Re: [Talk-br] Road network improvements in Brazil

[Andrew Wiseman por (Talk-br)]

Hi, thanks for the feedback everyone.

Fernando, can you link the specific guidelines you are referring to? In general 
I don’t imagine we will be making many changes to road classifications. For 
example, in response to my last email to talk-br, Naoliv said he thought they 
were already fairly complete and consistent. I believe it will mostly be adding 
missing roads, fixing alignment and other similar issues.

And thank you Joao for the suggestion, we will take a look at that area.

Andrew


Andrew Wiseman |  Maps | andrew_wise...@apple.com 


> On Jul 11, 2019, at 1:05 PM, Joao Porto de Albuquerque  
> wrote:
> 
> Hi Andrew, OSM community
> 
> Thanks for the message and for asking on suggestions for places to improve 
> road network. We are currently running a research project with flood-prone 
> communities and schools to map local risk perceptions based on the basemap 
> from OSM in the cities of São Paulo and Rio Branco. In Rio Branco (North 
> region) in particular we realised there is quite a lot to do to improve the 
> road network: 
> 
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/326253#map=14/-9.9773/-67.8386 
>  
> 
> We did some mapping there and taught school children to map with ID, but the 
> data will certainly needs review. If you guys would do some mapping there we 
> would certainly appreciate, as our project can focus on adding local details 
> to the map with the school children .
> 
> Best wishes
> João
> --
> Professor João Porto de Albuquerque
> Director | Institute of Global Sustainable Development | University of 
> Warwick, UK
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Thu, 11 Jul 2019 at 17:41, Andrew Wiseman por (Talk-br) 
> mailto:talk-br@openstreetmap.org>> wrote:
> Hi OSM Brazil,
> 
> This is Andrew again from the Maps team at Apple, a few months ago I wrote 
> that we were planning to start a project improving the road network in 
> Brazil, things like adding missing roads, making sure roads connect properly, 
> fixing incorrect alignments with GPS traces, ensuring road classifications 
> are consistent, and other similar issues. Thank you for your feedback then, 
> we incorporated it into our project. 
> 
> We did some analysis and plan to start in the North and Northeast regions of 
> the country. I wanted to see if you had any suggestions for places that might 
> have errors or have missing roads, or other issues in that area. There is 
> more information about our project here: 
> https://github.com/osmlab/appledata/issues/126 
> 
> 
> Thank you,
> 
> Andrew 
> 
> Apple, Inc.
> 
> 
> Andrew Wiseman |  Maps | andrew_wise...@apple.com 
> 
> 
>> On Nov 9, 2018, at 11:37 AM, Andrew Wiseman > > wrote:
>> 
>> Hello OSM Brazil,
>> 
>> My name is Andrew Wiseman, I work for Apple on the Maps team. My team is 
>> interested in doing some work on the road network in Brazil on 
>> OpenStreetMap, things like adding missing roads, making sure roads connect 
>> properly, fixing incorrect alignments with GPS traces, ensuring road 
>> classifications are consistent, and other similar issues. 
>> 
>> Are there places you know of that need improvement or types of problems you 
>> see frequently? Also I saw these guidelines about road classifications, are 
>> they the most recent classifications used by the community, or are there any 
>> others we should be aware of? 
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Pt:How_to_map_a 
>> 
>> 
>> We have a Github page here about the project: 
>> https://github.com/osmlab/appledata/issues/126 
>> 
>> 
>> Please let me know if you have any suggestions or feedback.
>> 
>> Thank you,
>> Andrew
>> Apple, Inc.
>> 
>> 
>> Andrew Wiseman |  Maps | andrew_wise...@apple.com 
>> 
> ___
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> 
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Re: [Talk-br] Road network improvements in Brazil

[Joao Porto de Albuquerque]

Hi Andrew, OSM community

Thanks for the message and for asking on suggestions for places to improve
road network. We are currently running a research project with flood-prone
communities and schools to map local risk perceptions based on the basemap
from OSM in the cities of São Paulo and Rio Branco. In Rio Branco (North
region) in particular we realised there is quite a lot to do to improve the
road network:

https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/326253#map=14/-9.9773/-67.8386

We did some mapping there and taught school children to map with ID, but
the data will certainly needs review. If you guys would do some mapping
there we would certainly appreciate, as our project can focus on adding
local details to the map with the school children .

Best wishes
João
--
Professor João Porto de Albuquerque
Director | Institute of Global Sustainable Development | University of
Warwick, UK




On Thu, 11 Jul 2019 at 17:41, Andrew Wiseman por (Talk-br) <
talk-br@openstreetmap.org> wrote:

> Hi OSM Brazil,
>
> This is Andrew again from the Maps team at Apple, a few months ago I wrote
> that we were planning to start a project improving the road network in
> Brazil, things like adding missing roads, making sure roads connect
> properly, fixing incorrect alignments with GPS traces, ensuring road
> classifications are consistent, and other similar issues. Thank you for
> your feedback then, we incorporated it into our project.
>
> We did some analysis and plan to start in the North and Northeast regions
> of the country. I wanted to see if you had any suggestions for places
> that might have errors or have missing roads, or other issues in that area.
> There is more information about our project here:
> https://github.com/osmlab/appledata/issues/126
>
> Thank you,
>
> Andrew
>
> Apple, Inc.
>
>
> Andrew Wiseman |  Maps | andrew_wise...@apple.com
>
> On Nov 9, 2018, at 11:37 AM, Andrew Wiseman 
> wrote:
>
> Hello OSM Brazil,
>
> My name is Andrew Wiseman, I work for Apple on the Maps team. My team is
> interested in doing some work on the road network in Brazil on
> OpenStreetMap, things like adding missing roads, making sure roads connect
> properly, fixing incorrect alignments with GPS traces, ensuring road
> classifications are consistent, and other similar issues.
>
> Are there places you know of that need improvement or types of problems
> you see frequently? Also I saw these guidelines about road classifications,
> are they the most recent classifications used by the community, or are
> there any others we should be aware of?
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Pt:How_to_map_a
>
> We have a Github page here about the project:
> https://github.com/osmlab/appledata/issues/126
>
> Please let me know if you have any suggestions or feedback.
>
> Thank you,
> Andrew
> Apple, Inc.
>
>
> Andrew Wiseman |  Maps | andrew_wise...@apple.com
>
>
> ___
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>
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Re: [Talk-br] Road network improvements in Brazil

[Fernando Trebien]

Hi Andrew.

As usual, the only questions I have are about highway classification.
In GitHub this is not yet detailed, so I'm wondering if you're
planning to follow a topological approach, as proposed and accepted
for the southernmost state. We know that that flowchart from 2013 is
not quite satisfactory. On the other hand, we know that, without
discussion, local mappers may not accept the results. What worked
really well for the southernmost state was to present the results
before making any changes to the map, then discussion to reach
consensus.

Regards,

Fernando Trebien

On Thu, Jul 11, 2019 at 1:41 PM Andrew Wiseman por (Talk-br)
 wrote:
>
> Hi OSM Brazil,
>
> This is Andrew again from the Maps team at Apple, a few months ago I wrote 
> that we were planning to start a project improving the road network in 
> Brazil, things like adding missing roads, making sure roads connect properly, 
> fixing incorrect alignments with GPS traces, ensuring road classifications 
> are consistent, and other similar issues. Thank you for your feedback then, 
> we incorporated it into our project.
>
> We did some analysis and plan to start in the North and Northeast regions of 
> the country. I wanted to see if you had any suggestions for places that might 
> have errors or have missing roads, or other issues in that area. There is 
> more information about our project here: 
> https://github.com/osmlab/appledata/issues/126
>
> Thank you,
>
> Andrew
>
> Apple, Inc.
>
>
> Andrew Wiseman |  Maps | andrew_wise...@apple.com
>
> On Nov 9, 2018, at 11:37 AM, Andrew Wiseman  wrote:
>
> Hello OSM Brazil,
>
> My name is Andrew Wiseman, I work for Apple on the Maps team. My team is 
> interested in doing some work on the road network in Brazil on OpenStreetMap, 
> things like adding missing roads, making sure roads connect properly, fixing 
> incorrect alignments with GPS traces, ensuring road classifications are 
> consistent, and other similar issues.
>
> Are there places you know of that need improvement or types of problems you 
> see frequently? Also I saw these guidelines about road classifications, are 
> they the most recent classifications used by the community, or are there any 
> others we should be aware of? 
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Pt:How_to_map_a
>
> We have a Github page here about the project: 
> https://github.com/osmlab/appledata/issues/126
>
> Please let me know if you have any suggestions or feedback.
>
> Thank you,
> Andrew
> Apple, Inc.
>
>
> Andrew Wiseman |  Maps | andrew_wise...@apple.com
>
>
> ___
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> Talk-br@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-br



-- 
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Re: [Talk-br] Road network improvements in Brazil

[Andrew Wiseman por (Talk-br)]

Hi OSM Brazil,

This is Andrew again from the Maps team at Apple, a few months ago I wrote that 
we were planning to start a project improving the road network in Brazil, 
things like adding missing roads, making sure roads connect properly, fixing 
incorrect alignments with GPS traces, ensuring road classifications are 
consistent, and other similar issues. Thank you for your feedback then, we 
incorporated it into our project. 

We did some analysis and plan to start in the North and Northeast regions of 
the country. I wanted to see if you had any suggestions for places that might 
have errors or have missing roads, or other issues in that area. There is more 
information about our project here: 
https://github.com/osmlab/appledata/issues/126 


Thank you,

Andrew 

Apple, Inc.


Andrew Wiseman |  Maps | andrew_wise...@apple.com 


> On Nov 9, 2018, at 11:37 AM, Andrew Wiseman  wrote:
> 
> Hello OSM Brazil,
> 
> My name is Andrew Wiseman, I work for Apple on the Maps team. My team is 
> interested in doing some work on the road network in Brazil on OpenStreetMap, 
> things like adding missing roads, making sure roads connect properly, fixing 
> incorrect alignments with GPS traces, ensuring road classifications are 
> consistent, and other similar issues. 
> 
> Are there places you know of that need improvement or types of problems you 
> see frequently? Also I saw these guidelines about road classifications, are 
> they the most recent classifications used by the community, or are there any 
> others we should be aware of? 
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Pt:How_to_map_a 
> 
> 
> We have a Github page here about the project: 
> https://github.com/osmlab/appledata/issues/126 
> 
> 
> Please let me know if you have any suggestions or feedback.
> 
> Thank you,
> Andrew
> Apple, Inc.
> 
> 
> Andrew Wiseman |  Maps | andrew_wise...@apple.com 
> 
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Re: [Talk-br] Road network improvements in Brazil

[Sérgio V .]

Hi,
If you want to find unmapped roads, you might look at this map, made with data 
from density of nodes and demographic density.

PNG image map:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/d8zld6cgwm6i5yg/JOSM-Backgr-DensNosOSMporHAB-R01.zip?dl=0

KML map of less mapped districts:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ms70wy6iwaaexkq/DNH-zero-BR.zip?dl=0

Wiki (need Google translation from portuguese):
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Demografia_do_Brasil_como_auxiliar_no_OSM

This map of densities may be a bit outdated since 2017. But everytime I use 
this map I still found unmapped roads to map

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Sérgio - http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/smaprs

De: Andrew Wiseman 
Enviado: sexta-feira, 9 de novembro de 2018 14:37:39
Para: talk-br@openstreetmap.org
Assunto: [Talk-br] Road network improvements in Brazil

Hello OSM Brazil,

My name is Andrew Wiseman, I work for Apple on the Maps team. My team is 
interested in doing some work on the road network in Brazil on OpenStreetMap, 
things like adding missing roads, making sure roads connect properly, fixing 
incorrect alignments with GPS traces, ensuring road classifications are 
consistent, and other similar issues.

Are there places you know of that need improvement or types of problems you see 
frequently? Also I saw these guidelines about road classifications, are they 
the most recent classifications used by the community, or are there any others 
we should be aware of? https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Pt:How_to_map_a

We have a Github page here about the project: 
https://github.com/osmlab/appledata/issues/126

Please let me know if you have any suggestions or feedback.

Thank you,
Andrew
Apple, Inc.


Andrew Wiseman |  Maps | 
andrew_wise...@apple.com<mailto:andrew_wise...@apple.com>
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Re: [Talk-br] Road network improvements in Brazil

[santamariense]

I agree with the modifications so that the road classification could
keep a coerency, crossing a urban area without changing its category.

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Re: [Talk-br] Road network improvements in Brazil

[Fernando Trebien]

I forgot to mention, there was another interesting forum thread
regarding the classification of trunks in the entire country. While
most mappers agreed we need to raise at least some primaries to the
trunk level, there hasn't been consensus on the exact criteria that
should be used. [1][2]

Also, there is an undocumented (but openly discussed [3]) agreement
that the definition of motorway should be slightly relaxed, since many
highways fulfill the international criteria without fully implementing
access control.

[1] https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?id=59392
[2] https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?id=52982
[3] https://forum.osm.org/viewtopic.php?pid=700528#p700528
On Fri, Nov 9, 2018 at 2:57 PM Fernando Trebien
 wrote:
>
> Hi Andrew,
>
> Classification is a hotly debated topic that surely deserves more
> attention, with many controversial proposals as written in the
> article. The system proposed in the article dates back to 2013 and has
> been heavily criticised, producing fragmentary networks in regions
> with many unpaved roads (most places in Brazil except the most
> developed regions along the coast). Recently there has been a very
> interesting forum thread focused on rural highway classification in
> the southermost state of Rio Grande do Sul [1], where mappers have
> agreed to diverge from the system proposed in 2013 (what's on the wiki
> right now).
>
> The wiki does not talk about urban street classification. The
> Brazilian community has agreed to try to follow municipal plans as
> closely as possible. So far, only the street classification in the
> region of Porto Alegre is documented in detail [2]. We have gathered
> the official street classification of many cities [3], but most have
> not been reviewed yet, a few have been reviewed but not documented. In
> Santa Maria [4], some classification has been done but the mappers
> have stated that they did not base their work on the community's
> agreement, instead following an approach more similar to that of 2013.
>
> [1] https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?id=62430
> [2] 
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Pt:Porto_Alegre,_Rio_Grande_do_Sul/Sistema_Vi%C3%A1rio
> [3] 
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Category:Cidades_com_hierarquia_vi%C3%A1ria_oficial
> [4] 
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Santa_Maria,_Rio_Grande_do_Sul/Sistema_Vi%C3%A1rio
> On Fri, Nov 9, 2018 at 2:38 PM Andrew Wiseman  
> wrote:
> >
> > Hello OSM Brazil,
> >
> > My name is Andrew Wiseman, I work for Apple on the Maps team. My team is 
> > interested in doing some work on the road network in Brazil on 
> > OpenStreetMap, things like adding missing roads, making sure roads connect 
> > properly, fixing incorrect alignments with GPS traces, ensuring road 
> > classifications are consistent, and other similar issues.
> >
> > Are there places you know of that need improvement or types of problems you 
> > see frequently? Also I saw these guidelines about road classifications, are 
> > they the most recent classifications used by the community, or are there 
> > any others we should be aware of? 
> > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Pt:How_to_map_a
> >
> > We have a Github page here about the project: 
> > https://github.com/osmlab/appledata/issues/126
> >
> > Please let me know if you have any suggestions or feedback.
> >
> > Thank you,
> > Andrew
> > Apple, Inc.
> >
> >
> > Andrew Wiseman |  Maps | andrew_wise...@apple.com
> > ___
> > Talk-br mailing list
> > Talk-br@openstreetmap.org
> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-br
>
>
>
> --
> Fernando Trebien



-- 
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Re: [Talk-br] Road network improvements in Brazil

[Paulo Carvalho]

In addition to islands, "singularities" are another source of problems in
routing.  Singularities are places that, despite being connected, are not
possible to leave (black hole) or to reach (white hole).  Flow simulations
should also be conducted on road meshes as to quickly detect inconsistent
direction in major roads.

Em sex, 9 de nov de 2018 às 15:24, Nelson A. de Oliveira 
escreveu:

> Hi, Andrew.
>
> On Fri, Nov 9, 2018 at 2:38 PM Andrew Wiseman 
> wrote:
> > Are there places you know of that need improvement or types of problems
> you see frequently? Also I saw these guidelines about road classifications,
> are they the most recent classifications used by the community, or are
> there any others we should be aware of?
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Pt:How_to_map_a
>
> I believe that most of the time you will not have to worry about
> reclassifying entire highways, but only small segments to maintain the
> continuity of the roads.
> Here https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=15/-10.8073/-37.1696 we have
> two examples:
>
> - a primary segment https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/276900076 which
> is overclassified (it should be secondary)
> - a tertiary segment https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/163099566 which
> is underclassified (should also be secondary)
>
> The Unmapped Places is also nice to locate possible places where we
> are missing highways:
> https://resultmaps.neis-one.org/unmapped#5/-13.966/-49.482
>
> The Routing view from OSM Inspector should also be another source for
> possible problems/improvements (specially to detect islands).
>
> Best regards,
> Nelson
>
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Re: [Talk-br] Road network improvements in Brazil

[Nelson A. de Oliveira]

Hi, Andrew.

On Fri, Nov 9, 2018 at 2:38 PM Andrew Wiseman  wrote:
> Are there places you know of that need improvement or types of problems you 
> see frequently? Also I saw these guidelines about road classifications, are 
> they the most recent classifications used by the community, or are there any 
> others we should be aware of? 
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Pt:How_to_map_a

I believe that most of the time you will not have to worry about
reclassifying entire highways, but only small segments to maintain the
continuity of the roads.
Here https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=15/-10.8073/-37.1696 we have
two examples:

- a primary segment https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/276900076 which
is overclassified (it should be secondary)
- a tertiary segment https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/163099566 which
is underclassified (should also be secondary)

The Unmapped Places is also nice to locate possible places where we
are missing highways:
https://resultmaps.neis-one.org/unmapped#5/-13.966/-49.482

The Routing view from OSM Inspector should also be another source for
possible problems/improvements (specially to detect islands).

Best regards,
Nelson

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Re: [Talk-br] Road network improvements in Brazil

[Fernando Trebien]

On Fri, 9 Nov 2018, 14:57 Fernando Trebien  In
> Santa Maria [4], some classification has been done but the mappers
> have stated that they did not base their work on the community's
> agreement, instead following an approach more similar to that of 2013.
>

Actually, the documentation seems a bit contradictory. It states that they
classified according to the offifial types of streets, but also state they
did not use the official data as basis for their work. So I'm not sure
what's the actual status there.

On Fri, Nov 9, 2018 at 2:38 PM Andrew Wiseman 
> wrote:
> >
> > Hello OSM Brazil,
> >
> > My name is Andrew Wiseman, I work for Apple on the Maps team. My team is
> interested in doing some work on the road network in Brazil on
> OpenStreetMap, things like adding missing roads, making sure roads connect
> properly, fixing incorrect alignments with GPS traces, ensuring road
> classifications are consistent, and other similar issues.
> >
> > Are there places you know of that need improvement or types of problems
> you see frequently? Also I saw these guidelines about road classifications,
> are they the most recent classifications used by the community, or are
> there any others we should be aware of?
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Pt:How_to_map_a
> >
> > We have a Github page here about the project:
> https://github.com/osmlab/appledata/issues/126
> >
> > Please let me know if you have any suggestions or feedback.
> >
> > Thank you,
> > Andrew
> > Apple, Inc.
> >
> >
> > Andrew Wiseman |  Maps | andrew_wise...@apple.com
> > ___
> > Talk-br mailing list
> > Talk-br@openstreetmap.org
> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-br
>
>
>
> --
> Fernando Trebien
>
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Re: [Talk-br] Road network improvements in Brazil

[Fernando Trebien]

Hi Andrew,

Classification is a hotly debated topic that surely deserves more
attention, with many controversial proposals as written in the
article. The system proposed in the article dates back to 2013 and has
been heavily criticised, producing fragmentary networks in regions
with many unpaved roads (most places in Brazil except the most
developed regions along the coast). Recently there has been a very
interesting forum thread focused on rural highway classification in
the southermost state of Rio Grande do Sul [1], where mappers have
agreed to diverge from the system proposed in 2013 (what's on the wiki
right now).

The wiki does not talk about urban street classification. The
Brazilian community has agreed to try to follow municipal plans as
closely as possible. So far, only the street classification in the
region of Porto Alegre is documented in detail [2]. We have gathered
the official street classification of many cities [3], but most have
not been reviewed yet, a few have been reviewed but not documented. In
Santa Maria [4], some classification has been done but the mappers
have stated that they did not base their work on the community's
agreement, instead following an approach more similar to that of 2013.

[1] https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?id=62430
[2] 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Pt:Porto_Alegre,_Rio_Grande_do_Sul/Sistema_Vi%C3%A1rio
[3] 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Category:Cidades_com_hierarquia_vi%C3%A1ria_oficial
[4] 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Santa_Maria,_Rio_Grande_do_Sul/Sistema_Vi%C3%A1rio
On Fri, Nov 9, 2018 at 2:38 PM Andrew Wiseman  wrote:
>
> Hello OSM Brazil,
>
> My name is Andrew Wiseman, I work for Apple on the Maps team. My team is 
> interested in doing some work on the road network in Brazil on OpenStreetMap, 
> things like adding missing roads, making sure roads connect properly, fixing 
> incorrect alignments with GPS traces, ensuring road classifications are 
> consistent, and other similar issues.
>
> Are there places you know of that need improvement or types of problems you 
> see frequently? Also I saw these guidelines about road classifications, are 
> they the most recent classifications used by the community, or are there any 
> others we should be aware of? 
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Pt:How_to_map_a
>
> We have a Github page here about the project: 
> https://github.com/osmlab/appledata/issues/126
>
> Please let me know if you have any suggestions or feedback.
>
> Thank you,
> Andrew
> Apple, Inc.
>
>
> Andrew Wiseman |  Maps | andrew_wise...@apple.com
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[Talk-br] Road network improvements in Brazil

[Andrew Wiseman]

Hello OSM Brazil,

My name is Andrew Wiseman, I work for Apple on the Maps team. My team is 
interested in doing some work on the road network in Brazil on OpenStreetMap, 
things like adding missing roads, making sure roads connect properly, fixing 
incorrect alignments with GPS traces, ensuring road classifications are 
consistent, and other similar issues. 

Are there places you know of that need improvement or types of problems you see 
frequently? Also I saw these guidelines about road classifications, are they 
the most recent classifications used by the community, or are there any others 
we should be aware of? https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Pt:How_to_map_a

We have a Github page here about the project: 
https://github.com/osmlab/appledata/issues/126

Please let me know if you have any suggestions or feedback.

Thank you,
Andrew
Apple, Inc.


Andrew Wiseman |  Maps | andrew_wise...@apple.com 
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