[talk-au] Overland Track added
Hi all, I've added the Overland Track* and all the major side trips: http://osm.org/go/uDrl4bT (scroll down to see the full thing) That includes the ascents of Cradle Mountain, Barn Bluff, Lake Will, Old Pelion Hut, Mt Oakleigh (about 3/4 of it), the waterfalls near Du Cane Hut, Mt Ossa, the Acropolis and Labyrinth Lookout. There are a few gaps in the trace when I forgot to restart the GPS after a break. Most of the gaps are pretty short, and the weakest area is around the waterfalls. Can't wait till it shows up here: http://osm.lonvia.de/world_hiking.html?zoom=13&lat=-41.7011&lon=145.94805&layers=FFBT Steve * A hiking trail from near Cradle Mountain to the southern end of Lake St Clair, in Tasmania. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Overland Track added
On Sat, 20 Feb 2010, Steve Bennett wrote: > Hi all, > I've added the Overland Track* and all the major side trips: > http://osm.org/go/uDrl4bT > (scroll down to see the full thing) > > That includes the ascents of Cradle Mountain, Barn Bluff, Lake Will, > Old Pelion Hut, Mt Oakleigh (about 3/4 of it), the waterfalls near Du > Cane Hut, Mt Ossa, the Acropolis and Labyrinth Lookout. There are a > few gaps in the trace when I forgot to restart the GPS after a break. > Most of the gaps are pretty short, and the weakest area is around the > waterfalls. > > Can't wait till it shows up here: > http://osm.lonvia.de/world_hiking.html?zoom=13&lat=-41.7011&lon=145.94805&l > ayers=FFBT > > Steve > * A hiking trail from near Cradle Mountain to the southern end of Lake > St Clair, in Tasmania. > but did you have a good time? ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Overland Track added
On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 8:46 PM, Liz wrote: > but did you have a good time? Oh yeah, the weather was great! And so many friendly leeches... Steve ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Overland Track added
Steve Bennett wrote: > Oh yeah, the weather was great! And so many friendly leeches... As we bushwalkers say: "Tasmania is a mud-infested leach". John H ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Overland Track added
Steve Bennett wrote: > Hi all, > I've added the Overland Track* and all the major side trips: > http://osm.org/go/uDrl4bT > (scroll down to see the full thing) > > That includes the ascents of Cradle Mountain, Barn Bluff, Lake Will, > Old Pelion Hut, Mt Oakleigh (about 3/4 of it), the waterfalls near Du > Cane Hut, Mt Ossa, the Acropolis and Labyrinth Lookout. There are a > few gaps in the trace when I forgot to restart the GPS after a break. > Most of the gaps are pretty short, and the weakest area is around the > waterfalls. Well done. It's quite an adventure, and one you'll likely do again some time. But you forgot to mark the main track as one-way :) Have you got elevations you can add for the peaks? Eg "ele=1234". Don't specify units - metres is understood. And my Garmin assumes that any letter after the ele=* tag (even "m") means it's feet, and converts it from feet to metres before display (showing a wildly incorrect figure as a result). > Can't wait till it shows up here: > http://osm.lonvia.de/world_hiking.html?zoom=13&lat=-41.7011&lon=145.94805&layers=FFBT On past performances, it'll be rendered as a route early Monday morning (updated every 24 hours). Have you considered adding the track marker for display on the hiking map? Maybe: osmc:symbol=black::red_triangle John H ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Overland Track added
On Sun, 21 Feb 2010, John Henderson wrote: > > Can't wait till it shows up here: > > http://osm.lonvia.de/world_hiking.html?zoom=13&lat=-41.7011&lon=1 > >45.94805&layers=FFBT > > On past performances, it'll be rendered as a route early Monday morning > (updated every 24 hours). > It's there now, although there is a bit of feet wetting to do in the southern Lake (Lake St Clair?) ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Overland Track added
Liz wrote: > It's there now, although there is a bit of feet wetting to do in the southern > Lake (Lake St Clair?) At least on my system, that's just the underlying OSM map showing at present. It'll do better than that, and render the route as a single entity. See eg the Bicentennial National Trail: http://osm.lonvia.de/world_hiking.html?zoom=11&lat=-34.80759&lon=149.4472&layers=FFBT John H ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Overland Track added
Steve Bennett wrote: > I've added the Overland Track* and all the major side trips: > http://osm.org/go/uDrl4bT > (scroll down to see the full thing) I've noted the existence of the hiking route in the Australian Tagging Guidelines. John H ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Overland Track added
On Sun, Feb 21, 2010 at 6:27 AM, John Henderson wrote: > But you forgot to mark the main track as one-way :) It's not really one-way. You can only complete the whole track in one direction from about November to April or so, but there's no rule about doing individual sections in reverse order. > Have you got elevations you can add for the peaks? Eg "ele=1234". > Don't specify units - metres is understood. And my Garmin assumes that > any letter after the ele=* tag (even "m") means it's feet, and converts > it from feet to metres before display (showing a wildly incorrect figure > as a result). Lol - is that what the "ele" tag is. Oops. That means I had even uploaded waypoints with elevations for some summits. Then again, I didn't calibrate the altimeter, so they wouldn't be much use. I'm not sure what would count as reasonable sources for elevation data. Presumably not reading off maps, but what about books, other websites, signposts...? > Have you considered adding the track marker for display on the hiking > map? Maybe: > > osmc:symbol=black::red_triangle I dunno, I don't think the Overland really has a particular track marker, does it? Sure, there are red (or orange?) triangles used at certain points, but they're also used on the side trips. And there are very long sections with no markers at all, because they're not needed. Steve ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Overland Track added
Steve Bennett wrote: > It's not really one-way. You can only complete the whole track in one > direction from about November to April or so, but there's no rule > about doing individual sections in reverse order. That was tongue-in-cheek on my part. I just love the government telling me which direction I should walk in. > Lol - is that what the "ele" tag is. Oops. That means I had even > uploaded waypoints with elevations for some summits. > > Then again, I didn't calibrate the altimeter, so they wouldn't be much use. > > I'm not sure what would count as reasonable sources for elevation > data. Presumably not reading off maps, but what about books, other > websites, signposts...? I sometimes use the altimeter in my Garmin 76CSx, but it's a automatically GPS-calibrated barometric altimeter, and quite accurate. Otherwise, I just look it up from several sources and get a rough consensus. > I dunno, I don't think the Overland really has a particular track > marker, does it? Sure, there are red (or orange?) triangles used at > certain points, but they're also used on the side trips. And there are > very long sections with no markers at all, because they're not needed. Orange triangle is the present standard according to: http://www.parks.tas.gov.au/file.aspx?id=6789 Red is the nearest colour available from http://topo.geofabrik.de/symbols_en.html As they say, the symbol (if used) should approximate the one walkers will see on the track, or be otherwise meaningful rather than just looking nice. John H ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Overland Track added
On Sun, 21 Feb 2010, Steve Bennett wrote: > Then again, I didn't calibrate the altimeter, so they wouldn't be much use. > At walking speed should be reasonably accurate unless very heavy cloud. It calibrates itself against the GPS calculated height, so at the speed a man with a pack climbs a mountain, should be close. At the speed at which a cyclist descends, accuracy poor. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Overland Track added
On Sun, Feb 21, 2010 at 12:07 PM, John Henderson wrote: > That was tongue-in-cheek on my part. I just love the government telling > me which direction I should walk in. Dunno if I'd call PWS "the government". Personally, I'm glad. I wouldn't want to be passing 40 people a day with heavy packs on narrow boardwalks...not sure if that was the justification or not though. When everyone goes in one direction, it feels much less crowded, too. > I sometimes use the altimeter in my Garmin 76CSx, but it's a > automatically GPS-calibrated barometric altimeter, and quite accurate. Yeah, I switched on "automatic calibration", but I'm not sure what it does. Does it just take readings off the topo map (I'm using shonky maps)? If so, isn't that cheating... > Orange triangle is the present standard according to: > http://www.parks.tas.gov.au/file.aspx?id=6789 > > Red is the nearest colour available from > http://topo.geofabrik.de/symbols_en.html > > As they say, the symbol (if used) should approximate the one walkers > will see on the track, or be otherwise meaningful rather than just > looking nice. Ok, I'll investigate adding it. Steve ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Overland Track added
Steve Bennett wrote: > Dunno if I'd call PWS "the government". Personally, I'm glad. I > wouldn't want to be passing 40 people a day with heavy packs on narrow > boardwalks...not sure if that was the justification or not though. > When everyone goes in one direction, it feels much less crowded, too. I suppose it's more popular than when I first walked it - didn't see anyone for a couple of days. A friend did a winter trip around that time and didn't encounter anyone else at all. > Yeah, I switched on "automatic calibration", but I'm not sure what it > does. Does it just take readings off the topo map (I'm using shonky > maps)? If so, isn't that cheating... What model GPS have you got? I won't get if from the maps. Mine's got a barometric altimeter, like an aeroplane does. It measures air pressure very accurately. The problem then is calibration for the atmospheric highs and lows which pass. In a plane, you do that by entering the the current air pressure at your airport's altitude before you take off. And you get the figure for that airport from the Weather Bureau. The Garmin unit uses an rolling average of GPS-derived altitude to dynamically recalibrate. You then get the best of both worlds. The GPS-derived figure is accurate over a long time in the same position. The barometer is very accurate short term, but suffers in the long term unless recalibrated. John H ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Overland Track added
On Sun, Feb 21, 2010 at 2:18 PM, John Henderson wrote: > I suppose it's more popular than when I first walked it - didn't see > anyone for a couple of days. A friend did a winter trip around that > time and didn't encounter anyone else at all. Yeah, during peak season, there's something like 35 allocated places per day. > What model GPS have you got? Garmin Oregon 550. > The Garmin unit uses an rolling average of GPS-derived altitude to > dynamically recalibrate. You then get the best of both worlds. The > GPS-derived figure is accurate over a long time in the same position. > The barometer is very accurate short term, but suffers in the long term > unless recalibrated. Ah. What is "GPS-derived altitude" though, exactly - does it rely on a model of the earth's surface, or is it effectively computing the distance from the satellites? Anyway, my recorded elevation for Mt Ossa is 1613m, and the Acropolis is 1477m. Wikipedia gives Mt Ossa as 1614, and the Acropolis as 1481m. Maybe this method is more accurate than I was expecting... OTOH, I'm still not convinced that all this is necessary. Surely using figures from an authoritative source would serve everyone a lot better... Steve ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Overland Track added
Steve Bennett wrote: > Garmin Oregon 550. I see that's got a barometric altimeter too. Very good. > Ah. What is "GPS-derived altitude" though, exactly - does it rely on a > model of the earth's surface, or is it effectively computing the > distance from the satellites? Purely from satellites, definitely. Others on the list are likely much more up to speed with the technicalities. > Anyway, my recorded elevation for Mt Ossa is 1613m, and the Acropolis > is 1477m. Wikipedia gives Mt Ossa as 1614, and the Acropolis as 1481m. > Maybe this method is more accurate than I was expecting... > > OTOH, I'm still not convinced that all this is necessary. Surely using > figures from an authoritative source would serve everyone a lot > better... Yes, the figure from a proper survey should have an accuracy of a few centimetres. One of my many jobs (back in the 70s) was a chainman (surveyor's assistant). With modern electronic gear, I believe there's no such job any more. John H ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Overland Track added
Beat me to it! I hiked the Overland Track in January, and recorded a trace of most of it - but the busy getting-back-into-life-after-the-holidays has prevented me from adding it to OSM. I'll be able to provide confirmation of your track. - Lachlan On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 2:49 PM, John Henderson wrote: > Steve Bennett wrote: > >> Garmin Oregon 550. > > I see that's got a barometric altimeter too. Very good. > >> Ah. What is "GPS-derived altitude" though, exactly - does it rely on a >> model of the earth's surface, or is it effectively computing the >> distance from the satellites? > > Purely from satellites, definitely. Others on the list are likely much > more up to speed with the technicalities. > >> Anyway, my recorded elevation for Mt Ossa is 1613m, and the Acropolis >> is 1477m. Wikipedia gives Mt Ossa as 1614, and the Acropolis as 1481m. >> Maybe this method is more accurate than I was expecting... >> >> OTOH, I'm still not convinced that all this is necessary. Surely using >> figures from an authoritative source would serve everyone a lot >> better... > > Yes, the figure from a proper survey should have an accuracy of a few > centimetres. One of my many jobs (back in the 70s) was a chainman > (surveyor's assistant). With modern electronic gear, I believe there's > no such job any more. > > John H > > > ___ > Talk-au mailing list > Talk-au@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au > ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Overland Track added
John Henderson wrote: > Yes, the figure from a proper survey should have an accuracy of a few > centimetres. One of my many jobs (back in the 70s) was a chainman > (surveyor's assistant). With modern electronic gear, I believe there's > no such job any more. My old man's a surveyor so I've played chainman plenty of times too. These days it's less about the chain and more about carrying the prism to the benchmark and to each spot. You don't expect the surveyor to do the walking, do you? -- Sam Couter | mailto:s...@couter.id.au OpenPGP fingerprint: A46B 9BB5 3148 7BEA 1F05 5BD5 8530 03AE DE89 C75C signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Overland Track added
Sam Couter wrote: > My old man's a surveyor so I've played chainman plenty of times too. > These days it's less about the chain and more about carrying the prism > to the benchmark and to each spot. You don't expect the surveyor to do > the walking, do you? It was a surveyor I met in the field recently who told me that the chainman job had been abolished. I didn't ask her how she cuts down the trees that are in the way. John ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Overland Track added
On Mon, Mar 1, 2010 at 1:24 PM, Lachlan Rogers wrote: > Beat me to it! > > I hiked the Overland Track in January, and recorded a trace of most of > it - but the busy getting-back-into-life-after-the-holidays has > prevented me from adding it to OSM. > > I'll be able to provide confirmation of your track. Heh, I was wondering if that might happen. Anyway, I have a few gaps in it (mostly forgetting to turn the gps on after a break), so hopefully your trace will plug that. The biggest holes are around the waterfalls (after Du Cane Hut). Steve ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Overland Track added
On Wed, 3 Mar 2010, John Henderson wrote: > > My old man's a surveyor so I've played chainman plenty of times too. > > These days it's less about the chain and more about carrying the prism > > to the benchmark and to each spot. You don't expect the surveyor to do > > the walking, do you? > > It was a surveyor I met in the field recently who told me that the > chainman job had been abolished. > > I didn't ask her how she cuts down the trees that are in the way. > It's called fieldhand now. As a fieldhand my son has bogged the ute sorry as a fieldhand he has dug all the holes with a crowbar and hammered in the pegs. Someone still has to do the hard work He is now qualified but still looking for a job. He talks about mm accuracy, not a few centimetres. (Of course, in the 19th century, there were some very famous surveying mistakes) ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Overland Track added
> Heh, I was wondering if that might happen. Anyway, I have a few gaps > in it (mostly forgetting to turn the gps on after a break), so > hopefully your trace will plug that. The biggest holes are around the > waterfalls (after Du Cane Hut). I think I have some decent traces from that area. I was also recording my GPS trace for geotagging photos. I got right down to the bottom of the D'Alton falls - but the canyon was so steep that I was unable to lock onto any satellites from the bottom! I'll try to add my traces to the map soon. - Lachlan ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
