Re: [OSM-talk] Villain?
> I came to the OSM project to help create a better map of the world, not > to be insulted. Please remove the page > http://matt.dev.openstreetmap.org/dupe_nodes/heroes.html immediately. Not only that, but more than one 'hero' belongs in the 'villain' category for blind and ill-considered duplicate elimination, causing a hopeless tangle of map elements which makes proper editing difficult to impossible. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Villain?
El 14/05/2010 14:25, Mike N. escribió: >> I came to the OSM project to help create a better map of the world, not >> to be insulted. Please remove the page >> http://matt.dev.openstreetmap.org/dupe_nodes/heroes.html immediately. > >Not only that, but more than one 'hero' belongs in the 'villain' category > for blind and ill-considered duplicate elimination, causing a hopeless > tangle of map elements which makes proper editing difficult to impossible. So what about creating a new, better dupe node count tool? You could use whatever dupe deletion method you'd like, and use fancy wording that doesn't offend anyone. -- Iván Sánchez Ortega ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Villain?
Nakor, Nakor wrote: > I came to the OSM project to help create a better map of the world, not > to be insulted. Please remove the page > http://matt.dev.openstreetmap.org/dupe_nodes/heroes.html immediately. The page is helpful and should not be removed. To be less offensive, one could replace the phrase "Villains: Users who have created the most duplicate nodes, since the count was started. Boo!" by "The following users have created the most duplicate nodes since the count was started. If you are on this list, something is seriously wrong with either your software or your workflow, and you should talk to other mappers to help you fix it." Bye Frederik ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Villain?
On 14 May 2010 14:25, Mike N. wrote: > Not only that, but more than one 'hero' belongs in the 'villain' category > for blind and ill-considered duplicate elimination, causing a hopeless > tangle of map elements which makes proper editing difficult to impossible. At least there are no duplicates on the heroes / villains lists individually :) I like the list to be there. I wonder though if your hero points can subtract from your villain points. Cheers, a villain ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Villain?
On 5/14/2010 8:31 AM, Frederik Ramm wrote: > "The following users have created the most duplicate nodes since the > count was started. If you are on this list, something is seriously > wrong with either your software or your workflow, and you should talk > to other mappers to help you fix it." > I take you to the word. Can you please help me finding out what in the software I use (JOSM) and/or my workflow is "seriously wrong"? Thanks in advance, N. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Villain?
Frederik Ramm wrote: > Nakor wrote: > > I came to the OSM project to help create a better map of the world, not > > to be insulted. Please remove the page > > http://matt.dev.openstreetmap.org/dupe_nodes/heroes.html immediately. > > The page is helpful and should not be removed. > > To be less offensive, one could replace the phrase "Villains: Users who > have created the most duplicate nodes, since the count was started. > Boo!" by "The following users have created the most duplicate nodes > since the count was started. If you are on this list, something is > seriously wrong with either your software or your workflow, and you > should talk to other mappers to help you fix it." It's not so simple. This changeset: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/4300452 made me a "villain" when I selectively undid a so-called hero's indiscriminate joining of highways to boundaries, power lines, and pipelines: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/4175719 . Of course it was useless, since another "hero" later came along and screwed it up again: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/4385668 (Apparently I'm now a "hero" - maybe I should do another unjoining so I can be on both lists.) ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Villain?
It seems I'm a villain too although it's news to me. Thinking about it, it must be from copying and pasting some OS VectorMap polygons between .osm layers in JOSM over the last couple of weeks. JOSM seems to create the nodes for the polygon and then create them again with the way if that makes any sense. If that is the case then maybe the JOSM guys could look into it as it wasn't obvious to me at least that this was happening. Kevin On 14 May 2010 14:18, Nathan Edgars II wrote: > Frederik Ramm wrote: > > Nakor wrote: > > > I came to the OSM project to help create a better map of the world, not > > > to be insulted. Please remove the page > > > http://matt.dev.openstreetmap.org/dupe_nodes/heroes.html immediately. > > > > The page is helpful and should not be removed. > > > > To be less offensive, one could replace the phrase "Villains: Users who > > have created the most duplicate nodes, since the count was started. > > Boo!" by "The following users have created the most duplicate nodes > > since the count was started. If you are on this list, something is > > seriously wrong with either your software or your workflow, and you > > should talk to other mappers to help you fix it." > > It's not so simple. This changeset: > http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/4300452 made me a > "villain" when I selectively undid a so-called hero's indiscriminate > joining of highways to boundaries, power lines, and pipelines: > http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/4175719 . Of course it > was useless, since another "hero" later came along and screwed it up > again: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/4385668 > > (Apparently I'm now a "hero" - maybe I should do another unjoining so > I can be on both lists.) > > ___ > talk mailing list > talk@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk > ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Villain?
On Friday 14 May 2010 15:03:25 Nakor wrote: > I take you to the word. Can you please help me finding out what in the > software I use (JOSM) and/or my workflow is "seriously wrong"? Not running the Validator plugin frequently enough. It detects, warns, and helps fix duplicated nodes. -- -- Iván Sánchez Ortega Aviso: Este e-mail es confidencial y no debería ser usado por nadie que no sea el destinatario original. No se permite la reproducción mediante fotocopia, walkie-talkie, emisora de radioaficionado, satélite, televisión por cable, proyector, señales de humo, código morse, braille, lenguaje de signos, taquigrafía o cualquier otro medio. Bajo ningún concepto debe traducirse al francés este e-mail. Este e-mail no puede ser ridiculizado, parodiado, juzgado en una competición, o leído en voz alta con un acento gracioso llevando un bigote falso y/o cualquier tipo de sombrero, incluyendo pero no limitándose a pañuelos. No inciten ni provoquen a este e-mail. Si está medicándose, puede experimentar nauseas, desorientación, histeria, vómitos, pérdida temporal de la memoria a corto plazo y malestar general al leer este e-mail. Consulte a su médico o farmacéutico antes de leer este e-mail. Todas las modelos descritas en este e-mail son mayores de 18 años. Este e-mail se reserva el derecho de admisión. Si ha recibido este e-mail por error es probablemente porque estaba borracho cuando escribí la dirección del destinatario. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Villain?
Am 14.05.2010 16:02, Kevin Peat: > It seems I'm a villain too although it's news to me. > > Thinking about it, it must be from copying and pasting some OS VectorMap > polygons between .osm layers in JOSM over the last couple of weeks. JOSM > seems to create the nodes for the polygon and then create them again > with the way if that makes any sense. > > If that is the case then maybe the JOSM guys could look into it as it > wasn't obvious to me at least that this was happening. Did you download all existing data in that area and run the validator before uploading your data? This should have told you with a red "No entry" sign in it's report that you were about to upload duplicate nodes. Claudius ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Villain?
> Did you download all existing data in that area and run the validator > before uploading your data? This should have told you with a red "No > entry" sign in it's report that you were about to upload duplicate nodes. > Claudius > > Most of the time I use the feature to download around my GPS tracks and expect it to download everything. The thing is unfortunately the validator gives a lot of false positives (at least here in the US) and if you blindly merge all nodes you end up stiching together a bridge and the road/river/train track going underneath to name a few. This is due to the way the data imports coming from TIGER use nodes at the same position for a lot of different things. I have effectively being fixing some of those blind merges, as part of other edits, and I do not see why I should be called a villain for this where I actually FIXED data. Thanks, N. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Villain?
Iván Sánchez Ortega writes: > On Friday 14 May 2010 15:03:25 Nakor wrote: >> I take you to the word. Can you please help me finding out what in the >> software I use (JOSM) and/or my workflow is "seriously wrong"? > > Not running the Validator plugin frequently enough. It detects, warns, and > helps fix duplicated nodes. And not updating the area first before running the Validator and uploading. An easy way to create duplicate objects with JOSM is to create new objects, save the layer to disk, upload to API and then close JOSM without saving the layer again (because I just saved it and didn't change anything, silly JOSM!). When loading the file again JOSM treats these objects still as new and happily uploads them again at the next opportunity. Aborted uploads can have similar effects when the data was accepted by the server but the server response did not make it back to JOSM. The reason behind all this is that the API server is assigning the IDs for new objects and returns them to the software which in turn needs to update its local data. Matthias ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Villain?
Nathan Edgars II writes: > It's not so simple. This changeset: > http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/4300452 made me a > "villain" when I selectively undid a so-called hero's indiscriminate > joining of highways to boundaries, power lines, and pipelines: > http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/4175719 . Of course it > was useless, since another "hero" later came along and screwed it up > again: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/4385668 > > (Apparently I'm now a "hero" - maybe I should do another unjoining so > I can be on both lists.) It is probably good practice when disjoining two ways to move one node off to the side a little bit in order to not create duplicate nodes. Matthias ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Villain?
On Fri, May 14, 2010 at 3:18 PM, Nathan Edgars II wrote: > It's not so simple. This changeset: > http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/4300452 made me a > "villain" when I selectively undid a so-called hero's indiscriminate > joining of highways to boundaries, power lines, and pipelines: You mean something like this ? http://www.jacarandafm.com/kagiso/content/en/jacaranda/jacaranda-news?oid=571531&sn=Detail&pid=399938 > http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/4175719 . Of course it > was useless, since another "hero" later came along and screwed it up > again: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/4385668 > > (Apparently I'm now a "hero" - maybe I should do another unjoining so > I can be on both lists.) > > ___ > talk mailing list > talk@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk > ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Villain?
On Fri, May 14, 2010 at 1:09 PM, Nakor wrote: > >> Did you download all existing data in that area and run the validator >> before uploading your data? This should have told you with a red "No >> entry" sign in it's report that you were about to upload duplicate nodes. I suspect the algorithm that's used to determine what is duplicate is simply overly-sensitive. In the datasets I'm working with, I'm simplifying and validating data before submission. > The thing is unfortunately the validator gives a lot of false positives > (at least here in the US) and if you blindly merge all nodes you end up > stiching together a bridge and the road/river/train track going > underneath to name a few. +1 > from TIGER use nodes at the same position for a lot of different things. > I have effectively being fixing some of those blind merges, as part of > other edits, and I do not see why I should be called a villain for this > where I actually FIXED data. Yes, I've been fixing some imported data too. I am not sure how to react to being on the vilian list, other than knowing I'm in good company with Nakor and wonderchook. My suggestions: 1) Please reword the list to not have judgemental label on it. "just the facts" 2) Explain the algorithm. Are you looking for duplicated nodes litterally by "nodes which are on top of one another" or something more loose? 3) For those of us who have duplicated nodes still around, make it easy to download the list and examine it. You're already compiling the data- just make it available as an OSM file for us to look at in our favorite OSM editor, please. - Serge ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Villain?
Hi, Nakor wrote: > This is due to the way the data imports coming > from TIGER use nodes at the same position for a lot of different things. > I have effectively being fixing some of those blind merges, as part of > other edits, and I do not see why I should be called a villain for this > where I actually FIXED data. Unless a river changes direction (or properties) exactly where the bridge crosses over it, the river does not need - and indeed should not have - a node just under the bridge, and unless the bridge is curved/angled, it will not need a node just over the river also. The same is true for power lines. I know that the TIGER import was funny in this regard, and it is definitely wrong to join such two nodes, and also wrong for the validator to highlight them as a problem. But if you see such constructs, or even create them by untangling two nodes someone else has erroneously merged, please rectify the situation in a way that does not leave two nodes at the exact same spot. This will only cause the whole thing to repeat itself - plus it is more difficult to edit (how do you grab the "lower" of the two nodes to move it?). Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09" E008°23'33" ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Villain?
On 5/15/2010 7:01 AM, Frederik Ramm wrote: > But if you see such constructs, or even create them by untangling two > nodes someone else has erroneously merged, please rectify the > situation in a way that does not leave two nodes at the exact same > spot. This will only cause the whole thing to repeat itself - plus it > is more difficult to edit (how do you grab the "lower" of the two > nodes to move it?). > > Bye > Frederik > Be assured that whenever I add bridges where there was two nodes at the same position. I (re)move the nodes that are at the same position. Thanks, N. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Villain?
On Sat, May 15, 2010 at 11:44 AM, Serge Wroclawski wrote: > My suggestions: > > 1) Please reword the list to not have judgemental label on it. "just the > facts" i've removed the list. it was intended as a bit of fun, certainly not to offend anyone and i honestly didn't expect anyone who wasn't doing bulk imports to end up on the villains list. by way of explanation, "villain" is a kind of old-fashioned word in modern british usage - i definitely didn't mean criminal. apologies to anyone who was offended. > 2) Explain the algorithm. Are you looking for duplicated nodes > litterally by "nodes which are on top of one another" or something > more loose? it's as simple as two nodes having exactly the same lat/lon, as explained on these pages: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Duplicate_nodes_map http://matt.dev.openstreetmap.org/dupe_nodes/about.html#wtf > 3) For those of us who have duplicated nodes still around, make it > easy to download the list and examine it. You're already compiling the > data- just make it available as an OSM file for us to look at in our > favorite OSM editor, please. the whole thing is offline right now anyway, but when i get it back online i'll add your suggestion to the TODO list. it's unlikely to be a downloadable file (kinda the whole point was that it should be minutely-up-to-date), but something like a map call should be possible. or to hook it into a larger OSM bug-tracking system like OSB if it's able to handle the millions of points... cheers, matt ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Villain?
Matt, Many thanks. Hopefully the tool can be back improved with all the suggestions that have been posted to this list. N. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
