Re: [OSM-talk] parcel data in OSM
Christopher Schmidt writes: > On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 11:39:56PM -0800, Sam Vekemans wrote: >> Hi, >> ya, its certainly worth creating a tag proposal page for it. >> I would (imo) would like to see it only rendered when zooming in real close. > > I would disagree that it should be rendered in the main maps at all. > Surveyor data is not interesting to a typical map user, and it is much > better suited for a specialized renderer, not for the general purpose > map browsing that is offered by the main OSM map. That's a fair point, but I've also been thinking about rendering adjusting towards constant details/pixel, putting in more data in less dense places. In Cambridge, MA parcel data would be amazingly cluttered, but out where I am most parcels are > 1 acre and might be interesting esp. at z17. I suppose this really argues for having even easier ways for people to make their own maps from the database, for experimentation and for different needs; I haven't gotten around to setting up pgsql/mapnik/etc. myself. I had already been thinking about trying to enter parcel data for my town. So I think the basic "does it belong" answer is yes. But this raises a few issues: This data will likely be updated by MassGIS and hopefully get better over time. While we want OSMers to be able to edit, it would be really nice to have an automated merge/diff process. It might be useful to design this before doing the big imports since we might want some kind of merge metadata tags. There is the technical issue of database size, with the resulting issues of the size of exports, the size of area downloads for JOSM, etc. Having this data would allow cross-checking of road parcels (or holes) and road centerlines. Not an issue as much as an opportunity for lots of work. pgpoLDxgnVXbo.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] parcel data in OSM
On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 11:39:56PM -0800, Sam Vekemans wrote: > Hi, > ya, its certainly worth creating a tag proposal page for it. > I would (imo) would like to see it only rendered when zooming in real close. I would disagree that it should be rendered in the main maps at all. Surveyor data is not interesting to a typical map user, and it is much better suited for a specialized renderer, not for the general purpose map browsing that is offered by the main OSM map. > Some other renderer might want to see it at a different zoom. > When buying a house, you should know what land your getting :) And you can do that through specizlied applications for house buying (like Zillow). Regards, -- Christopher Schmidt MetaCarta ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Parcel Data in OSM?
On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 07:00:14PM -0500, Christopher Schmidt wrote: > Many city governments in Massachusetts publish their parcel (lot) data > for free reuse, either individually or through MassGIS. This data is > appropriately licensed for re-use in OSM, and is informative -- in most > cases, it has addresses which can be used for geocoding. > > I'm curious as to whether people believe that this data of this type is > appropriate for upload into OSM. Absolutely, this should go into OSM. OSM has developed to include more and more detail over the last years. Its quite common already to have whole cities with every building outline in it. So land parcels is just one more logical step and nothing to be afraid of. Sure it will be a lot of data and not everybody might need it, but until now we have managed to cope with the influx of data quite well. Part of what I find interesting about OSM is the technical challenge of building a scalable, but still open system. We'll cope with land parcel data, too. We should probably only import part of the data at first to gain some experience with handling it, but eventually we are going for world domination anyway. :-) The French are planning to import their country wide land parcel data also... Jochen -- Jochen Topf joc...@remote.org http://www.remote.org/jochen/ +49-721-388298 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Parcel Data in OSM?
If imported to OSM, can we edit parcel data? Is it legally allowed for non-surveyors (in the Philippine we call them Geodetic Engineers) to change parcel geometry and attributes? On Wed, Feb 18, 2009 at 3:14 PM, Russ Nelson wrote: > > On Feb 17, 2009, at 7:00 PM, Christopher Schmidt wrote: >> >> cases, it has addresses which can be used for geocoding > > For completely unrelated reasons (I was searching for an unfinished > railroad and was looking to see if it existed in any property lines) > (no, it didn't) (sigh) I had a copy of the parcel data for Oneida > County, New York. It has the address in a fixed field, along with the > name of the road. It would be trivially easy to set addr:housenumber > and addr:street for the parcel. > > The trouble is that I don't know where in that parcel the building is > to be found. And some parcels are quite strangely shaped, e.g. two > squares overlapping only at a corner. And then the street name and > the TIGER street name vary wildly, e.g. tiger:name_base="State Highway > 13" and ocgov:loc_st_nam=Nys Rt 13" (or in another record, "State > Route 13 N"). The latter only matters if the property is on a corner. > > I've noticed that the road is considered to be "unowned", so there's > only one way connecting those nodes. Thus, I'll look for the nodes > with only one way, and tag the center of those nodes with the > address. Might employ some heuristic to guess which road if multiple > roads are found. > > -- > Russ Nelson - http://community.cloudmade.com/blog - > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:RussNelson > r...@cloudmade.com - http://openstreetmap.org/user/RussNelson > > > ___ > talk mailing list > talk@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk > -- cheers, maning -- "Freedom is still the most radical idea of all" -N.Branden wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ -- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] parcel data in OSM
Hi, ya, its certainly worth creating a tag proposal page for it. I would (imo) would like to see it only rendered when zooming in real close. Some other renderer might want to see it at a different zoom. When buying a house, you should know what land your getting :) p.s. I think a variation of that is available on Geobase for Canada :-) ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Parcel Data in OSM?
On Feb 17, 2009, at 7:00 PM, Christopher Schmidt wrote: > > cases, it has addresses which can be used for geocoding For completely unrelated reasons (I was searching for an unfinished railroad and was looking to see if it existed in any property lines) (no, it didn't) (sigh) I had a copy of the parcel data for Oneida County, New York. It has the address in a fixed field, along with the name of the road. It would be trivially easy to set addr:housenumber and addr:street for the parcel. The trouble is that I don't know where in that parcel the building is to be found. And some parcels are quite strangely shaped, e.g. two squares overlapping only at a corner. And then the street name and the TIGER street name vary wildly, e.g. tiger:name_base="State Highway 13" and ocgov:loc_st_nam=Nys Rt 13" (or in another record, "State Route 13 N"). The latter only matters if the property is on a corner. I've noticed that the road is considered to be "unowned", so there's only one way connecting those nodes. Thus, I'll look for the nodes with only one way, and tag the center of those nodes with the address. Might employ some heuristic to guess which road if multiple roads are found. -- Russ Nelson - http://community.cloudmade.com/blog - http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:RussNelson r...@cloudmade.com - http://openstreetmap.org/user/RussNelson ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Parcel Data in OSM?
On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 7:00 PM, Christopher Schmidt wrote: > Hi, > > Many city governments in Massachusetts publish their parcel (lot) data > for free reuse, either individually or through MassGIS. This data is > appropriately licensed for re-use in OSM, and is informative -- in most > cases, it has addresses which can be used for geocoding. > > I'm curious as to whether people believe that this data of this type is > appropriate for upload into OSM. > > There are clear technical reasons why this data might not belong in OSM > -- the quantity of data is significant, and you can imagine that it > could create a much larger database. At the moment, I'd rather address > the social aspect of whether this data is appropriate to upload to OSM. > > A description of the data in question with regard to MassGIS is > available at: > > http://www.mass.gov/mgis/parcels.htm > > Looking forward to hearing any and all opinions on this matter. I'd say the address data definitely while the parcel data might be too micro at this junction. However, the parcel is closely bound to the address and it may be very difficult to associate an area currently in OSM with the address without the parcels. It seems like it comes down to whether or not the parcels are acceptable. Cheers, Adam ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Parcel Data in OSM?
Property boundaries are definitely something that belongs in OSM, it's just boundary=administrative at a different level. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Parcel Data in OSM?
On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 6:00 PM, Christopher Schmidt < crschm...@metacarta.com> wrote: > Hi, > > Many city governments in Massachusetts publish their parcel (lot) data > for free reuse, either individually or through MassGIS. > In my quest to find free data to import in the US, I discovered that parcel data is almost universally available for free for almost every local jurisdiction I checked (released for tax purposes). Point is that this could potentially be a *lot* of data. It certainly would be very interesting to see, though! ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
