Re: [OSM-talk] Recent changes to slippymap Mapnik rendering
Apologies if someone's mentioned it already, but I'd like to express my appreciation for the new symbol for a barrier across the road. A simple line is exactly what it should be; a letter G in the middle of the road was rather confusing! ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Recent changes to slippymap Mapnik rendering
David Ebling wrote: -Primary, trunk and secondary roads have no casing on them. This makes road junctions into a big mess, and you can't see what's what at all. I believe Steve has already says he plans to reintroduce more casings. -The road refs aren't centred properly in their boxes. This looks really poor. Also, they aren't as clear as the used to be. This isn't really new - they have never been very good. We think it is some sort of pixel rounding issue in mapnik because sometimes it is better than others. The side effect is that the shield can't be shrunk as much as I would like as we have to allow space for the text to wander around a bit inside the shield. The real answer is for somebody to implement support for vector symbols and shields in mapnik anyway ;-) -Train stations were better in red than blue, as they stood out better. Again, I find the new colour too pale. This one I definitely agree with. I much preferred the old station symbols. Tom -- Tom Hughes ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) http://www.compton.nu/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Recent changes to slippymap Mapnik rendering
Is there anywhere I can find the stylesheet used for the main Mapnik layer? - Gustav ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Recent changes to slippymap Mapnik rendering
Gustav Foseid wrote: Is there anywhere I can find the stylesheet used for the main Mapnik layer? http://svn.openstreetmap.org/applications/rendering/mapnik/ osm-template-fontset.xml AFAIK. I also think you also need the latest SVN mapnik. / Grant ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Recent changes to slippymap Mapnik rendering
On Wed, Oct 29, 2008 at 3:52 PM, David Ebling [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've noticed a lot of changes to the Mapnik slippymap rendering lately, and IMHO they are mainly not improvements. As the appearance of this map layer has a large impact on the public face of OSM, I think it's important to have lots of people discuss their views on this. Personally I don't like many of the recent changes because: -Everything's in pastel shades. Bold colours are clearer and look better. -Primary, trunk and secondary roads have no casing on them. This makes road junctions into a big mess, and you can't see what's what at all. -New icons are a bit pale. I think the old ones looked better. Although I can see reasons for making them smaller, I don't think they are as clear. -The road refs aren't centred properly in their boxes. This looks really poor. Also, they aren't as clear as the used to be. -Train stations were better in red than blue, as they stood out better. Again, I find the new colour too pale. -Road widths at z=17 seem too wide relative to other zoom levels. I appreciate the effort people are putting into trying to make the map look as good as possible, but I think we need more opinion input and discussion on what looks best. I'm really looking to spark discussion here, rather than be critical, though unfortunately all of my comments happen to be negative. Here are some positives (they're not that hard to find): - Colour scheme is now much more consistent - Icons are all the same size and style, and cover more POI types - POIs are carefully introduced to avoid clutter at lower zoom levels - The new styles emphasise main roads above other features much less -- OSM is about more than mapping main roads and the new styles serve to highlight the detail instead of the traditional dominant features. - Related to above, cycleways, footways, bridle paths are now much clearer relative to other features - Bridges are much clearer Dave ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Recent changes to slippymap Mapnik rendering
On Wed, Oct 29, 2008 at 3:52 PM, David Ebling [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As the appearance of this map layer has a large impact on the public face of OSM, I think it's important to have lots of people discuss their views on this. It's helpful up to a point, but there's a certain amount of art to cartography, and things can be changed without being technically better or worse, just different. And in much of this I'm quite happy to defer to Steve Chilton, what with him being a professional and all of us (myself included) being new to the game. -Everything's in pastel shades. Bold colours are clearer and look better. -Primary, trunk and secondary roads have no casing on them. This makes road junctions into a big mess, and you can't see what's what at all. -Road widths at z=17 seem too wide relative to other zoom levels. I disagree, but these are all judgement calls. -New icons are a bit pale. I think the old ones looked better. Although I can see reasons for making them smaller, I don't think they are as clear. -Train stations were better in red than blue, as they stood out better. Again, I find the new colour too pale. I agree, but again these are judgement calls. -The road refs aren't centred properly in their boxes. This looks really poor. Also, they aren't as clear as the used to be. Actually a technical issue, so this time not a judgement call :-) This is the only thing which isn't really an opinion! I would go ahead and make what I think are improvements myself, but I don't know anything about tweaking rendering styles. I'd encourage you to learn - it takes a while, but it's not insurmountable. I know from experience that it takes a lot of effort to make OSM stylesheets, but more hands to the pump are welcome. All the instructions needed for setting up a test mapnik server are on the wiki (if they aren't, I'll fix them), and you can put some of your suggestions into practice and see what they look like. Discussions such as yours are even more valuable if they are accompanied by screenshots and diffs. Cheers, Andy ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Recent changes to slippymap Mapnik rendering
-The road refs aren't centred properly in their boxes. This looks really poor. Also, they aren't as clear as the used to be. Actually a technical issue, so this time not a judgement call :-) This is the only thing which isn't really an opinion! I'm currently trying to add options to mapnik to allow this to be resolved, see also: https://trac.mapnik.org/ticket/104 ETA for a patch is this weekend but then it will have to be accepted, tested, rolled out, etc... -- Brian ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Recent changes to slippymap Mapnik rendering
Brian Quinion wrote: -The road refs aren't centred properly in their boxes. This looks really poor. Also, they aren't as clear as the used to be. Actually a technical issue, so this time not a judgement call :-) This is the only thing which isn't really an opinion! I'm currently trying to add options to mapnik to allow this to be resolved, see also: https://trac.mapnik.org/ticket/104 ETA for a patch is this weekend but then it will have to be accepted, tested, rolled out, etc... That ticket has nothing to do with the problem we're discussing here ;-) The ticket is about how a shield is positioned relative to a POI, but we're talking about the positioning of text relative to the shield symbol that surrounds it. We don't use shields for POIs anyway, only for linear objects like roads, so the issue in the ticket won't affect us at all as far as I can see. Tom -- Tom Hughes ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) http://www.compton.nu/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Recent changes to slippymap Mapnik rendering
I'm really looking to spark discussion here, rather than be critical, though unfortunately all of my comments happen to be negative. Here are some positives (they're not that hard to find): - Colour scheme is now much more consistent Consistently bland. =( -- OSM is about more than mapping main roads and the new styles serve to highlight the detail instead of the traditional dominant features. This is a huge positive, important to mention. FWIW, I've been working on my own stylesheets that I've posted here before. Here are some comparisons to regular OSM: http://s3.amazonaws.com/mike.teczno.com-img/osm-comparisons-20081029/bayarea-low.png http://s3.amazonaws.com/mike.teczno.com-img/osm-comparisons-20081029/bayarea-medium.png http://s3.amazonaws.com/mike.teczno.com-img/osm-comparisons-20081029/bayarea-high.png http://s3.amazonaws.com/mike.teczno.com-img/osm-comparisons-20081029/osm-low.png http://s3.amazonaws.com/mike.teczno.com-img/osm-comparisons-20081029/osm-medium.png http://s3.amazonaws.com/mike.teczno.com-img/osm-comparisons-20081029/osm-high.png An actual slippy map is available here, under OpenStreetMap: http://teczno.com/old-oakland/ I've similarly been trying to place greater emphasis on non-road features, esp. rail, schools, and parks. I think I'm also a little closer to the mark with road shields and choice of place names. I'm missing airports and forests entirely. Recently, I added a few of Matt Amos' excellent icons with more on the way for amenities etc.. I've also opted for a more US-centric rendering style that puts freeways in red and places less emphasis on primary and secondary roads (which don't have quite the same definite meaning here as in the UK, I believe). The stylesheets are controlled through a pre-processor I've been working on called Cascadenik: http://code.google.com/p/mapnik-utils/ ...with the actual stylesheets here: http://mapnik-utils.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/serverside/cascadenik/openstreetmap/ I believe the cascadenik stylesheets might be easier for a newcomer to modify than the pure mapnik ones, and I'd be interested in exploring a way to vary the road color rendering among countries. I know that there are different cartographic conventions everywhere, it'd be interesting to see OSM support these. -mike. michal migurski- [EMAIL PROTECTED] 415.558.1610 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Recent changes to slippymap Mapnik rendering
resolved, see also: https://trac.mapnik.org/ticket/104 That ticket has nothing to do with the problem we're discussing here ;-) The ticket is about how a shield is positioned relative to a POI, but we're talking about the positioning of text relative to the shield symbol that surrounds it. Um - no the ticket is regarding position shield and text relative to each other. Offsetting relative to the POI is already pressent in mapnik. While the ticket creator wanted it for a different purpose (placing text under a symbol) it can also be used to apply an small vertical offset in this cases as well to correct the text placement. Of course this assumes Steve/Other doesn't find an alternative fix from the xml before that. We don't use shields for POIs anyway, only for linear objects like roads, so the issue in the ticket won't affect us at all as far as I can see. Probably the case. -- Brian ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
