Re: [Talk-ca] Google Streetview
On Tue, Mar 9, 2010 at 1:10 PM, Robert Shand b...@shand.org.uk wrote: I would tend to agree with this, as I have spotted street view imagery having been doctored. I used to live on a one-way street, and the imagery in Street View clearly showed the SV car travelling in the wrong direction on the street. I pointed this out to Google; they Photoshopped the car out of the imagery for two blocks. Also don't forget that Google Street View data is significantly out of date, because most of it was captured in Summer 2009. Copying a large quantity of outdated data from Google Street View would be a dead giveaway if the street has changed since the photo was taken (e.g. because of new businesses replacing old businesses, etc.) Andrewpmk ___ Talk-ca mailing list Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
Re: [Talk-ca] Google Streetview
And while were extending the discussion... http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Image Using an image=* tag would help as when your out there photo-mapping you can share photos with this tag. :-) The page still needs to be fixed, as it might turn out that it only applies to 'points of interest' (so on an actual node or area), however, i see no reason why all photos cant be 'geotagged' this way. Cheers, Sam On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 1:12 AM, Andrew MacKinnon andrew...@gmail.comwrote: On Tue, Mar 9, 2010 at 1:10 PM, Robert Shand b...@shand.org.uk wrote: I would tend to agree with this, as I have spotted street view imagery having been doctored. I used to live on a one-way street, and the imagery in Street View clearly showed the SV car travelling in the wrong direction on the street. I pointed this out to Google; they Photoshopped the car out of the imagery for two blocks. Also don't forget that Google Street View data is significantly out of date, because most of it was captured in Summer 2009. Copying a large quantity of outdated data from Google Street View would be a dead giveaway if the street has changed since the photo was taken (e.g. because of new businesses replacing old businesses, etc.) Andrewpmk ___ Talk-ca mailing list Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca ___ Talk-ca mailing list Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
[Talk-ca] Highways in Yukon
Just wanted to gauge opinion before I change anything: I'm currently working on the Dempster highway with a tracklog I created in the summer, hoping to extend it further north into NWT. The road connecting to the Dempster in the south is the Klondike Highway. However, this paved 'highway' is tagged as a secondary road, whilst the unpaved Dempster is tagged as a primary road. I think the Klondike Highway, and other similar roads in this part of Canada, should be tagged as primary roads. What do others think? Thanks Tim ___ Talk-ca mailing list Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
Re: [Talk-ca] Highways in Yukon
On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 12:43 PM, Tim Francois sk1pp...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: Just wanted to gauge opinion before I change anything: I'm currently working on the Dempster highway with a tracklog I created in the summer, hoping to extend it further north into NWT. The road connecting to the Dempster in the south is the Klondike Highway. However, this paved 'highway' is tagged as a secondary road, whilst the unpaved Dempster is tagged as a primary road. I think the Klondike Highway, and other similar roads in this part of Canada, should be tagged as primary roads. What do others think? You might be our local expert, as you've actually driven the roads. Do please include explicit tags where these roads and your chosen designation is a departure from the defaults. surface=unpaved (or something more specific like surface=gravel) where appropriate. lanes= number of travel lanes ___ Talk-ca mailing list Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
Re: [Talk-ca] Streets with frontage roads...
On 8 March 2010 12:18, James Ewen ve6...@gmail.com wrote: What is the common ground on tagging these things? I would guess that all these roads would get named Grandin Road, as the houses are all addressed as Grandin Road. I was thinking that the 4 lane section get bumped to tertiary as it is a collector road, and as such would be more important than just a plain residential road. The side roads could then stay as residential, or perhaps they would be better tagged at a lower level? I would go for that. On UK occurrences of this I would possibly tag them as service rather than residential, but it depends how wide/used the road is (try to think if you saw it on it's own). Later somebody (hopefully) will add the house numbers (using http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/House_numbers/Karlsruhe_Schema) and the houses will either be in a relation with the side/frontage road they are on, or they will be tagged with addr:street=Grandin Road and an algorithm would pick the closest Grandin Road to the house number it wants. Off-topic: The OSM map now has a Shortlink in the bottom right with Permalink and you get something like http://osm.org/go/WPoaJWjUy- Which I prefer over other link-shorteners in a mailing list because I can see it is going to OSM rather than needing to trust you won't take be to some virus-laden website. :o) -- Gregory o...@livingwithdragons.com http://www.livingwithdragons.com ___ Talk-ca mailing list Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
Re: [Talk-ca] Highways in Yukon
On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 10:43 AM, Tim Francois sk1pp...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: I'm currently working on the Dempster highway with a tracklog I created in the summer, hoping to extend it further north into NWT. The road connecting to the Dempster in the south is the Klondike Highway. However, this paved 'highway' is tagged as a secondary road, whilst the unpaved Dempster is tagged as a primary road. I think the Klondike Highway, and other similar roads in this part of Canada, should be tagged as primary roads. What do others think? This is a problem with the way that highways are tagged in my opinion. The OSM features page sometimes uses physical attributes to describe the roadways. The roadway needs to be tagged for the usage it is designed for. The Dempster Highway is a primary highway linking major centers. (Okay, relatively major centers, relative to barren land...) In OSM terms though, it could probably even be tagged as a trunk as it is a very important road in the area. One has to think about how the final map is going to be displayed. Most of the rendering engines use the classification of the road to determine at what level to display the way. If you classify the Dempster Highway as a track (to fit the description gravel roads in the forest), it will only show up once you have zoomed in so close, that you can't make any use of the map information. I have this type of problem with my GPS. I travel the highway to Fort McMurray quite often. The TeleAtlas database has the primary highway classified as a major road. If I zoom out far enough to see where I am heading, the map screen goes blank. Pretty hard to decide which roads to take when there are none depicted. Once I zoom in close enough to see the roads, I can no longer see my destination, so it is difficult to determine which road I should take to get to my desired destination. Our northern territories don't have a lot of roads, and have a lot of territory. You need to be zoomed well out to be able to see where you are and where you want to be in most cases. The roads between those locations are of major importance if you are attempting to drive between the locales, and as such should be tagged as such. Even if the classification description for the UK suggests that that road classification should be paved with striped lines, and a hard shoulder, in the Yukon, that same classification of road might only be a gravel surface. If it were up to me, classification would denote the importance of the road in the road network, and surface, number of lanes, and other tags would describe the physical attributes of the roadway. My two bits, and then some! James VE6SRV ___ Talk-ca mailing list Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
Re: [Talk-ca] Fwd: [gvcc-members] Google Goes Bike with Directions
The routing on bikemap.net is just showing you routes that people have added. http://www.cyclestreets.net/ is only available for the UK, but actually does routing based on OSM data. It's amazing as it does any point to any point and gives you 3 routes (fastest/direct, scenic, and in between) and the speed you want to go. It even accounts for being slowed down weaving your bike around (where barriers are added in OSM) or various road crossings/junctions. Try it out anywhere in the UK (note longer distances will take longer to calculate) They want a load of funding to develop further features and their servers have to do a lot of work to keep it running. I don't know how much it would take, but they might be interested if someone could help or provide serious (amount of) funding to expand it to the US/Canada, or at least parts. On 10 March 2010 05:23, Sam Vekemans acrosscanadatra...@gmail.com wrote: When you use bikemap.net you can use the cyclemap layer it will route based on that. http://www.bikemap.net/ Also, for Garmin MapSource with using - OSM Worldwide routable, it does a great job routing cyclists :) http://garmin.na1400.info/routable.php Cheers, Sam On Wed, Mar 10, 2010 at 4:44 AM, john whelan jwhelan0...@gmail.comwrote: Yes but do we have software that can work out a route for cyclists or pedestrians or bus and pedestrians yet? Cheerio John On 10 March 2010 03:30, Sam Vekemans acrosscanadatra...@gmail.comwrote: G... But you cant print Google Maps in Books, nor can you create custom Garmin Maps Iphone apps with the data ... or print mugs. Or create custom renderings or extract data from it. Nor can you edit the map add more details. Nor can you create customs tourist maps (ie. Wiki-Travel) maposmatic ...walking-papers or do anything else creative with the data. Yup, sites like www.bikemap.net www.wikiloc.com www.gpsies.com all show the OpenCycleMap layer people keep donating their GPS tracks :-) So yup, we'll always have the edge :0) Cheers, Sam P.S. no i havent contacted the Bike League -- Forwarded message -- From: ron richi...@telus.net Date: Tue, Mar 9, 2010 at 9:45 PM Subject: [gvcc-members] Google Goes Bike with Directions To: v...@yahoogroups.com, trans-act...@googlegroups.com, gvcc-memb...@yahoogroups.com, disc...@lists.velolove.bc.ca *Google Announces Google Biking Directions at the League of American Bicyclists' 2010 National Bike Summit * *Washington, D.C. **-** March 10, 2010 **-* The League of American Bicyclists is proud to be the forum for Google to announce what all bike riders have been waiting for - Grab Your Bike and Go with Google Maps. Google is announcing at the Opening Plenary Session at the National Bike Summit http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?et=1103167038569s=6360e=001pYbKTip6NGXjLW-9rUimGNoYI_DSUEwU5ZCUxLtwNQTCAIjnOF_OCCe7N4HDMNuzlirLqjCEihDKrpoL3okpege7lE0CbppeRD2mHOmgQHbGuyhR-dfl_t8606w1mp_vMTjG5krWnAWe2B7ahhy2JRLty9SBVpkgthat they are adding biking directions in the U.S. to Google Maps.This new tool will open people's eyes to the possibility and practicality of hopping on a bike and riding, said Andy Clarke, President of the League of American Bicyclists. We know people want to ride more, and we know it's good for people and communities when they do ride more - this makes it possible. It is a game-changer, especially for those short trips that are the most polluting, Users can now choose biking when deciding how to get to their destination, starting today, March 10, 2010. If you're one of the 57 million Americans who ride a bike, mapping your daily commute, and planning recreational or trail rides just became easier. According to Google this has been the most requested addition to Google Maps, and the League is delighted that they have chosen the National Bike Summit to unveil this new feature. Google's announcement further proves the importance of the Summit and the bicycle movement in helping our nation become a more Bicycle Friendly Americahttp://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?et=1103167038569s=6360e=001pYbKTip6NGXuIZpLWiG3X8Le3SCrWyC4rnhS-odeLkeUvsRiygYpaBlvUtvO-tg0FwNmPojHxV6m5F4lEvDsVMIBzU7d1uvXIdUlGDrQ-_HCgxf2GvDBp3qN6xzhRc6bvJ0S76QHCAH1MRvtr1C0r9O_LeTaXNOPBnk0L7X4Z2g=. The Google biking directions will make it that much easier for bicyclists to get to work, school or play. This new feature includes: step-by-step bicycling directions; bike trails outlined directly on the map; and a new Bicycling layer that indicates bike trails, bike lanes, and bike-friendly roads. The directions feature provides step-by-step, bike-specific routing suggestions - similar to the directions provided by our driving, walking, or public transit modes. Simply enter a start point and destination and select Bicycling from the drop-down menu. You will receive a route that is optimized for cycling, taking advantage of bike trails, bike lanes, and bike-friendly streets and avoiding hilly
Re: [Talk-ca] Highways in Yukon
On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 8:30 PM, James Ewen ve6...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 10:43 AM, Tim Francois sk1pp...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: I'm currently working on the Dempster highway with a tracklog I created in the summer, hoping to extend it further north into NWT. The road connecting to the Dempster in the south is the Klondike Highway. However, this paved 'highway' is tagged as a secondary road, whilst the unpaved Dempster is tagged as a primary road. I think the Klondike Highway, and other similar roads in this part of Canada, should be tagged as primary roads. What do others think? This is a problem with the way that highways are tagged in my opinion. Of course. The OSM features page sometimes uses physical attributes to describe the roadways. Sure. Some tags are better than others when measured on the scales of observability, verifiability, importance and permanence. The roadway needs to be tagged for the usage it is designed for. Agreed. This case certainly suggests promoting the road a level or two. Sparsity of any roads, official designation, linking distant communities each suggest promotion. Promoting a highway is risky when unaware of the surrounding context, but when there is nothing else for dozens or hundreds of km Go ahead. One has to think about how the final map is going to be displayed. Now that is a little close to tagging for the renderer. If it were up to me, classification would denote the importance of the road in the road network, and surface, number of lanes, and other tags would describe the physical attributes of the roadway. That's the way it is. There was discussion today on #osm about primary road in Scotland; gravel, one shared land for both directions, periodic pullouts for passing. My two bits, and then some! Fair enough. ___ Talk-ca mailing list Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
[Talk-ca] Fwd: Fwd: [gvcc-members] Google Goes Bike with Directions
oops. To the lists, too. -- Forwarded message -- On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 8:45 PM, Gregory nomoregra...@googlemail.com wrote: The routing on bikemap.net is just showing you routes that people have added. http://www.cyclestreets.net/ is only available for the UK, but actually does routing based on OSM data. It's amazing as it does any point to any point and gives you 3 routes (fastest/direct, scenic, and in between) and the speed you want to go. It even accounts for being slowed down weaving your bike around (where barriers are added in OSM) or various road crossings/junctions. Try it out anywhere in the UK (note longer distances will take longer to calculate) http://www.ridethecity.com/ does this in New York City ___ Talk-ca mailing list Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
Re: [Talk-ca] Fwd: [gvcc-members] Google Goes Bike with Directions
The UK has publicly funded web sites that do routing. Could some one work on fed Canada or some such body working on the green angle? Thanks John On 11 March 2010 20:45, Gregory nomoregra...@googlemail.com wrote: The routing on bikemap.net is just showing you routes that people have added. http://www.cyclestreets.net/ is only available for the UK, but actually does routing based on OSM data. It's amazing as it does any point to any point and gives you 3 routes (fastest/direct, scenic, and in between) and the speed you want to go. It even accounts for being slowed down weaving your bike around (where barriers are added in OSM) or various road crossings/junctions. Try it out anywhere in the UK (note longer distances will take longer to calculate) They want a load of funding to develop further features and their servers have to do a lot of work to keep it running. I don't know how much it would take, but they might be interested if someone could help or provide serious (amount of) funding to expand it to the US/Canada, or at least parts. On 10 March 2010 05:23, Sam Vekemans acrosscanadatra...@gmail.com wrote: When you use bikemap.net you can use the cyclemap layer it will route based on that. http://www.bikemap.net/ Also, for Garmin MapSource with using - OSM Worldwide routable, it does a great job routing cyclists :) http://garmin.na1400.info/routable.php Cheers, Sam On Wed, Mar 10, 2010 at 4:44 AM, john whelan jwhelan0...@gmail.comwrote: Yes but do we have software that can work out a route for cyclists or pedestrians or bus and pedestrians yet? Cheerio John On 10 March 2010 03:30, Sam Vekemans acrosscanadatra...@gmail.comwrote: G... But you cant print Google Maps in Books, nor can you create custom Garmin Maps Iphone apps with the data ... or print mugs. Or create custom renderings or extract data from it. Nor can you edit the map add more details. Nor can you create customs tourist maps (ie. Wiki-Travel) maposmatic ...walking-papers or do anything else creative with the data. Yup, sites like www.bikemap.net www.wikiloc.com www.gpsies.com all show the OpenCycleMap layer people keep donating their GPS tracks :-) So yup, we'll always have the edge :0) Cheers, Sam P.S. no i havent contacted the Bike League -- Forwarded message -- From: ron richi...@telus.net Date: Tue, Mar 9, 2010 at 9:45 PM Subject: [gvcc-members] Google Goes Bike with Directions To: v...@yahoogroups.com, trans-act...@googlegroups.com, gvcc-memb...@yahoogroups.com, disc...@lists.velolove.bc.ca *Google Announces Google Biking Directions at the League of American Bicyclists' 2010 National Bike Summit * *Washington, D.C. **-** March 10, 2010 **-* The League of American Bicyclists is proud to be the forum for Google to announce what all bike riders have been waiting for - Grab Your Bike and Go with Google Maps. Google is announcing at the Opening Plenary Session at the National Bike Summit http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?et=1103167038569s=6360e=001pYbKTip6NGXjLW-9rUimGNoYI_DSUEwU5ZCUxLtwNQTCAIjnOF_OCCe7N4HDMNuzlirLqjCEihDKrpoL3okpege7lE0CbppeRD2mHOmgQHbGuyhR-dfl_t8606w1mp_vMTjG5krWnAWe2B7ahhy2JRLty9SBVpkgthat they are adding biking directions in the U.S. to Google Maps.This new tool will open people's eyes to the possibility and practicality of hopping on a bike and riding, said Andy Clarke, President of the League of American Bicyclists. We know people want to ride more, and we know it's good for people and communities when they do ride more - this makes it possible. It is a game-changer, especially for those short trips that are the most polluting, Users can now choose biking when deciding how to get to their destination, starting today, March 10, 2010. If you're one of the 57 million Americans who ride a bike, mapping your daily commute, and planning recreational or trail rides just became easier. According to Google this has been the most requested addition to Google Maps, and the League is delighted that they have chosen the National Bike Summit to unveil this new feature. Google's announcement further proves the importance of the Summit and the bicycle movement in helping our nation become a more Bicycle Friendly Americahttp://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?et=1103167038569s=6360e=001pYbKTip6NGXuIZpLWiG3X8Le3SCrWyC4rnhS-odeLkeUvsRiygYpaBlvUtvO-tg0FwNmPojHxV6m5F4lEvDsVMIBzU7d1uvXIdUlGDrQ-_HCgxf2GvDBp3qN6xzhRc6bvJ0S76QHCAH1MRvtr1C0r9O_LeTaXNOPBnk0L7X4Z2g=. The Google biking directions will make it that much easier for bicyclists to get to work, school or play. This new feature includes: step-by-step bicycling directions; bike trails outlined directly on the map; and a new Bicycling layer that indicates bike trails, bike lanes, and bike-friendly roads. The directions feature provides step-by-step, bike-specific routing suggestions - similar to the directions provided by our driving, walking, or public transit
Re: [Talk-ca] Highways in Yukon
On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 7:18 PM, Richard Weait rich...@weait.com wrote: One has to think about how the final map is going to be displayed. Now that is a little close to tagging for the renderer. Yes, but I've been chastised about that statement before... we are not tagging incorrectly to simply work around the renderer rules, but rather tagging as to road classification importance, which the renderer simply renders differently. If the data stored in the OSM database is not useful to the user, then it may as well not be included. Back to my GPS... the major roads in the TeleAtlas database cause routing problems. The routing routine will take me on a 350 km detour just to stay on highways, rather than a 200 km direct route on what it considers a major road. These major roads are indistinguishable from the highways as far as physical features are concerned. Speed limits are also identical. I'd prefer to have these major roads promoted to the same classification as the highways (in fact they are highways of the same classification as the others)... as a side effect, the renderer in the GPS would end up showing these roads that were previously not visible. Just because the renderer changes the display doesn't mean that I am specifically trying to misrepresent the road for the renderer. The renderers take the tags we use into account when deciding on how to display a way, so it is only appropriate that we also take into account how the renderer will display the tags we are deciding to use. It would be inappropriate to tag a stream as a coastline just to get it to show up on a wide area map... it is however appropriate in my opinion to tag an important major road (read only road) across a large expanse of territory at an appropriate classification level, despite what the rendering engines will do with it. The database and renderers are pretty much married to each other. Without the database, the renderers are useless. Without the renderers, it's pretty hard to visualize the data. James VE6SRV ___ Talk-ca mailing list Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
