Re: [talk-au] Canberra Mapping - out of date
On 8 May 2011 17:47, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: On 5 May 2011 10:33, David Murn da...@incanberra.com.au wrote: On Wed, 2011-05-04 at 21:22 +1000, Nick Hocking wrote: Unfortunately this has meant that Canberra OSM data is now badly out of date. I have recently heard of a situation where up-to-date Canberra data could have been *extremely* usefull to somebody. What's more of a shame is the fact existing roads are being remapped when there is tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands, of rural roads that could be mapped from Bing that isn't already mapped. Oh and if anyone is looking to redo vector data from Bing, Tamworth, NSW has a lot of poorly aligned roads based on survey data. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Canberra Mapping - out of date
On 5 May 2011 10:33, David Murn da...@incanberra.com.au wrote: On Wed, 2011-05-04 at 21:22 +1000, Nick Hocking wrote: Unfortunately this has meant that Canberra OSM data is now badly out of date. I have recently heard of a situation where up-to-date Canberra data could have been *extremely* usefull to somebody. What's more of a shame is the fact existing roads are being remapped when there is tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands, of rural roads that could be mapped from Bing that isn't already mapped. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Canberra Mapping - out of date
On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 12:19 PM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: On 6 May 2011 10:47, David Murn da...@incanberra.com.au wrote: This could almost be considered vandalism, what you are doing to the quality of the map data available for Canberra. Please dont touch any of my 'out-of-date' edits from the past 6 months to realign them with 10 year old aerial imagery. You mentioned previously that Bing was out of alinement by up to 100m, if this is the case it is a clear case of vandalism since he should be at the vest least realigning Bing imagery to GPS traces. Interesting - I wonder if that is the cause of some of the strangeness I see in Port Macquarie cheers ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au -- Franc ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Canberra Mapping - out of date
On Wed, 2011-05-04 at 21:22 +1000, Nick Hocking wrote: Unfortunately this has meant that Canberra OSM data is now badly out of date. I have recently heard of a situation where up-to-date Canberra data could have been *extremely* usefull to somebody. Just out of interest, I noticed youve been 'realigning' some nearmap sourced ways to bing imagery recently in my area. You claim to be making the map up-to-date, but are you aware that the Bing imagery for Canberra is from March 2001, while the latest nearmap source (which they were traced from and which you claim to be out-of-date) was acquired November 2010? This could almost be considered vandalism, what you are doing to the quality of the map data available for Canberra. Please dont touch any of my 'out-of-date' edits from the past 6 months to realign them with 10 year old aerial imagery. Also, if youre going to trace ways from Bing, why tag them as source=nearmap? Are you delibrately trying to muddy the waters? David ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Canberra Mapping - out of date
On Fri, 2011-05-06 at 12:19 +1000, John Smith wrote: On 6 May 2011 10:47, David Murn da...@incanberra.com.au wrote: You mentioned previously that Bing was out of alinement by up to 100m, if this is the case it is a clear case of vandalism since he should be at the vest least realigning Bing imagery to GPS traces. The few times Ive used it, Ive found the accuracy to vary anywhere from 0-100m. The accuracy varies in local regions too, so while one part of a suburb might be offset 50m north-east of reality, another part of the suburb might be offset 50m south-east of reality, this means you constantly have to realign the imagery while working with it. I remember hearing once about someone writing some sort of plugin or database which kept a track of how offset parts of the bing imagery are, but never heard if it was successful or how extensive the coverage is. Given its age (over 10 years old in Canberra), and these nasty accuracy limitations anyone would be crazy to use it in preference to NearMap. David ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Canberra Mapping - out of date
On 6 May 2011 10:47, David Murn da...@incanberra.com.au wrote: I remember hearing once about someone writing some sort of plugin or database which kept a track of how offset parts of the bing imagery are, but never heard if it was successful or how extensive the coverage is. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:True_Offset_Process#The_fool.27s_errand Given its age (over 10 years old in Canberra), and these nasty accuracy limitations anyone would be crazy to use it in preference to NearMap. Was surveying around Casey on the weekend. Impressed by the OSM coverage as always of the new areas. Still a just a cleared area on the bing imagery, but I still would have put it more recent than 10 years. Maybe 3 or 4? Bing and Nearmap both seemed well aligned, but Nearmap with far superior imagery. Ian. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Canberra Mapping - out of date
On Fri, 2011-05-06 at 14:02 +1000, Ian Sergeant wrote: On 6 May 2011 10:47, David Murn da...@incanberra.com.au wrote: Given its age (over 10 years old in Canberra), and these nasty accuracy limitations anyone would be crazy to use it in preference to NearMap. Was surveying around Casey on the weekend. Impressed by the OSM coverage as always of the new areas. Casey was one of the areas I was talking about wanting to survey last year but it was already done before the construction fences were even taken down, street names and all (and a single GPS trace, now covered by dozens more). Still a just a cleared area on the bing imagery, but I still would have put it more recent than 10 years. Maybe 3 or 4? The Bing aerial imagery analyzer gives different results for different areas, youre right, some of the newer parts of gungahlin are only 3 years old, but the imagery around Tuggeranong which I quickly checked is showing as March 2001. Bing and Nearmap both seemed well aligned, but Nearmap with far superior imagery. In related news, NearMap are flying Canberra as I write this, so expect even more superior (and up-to-date) imagery online in the next couple of weeks, hopefully with a little more coverage of unmapped areas to go and explore. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Canberra Mapping - out of date
Hello. I am offended by the tone of this message. This sums up the problem with the process in place...It has divided the community and people that used to just work together and get things done have started calling others names. Your implication that this process effects only three people (three aus-forkers) is ludicrous. Your assertion that anyone who has used Nearmap is a sub-par mapper is offensive. Please calm down. Those of us effected by this CT/License issue wish it would go away too. I used to enjoy contributing to OSM. In fact I was addicted to it. But the fact that my data is being threatened to be deleted because the RULES CHANGED and I used sources that WERE COMPATIBLE but now are deemed not to be is incredibly frustrating. And trust me - most of my mapping has been out there actually mapping using a gps. Denigrating those who contribute by tracing is badly misplaced. Regards, Neal - Original Message - From: Nick Hocking nick.hock...@gmail.com To: talk-au@openstreetmap.org Sent: Wednesday, 4 May, 2011 9:22:44 PM Subject: [talk-au] Canberra Mapping - out of date Some time ago, I resolved not to do any more mapping in Australia until the three aus-forkers had well and truly forked off and taken their precious data with them. Unfortunately this has meant that Canberra OSM data is now badly out of date. I have recently heard of a situation where up-to-date Canberra data could have been *extremely* usefull to somebody. Since it was exactly this type of situation that prompted me to spend so much time mapping Canberra and keeping it very up-to-date, and despite my revulsion at having to work on a project while the three forkers are still in residence, this weekend I will bring Canberra up-to-date again. This data could not have been arm-chair mapped with nearmap (or Bing for that matter) but needs people out there actually mapping rather than incessantly bitching and moaning about things on these lists. I really wish that OSM-F would finalise the CT/licence implementation, (tomorrow would be good!) ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Canberra Mapping - out of date
On Wed, 2011-05-04 at 21:22 +1000, Nick Hocking wrote: Unfortunately this has meant that Canberra OSM data is now badly out of date. I have recently heard of a situation where up-to-date Canberra data could have been *extremely* usefull to somebody. As an active Canberra mapper, exactly which parts are 'badly out of date'? The only areas I can think of that you could be referring to are a couple of new land estates in Gungahlin. Since it was exactly this type of situation that prompted me to spend so much time mapping Canberra and keeping it very up-to-date, and despite my revulsion at having to work on a project while the three forkers are still in residence, this weekend I will bring Canberra up-to-date again. I may be wrong, but I think youll find theres more than 3 fork projects tentatively being planned. This data could not have been arm-chair mapped with nearmap (or Bing for that matter) but needs people out there actually mapping rather than incessantly bitching and moaning about things on these lists. Once again, can you suggest areas which arent covered by bing/nearmap that are out of date? Other than a couple of new land estates I cant think of any areas needing work, but it would be great if you could point some of us locals in the right direction, so that if there are unmapped areas there can be more than just your manhours spent alone on it, after all, that is a great thing about OSM is the teamwork to more completely map unmapped or out-of-date areas. I really wish that OSM-F would finalise the CT/licence implementation, (tomorrow would be good!) I think we've all been hoping for a finalisation one way or the other, or even a rough timeline which can be stuck to. The damage done to the project through this dragged out process and constantly moving the goalposts may be irrepairable. At best, only a few mappers may abandon the project, at worst we may have set precedent with data providers being wary of making concessions to open-data projects, having given away their data then be told 'thanks for your effort but were not interested anymore'. Not wanting to dishearten you, but currently the ODbL/CTs changeover is 2 weeks into phase 3 of 5. Phase 3 will take '5 or 10 weeks', Phase 4 will take at least 8 weeks (and apparently community consultation). If everything moves as quickly as is scheduled (considering its taken 12 months to reach this stage), the changeover might be complete by the start of summer. David ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
