> 
> As for other geographical features that serve as important landmarks (such as 
> iconic trees), perhaps they can be created within the route's relation?
> 
> > 8) speedflying information is unavailable in any free (free as in FOSS) 
> > database, and for countries away from the Alps it is hard to find even 
> > private maps
> 
> 
> Because the technology of OSM is FOSS (Free and Open Source Software), we are 
> able to have a very large and rich array of downstream projects.
> 
> In theory, even if you are not allowed to draw those route, you can use OSM's 
> tiles as a basemap and maintain a database that only contains speedflying 
> routes, using the OSM technology stack (just like OpenGeofiction).
> 
> And since your "OpenSpeedflyingMap" would only contain data on flying routes, 
> it would be quite simple to render an overlay.
> 
> (Of course, this is based on the assumption that your proposal is rejected, 
> but even if your addition to OSM is turned down, you could still try to share 
> routes in an open knowledge way (I am also looking forward to seeing someone 
> do this, even though I am not an extreme sports enthusiast))
> 
> [reply1-1] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Verifiability
> 
> 
> LaoshuBaby (aka. 快乐的老鼠宝宝)
> 
> 2024年4月14日 星期日 下午 1:31,Pesho Ivanov iva...@pesho.info 来信:
> 
> > Hi OSM contributors,
> > 
> > As a pilot and a contributor to FOSS, I want to contribute available 
> > speedflying lines to OSM for the good of the pilots and everyone who 
> > potentially intersects with them on the ground (skiers, property owners, 
> > forest rangers, etc.). Following the aviation recommendations [2], I first 
> > want to first discuss this idea with the OSM community.
> > 
> > Speedflying is a type of paragliding which is mostly about proximity flying 
> > (very low over the ground) or even speedriding (simultaneous skiing and 
> > flying). In order to share information between each other, pilots are 
> > plotting speedflying lines over maps (see [1] for an aggregation of lines 
> > which the authors agree on importing to OSM).
> > 
> > The Aviation recommendations in OSM [2] mostly ban airspace information in 
> > OSM and I agree with this premise — since aviation information is mostly 
> > independent from Earth mapping and use. Nevertheless, unlike aviation, 
> > speedflying is a sport of flying short downward lines, staying zero to tens 
> > of meters/feet above ground, which makes the whole sport primarily dictated 
> > by the relief and what sticks out of it (incl. buildings, ski slopes, cable 
> > cars, electricity lines, etc). This makes speedflying lines very different 
> > from any aviation routes, and rather resemble climbing routes in OSM [3].
> > 
> > Next, I want to argument my opinion that speedflying lines belong to OSM by 
> > commenting on all the rational points in the Aviation wiki page [2]:
> > 1) speedflying lines often coincide with existing features, like a river, 
> > ridge, valley. speedflying routes are mainly determined by the relief
> > 2) speedflying lines are not orthogonal to on-the-ground mapping -- very 
> > dependent on 

Re: [OSM-talk] Speedflying lines on OSM

2024-04-14 Thread 快乐的老鼠宝宝 via talk
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA512

> 2) speedflying lines are not orthogonal to on-the-ground mapping -- very 
> dependent on hazards like the relief and mapped OSM features such as cable 
> cars, electricity lines, ski-pists ...

> 3) speedflying lines are always observable from the ground and it can be 
> improved by mappers

Firstly, personally, I find these two points very important, as OSM requires 
verifiability, as seen in [reply1-1].

If other mappers on the ground can also confirm the existence of your 
speedflying route (of course, this might require the mapper to have experience 
in speedflying, but among the many mappers worldwide, there are bound to be 
others with the relevant background knowledge),

Then perhaps we can treat it like sports such as golf and skiing. Therefore, I 
am inclined to vote approve it when raise a proposal.

As for other geographical features that serve as important landmarks (such as 
iconic trees), perhaps they can be created within the route's relation?

> 8) speedflying information is unavailable in any free (free as in FOSS) 
> database, and for countries away from the Alps it is hard to find even 
> private maps

Because the technology of OSM is FOSS (Free and Open Source Software), we are 
able to have a very large and rich array of downstream projects. 

In theory, even if you are not allowed to draw those route, you can use OSM's 
tiles as a basemap and maintain a database that only contains speedflying 
routes, using the OSM technology stack (just like OpenGeofiction). 

And since your "OpenSpeedflyingMap" would only contain data on flying routes, 
it would be quite simple to render an overlay.

(Of course, this is based on the assumption that your proposal is rejected, but 
even if your addition to OSM is turned down, you could still try to share 
routes in an open knowledge way (I am also looking forward to seeing someone do 
this, even though I am not an extreme sports enthusiast))

[reply1-1] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Verifiability


LaoshuBaby (aka. 快乐的老鼠宝宝)

2024年4月14日 星期日 下午 1:31,Pesho Ivanov  来信:

> Hi OSM contributors,
> 
> As a pilot and a contributor to FOSS, I want to contribute available 
> speedflying lines to OSM for the good of the pilots and everyone who 
> potentially intersects with them on the ground (skiers, property owners, 
> forest rangers, etc.). Following the aviation recommendations [2], I first 
> want to first discuss this idea with the OSM community.
> 
> Speedflying is a type of paragliding which is mostly about proximity flying 
> (very low over the ground) or even speedriding (simultaneous skiing and 
> flying). In order to share information between each other, pilots are 
> plotting speedflying lines over maps (see [1] for an aggregation of lines 
> which the authors agree on importing to OSM).
> 
> The Aviation recommendations in OSM [2] mostly ban airspace information in 
> OSM and I agree with this premise — since aviation information is mostly 
> independent from Earth mapping and use. Nevertheless, unlike aviation, 
> speedflying is a sport of flying short downward lines, staying zero to tens 
> of meters/feet above ground, which makes the whole sport primarily dictated 
> by the relief and what sticks out of it (incl. buildings, ski slopes, cable 
> cars, electricity lines, etc). This makes speedflying lines very different 
> from any aviation routes, and rather resemble climbing routes in OSM [3].
> 
> Next, I want to argument my opinion that speedflying lines belong to OSM by 
> commenting on all the rational points in the Aviation wiki page [2]:
> 1) speedflying lines often coincide with existing features, like a river, 
> ridge, valley. speedflying routes are mainly determined by the relief
> 2) speedflying lines are not orthogonal to on-the-ground mapping -- very 
> dependent on hazards like the relief and mapped OSM features such as cable 
> cars, electricity lines, ski-pists (mostly forbidden to speedride or land on 
> them), forests, protected areas (often forbidden to fly over), and also 
> reusing takeoffs and landings appearing on OSM [4]; speedflying lines are 
> mostly independent of other aviation
> 3) speedflying lines are always observable from the ground and it can be 
> improved by mappers
> 4) speedflying routes are generally not governed by authorities and the 
> available maps are spread among private self-made google maps (owned by 
> speedflyers all of whom I asked, were very passionate about importing to OSM 
> since they stop maintaining them)
> 5) speedflying lines are generally short and in the mountains so they rarely 
> intersect something when plotted on 2D (mostly with a ski-pist or a cable car)
> 6) speedflying lines are of significance for skiers who may share or neighbor 
> takeoffs, landings or offpist ski-riding, as well as of interest of property 
> owners of nearby huts, restaurants, rangers, etc.
> 7) speedflying is fastly growing in popularity, there are