[talk-au] Rivers
I recently started adding data to OSM, but one thing that caused me a little confusion was the fact that one of the towns I was mapping round has a river running through it, but there is no river plotted on the map, and now that I think about it some of the dams don't have rivers/water ways showing around them either. It makes the map slightly disorientating since the water way is used as a major landmark etc. I'm still scratching my head over the best way to map abandoned railway track, and have no idea where or how to best map water ways/rivers. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Rivers
Delta Foxtrot > I recently started adding data to OSM, Welcome. > but one thing that caused me > a little confusion was the fact that one of the towns I was mapping > round has a river running through it, but there is no river plotted > on the map, and now that I think about it some of the dams don't > have rivers/water ways showing around them either. Waterways should be mapped Sometimes landsat or yahoo imagery can help. Sometime the ABS suburb/town divisions follow a waterway. Probably best to use a single way, waterway=river tag to start with, and move on when you are more familiar to mapping the area. It is also sometime possible to map rivers through towns by interpolation - it runs halfway between two streets etc. Be sure to mark its source as interpolation, so someone with a more accurate source can adjust later if required. > I'm still scratching my head over the best way to map abandoned > railway track, and have no idea where or how to best map water ways/rivers. Tag abandnoed railways with railway=disused (provided the track & stuff is still there). It is a fairly common tag in OSM. Hope this helps. Fill in the bits you can, and you (or someone else) can work to filling in the gaps.. Ian. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Rivers
--- On Tue, 19/5/09, Ian Sergeant wrote: > Waterways should be mapped Sometimes > landsat or yahoo imagery can help. What's the url for landsat or how do I make use of it, yahoo images are pretty course in rural areas from what I've seen so far. > Sometime the ABS suburb/town divisions follow a > waterway. Probably best to Not sure if it's rounding or the object they are following has moved or what not, but the ABS boundaries go close but not always the same as the boundary they follow. > use a single way, waterway=river tag to start with, and > move on when you > are more familiar to mapping the area. It is also > sometime possible to map > rivers through towns by interpolation - it runs halfway > between two streets > etc. Be sure to mark its source as interpolation, so > someone with a more > accurate source can adjust later if required. The river runs through this town and divides it in half so that isn't the issue, getting something on the map that looks like it is. > Tag abandnoed railways with railway=disused (provided the > track & stuff is > still there). It is a fairly common tag in OSM. Yes the track is still there, but hasn't been used in a decade or more, it's not the tag I'm having trouble with but getting data about where the track is to map it. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Rivers
Delta Foxtrot wrote: > What's the url for landsat or how do I make use of it, yahoo images > are pretty course in rural areas from what I've seen so far. They are. I guess this is one of the reasons why your waterway hasn't been mapped. If you are using potlatch, then the options menu allows you to select a background layer. Don't count on landsat being acccurate enough for your purposes either. > Not sure if it's rounding or the object they are following has moved > or what not, but the ABS boundaries go close but not always the same > as the boundary they follow. Also true - but this doesn't necessarily stop them being useful. > The river runs through this town and divides it in half so that > isn't the issue, getting something on the map that looks like it is. So what is the problem you are having, if not with the location or the tag? If you know where it is, and you know how to tag it, then you are surely 99% of the way there? > Yes the track is still there, but hasn't been used in a decade or > more, it's not the tag I'm having trouble with but getting data > about where the track is to map it. Welcome to OSM. You can use the imagery available, you can walk the line with a GPS, you can find and interpolate from surrounding features, points, or a combination of the above. You can find an out of copyright map from when the railway was built, which may be able to use to map the route once you have one or two points. What is the town you are mapping? Ian. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Rivers
--- On Tue, 19/5/09, Ian Sergeant wrote: > If you are using potlatch, then the options menu allows you > to select a > background layer. Don't count on landsat being > acccurate enough for your > purposes either. landsat doesn't seem to be an option, unless I'm over looking something, only yahoo a few OSM options out of copyright and open topo. > So what is the problem you are having, if not with the > location or the tag? Making a river look like a river... > Welcome to OSM. You can use the imagery available, > you can walk the line I'm not quite fit enough to walk/run the 130+ km of track :) > with a GPS, you can find and interpolate from surrounding > features, points, > or a combination of the above. You can find an out of > copyright map from > when the railway was built, which may be able to use to map > the route once > you have one or two points. The line shows on parish maps, I'll have to try and get access to them from the library or something. > What is the town you are mapping? Inverell, NSW Not 100% sure if what I've done so far is right or not, but there was only a handful of streets when I started. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Rivers
Delta Foxtrot wrote on 20/05/2009 10:27:35 AM: > landsat doesn't seem to be an option, unless I'm over looking > something, only yahoo a few OSM options out of copyright and open topo. I hadn't tried it for a while, but it appears that you are correct. From reading a few emails, it appears the NASA server no longer serves these kinds of requests. However, looking at the best yahoo imagery for inverell, it looks around the same quality as landsat anyway. You may want to consider JOSM. It allows you to lock the imagery scale at the best available, and then zoom in. Sometimes that makes things easier, and I'm not sure if potlatch can do that. Still, I would have thought that survey and interpolation would give you the best result on the sections on the river that go through the town. > > So what is the problem you are having, if not with the > > location or the tag? > Making a river look like a river... Looks kinda like a river to me. A bit angular, so maybe a few more nodes on the way would help? If you want to make the water areas behind the weirs, you can tag the node as a weir, and then draw the water area as a polygon. I would leave the river running down the centre, and mark the "lake" area polygons with natural=water. You can also use waterway=riverbank to draw a wider river. See how other people have tagged other rivers. > I'm not quite fit enough to walk/run the 130+ km of track :) > The line shows on parish maps, I'll have to try and get access to > them from the library or something. I guess I can reassure you that I'm not aware of an easy way you are missing. There are still railway lines missing from OSM that are hard to see from landsat. I've mapped a couple by survey, but that is harder when there is no train running on the line. Aerial imagery, survey, or out of copyright maps are really the way that just about all of Australia has been mapped up until now. Find a local fitness fanantic with an interest in old railways, and tie a GPS to them for a couple of days.. If anyone else has another source for abandoned railways in NSW, I'm sure they can jump in. > Not 100% sure if what I've done so far is right or not, but there > was only a handful of streets when I started. looks okay. Ian. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Rivers
> >> So what is the problem you are having, if not with the >> location or the tag? > > Making a river look like a river... Put more nodes in the way that shows the river. Had a look at what you have done but given the lack of hi-res images from yahoo there is not much else that can be done. >> Welcome to OSM. You can use the imagery available, >> you can walk the line > > I'm not quite fit enough to walk/run the 130+ km of track :) Find where roads cross the railway and note these as gps points then interpolate between them. >> with a GPS, you can find and interpolate from surrounding >> features, points, >> or a combination of the above. You can find an out of >> copyright map from >> when the railway was built, which may be able to use to map >> the route once >> you have one or two points. > > The line shows on parish maps, I'll have to try and get access to them > from the library or something. Be careful of copyright issues. >> What is the town you are mapping? > > Inverell, NSW > > Not 100% sure if what I've done so far is right or not, but there was only > a handful of streets when I started. Please include a source tag eg source=survey so when someone else comes along they can update if better info available. -- Cheers Ross ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Rivers
--- On Tue, 19/5/09, Ross Scanlon wrote: > Put more nodes in the way that shows the river. Had a > look at what you > have done but given the lack of hi-res images from yahoo > there is not much > else that can be done. I'm curious as to why yahoo sat images can be used and google ones can't? I've added additional points. > Find where roads cross the railway and note these as gps > points then > interpolate between them. Something is better than nothing I guess. > Be careful of copyright issues. I'm aware of the copyright issues, in fact it's due to those issues that I'm spending considerable time/effort supporting OSM. > Please include a source tag eg source=survey so when > someone else comes > along they can update if better info available. After doing a run to capture GPS information I now have a much better idea software wise of what to code for my phone to make it more useful for OSM. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Rivers
--- On Tue, 19/5/09, Ian Sergeant wrote: > You may want to consider JOSM. It allows you to lock > the imagery scale at > the best available, and then zoom in. Sometimes that > makes things easier, > and I'm not sure if potlatch can do that. Still, I > would have thought that > survey and interpolation would give you the best result on > the sections on > the river that go through the town. I tried JSOM briefly the other day but the entire background was black and made it harder to use than potlach. > Find a local fitness fanantic with an interest in old > railways, and tie a > GPS to them for a couple of days.. Most of them ride push bikes on the roads around here, plus the grass is a tad high along most of it 1m+ high. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Rivers
Delta Foxtrot wrote: > I'm curious as to why yahoo sat images can be used and google ones can't? Yahoo have sent an OSM contributor an email, confirming that their imagery is okay for use in the way OSM uses it. Google have not given their permission, and have given informal statements to the effect that they cannot. Their terms of use would seem to forbid it, and since OSM may ultimately be viewed as a threat by commercial people who own the copyright in the google information, OSM plays it safe. Ian. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Rivers
--- On Tue, 19/5/09, Ross Scanlon wrote: > The source tag is part of the OSM data not part of the GPS > information, > have a look at the source tag on Glen Innes Road. I thought information could be included in the GPX files that would be imported by something, JOSM or OSM itself? > I use a GPS watch and/or dedicated vehicle pc, both capture > 1 second data. > I then use JOSM to rationalise the data before uploading > to osm. ATM I'm using a smart phone with some software I coded up for a completely diff purpose to capture the GPS info once a second, but now I have a better understanding of what is needed to make it more useful for OSM purposes. > Another point with your street ways is they need to have > nodes where > streets cross not just at T intersections eg at the > intersection of George > and O'Connor Streets, I have put it in to show you what I > mean. I wasn't sure what was best, thanks for pointing that out to me. > Also don't use abbreviations, eg is st. for street or > saint. Spell it out > in full, have a look at: > > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Editing_Standards_and_Conventions I came across that last night, too much information to digest in a short period of time, I've been correcting some of my eariler edits. > Roundabouts. Here we go again;) > > Have a read of this: > > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Roundabouts It would be nice to have options of various sized round about icons, similar to how google depicts these round abouts on their map. > Having said that I have since found a mini-roundabout in > Mackay, next time > I'm there I'll take a photo and post it to the mailing > list. It is just > "a low dome" approximately 1m in diameter with appropriate > signage. There is/was several of those in Sydney, as long as you don't get caught they were fun to jump on motorbikes... ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Rivers
> --- On Tue, 19/5/09, Ross Scanlon wrote: > >> The source tag is part of the OSM data not part of the GPS >> information, >> have a look at the source tag on Glen Innes Road. > > I thought information could be included in the GPX files that would be > imported by something, JOSM or OSM itself? AFAIK it is only lat, long and elevation data. How did you enter the name and surface tags for the ways. The source tag is the same. >> Roundabouts. Here we go again;) >> >> Have a read of this: >> >> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Roundabouts > > It would be nice to have options of various sized round about icons, > similar to how google depicts these round abouts on their map. I could say something like that's google and not osm but have a look at the roundabouts below: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=-20.40263&lon=148.58529&zoom=17&layers=B000FTF As you zoom in you will see them change, these are drawn in roundabouts. Here is the same area in google maps. http://maps.google.com.au/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=proserpine,+qld&sll=-20.401636,148.581496&sspn=0.121796,0.153809&g=proserpine,+qld&ie=UTF8&ll=-20.402619,148.583221&spn=0.015224,0.019226&z=16 Works basically the same. Your gpx files should give you the correct sizes to make the roundabouts. -- Cheers Ross ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Rivers
--- On Wed, 20/5/09, Ross Scanlon wrote: > AFAIK it is only lat, long and elevation data. How > did you enter the name > and surface tags for the ways. The source tag is the > same. GPX files can contain a lot of data and meta data, the schema for GPX 1.1 can be found here: http://www.topografix.com/GPX/1/1 > I could say something like that's google and not osm but > > have a look at the roundabouts below: I've drawn, probably wrong, at least one round about already, but that isn't what I meant, I meant for uniform round abouts a few different round about sizes would make less work for people. > Your gpx files should give you the correct sizes to make > the roundabouts. GPS can be a car width or more wrong, although the more GPS tracks you can start applying averaging etc. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Rivers
--- On Tue, 19/5/09, Ian Sergeant wrote: > I would leave the river running down the centre, and mark > the "lake" area > polygons with natural=water. You can also > use waterway=riverbank to draw > a wider river. See how other people have tagged other > rivers. Just looking at, I think, the Clarence river near Grafton: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=-29.6174&lon=152.9053&zoom=14&layers=B000FTF The river banks are listed as natural=coastline Which is the better/correct way to do it? ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Rivers
Delta Foxtrot wrote on 20/05/2009 03:36:26 PM: > Just looking at, I think, the Clarence river near Grafton: > > http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=-29.6174 &lon=152.9053&zoom=14&layers=B000FTF > > The river banks are listed as natural=coastline > > Which is the better/correct way to do it? There is some contention where the coastline ends, and where the river begins. However, I could say with a fair degree of certainty that the coastline finishes somewhere between Adelaide and Inverell! Ian. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Rivers
>> AFAIK it is only lat, long and elevation data. How >> did you enter the name >> and surface tags for the ways. The source tag is the >> same. > GPX files can contain a lot of data and meta data, the schema for GPX 1.1 > can be found here: http://www.topografix.com/GPX/1/1 Well aware of that, I've been using them for osm uploads for 2-3years. However osm only uses a very limited set so lat, long and elev are all that is currently used by osm, you have to enter all other tags manually. Have a read of some of the info here: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Special:Search?search=gpx >> I could say something like that's google and not osm but >> >> have a look at the roundabouts below: > > I've drawn, probably wrong, at least one round about already, but that > isn't what I meant, I meant for uniform round abouts a few different round > about sizes would make less work for people. > >> Your gpx files should give you the correct sizes to make >> the roundabouts. > > GPS can be a car width or more wrong, although the more GPS tracks you can > start applying averaging etc. But it still will give you a good indication on how big to draw the roundabout. Most of this stuff is in the wiki you just need to have a read through it. -- Cheers Ross ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Rivers
To get imagery in Josm, you need to use the WMS menu at the top to add an imagery layer. You may need to set it up first with some plug-ins. It is certainly possible, though. Stephen 2009/5/20 Delta Foxtrot : > > > I tried JSOM briefly the other day but the entire background was black and > made it harder to use than potlach. > ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
