Re: [talk-au] Fwd: license change map
On Sun, Nov 28, 2010 at 11:40 PM, Neal Schulz wrote: > Hi, > >>In any case, "candidates welcome" was a ridiculous comment. > > I agree with this... If the only way to give feedback to an organisation is > to run for a position... well it's a ridiculous notion. > > I have been trying to stay out of the licensing issue because I really don't > understand the details. I am also going to dive into real geek work now and get out of this discussion. I love to talk about licenses and such, but unless I have some compelling code or data, no one will listen to me. I don't spend money on memberships of any sort, I am a member of no parties, subscribe to no magazines or newspapers and really don't spend money on things that I don't think are important, and if my work is not of value to some, others might find it good. I am going to try my best to work with the osmf, and with everyone else, donating time and resources to open data and open sources, free software and freedom. mike ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Fwd: license change map
Hi, >In any case, "candidates welcome" was a ridiculous comment. I agree with this... If the only way to give feedback to an organisation is to run for a position... well it's a ridiculous notion. I have been trying to stay out of the licensing issue because I really don't understand the details. I have watched with interest trying to see both sides. What does irk me is that I have been a mapper for about three years. When I started mapping in Hobart it was literally blank. However, the only way I heard about the licensing changes was second-hand on the talk-au list. OSM has a built in messaging system - how hard would it be to notify mappers of this issue and yet I have never been directly contacted about this. If it wasn't for people bringing it up on talk-au I would have no idea anything was afoot. I suspect there are many mappers who still have no idea that there is a proposed license change. That is not broad consultation and it makes it LOOK like people are trying to sneak something through. Regards, Neal ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] OSMF elections
On Sun, Nov 28, 2010 at 1:30 PM, Richard Weait wrote: > On Sat, Nov 27, 2010 at 11:48 PM, David Murn > wrote: > > On Sat, 2010-11-27 at 15:12 -0800, Richard Fairhurst wrote: > > > >> OSMF is a democratically elected body. Candidates welcome. I guess > 2011's > >> elections will take place at the start of July as usual. > >> > >> (Last year's election: > >> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Foundation/AGM10/Election_to_Board ) > > > > Out of interest, how come only 3 names are shown as 'elected' on that > > page, but the foundation page lists 7 members? Is the entire board > > required to stand down every year, before elections are held? > > In 2010, OSMF transitioned from "chair serves two year term and others > serve one-year terms", to "1/3 of board stands for election each > year". Ulf, Mike and Andy chose to step down and not to run again. > Six new candidates stood and three were elected to the three > vacancies. > > Hmmm, according to the articles of association "The members of the Board to retire shall be those who have been longest in office since their last election or appointment." So if I'm reading your table correctly then SteveC, Mikel and Andy should have retired and, if they wished, stood for re-election. The fact that other board members wished to retire does not appear to be relevant. > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Foundation/AGM09 > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Foundation/AGM08 > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Foundation/AGM07 > > FYI, and because I love ASCII-(ch)art, here is the history of the OSMF > board elections. (monospace font required.) > > 07|08|09|10| > Y |-> | Y |-> | Steve Coast > Y | Y | Y | - | Andy Robinson > Y | Y | N | - | George James (Etienne) > Y | Y | Y | - | Michael Collinson > Y | Y | Y |-> | Mikel Maron > Y | - | - | - | Richard Fairhurst > Y | - | - | - | Corey Burger > - | Y | N | - | Nick Black > - | Y | Y |-> | Henk Hoff > - | N | - | - | Grant Slater > - | N | Y |-> | Simone Cortesi > - | N | - | - | Richard Weait > - | - | Y | - | Ulf Möller > - | - | N | - | Peter Miller > - | - | N | - | Hurricane Coast (nee McEwen) > - | - | - | Y | Emilie Laffray > - | - | - | Y | Iván Sánchez Ortega > - | - | - | Y | Oliver Kühn > - | - | - | N | Lars Franke > - | - | - | N | Thea Clay > - | - | - | N | Kate Chapman > > [ ... ] > > Interestingly, I notice the number of foundation members is dropping > > over previous years, 2009 numbers were over 250, where 2010 numbers were > > only 130. Has any effort been made to find out why so many former > > members decided not to rejoin? > > Those numbers surprise me. Where did you get them? 145 valid votes > were cast for the most recent election, so your "130" does not match > the election results found here. > > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/osmf-talk/2010-August/000975.html > > I do remember the AGM10 report from the membership secretary > mentioning the number of paid members (but I don't recall the number). > Perhaps I can find that report. > > [ ... ] > > > Do the various working > > groups publish their own minutes or decisions, [ ... ] > > Steve Bennett showed us the location of the minutes. > > http://www.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Working_Group_Minutes > > There is also an unofficial summary of Board and Working Group > activities that is published periodically at > http://blog.osmfoundation.org/ > > ___ > Talk-au mailing list > Talk-au@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au > ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] OSMF elections
On Sun, Nov 28, 2010 at 10:01 AM, David Murn wrote: > On Sun, 2010-11-28 at 08:30 -0500, Richard Weait wrote: >> On Sat, Nov 27, 2010 at 11:48 PM, David Murn wrote: [ ... ] > Thanks for the explanation, someone else provided the simple two-year > explanation off-list, which makes the elections make more sense. No problem. You planning to run in 2011? Never too early to start campaigning. ;-) >> > Interestingly, I notice the number of foundation members is dropping >> > over previous years, 2009 numbers were over 250, where 2010 numbers were >> > only 130. Has any effort been made to find out why so many former >> > members decided not to rejoin? >> >> Those numbers surprise me. Where did you get them? 145 valid votes >> were cast for the most recent election, so your "130" does not match >> the election results found here. > > I found the numbers in the minutes, but from a quick look through now I > cant remember exactly which ones. I'm not certain if membership numbers fall under "must be reported", "may be reported", or "may only be reported under specific privacy guidelines". I'll send a request to the board / membership secretary and copy you. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] OSMF elections
On Sun, 2010-11-28 at 08:30 -0500, Richard Weait wrote: > On Sat, Nov 27, 2010 at 11:48 PM, David Murn wrote: > > On Sat, 2010-11-27 at 15:12 -0800, Richard Fairhurst wrote: > > > In 2010, OSMF transitioned from "chair serves two year term and others > serve one-year terms", to "1/3 of board stands for election each > year". Thanks for the explanation, someone else provided the simple two-year explanation off-list, which makes the elections make more sense. > > Interestingly, I notice the number of foundation members is dropping > > over previous years, 2009 numbers were over 250, where 2010 numbers were > > only 130. Has any effort been made to find out why so many former > > members decided not to rejoin? > > Those numbers surprise me. Where did you get them? 145 valid votes > were cast for the most recent election, so your "130" does not match > the election results found here. I found the numbers in the minutes, but from a quick look through now I cant remember exactly which ones. Unfortunately a lot of them dont have membership reports, and those that do often dont state the number of members. Im not sure what the association laws are like in the UK, but from my experience of minuting meetings (and openness of documents and reports) under Australian law, these wouldnt come close to muster. Im happy enough to be corrected if youre actually able to find minutes somewhere that do have the relevant numbers from points in time. David ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] JOSM Preset
On 28 November 2010 23:34, Richard Weait wrote: > of the Nearmap preset from JOSM. It does seem to me like the removal > is aligned with Ben Last's request to remove a similar preset from Judging from a reply from Frederik it seems it was done out of spite, FUD or to coerce people. http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-au/2010-November/007332.html ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] JOSM Preset
It was because we had an edit link on the map page that invoked Potlatch directly, so Potlatch was the first thing I thought about at the time. We haven't made any specific requests in relation to any other editor, including JOSM. Regards Ben On 28 November 2010 21:34, Richard Weait wrote: > On Sat, Nov 27, 2010 at 11:48 PM, David Murn > wrote: > [ ... ] > > Do the various working > > groups publish their own minutes or decisions, or do we just find out > > what they decide after the changes have taken place, such as the > > JOSM/Nearmap issue recently? > > I'm unaware of any Board or Working Group involvement in the removal > of the Nearmap preset from JOSM. It does seem to me like the removal > is aligned with Ben Last's request to remove a similar preset from > Potlatch. Why Ben specified only Potlatch is unknown to me. Perhaps > he is less familiar with other editing programs and they aren't top of > mind. > > ___ > Talk-au mailing list > Talk-au@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au > -- Ben Last Development Manager nearmap.com ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] JOSM Preset
On Sat, Nov 27, 2010 at 11:48 PM, David Murn wrote: [ ... ] > Do the various working > groups publish their own minutes or decisions, or do we just find out > what they decide after the changes have taken place, such as the > JOSM/Nearmap issue recently? I'm unaware of any Board or Working Group involvement in the removal of the Nearmap preset from JOSM. It does seem to me like the removal is aligned with Ben Last's request to remove a similar preset from Potlatch. Why Ben specified only Potlatch is unknown to me. Perhaps he is less familiar with other editing programs and they aren't top of mind. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] OSMF elections
On Sat, Nov 27, 2010 at 11:48 PM, David Murn wrote: > On Sat, 2010-11-27 at 15:12 -0800, Richard Fairhurst wrote: > >> OSMF is a democratically elected body. Candidates welcome. I guess 2011's >> elections will take place at the start of July as usual. >> >> (Last year's election: >> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Foundation/AGM10/Election_to_Board ) > > Out of interest, how come only 3 names are shown as 'elected' on that > page, but the foundation page lists 7 members? Is the entire board > required to stand down every year, before elections are held? In 2010, OSMF transitioned from "chair serves two year term and others serve one-year terms", to "1/3 of board stands for election each year". Ulf, Mike and Andy chose to step down and not to run again. Six new candidates stood and three were elected to the three vacancies. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Foundation/AGM09 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Foundation/AGM08 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Foundation/AGM07 FYI, and because I love ASCII-(ch)art, here is the history of the OSMF board elections. (monospace font required.) 07|08|09|10| Y |-> | Y |-> | Steve Coast Y | Y | Y | - | Andy Robinson Y | Y | N | - | George James (Etienne) Y | Y | Y | - | Michael Collinson Y | Y | Y |-> | Mikel Maron Y | - | - | - | Richard Fairhurst Y | - | - | - | Corey Burger - | Y | N | - | Nick Black - | Y | Y |-> | Henk Hoff - | N | - | - | Grant Slater - | N | Y |-> | Simone Cortesi - | N | - | - | Richard Weait - | - | Y | - | Ulf Möller - | - | N | - | Peter Miller - | - | N | - | Hurricane Coast (nee McEwen) - | - | - | Y | Emilie Laffray - | - | - | Y | Iván Sánchez Ortega - | - | - | Y | Oliver Kühn - | - | - | N | Lars Franke - | - | - | N | Thea Clay - | - | - | N | Kate Chapman [ ... ] > Interestingly, I notice the number of foundation members is dropping > over previous years, 2009 numbers were over 250, where 2010 numbers were > only 130. Has any effort been made to find out why so many former > members decided not to rejoin? Those numbers surprise me. Where did you get them? 145 valid votes were cast for the most recent election, so your "130" does not match the election results found here. http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/osmf-talk/2010-August/000975.html I do remember the AGM10 report from the membership secretary mentioning the number of paid members (but I don't recall the number). Perhaps I can find that report. [ ... ] > Do the various working > groups publish their own minutes or decisions, [ ... ] Steve Bennett showed us the location of the minutes. http://www.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Working_Group_Minutes There is also an unofficial summary of Board and Working Group activities that is published periodically at http://blog.osmfoundation.org/ ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Fwd: license change map
On Sun, Nov 28, 2010 at 6:02 AM, Elizabeth Dodd wrote: > I can see the legal line of thought for paying to belong to a company / > organisation. I can too. Annual membership dues provide a mechanism for a member to 1) show who they are (thereby making it more difficult to obtain multiple votes), and 2) show that they continue to be interested in being a member. Providing 1 and 2 without any payment at all would wind up costing the organization money. I certainly don't think every contributor should be instantly admitted to the organization. That would be a legal nightmare. On the other hand, a provision for the waiver of annual dues in certain situations would be appropriate. Most of all I just wanted to point out that "candidates welcome" was a ridiculous comment, though. The vast majority of the volunteers are not even members in the OSMF, so our voice to express disagreement with the policies and management of the OSMF is appropriately on the mailing lists. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Fwd: license change map
On Sun, Nov 28, 2010 at 5:15 AM, Steve Bennett wrote: > On Sun, Nov 28, 2010 at 8:29 PM, Mike Dupont > wrote: >> Yeah, I dont pay in money, I pay in code and data. Does that count? >> Also I payed in trips all over to collect data, dinners with people, etc etc. >> Why do I need to pay money to a bank account so that I have a say? >> FAIL! > > You could make that argument for virtually every volunteer > organisation. Like the volunteer fire department I used to work for, which, by the way, waived my annual membership dues, and collected donations from the recipients of the donated labor, not the volunteers providing it. > Virtually all organisations need some kind of funds, and > if there is no other form of revenue, it comes from members. Nothing > unusual there. I don't know what is usual, but usual doesn't mean appropriate. In any case, "candidates welcome" was a ridiculous comment. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Fwd: license change map
On Sun, 28 Nov 2010 11:43:52 +0100 Mike Dupont wrote: > On Sun, Nov 28, 2010 at 11:15 AM, Steve Bennett > wrote: > > On Sun, Nov 28, 2010 at 8:29 PM, Mike Dupont > > wrote: > >> Yeah, I dont pay in money, I pay in code and data. Does that count? > >> Also I payed in trips all over to collect data, dinners with > >> people, etc etc. Why do I need to pay money to a bank account so > >> that I have a say? FAIL! > > > > You could make that argument for virtually every volunteer > > organisation. Virtually all organisations need some kind of funds, > > and if there is no other form of revenue, it comes from members. > > Nothing unusual there. > > The question is of funds for voting rights or merit for voting rights. > > This means that the people with funds will have a vote and the people > who are just working will not. > > mike > I can see the legal line of thought for paying to belong to a company / organisation. I do support the right of those without large amounts of cash - students, those living in developing countries - to have a say. All contributions to the project need to be valued - code, data, server maintenance and cash. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Fwd: license change map
On Sun, Nov 28, 2010 at 11:15 AM, Steve Bennett wrote: > On Sun, Nov 28, 2010 at 8:29 PM, Mike Dupont > wrote: >> Yeah, I dont pay in money, I pay in code and data. Does that count? >> Also I payed in trips all over to collect data, dinners with people, etc etc. >> Why do I need to pay money to a bank account so that I have a say? >> FAIL! > > You could make that argument for virtually every volunteer > organisation. Virtually all organisations need some kind of funds, and > if there is no other form of revenue, it comes from members. Nothing > unusual there. The question is of funds for voting rights or merit for voting rights. This means that the people with funds will have a vote and the people who are just working will not. mike ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] OSMF Fwd: license change map
On Sun, Nov 28, 2010 at 3:48 PM, David Murn wrote: > outcomes arent published back into the minutes. Do the various working > groups publish their own minutes or decisions, or do we just find out > what they decide after the changes have taken place, such as the > JOSM/Nearmap issue recently? They appear to go here: http://www.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Working_Group_Minutes Steve ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Fwd: license change map
On Sun, Nov 28, 2010 at 8:29 PM, Mike Dupont wrote: > Yeah, I dont pay in money, I pay in code and data. Does that count? > Also I payed in trips all over to collect data, dinners with people, etc etc. > Why do I need to pay money to a bank account so that I have a say? > FAIL! You could make that argument for virtually every volunteer organisation. Virtually all organisations need some kind of funds, and if there is no other form of revenue, it comes from members. Nothing unusual there. Steve ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Fwd: license change map
On Sun, Nov 28, 2010 at 2:46 AM, Anthony wrote: > On Sat, Nov 27, 2010 at 6:12 PM, Richard Fairhurst > wrote: >> >> Steve Bennett wrote: >>> Elizabeth Dodd wrote: >>> > 1. OSMF needs a written out strategic plan. >>> Hear, hear. >> >> The equivalent of "Patches welcome" in this case is: >> >> OSMF is a democratically elected body. Candidates welcome. > > ...provided they've paid their membership dues. Yeah, I dont pay in money, I pay in code and data. Does that count? Also I payed in trips all over to collect data, dinners with people, etc etc. Why do I need to pay money to a bank account so that I have a say? FAIL! > > ___ > Talk-au mailing list > Talk-au@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au > -- James Michael DuPont Member of Free Libre Open Source Software Kosova and Albania flossk.org flossal.org ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
