Re: [OSM-talk] Serious consideration of "Newbie Editor"
Hi, have you ever considered taking MapZen as a starting point? I would consider MapZen as a newbie editor but it lacks some features and functionality. It is an CloudMade project but its Open Source software based on the GPL V2.0 license. Here is a link to its wiki entry: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Mapzen http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Mapzen Regards, Oliver -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/Serious-consideration-of-Newbie-Editor-tp4631495p4701014.html Sent from the General Discussion mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Serious consideration of "Newbie Editor"
I have added this as a proposed student project for this year's Google Summer of Code (http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/GSoC_Project_Ideas_2010). Please feel free to add to the scope of the project. I might leave the choice of platform (Flash, Javascript, Java etc.) as a design choice the student to make it more interesting. Regards Graham. On 28 February 2010 23:07, Randy wrote: > Dave Stubbs wrote: > > >On Sun, Feb 28, 2010 at 5:56 PM, Randy > wrote: > >>Dave, > >> > >>Do you have any way to estimate the resource requirements for Potlatch 2, > >>and what they would be if a "simple" switch were added. > >> > > > >Potlatch 2 currently runs on my netbook, and seeing as how I develop > >it on my netbook it should continue to do so :-) My netbook is an > >Atom 1.6GHz 1GB RAM BTW. > > > >The SWF size is about 550KB at the moment, most of which will be the > >flex gui framework and associated bits and pieces, so will be present > >in any flex based flash app. > > > >If you do a break down of where the code is at the moment: > > - about 20 classes for tag editing (the "simple" user stuff) > > - about 10 classes for vector editing > > - about 20 classes for handling OSM objects, and talking to the API 0.6 > > - about 25 classes for rendering data (halcyon) > > > >Simple mode basically takes out the vector editing stuff. > > > >You can obviously make something a lot lighter if you weren't using > >flex. Well, startup bandwidth lighter at least. > > > >Dave > > > >___ > >talk mailing list > >talk@openstreetmap.org > >http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk > > Thanks, Dave. I'm sure others with more experience than I can make a > better independent assessment, but it doesn't look particularly daunting > to me, as far as penalizing the early user. > > Granted, if it's doable (and widely supported), a super simple JS2 editor > might be lighter in startup. But, as someone else mentioned earlier, it's > probably worth some sacrifice to keep the UI between simple and powerful > as similar as possible. > -- > Randy > > > ___ > talk mailing list > talk@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk > -- Dr. Graham Jones Hartlepool, UK email: grahamjones...@gmail.com ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Serious consideration of "Newbie Editor"
Dave Stubbs wrote: >On Sun, Feb 28, 2010 at 5:56 PM, Randy wrote: >>Dave, >> >>Do you have any way to estimate the resource requirements for Potlatch 2, >>and what they would be if a "simple" switch were added. >> > >Potlatch 2 currently runs on my netbook, and seeing as how I develop >it on my netbook it should continue to do so :-) My netbook is an >Atom 1.6GHz 1GB RAM BTW. > >The SWF size is about 550KB at the moment, most of which will be the >flex gui framework and associated bits and pieces, so will be present >in any flex based flash app. > >If you do a break down of where the code is at the moment: > - about 20 classes for tag editing (the "simple" user stuff) > - about 10 classes for vector editing > - about 20 classes for handling OSM objects, and talking to the API 0.6 > - about 25 classes for rendering data (halcyon) > >Simple mode basically takes out the vector editing stuff. > >You can obviously make something a lot lighter if you weren't using >flex. Well, startup bandwidth lighter at least. > >Dave > >___ >talk mailing list >talk@openstreetmap.org >http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk Thanks, Dave. I'm sure others with more experience than I can make a better independent assessment, but it doesn't look particularly daunting to me, as far as penalizing the early user. Granted, if it's doable (and widely supported), a super simple JS2 editor might be lighter in startup. But, as someone else mentioned earlier, it's probably worth some sacrifice to keep the UI between simple and powerful as similar as possible. -- Randy ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Serious consideration of "Newbie Editor"
On Sun, Feb 28, 2010 at 5:56 PM, Randy wrote: > Dave Stubbs wrote: > >>On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 10:29 AM, John Smith >>wrote: >>>On 26 February 2010 19:44, Dave Stubbs wrote: There are two big advantages of a simple mode to an existing full editor: - you don't have to write the OSM handling parts again, even a simple editor needs to cope with some quite complex things - you provide an easy choice for the user who wishes to progress onto something less basic >>> >>>There are some downsides, bloated code base, which in turns makes >>>things harder for new coders to edit or fix small issues, and higher >>>memory and other resource usage, although javascript may be higher >>>still, but I haven't needed to compare flash to javscript before. >>> >> >>Bigger code base sure -- and lots of code that might not get used for >>some config -- if the code is written nicely that's largely to one >>side and people don't notice it. It's mostly UI stuff anyway -- as I >>said you actually end up needing most of the same back end processing >>if you're doing anything that involves not just POIs (and for various >>OSM reasons that's increasingly not so useful). This is more about >>good design than an inherent property. >> >>Higher memory and resource usage is about how you program it, and how >>the simple mode switch works, and isn't necessarily true at all. >> >>Flash vs Javascript is not really relevant to the points made, unless >>you mean that there isn't currently a javascript editor to cut down, >>which is of course true. >> >>Dave >> >>___ >>talk mailing list >>talk@openstreetmap.org >>http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk > > Dave, > > Do you have any way to estimate the resource requirements for Potlatch 2, > and what they would be if a "simple" switch were added. > Potlatch 2 currently runs on my netbook, and seeing as how I develop it on my netbook it should continue to do so :-) My netbook is an Atom 1.6GHz 1GB RAM BTW. The SWF size is about 550KB at the moment, most of which will be the flex gui framework and associated bits and pieces, so will be present in any flex based flash app. If you do a break down of where the code is at the moment: - about 20 classes for tag editing (the "simple" user stuff) - about 10 classes for vector editing - about 20 classes for handling OSM objects, and talking to the API 0.6 - about 25 classes for rendering data (halcyon) Simple mode basically takes out the vector editing stuff. You can obviously make something a lot lighter if you weren't using flex. Well, startup bandwidth lighter at least. Dave ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Serious consideration of "Newbie Editor"
Dave Stubbs wrote: >On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 10:29 AM, John Smith >wrote: >>On 26 February 2010 19:44, Dave Stubbs wrote: >>>There are two big advantages of a simple mode to an existing full editor: >>> >>> - you don't have to write the OSM handling parts again, even a simple >>>editor needs to cope with some quite complex things >>> >>> - you provide an easy choice for the user who wishes to progress onto >>>something less basic >> >>There are some downsides, bloated code base, which in turns makes >>things harder for new coders to edit or fix small issues, and higher >>memory and other resource usage, although javascript may be higher >>still, but I haven't needed to compare flash to javscript before. >> > >Bigger code base sure -- and lots of code that might not get used for >some config -- if the code is written nicely that's largely to one >side and people don't notice it. It's mostly UI stuff anyway -- as I >said you actually end up needing most of the same back end processing >if you're doing anything that involves not just POIs (and for various >OSM reasons that's increasingly not so useful). This is more about >good design than an inherent property. > >Higher memory and resource usage is about how you program it, and how >the simple mode switch works, and isn't necessarily true at all. > >Flash vs Javascript is not really relevant to the points made, unless >you mean that there isn't currently a javascript editor to cut down, >which is of course true. > >Dave > >___ >talk mailing list >talk@openstreetmap.org >http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk Dave, Do you have any way to estimate the resource requirements for Potlatch 2, and what they would be if a "simple" switch were added. It would be much better to have something to go on, rather than assumptions, which often lead to flame wars. -- Randy ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Serious consideration of "Newbie Editor"
On 27 February 2010 21:17, silversurfer wrote: > I think it would be great if the newbie editor would also work on mobile > phones / smartphones. I think these devices will get more and more > important. Perhaps browser-based. With the same user experience. Touch screens make it difficult to both navigate a browser screen and work the same as PC browsers, custom apps get round a lot of the issues. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Serious consideration of "Newbie Editor"
I have just tried the editor, added a kiosk name, entered my account information and saved. A look at JOSM revealed that it indeed works. I think it would be great if the newbie editor would also work on mobile phones / smartphones. I think these devices will get more and more important. Perhaps browser-based. With the same user experience. gkai On Thu, 25 Feb 2010 23:03:40 +0100, Roy Wallace wrote: > On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 7:11 AM, silversurfer > wrote: >> >> There is a similar concept on http://ae.osmsurround.org/. It is called >> OSM >> Amenity Editor. > > Wow, that's great! How did I not know about this editor? :S > > Liz, how does this compare to what you had in mind? Too simple? I > think it would be very handy to add the ability to name/rename roads, > but other than that, this looks great... I only had a quick look - > does hitting "Save" actually save the changes to OSM? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Serious consideration of "Newbie Editor"
On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 4:46 PM, Randy wrote: > > My personal preference would be to provide a little more capability, I understand your opinion, but I expect this approach would lead to something no more newbie-friendly than Potlatch 2. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Serious consideration of "Newbie Editor"
On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 8:42 PM, Liz wrote: > I would suggest that Potlatch is left alone for its devotees. So, it's been decided that Potlatch is too complicated for newbies? Strange, I actually found it pretty easy to pick up, especially with the "cheat sheet" in the help. Whereas JOSM I still find pretty daunting and unintuitive. Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Serious consideration of "Newbie Editor"
On 26 February 2010 22:38, Dave Stubbs wrote: > if you're doing anything that involves not just POIs (and for various > OSM reasons that's increasingly not so useful). This is more about > good design than an inherent property. Actually that's what most of this discussion has been about, making an editor with the minimum amount of features that newbies are likely to actually need. > Higher memory and resource usage is about how you program it, and how > the simple mode switch works, and isn't necessarily true at all. More code loaded = more resources needed... > Flash vs Javascript is not really relevant to the points made, unless > you mean that there isn't currently a javascript editor to cut down, > which is of course true. This is commenting about previous emails on what should be used to implement it. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Serious consideration of "Newbie Editor"
On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 10:29 AM, John Smith wrote: > On 26 February 2010 19:44, Dave Stubbs wrote: >> There are two big advantages of a simple mode to an existing full editor: >> >> - you don't have to write the OSM handling parts again, even a simple >> editor needs to cope with some quite complex things >> >> - you provide an easy choice for the user who wishes to progress onto >> something less basic > > There are some downsides, bloated code base, which in turns makes > things harder for new coders to edit or fix small issues, and higher > memory and other resource usage, although javascript may be higher > still, but I haven't needed to compare flash to javscript before. > Bigger code base sure -- and lots of code that might not get used for some config -- if the code is written nicely that's largely to one side and people don't notice it. It's mostly UI stuff anyway -- as I said you actually end up needing most of the same back end processing if you're doing anything that involves not just POIs (and for various OSM reasons that's increasingly not so useful). This is more about good design than an inherent property. Higher memory and resource usage is about how you program it, and how the simple mode switch works, and isn't necessarily true at all. Flash vs Javascript is not really relevant to the points made, unless you mean that there isn't currently a javascript editor to cut down, which is of course true. Dave ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Serious consideration of "Newbie Editor"
On 26 February 2010 19:44, Dave Stubbs wrote: > There are two big advantages of a simple mode to an existing full editor: > > - you don't have to write the OSM handling parts again, even a simple > editor needs to cope with some quite complex things > > - you provide an easy choice for the user who wishes to progress onto > something less basic There are some downsides, bloated code base, which in turns makes things harder for new coders to edit or fix small issues, and higher memory and other resource usage, although javascript may be higher still, but I haven't needed to compare flash to javscript before. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Serious consideration of "Newbie Editor"
On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 10:02 PM, Roy Wallace wrote: > On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 7:13 AM, Tim McNamara > wrote: >> >> For future discussion, once scope has been determined: Would it be an idea >> to provide a toggle between simple mode & complex mode inside of Potlatch, >> rather than build a completely new editor? > > I think it first depends on what we decide we want this new editor to do. > Potlatch 2 has a bunch of "simpler" features than Potlatch, mostly revolving around tagging -- we're still making a full editor here, but if you imagine turning off the vector editing and the advanced tabs then it becomes much simpler proposition. It's also written in a way that doing those things would not be so difficult. There are two big advantages of a simple mode to an existing full editor: - you don't have to write the OSM handling parts again, even a simple editor needs to cope with some quite complex things - you provide an easy choice for the user who wishes to progress onto something less basic Anyway, for anyone who hasn't had a play with the latest development version of Potlatch 2, you can do so here on the dev server: http://random.dev.openstreetmap.org/potlatch2/potlatch2.html And anyone wishing to get involved, please do! Dave ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Serious consideration of "Newbie Editor"
If you turn on "data" on the main OSM website you get an overlay of all the ways and nodes that are tagged. While this is not an editor it wouldn't be very hard to extend the information pane so that you can update information, not just view it if you are logged in. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Serious consideration of "Newbie Editor"
Liz what about a wikipage to collect the requirements of the N00b editor? I find it hard to read all these mails, What is the big list of features? mike On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 9:16 AM, Jean-Guilhem Cailton wrote: > Jean-Guilhem Cailton a écrit : > > Roy Wallace a écrit : > > On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 7:11 AM, silversurfer > wrote: > > > There is a similar concept on http://ae.osmsurround.org/. It is called OSM > Amenity Editor. > > > Wow, that's great! How did I not know about this editor? :S > > Liz, how does this compare to what you had in mind? Too simple? I > think it would be very handy to add the ability to name/rename roads, > but other than that, this looks great... I only had a quick look - > does hitting "Save" actually save the changes to OSM? > > > > I tried to save a change to a POI in my neighborhood, I was offered to > enter my OSM id/password, but then there was an error and the change was > apparently not entered. > > Also, while trying to correct the "amenity=..." tag value, I had the nice > surprise to be offered possible values, apparently with their current > frequency in the data base. > > This does look like a nice basis, maybe indeed with the added ability to > name/rename roads. > > ... and add street numbers ? > > ___ > talk mailing list > talk@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk > > ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Serious consideration of "Newbie Editor"
Jean-Guilhem Cailton a écrit : Roy Wallace a écrit : On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 7:11 AM, silversurfer wrote: There is a similar concept on http://ae.osmsurround.org/. It is called OSM Amenity Editor. Wow, that's great! How did I not know about this editor? :S Liz, how does this compare to what you had in mind? Too simple? I think it would be very handy to add the ability to name/rename roads, but other than that, this looks great... I only had a quick look - does hitting "Save" actually save the changes to OSM? I tried to save a change to a POI in my neighborhood, I was offered to enter my OSM id/password, but then there was an error and the change was apparently not entered. Also, while trying to correct the "amenity=..." tag value, I had the nice surprise to be offered possible values, apparently with their current frequency in the data base. This does look like a nice basis, maybe indeed with the added ability to name/rename roads. ... and add street numbers ? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Serious consideration of "Newbie Editor"
Roy Wallace a e'crit: On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 7:11 AM, silversurfer wrote: There is a similar concept on http://ae.osmsurround.org/. It is called OSM Amenity Editor. Wow, that's great! How did I not know about this editor? :S Liz, how does this compare to what you had in mind? Too simple? I think it would be very handy to add the ability to name/rename roads, but other than that, this looks great... I only had a quick look - does hitting "Save" actually save the changes to OSM? I tried to save a change to a POI in my neighborhood, I was offered to enter my OSM id/password, but then there was an error and the change was apparently not entered. Also, while trying to correct the "amenity=..." tag value, I had the nice surprise to be offered possible values, apparently with their current frequency in the data base. This does look like a nice basis, maybe indeed with the added ability to name/rename roads. Jean-Guilhem ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Serious consideration of "Newbie Editor"
Roy Wallace wrote: >On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 7:42 PM, Liz wrote: >> >>I would suggest that Potlatch is left alone for its devotees. >> >>I'd start with the following in the design brief for the "Newbie Editor" >>Can add nodes, label them with default tags only (other than name). >>Can add ways, again default tag list only, other than name. >>Very limited deletion ability (no clear idea yet on how to define this). > >I suspect starting at even this level of complexity would cause >feature creep towards Potlatch, anyway...In particular, being able to >add/edit ways requires handling many complex concepts (as others have >brought up), like joining ways, way direction, overlapping ways, etc. > >How about an even bigger step back? If starting a new editor from >scratch is to be worthwhile, surely it should be a LOT more basic than >all other existing editors. i.e. how about only these features: > >1) Add POI >User specifies: > a) where it is > b) what it is (choose from a single list of options) > c) the name > >2) Edit Name > e.g. add or fix the name of an existing road - this should help a >lot with noname roads > > >Secondly: can we please decide on the scope of before we talk about >the details of the implementation (flash/javascript/etc)? My personal preference would be to provide a little more capability, such as adding a simple two-way highway, with only the minimum in selected presets, except for the name, and moving nodes to correct a highway within limits, but nothing more than that. But, as long as the architecture of the editor and the UI are designed so that limited additional capability can be added if/when it is deemed desirable, I have no problem with keeping to the extreme minimum, initially. Maybe simple way editing could be part of the "turbo" (please not "complex") editor mode. One thing I do think should be included in the simplist editor would be a way to tag any object with a FIX ME plus a comment. So that the user can as least flag a discovered error, even if it can't be fixed with the user's current editor/expertise. That would relieve a little frustration for someone who might feel that the simple editor was too restrictive and that the error they found will be lost once more. And yes, there should be a prominent link to a page that briefly describes the other, more powerful editors a short list of pros and cons, and links to them. I think something of this nature, maybe less, probably not more, would grab the user with "Yes, I can make a difference!" followed by "Now I want to make a bigger difference, and I've got some idea about where to go next." Maybe I'm wrong. Only time and the hard work of those with the expertise to do it will tell. -- Randy ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Serious consideration of "Newbie Editor"
silversurfer wrote: > There is a similar concept on http://ae.osmsurround.org/. It is called OSM > Amenity Editor. In order to be a truly easy editor it would need fixed and localized data entry masks instead of text fields. Imo, we cannot expect newbies to look up and edit raw key/value strings. Couldn't the Amenity Editor share presets with JOSM? That would instantly make a large number maintained and translated templates available. Problems that could lead to calls for banning it include: * you can move nodes on ways if they have tags. If someone moves the marker for e.g. a road sign along a street - which looks perfectly sensible in AE -, it will probably distort the way (haven't tested). * it doesn't display markers for features mapped as areas. This would inevitably lead to a lot of duplicate entries. Nothing that couldn't be fixed, though. It clearly demonstrates that simpler-than-Potlatch editing is possible. Tobias Knerr ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Serious consideration of "Newbie Editor"
On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 7:13 AM, Tim McNamara wrote: > > For future discussion, once scope has been determined: Would it be an idea > to provide a toggle between simple mode & complex mode inside of Potlatch, > rather than build a completely new editor? I think it first depends on what we decide we want this new editor to do. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Serious consideration of "Newbie Editor"
On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 7:11 AM, silversurfer wrote: > > There is a similar concept on http://ae.osmsurround.org/. It is called OSM > Amenity Editor. Wow, that's great! How did I not know about this editor? :S Liz, how does this compare to what you had in mind? Too simple? I think it would be very handy to add the ability to name/rename roads, but other than that, this looks great... I only had a quick look - does hitting "Save" actually save the changes to OSM? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Serious consideration of "Newbie Editor"
A simple/complex switch in an existing editor is a nice idea. I didn't suggest it because Potlatch is the obvious candidate and I know nothing about Flash programming, so couldn't offer to help do that - I would have a bit more chance with a Java applet, but I am a bit old fashioned like that! Javascript would be the obvious next choice after Flash, but I find it very hard to de-bug and it always feels a bit un-responsive to me, but that may well be the networking rather than the program itself. Graham. On 25 February 2010 21:13, Tim McNamara wrote: > On 26 February 2010 09:47, Graham Jones wrote: >> >> We could then have a nice banner on the bottom of the screen pointing to >> the descriptions of the other editors that would allow you to add or change >> geometries. >> >> > +1 > > I think the app should provide some form of stepping stone functionality > for more advanced tools. > > For future discussion, once scope has been determined: Would it be an idea > to provide a toggle between simple mode & complex mode inside of Potlatch, > rather than build a completely new editor? Potlatch could default to simple > mode to prevent scaring off new contributors, but provide more complex > operations with one click. > > >> Graham. >> >> >> On 25 February 2010 20:29, Roy Wallace wrote: >> >>> On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 7:42 PM, Liz wrote: >>> > >>> > I would suggest that Potlatch is left alone for its devotees. >>> > >>> > I'd start with the following in the design brief for the "Newbie >>> Editor" >>> > Can add nodes, label them with default tags only (other than name). >>> > Can add ways, again default tag list only, other than name. >>> > Very limited deletion ability (no clear idea yet on how to define >>> this). >>> >>> I suspect starting at even this level of complexity would cause >>> feature creep towards Potlatch, anyway...In particular, being able to >>> add/edit ways requires handling many complex concepts (as others have >>> brought up), like joining ways, way direction, overlapping ways, etc. >>> >>> How about an even bigger step back? If starting a new editor from >>> scratch is to be worthwhile, surely it should be a LOT more basic than >>> all other existing editors. i.e. how about only these features: >>> >>> 1) Add POI >>> User specifies: >>> a) where it is >>> b) what it is (choose from a single list of options) >>> c) the name >>> >>> 2) Edit Name >>> e.g. add or fix the name of an existing road - this should help a >>> lot with noname roads >>> >> -- Dr. Graham Jones Hartlepool, UK email: grahamjones...@gmail.com ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Serious consideration of "Newbie Editor"
On 26 February 2010 09:47, Graham Jones wrote: > > We could then have a nice banner on the bottom of the screen pointing to > the descriptions of the other editors that would allow you to add or change > geometries. > > +1 I think the app should provide some form of stepping stone functionality for more advanced tools. For future discussion, once scope has been determined: Would it be an idea to provide a toggle between simple mode & complex mode inside of Potlatch, rather than build a completely new editor? Potlatch could default to simple mode to prevent scaring off new contributors, but provide more complex operations with one click. > Graham. > > > On 25 February 2010 20:29, Roy Wallace wrote: > >> On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 7:42 PM, Liz wrote: >> > >> > I would suggest that Potlatch is left alone for its devotees. >> > >> > I'd start with the following in the design brief for the "Newbie Editor" >> > Can add nodes, label them with default tags only (other than name). >> > Can add ways, again default tag list only, other than name. >> > Very limited deletion ability (no clear idea yet on how to define this). >> >> I suspect starting at even this level of complexity would cause >> feature creep towards Potlatch, anyway...In particular, being able to >> add/edit ways requires handling many complex concepts (as others have >> brought up), like joining ways, way direction, overlapping ways, etc. >> >> How about an even bigger step back? If starting a new editor from >> scratch is to be worthwhile, surely it should be a LOT more basic than >> all other existing editors. i.e. how about only these features: >> >> 1) Add POI >> User specifies: >> a) where it is >> b) what it is (choose from a single list of options) >> c) the name >> >> 2) Edit Name >> e.g. add or fix the name of an existing road - this should help a >> lot with noname roads >> > ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Serious consideration of "Newbie Editor"
There is a similar concept on http://ae.osmsurround.org/. It is called OSM Amenity Editor. gkai On Thu, 25 Feb 2010 21:47:18 +0100, Graham Jones wrote: > I are with keeping the scope very limited - if we start to add too many > features you will get Potlatch, which would defeat the object of a very > simple, easy to use editor for people that do not understand much about > the > underlying data structure. > > I think that Adding POIs and changing labels of existing entities should > be > enough for most casual users (so people can change the spelling of their > street, add a bank etc.). > > We could then have a nice banner on the bottom of the screen pointing to > the > descriptions of the other editors that would allow you to add or change > geometries. > > Graham. > > On 25 February 2010 20:29, Roy Wallace wrote: > >> On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 7:42 PM, Liz wrote: >> > >> > I would suggest that Potlatch is left alone for its devotees. >> > >> > I'd start with the following in the design brief for the "Newbie >> Editor" >> > Can add nodes, label them with default tags only (other than name). >> > Can add ways, again default tag list only, other than name. >> > Very limited deletion ability (no clear idea yet on how to define >> this). >> >> I suspect starting at even this level of complexity would cause >> feature creep towards Potlatch, anyway...In particular, being able to >> add/edit ways requires handling many complex concepts (as others have >> brought up), like joining ways, way direction, overlapping ways, etc. >> >> How about an even bigger step back? If starting a new editor from >> scratch is to be worthwhile, surely it should be a LOT more basic than >> all other existing editors. i.e. how about only these features: >> >> 1) Add POI >> User specifies: >> a) where it is >> b) what it is (choose from a single list of options) >> c) the name >> >> 2) Edit Name >> e.g. add or fix the name of an existing road - this should help a >> lot with noname roads >> >> >> Secondly: can we please decide on the scope of before we talk about >> the details of the implementation (flash/javascript/etc)? >> >> ___ >> talk mailing list >> talk@openstreetmap.org >> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk >> > > > ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Serious consideration of "Newbie Editor"
I are with keeping the scope very limited - if we start to add too many features you will get Potlatch, which would defeat the object of a very simple, easy to use editor for people that do not understand much about the underlying data structure. I think that Adding POIs and changing labels of existing entities should be enough for most casual users (so people can change the spelling of their street, add a bank etc.). We could then have a nice banner on the bottom of the screen pointing to the descriptions of the other editors that would allow you to add or change geometries. Graham. On 25 February 2010 20:29, Roy Wallace wrote: > On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 7:42 PM, Liz wrote: > > > > I would suggest that Potlatch is left alone for its devotees. > > > > I'd start with the following in the design brief for the "Newbie Editor" > > Can add nodes, label them with default tags only (other than name). > > Can add ways, again default tag list only, other than name. > > Very limited deletion ability (no clear idea yet on how to define this). > > I suspect starting at even this level of complexity would cause > feature creep towards Potlatch, anyway...In particular, being able to > add/edit ways requires handling many complex concepts (as others have > brought up), like joining ways, way direction, overlapping ways, etc. > > How about an even bigger step back? If starting a new editor from > scratch is to be worthwhile, surely it should be a LOT more basic than > all other existing editors. i.e. how about only these features: > > 1) Add POI > User specifies: > a) where it is > b) what it is (choose from a single list of options) > c) the name > > 2) Edit Name > e.g. add or fix the name of an existing road - this should help a > lot with noname roads > > > Secondly: can we please decide on the scope of before we talk about > the details of the implementation (flash/javascript/etc)? > > ___ > talk mailing list > talk@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk > -- Dr. Graham Jones Hartlepool, UK email: grahamjones...@gmail.com ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Serious consideration of "Newbie Editor"
On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 6:29 AM, Roy Wallace wrote: > > How about an even bigger step back? Actually I just realised that, alternatively, perhaps we could be looking at something like "Mapzen POI Collector" for the desktop? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Serious consideration of "Newbie Editor"
On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 7:42 PM, Liz wrote: > > I would suggest that Potlatch is left alone for its devotees. > > I'd start with the following in the design brief for the "Newbie Editor" > Can add nodes, label them with default tags only (other than name). > Can add ways, again default tag list only, other than name. > Very limited deletion ability (no clear idea yet on how to define this). I suspect starting at even this level of complexity would cause feature creep towards Potlatch, anyway...In particular, being able to add/edit ways requires handling many complex concepts (as others have brought up), like joining ways, way direction, overlapping ways, etc. How about an even bigger step back? If starting a new editor from scratch is to be worthwhile, surely it should be a LOT more basic than all other existing editors. i.e. how about only these features: 1) Add POI User specifies: a) where it is b) what it is (choose from a single list of options) c) the name 2) Edit Name e.g. add or fix the name of an existing road - this should help a lot with noname roads Secondly: can we please decide on the scope of before we talk about the details of the implementation (flash/javascript/etc)? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Serious consideration of "Newbie Editor"
andrzej zaborowski wrote: >All I'm saying is you surely remember all these threads on this list >and if you want to make a new editor that's easier than Potlatch then >it's more likely that there will be this kind of voices. And if the >editor soon gets banned then it wasn't very useful to spend time on >it. > >Cheers History often teaches us lessons, but sometimes we need to avoid predictions and fears of the past recurring in order to move on to the future. This thread has been very creative. Let's not let fears of the past squelch or redirect that creativity. Maybe we have all learned some lessons that will avoid the negatives of the past. Let's assume that until proven otherwise. And, thanks to Liz for kicking this thread off. I think it has stimulated some creative juices in the group. Unfortunately my understanding of the guts of OSM, and my limited and archaic programming skills prevent me from making any creative technical inputs. So, PRESS ON!! -- Randy ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Serious consideration of "Newbie Editor"
On 25 February 2010 16:04, David Fawcett wrote: > On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 7:03 AM, andrzej zaborowski wrote: > >> I don't want to Imagine the BAN THE NEW EDITOR voices here though. >> Potlatch was already considered too accessible by a lot of people, >> including me, although I think I got over it, because of the "very >> non-technical" mappers it invited to contribute and who just added >> work for others to correct. > > Andrzej, > > I humbly apologize for messing up your world map. All I'm saying is you surely remember all these threads on this list and if you want to make a new editor that's easier than Potlatch then it's more likely that there will be this kind of voices. And if the editor soon gets banned then it wasn't very useful to spend time on it. Cheers ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Serious consideration of "Newbie Editor"
On Feb 25, 2010, at 6:32 AM, Ian Dees wrote: > Most of this is fairly trivial. The trickiest part is (a) making an > API call to return the way closest to a given pair of coordinates > and (b) make it fast enough for franticly-clicking newbies to not > get upset when it doesn't respond immediately. > > Since all of this is fairly modal, a help screen could be shown on > the left describing what to do at each step of the way. i.e. "Find a > road you'd like to edit and click on it." (click) "Now, drag to > change the position of the road." (clickdragclick) "If you're done, > click 'Save'! You're done! Congratulations." This, all of it. Not an "editor", just a way to poke the map and make a change directly. -mike. michal migurski- m...@stamen.com 415.558.1610 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Serious consideration of "Newbie Editor"
I am guessing that OpenLayers could already have most of the functionality that is needed. The primary issue is with the practical limit on the number of vector features being handled by the browser. When used in IE, that is about 300 features. If you can manage the number of features downloaded in a manner that didn't bother the user, I am guessing that it could work. David. On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 7:00 AM, John Smith wrote: > On 25 February 2010 22:23, Emilie Laffray wrote: >> A full Javascript implementation is certainly possible with some of the new >> feature that are only in some browsers (read forget all browser except for > > I think you are over playing this, the openlayers JS can already do a > lot in existing browsers and even IE, and if we're only talking about > a simple browser it doesn't need all the features that exist in JOSM > etc. > > ___ > talk mailing list > talk@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk > ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Serious consideration of "Newbie Editor"
On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 7:03 AM, andrzej zaborowski wrote: > I don't want to Imagine the BAN THE NEW EDITOR voices here though. > Potlatch was already considered too accessible by a lot of people, > including me, although I think I got over it, because of the "very > non-technical" mappers it invited to contribute and who just added > work for others to correct. Andrzej, I humbly apologize for messing up your world map. David. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Serious consideration of "Newbie Editor"
On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 8:16 AM, Emilie Laffray wrote: > On 25 February 2010 13:00, John Smith wrote: > >> On 25 February 2010 22:23, Emilie Laffray >> wrote: >> > A full Javascript implementation is certainly possible with some of the >> new >> > feature that are only in some browsers (read forget all browser except >> for >> >> I think you are over playing this, the openlayers JS can already do a >> lot in existing browsers and even IE, and if we're only talking about >> a simple browser it doesn't need all the features that exist in JOSM >> etc. >> > > Sorry in advance for the mixed answers. > > I might over play it but I used to do some serious coding in JS for some > time, and browser compatibilities and limitations were all too evident at > the time. I suspect it has changed quite a bit with the new Javascript > engines out there, but I suspect that some of the more advanced > functionalities that you might need might have some problem in the end due > to memory and cpu constraints. Someone mentioned Cartagen which is very > interesting but still slow for a tool. Again, I don't mind being proven > wrong. Ian's code could be a starting point for some interested coders. > > When I was playing with using a JavaScript editor, my thought was to do what Google MapMaker does: show the slippy map without any primitives downloaded for editing. If a user wants to edit something, they must first click on it (which causes an API hit to download the way(s) and node(s)). Afterwards, the way shows up as a line with draggable handles to change the position. Also, a dialog for editing the tags (in a simple way). Most of this is fairly trivial. The trickiest part is (a) making an API call to return the way closest to a given pair of coordinates and (b) make it fast enough for franticly-clicking newbies to not get upset when it doesn't respond immediately. Since all of this is fairly modal, a help screen could be shown on the left describing what to do at each step of the way. i.e. "Find a road you'd like to edit and click on it." (click) "Now, drag to change the position of the road." (clickdragclick) "If you're done, click 'Save'! You're done! Congratulations." User stories for adding new POI and roads attached to existing roads might be a little more complicated, but still doable. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Serious consideration of "Newbie Editor"
On 25 February 2010 13:00, John Smith wrote: > On 25 February 2010 22:23, Emilie Laffray > wrote: > > A full Javascript implementation is certainly possible with some of the > new > > feature that are only in some browsers (read forget all browser except > for > > I think you are over playing this, the openlayers JS can already do a > lot in existing browsers and even IE, and if we're only talking about > a simple browser it doesn't need all the features that exist in JOSM > etc. > Sorry in advance for the mixed answers. I might over play it but I used to do some serious coding in JS for some time, and browser compatibilities and limitations were all too evident at the time. I suspect it has changed quite a bit with the new Javascript engines out there, but I suspect that some of the more advanced functionalities that you might need might have some problem in the end due to memory and cpu constraints. Someone mentioned Cartagen which is very interesting but still slow for a tool. Again, I don't mind being proven wrong. Ian's code could be a starting point for some interested coders. We have to think also in terms of functionalities and target platforms. As Andrezj said, we could use SVG which would solve a few problems, since at least SVG can be manipulated through DOM api. We could use libraries like openlayer which would provide us with a good starting point. I might be wrong but it all depends on what you want to do, how fast, how complete, etc... Also, I would like to point out that Richard at some point mentioned that a HTML 5 client for Potlatch would be nice. Action Script is an ECMAscript based language. Of course, we would be missing libraries from Flash, but adapting part of the code would be possible for someone that is technically able. Anyway, in any case, I don't want to discourage anyone from working on this. It would be quite interesting to see it happen. Emilie Laffray ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Serious consideration of "Newbie Editor"
On 25 February 2010 22:23, Emilie Laffray wrote: > A full Javascript implementation is certainly possible with some of the new > feature that are only in some browsers (read forget all browser except for I think you are over playing this, the openlayers JS can already do a lot in existing browsers and even IE, and if we're only talking about a simple browser it doesn't need all the features that exist in JOSM etc. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Serious consideration of "Newbie Editor"
On 25 February 2010 10:42, Liz wrote: > I would suggest that Potlatch is left alone for its devotees. > > I'd start with the following in the design brief for the "Newbie Editor" > Can add nodes, label them with default tags only (other than name). > Can add ways, again default tag list only, other than name. > Very limited deletion ability (no clear idea yet on how to define this). + drawing ways by driving a car in 3d! :) I don't want to Imagine the BAN THE NEW EDITOR voices here though. Potlatch was already considered too accessible by a lot of people, including me, although I think I got over it, because of the "very non-technical" mappers it invited to contribute and who just added work for others to correct. Cheers ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Serious consideration of "Newbie Editor"
On 25 February 2010 13:30, Ian Dees wrote: > On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 6:23 AM, Emilie Laffray > wrote: >> >> >> On 25 February 2010 12:14, Gaz Davidson wrote: >>> >>> If there are plans for a new web editor, can avoiding Flash be part of >>> the considerations? >>> >> >> I would like to know what you suggest in order to replace Flash. While I >> dislike Flash quite a bit, I fail to see what you could actually use to >> replace it: >> - Javascript with HTML 5 >> - Silverlight >> - Java applets >> >> A full Javascript implementation is certainly possible with some of the >> new feature that are only in some browsers (read forget all browser except >> for cutting edge versions, and except IE) > > I've toyed with using Google Maps API to implement a simple editor before. > It was fairly simple to do. I stopped development because I didn't think it > would gain widespread use in the OSM community because it was created with > their API. > > I know OpenLayers provides a similar drawing API, but I was more familiar > with Google Maps API. You could either just use svg directly or use a library like raphael or OpenLayers or Google maps, (but check out the demos at http://raphaeljs.com/) There's a problem with all the javascript approaches though and it's the memory limit, I believe this is why cartagen isn't any useful. Obviously flash, silverlight and java have memory limits too but they're higher. I don't see silverlight as a gain over flash as there's no _really_usable_ opensource implementation of either (that I know of) and so some mappers will always be excluded -- those that value software freedom or those on rare architectures. Cheers ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Serious consideration of "Newbie Editor"
On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 6:23 AM, Emilie Laffray wrote: > > > On 25 February 2010 12:14, Gaz Davidson wrote: > >> If there are plans for a new web editor, can avoiding Flash be part of >> the considerations? >> >> > I would like to know what you suggest in order to replace Flash. While I > dislike Flash quite a bit, I fail to see what you could actually use to > replace it: > - Javascript with HTML 5 > - Silverlight > - Java applets > > A full Javascript implementation is certainly possible with some of the new > feature that are only in some browsers (read forget all browser except for > cutting edge versions, and except IE) > I've toyed with using Google Maps API to implement a simple editor before. It was fairly simple to do. I stopped development because I didn't think it would gain widespread use in the OSM community because it was created with their API. I know OpenLayers provides a similar drawing API, but I was more familiar with Google Maps API. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Serious consideration of "Newbie Editor"
On 25 February 2010 12:14, Gaz Davidson wrote: > If there are plans for a new web editor, can avoiding Flash be part of > the considerations? > > I would like to know what you suggest in order to replace Flash. While I dislike Flash quite a bit, I fail to see what you could actually use to replace it: - Javascript with HTML 5 - Silverlight - Java applets A full Javascript implementation is certainly possible with some of the new feature that are only in some browsers (read forget all browser except for cutting edge versions, and except IE). A silverlight implementation is certainly possible too, but the plugin is not widely spread among the different browsers and the different operating systems. You could of course code in Java and create a Java applet, but honestly I fail to see how it would be acceptable to many people. I might miss other possibilities but those are the main alternative to Flash and for many reason none are really a good alternative yet to Flash. If you have a good idea on how to crack the Flash problem, please let us know. Emilie Laffray ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Serious consideration of "Newbie Editor"
If there are plans for a new web editor, can avoiding Flash be part of the considerations? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Serious consideration of "Newbie Editor"
Op 25-02-10 10:50, John Smith schreef: > On 25 February 2010 19:42, Liz wrote: >> I would suggest that Potlatch is left alone for its devotees. >> >> I'd start with the following in the design brief for the "Newbie Editor" >> Can add nodes, label them with default tags only (other than name). >> Can add ways, again default tag list only, other than name. >> Very limited deletion ability (no clear idea yet on how to define this). > > Need some error checking on over lapped ways, could be as simple as > poping up an error message asking if the ways should be joined or are > on different levels and add layer tagging or joining the ways as > needed. Why not do some thing that prevents the way to go overlapping in the first place, something like an elastic band thing. Until the location is correct, the direction follows the mouse but waits until a non cross. This could also be a good thing for polygons that self intersect. I think this newbee editor should basically get layers, and not be some free form editor. Clearly get a user in the direction: "You are now editing the road system" (Leaving all other data readonly) or "You are now editing PoI's". Stefan ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Serious consideration of "Newbie Editor"
That would include a better way to add comments to way and tag them for quality. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Serious consideration of "Newbie Editor"
I would like to see a global bug tracking and issue system for josm. that would include automatic checks on upload. imagine if all validity checks were stored globally. you could also do a validity filter on the map and only show validated ways. mike On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 11:13 AM, John Smith wrote: > On 25 February 2010 20:10, Richard Mann > wrote: > > Error-checking sounds like a great way of putting scary pop-ups on the > > screen to frighten newbies. So you'd have to be very very careful how > > clear they were. If in doubt leave them out. Leave these bugs to be > > detected by keepright etc. > > True, perhaps if we leave out vector editing altogether and instead > just give people a way of simple problems (bad name or no name etc) > and a way to report problems, eg routing that doesn't seem to work > properly. > > ___ > talk mailing list > talk@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk > ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Serious consideration of "Newbie Editor"
On 25 February 2010 20:10, Richard Mann wrote: > Error-checking sounds like a great way of putting scary pop-ups on the > screen to frighten newbies. So you'd have to be very very careful how > clear they were. If in doubt leave them out. Leave these bugs to be > detected by keepright etc. True, perhaps if we leave out vector editing altogether and instead just give people a way of simple problems (bad name or no name etc) and a way to report problems, eg routing that doesn't seem to work properly. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Serious consideration of "Newbie Editor"
Error-checking sounds like a great way of putting scary pop-ups on the screen to frighten newbies. So you'd have to be very very careful how clear they were. If in doubt leave them out. Leave these bugs to be detected by keepright etc. But there should be a way of editing names of existing objects, and minor tweaks to existing objects (additional nodes on a way, movements of existing nodes). People should be able to fix minor labelling and shape errors. Richard On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 9:50 AM, John Smith wrote: > On 25 February 2010 19:42, Liz wrote: >> I would suggest that Potlatch is left alone for its devotees. >> >> I'd start with the following in the design brief for the "Newbie Editor" >> Can add nodes, label them with default tags only (other than name). >> Can add ways, again default tag list only, other than name. >> Very limited deletion ability (no clear idea yet on how to define this). > > Need some error checking on over lapped ways, could be as simple as > poping up an error message asking if the ways should be joined or are > on different levels and add layer tagging or joining the ways as > needed. > > ___ > talk mailing list > talk@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk > ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Serious consideration of "Newbie Editor"
On 25 February 2010 19:42, Liz wrote: > I would suggest that Potlatch is left alone for its devotees. > > I'd start with the following in the design brief for the "Newbie Editor" > Can add nodes, label them with default tags only (other than name). > Can add ways, again default tag list only, other than name. > Very limited deletion ability (no clear idea yet on how to define this). Need some error checking on over lapped ways, could be as simple as poping up an error message asking if the ways should be joined or are on different levels and add layer tagging or joining the ways as needed. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Serious consideration of "Newbie Editor"
I would suggest that Potlatch is left alone for its devotees. I'd start with the following in the design brief for the "Newbie Editor" Can add nodes, label them with default tags only (other than name). Can add ways, again default tag list only, other than name. Very limited deletion ability (no clear idea yet on how to define this). ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
