Re: [OSM-talk-be] CORINE Land Cover 2000 (now with permission)

[Mathias Versichele]

+1

2010/6/7 Luc Van den Troost 

> As it starts to be an early voting here, +1 for me too, at least for the
> areas with low areal resolution.
> For the areas with high res areal images we probably have to look first
> what areas have a good landuse definitions right now. Based on images and
> personal knowledge they might be much more precise and detailed than corine.
>
> Just one remark regarding rendering. Landuse rendering seems too dominant
> on certain zoom-levels now.
> I noticed it near the french border here:
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=49.8146&lon=4.9209&zoom=12&layers=B000FTF
> At this zoom level, even tertiary roads, that should be rather clear, fade
> away in the dark green forest area.
>
> Luc / Speedy
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 7, 2010 at 7:37 PM, Renaud MICHEL 
> 
> > wrote:
>
>> Le lundi 07 juin 2010 à 14:42, Ben Laenen a écrit :
>> > Lennard wrote:
>> > > Now that the legal issues have been resolved, and the technical setup
>> > > has been mostly performed, the question remains about whether to
>> > > proceed with an actual import? Don't worry about it happening
>> > > overnight, we have plenty of time to discuss and review the steps
>> > > involved.
>> >
>> > +1 for importing from me as well.
>>
>> +1 for me too.
>>
>> --
>> Renaud Michel
>>
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] CORINE Land Cover 2000 (now with permission)

[Luc Van den Troost]

As it starts to be an early voting here, +1 for me too, at least for the
areas with low areal resolution.
For the areas with high res areal images we probably have to look first what
areas have a good landuse definitions right now. Based on images and
personal knowledge they might be much more precise and detailed than corine.

Just one remark regarding rendering. Landuse rendering seems too dominant on
certain zoom-levels now.
I noticed it near the french border here:
http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=49.8146&lon=4.9209&zoom=12&layers=B000FTF
At this zoom level, even tertiary roads, that should be rather clear, fade
away in the dark green forest area.

Luc / Speedy

On Mon, Jun 7, 2010 at 7:37 PM, Renaud MICHEL

> wrote:

> Le lundi 07 juin 2010 à 14:42, Ben Laenen a écrit :
> > Lennard wrote:
> > > Now that the legal issues have been resolved, and the technical setup
> > > has been mostly performed, the question remains about whether to
> > > proceed with an actual import? Don't worry about it happening
> > > overnight, we have plenty of time to discuss and review the steps
> > > involved.
> >
> > +1 for importing from me as well.
>
> +1 for me too.
>
> --
> Renaud Michel
>
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] CORINE Land Cover 2000 (now with permission)

[Renaud MICHEL]

Le lundi 07 juin 2010 à 14:42, Ben Laenen a écrit :
> Lennard wrote:
> > Now that the legal issues have been resolved, and the technical setup
> > has been mostly performed, the question remains about whether to
> > proceed with an actual import? Don't worry about it happening
> > overnight, we have plenty of time to discuss and review the steps
> > involved.
> 
> +1 for importing from me as well.

+1 for me too.

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Re: [OSM-talk-be] CORINE Land Cover 2000 (now with permission)

[Ben Laenen]

Lennard wrote:
> Now that the legal issues have been resolved, and the technical setup
> has been mostly performed, the question remains about whether to proceed
> with an actual import? Don't worry about it happening overnight, we have
> plenty of time to discuss and review the steps involved.

+1 for importing from me as well.

The data may indeed not be too accurate, but currently we have nothing better 
for most places where there's no Yahoo imagery available.

Greetings
Ben

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Re: [OSM-talk-be] CORINE Land Cover 2000 (now with permission)

[wannes]

2010/6/4 Lennard 

>
> There is now a blanket permission from the EEA to use any data available
> through the EEA website. This includes Corine Land Cover 2000
>
> Now that the legal issues have been resolved, and the technical setup
> has been mostly performed, the question remains about whether to proceed
> with an actual import? Don't worry about it happening overnight, we have
> plenty of time to discuss and review the steps involved.
>

Yes, please.

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Re: [OSM-talk-be] CORINE Land Cover 2000 (now with permission)

[Lennard]

On 18-5-2010 2:04, Ben Laenen wrote:

> OSM just works like that: start with big things and then get more and
> more detailed. For 70% of the country Corine is better than existing
> data, and I welcome anything which is an improvement.

There is now a blanket permission from the EEA to use any data available 
through the EEA website. This includes Corine Land Cover 2000

http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/imports/2010-June/000594.html

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/European_Environment_Agency

I have the necessary databases set up and the relevant scripts from the 
French CLC import on my computer, and can work on generating a test 
import file. I could also generate an overlay showing the result of the 
import file, after filtering out CLC polygons that overlap with existing 
OSM polygons.

Ben had the notion that perhaps we should, before the import, delete 
inaccurate polygons, especially in the Ardennes. The proposed overlays 
could assist in determining whether that is necessary, and if so, at 
which scale.

Now that the legal issues have been resolved, and the technical setup 
has been mostly performed, the question remains about whether to proceed 
with an actual import? Don't worry about it happening overnight, we have 
plenty of time to discuss and review the steps involved.

-- 
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] CORINE Land Cover 2000

[Martijn van Exel]

On Wed, May 19, 2010 at 9:33 AM, Lennard  wrote:
> On 19-5-2010 7:01, Martijn van Exel wrote:
>
>> can say is that he was not quite sure about the status of CORINE 2006
>> - as far as I can see it is included in
>>
>> http://www.eea.europa.eu/data-and-maps/data/corine-land-cover-2006-clc2006-100-m-version-12-2009
>> but I might not be quite sure what is being meant here.
>
> What you see there is a bitmapped version of CLC 2006, with 100 m
> resolution. There is also a 250 m version there, and bitmapped images of the
> changes going from 2000 to 2006.
>
> The seamless vector data, however, is not available, and that is the version
> we would need.
>
Oh of course. I did not notice that this was only the raster dataset
provided here.
Martijn

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Re: [OSM-talk-be] CORINE Land Cover 2000

[Lennard]

On 19-5-2010 7:01, Martijn van Exel wrote:

> can say is that he was not quite sure about the status of CORINE 2006
> - as far as I can see it is included in
> http://www.eea.europa.eu/data-and-maps/data/corine-land-cover-2006-clc2006-100-m-version-12-2009
> but I might not be quite sure what is being meant here.

What you see there is a bitmapped version of CLC 2006, with 100 m 
resolution. There is also a 250 m version there, and bitmapped images of 
the changes going from 2000 to 2006.

The seamless vector data, however, is not available, and that is the 
version we would need.

-- 
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] CORINE Land Cover 2000

[Nicolas Pettiaux]

2010/5/19 Martijn van Exel :
> Hi Nicolas and others,
>
> I spoke to Guido d'Hoker (g...@ngi.be) in IGN/NGI yesterday and all I
> can say is that he was not quite sure about the status of CORINE 2006
> - as far as I can see it is included in
> http://www.eea.europa.eu/data-and-maps/data/corine-land-cover-2006-clc2006-100-m-version-12-2009
> but I might not be quite sure what is being meant here.

I'll let you investigate further.

>Anyway, with
> regard to licensing issues feel free to contact him directly, he can
> put you in touch with the right people.

have you got a direct telephone number that you could send me
privately ? (otherwise I'll go to the IGN website)

I would like to discuss the availability of some (all ?) of the datas
of IGN under free licences (aka compatible with osm).

Thanks,

Nicolas
> Martijn
>
>
> martijn van exel +++ m...@rtijn.org
> laziness - impatience - hubris
> http://schaaltreinen.nl/
> twitter / skype: mvexel
> flickr: rhodes
>
>
>
> On Sun, May 16, 2010 at 10:58 PM, Nicolas Pettiaux  
> wrote:
>> 2010/5/16 Martijn van Exel :
>>> BTW, nice work on the overlay. I think it looks super sweet especially on 
>>> lower zoom levels.
>>> I will be at IGN this week and try and talk to some people there.
>>
>> let us know what comes out : could you ask who we should contact, what
>> are the blocking points for ING to release its data as the French and
>> British did ?
>>
>> THanks,
>>
>> Nicolas
>>
>> --
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>> April - « promouvoir et défendre le logiciel libre » - www.april.org
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] CORINE Land Cover 2000

[Martijn van Exel]

Hi Nicolas and others,

I spoke to Guido d'Hoker (g...@ngi.be) in IGN/NGI yesterday and all I
can say is that he was not quite sure about the status of CORINE 2006
- as far as I can see it is included in
http://www.eea.europa.eu/data-and-maps/data/corine-land-cover-2006-clc2006-100-m-version-12-2009
but I might not be quite sure what is being meant here. Anyway, with
regard to licensing issues feel free to contact him directly, he can
put you in touch with the right people.

Martijn


martijn van exel +++ m...@rtijn.org
laziness - impatience - hubris
http://schaaltreinen.nl/
twitter / skype: mvexel
flickr: rhodes



On Sun, May 16, 2010 at 10:58 PM, Nicolas Pettiaux  wrote:
> 2010/5/16 Martijn van Exel :
>> BTW, nice work on the overlay. I think it looks super sweet especially on 
>> lower zoom levels.
>> I will be at IGN this week and try and talk to some people there.
>
> let us know what comes out : could you ask who we should contact, what
> are the blocking points for ING to release its data as the French and
> British did ?
>
> THanks,
>
> Nicolas
>
> --
> Nicolas Pettiaux, dr. sc. - Gsm 0496 24 55 01
> April - « promouvoir et défendre le logiciel libre » - www.april.org
>
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] CORINE Land Cover 2000

[Ben Laenen]

On 5/17/10, Kenny Knecht  wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I also looked at this import but I abandoned it for several reasons:
>
>- 25ha may be good for France or even Holland but for a region like
>Flanders it is simply too big: we have no land use planning (ruimtelijke
>ordening) here whatsoever. So land use tends to be small scattered
> patches.
>- The French conducted this import with the rule: if there is more than
>2% overlap with an existing region, the CORINE data will not be imported.
>This is very crude and you will miss some good data, but I understand the
>reasoning: overwriting the knowledge of local mappers should be avoided.

The idea is that you manually check the areas where Corine didn't
overwrite existing data. So this data can be added later. Albeit with
a little work.

>- The last two reasons show that this import will result in data which
>will be far from perfect, but imported data will work discouraging for
>corrections:if something is present people tend to have respect for it
> and
>not change it, they tend not even to question it.

Then work on changing the mindset of mappers? I don't see this really
as an existing problem anyway. I’ve seen big things changing on the
map before which wouldn’t happen if the mapper was scared of changing
something. Sometimes I even think that some mappers should be a little
more carefull.

And there are already some big polygons with landuse like the forests
in the Ardennes. So why would this just be a problem of Corine and not
the existing data?


> To sum it up: although it might seem great to have all this colour on our
> map within a few hours, we should very carefully consider it. There are
> numerous examples of hasty imports which introduced some strange quirks,
> quirks which are very hard to get rid of afterwards.

I agree the data isn't perfect. But I don't see better options to get
data like this in areas where yahoo satellite images aren't available
for now. And for most of those areas it will actually enhance the
existing landuse which is now usually very crudely drawn.

If somehow at a later date better data becomes available, it’s always
possible to remove Corine again.

OSM just works like that: start with big things and then get more and
more detailed. For 70% of the country Corine is better than existing
data, and I welcome anything which is an improvement.

Greetings
Ben

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Re: [OSM-talk-be] CORINE Land Cover 2000

[Kenny Knecht]

Hi,

I also looked at this import but I abandoned it for several reasons:

   - 25ha may be good for France or even Holland but for a region like
   Flanders it is simply too big: we have no land use planning (ruimtelijke
   ordening) here whatsoever. So land use tends to be small scattered patches.
   - The French conducted this import with the rule: if there is more than
   2% overlap with an existing region, the CORINE data will not be imported.
   This is very crude and you will miss some good data, but I understand the
   reasoning: overwriting the knowledge of local mappers should be avoided.
   - The last two reasons show that this import will result in data which
   will be far from perfect, but imported data will work discouraging for
   corrections:if something is present people tend to have respect for it and
   not change it, they tend not even to question it.

To sum it up: although it might seem great to have all this colour on our
map within a few hours, we should very carefully consider it. There are
numerous examples of hasty imports which introduced some strange quirks,
quirks which are very hard to get rid of afterwards.

Kenny


2010/5/16 Lennard 

> As some of you may know, last year the French have imported the CORINE
> Land Cover 2006 (CLC 2006) dataset. This dataset aims to classify every
> bit of surface of the participating countries. It is a project of the
> European Environment Agency (EEA) in conjunction with national mapping
> agencies. For Belgium, I believe this would be the NGI/IGN.
>
> While they did get approval to import their CLC 2006 dataset, getting
> approval from the NGI/IGN in Belgium would probably be problematic, and
> actually getting the data from them even worse. Although, if we don't
> ask, we'll never know for sure. (Anyone up for contacting them?)
>
> However, the CLC 2000 dataset is fully available on the EEA website, and
> has usage terms that seem to be very compatible with OSM.
>
> "Unless otherwise indicated, re-use of content on the EEA website for
> commercial or non-commercial purposes is permitted free of charge,
> provided that the source is acknowledged."
>
> On IRC, someone wanted to contact the EEA explicitly to obtain
> permission (for Belgium, but why not ask this for the entire dataset?).
> I don't see a problem with that, although for me the terms on the EEA
> site are clear.
>
> I have made an overlay which shows the CLC 2000 data on the OSM map:
>
> http://mijndev.openstreetmap.nl/~ldp/clc2000/
>
> This is so you can already enjoy what we may be able to import, and
> maybe use it as a backdrop in Potlatch/JOSM or other editors to use. I
> don't recommend actually tracing the polygons, as a direct import is
> much easier.
>
> The amount of changes between CLC 2000 and CLC 2006 is on the order of
> 0.5% over the entire covered region. The overwhelming amount of polygons
> would be unchanged. I think there's not much harm in working with CLC
> 2000, even if it is 10+ years old.
>
> I have received the scripts used for the French CLC 2006 import, and can
> adapt and use those for an import of CLC 2000 for any area. I'm going to
> test them and prepare an import file for Belgium, which can be imported
> later on, if no valid objections are lodged.
>
>
> --
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] CORINE Land Cover 2000

[Ben Laenen]

On 5/16/10, Martijn van Exel  wrote:
> If it would be actually useful is another matter altogether. I think it
> would look nice on lower zoom levels, and could be useful as a starting
> point for individual mappers to improve upon, but more detailed data may
> already be available which would make a blanket import action undesirable.

That depends on the location of course. In areas where we have Yahoo
imagery the existing landuse is usually much more detailed than
Corine. Other areas, like the forests drawn in the Ardennes, are less
accurate. And in many of those places we’d never be able to reach the
accuracy of Corine without satellite images or other datasets.

I also wonder whether it would be a good idea to delete some of the
less detailed landuse polygons beforehand if the import goes ahead.

Ben

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Re: [OSM-talk-be] CORINE Land Cover 2000

[Lennard]

On 16-5-2010 21:47, Lennard wrote:

> The amount of changes between CLC 2000 and CLC 2006 is on the order of
> 0.5% over the entire covered region. The overwhelming amount of polygons
> would be unchanged. I think there's not much harm in working with CLC
> 2000, even if it is 10+ years old.

To follow up this part, a list of project details, including a contact 
person and the changes between CLC 1990 and CLC 2000. If we extrapolate 
the amount of changes for the 2000-2006 update, we can see that overall 
the 2000 data would still be pretty valid.

http://etc-lusi.eionet.europa.eu/CLC2000/countries/be/full

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Re: [OSM-talk-be] CORINE Land Cover 2000

[Lennard]

On 16-5-2010 22:58, Nicolas Pettiaux wrote:

> let us know what comes out : could you ask who we should contact, what
> are the blocking points for ING to release its data as the French and
> British did ?

I'm not aware of a British release of CLC 2006 data. What has happened 
there is that Ordnance Survey (OS, the British NGI/IGN equivalent), 
after much public and subsequently political demand, has released some 
of their products to the public, including medium scale vector maps.

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Re: [OSM-talk-be] CORINE Land Cover 2000

[Lennard]

On 16-5-2010 22:35, Martijn van Exel wrote:
> I fail to see why there would be a problem, legally, to import
> CORINE if the license is compatible. IGN/NGI would not be a party in
> this, as the EEA licenses CORINE.

The NGI/IGN reference is for the CLC 2006 dataset specifically. The 2006
dataset is not publicly available from the EEA and has to be obtained
through the participating national agencies.

We already received permission to use the CLC 2006 dataset in The
Netherlands, but we then have to buy the actual dataset. The point is
moot, since we already have the much more detailed 3dShapes data. We can
still use CLC (2000) to enrich 3dShapes classifications.

For Belgium, it's different, and any broad addition of land cover to OSM
would mostly be welcomed, I assume.

> If it would be actually useful is another matter altogether. I think
> it would look nice on lower zoom levels, and could be useful as a
> starting point for individual mappers to improve upon, but more
> detailed data may already be available which would make a blanket
> import action undesirable.

That's why we're not aiming for a blanket import, but a directed (but 
still national) import. See my previous reply about the import method 
and the comparison to existing OSM polygons.

-- 
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] CORINE Land Cover 2000

[Lennard]

On 16-5-2010 22:34, Renaud MICHEL wrote:

> Well, there's no harm in asking, but as you say it seems compatible with the
> actual CC-By-SA (but I have no idea for ODBL).

I just learned the question went out, but we have not received an 
answer. That's not so strange, with Ascension Day and a weekend in between.

> It seems like a great idea, how does the import work?
> We have already some data imported in Belgium from the french import, will
> those regions need manual editing to integrate the two imports?
> Should we keep the landuse where they already exists in OSM belgium, or is
> the CORINE data much more accurate and should be preferred?

The CORINE data is not that bad, but is slightly generalised in the 
sense that features smaller than 25 ha are not present, and are rolled 
up as part of a larger area.

The way the import in France was done is to compare the CLC polygons to 
OSM polygons. Only CLC polygons with no overlap or a very small overlap 
to OSM polygons were automatically imported. The non-imported part of 
the dataset was then added to a web service, where each can select and 
export a non-imported polygon and add it to OSM themselves:

http://clc.openstreetmap.fr/


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Re: [OSM-talk-be] CORINE Land Cover 2000

[Nicolas Pettiaux]

2010/5/16 Martijn van Exel :
> BTW, nice work on the overlay. I think it looks super sweet especially on 
> lower zoom levels.
> I will be at IGN this week and try and talk to some people there.

let us know what comes out : could you ask who we should contact, what
are the blocking points for ING to release its data as the French and
British did ?

THanks,

Nicolas

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Re: [OSM-talk-be] CORINE Land Cover 2000

[Martijn van Exel]

BTW, nice work on the overlay. I think it looks super sweet especially on lower 
zoom levels. 
I will be at IGN this week and try and talk to some people there.

Martijn van Exel +++ m...@rtijn.org
Laziness – Impatience – Hubris

http://schaaltreinen.nl
twitter: mvexel
skype: mvexel
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On May 16, 2010, at 9:47 PM, Lennard wrote:

> As some of you may know, last year the French have imported the CORINE 
> Land Cover 2006 (CLC 2006) dataset. This dataset aims to classify every 
> bit of surface of the participating countries. It is a project of the 
> European Environment Agency (EEA) in conjunction with national mapping 
> agencies. For Belgium, I believe this would be the NGI/IGN.
> 
> While they did get approval to import their CLC 2006 dataset, getting 
> approval from the NGI/IGN in Belgium would probably be problematic, and 
> actually getting the data from them even worse. Although, if we don't 
> ask, we'll never know for sure. (Anyone up for contacting them?)
> 
> However, the CLC 2000 dataset is fully available on the EEA website, and 
> has usage terms that seem to be very compatible with OSM.
> 
> "Unless otherwise indicated, re-use of content on the EEA website for 
> commercial or non-commercial purposes is permitted free of charge, 
> provided that the source is acknowledged."
> 
> On IRC, someone wanted to contact the EEA explicitly to obtain 
> permission (for Belgium, but why not ask this for the entire dataset?). 
> I don't see a problem with that, although for me the terms on the EEA 
> site are clear.
> 
> I have made an overlay which shows the CLC 2000 data on the OSM map:
> 
> http://mijndev.openstreetmap.nl/~ldp/clc2000/
> 
> This is so you can already enjoy what we may be able to import, and 
> maybe use it as a backdrop in Potlatch/JOSM or other editors to use. I 
> don't recommend actually tracing the polygons, as a direct import is 
> much easier.
> 
> The amount of changes between CLC 2000 and CLC 2006 is on the order of 
> 0.5% over the entire covered region. The overwhelming amount of polygons 
> would be unchanged. I think there's not much harm in working with CLC 
> 2000, even if it is 10+ years old.
> 
> I have received the scripts used for the French CLC 2006 import, and can 
> adapt and use those for an import of CLC 2000 for any area. I'm going to 
> test them and prepare an import file for Belgium, which can be imported 
> later on, if no valid objections are lodged.
> 
> 
> -- 
> Lennard
> 
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] CORINE Land Cover 2000

[Nicolas Pettiaux]

I know a former director at the Belgian IGN/ING who retired very
recently. I'll call him to know how to proceed to have the best and
most effective results.

Could you please help me by writing all elements (in the OSM wiki)
that could help to support the fact that IGN should release its data
under a compatible with OSM licence eg. by doing like the UK of France
? (a one page summary of facts would be most welcome).

Thanks,

Nicolas

-- 
Nicolas Pettiaux, dr. sc.
April - « promouvoir et défendre le logiciel libre » - www.april.org

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Re: [OSM-talk-be] CORINE Land Cover 2000

[Martijn van Exel]

I fail to see why there would be a problem, legally, to import CORINE if the 
license is compatible. IGN/NGI would not be a party in this, as the EEA 
licenses CORINE.

If it would be actually useful is another matter altogether. I think it would 
look nice on lower zoom levels, and could be useful as a starting point for 
individual mappers to improve upon, but more detailed data may already be 
available which would make a blanket import action undesirable.

Martijn

Martijn van Exel +++ m...@rtijn.org
Laziness – Impatience – Hubris

http://schaaltreinen.nl
twitter: mvexel
skype: mvexel
flickr: rhodes

On May 16, 2010, at 9:47 PM, Lennard wrote:

> As some of you may know, last year the French have imported the CORINE 
> Land Cover 2006 (CLC 2006) dataset. This dataset aims to classify every 
> bit of surface of the participating countries. It is a project of the 
> European Environment Agency (EEA) in conjunction with national mapping 
> agencies. For Belgium, I believe this would be the NGI/IGN.
> 
> While they did get approval to import their CLC 2006 dataset, getting 
> approval from the NGI/IGN in Belgium would probably be problematic, and 
> actually getting the data from them even worse. Although, if we don't 
> ask, we'll never know for sure. (Anyone up for contacting them?)
> 
> However, the CLC 2000 dataset is fully available on the EEA website, and 
> has usage terms that seem to be very compatible with OSM.
> 
> "Unless otherwise indicated, re-use of content on the EEA website for 
> commercial or non-commercial purposes is permitted free of charge, 
> provided that the source is acknowledged."
> 
> On IRC, someone wanted to contact the EEA explicitly to obtain 
> permission (for Belgium, but why not ask this for the entire dataset?). 
> I don't see a problem with that, although for me the terms on the EEA 
> site are clear.
> 
> I have made an overlay which shows the CLC 2000 data on the OSM map:
> 
> http://mijndev.openstreetmap.nl/~ldp/clc2000/
> 
> This is so you can already enjoy what we may be able to import, and 
> maybe use it as a backdrop in Potlatch/JOSM or other editors to use. I 
> don't recommend actually tracing the polygons, as a direct import is 
> much easier.
> 
> The amount of changes between CLC 2000 and CLC 2006 is on the order of 
> 0.5% over the entire covered region. The overwhelming amount of polygons 
> would be unchanged. I think there's not much harm in working with CLC 
> 2000, even if it is 10+ years old.
> 
> I have received the scripts used for the French CLC 2006 import, and can 
> adapt and use those for an import of CLC 2000 for any area. I'm going to 
> test them and prepare an import file for Belgium, which can be imported 
> later on, if no valid objections are lodged.
> 
> 
> -- 
> Lennard
> 
> ___
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> Talk-be@openstreetmap.org
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] CORINE Land Cover 2000

[Renaud MICHEL]

Hello Lennard
Le dimanche 16 mai 2010 à 21:47, Lennard a écrit :
> As some of you may know, last year the French have imported the CORINE
> Land Cover 2006 (CLC 2006) dataset. This dataset aims to classify every
> bit of surface of the participating countries. It is a project of the
> European Environment Agency (EEA) in conjunction with national mapping
> agencies. For Belgium, I believe this would be the NGI/IGN.
> 
> While they did get approval to import their CLC 2006 dataset, getting
> approval from the NGI/IGN in Belgium would probably be problematic, and
> actually getting the data from them even worse. Although, if we don't
> ask, we'll never know for sure. (Anyone up for contacting them?)
> 
> However, the CLC 2000 dataset is fully available on the EEA website, and
> has usage terms that seem to be very compatible with OSM.
> 
> "Unless otherwise indicated, re-use of content on the EEA website for
> commercial or non-commercial purposes is permitted free of charge,
> provided that the source is acknowledged."
> 
> On IRC, someone wanted to contact the EEA explicitly to obtain
> permission (for Belgium, but why not ask this for the entire dataset?).
> I don't see a problem with that, although for me the terms on the EEA
> site are clear.

Well, there's no harm in asking, but as you say it seems compatible with the 
actual CC-By-SA (but I have no idea for ODBL).

> I have made an overlay which shows the CLC 2000 data on the OSM map:
> 
> http://mijndev.openstreetmap.nl/~ldp/clc2000/
> 
> This is so you can already enjoy what we may be able to import, and
> maybe use it as a backdrop in Potlatch/JOSM or other editors to use. I
> don't recommend actually tracing the polygons, as a direct import is
> much easier.
> 
> The amount of changes between CLC 2000 and CLC 2006 is on the order of
> 0.5% over the entire covered region. The overwhelming amount of polygons
> would be unchanged. I think there's not much harm in working with CLC
> 2000, even if it is 10+ years old.
> 
> I have received the scripts used for the French CLC 2006 import, and can
> adapt and use those for an import of CLC 2000 for any area. I'm going to
> test them and prepare an import file for Belgium, which can be imported
> later on, if no valid objections are lodged.

It seems like a great idea, how does the import work?
We have already some data imported in Belgium from the french import, will 
those regions need manual editing to integrate the two imports?
Should we keep the landuse where they already exists in OSM belgium, or is 
the CORINE data much more accurate and should be preferred?

I manual edit/import is required for some regions I can help (for the free 
time I have) to tidy up the data.

France looks great now with all the landuse areas, I hope we can make 
Belgium look as good :-)

-- 
Renaud Michel

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[OSM-talk-be] CORINE Land Cover 2000

[Lennard]

As some of you may know, last year the French have imported the CORINE 
Land Cover 2006 (CLC 2006) dataset. This dataset aims to classify every 
bit of surface of the participating countries. It is a project of the 
European Environment Agency (EEA) in conjunction with national mapping 
agencies. For Belgium, I believe this would be the NGI/IGN.

While they did get approval to import their CLC 2006 dataset, getting 
approval from the NGI/IGN in Belgium would probably be problematic, and 
actually getting the data from them even worse. Although, if we don't 
ask, we'll never know for sure. (Anyone up for contacting them?)

However, the CLC 2000 dataset is fully available on the EEA website, and 
has usage terms that seem to be very compatible with OSM.

"Unless otherwise indicated, re-use of content on the EEA website for 
commercial or non-commercial purposes is permitted free of charge, 
provided that the source is acknowledged."

On IRC, someone wanted to contact the EEA explicitly to obtain 
permission (for Belgium, but why not ask this for the entire dataset?). 
I don't see a problem with that, although for me the terms on the EEA 
site are clear.

I have made an overlay which shows the CLC 2000 data on the OSM map:

http://mijndev.openstreetmap.nl/~ldp/clc2000/

This is so you can already enjoy what we may be able to import, and 
maybe use it as a backdrop in Potlatch/JOSM or other editors to use. I 
don't recommend actually tracing the polygons, as a direct import is 
much easier.

The amount of changes between CLC 2000 and CLC 2006 is on the order of 
0.5% over the entire covered region. The overwhelming amount of polygons 
would be unchanged. I think there's not much harm in working with CLC 
2000, even if it is 10+ years old.

I have received the scripts used for the French CLC 2006 import, and can 
adapt and use those for an import of CLC 2000 for any area. I'm going to 
test them and prepare an import file for Belgium, which can be imported 
later on, if no valid objections are lodged.


-- 
Lennard

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