Re: [talk-au] The OSM ladder
Ben wrote Also, thank you for fixing those track sections at St Marys. Do you know what happened there? Given there was a derailment there 2 months ago, I find this a spooky co-incidence... Co-incidently I was in Sydney for the day, on that day, for a work meeting and as I was heading back to the XPT I saw the signs about the derailment. As to the mis-edit, probably just and overmapped helper from overseas who should have given up an hour before and gone to bed. Making lots of boring edits all at once is a recipe for lots of mistakes. Thanks for the links - it seems that the area around Pictgon is very problematic - this is not looking good :-( . Also flying it to Australia could be difficult since the world record for the longest cargo is 42 metres (in an Antinov 225 aircraft). Still, I don't have a problem with trying to set a world record. If this doesn't work then we would need to ship it to Australia or maybe just build it/them here, but how boring would that be. This could be all about making huge headlines around the country which would be a win for everyone ionvolved. Nick ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] The OSM ladder
Nick, Is this a thought experiment about OSM mapping or a question about loading gauges that the ARTC might better answer? My quick guess is that OSM cannot answer the question either in the affirmative or the negative as it doesn't have data every 50 meters along the route. Alex On 16/10/2012, at 5:35 PM, Nick Hocking nick.hock...@gmail.com wrote: I wish to transport a long thinnish somewhat fragile wooden object from Sydney to Canberra behind steam locomotive 1210. Given that there some tunnels along the way, is the mapping in OSM accurate enough in terms of bendiness to calculate (given a known width of tunnel) whether the wooden object will survive the trip. I guess it's a bit like the ladder around the corner problem except that the corner is not 90 degree and it's not actually a ladder. I suspect the object may be in the vicinity of 50 metres long. Nick ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] The OSM ladder
Alex wrote or a question about loading gauges that the ARTC might better answer? Yes it would be better for ARTC to answer but before I bother them I would like to know if it is at all feasable. Specifically, I am concerned that one of the tunnels between Queanbeyan and Bungendore may well be too sharp and since I'm sure it was not mapped by proper survey but just by connecting the two ends with some sort or curve, I may well have to get the object offloaded at Bungendore and trucked in from there. I'd imagine the curves should be ok for a 50 metre object but I'm not at all sure. Nick ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] The OSM ladder
Just use openstreetbugs to geolocate the splinters, and we'll get to work. Ian. On 16/10/12 18:05, Nick Hocking wrote: I wish to transport a long thinnish somewhat fragile wooden object from Sydney to Canberra behind steam locomotive 1210. Given that there some tunnels along the way, is the mapping in OSM accurate enough in terms of bendiness to calculate (given a known width of tunnel) whether the wooden object will survive the trip. I guess it's a bit like the ladder around the corner problem except that the corner is not 90 degree and it's not actually a ladder. I suspect the object may be in the vicinity of 50 metres long. Nick ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] The OSM ladder
Actually, I've just had a go with a 50 metre stick insect in JOSM and it is REALLY touch and go (or is that touch and stay). Nick ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] The OSM ladder
Maybe I'm missing something but surely it depends not only on the radius of curvature of the track but also the width of the tunnel. It has been bugging me that ways have no width in OSM. But I suppose the alternative would be very hard to manage. Secondly, even if you don't trust the path marked when inside the tunnel .. you could at least work out a minimum radius of curvature based on the heading of the tracks as they join each end of the tunnel. Russell On 16/10/12 18:40, Nick Hocking wrote: Actually, I've just had a go with a 50 metre stick insect in JOSM and it is REALLY touch and go (or is that touch and stay). Nick ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] The OSM ladder
Russell wrote you could at least work out a minimum radius of curvature OK - what I will do is find out the tunnel width. Then I'll assume that we offload the objecty just before the tunnel and walk it through with the object rotated 90 degrees through the long axis. I'll do as you suggest and assume a minimum (or should that be maximum) raduis of curvature and see what a best case scenario is). The only other problem I see is the tunnel near colo vale, looks like a close fit. Checking OSM I came out of Sydney the wrong way but when I was well and truly derailed at St Marys, I headed back inthe right direction. Unfortunately someone has connected two railway tracks with a residential road. It's hard to see how the bing imagery supports this view but I'll fix all those edits I can find in a hour or so since the history makes it quite unambiguous how the tagging should be. Nick ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] The OSM ladder
Ok - my initial drawings, using JOSM and a tunnel width of 3 metres show that this could end up being a matter of inches. I really have to find out exact dimensions of the object and whether there is any flexability in it so that we could bend it around the tunnel. Also, if two tunnels are such a problem then are there any other object close enought to the tracks (trees, signal posts, platforms) that could be an issue. I don't think we need special rolling stock, two or three flat beds with the object mounted on a swivel may suffice. A more practical (though less fun and flashy) alternative is to just have the object flown directly to Canberra rather than Sydney but this would also mean organising Customs to be present in Canberra. I can just see the conversation now. Do you have any wooden objects in your luggage to declare... Yes officer, just the one :-) ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] The OSM ladder
Nick… I'm not sure what you're doing, it sounds fascinating, mysterious and dangerous. I like it. Please let me know what path you're taking through Sydney so I can avoid the area completely... I don't want to crash a brand new $30m Waratah into your ladder! This info from ARTC will be handy … http://www.artc.com.au/library/GI_05_loading_restrictions.pdf Also, thank you for fixing those track sections at St Marys. Do you know what happened there? Given there was a derailment there 2 months ago, I find this a spooky co-incidence... http://hornsby-advocate.whereilive.com.au/news/story/train-delays-after-derailment-at-st-marys/ Mr Eid said the derailment was under investigation and that he believed a component from a freight train fell onto the track. …. a very large ladder, perhaps? :-) You might find this site an interesting source of tunnel information… but sadly no widths or loading gauges . http://www.nswrail.net/infrastructure/tunnel.php If you're interested in the evolution of loading gauges in NSW, I recommend a book published by the Australian Railway Historical Society called The Electrification of Sydney and Suburban Railways which explains the decision that lead to a new wide-bodied loading gauge adopted for construction of the Harbour Bridge and City Underground Railway… a bold move with ongoing repercussions today (e.g. you can't send a wide-bodied train such as an OSCAR any further west than Springwood without major and expensive modifications to the infrastructure -- so…. what happens to outer Blue Mountains train services once our narrow-bodied V-sets are eventually retired and replaced with OSCARs hmmm??). Finally… if you're confused by all these sizes, just remember it all gets back to the width of 2 horses asses. http://infobluemountains.net.au/rail/horse-ass.htm BJ On 16/10/2012, at 6:30 PM, Nick Hocking nick.hock...@gmail.com wrote: Alex wrote or a question about loading gauges that the ARTC might better answer? Yes it would be better for ARTC to answer but before I bother them I would like to know if it is at all feasable. Specifically, I am concerned that one of the tunnels between Queanbeyan and Bungendore may well be too sharp and since I'm sure it was not mapped by proper survey but just by connecting the two ends with some sort or curve, I may well have to get the object offloaded at Bungendore and trucked in from there. I'd imagine the curves should be ok for a 50 metre object but I'm not at all sure. Nick ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
