Re: [OSM-talk] NaPTAN bus stop import
You'll find that this has been talked about on the talk-gb and the talk-transit mailing lists as they are not of global importance, rather just nation UK importance. Shaun On 21 Sep 2009, at 10:06, Mike Harris wrote: Hi Can someone expand a little on what is happening with the NaPTAN bus stop import apparently ongoing in some UK areas? I have taken a look at the wiki but am still a little unsure about a couple of things and don't want to cause any problems with what appears to be a potentially valuable addition to OSM. Pity it wasn't announced on this talk group? 1. What are the basic import and rendering rules? Bus stops seem to appear in various places - all as a relation with two members but rendered variously (but different from the usual bus stop rendering, least in JOSM, my main editor), sometimes only one is rendered, creating the risk that one tag of the pair gets accidentally deleted as an orphan node. 2. If the two members of the relation are supposed to be two stops either side of the road, how does NaPTAN handle where there is physically only one - i.e. one stop on one side of the road is for both directions? Is this the reason for the un-rendered nodes? 3. Where a bus stop has already been manually added prior to the import do we just leave well alone at the moment until the merge process is more advanced? i.e. there will be 3 or 4 bus stops where there should be one or two. Messy - but I can understand the need for consistency in the longer run. 4. The positioning of the NaPTAN-imported bus stops seems generally to be very good vis-à-vis GPS surveyed manually entered bus stops (at least the ones I've stumbled across so far) - but where there is a discrepancy are we allowed to correct yet or not? The bigger issue seems to be where there is only a NaPTAN import but it is out of line with the relevant way - this seems to be much more common in my limited experience. I suspect that the ways may be off (e.g. created from NPE or Yahoo tracing - or simply surveyed at speed from a bike or even a car - which I find significantly less accurate than walking surveys). But I am reluctant to move ways unless I have a GPS survey in which I have confidence (e.g. I know the data point recording frequency and the reported error re the satellite reception). Sorry to ask so many questions but like all innovations - and this one seems potentially very powerful - there are bound to be teething troubles and while I don't want to meddle unnecessarily there are a few issues arising. Cheers - and congratulations to those ho have facilitated this import. Mike Harris ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] NaPTAN bus stop import
Ed Thanks a lot - that is all very clear and helpful and makes perfect sense. I will follow your example. I already tend to average ways where necessary in similar manner to your description and, as I almost always am doing walking surveys, any bus stops that I have manually added have indeed been done stationary at the stop. Kind regards and thanks for the good information Mike Harris > -Original Message- > From: Ed Loach [mailto:e...@loach.me.uk] > Sent: 21 September 2009 10:30 > To: 'Mike Harris'; talk@openstreetmap.org > Subject: RE: [OSM-talk] NaPTAN bus stop import > > Mike asked a few questions about the NaPTAN import. > > There is information on the wiki here: > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/NaPTAN/Surveying_and_Mergin > g_NaPTAN_and_OSM_data > about surveying > (Short: http://is.gd/3w8tv ) > > I've just been updating some stops that I surveyed on the way > to Tesco this morning, and a few I verified when out and > about yesterday. > > I'll try and summarise answers to your questions, based on my > limited understanding. > > The relation is where two stops are known by NaPTAN as a stop > area, and is a relation containing related stops. Usually > these are pairs of stops on opposite sides of the road I > believe, though bus stations (for example) may contain more. > > As you pointed out sometimes the stops are only one side of > the road, and the stop the opposite side is known as a > "customary stop", naptan:BusStopType="CUS". As per the link > above, those CUS stops I've encountered where I've seen a bus > stop (or where the opposite stop is labelled "buses stop here > and opposite") I've been tagging physically_present=no, > highway=bus_stop. > > Where I'd already added bus stops before the import I've been > moving tags to the NaPTAN one (such as shelter=yes, > layby=yes, route_ref=), then deleting my node, and > positioning the NaPTAN node based on the original survey, the > verification survey and the NaPTAN location, averaging the three. > > Your last point, where bus stops import to the wrong side of > ways I've been checking all the public traces available in > JOSM and repositioning the OSM way to the average of those. > If the bus stop is still the wrong side, I nudge it across > presuming sufficient inaccuracy in the NaPTAN data to be the > width of a road out. > > All my verification surveys of bus stops though are done > standing still under the bus stop flag (where present, or > where there is both a flag and an electronic sign, somewhere > between them). > > There is more information about NaPTAN on the wiki, and > discussions on the talk-transit list. I believe that the > import would happen was announced on this list (or maybe > talk-gb) some time ago before talk-transit was started to > discuss how it was to be done. > > Ed > > ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] NaPTAN bus stop import
Mike asked a few questions about the NaPTAN import. There is information on the wiki here: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/NaPTAN/Surveying_and_Merging_NaPTAN_and_OSM_data about surveying (Short: http://is.gd/3w8tv ) I've just been updating some stops that I surveyed on the way to Tesco this morning, and a few I verified when out and about yesterday. I'll try and summarise answers to your questions, based on my limited understanding. The relation is where two stops are known by NaPTAN as a stop area, and is a relation containing related stops. Usually these are pairs of stops on opposite sides of the road I believe, though bus stations (for example) may contain more. As you pointed out sometimes the stops are only one side of the road, and the stop the opposite side is known as a "customary stop", naptan:BusStopType="CUS". As per the link above, those CUS stops I've encountered where I've seen a bus stop (or where the opposite stop is labelled "buses stop here and opposite") I've been tagging physically_present=no, highway=bus_stop. Where I'd already added bus stops before the import I've been moving tags to the NaPTAN one (such as shelter=yes, layby=yes, route_ref=), then deleting my node, and positioning the NaPTAN node based on the original survey, the verification survey and the NaPTAN location, averaging the three. Your last point, where bus stops import to the wrong side of ways I've been checking all the public traces available in JOSM and repositioning the OSM way to the average of those. If the bus stop is still the wrong side, I nudge it across presuming sufficient inaccuracy in the NaPTAN data to be the width of a road out. All my verification surveys of bus stops though are done standing still under the bus stop flag (where present, or where there is both a flag and an electronic sign, somewhere between them). There is more information about NaPTAN on the wiki, and discussions on the talk-transit list. I believe that the import would happen was announced on this list (or maybe talk-gb) some time ago before talk-transit was started to discuss how it was to be done. Ed ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
