Re: [OSM-talk-be] OpenStreetMap meeting in Bruxelles on Octobre, 18

[Bessières , Marc]

Thank you  Marc, I didn't even know it existed, I will join it :) 

Le 2016-10-05 05:23, Marc Gemis a écrit :

> it's also on the Facebook group

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Re: [OSM-talk-be] [Tagging] mapping default values?

[André Pirard]

On 2016-10-05 11:00, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:
>
> 2016-10-05 3:35 GMT+02:00 André Pirard  >:
>
> On 2016-09-27 11:43, Marc Gemis wrote:
>> Hallo,
>>
>> op 1/1/2017 daalt de snelheid op Vlaamse gewestwegen van 90 naar 70.
>> Normaal gezien zullen we die wegen (zonder expliciete borden) dan
>> moeten taggen met
>>
>> maxspeed=70
>> source:maxspeed=??:rural
>>
>> maar wat komt er op de plaats van de vraagtekens ? Volgens [1] staat
>> daar de landcode, maar het geldt enkel voor Vlaanderen.
>> Ik zou tegen dan de BENELUX presets willen aanpassen.
>>
>> -
>> English:
>>
>> On 1/1/2017 the maxspeeds on Flemish roads is lowered to 70. We should
>> map those roads (without signs) with
>>
>> maxspeed=70
>> source:maxpseed=??:rural
>>
>> Which "country" code should I use in the BENELUX plugin ? See [1] for
>> the syntax of maxspeed.
> I don't think that default values like maxspeed=*, 
> driving_side=*, or even oneway=no should be tagged on highways.
> Most roads (in Belgium and in the world) don't contain any, BTW,
> and it makes no sense using a few.
> A default values specification should be used instead.
> Those tags should be contained in the highest level administrative
> boundary relation or equivalent in which they apply.
> maxspeed=70 should apply to Flanders and maxspeed=90 to Wallonia.
>
>
> what you propose is not working, because speed limits are about roads,
> not administrative entities. You have to know the context (rural/urban
> inside settlement according to traffic law, etc.) in order to assign a
> maxspeed, and the only way we currently use to understand which
> context applies are the source:maxspeed values. It is very simple,
> doesn't require preprocessing, can be applied by everyone without
> looking for and downloading surrounding administrative polygons, and
> is also quite reliable. Why would we give this up?
Please don't remove important quotations.

What you are saying is that every road in the world should have a
maxspeed=*. driving_side=*, etc.
It's far from being the case.  Hurry up to do so.  Presently, GPSes
cannot deal with defaults.
What I am saying is that there should be in the Walloon/Flemish
administrative boundaries relations or so a tag saying
if zone is rural then maxspeed=90/70.
That is what "def:highway
=primary
|highway
=secondary
;maxspeed
 = rural" does in
Relations/Proposed/Defaults
.
Instead of destroying propositions again please propose improvements.
I think that this proposition is sound but I don' agree with the too
complicated details of it.
Yes, default speed limit rules are about administrative entities for
someone who understands what Flemish and Walloon mean.
No, GPS dealing with administrative polygons is not complicated as they
keep saying on and on.
It would even be simple with subareas but that's another subject.
No tagging default maxspeed everywhere is not reliable because it
depends on many tags being correct instead of a few.
As to using signals, that's the worst idea.  They are valid up to the
next crossing, but not a private road, and they must be repeated.
Indicating which direction they apply to is tricky and a source of
error. The few  signals I looked at were municipality limits. They were
redundant with boundaries (a disparaged feature) and they did not mind
indicating on which side of the signal was the indicated municipality.
Imagine that with speed limits and you get the picture.

Cheers

André.



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[OSM-talk-be] newsletter, edition 3

[joost schouppe]

Hi,

There's a meetup and a mapathon coming up, so I'd like to get a newsflash
out quickly. It might be a good chance to say a couple of words about the
wonderful thing State of the Map was.

If you have any other thing you would like to tell the community of vaguely
interested people, now is your chance to share.

URL for contributing: https://hackpad.com/Newsletter-issue-3-bLjp4gokly0

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Re: [OSM-talk-be] a slightly more formal meetup

[joost schouppe]

One of the options is on a Saturday

2016-10-05 13:20 GMT+02:00 Marc Gemis :

> On Wed, Oct 5, 2016 at 11:39 AM, joost schouppe
>  wrote:
> > Considering we're all volunteers, I would suppose in the evening.
>
> Why not in a weekend ?
>
> m
>
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] a slightly more formal meetup

[Marc Gemis]

On Wed, Oct 5, 2016 at 11:39 AM, joost schouppe
 wrote:
> Considering we're all volunteers, I would suppose in the evening.

Why not in a weekend ?

m

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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Someone updating wiki like ....

[Jo]

If we're discussing this anyway. Would it make sense to start using this
tag for this purpose in Belgium as well?

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:maxspeed:type

and get rid of source:maxspeed altogether?

If we'll be retagging maxspeed everywhere anyway.

Polyglot

2016-10-05 12:08 GMT+02:00 Glenn Plas :

> Done,
>
> Used taginfo to list whats out there and filtered the crap.  what's in
> the wiki is the top
>
> I'm actually not convinced about usability of this tag in real life.
>
> we also have 70-zones which I seem to lack a designation
>
> I would actually think BE:zone can be 30/50/70 and if you know which one
> you should use BE:zone30 , BE:zone50 etc..
>
> Glenn
>
>
> On 05-10-16 11:46, Jakka wrote:
> > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:source:maxspeed
> >
> >
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] a slightly more formal meetup

[Jorieke Vyncke]

Is this a start of a local Maptime chapter in belgium?

http://maptime.io/

Groetjes!

2016-10-05 11:39 GMT+02:00 joost schouppe :

> Considering we're all volunteers, I would suppose in the evening.
>
> Also, looks like we're going to need a waiting list for presentations :)
>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Someone updating wiki like ....

[Glenn Plas]

Done,

Used taginfo to list whats out there and filtered the crap.  what's in
the wiki is the top

I'm actually not convinced about usability of this tag in real life.

we also have 70-zones which I seem to lack a designation

I would actually think BE:zone can be 30/50/70 and if you know which one
you should use BE:zone30 , BE:zone50 etc..

Glenn


On 05-10-16 11:46, Jakka wrote:
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:source:maxspeed
> 
> 
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[OSM-talk-be] Someone updating wiki like ....

[Jakka]

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:source:maxspeed


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Re: [OSM-talk-be] a slightly more formal meetup

[joost schouppe]

Considering we're all volunteers, I would suppose in the evening.

Also, looks like we're going to need a waiting list for presentations :)


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Re: [OSM-talk-be] [Tagging] mapping default values? (was: Maximum snelheid in Vlaanderen, maxspeed in Flanders)

[joost schouppe]

2016-10-05 11:20 GMT+02:00 Jo :

> We now have 1 country with 2 differing default values, depending on the
> region you happen to be in. A bit annoying. We'll probably need to tag all
> of them explicitely with maxspeed values. OTOH, we were already doing that
> anyway.
>
> Polyglot
>

Well, I have been adding maxspeed=90 on roads which have no traffic signs.
I'll add source:maxspeed=BE-VLG:rural if I happen upon similar situations
now. Didn't see the use of that tag before, unfortunately.

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Re: [OSM-talk-be] [Tagging] mapping default values? (was: Maximum snelheid in Vlaanderen, maxspeed in Flanders)

[Jo]

We now have 1 country with 2 differing default values, depending on the
region you happen to be in. A bit annoying. We'll probably need to tag all
of them explicitely with maxspeed values. OTOH, we were already doing that
anyway.

Polyglot

2016-10-05 11:00 GMT+02:00 Martin Koppenhoefer :

>
> 2016-10-05 3:35 GMT+02:00 André Pirard :
>
>> I don't think that default values like maxspeed=*,  driving_side=*, or
>> even oneway=no should be tagged on highways.
>> Most roads (in Belgium and in the world) don't contain any, BTW, and it
>> makes no sense using a few.
>> A default values specification should be used instead.
>> Those tags should be contained in the highest level administrative
>> boundary relation or equivalent in which they apply.
>> maxspeed=70 should apply to Flanders and maxspeed=90 to Wallonia.
>>
>
>
> what you propose is not working, because speed limits are about roads, not
> administrative entities. You have to know the context (rural/urban inside
> settlement according to traffic law, etc.) in order to assign a maxspeed,
> and the only way we currently use to understand which context applies are
> the source:maxspeed values. It is very simple, doesn't require
> preprocessing, can be applied by everyone without looking for and
> downloading surrounding administrative polygons, and is also quite
> reliable. Why would we give this up?
>
> Cheers,
> Martin
>
> ___
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>
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] a slightly more formal meetup

[Pieter Brusselman]

Sorry about the spam, but at which time of the day would it be organized?



Op 4-10-2016 om 19:59 schreef joost schouppe:

Hi,

I'm very happy to see another bar meetup in Brussels! [1] You should 
all come :)


But would anyone be interested in a little more formal thing? I 
believe it was in Hungaria where they frequently do meetups with two 
or three presentations, roughly related to OpenStreetMap. They always 
get about 50 participants, which sounds great. Don't worry, there 
would be beers and lemonades afterwards.


The logical place would be Brussels, as it is the most central 
location. It takes a little more time and effort to organize, but I 
think some of the amazing Brussels based people might be interested to 
help out.


Anyway, I made a framadate to check if anyone is interested, and if 
so, when [2]. Interested to find out if anyone is willing to help or 
present something.


We can of course discuss the idea over a geuze at the next Brussels 
meetup.



1: http://www.meetup.com/OpenStreetMap-Belgium/events/234599761/
2: https://framadate.org/74wPQ5W8AVKNUhjp

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Re: [OSM-talk-be] a slightly more formal meetup

[Pieter Brusselman]

I'm also interested!

I can have a talk too about how we make use of osm. But I'm more 
interested in learning from others :-).


Pieter

Op 5-10-2016 om 09:03 schreef Jonathan Beliën:


Hi everyone,

Awesome idea !

Not very comfortable (yet ?) to give a talk ;

But I live in Brussels so I could totally help to organise the thing 
(find a place, …) !


Jonathan Beliën

GEO-6

*De :*joost schouppe [mailto:joost.schou...@gmail.com]
*Envoyé :* mardi 4 octobre 2016 19:59
*À :* OpenStreetMap Belgium
*Objet :* [OSM-talk-be] a slightly more formal meetup

Hi,

I'm very happy to see another bar meetup in Brussels! [1] You should 
all come :)


But would anyone be interested in a little more formal thing? I 
believe it was in Hungaria where they frequently do meetups with two 
or three presentations, roughly related to OpenStreetMap. They always 
get about 50 participants, which sounds great. Don't worry, there 
would be beers and lemonades afterwards.


The logical place would be Brussels, as it is the most central 
location. It takes a little more time and effort to organize, but I 
think some of the amazing Brussels based people might be interested to 
help out.


Anyway, I made a framadate to check if anyone is interested, and if 
so, when [2]. Interested to find out if anyone is willing to help or 
present something.


We can of course discuss the idea over a geuze at the next Brussels 
meetup.


1: http://www.meetup.com/OpenStreetMap-Belgium/events/234599761/

2: https://framadate.org/74wPQ5W8AVKNUhjp

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Re: [OSM-talk-be] a slightly more formal meetup

[Jonathan Beliën]

Thanks guys :D

 

ESI could indeed be a good place ;

 

I have good contacts with MolenGeek, a startup incubator in Molenbeek ; great 
people and they have meeting rooms we could probably use (I did not asked yet).

Could be good to put Molenbeek back on the « good guys » map :D

 

 

 

 

Jonathan Beliën

GEO-6

 

De : joost schouppe [mailto:joost.schou...@gmail.com] 
Envoyé : mercredi 5 octobre 2016 09:51
À : Jo Hannes; OpenStreetMap Belgium
Objet : Re: [OSM-talk-be] a slightly more formal meetup

 

I think we can do ESI. Good location and we already have some contacts there.

 

Also, I was just kidding, poor Jonathan.

 

2016-10-05 9:47 GMT+02:00 Jo :

 

 

2016-10-05 9:28 GMT+02:00 Jonathan Beliën :

Seems like Jonathan will organize the whole thing :)

 

Yeaaah … Well … Uuuuh … :D

 

We have your back. It would be great if you can find a suitable venue. Part of 
the reason why I'm not organizing much myself anymore is that the search for a 
venue in another city like Lier is also quite an effort.

 

Jo


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Re: [OSM-talk-be] a slightly more formal meetup

[joost schouppe]

I think we can do ESI. Good location and we already have some contacts
there.

Also, I was just kidding, poor Jonathan.

2016-10-05 9:47 GMT+02:00 Jo :

>
>
> 2016-10-05 9:28 GMT+02:00 Jonathan Beliën :
>
>> Seems like Jonathan will organize the whole thing :)
>>
>>
>>
>> Yeaaah … Well … Uuuuh … :D
>>
>>
>>
> We have your back. It would be great if you can find a suitable venue.
> Part of the reason why I'm not organizing much myself anymore is that the
> search for a venue in another city like Lier is also quite an effort.
>
> Jo
>
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] a slightly more formal meetup

[Jo]

2016-10-05 9:28 GMT+02:00 Jonathan Beliën :

> Seems like Jonathan will organize the whole thing :)
>
>
>
> Yeaaah … Well … Uuuuh … :D
>
>
>
We have your back. It would be great if you can find a suitable venue. Part
of the reason why I'm not organizing much myself anymore is that the search
for a venue in another city like Lier is also quite an effort.

Jo
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] a slightly more formal meetup

[Jonathan Beliën]

Seems like Jonathan will organize the whole thing :)

 

Yeaaah … Well … Uuuuh … :D

 

Jonathan Beliën

GEO-6

 

De : joost schouppe [mailto:joost.schou...@gmail.com] 
Envoyé : mercredi 5 octobre 2016 09:09
À : OpenStreetMap Belgium
Objet : Re: [OSM-talk-be] a slightly more formal meetup

 

I think we have our speakers :)

(I myself would love to talk about GR mapping, Wegenregister and some of the 
subjects Marc mentioned)

 

About the language thing: of the 155 people who opened our newsletter, 13 
clicked through to the French translation, and 4 to the Dutch (it was the very 
first link in view). I think that's really a lot of effort for little gain. If 
we have more volunteers organizing stuff, I do agree it makes sense to talk to 
people in their own language. Being extremely local does work: when I did a 
meetup here in Halle, someone came from a small town 45 minutes away, because 
he preferred going to something in a small town, rather than in nearby 
Mechelen. But at this time, I think there's real value in doing things that are 
open to both Brussels and Flemish people. Especially as we have Flemish 
volunteers who have been working a little too hard, and a lot of energy in 
Brussels right now.

And don't forget there is a huge international community in Brussels, for whom 
often both French and Dutch are quite exotic. 

 

So please do sign up on the framapad, and let's pick a date. Seems like 
Jonathan will organize the whole thing :)

Seriously though, let me know if you're interested to help out and I'll keep 
you in the loop.

 

 

 

 

2016-10-05 9:03 GMT+02:00 Jonathan Beliën :

Hi everyone,

 

Awesome idea !

 

Not very comfortable (yet ?) to give a talk ;

But I live in Brussels so I could totally help to organise the thing (find a 
place, …) !

 

Jonathan Beliën

GEO-6

 

De : joost schouppe [mailto:joost.schou...@gmail.com] 
Envoyé : mardi 4 octobre 2016 19:59
À : OpenStreetMap Belgium
Objet : [OSM-talk-be] a slightly more formal meetup

 

Hi,

 

I'm very happy to see another bar meetup in Brussels! [1] You should all come :)

 

But would anyone be interested in a little more formal thing? I believe it was 
in Hungaria where they frequently do meetups with two or three presentations, 
roughly related to OpenStreetMap. They always get about 50 participants, which 
sounds great. Don't worry, there would be beers and lemonades afterwards. 

 

The logical place would be Brussels, as it is the most central location. It 
takes a little more time and effort to organize, but I think some of the 
amazing Brussels based people might be interested to help out.

 

Anyway, I made a framadate to check if anyone is interested, and if so, when 
[2]. Interested to find out if anyone is willing to help or present something.

 

We can of course discuss the idea over a geuze at the next Brussels meetup.

 

 

1: http://www.meetup.com/OpenStreetMap-Belgium/events/234599761/

2: https://framadate.org/74wPQ5W8AVKNUhjp

 

-- 

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Re: [OSM-talk-be] a slightly more formal meetup

[joost schouppe]

I think we have our speakers :)
(I myself would love to talk about GR mapping, Wegenregister and some of
the subjects Marc mentioned)

About the language thing: of the 155 people who opened our newsletter, 13
clicked through to the French translation, and 4 to the Dutch (it was the
very first link in view). I think that's really a lot of effort for little
gain. If we have more volunteers organizing stuff, I do agree it makes
sense to talk to people in their own language. Being extremely local does
work: when I did a meetup here in Halle, someone came from a small town 45
minutes away, because he preferred going to something in a small town,
rather than in nearby Mechelen. But at this time, I think there's real
value in doing things that are open to both Brussels and Flemish people.
Especially as we have Flemish volunteers who have been working a little too
hard, and a lot of energy in Brussels right now.
And don't forget there is a huge international community in Brussels, for
whom often both French and Dutch are quite exotic.

So please do sign up on the framapad, and let's pick a date. Seems like
Jonathan will organize the whole thing :)
Seriously though, let me know if you're interested to help out and I'll
keep you in the loop.




2016-10-05 9:03 GMT+02:00 Jonathan Beliën :

> Hi everyone,
>
>
>
> Awesome idea !
>
>
>
> Not very comfortable (yet ?) to give a talk ;
>
> But I live in Brussels so I could totally help to organise the thing (find
> a place, …) !
>
>
>
> Jonathan Beliën
>
> GEO-6
>
>
>
> *De :* joost schouppe [mailto:joost.schou...@gmail.com]
> *Envoyé :* mardi 4 octobre 2016 19:59
> *À :* OpenStreetMap Belgium
> *Objet :* [OSM-talk-be] a slightly more formal meetup
>
>
>
> Hi,
>
>
>
> I'm very happy to see another bar meetup in Brussels! [1] You should all
> come :)
>
>
>
> But would anyone be interested in a little more formal thing? I believe it
> was in Hungaria where they frequently do meetups with two or three
> presentations, roughly related to OpenStreetMap. They always get about 50
> participants, which sounds great. Don't worry, there would be beers and
> lemonades afterwards.
>
>
>
> The logical place would be Brussels, as it is the most central location.
> It takes a little more time and effort to organize, but I think some of the
> amazing Brussels based people might be interested to help out.
>
>
>
> Anyway, I made a framadate to check if anyone is interested, and if so,
> when [2]. Interested to find out if anyone is willing to help or present
> something.
>
>
>
> We can of course discuss the idea over a geuze at the next Brussels meetup.
>
>
>
>
>
> 1: http://www.meetup.com/OpenStreetMap-Belgium/events/234599761/
>
> 2: https://framadate.org/74wPQ5W8AVKNUhjp
>
>
>
> --
>
> Joost @
>
> Openstreetmap  |
> Twitter  | LinkedIn
>  | Meetup
> 
>
>
>
>
>
> ___
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>


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Re: [OSM-talk-be] a slightly more formal meetup

[Jonathan Beliën]

Hi everyone,

 

Awesome idea !

 

Not very comfortable (yet ?) to give a talk ;

But I live in Brussels so I could totally help to organise the thing (find a 
place, …) !

 

Jonathan Beliën

GEO-6

 

De : joost schouppe [mailto:joost.schou...@gmail.com] 
Envoyé : mardi 4 octobre 2016 19:59
À : OpenStreetMap Belgium
Objet : [OSM-talk-be] a slightly more formal meetup

 

Hi,

 

I'm very happy to see another bar meetup in Brussels! [1] You should all come :)

 

But would anyone be interested in a little more formal thing? I believe it was 
in Hungaria where they frequently do meetups with two or three presentations, 
roughly related to OpenStreetMap. They always get about 50 participants, which 
sounds great. Don't worry, there would be beers and lemonades afterwards. 

 

The logical place would be Brussels, as it is the most central location. It 
takes a little more time and effort to organize, but I think some of the 
amazing Brussels based people might be interested to help out.

 

Anyway, I made a framadate to check if anyone is interested, and if so, when 
[2]. Interested to find out if anyone is willing to help or present something.

 

We can of course discuss the idea over a geuze at the next Brussels meetup.

 

 

1: http://www.meetup.com/OpenStreetMap-Belgium/events/234599761/

2: https://framadate.org/74wPQ5W8AVKNUhjp

 

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