Re: [OSM-talk-be] Fwd: [OSM-talk] Upcoming removal of landuse=farm in the standard style

[joost schouppe]

> My garden is a forest (really) and also, well, my garden; and then also
part
> of a residential area.

You could use the all of the following tags on the area of your garden:

landuse=residential
leisure=garden
access=private
landcover=trees
leaf_cycle=
leaf_type=

as a wrote a few months before, each piece of ground should have a
landuse and a landcover tag and optionally a leisure tag.


I do like the elegance of that. It makes multi use rarer. Still, in some
cases, there might be two uses which are really both within the same main
key. E.g. where I live is officially "parktuin", basically the government
explicitly states that the area should be residential and forest at the
same time. It is not residential which happens to have a lot of trees.

That is just an example. Basically I would wish we had a wiki page as
detailed as the one about bicycle lane tagging for landuse and related
stuff.
___
Talk-be mailing list
Talk-be@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be

Re: [OSM-talk-be] Fwd: [OSM-talk] Upcoming removal of landuse=farm in the standard style

[Marc Gemis]

On Sun, Mar 26, 2017 at 9:39 PM, joost schouppe
 wrote:
> My garden is a forest (really) and also, well, my garden; and then also part
> of a residential area.

You could use the all of the following tags on the area of your garden:

landuse=residential
leisure=garden
access=private
landcover=trees
leaf_cycle=
leaf_type=

as a wrote a few months before, each piece of ground should have a
landuse and a landcover tag and optionally a leisure tag.

m.

___
Talk-be mailing list
Talk-be@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be

Re: [OSM-talk-be] Fwd: [OSM-talk] Upcoming removal of landuse=farm in the standard style

[Marc Gemis]

On Sun, Mar 26, 2017 at 9:29 PM, Karel Adams  wrote:
> Better to give less but reliable detail. "landuse=meadow" could be used in
> some specific cases, like aerodromes.

and fields where they keep cows, horses, or sheep.

___
Talk-be mailing list
Talk-be@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be

Re: [OSM-talk-be] OSM + OsGeo

[Jonathan Beliën]

Could not have said it better !

As I use OSGEO tools and OpenStreetMap database on a daily basis, I 
could not be more happy if the two of us join our forces !


Maë//e told us you use you wiki page for your events : 
http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Belgium#2017
If you agree, I'll add your OSGEOBE events to Maptime Belgium 
(http://maptime.io/belgium/) starting by next OSGEODevEvening !


And I could help with events about web cartography (OpenLayers, Leaflet, 
MapServer, ...).



Jonathan

Le 26-03-17 à 21:15, joost schouppe a écrit :

Hi,

Even though we're natural partners, we don't do that much together. 
After the National Mapathon, Jonathan, Maelle and myself had a few 
beers and a long talk. It convinced me that we could do more.


I would like to propose two things:

- at OSM Belgium, we use Meetup [1] to organize all our events. But we 
publish all of them at our Maptime [2] page too. How about we share 
the Maptime page to announce both OSM and OsGeo events?


- Maptime is actually supposed to be about easy events where you 
actually learn to do some webmapping. For example, learning how to 
make a Leaflet map. We would like to organize a little event where you 
can learn how to build a simple map with Overpass-Turbo [3], Umap [4] 
or Mapcontrib [5]. All very userfriendly, but still quite powerful. I 
think it would be an excellent thing to do together, because we could 
recruit people that tend more towards data-collection for 
OpenStreetMap Belgium and those that are more interested in open 
source software for OsGeo.


Also, I think it would be very fun to do.

Because it is within the scope of the Maptime project, we could get 
Free Pizza (sponsored by Carto, former CartoDB). Who doesn't like free 
pizza?


Anyway, share your thoughts, and efforts :)


1: https://meetup.com/OpenStreetMap-Belgium/
2: http://maptime.io/belgium/
3: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Overpass_turbo
4: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/UMap
5: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/MapContrib

--
Joost Schouppe
OpenStreetMap  | 
Twitter  | LinkedIn 
 | Meetup 




___
Talk-be mailing list
Talk-be@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be


___
Talk-be mailing list
Talk-be@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be

Re: [OSM-talk-be] New traffic sign for bicycle

[André Pirard]

On 2017-03-26 18:10, André Pirard wrote:
> On 2017-03-25 17:49, Marc Gemis wrote:
>> the problem with a subtag is that you cannot use it in combination
>> with oneway. Now you can map it as oneway:moped_A/B/P = yes
> Yes we can, as: :moped:A=yes
I meant  oneway:moped:A=yes  of course.
> When using namespace ,
> ":A" means a qualifier of what is before it, "moped", meaning which
> part of the mopeds we are talking about: "a moped of class A". And
> "moped:A" applies to "oneway", which part of the vehicles one-way is for.
> Unfortunately, as often with OSM docs, that article isn't very clear
> that namespace can be multilevel and in what order.
> The worst of it is that some contributors don't like namespace and
> scold those who speak about it, saying "we don't do like that" (who is
> "we"?).
>
> Cheers
>
> André.
>
>
>> On Tue, Mar 21, 2017 at 8:47 AM, Santens Seppe  
>> wrote:
>>> Am I correct moped_A and moped_B are only used in Belgium? Can we have a 
>>> moped_P? Or would it be better to review the moped tag and make it 
>>> something like moped=yes + moped:A=yes + moped:P=yes?
>>> (by the way, a lot of new class A + P exception signs will be introduced in 
>>> the city of Ghent on 03/04/2017)
>>>
>>> Seppe
>>>
>>>
>>> -Oorspronkelijk bericht-
>>> Van: Marc Gemis [mailto:marc.ge...@gmail.com]
>>> Verzonden: vrijdag 17 maart 2017 14:36
>>> Aan: Jakka; OpenStreetMap Belgium
>>> Onderwerp: Re: [OSM-talk-be] New traffic sign for bicycle
>>>
>>> How do we map the "P" category ? We already have moped_A and moped_B.
>>>
>>> m
>>>
>>> 2017-03-17 12:53 GMT+01:00 Jakka :
 Nouveaux panneaux de signalisation pour les deux-roues
 http://www.code-de-la-route.be/textes-legaux/sections/ar/code-de-la-route/248-art65

 Nieuwe verkeers- onderborden voor tweewielers onder de aandacht brengen.
 http://wegcode.be/wetteksten/secties/kb/wegcode/248-art65

>
>
>
> ___
> Talk-be mailing list
> Talk-be@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be

___
Talk-be mailing list
Talk-be@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be

Re: [OSM-talk-be] Fwd: [OSM-talk] Upcoming removal of landuse=farm in the standard style

[joost schouppe]

>
> Teach me how I can determine the right tags from imagery. During my
> lunch break today I was working on the area south of the Pierstraat
> and north of Voetweg 32 http://osm.org/go/0EpHov3c-- and further to
> the east/north east.
> I wonder which tags others would use for the areas covered with grass.
> Are there people that are immediately convinced that those areas are
> meadows ? Or are you in doubt, perhaps just grass, or even
> recreational areas (west of the soccer field) ?
>

The wiki isn't very clear to me... For example, what is the difference
between landuse=meadow+meadow=perpetual and natural=grassland? Landuse
implies human influence, but the perpetual is for places where grass is
naturally dominant. What? So it's grassland that is intensely used by
humans, but you should know it would be a grassland even if people stopped
using it? That doesn't sound interesting or common to me. Most people who
use that tag should probably have used natural=grassland.

Anyway, I have a double approach to this kind of problem personally. Feel
free to criticize it :)

The first is to not care too much, and use the tag as I see it used. In
this case, meadow seems to be something quite broad according to the wiki
and in current use in Belgium something grassy that has something to do
with agriculture. The western part of your example looks like meadows to
me. The part near the soccer field looks like having some leisure function
as you say.

The second is to try and improve tagging practices. But that is a long,
painful and boring process. I always find much more fun things to do :)


> I would be nice to have an easy way to ask for the proper landuse tags
> by posting pictures.
>
> There was a German project where they asked mappers input about grassy
areas, right? Only based on what was already mapped, not pictures. I think
it's an interesting idea to this. I agree that the whole
landuse/leisure/landcover tagging is a mess. Maybe doing a kind of survey
with a few difficult cases might help in opening up the discussion to a
wider audience.



> A recent problem I had was to tag
> https://xian.smugmug.com/OSM/OSM-2016/2016-11-20-Vremde/i-L3kGV6K  Is
> this really a meadow ? Can have a meadow so many trees ? Or is it an
> orchard (I don't know a lot about trees), with a lot of grass ?
>

This is in fact a problem of another order I think. This place simply has
two uses. Those are always hard in OSM in my opinion. We just saw a
florist+bar combination today in Brussels. My garden is a forest (really)
and also, well, my garden; and then also part of a residential area. I
think the need to classify something as "one thing only" has its limits.
Sometimes you have to just admit there is no good solution if you try that.
So it either becomes a X with Y, or a Y with X, or maybe an x with a nearby
y. Reality is messy like that :)

I do think that Karel's point that "landuse changes all the time" is
relevant. I agree that a vague but correct general tag is better than a
wrong specific tag. And the crops do change all the time. But changing from
meadow to cropland is not that common in my experience, and it is in fact
regulated by the government. I also think that slightly outdated landuse
might be an excellent trigger for a user to finally decide "oh, that's
annoying, but I think I can fix that myself".




-- 
Joost Schouppe
OpenStreetMap  |
Twitter  | LinkedIn
 | Meetup

___
Talk-be mailing list
Talk-be@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be

Re: [OSM-talk-be] Fwd: [OSM-talk] Upcoming removal of landuse=farm in the standard style

[Karel Adams]

On 26/03/17 19:10, Marc Gemis wrote:

here is another example I met today

location : http://osm.org/go/0ErT_~pXR-?m=
picture: https://xian.smugmug.com/OSM/OSM-2017/2017-03-26-Dessel/i-VvGqfPV/A

It's clear that the left part on the picture (north on the map) is
cultivated land, the grass is greener. I assume it is
landuse=farmland. I doubt it's meadow, as there is no fence, so you
can't keep cows on it. I think it's grass now, but they will place
some crop on it later on in the season.

The part on the right is clearly different. More like
natural=grassland. There were even some boundary stone separating both
areas. How should I map the southern part ? I don't think it's a
meadow nor a land to grow crop.


It has already been pointed out: landuse is not a constant. What is 
cropped for hay one year can be growing beetroot or potatoes the year 
after and later still become pasture. Unless one is prepared to look 
over each single bit of farmland at least once per year (for which I do 
not think we are in sufficient numbers today) my vote is for only 
tagging landuse=agricultural or landuse=farmland. Better to give less 
but reliable detail. "landuse=meadow" could be used in some specific 
cases, like aerodromes. And even then: the bit of land at 
#map=18/51.21083/5.47755, South of the runway, is left barren some 
years, in other years the owner (who also owns the little airfield) will 
grow maize on it. The bits east and west of the runway could be mapped 
as "meadow" though, they are presently tagged "farmland".


KA

PS Pour la petite histoire: I once came close to flying INTO the maize - 
that runway is awfully short, and the bit of wood further to the South 
is very good for creating turbulence...


m.

On Fri, Mar 24, 2017 at 7:29 PM, Marc Gemis  wrote:

On Fri, Mar 24, 2017 at 5:04 PM, joost schouppe
 wrote:

Please help me with the cleanup of the area around Reet. I honestly
cannot remap all landuse=farm there based on imagery, although I know
the area more or less. :-)


I'll have a look :)
What would you prefer for "unsure from imagery"? Just nothing, or a polygon
tagged fixme? Or something else?


Teach me how I can determine the right tags from imagery. During my
lunch break today I was working on the area south of the Pierstraat
and north of Voetweg 32 http://osm.org/go/0EpHov3c-- and further to
the east/north east.
I wonder which tags others would use for the areas covered with grass.
Are there people that are immediately convinced that those areas are
meadows ? Or are you in doubt, perhaps just grass, or even
recreational areas (west of the soccer field) ?

I am mostly interested how other people decide the right
landuse/landcover/natural tag.
Even with pictures from surveys I wonder which tags I should use. What
for areas that are clearly meant for keeping horses, or wet meadows.
There are so many tags to chose from.

A recent problem I had was to tag
https://xian.smugmug.com/OSM/OSM-2016/2016-11-20-Vremde/i-L3kGV6K  Is
this really a meadow ? Can have a meadow so many trees ? Or is it an
orchard (I don't know a lot about trees), with a lot of grass ?

I would be nice to have an easy way to ask for the proper landuse tags
by posting pictures.

m.

___
Talk-be mailing list
Talk-be@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be



___
Talk-be mailing list
Talk-be@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be

[OSM-talk-be] OSM + OsGeo

[joost schouppe]

Hi,

Even though we're natural partners, we don't do that much together. After
the National Mapathon, Jonathan, Maelle and myself had a few beers and a
long talk. It convinced me that we could do more.

I would like to propose two things:

- at OSM Belgium, we use Meetup [1] to organize all our events. But we
publish all of them at our Maptime [2] page too. How about we share the
Maptime page to announce both OSM and OsGeo events?

- Maptime is actually supposed to be about easy events where you actually
learn to do some webmapping. For example, learning how to make a Leaflet
map. We would like to organize a little event where you can learn how to
build a simple map with Overpass-Turbo [3], Umap [4] or Mapcontrib [5]. All
very userfriendly, but still quite powerful. I think it would be an
excellent thing to do together, because we could recruit people that tend
more towards data-collection for OpenStreetMap Belgium and those that are
more interested in open source software for OsGeo.

Also, I think it would be very fun to do.

Because it is within the scope of the Maptime project, we could get Free
Pizza (sponsored by Carto, former CartoDB). Who doesn't like free pizza?

Anyway, share your thoughts, and efforts :)


1: https://meetup.com/OpenStreetMap-Belgium/
2: http://maptime.io/belgium/
3: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Overpass_turbo
4: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/UMap
5: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/MapContrib

-- 
Joost Schouppe
OpenStreetMap  |
Twitter  | LinkedIn
 | Meetup

___
Talk-be mailing list
Talk-be@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be

Re: [OSM-talk-be] Fwd: [OSM-talk] Upcoming removal of landuse=farm in the standard style

[Marc Gemis]

here is another example I met today

location : http://osm.org/go/0ErT_~pXR-?m=
picture: https://xian.smugmug.com/OSM/OSM-2017/2017-03-26-Dessel/i-VvGqfPV/A

It's clear that the left part on the picture (north on the map) is
cultivated land, the grass is greener. I assume it is
landuse=farmland. I doubt it's meadow, as there is no fence, so you
can't keep cows on it. I think it's grass now, but they will place
some crop on it later on in the season.

The part on the right is clearly different. More like
natural=grassland. There were even some boundary stone separating both
areas. How should I map the southern part ? I don't think it's a
meadow nor a land to grow crop.

m.

On Fri, Mar 24, 2017 at 7:29 PM, Marc Gemis  wrote:
> On Fri, Mar 24, 2017 at 5:04 PM, joost schouppe
>  wrote:
>>>
>>> Please help me with the cleanup of the area around Reet. I honestly
>>> cannot remap all landuse=farm there based on imagery, although I know
>>> the area more or less. :-)
>>
>>
>> I'll have a look :)
>> What would you prefer for "unsure from imagery"? Just nothing, or a polygon
>> tagged fixme? Or something else?
>>
>
> Teach me how I can determine the right tags from imagery. During my
> lunch break today I was working on the area south of the Pierstraat
> and north of Voetweg 32 http://osm.org/go/0EpHov3c-- and further to
> the east/north east.
> I wonder which tags others would use for the areas covered with grass.
> Are there people that are immediately convinced that those areas are
> meadows ? Or are you in doubt, perhaps just grass, or even
> recreational areas (west of the soccer field) ?
>
> I am mostly interested how other people decide the right
> landuse/landcover/natural tag.
> Even with pictures from surveys I wonder which tags I should use. What
> for areas that are clearly meant for keeping horses, or wet meadows.
> There are so many tags to chose from.
>
> A recent problem I had was to tag
> https://xian.smugmug.com/OSM/OSM-2016/2016-11-20-Vremde/i-L3kGV6K  Is
> this really a meadow ? Can have a meadow so many trees ? Or is it an
> orchard (I don't know a lot about trees), with a lot of grass ?
>
> I would be nice to have an easy way to ask for the proper landuse tags
> by posting pictures.
>
> m.

___
Talk-be mailing list
Talk-be@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be

Re: [OSM-talk-be] New traffic sign for bicycle

[André Pirard]

On 2017-03-25 17:49, Marc Gemis wrote:
> the problem with a subtag is that you cannot use it in combination
> with oneway. Now you can map it as oneway:moped_A/B/P = yes
Yes we can, as: :moped:A=yes
When using namespace ,
":A" means a qualifier of what is before it, "moped", meaning which part
of the mopeds we are talking about "a moped of class A". And "moped:A"
applies to "oneway", which part of the vehicles one-way is for.
Unfortunately, as often with OSM docs, that article isn't very clear
that namespace can be multilevel and in what order.
The worst of it is that some contributors don't like namespace and scold
those who speak about it, saying "we don't do like that" (who is "we"?).

Cheers

André.






>
> On Tue, Mar 21, 2017 at 8:47 AM, Santens Seppe  
> wrote:
>> Am I correct moped_A and moped_B are only used in Belgium? Can we have a 
>> moped_P? Or would it be better to review the moped tag and make it something 
>> like moped=yes + moped:A=yes + moped:P=yes?
>> (by the way, a lot of new class A + P exception signs will be introduced in 
>> the city of Ghent on 03/04/2017)
>>
>> Seppe
>>
>>
>> -Oorspronkelijk bericht-
>> Van: Marc Gemis [mailto:marc.ge...@gmail.com]
>> Verzonden: vrijdag 17 maart 2017 14:36
>> Aan: Jakka; OpenStreetMap Belgium
>> Onderwerp: Re: [OSM-talk-be] New traffic sign for bicycle
>>
>> How do we map the "P" category ? We already have moped_A and moped_B.
>>
>> m
>>
>> 2017-03-17 12:53 GMT+01:00 Jakka :
>>> Nouveaux panneaux de signalisation pour les deux-roues
>>> http://www.code-de-la-route.be/textes-legaux/sections/ar/code-de-la-route/248-art65
>>>
>>> Nieuwe verkeers- onderborden voor tweewielers onder de aandacht brengen.
>>> http://wegcode.be/wetteksten/secties/kb/wegcode/248-art65
>>>

___
Talk-be mailing list
Talk-be@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be

Re: [OSM-talk-be] Addr Import

[Glenn Plas]

On 26-03-17 16:43, Glenn Plas wrote:
> Hallo Lodde,
> 
> Sander zijn tool is niet up to date, je kan deze URL gebruiken voor
> up-to-date data
> 
> http://aptum.bitless.be/

Ik heb mijn versie aangepast, deze draait op 2 servers in parallel en
1tje ervan had een probleem, bij deze zou je nu bovenaan dit zien staan:

Please read the documentation before using this import site
Data extraction date: 2017-03-10 - parser output - new streets - deleted
streets

Dat is de laatste versie van de data import.

Glenn

___
Talk-be mailing list
Talk-be@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be

Re: [OSM-talk-be] Addr Import

[Glenn Plas]

Hallo Lodde,

Sander zijn tool is niet up to date, je kan deze URL gebruiken voor
up-to-date data

http://aptum.bitless.be/

Glenn

On 15-03-17 17:13, Louis van Boeckel wrote:
> Wat is er mis met import, krijg altijd *Data extraction date:* 2015-03-02
> 
> lodde
> 
> 
> 
> Avast logo
> 
>   
> 
> Dit e-mailbericht is gecontroleerd op virussen met Avast antivirussoftware.
> www.avast.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> Talk-be mailing list
> Talk-be@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
> 


___
Talk-be mailing list
Talk-be@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be

[OSM-talk-be] Mapathon RightsCon

[Jorieke Vyncke]

Hello all!

There will be a HOT mapathon next Friday the 31th of march from 13h15 -
14h30 at rightscon (https://www.rightscon.org/). This in collaboration with
Mapbox,  Rebuilding Alliance and the Palestinian Authority.

Lionel and I will allready help them out with teaching/guiding, but we
could use more teachers. Somebody up for it? Please get in touch with me.

Best greetings,

Jorieke
___
Talk-be mailing list
Talk-be@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be