Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetMap Carto v2.33.0 release
Richard -- I filed a bug for this, there was some discussion, and I closed it: https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues/1754 Feel free to reopen if you think this needs more discussion. The consensus seemed to be that lakes within forests should be tagged as inner of the forest multipolygon. Martijn Martijn van Exel skype: mvexel On Mon, Aug 17, 2015 at 8:39 AM, Richard ricoz@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Aug 14, 2015 at 07:27:11PM -0700, Paul Norman wrote: This email is also in user diary form at osm.org/user/pnorman/diary/35589 where issue numbers are linked. OpenStreetMap Carto 2.33.0 has been released. This release focuses on cartographic style improvements, but the release notes also include 2.32.0. The biggest changes are - A randomized symbology for forests for natural=wood and landuse=forest #1728 #1242 ok, now I see those trees across some lakes and parking lots. http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/279637976 http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/125058043 presumably those could be mapped better but it did not happen previously and also seems to work with other renderers without this glitch Should I file bugs? Richard ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetMap Carto v2.33.0 release
On Fri, Aug 14, 2015 at 07:27:11PM -0700, Paul Norman wrote: This email is also in user diary form at osm.org/user/pnorman/diary/35589 where issue numbers are linked. OpenStreetMap Carto 2.33.0 has been released. This release focuses on cartographic style improvements, but the release notes also include 2.32.0. The biggest changes are - A randomized symbology for forests for natural=wood and landuse=forest #1728 #1242 ok, now I see those trees across some lakes and parking lots. http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/279637976 http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/125058043 presumably those could be mapped better but it did not happen previously and also seems to work with other renderers without this glitch Should I file bugs? Richard ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetMap Carto v2.33.0 release
Op 17 aug. 2015, om 16:48 heeft Martijn van Exel m...@rtijn.org het volgende geschreven: Richard -- I filed a bug for this, there was some discussion, and I closed it: https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues/1754 https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues/1754 Feel free to reopen if you think this needs more discussion. The consensus seemed to be that lakes within forests should be tagged as inner of the forest multipolygon. But in this situation: http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=13/38.1061/-2.7978 http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=13/38.1061/-2.7978 We have an island within a lake and it does not get rendered either, despite the fact that the island is the inner of the multi. I opened a new issue for that. Marc. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetMap Carto v2.33.0 release
On 15/08/15 23:04, Paul Norman wrote: 17 117 occurences is not 'not in the database'. No, a key not in https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/blob/master/openstreetmap-carto.style is not in the database. landcover is not in that list, so is not in the database. The data is in the database ... The difference is that the view of that data extracted currently by openstreetmap-carto.style simple excludes them. This is the same mechanism by which a view of the data can also be filtered to omit or include data for a particular time frame, or which has been expired via a stop_date ... -- Lester Caine - G8HFL - Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/ Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk Rainbow Digital Media - http://rainbowdigitalmedia.co.uk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetMap Carto v2.33.0 release
On 8/15/2015 1:15 PM, Ruben Maes wrote: 17 117 occurences is not 'not in the database'. No, a key not in https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/blob/master/openstreetmap-carto.style is not in the database. landcover is not in that list, so is not in the database. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetMap Carto v2.33.0 release
On 15 August 2015 14:16:06 GMT+01:00, Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: IMHO it would rather encourage mappers to make more sense out of these than it is now. I'm myself adding a pointless landuse=forest for every landcover=trees now (for the renderer), and I guess most other mappers do the same. I will remove them from non-forests as soon as the landcover tag becomes visible Yes, landcover=trees has the notable advantage of being unambiguous, because it only conveys one concept. The other concepts confusedly conveyed by landuse=forest and natural=wood can/should be handled by other tags (landuse=forestry anyone ? :) ). It'll take years if it happens at all, but getting early support from osmcarto will speed things up. -- Vincent Dp ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetMap Carto v2.33.0 release
sent from a phone Am 15.08.2015 um 13:50 schrieb Christoph Hormann chris_horm...@gmx.de: The question is how much is actually gained from this when landuse=forest and natural=wood are practically identical anyway and mean the same, namely 'this area is densely covered by trees'. Rendering landcover=trees as well would just further fragment tagging. IMHO it would rather encourage mappers to make more sense out of these than it is now. I'm myself adding a pointless landuse=forest for every landcover=trees now (for the renderer), and I guess most other mappers do the same. I will remove them from non-forests as soon as the landcover tag becomes visible ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetMap Carto v2.33.0 release
To clarify, I'm not advocating the use of landcover=* tag (I'm on the fence). However I've never liked that fact that an attribute of tree areas (managed) was differentiated with primary key tags instead of sub-tags such as: landuse/landcover=wood/trees managed=yes/no landcover=trees is already in use so it wont really fragment it further. The unifying of the render doesn't reduce fragmentation either, it just papers over the cracks in tagging inconsistencies. This new rendering, which I support in principle, should not negate the need to sort out these inconsistencies, even if is millions of entities. Cheers Dave F. On 15/08/2015 12:50, Christoph Hormann wrote: The question is how much is actually gained from this when landuse=forest and natural=wood are practically identical anyway and mean the same, namely 'this area is densely covered by trees'. Rendering landcover=trees as well would just further fragment tagging. The suggestion of using landcover=trees is generally based on the idea that both landuse=forest and natural=wood have a distinct meaning and there are tree covered areas which are neither of these. But in reality this is not the case and due to the widespread use of these tags it is likely this will never happen, it would require a systematic re-assessment of millions of features. --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetMap Carto v2.33.0 release
Hi Does the combined wood/forest update include landcover=trees? If not it needs to be included all three should render the same (IMO). Cheers Dave F. On 15/08/2015 03:27, Paul Norman wrote: This email is also in user diary form at osm.org/user/pnorman/diary/35589 where issue numbers are linked. OpenStreetMap Carto 2.33.0 has been released. This release focuses on cartographic style improvements, but the release notes also include 2.32.0. The biggest changes are - A randomized symbology for forests for natural=wood and landuse=forest #1728 #1242 A long time in the works, this improvement has finally landed. The two tags were merged - they are indistinguishable to the data consumer.[1] A randomized symbology was first suggested by SK53[2] at SOTM-EU 2014, and this feature would not have happened without his extensive research, or imagico's tools for creating an irregular but uniformly distributed and periodic dot pattern[3] - Rendering minor roads and service rail later for mid-zoom clarity #1682 #1692 #1676 #1647 As all residential, unclassified, and service roads in a city became mapped the rendered view became over-crowded, bloblike, and difficult to read. - Unification of footway/path and rendering surface of them The mess that is highway=path is well-known[4], and it is necessary to do some kind of processing as a data consumer. A distinction is now made between paved and unpaved footways. - Rendering of Antartic ice sheets from shapefiles #1540 Ice sheets in Antartica are a bit of a special case, and pre-generated shapefiles are now used - Mapnik 3 preperations #1579 The style is not yet fullly tested with Mapnik 3 and we don't claim to support it, but several bugs were fixed. Most of the work was done on the Mapnik side - No longer rendering proposed roads #1663 #1654 - Power area colour adjusted #1680 - Better place label order #1689 - meadow/grassland and orchard/vineyard color unification #1655 - Render educational area borders later #1662 - New POI icons A full list of changes can be found on Github at https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/compare/v2.31.0...v2.33.0) [1]: https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues/647#issuecomment-52816195 [2]: http://sk53-osm.blogspot.ca/2014/09/woodland-cartography.html [3]: http://www.imagico.de/map/jsdotpattern.php [4]: http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Richard/diary/20333 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetMap Carto v2.33.0 release
The woodland change looks much better, but would it not be possible to render broadleaved, needleleaved and mixed using different tree images, as seen on other maps? This would, I think, give people more incentive to add this information when mapping woodland. Regards Tony On 15 August 2015 at 04:27, Paul Norman penor...@mac.com wrote: This email is also in user diary form at osm.org/user/pnorman/diary/35589 where issue numbers are linked. OpenStreetMap Carto 2.33.0 has been released. This release focuses on cartographic style improvements, but the release notes also include 2.32.0. The biggest changes are - A randomized symbology for forests for natural=wood and landuse=forest #1728 #1242 A long time in the works, this improvement has finally landed. The two tags were merged - they are indistinguishable to the data consumer.[1] A randomized symbology was first suggested by SK53[2] at SOTM-EU 2014, and this feature would not have happened without his extensive research, or imagico's tools for creating an irregular but uniformly distributed and periodic dot pattern[3] - Rendering minor roads and service rail later for mid-zoom clarity #1682 #1692 #1676 #1647 As all residential, unclassified, and service roads in a city became mapped the rendered view became over-crowded, bloblike, and difficult to read. - Unification of footway/path and rendering surface of them The mess that is highway=path is well-known[4], and it is necessary to do some kind of processing as a data consumer. A distinction is now made between paved and unpaved footways. - Rendering of Antartic ice sheets from shapefiles #1540 Ice sheets in Antartica are a bit of a special case, and pre-generated shapefiles are now used - Mapnik 3 preperations #1579 The style is not yet fullly tested with Mapnik 3 and we don't claim to support it, but several bugs were fixed. Most of the work was done on the Mapnik side - No longer rendering proposed roads #1663 #1654 - Power area colour adjusted #1680 - Better place label order #1689 - meadow/grassland and orchard/vineyard color unification #1655 - Render educational area borders later #1662 - New POI icons A full list of changes can be found on Github at https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/compare/v2.31.0...v2.33.0) [1]: https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues/647#issuecomment-52816195 [2]: http://sk53-osm.blogspot.ca/2014/09/woodland-cartography.html [3]: http://www.imagico.de/map/jsdotpattern.php [4]: http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Richard/diary/20333 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetMap Carto v2.33.0 release
I'm on the fence about this. Does the 'general purpose' mapnik rendering need such distinctions? Would the vast majority of end users really care. Could it even make it more confusing for them? Cheers Dave F. On 15/08/2015 12:45, tony wroblewski wrote: The woodland change looks much better, but would it not be possible to render broadleaved, needleleaved and mixed using different tree images, as seen on other maps? This would, I think, give people more incentive to add this information when mapping woodland. Regards Tony --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetMap Carto v2.33.0 release
On Saturday 15 August 2015, Dave F. wrote: Hi Does the combined wood/forest update include landcover=trees? If not it needs to be included all three should render the same (IMO). The question is how much is actually gained from this when landuse=forest and natural=wood are practically identical anyway and mean the same, namely 'this area is densely covered by trees'. Rendering landcover=trees as well would just further fragment tagging. The suggestion of using landcover=trees is generally based on the idea that both landuse=forest and natural=wood have a distinct meaning and there are tree covered areas which are neither of these. But in reality this is not the case and due to the widespread use of these tags it is likely this will never happen, it would require a systematic re-assessment of millions of features. -- Christoph Hormann http://www.imagico.de/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetMap Carto v2.33.0 release
On 8/15/2015 4:45 AM, tony wroblewski wrote: The woodland change looks much better, but would it not be possible to render broadleaved, needleleaved and mixed using different tree images, as seen on other maps? Not at the moment. See https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues/822 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetMap Carto v2.33.0 release
On 8/15/2015 4:26 AM, Dave F. wrote: Hi Does the combined wood/forest update include landcover=trees? If not it needs to be included all three should render the same (IMO). No. Nor are there any issues created about rendering landcover=trees. As the landcover key is currently not in the database, it is not happening in the short-term either. For clarity, this is not to imply that we will or will not render landcover=trees. As there's no issue about it, it hasn't been discussed. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetMap Carto v2.33.0 release
Saturday 15 August 2015 12:59:55, Paul Norman: On 8/15/2015 4:26 AM, Dave F. wrote: Hi Does the combined wood/forest update include landcover=trees? If not it needs to be included all three should render the same (IMO). No. Nor are there any issues created about rendering landcover=trees. As the landcover key is currently not in the database, it is not happening in the short-term either. https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/landcover 17 117 occurences is not 'not in the database'. Sure, it's only 0.12% of all landuses, but this is a key that isn't even rendered on the default style. For clarity, this is not to imply that we will or will not render landcover=trees. As there's no issue about it, it hasn't been discussed. -- The field from of an email is about as reliable as the address written on the back of an envelope. Use OpenPGP to verify that this message is sent by me. You can find my public key in the public directories, like pool.sks-keyservers.net. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetMap Carto v2.33.0 release
Please, remember to change the subject when the subject shift occurs... W dniu 15.08.2015 22:15, Ruben Maes napisał(a): 17 117 occurences is not 'not in the database'. Sure, it's only 0.12% of all landuses, but this is a key that isn't even rendered on the default style. Paul was talking about the database which is available to default installation of osm-carto. We plan to update its scheme one day, because many different issues depend on this, but currently it's just a work in progress: https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues/1504 https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues/1286 -- The train is always on time / The trick is to be ready to put your bags down [A. Cohen] ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] OpenStreetMap Carto v2.33.0 release
This email is also in user diary form at osm.org/user/pnorman/diary/35589 where issue numbers are linked. OpenStreetMap Carto 2.33.0 has been released. This release focuses on cartographic style improvements, but the release notes also include 2.32.0. The biggest changes are - A randomized symbology for forests for natural=wood and landuse=forest #1728 #1242 A long time in the works, this improvement has finally landed. The two tags were merged - they are indistinguishable to the data consumer.[1] A randomized symbology was first suggested by SK53[2] at SOTM-EU 2014, and this feature would not have happened without his extensive research, or imagico's tools for creating an irregular but uniformly distributed and periodic dot pattern[3] - Rendering minor roads and service rail later for mid-zoom clarity #1682 #1692 #1676 #1647 As all residential, unclassified, and service roads in a city became mapped the rendered view became over-crowded, bloblike, and difficult to read. - Unification of footway/path and rendering surface of them The mess that is highway=path is well-known[4], and it is necessary to do some kind of processing as a data consumer. A distinction is now made between paved and unpaved footways. - Rendering of Antartic ice sheets from shapefiles #1540 Ice sheets in Antartica are a bit of a special case, and pre-generated shapefiles are now used - Mapnik 3 preperations #1579 The style is not yet fullly tested with Mapnik 3 and we don't claim to support it, but several bugs were fixed. Most of the work was done on the Mapnik side - No longer rendering proposed roads #1663 #1654 - Power area colour adjusted #1680 - Better place label order #1689 - meadow/grassland and orchard/vineyard color unification #1655 - Render educational area borders later #1662 - New POI icons A full list of changes can be found on Github at https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/compare/v2.31.0...v2.33.0) [1]: https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues/647#issuecomment-52816195 [2]: http://sk53-osm.blogspot.ca/2014/09/woodland-cartography.html [3]: http://www.imagico.de/map/jsdotpattern.php [4]: http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Richard/diary/20333 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetMap Carto v2.33.0 release
On 8/14/2015 7:27 PM, Paul Norman wrote: This email is also in user diary form at osm.org/user/pnorman/diary/35589 where issue numbers are linked. I forgot to mention in the earlier message, please file any bug reports at https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
