[OSM-talk] Newbie - questions I didn't find definate answers in the wiki or list archives
I didn't find a newbie list so I've been reading the wiki and this list for the last week. I've been working on streets in and around Wichita and Newton, Kansas for the last week, it seems there has been little done since the tiger data import, as most freeway(motorway) intersections also connect directly to the crossing street. I've been disconnecting and making sure that the entrance and exit ramps match the yahoo image. and adding bridges to the appropriate way. But before I do to much damage it would be nice if someone could give me "constructive criticism" if and what I am missing and if I am doing things correctly. see this area http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=37.6777&lon=-97.3922&zoom=14&layers=B000FTF and http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=38.0556&lon=-97.3127&zoom=14&layers=B000FTF I haven't even started describing lanes etc. You current discussion of lanes on bridges is very interesting and I am assuming some of it also pertains to lanes in a city setting. also - more questions about roads in a rural setting. we have dirt and/or sand or gravel roads every mile - I think I'll put surface=unpaved and surface=dirt, is there a preferred way to designate , like the UPS and Fedex men have maps, of which roads are not passable when wet? then about about every 5 - 10 miles there will be a county road that is very rough pavement and between towns or out to the state or US highways there will be a better paved road, then the US or state highway will lead out to the interstate freeway so help me make sure I understand these levels interstate freeway = motorway US highway = primary state highway = secondary good county highway = terterary or county highway = residential surface=paved smoothness=good poor county highway = residential surface=paved smoothness=bad graveled & sand road highway= track? surface=unpaved dirt road = highway= track? surface=dirt if it is not passable when wet is there something else to add or will surface=dirt be the key then of course once in a while there are roads that have signs "minimum maintenance" they aren't even good for bicycle travel - tractors and 4wheel drives are all that go there. nearing a destination you might want a gps device to use the county highways in a route but certainly not route thru them unless you had to use them to get to a particular stop. and the gravel or dirt roads you'd want to not route at all unless there was no other way to get to that stop - ie the stop was not on a paved road. Is there something that would key that. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Newbie - questions I didn't find definate answers in the wiki or list archives
On Sun, Sep 20, 2009 at 3:27 PM, Timothy C Litwiller wrote: > I didn't find a newbie list so I've been reading the wiki and this list > for the last week. Welcome, Tim. http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/newbies ;-) I don't know how busy that list is, so I signed up too. > I've been working on streets in and around Wichita and Newton, Kansas > for the last week, it seems there has been little done since the tiger > data import, as most freeway(motorway) intersections also connect > directly to the crossing street. I've been disconnecting and making sure > that the entrance and exit ramps match the yahoo image. and adding > bridges to the appropriate way. Excellent start. Changing arterial streets to highway=secondary will help give the city some context. Lots of the streets have abbreviated types. OSM wants Road instead of Rd, and Avenue instead of Ave. That's tedious work though. Change them as you touch them, I guess. Add parks and rivers to give the city some warmth. Add points of interest like businesses to get other locals interested in helping. > But before I do to much damage it would be nice if someone could give me > "constructive criticism" if and what I am missing and if I am doing > things correctly. Wow. Okay. > see this area > http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=37.6777&lon=-97.3922&zoom=14&layers=B000FTF > and > http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=38.0556&lon=-97.3127&zoom=14&layers=B000FTF I don't see glaring errors in my quick glance. If I was really picky I'd say this http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/13092530 should have a node intersecting with the railway marked as highway=level_crossing. The node is currently beside the railway. > I haven't even started describing lanes etc. You current discussion of > lanes on bridges is very interesting and I am assuming some of it also > pertains to lanes in a city setting. Consider that thread an arcane discussion of edge cases that will likely not enter your world. You'll see similar threads on other topics. > also - more questions about roads in a rural setting. > > we have dirt and/or sand or gravel roads every mile - I think I'll put > surface=unpaved and surface=dirt, is there a preferred way to designate > , like the UPS and Fedex men have maps, of which roads are not passable > when wet? > then about about every 5 - 10 miles there will be a county road that is > very rough pavement and between towns or out to the state or US highways > there will be a better paved road, then the US or state highway will > lead out to the interstate freeway > > so help me make sure I understand these levels > interstate freeway = motorway > US highway = primary > state highway = secondary > good county highway = terterary > or > county highway = residential surface=paved smoothness=good > poor county highway = residential surface=paved smoothness=bad The exact correlation between tags and legal designation only exists in England. The rest of us have to wing it. See a full discussion here http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/United_States_roads_tagging Use the wiki for guidance, use your judgment to adapt for local conditions. Tag more carefully when changing the work of another editor than when changing the work of a robot (or adding new material). > graveled & sand road highway= track? surface=unpaved > dirt road = highway= track? surface=dirt Sure. > if it is not passable when wet is there something else to add or will > surface=dirt be the key > then of course once in a while there are roads that have signs "minimum > maintenance" they aren't even good for bicycle travel - tractors and > 4wheel drives are all that go there. Take your best guess. Signed "minimum maintenance" sounds like it needs to get tagged. I'm not sure how. > nearing a destination you might want a gps device to use the county > highways in a route but certainly not route thru them unless you had to > use them to get to a particular stop. and the gravel or dirt roads you'd > want to not route at all unless there was no other way to get to that > stop - ie the stop was not on a paved road. Is there something that > would key that. That is up to the routing engines. Tag what you can see and others can verify. Highway= is a good start. Surface= adds some important cues. One man's "bad route for travel" may be another man's "scenic drive", so creating access=destination where no legal restriction exists seems mean. Welcome to OSM. Looks like you are already having fun. ;-) Best regards, Richard ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Newbie - questions I didn't find definate answers in the wiki or list archives
On Mon, 21 Sep 2009, Timothy C Litwiller wrote: > also - more questions about roads in a rural setting. > > we have dirt and/or sand or gravel roads every mile - I think I'll put > surface=unpaved and surface=dirt, is there a preferred way to designate > , like the UPS and Fedex men have maps, of which roads are not passable > when wet? The tag for "impassable when wet" is not yet decided with there being two distinct concepts out "a wet season closure of roads" http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Dry_weather and intermittent random closure http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Dry_Weather_Road choose something like this for now ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Newbie - questions I didn't find definate answers in the wiki or list archives
On 9/20/2009 3:52 PM, Richard Weait wrote: > On Sun, Sep 20, 2009 at 3:27 PM, Timothy C Litwiller > wrote: > >> I didn't find a newbie list so I've been reading the wiki and this list >> for the last week. >> > Welcome, Tim. > > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/newbies > ;-) > > I don't know how busy that list is, so I signed up too. > > Thanks - I don't know how I missed that. >> I've been working on streets in and around Wichita and Newton, Kansas >> for the last week, it seems there has been little done since the tiger >> data import, as most freeway(motorway) intersections also connect >> directly to the crossing street. I've been disconnecting and making sure >> that the entrance and exit ramps match the yahoo image. and adding >> bridges to the appropriate way. >> > Excellent start. Changing arterial streets to highway=secondary will > help give the city some context. > Lots of the streets have abbreviated types. OSM wants Road instead of > Rd, and Avenue instead of Ave. That's tedious work though. Change > them as you touch them, I guess. > > Add parks and rivers to give the city some warmth. Add points of > interest like businesses to get other locals interested in helping. > > >> But before I do to much damage it would be nice if someone could give me >> "constructive criticism" if and what I am missing and if I am doing >> things correctly. >> > Wow. Okay. > > >> see this area >> http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=37.6777&lon=-97.3922&zoom=14&layers=B000FTF >> and >> http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=38.0556&lon=-97.3127&zoom=14&layers=B000FTF >> > I don't see glaring errors in my quick glance. If I was really picky > I'd say this > > http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/13092530 > > should have a node intersecting with the railway marked as > highway=level_crossing. The node is currently beside the railway. > > >> I haven't even started describing lanes etc. You current discussion of >> lanes on bridges is very interesting and I am assuming some of it also >> pertains to lanes in a city setting. >> > Consider that thread an arcane discussion of edge cases that will > likely not enter your world. You'll see similar threads on other > topics. > > >> also - more questions about roads in a rural setting. >> >> we have dirt and/or sand or gravel roads every mile - I think I'll put >> surface=unpaved and surface=dirt, is there a preferred way to designate >> , like the UPS and Fedex men have maps, of which roads are not passable >> when wet? >> then about about every 5 - 10 miles there will be a county road that is >> very rough pavement and between towns or out to the state or US highways >> there will be a better paved road, then the US or state highway will >> lead out to the interstate freeway >> >> so help me make sure I understand these levels >> interstate freeway = motorway >> US highway = primary >> state highway = secondary >> good county highway = terterary >> or >> county highway = residential surface=paved smoothness=good >> poor county highway = residential surface=paved smoothness=bad >> > The exact correlation between tags and legal designation only exists > in England. The rest of us have to wing it. > See a full discussion here > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/United_States_roads_tagging > > Use the wiki for guidance, use your judgment to adapt for local > conditions. Tag more carefully when changing the work of another > editor than when changing the work of a robot (or adding new > material). > > >> graveled& sand road highway= track? surface=unpaved >> dirt road = highway= track? surface=dirt >> > Sure. > > >> if it is not passable when wet is there something else to add or will >> surface=dirt be the key >> then of course once in a while there are roads that have signs "minimum >> maintenance" they aren't even good for bicycle travel - tractors and >> 4wheel drives are all that go there. >> > Take your best guess. Signed "minimum maintenance" sounds like it > needs to get tagged. I'm not sure how. > > >> nearing a destination you might want a gps device to use the county >> highways in a route but certainly not route thru them unless you had to >> use them to get to a particular stop. and the gravel or dirt roads you'd >> want to not route at all unless there was no other way to get to that >> stop - ie the stop was not on a paved road. Is there something that >> would key that. >> > That is up to the routing engines. Tag what you can see and others > can verify. Highway= is a good start. Surface= adds some important > cues. One man's "bad route for travel" may be another man's "scenic > drive", so creating access=destination where no legal restriction > exists seems mean. > > Welcome to OSM. Looks like you are already having fun. ;-) > > Best regards, > Richard > Thanks, I am ___ talk mailing list ta
Re: [OSM-talk] Newbie - questions I didn't find definate answers in the wiki or list archives
Timothy C Litwiller schrieb: > I didn't find a newbie list http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/newbies > I've been > disconnecting and making sure that the entrance and exit ramps match > the yahoo image. and adding bridges to the appropriate way. Do not rely to much on Yahoo images. Sometimes they are not very accurate geocoded or sometimes out of date, especialy in different zoom levels (eg http://de.maps.yahoo.com/#mvt=s&lat=39.153668&lon=-94.537782&zoom=18 vs. http://de.maps.yahoo.com/#mvt=s&lat=39.153668&lon=-94.537782&zoom=17 ). Of course, if you don't have a better source (like GPS-Traces) Yahoo is better than nothing. > But before I do to much damage it would be nice if someone could give > me "constructive criticism" if and what I am missing and if I am > doing things correctly. see this area > http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=37.6777&lon=-97.3922&zoom=14&layers=B000FTF Just with a quick look: You forgot a few bridges at the intersection of HW 54 and I 235 (the railwaybridge and the bridge over the river of HW 54). Also take care of the layer tag (http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Layer) to describe which way is above / underneath. Also the begin and end of the current bridges doesn't match the Yahoo images. I normaly compare with Google street view and the bird's eye view from http://www.bing.com/maps/ if unsure where objects start or end. > and > http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=38.0556&lon=-97.3127&zoom=14&layers=B000FTF Notice that railway nodes are not connected to highways nodes even if it looks like they have a common node. > we have dirt and/or sand or gravel roads every mile - I think I'll > put surface=unpaved and surface=dirt, is there a preferred way to > designate , like the UPS and Fedex men have maps, of which roads are > not passable when wet? Giving an information about the surface is not a bad idear. Esp. if you live in an area where you can't assume that a residential highway will always be paved and have boardwalks on every side. Unfortunately we don't have a tag describing the way atdifferent weather conditions. People living in areas where dry riverbeads are used as roads except in rainy season when it should be tagged as a river... :) > so help me make sure I understand these levels ... Have a look at http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/United_States_roads_tagging There is a discussion at the moment (or better since openstreetmap comes more popular) if we should tag highways according to their official classification or their physical charakteristics. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Newbie - questions I didn't find definate answers in the wiki or list archives
> I've been working on streets in and around Wichita and Newton, Kansas > for the last week, it seems there has been little done since the tiger > data import, as most freeway(motorway) intersections also connect > directly to the crossing street. I've been disconnecting and making sure > that the entrance and exit ramps match the yahoo image. and adding > bridges to the appropriate way. That's a great group of items to work on. Here's a list of things to direct as you start fixing the freeways: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Interstate_Highways ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Newbie - questions I didn't find definate answers in the wiki or list archives
Thanks everyone - I've learned some new things and I've found and joined the newbie list also now. It looks like I'll have plenty of local fixes to work on for a long time without even importing gps traces. There are a few places tho where I have gps traces of new street but I wanted to get accustomed to what was supposed to be entered on such streets before I put in a bunch of new streets of new subdivisions. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Newbie - questions I didn't find definate answers in the wiki or list archives
On 20 Sep 2009, at 20:27, Timothy C Litwiller wrote: county highway = residential surface=paved smoothness=good poor county highway = residential surface=paved smoothness=bad Please don't use smoothness=* as it is not a descriptive tag. Shaun smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Newbie - questions I didn't find definate answers in the wiki or list archives
On Sun, 20 Sep 2009, Richard Weait wrote: > Excellent start. Changing arterial streets to highway=secondary will > help give the city some context. I prefer marking arterials as highway=tertiary. There are exceptions, of course. Some arterials are part of highways connecting cities. No point in demoting the way just because the state took it's number off when it turned maintenance over to a city or county. -- - Joseph Scanlan +1-702-455-3679 http://www.n7xsd.us/ j...@co.clark.nv.us (work) (not work) n7...@arrl.net - So he went inside there to take on what he found. But he never escaped them, for who can escape what he desires? --Tony Banks of Genesis in "The Lady Lies" ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Newbie - questions I didn't find definate answers in the wiki or list archives
On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 10:05 AM, Joseph Scanlan wrote: > On Sun, 20 Sep 2009, Richard Weait wrote: > >> Excellent start. Changing arterial streets to highway=secondary will >> help give the city some context. > > I prefer marking arterials as highway=tertiary. There are exceptions, of > course. Some arterials are part of highways connecting cities. No point in > demoting the way just because the state took it's number off when it turned > maintenance over to a city or county. Sorry, Joseph, I was talking about suburban arterials, which I prefer as secondary. I use tertiary to distinguish the preferred route into and out of the subdivision. Often these are wider or have turn lanes and or traffic signals to aid access to the intersecting secondary road. I sometimes use tertiary as arterial roads in rural areas as you suggest. Best regards. Richard ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Newbie - questions I didn't find definate answers in the wiki or list archives
On Mon, 21 Sep 2009, Richard Weait wrote: > Sorry, Joseph, I was talking about suburban arterials, which I prefer > as secondary. I use tertiary to distinguish the preferred route into > and out of the subdivision. Often these are wider or have turn lanes > and or traffic signals to aid access to the intersecting secondary > road. We're both talking about suburban arterials (or at least as suburban as Las Vegas gets). We just disagree on when they should be tertiary. I prefer to tag collectors as residential (or unclassified, if appropriate). I'm expecting the routing software to get people in and out of subdivision without marked collectors once we have all the traffic lights and turn restrictions in the map. Frankly it doesn't matter which, if either, philosophy Timothy adopts. I'm confident he'll make great improvements to the map. -- - Joseph Scanlan +1-702-455-3679 http://www.n7xsd.us/ j...@co.clark.nv.us (work) (not work) n7...@arrl.net - So he went inside there to take on what he found. But he never escaped them, for who can escape what he desires? --Tony Banks of Genesis in "The Lady Lies" ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
