Re: [OSM-talk-be] wiki highway conventions
The Ambachtenlaan is the main road to get to the industrial site located at the dead end. It was designed to get extended. This ring should connect the Oplintersesteenweg, the N29 and the N223 to the R27 ring. Last plans designed a parallel ringroad with the R27a because this road can't be used as a new secondary road anymore due to the occurence of direct driveways to the roadshops and industrial plants. i think it can be secondary as well as tertiairy. > Message: 2 > Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2012 12:00:13 +0100 > From: Ben Laenen > To: talk-be@openstreetmap.org > Subject: Re: [OSM-talk-be] wiki highway conventions > Message-ID: <201212281200.13876.benlae...@gmail.com> > Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-15" > > On Friday 28 December 2012 10:06:49 Kevin Grossard wrote: > > I can understand the current classification but i prefere to use the > > classification of the government. Should i undo my changement and make the > > ring primary again? In that case it makes sense for me to upgrade the N223 > > to a primary road allthough it isn't in rule with the wiki. In the other > > case i suggest to downgrade the N29 to a secondary road. > > If it were only up to me, I'd classify N29 as primary (I've seen some parts > of > that road and it's certainly "big enough" for primary). N223 no idea how that > road looks like, but I'd keep it secondary. And then to have a "logically > connected" map, the N3/N29 in the center of Tienen should all be primary as > well. Routers should pick the R27 based on tags like maxspeed and other data > like the number of crossings. > > But it's not only me who can decide of course :-) > > btw, what's the status of the Ambachtenlaan, which is that dead-end secondary > road on the east of Tienen? > > Ben > > > > -- > > ___ > Talk-be mailing list > Talk-be@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be > > > End of Talk-be Digest, Vol 60, Issue 23 > *** > ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] wiki highway conventions
On Friday 28 December 2012 10:06:49 Kevin Grossard wrote: > I can understand the current classification but i prefere to use the > classification of the government. Should i undo my changement and make the > ring primary again? In that case it makes sense for me to upgrade the N223 > to a primary road allthough it isn't in rule with the wiki. In the other > case i suggest to downgrade the N29 to a secondary road. If it were only up to me, I'd classify N29 as primary (I've seen some parts of that road and it's certainly "big enough" for primary). N223 no idea how that road looks like, but I'd keep it secondary. And then to have a "logically connected" map, the N3/N29 in the center of Tienen should all be primary as well. Routers should pick the R27 based on tags like maxspeed and other data like the number of crossings. But it's not only me who can decide of course :-) btw, what's the status of the Ambachtenlaan, which is that dead-end secondary road on the east of Tienen? Ben ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] wiki highway conventions
On 12/28/2012 01:10 AM, Ben Laenen wrote: On Friday 28 December 2012 00:22:17 Glenn Plas wrote: But the general wiki (which is probably USA based if I'm not mistaking here) does say so: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:highway%3Dprimary There is not much room for interpretation except 'large' definition. It's not really any country based. The definition is as broad as possible, and every country makes its own rules. Maybe I should have been more specific, it's just that the person that wrote that would have done it from their own point of view and location. Chances where that he/they come from the USA. A lot of assumption of course. But I understand if you drive over R22 you would classify it primary (although it has 4 lanes divided by a central barrier, not 2). That would be a trunk to me as it connect to the E19 complex in Vilvoorde. There are cycleways, so no trunk... Right again. Forgot about the cycleway requirement for a second. The definition of the word 'trunk' got me there. As a subnote, the N211 which belongs to that complex goes primary until the city center, that is wrong imho matched against the theory. Yeah, N211 should be secondary east of the R22. West of the R22: makes sense as primary. Strictly following the rules it should be secondary of course, but this is one of those possible exceptions. I'll change that short section soon if we ok on this, but I think it's the other way around the east section of R22 at the roundabout should remain primary and the west part changed to secondary. I guess someone did something similar in Vilvoorde with the R22. Whether that should be done, not really sure here. That's why I bring it up as I'm not totally sure myself, but when I'm not sure, I check the wiki ... And of course the wiki isn't exactly the best reference for it :-) The "definition" has been slowly adjusted on the mailing list for example, but we can't expect everyone to know the entire history of course... Since I'm only subscribed recently but active much longer, I'm one of them that missed it. I guess I'll make a small summary with some examples (limiting to trunk/primary/secondary): * trunk: "expressways", prohibited for pedestrians and cyclists. May be signed with F9 (motorroad), but not always. Not all roads with F9 are trunks (e.g. tunnels or bridges if the road it is part of isn't classified as trunk) * primary: Nx or Nxx roads * secondary: Nxxx roads (or P roads) Exceptions to primary/secondary above: * ringways (usually R roads, but can be N roads): classification from highest classified road that connects to it. Inside R road primary road becomes secondary if the ringway deviates the traffic between the *primary* roads. Secondary roads stay secondary inside ringways (they don't become tertiary) (*). e.g. R13 http://osm.org/go/0ErVXu0 This should end up on the wiki, it's good info. * everywhere it makes sense... When a road without number connects two parts that do for example, or any other weird situation you may encounter. e.g. Corbiestraat as primary http://osm.org/go/0ErYW5cL Plezantstraat as secondary (no road number) http://osm.org/go/0Ej6EwLs-- Roads with suffix in their number (e.g. N123a): use your brains. Almost every case is unique here so it's impossible to writ down a good rule. e.g. N1c http://osm.org/go/0EpMnUUZ-- N60b http://osm.org/go/0EiFrVaz-- N15a http://osm.org/go/0EpLMAqA- N42c http://osm.org/go/0EiwSJL_- If a N-road really shouldn't be secondary at all, it can be classified unclassief/residential (not tertiary, if it can be tertiary it's sufficient to be secondary) e.g. N408 http://osm.org/go/0EpSSDeg (*) note that the previous years a lot of roads in city centers have been transferred from the region to the municipalities, and they lost their road numbers, so they've become tertiary even though there are probably still road numbers found on the street. I guess these are the rules we have now. They sometimes allow for some discussion in some cases of course, but they do seem to create a nice map. This should end up on the wiki, it's good info. I do like the map as well as it is now, but I try not let the renderer influence my actions (too much) although it plays a role. Glenn ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] wiki highway conventions
>On 12/27/2012 23:22 PM, Glenn Plas wrote: >On 12/27/2012 10:28 PM, Ben Laenen wrote: >> I also wanted to point at Tienen, but I see it has been recently changed by >> someone:http://osm.org/go/0EqQDB8 >> There's the N29 coming in from the north, and the N3/N29 should stay primary >> because there's no ringway on the north. Now someone changed it to secondary >> which is incorrect IMO. > >It look to me someone hopes that this information ends up in GPS devices >so they router prefers the primary road :) . I don't know the place >there but it looks kind of strange to me that the N3/N29 isn't >primary. But zooming out and taking a peek at Leuven which I know >better I see the ring there is marked primary. So looking that those >without any knowledge on Tienen, I would conclude that the Tienen >N3/ring part is a lot different from the Leuven one, so it would support >the secondary classification. > >Thanks for the examples. > >Glenn I recently changed the ring of Tienen (N3) to a secondary road because the Sint-Truidensesteenweg (also N3) between the ring and the roundabout with the R27 already was a secondary road. The consequence of this changement is that there is no primary road connected anymore with the N29 Diestsesteenweg which is classified as a primary road (the only one left on the ring). For me it also doesn't make sense to keep the N29 primary if the N223 is secondary. They both connect the relative small cities Aarschot, Diest and the motorway E314 to another relative small city Tienen and the motorway E40. Nowdays the ring of Tienen is quite simular with the one of Leuven (southern part). Only the speed limit in Tienen is set on 70 km/h in stead of 50 km/h in Leuven. There are also plans to reduce the small ring of Tienen (N3) from a road with 2 lanes on each side to 1 lane on each side (already degrated to a secondary road type 3 in the structure plan of Vlaams-Brabant). An extension of the R27 to the N29 and the N223 won't be realised soon so there is no alternative for the N3 and no reason to degradate it. So even if the primary road changes to a secondary one, the gps will still folow the same route. I can understand the current classification but i prefere to use the classification of the government. Should i undo my changement and make the ring primary again? In that case it makes sense for me to upgrade the N223 to a primary road allthough it isn't in rule with the wiki. In the other case i suggest to downgrade the N29 to a secondary road. Kevin ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] wiki highway conventions
2012/12/28 Ben Laenen > And of course the wiki isn't exactly the best reference for it :-) The > "definition" has been slowly adjusted on the mailing list for example, but > we > can't expect everyone to know the entire history of course... > Too bad that useful information is more or less kept hidden for others inside country specific mailing lists. If the wiki is no longer a good reference, it should be updated. Volunteers? ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
