Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetMap GPS Points Map
Well, I'm not an expert, but as when you upload a GPX track it gives you 4 options for visibility for each track, then that choice is effectively the extent of how you licence that individual track for use by anyone (as well as whatever licence the full database of points is released under). If you don't want your gpx files to be available to other mappers, don't upload them. If you've changed your mind then delete them. Ed ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetMap GPS Points Map
On 12/09/2012 05:51, Nick Hocking wrote: mike wrote I have been wondering what the license is on the gps points? That's a good question. I certainly will not be uploading any new GPS track logs until my GPS contributiuons are under the same single license (ODbL) as my other contributions Mike, Nick, We discussed this at the July 24th LWG meeting and made a formal statement: https://docs.google.com/document/pub?id=1cHyaSBGT3493IvpJmnsAGZeIYeSBY-QieQwdOkh3wXw Item 5 As you can see, we find it very hard to see any creative value that CC-BY-SA can protect and so far have simply advised folks that do not want their traces to be used to remove them. I have now had a further discussion today. What we will now do is this: A full archive of all the publicly visible trace files up to today has not yet been made. This will be done and published under CC-BY-SA at http://planet.openstreetmap.org/gps/ or similar. Once done, (I hesitate to put any technical volunteer on the spot by saying when), we will then remove all traces by non-continuing contributors. If anyone is looking for a definitive point in time when the distribution is absolutely ODbL, this would be it. By the way, *and this is a purely personal aside*, I feel that GPX traces are an ideal area where it is both technically feasible and not too strategically important to experiment with multiple licensing if the community wishes. We could then re-publish CC-BY-SA tracks for individual download but not integrate them into editor views. Mike ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetMap GPS Points Map
On 10.09.2012 21:25, Ilya Zverev wrote: I asked around for some feedback, but no one was interested in that plugin. Did you announce it anywhere? I haven't heard about such plugin. I certainly asked in Munich at our regulars table and some mappers I personally know from Thailand. You can give it a try If you like: get the plugin here: http://downloads.osm-tools.org/GPSBulkLoad/ Usage: Select File/Bulk load GPS Then the familiar Area selector opens. Tick Raw GPS data and select your area of interest. I recommend starting with a smaller area and then get gradually bigger as you get used to the amount of data loaded. The demo contains data in this area: sqlite select min(lat),max(lat),min(lon),max(lon) from GPS; 5610|204099980|973001964|1095999830 While loading is already quite fast, it does not yet accumulate the data but loops and does single queries. If you request huge areas with sparse points the waiting time for the connections can get longer than the transfer, depending on internet speed. Final version would accumulate the data. Also caching not yet activated ;) It's a simple prototype to see how it would feel to get just the anonymous GPS points without speed information (lack of timestamp and track). For some areas it's useful. In Thailand we got a bigger GPS donation from some motorbike forum, so it can happen that there are GPS tracks without any OSM data around. Virgin territory awaits you :) Also be aware that JOSM is getting a bit slower after the first million of GPS points loaded. With the final plugin this would be no problem as the data is cached, so no need to keep the layer loaded too long, just reload when it's needed. Stephan ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetMap GPS Points Map
I have been wondering what the license is on the gps points? is it affected
by the change?
mike
On Mon, Sep 10, 2012 at 11:33 AM, Ilya Zverev zve...@textual.ru wrote:
Hi!
As you know, almost half a year ago a GPX Planet was released (
http://blog.osmfoundation.**org/2012/04/01/bulk-gps-point-**data/http://blog.osmfoundation.org/2012/04/01/bulk-gps-point-data/).
At the time I expressed a hope that someone would process that file, making
tile layer and regional extracts. Alas, in those months the file has only
been statistically analyzed (thanks to Pascal Neis and Steven Kay), but no
practical use for that array of data has been found. Well, as they say, OSM
is do-ocracy: if you want something, the only way to get it is to do it
yourself. So, after several weeks of coding and impatiently waiting for
processing to finish, I present to you:
1) A tile layer of GPS points for the whole world down to zoom 11:
http://zverik.osm.rambler.ru/**gps/ http://zverik.osm.rambler.ru/gps/
2) Regional extracts, so you won't have to wait several hours cutting your
country out of the planet dump: http://zverik.osm.rambler.ru/**
gps/files/extracts/ http://zverik.osm.rambler.ru/gps/files/extracts/
3) All tools that were used to build that map and those extracts:
http://svn.openstreetmap.org/**applications/utils/gps-tracks/**
gpxplanet_tools/http://svn.openstreetmap.org/applications/utils/gps-tracks/gpxplanet_tools/
4) A nice poster with GPS points, some statistics and interesting facts:
http://zverik.osm.rambler.ru/**gps/files/world-gps-points-**
120604-2048.pnghttp://zverik.osm.rambler.ru/gps/files/world-gps-points-120604-2048.png
What are uses of this? By this time I found two:
a) Now you can adjust your trip plans to collect GPS tracks where there
are none in OpenStreetMap database. Sorry, Germany, it's almost impossible
in your country. But I was surprised to find some untrodden secondary and
even primary roads in hilly regions not far from my city.
b) The redaction bot has removed not only whole objects, but a lot of
nodes from inside highways. Overlaying the OSM layer with GPS points map
makes it very clear where a road deviates from GPS tracks, because the bot
ate some of its nodes, or because it was straightened by road workers, and
the mapper who updated it didn't bother to upload a fresh track.
And since the GPS tile layer is useful for restoring the road network,
I've made tiles up to zoom 15 for Poland, with green dots for using in
JOSM. Just add tms[15]:http://zverik.osm.**rambler.ru/gps/poland/{zoom}/{*
*x}/{y}.pnghttp://zverik.osm.rambler.ru/gps/poland/%7Bzoom%7D/%7Bx%7D/%7By%7D.pngas
a TMS layer, and you're good.
I hope to see more uses to the GPX Planet, and to see it updated more
often. Also, I'd like to remind Ian and Grant about their unfinished tool:
https://github.com/iandees/**planet-gpx-dump/https://github.com/iandees/planet-gpx-dump/;)
Thanks,
IZ
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Member of Free Libre Open Source Software Kosova http://flossk.org
http://flossk.orgSaving wikipedia(tm) articles from deletion
http://SpeedyDeletion.wikia.com
Contributor FOSM, the CC-BY-SA map of the world http://fosm.org
Mozilla Rep https://reps.mozilla.org/u/h4ck3rm1k3
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Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetMap GPS Points Map
mike wrote I have been wondering what the license is on the gps points? That's a good question. I certainly will not be uploading any new GPS track logs until my GPS contributiuons are under the same single license (ODbL) as my other contributions. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetMap GPS Points Map
Mike Dupont писал 2012-09-12 00:56: I have been wondering what the license is on the gps points? is it affected by the change? For a long time I though that all GPX traces are in public domain. There was no user agreement signed, no clauses in CT concerning GPX traces, and with anonymization means it is impossible to impose -BY licenses on them. Also, there is a case of factual data, and the traces are obviously factual: they state where the GPS device was at specific time. That excludes, of course, imports done in GPX format, like this: http://zverik.osm.rambler.ru/gps/?zoom=11lat=8.81003lon=-74.13096layers=BT (thanks to AndrewBuck for the find). But I consider that uploading such fabricated traces should be prohibited, with immediate removing of anything that looks suspicious, because it almost always breaches the license terms, regardless of actual license. But in http://blog.osmfoundation.org/2012/04/01/bulk-gps-point-data/ it is clearly stated that the array of GPS points published on planes.osm.org/gps is release under CC-BY-SA license. Since we're changing (have already changed) our license to ODbL, we know that CC-BY-SA does not work. But nevertheless we have to respect it, so all extracts and all tiles made from the GPS points dumps should be published at least under CC-BY-SA license. This is the case for data on the http://zverik.osm.rambler.ru site. Now, after the recent announcement http://blog.osmfoundation.org/2012/09/11/change-to-odbl-imminent/, it is stated that API transactions ... will consist of ODbL-licensed OpenStreetMap data. It is debatable whether GPX responses are actually OpenStreetMap data, but I presume the intention was that everything coming out of our API is now ODbL licensed, including GPX traces. That does not mean the license for older data, such as the data on zverik.osm.rambler.ru is changed, but the chance is, when the next GPS points dump will be made, its license most probably be ODbL. Finally, that brings up the question, whether the traces uploaded by decliners or non-agreers were removed from the database. As far as I know, they haven't. But since those people didn't agree on relicensing all their OpenStreetMap data under different license, that means either that GPX traces are not considered OSM data, or that traces were never restricted by -BY clause in the first place (let alone -SA). And this gives up a possibility to be generous this time and release the GPX database under more permissive, non-copyleft license, such as CC0 or WTFPL. All in all, this whole question depends on whether an individual GPX trace is factual data, and how the OSMF would treat the database of such traces, the license for which can, and should be independent from individual traces licenses (an example of which being ODbL vs DbCL or postal codes databases). I get the impression this hasn't been given much thought from LWG, because OSM data is considered far more important. But having the license change process for OSM data finished, I guess it is the time to make a decision for less important part of our database, which is the largest collection of Open Data GPS points published. Are we confident enough in our map data to let others use this collection for no return? Or should we protect it as much as our map data? It is clear we don't consider GPX data on par with OSM data, but since I have just reminded everybody that it exists, does it mean everyone would start protecting it as vigorously? My opinion is that as an Open project we should try to make all our data as free and as open as possible -- CC0 being the ideal. And the GPX data is a perfect candidate to start with. But this is for you and for LWG to decide. IZ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] OpenStreetMap GPS Points Map
Hi!
As you know, almost half a year ago a GPX Planet was released
(http://blog.osmfoundation.org/2012/04/01/bulk-gps-point-data/). At the
time I expressed a hope that someone would process that file, making
tile layer and regional extracts. Alas, in those months the file has
only been statistically analyzed (thanks to Pascal Neis and Steven Kay),
but no practical use for that array of data has been found. Well, as
they say, OSM is do-ocracy: if you want something, the only way to get
it is to do it yourself. So, after several weeks of coding and
impatiently waiting for processing to finish, I present to you:
1) A tile layer of GPS points for the whole world down to zoom 11:
http://zverik.osm.rambler.ru/gps/
2) Regional extracts, so you won't have to wait several hours cutting
your country out of the planet dump:
http://zverik.osm.rambler.ru/gps/files/extracts/
3) All tools that were used to build that map and those extracts:
http://svn.openstreetmap.org/applications/utils/gps-tracks/gpxplanet_tools/
4) A nice poster with GPS points, some statistics and interesting
facts:
http://zverik.osm.rambler.ru/gps/files/world-gps-points-120604-2048.png
What are uses of this? By this time I found two:
a) Now you can adjust your trip plans to collect GPS tracks where there
are none in OpenStreetMap database. Sorry, Germany, it's almost
impossible in your country. But I was surprised to find some untrodden
secondary and even primary roads in hilly regions not far from my city.
b) The redaction bot has removed not only whole objects, but a lot of
nodes from inside highways. Overlaying the OSM layer with GPS points map
makes it very clear where a road deviates from GPS tracks, because the
bot ate some of its nodes, or because it was straightened by road
workers, and the mapper who updated it didn't bother to upload a fresh
track.
And since the GPS tile layer is useful for restoring the road network,
I've made tiles up to zoom 15 for Poland, with green dots for using in
JOSM. Just add
tms[15]:http://zverik.osm.rambler.ru/gps/poland/{zoom}/{x}/{y}.png as a
TMS layer, and you're good.
I hope to see more uses to the GPX Planet, and to see it updated more
often. Also, I'd like to remind Ian and Grant about their unfinished
tool: https://github.com/iandees/planet-gpx-dump/ ;)
Thanks,
IZ
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Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetMap GPS Points Map
Ilya Zverev wrote: 1) A tile layer of GPS points for the whole world down to zoom 11: http://zverik.osm.rambler.ru/gps/ Thanks - that's really useful. It's really easy to see which bits have been mapped locally or remotely! Cheers, Andy ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetMap GPS Points Map
Hi, On Mon, Sep 10, 2012 at 3:33 AM, Ilya Zverev zve...@textual.ru wrote: Hi! As you know, almost half a year ago a GPX Planet was released (http://blog.osmfoundation.org/2012/04/01/bulk-gps-point-data/). At the time I expressed a hope that someone would process that file, making tile layer and regional extracts. Alas, in those months the file has only been statistically analyzed (thanks to Pascal Neis and Steven Kay), but no practical use for that array of data has been found. Well, as they say, OSM is do-ocracy: if you want something, the only way to get it is to do it yourself. So, after several weeks of coding and impatiently waiting for processing to finish, I present to you: 1) A tile layer of GPS points for the whole world down to zoom 11: http://zverik.osm.rambler.ru/gps/ Cool to see this on a map, and indeed useful for remapping. Also, it reminds me to upload more GPS tracks. I almost never do that anymore. Maybe if I could do it straight from JOSM -- martijn van exel http://oegeo.wordpress.com ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetMap GPS Points Map
Of course you can with the upload trace plugin Maning Sambale On Sep 10, 2012 9:57 PM, Martijn van Exel m...@rtijn.org wrote: Hi, On Mon, Sep 10, 2012 at 3:33 AM, Ilya Zverev zve...@textual.ru wrote: Hi! As you know, almost half a year ago a GPX Planet was released (http://blog.osmfoundation.org/2012/04/01/bulk-gps-point-data/). At the time I expressed a hope that someone would process that file, making tile layer and regional extracts. Alas, in those months the file has only been statistically analyzed (thanks to Pascal Neis and Steven Kay), but no practical use for that array of data has been found. Well, as they say, OSM is do-ocracy: if you want something, the only way to get it is to do it yourself. So, after several weeks of coding and impatiently waiting for processing to finish, I present to you: 1) A tile layer of GPS points for the whole world down to zoom 11: http://zverik.osm.rambler.ru/gps/ Cool to see this on a map, and indeed useful for remapping. Also, it reminds me to upload more GPS tracks. I almost never do that anymore. Maybe if I could do it straight from JOSM -- martijn van exel http://oegeo.wordpress.com ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetMap GPS Points Map
Hi, On Mon, Sep 10, 2012 at 8:06 AM, maning sambale emmanuel.samb...@gmail.com wrote: Of course you can with the upload trace plugin Maning Sambale Thanks! Another thing I noticed is how many people apparently successfully record traces from airplaines. I almost never get a signal on an airplane. Do you keep the receiver in your checked luggage? Maybe not the most useful thing for OSM, but I was just curious.. -- martijn van exel http://oegeo.wordpress.com ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetMap GPS Points Map
On Mon, Sep 10, 2012 at 08:15:50AM -0600, Martijn van Exel wrote: Another thing I noticed is how many people apparently successfully record traces from airplaines. I almost never get a signal on an airplane. Do you keep the receiver in your checked luggage? Maybe not the most useful thing for OSM, but I was just curious.. The reception is only marginal. Worked for me only when I switched on the receiver before entering the airplane and having a good GPS fix then. And, btw, barometric altimeters as they have in some GPS units give you very wrong results in planes. :-) Jochen -- Jochen Topf joc...@remote.org http://www.remote.org/jochen/ +49-721-388298 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetMap GPS Points Map
On 10/09/2012 11:33, Ilya Zverev wrote: 1) A tile layer of GPS points for the whole world down to zoom 11: http://zverik.osm.rambler.ru/gps/ 2) Regional extracts, so you won't have to wait several hours cutting your country out of the planet dump: http://zverik.osm.rambler.ru/gps/files/extracts/ 3) All tools that were used to build that map and those extracts: http://svn.openstreetmap.org/applications/utils/gps-tracks/gpxplanet_tools/ 4) A nice poster with GPS points, some statistics and interesting facts: http://zverik.osm.rambler.ru/gps/files/world-gps-points-120604-2048.png Ilya, Great work and I love the map (no tracks higher than zoom level 11 because of resources?) ... I can see my next out-of-Stockholm cycle rides already. Our GPX respository is a very undeveloped resource, it is good to see some thought and effort going into how to leverage it. Mike ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetMap GPS Points Map
On 10.09.2012 11:33, Ilya Zverev wrote: Alas, in those months the file has only been statistically analyzed (thanks to Pascal Neis and Steven Kay), but no practical use for that array of data has been found. Probably no one is interested in GPS points any more. I had developed a JOSM plugin and a server backend to download very fast blocks of GPS data. I assumed it be a good companion to the overpass mirror of OSM data. And fetching GPS points from the API is sometimes slow as hell. My demo implementation consisted of a JOSM extension and a server backend to provide GPS points (full resolution). The planned architecture also took intelligent caching and updating into account (in case more GPS exports would be available). I asked around for some feedback, but no one was interested in that plugin. I considered it useful for aligning aerial images and remapping some areas, but as no feedback arrived at all I did not put further energy into development. My server resources would not allow to provide it on a global scale anyway. My demo data covers Thailand, in case someone wants to give it a try. Regarding your project: Z11 is way to highlevel. Have you thought about better resolution? Maybe Z19 or Z20? Stephan ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetMap GPS Points Map
On Mon, 2012-09-10 at 17:05 +0200, Jochen Topf wrote: On Mon, Sep 10, 2012 at 08:15:50AM -0600, Martijn van Exel wrote: Another thing I noticed is how many people apparently successfully record traces from airplaines. I almost never get a signal on an airplane. Do you keep the receiver in your checked luggage? Maybe not the most useful thing for OSM, but I was just curious.. The reception is only marginal. Worked for me only when I switched on the receiver before entering the airplane and having a good GPS fix then. And, btw, barometric altimeters as they have in some GPS units give you very wrong results in planes. :-) I have never had a problem using a GPS on an aircraft. Virgin Voyagers are another matter however, awful glass that blocks GPS and mobile signals. Phil ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetMap GPS Points Map
Stephan Knauss: I had developed a JOSM plugin and a server backend to download very fast blocks of GPS data. I assumed it be a good companion to the overpass mirror of OSM data. And fetching GPS points from the API is sometimes slow as hell. But how do you deal with private and otherwise restricted GPS tracks? They are the main reason we still don't have full GPX planet, afaik. I asked around for some feedback, but no one was interested in that plugin. Did you announce it anywhere? I haven't heard about such plugin. My server resources would not allow to provide it on a global scale anyway. My demo data covers Thailand, in case someone wants to give it a try. That's the major problem: covering the whole planet with high-resolution tiles should require an awful lot of resources, which I don't have, and if anyone else had, he would spend them on more useful tasks. Regarding your project: Z11 is way to highlevel. Have you thought about better resolution? Maybe Z19 or Z20? All tiles are prerendered. I considered loading GPS points into database, but the required storage size is just ridiculous. So, there are ~300K tiles now. For zoom 12 there would be ~500K more. But zoom 12 doesn't differ from zoom 11 much on osm.org default map style, thus we'll need zoom 13 tiles, millions of them. It is simply unpractical. That's why I've released all of the tools, to allow everybody to generate tiles just for their country, region or a town. Actually, there are areas with higher prerendered zooms on the announced map: Western Russia is processed up to zoom 14, and Poland -- to zoom 15. I think that lacking sequential information (that is, when points are not connected), it is pointless to go below zoom 17: check Alex Morega's map at http://maps.grep.ro/ where he rendered points at zoom 17 a year ago. But then, if the purpose of tiles is to validate existing highways, zoom 15 is enough. For mapping, points are not enough regardless of zoom: speed and direction are as important as coordinates, and the current points dump does not, and could not have such information. IZ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
