Re: [talk-au] Use of Gold Coast Council info?

[Simon Poole]

I believe these are the same paragraphs in  CC BY 2.0 and 3.0, but in
any case you need to check the licence text as particularly in the case
of AUS the licences are sometimes customized and the numbering may have
changed.

Simon


On 17.03.2017 22:49, Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote:
> Thanks everyone for your input here - it's all getting very hard :-(
>
> Simon, thanks for the info re the "official" position. That page
> mentions "a similar document for obtaining the necessary waivers for
> the 2.0 and 3.0 versions of CC BY
> .",but
> that document only says CC-BY-2.0. Is it simply a matter of replacing
> 2.0 with 3.0? There is mention made of Sections 4a & b of CC-BY-2.0 -
> do those same sections apply in 3.0? 
>
> Thanks
>
> Graeme
>
>
> On 18 March 2017 at 05:46, Simon Poole  > wrote:
>
> See https://blog.openstreetmap.org/2017/03/17/use-of-cc-by-data/
>  for our
> (LWG)  position.
>
>
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Re: [talk-au] Use of Gold Coast Council info?

[Andrew Harvey]

Huge thank you Simon, and those who helped out with this! The cover is
a great summary we can pass on to rights holders and the form to be
signed appears to provide legal rigour for organisations to grant the
additional rights required.

On 18 March 2017 at 06:46, Simon Poole  wrote:
> See https://blog.openstreetmap.org/2017/03/17/use-of-cc-by-data/ for our
> (LWG)  position.
>
>
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Re: [talk-au] Use of Gold Coast Council info?

[Graeme Fitzpatrick]

Thanks everyone for your input here - it's all getting very hard :-(

Simon, thanks for the info re the "official" position. That page mentions "a
similar document for obtaining the necessary waivers for the 2.0 and 3.0
versions of CC BY

.", but that document only says CC-BY-2.0. Is it simply a matter of
replacing 2.0 with 3.0? There is mention made of Sections 4a & b of
CC-BY-2.0 - do those same sections apply in 3.0?

Thanks

Graeme


On 18 March 2017 at 05:46, Simon Poole  wrote:

> See https://blog.openstreetmap.org/2017/03/17/use-of-cc-by-data/ for our
> (LWG)  position.
>
>
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Re: [talk-au] Use of Gold Coast Council info?

[Simon Poole]

See https://blog.openstreetmap.org/2017/03/17/use-of-cc-by-data/ for our
(LWG)  position.


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Re: [talk-au] Use of Gold Coast Council info?

[Andrew Harvey]

I completely agree with you that the blanket data.gov.au permission
doesn't sit right, and we should be getting the source agency to grant
additional terms to their license that attribution can be done on the
Contributors wiki page.

On 16 March 2017 at 09:33, Andrew Davidson  wrote:
> Sigh...I was hoping that no-one would ever re-open the data.gov.au
> permission can of worms.
>
> The general view is that to use CC-BY data in OSM we need explicit
> permission from the *rights holder*
> (https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/ODbL_Compatibility). data.gov.au
> is a dataset aggregation system, they are not the rights holder for any of
> the datasets listed (other than possibly the PSMA datasets). In this case
> the rights holder is the Gold Coast Council so you need to get permission
> from them.
>
> In fact if you want to list your datasets on data.gov.au you have explicitly
> state that you understand that DPMC takes no responsibility:
>
> https://toolkit.data.gov.au/index.php?title=Starting_on_datagovau#Creating_and_editing_your_organisations_information_and_data_categorisation
>
> Which is kind of the opposite of transferring any rights to them.
>
> For those who want a hair-raising read you can check out the list discussion
> from way back at the licence change under the subject "ODbL data.gov.au
> permission granted":
>
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-au/2011-September/thread.html
>
> through to about Dec 2011.
>
>
>
> On 15/3/17 23:13, Andrew Harvey wrote:
>>
>> On Mon, 13 Mar 2017, at 05:38 PM, Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote:
>>>
>>> G'day all
>>>
>>> A while back, mentioned about using Gold Coast City Council data.
>>>
>>> Been too many other things going on to contact them, but just looked into
>>
>> it again & found this new page:
>> http://www.goldcoast.qld.gov.au/open-data-access-project-21818.html
>>>
>>>
>>> Could some clever person please translate it into OSM for me? :-)
>>>
>>> Also tried to send an e-mail to their listed address & it's spat back as
>>
>> undeliverable to a different GCCC address?
>>
>> I believe the consensus is we can include the data at
>> http://data.gov.au/organization/city-of-gold-coast per
>>
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Attribution/data.gov.au_explicit_permission
>> .
>>
>> If you're planning on importing Gold Coast City Council data into OSM, you
>> can read through https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/Guidelines.
>>
>> I'm interested to know which datasets you plan to import, your mapping of
>> the tags, and the process you'll use (will you manually merge existing
>> objects?)
>>
>>
>>
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Re: [talk-au] Use of Gold Coast Council info?

[Andrew Harvey]

I think even if you're manually importing, it's still importing and it's
helpful if it's discussed here first.

Working out what tags to bring across is top of mind.

On 16 Mar 2017 4:57 PM, "Graeme Fitzpatrick"  wrote:

> Hi
>
> re: "I'm interested to know which datasets you plan to import, your
> mapping of the tags, and the process you'll use (will you manually merge
> existing objects?)"
>
> Importing datasets is WAY above my level of skill!!!
>
> If we're able to make use of this data (stay tuned!), I myself would
> purely be doing manual checking
>
> Thanks
>
> Graeme
>
>
> On 15 March 2017 at 22:13, Andrew Harvey  wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 13 Mar 2017, at 05:38 PM, Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote:
>> > G'day all
>> >
>> > A while back, mentioned about using Gold Coast City Council data.
>> >
>> > Been too many other things going on to contact them, but just looked
>> into it again & found this new page: http://www.goldcoast.qld.gov.a
>> u/open-data-access-project-21818.html
>> >
>> > Could some clever person please translate it into OSM for me? :-)
>> >
>> > Also tried to send an e-mail to their listed address & it's spat back
>> as undeliverable to a different GCCC address?
>>
>> I believe the consensus is we can include the data at
>> http://data.gov.au/organization/city-of-gold-coast per
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Attribution/data.gov.au_
>> explicit_permission.
>>
>> If you're planning on importing Gold Coast City Council data into OSM,
>> you can read through https://wiki.openstreetmap.org
>> /wiki/Import/Guidelines.
>>
>> I'm interested to know which datasets you plan to import, your mapping of
>> the tags, and the process you'll use (will you manually merge existing
>> objects?)
>>
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>>
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Re: [talk-au] Use of Gold Coast Council info?

[Graeme Fitzpatrick]

Have been reading those old threads - what a bunfight! :-(

Thanks

Graeme


On 16 March 2017 at 08:33, Andrew Davidson  wrote:

> Sigh...I was hoping that no-one would ever re-open the data.gov.au
> permission can of worms.
>
> The general view is that to use CC-BY data in OSM we need explicit
> permission from the *rights holder* (https://wiki.openstreetmap.or
> g/wiki/Import/ODbL_Compatibility). data.gov.au is a dataset aggregation
> system, they are not the rights holder for any of the datasets listed
> (other than possibly the PSMA datasets). In this case the rights holder is
> the Gold Coast Council so you need to get permission from them.
>
> In fact if you want to list your datasets on data.gov.au you have
> explicitly state that you understand that DPMC takes no responsibility:
>
> https://toolkit.data.gov.au/index.php?title=Starting_on_data
> govau#Creating_and_editing_your_organisations_information
> _and_data_categorisation
>
> Which is kind of the opposite of transferring any rights to them.
>
> For those who want a hair-raising read you can check out the list
> discussion from way back at the licence change under the subject "ODbL
> data.gov.au permission granted":
>
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-au/2011-Septe
> mber/thread.html
>
> through to about Dec 2011.
>
>
>
> On 15/3/17 23:13, Andrew Harvey wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 13 Mar 2017, at 05:38 PM, Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote:
>>
>>> G'day all
>>>
>>> A while back, mentioned about using Gold Coast City Council data.
>>>
>>> Been too many other things going on to contact them, but just looked into
>>>
>> it again & found this new page:
>> http://www.goldcoast.qld.gov.au/open-data-access-project-21818.html
>>
>>>
>>> Could some clever person please translate it into OSM for me? :-)
>>>
>>> Also tried to send an e-mail to their listed address & it's spat back as
>>>
>> undeliverable to a different GCCC address?
>>
>> I believe the consensus is we can include the data at
>> http://data.gov.au/organization/city-of-gold-coast per
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Attribution/data.gov.au_
>> explicit_permission
>> .
>>
>> If you're planning on importing Gold Coast City Council data into OSM, you
>> can read through https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/Guidelines.
>>
>> I'm interested to know which datasets you plan to import, your mapping of
>> the tags, and the process you'll use (will you manually merge existing
>> objects?)
>>
>>
>>
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>>
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Re: [talk-au] Use of Gold Coast Council info?

[Graeme Fitzpatrick]

Hi

re: "I'm interested to know which datasets you plan to import, your mapping
of the tags, and the process you'll use (will you manually merge existing
objects?)"

Importing datasets is WAY above my level of skill!!!

If we're able to make use of this data (stay tuned!), I myself would purely
be doing manual checking

Thanks

Graeme


On 15 March 2017 at 22:13, Andrew Harvey  wrote:

> On Mon, 13 Mar 2017, at 05:38 PM, Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote:
> > G'day all
> >
> > A while back, mentioned about using Gold Coast City Council data.
> >
> > Been too many other things going on to contact them, but just looked
> into it again & found this new page: http://www.goldcoast.qld.gov.
> au/open-data-access-project-21818.html
> >
> > Could some clever person please translate it into OSM for me? :-)
> >
> > Also tried to send an e-mail to their listed address & it's spat back as
> undeliverable to a different GCCC address?
>
> I believe the consensus is we can include the data at http://data.gov.au/
> organization/city-of-gold-coast per https://wiki.openstreetmap.
> org/wiki/Attribution/data.gov.au_explicit_permission.
>
> If you're planning on importing Gold Coast City Council data into OSM, you
> can read through https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/Guidelines.
>
> I'm interested to know which datasets you plan to import, your mapping of
> the tags, and the process you'll use (will you manually merge existing
> objects?)
>
> ___
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>
>
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Re: [talk-au] Use of Gold Coast Council info?

[Andrew Davidson]

Sigh...I was hoping that no-one would ever re-open the data.gov.au 
permission can of worms.


The general view is that to use CC-BY data in OSM we need explicit 
permission from the *rights holder* 
(https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/ODbL_Compatibility). 
data.gov.au is a dataset aggregation system, they are not the rights 
holder for any of the datasets listed (other than possibly the PSMA 
datasets). In this case the rights holder is the Gold Coast Council so 
you need to get permission from them.


In fact if you want to list your datasets on data.gov.au you have 
explicitly state that you understand that DPMC takes no responsibility:


https://toolkit.data.gov.au/index.php?title=Starting_on_datagovau#Creating_and_editing_your_organisations_information_and_data_categorisation

Which is kind of the opposite of transferring any rights to them.

For those who want a hair-raising read you can check out the list 
discussion from way back at the licence change under the subject "ODbL 
data.gov.au permission granted":


https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-au/2011-September/thread.html

through to about Dec 2011.


On 15/3/17 23:13, Andrew Harvey wrote:

On Mon, 13 Mar 2017, at 05:38 PM, Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote:

G'day all

A while back, mentioned about using Gold Coast City Council data.

Been too many other things going on to contact them, but just looked into

it again & found this new page:
http://www.goldcoast.qld.gov.au/open-data-access-project-21818.html


Could some clever person please translate it into OSM for me? :-)

Also tried to send an e-mail to their listed address & it's spat back as

undeliverable to a different GCCC address?

I believe the consensus is we can include the data at
http://data.gov.au/organization/city-of-gold-coast per
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Attribution/data.gov.au_explicit_permission
.

If you're planning on importing Gold Coast City Council data into OSM, you
can read through https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/Guidelines.

I'm interested to know which datasets you plan to import, your mapping of
the tags, and the process you'll use (will you manually merge existing
objects?)



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Re: [talk-au] Use of Gold Coast Council info?

[Andrew Harvey]

On Mon, 13 Mar 2017, at 05:38 PM, Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote:
> G'day all
>
> A while back, mentioned about using Gold Coast City Council data.
>
> Been too many other things going on to contact them, but just looked into
it again & found this new page:
http://www.goldcoast.qld.gov.au/open-data-access-project-21818.html
>
> Could some clever person please translate it into OSM for me? :-)
>
> Also tried to send an e-mail to their listed address & it's spat back as
undeliverable to a different GCCC address?

I believe the consensus is we can include the data at
http://data.gov.au/organization/city-of-gold-coast per
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Attribution/data.gov.au_explicit_permission
.

If you're planning on importing Gold Coast City Council data into OSM, you
can read through https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/Guidelines.

I'm interested to know which datasets you plan to import, your mapping of
the tags, and the process you'll use (will you manually merge existing
objects?)
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Re: [talk-au] Use of Gold Coast Council info?

[Graeme Fitzpatrick]

G'day all

A while back, mentioned about using Gold Coast City Council data.

Been too many other things going on to contact them, but just looked into
it again & found this new page:
http://www.goldcoast.qld.gov.au/open-data-access-project-21818.html

Could some clever person please translate it into OSM for me? :-)

Also tried to send an e-mail to their listed address & it's spat back as
undeliverable to a different GCCC address?

Thanks

Graeme


On 11 August 2016 at 13:38, Graeme Fitzpatrick 
wrote:

> Thanks everyone for your thoughts!
>
> I'll have a look at the data.gov.au info when I have a chance (& can
> figure out how to open a KMZ file! :-()
>
> Will also get in touch with GCCC re authorisation.
>
> Graeme
>
>
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Re: [talk-au] Use of Gold Coast Council info?

[Andrew Harvey]

On Wed, 10 Aug 2016, at 05:10 PM, Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote:
> Gold Coast City Council have (fairly) recently set up an online city plan: 
> http://cityplanmaps.goldcoast.qld.gov.au/CityPlan/, which shows planning 
> zones etc as well as street names.

Have you taken a look at the open data they publish at
https://data.gov.au/organization/city-of-gold-coast to see if the data
exists there?

That data is under CC BY 3.0, but "is ODbL compatible if rights
holder(s) explicitly states in writing that credit on the Contributors
page is sufficient to fulfill attribution requirements including
downstream use in works derived from OSM".

The best point of contact will be opend...@goldcoast.qld.gov.au

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Re: [talk-au] Use of Gold Coast Council info?

[Ralph Aytoun]

Hi all,

I have to disagree with the idea that you can use this material. It is very 
explicitly “under copyright” and that copyright is clearly not compatible with 
Openstreetmap “open” policy.

No CEO of the Council will have the authority to give “permission” to use their 
data as the CEO cannot overrule the copyright without changing the copyright 
itself. So the idea that everyone else that is using that data is bound by the 
copyright, but we are not, defeats the copyright because they will then come to 
Openstreetmap to use the data as they please.

Then what happens if the next CEO rules that the first CEO was wrong to have 
released the data and that that data is still under copyright. That compromises 
Openstreetmap and would require a complex revert of data, some of which may 
have already been used by third parties not aware of the original copyright on 
the Council data.

So again it is my opinion that the data is under copyright and is therefore not 
compatible with Openstreetmap policy.

The best people to ask for advise on this is OSM Legal Working Group 
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Re: [talk-au] Use of Gold Coast Council info?

[Ross]

Basically no unless you have explicit approval from Gold Coast Council.

It has more to do with osm user conditions than whether or not GCC 
licence is compatible.  It's the section that says something like "you 
own the data or have explicit permission to use it".


If the data licence was compatible and you received explicit approval 
from GCC then you could use this data.


Cheers

Ross


On 10/08/16 17:10, Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote:

G'day all

Been mapping on & off for a few years now but have recently got into 
it more actively due to having more time available.


Mainly working around the Gold Coast / SEQ but occasionally further 
afield as well.


Have only just found the talk list & forum, & have read quite a few 
threads re copyright & use of Govt data, so a question to all you 
knowledgable folk! :-)


Gold Coast City Council have (fairly) recently set up an online city 
plan: http://cityplanmaps.goldcoast.qld.gov.au/CityPlan/, which shows 
planning zones etc as well as street names.


As part of the terms & conditions it includes this for copyright:

"2.0 Copyright

Council owns or is licensed to exercise copyright and all other 
intellectual property rights to material on this website.


You may reproduce the contents of this website in your web browser 
(and in any cache file produced by your web browser) for the sole 
purpose of viewing the content.


You accept that your use of interactive mapping is limited to your own 
personal use or for use in the ordinary course of your business. You 
must not on-sell or distribute interactive mapping information for 
reward or otherwise to any other third party, nor produce any hardcopy 
products incorporating the information for commercial use."


Full T if anyone wants to check anything: 
http://www.goldcoast.qld.gov.au/planning-and-building/city-plan-interactive-mapping-terms-conditions-21859.html


I'm guessing that we can't make use of that plan info because of "You 
must not on-sell or distribute interactive mapping information for 
reward or otherwise to any other third party"?


They also have a Park Finder page which let's you search for park 
names, facilities, sports & so on: 
http://www.goldcoast.qld.gov.au/thegoldcoast/park-finder-24304.html


It's disclaimer & copyright page: 
http://www.goldcoast.qld.gov.au/disclaimer-and-copyright.html, says:


"Works and subject matter other than works, including pages, 
documents, online graphics, audio and video are protected by 
the/Copyright Act 1968/as amended. All rights, including moral rights, 
are reserved.


When you access the site, you agree to:

  * use the material on the site only for personal or educational
information purposes and not for any other purpose
  * include the copyright notice in any copy you make
  * not modify information found in Council materials, attribute it
as Council material, and then present it as Council material
without prior written permission."

So, how about that one, can we use it?

Has anybody ever dealt with GCCC re access to their data? Any luck?

May be a letter to the CEO asking for permission!

Thanks

Graeme



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Re: [talk-au] Use of Gold Coast Council info?

[Andrew Harvey]

On Wed, 10 Aug 2016, at 05:10 PM, Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote:
> So, how about that one, can we use it?

No, the license you quoted is too restrictuve and doesn't allow
including data in OSM.

> Has anybody ever dealt with GCCC re access to their data? Any luck?
> May be a letter to the CEO asking for permission!

It's worth a try, there is some advice at
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/GettingPermission

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/ODbL_Compatibility also does a
good job of listing out what licenses are acceptable for brining data
into OSM.

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Re: [talk-au] Use of Gold Coast Council info?

[Andrew Davidson]

You may reproduce the contents of this website in your web browser (and
in any cache file produced by your web browser) for the sole purpose of
viewing the content.


Good gravy. I've seen some stoopid terms and conditions but really? 
You're granting me the right to render your website for the purposes of 
letting my eyeballs see it? Guessing that if you are blind and want to 
use text to speech to listen to the website then you are out of luck.


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