Re: [talk-au] Fwd: vine row tagging
On Fri, 16 Oct 2020 at 13:52, John Bryant wrote: > > I'm not totally full bottle on all the mailman list management variables, > but I think it's managed with the reply_goes_to_list setting here: > > https://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-admin/node11.html > Thanks, John, but not something that can be fixed from my end! Thanks Graeme ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Fwd: vine row tagging
On Fri, 16 Oct 2020 at 05:37, Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote: > Resending message to the list :-( > > How do we fix it so that "Reply" goes to the list, not just the last > poster? > I'm not totally full bottle on all the mailman list management variables, but I think it's managed with the reply_goes_to_list setting here: https://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-admin/node11.html ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Fwd: vine row tagging
Thanks Ben, That's a good point re: accuracy. But absolute position within a few meters may be OK, if the relative position is maintained. Vine rows are generally visible on imagery and could be mapped that way. It's also not unusual for a vineyard to survey their rows with high accuracy GPS. About usefulness to farmers... this mapping initiative is coming from the viticulture community, so I have to assume they have reasons to find it useful. If those reasons are compelling enough, they'll probably be the ones doing much of the mapping... and if in the end it doesn't prove to be useful then it probably won't go very far. Cheers John On Fri, 16 Oct 2020 at 10:54, Benjamin Ceravolo wrote: > I understand the principal being explained above as to why Vire rows are > wanting to be mapped, but my question is is it even practical within the > use of the map considering that viren reos are approximately 1.5m apart and > all but the most high end GNSS (GPS) units are +1m accuracy. My point being > that I (from a map usage standpoint) don't see how the mapping of vine > rows would be useful to farmers, if anything they want to mark any data, > while out in the Vineyard would ether be potentially inaccurate or be have > to be mapped on paper which I think defeats the purpose of mapping it on > OSM. > > Thanks, Ben. > ___ > Talk-au mailing list > Talk-au@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au > ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Fwd: vine row tagging
On Fri, 16 Oct 2020 at 13:54, Benjamin Ceravolo wrote: > I understand the principal being explained above as to why Vire rows are > wanting to be mapped, but my question is is it even practical within the > use of the map considering that viren reos are approximately 1.5m apart and > all but the most high end GNSS (GPS) units are +1m accuracy. My point being > that I (from a map usage standpoint) don't see how the mapping of vine > rows would be useful to farmers, if anything they want to mark any data, > while out in the Vineyard would ether be potentially inaccurate or be have > to be mapped on paper which I think defeats the purpose of mapping it on > OSM. > Paths in cemeteries are also very close together, but with aerial imagery it's possible to map out with this detail (even if the whole thing is shifted that's okay and never going to be perfect anyway. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Fwd: vine row tagging
Thanks Ian, that's a very good point re: consistency with orchards & plantations. Whether this style of mapping will actually prove to be broadly useful, time will tell I suppose, but seems better to start off aiming for consistency. On Fri, 16 Oct 2020 at 06:41, Little Maps wrote: > That’s an interesting development in OSM micro-mapping John. Can I put a > vote in for using natural=tree_row rather than barrier=fence, if no better > options are available. I’m not arguing from the point of rendering, but > from the perspective of developing a tagging scheme that will be useful in > other orchards and even perhaps timber plantations, if future mappers > extend this process. Most (all?) orchards and plantations have woody plants > in rows, but only a few have fence-like trellises. Natural=tree_row would > be suitable for a wide range of orchards and plantations whereas > barrier=fence is much more restricted. It would be a pain if the almond > plantations and citrus orchards in a region used one tagging scheme while > the nearby vineyards used a different one. I’m certainly glad I don’t have > to map them all! Best wishes Ian > > On 16 Oct 2020, at 8:37 am, Graeme Fitzpatrick > wrote: > > > Resending message to the list :-( > > How do we fix it so that "Reply" goes to the list, not just the last > poster? > > Thanks > > Graeme > > > -- Forwarded message - > From: Graeme Fitzpatrick > Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2020 at 17:20 > Subject: Re: [talk-au] vine row tagging > To: John Bryant > > > > > > On Thu, 15 Oct 2020 at 16:34, John Bryant wrote: > >> >> Well, they want to map rows, to use OSM in a way that will be useful to >> the viticulture community. The idea is to add more detail to vineyards than >> is currently in OSM, which has vineyard areas but not rows. >> >> To some degree, but for viticulture people it would be useful to use >> *actual* rather than assumed locations. >> > > Fair enough. > > Referring to the OSM carto rendering? That's a good point. What else could >> we use to describe a vine row? >> > > As Brendan mentioned, mark them in as fences, which will show a nice > straight line, although that could be called tagging for the renderer! :-) > It wouldn't be altogether wrong though, as they do form a barrier to > movement across the rows! > > do features like vine rows belong in OSM? Does the difficulty in finding a >> tagging schema for vine rows point to an incompatible feature type? I had >> assumed that because they're readily observable on the ground, and >> relatively persistent, it would make sense to map them... but if there's a >> reason they shouldn't be in OSM it would be good to know, so the folks I'm >> helping can change course. >> > > I guess that's a question of what do the end-users want to see about > "their" land? Most would probably be happy just to see it as a vineyard, > but if somebody wants extra detail, is it up to us to say "No"? I wouldn't > have said so, myself! > > Thanks > > Graeme > > ___ > Talk-au mailing list > Talk-au@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au > > ___ > Talk-au mailing list > Talk-au@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au > ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Fwd: vine row tagging
I understand the principal being explained above as to why Vire rows are wanting to be mapped, but my question is is it even practical within the use of the map considering that viren reos are approximately 1.5m apart and all but the most high end GNSS (GPS) units are +1m accuracy. My point being that I (from a map usage standpoint) don't see how the mapping of vine rows would be useful to farmers, if anything they want to mark any data, while out in the Vineyard would ether be potentially inaccurate or be have to be mapped on paper which I think defeats the purpose of mapping it on OSM. Thanks, Ben. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Fwd: vine row tagging
That’s an interesting development in OSM micro-mapping John. Can I put a vote in for using natural=tree_row rather than barrier=fence, if no better options are available. I’m not arguing from the point of rendering, but from the perspective of developing a tagging scheme that will be useful in other orchards and even perhaps timber plantations, if future mappers extend this process. Most (all?) orchards and plantations have woody plants in rows, but only a few have fence-like trellises. Natural=tree_row would be suitable for a wide range of orchards and plantations whereas barrier=fence is much more restricted. It would be a pain if the almond plantations and citrus orchards in a region used one tagging scheme while the nearby vineyards used a different one. I’m certainly glad I don’t have to map them all! Best wishes Ian > On 16 Oct 2020, at 8:37 am, Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote: > > > Resending message to the list :-( > > How do we fix it so that "Reply" goes to the list, not just the last poster? > > Thanks > > Graeme > > > -- Forwarded message - > From: Graeme Fitzpatrick > Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2020 at 17:20 > Subject: Re: [talk-au] vine row tagging > To: John Bryant > > > > > >> On Thu, 15 Oct 2020 at 16:34, John Bryant wrote: >> >> Well, they want to map rows, to use OSM in a way that will be useful to the >> viticulture community. The idea is to add more detail to vineyards than is >> currently in OSM, which has vineyard areas but not rows. >> >> To some degree, but for viticulture people it would be useful to use >> *actual* rather than assumed locations. > > Fair enough. > >> Referring to the OSM carto rendering? That's a good point. What else could >> we use to describe a vine row? > > As Brendan mentioned, mark them in as fences, which will show a nice straight > line, although that could be called tagging for the renderer! :-) It wouldn't > be altogether wrong though, as they do form a barrier to movement across the > rows! > >> do features like vine rows belong in OSM? Does the difficulty in finding a >> tagging schema for vine rows point to an incompatible feature type? I had >> assumed that because they're readily observable on the ground, and >> relatively persistent, it would make sense to map them... but if there's a >> reason they shouldn't be in OSM it would be good to know, so the folks I'm >> helping can change course. > > I guess that's a question of what do the end-users want to see about "their" > land? Most would probably be happy just to see it as a vineyard, but if > somebody wants extra detail, is it up to us to say "No"? I wouldn't have said > so, myself! > > Thanks > > Graeme > > ___ > Talk-au mailing list > Talk-au@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
[talk-au] Fwd: vine row tagging
Resending message to the list :-( How do we fix it so that "Reply" goes to the list, not just the last poster? Thanks Graeme -- Forwarded message - From: Graeme Fitzpatrick Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2020 at 17:20 Subject: Re: [talk-au] vine row tagging To: John Bryant On Thu, 15 Oct 2020 at 16:34, John Bryant wrote: > > Well, they want to map rows, to use OSM in a way that will be useful to > the viticulture community. The idea is to add more detail to vineyards than > is currently in OSM, which has vineyard areas but not rows. > > To some degree, but for viticulture people it would be useful to use > *actual* rather than assumed locations. > Fair enough. Referring to the OSM carto rendering? That's a good point. What else could > we use to describe a vine row? > As Brendan mentioned, mark them in as fences, which will show a nice straight line, although that could be called tagging for the renderer! :-) It wouldn't be altogether wrong though, as they do form a barrier to movement across the rows! do features like vine rows belong in OSM? Does the difficulty in finding a > tagging schema for vine rows point to an incompatible feature type? I had > assumed that because they're readily observable on the ground, and > relatively persistent, it would make sense to map them... but if there's a > reason they shouldn't be in OSM it would be good to know, so the folks I'm > helping can change course. > I guess that's a question of what do the end-users want to see about "their" land? Most would probably be happy just to see it as a vineyard, but if somebody wants extra detail, is it up to us to say "No"? I wouldn't have said so, myself! Thanks Graeme ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
